highaltitude.log.20100829

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[00:04] <Darkside> juxta: got your handheld on?
[00:05] <VK5FMLB> high darkside
[00:06] <Darkside> VK5FMLB: hi :P
[00:06] <VK5FMLB> are you in Aus
[00:06] <Darkside> sorry, i like playing with the ACMA database
[00:06] <Darkside> and yes, i'm in adelaide
[00:06] <VK5FMLB> no worries
[00:06] <VK5FMLB> just checking out the horus stuff
[00:06] <Darkside> i'll be getting a PO box when i go for my license..
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[00:06] <VK5FMLB> I worked through the parrot repeater yesterday
[00:06] <Darkside> so people can't find my address on the ACMA db
[00:06] <Darkside> nice
[00:07] <VK5FMLB> you involved in the project
[00:07] <Randomskk> I don't think you can put a PO box as an operating address
[00:07] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[00:08] <Darkside> im pretty sure you can
[00:09] <Darkside> well, as the address that shows up on the acma website anyway
[00:09] <Darkside> which is what i care about
[00:09] <Randomskk> ah, yea. in the UK we can go unlisted on the listing
[00:09] <VK5FMLB> i believe you can have a P.O box listed on the ACMA site
[00:20] <Darkside> yeah
[00:20] <Darkside> which is what i want
[00:20] <Darkside> i don't like the idea of some random hearing my callsign and then looking up my address
[00:22] <Darkside> i talk on UHF CB a bit, and a few of the 'disagreeable' people on there know my voice..
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[00:40] <W0OTM> picts from iHAB-1 http://www.w0otm.com/iHAB/Launch-Photos.html
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[00:42] <natrium42> W0OTM, how high did it go?
[00:43] <natrium42> great pics!
[00:43] <W0OTM> 84,400ft
[00:47] <SpeedEvil1> Congratulations!
[00:47] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[00:48] <W0OTM> thanks
[00:50] <DanielRichman> W0OTM: what I'd do is host the images on flikr to take the load off your own site
[00:50] <SpeedEvil> Flickr is annoying.
[00:50] <DanielRichman> picasa, github, whatever
[00:51] <DanielRichman> anywhere but your own server
[00:51] <DanielRichman> they has bigger internets.
[00:51] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[00:51] <SpeedEvil> Flickr has a stupid 200 pic limit
[00:51] <SpeedEvil> Unless you pay them.
[00:51] <DanielRichman> oh, right
[00:51] <DanielRichman> yeah and you don't get original resolution unless you pay
[00:51] <SpeedEvil> And you can't - by design - order your pics other rthan chronologically
[00:51] <DanielRichman> it would work though for w0otm's page where he has smaller pics
[00:52] <SpeedEvil> However.
[00:52] <SpeedEvil> 640*480 in practice is fine for HAB pics.
[00:52] <SpeedEvil> At least at high altitude
[00:52] <SpeedEvil> and then you can click to zoom.
[00:52] <DanielRichman> indeed
[00:52] <DanielRichman> anyway, I'm off now. Bye
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> I was however astonished to find http://www.mauve.plus.com/car/
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> turning up at the top of my traffic stats.
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> :)
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> Wave.
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> Night.
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[00:53] <DanielRichman> oh and I've just noticed
[00:53] <DanielRichman> W0OTM: you haven't scaled the pics down; you've just resized them in html
[00:54] <DanielRichman> means you have to download the whole hi res pic
[00:55] <DanielRichman> bye 4 real
[00:55] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[02:48] <Darkside> the chase is on!
[02:48] <Darkside> we're moving n0ow
[02:49] <SpeedEvil> Good luck.
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[03:04] <natrium42> Darkside, ascent rate seems a bit small
[03:05] <natrium42> it will travel quite far
[03:07] <Darkside> yeah
[03:07] <Darkside> predicted location is over the border
[03:09] <natrium42> it better not land in that park
[03:09] <natrium42> will be hard to get it out
[03:11] <natrium42> many listeners, cool
[03:14] <Darkside> yeah
[03:17] <SpeedEvil> That is going quite far.
[03:24] <Darkside> yup
[03:29] <Darkside> wellwn e are getting food
[03:31] <natrium42> :D
[03:32] <natrium42> bon appetite
[03:54] <Darkside> lol
[03:55] <natrium42> is it crocodile meat?
[03:57] <Darkside> no
[03:57] <Darkside> chicken
[03:58] <natrium42> boring
[03:58] <Darkside> juxta says he has had it
[03:58] <Darkside> he says it tastes like chicken
[03:58] <natrium42> haha, everything tastes like chicken
[03:58] <Darkside> natrium42: how are terrance and phillip doing?
[03:59] <natrium42> they want. more. MONEY.
[03:59] <Darkside> lol
[04:00] <Darkside> you're not my buddy, friend!
[04:01] <natrium42> i am not your friend, pal
[04:01] <natrium42> :)
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[05:11] <Darkside> hey
[05:12] <Darkside> balloon burst ast 35.3km
[05:19] <natrium42> wow, very nice
[05:20] <natrium42> looks like it will land very close to the border
[05:20] <natrium42> :)
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[06:37] <m1x10> hello all
[06:42] <natrium42> o/
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[08:00] <Darkside> hey
[08:00] <Darkside> http://imgur.com/Bk8HQ.jpg
[08:01] <Darkside> thats from 35km
[08:01] <Darkside> and thats horus 7 btw
[08:01] <Darkside> i'm in a car with juxta, on our way back
[08:05] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/qgK4j.jpg
[08:05] <Darkside> the river murray from 33km up
[08:15] <m1x10> Darkside super :)
[08:15] <m1x10> Send greeting to juxta :)
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[09:11] <jcoxon> morning
[09:15] <Upu> morning
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[09:16] <Hiena> Already?
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[09:16] <Upu> yup
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[09:18] <Hiena> The carpenter working on my roof, and i had only a little sleep because spent the good part of the night decoding/cracking some MATIAS system logs.
[09:18] <jcoxon> wow juxta really does push the system
[09:19] <Upu> ?
[09:19] <jcoxon> load up spacenear.us and see how many points are on that last track
[09:20] <jcoxon> 20486 points
[09:20] <Hiena> On the upper hand, the carpenter found two and half rocket in the gutters.
[09:21] <Upu> enough to make a working one Hiena ?
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[09:23] <Hiena> Nah, these about 3 or 5 years old wrecks.
[09:25] <jcoxon> Upu, hows the payload coming along?
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[09:30] <Upu> breadboard is working fine just need to design a PCB on Eagle now
[09:30] <jcoxon> nice
[09:30] <Upu> it's almost done tbh
[09:31] <Upu> but I'm going to trawl RS / Farnell to day and order the components in before I send the PCB away
[09:31] <Upu> want to make sure everything fits
[09:31] <jcoxon> :-D
[09:31] <Upu> and my mate who fixes cameras turned up with a A560 and an A710 last night
[09:31] <Upu> so got those to play with next
[09:31] <jcoxon> cool
[09:31] <jcoxon> where you planning to launch from?
[09:31] <Upu> Preferably York
[09:31] <Upu> I'm a month or two away tbh not even thought about the container yet
[09:32] <Upu> apart from the pink element to it ofc :)
[09:32] <jcoxon> well just to warn - getting permission seems to be increasingly difficult
[09:32] <jcoxon> lots of people are still waiting for theirs to come through
[09:32] <Upu> yeah what is the score with that, we have blanket permission to launch from Cambridge ?
[09:33] <jcoxon> sort of
[09:33] <jcoxon> a group of us do
[09:33] <Upu> ah ok
[09:33] <jcoxon> and as long as one of us is there
[09:33] <jcoxon> you can launch
[09:33] <jcoxon> and one of us is always free for a launch
[09:33] <Upu> ok cool
[09:34] <jcoxon> there are 2 sites
[09:34] <jcoxon> Churchill College - you need to contact a CUSF member
[09:34] <jcoxon> and EARS need to speak with Rocketboy (Steve) or me (i think i'm still on the permission
[09:34] <jcoxon> )
[09:34] <Upu> Well when I have a working ready to go unit I'll start bothering people
[09:34] <Upu> tbh I want to tag along to someone elses launch first if possible
[09:35] <Upu> see how it works etc
[09:35] <jcoxon> good plan
[09:35] <Upu> but hopefully Rob can get permission to launch from York
[09:35] <jcoxon> yeah, that will make a big difference
[09:36] <Upu> I actually have a contact at the CAA
[09:36] <Upu> might have a word
[09:36] <jcoxon> summer is their busy time
[09:36] <Upu> he plans the flight patterns over London airspace
[09:36] <jcoxon> thats purely the delay
[09:36] <Upu> ah ok
[09:36] <jcoxon> rather then an issue with permission etc
[09:37] <jcoxon> with all the air shows etc
[09:37] <Upu> no rush at all I'm not going anywhere
[09:39] <Upu> need to do lots of testing
[09:39] <jcoxon> :-)
[09:39] <jcoxon> yes
[09:39] <jcoxon> test test test
[09:39] <Upu> I've already warned the wife there is going to be a pink thing in the freezer
[09:39] <jcoxon> i'm now in a position to start working on BH6
[09:39] <jcoxon> once i sort out my desk :-p
[09:40] <Upu> that's the ballast halo one ?
[09:40] <jcoxon> yeh
[09:40] <Upu> question : do you vent gas ?
[09:40] <jcoxon> though as i'm designing a new flight computer
[09:40] <fsphil> morning all
[09:40] <Upu> morning fsphil
[09:40] <jcoxon> i think i'll do a long duration float without ballast first
[09:40] <jcoxon> Upu, no
[09:40] <Upu> ok
[09:40] <jcoxon> its purely a test bed for hte ballast tanks
[09:40] <Upu> is it feasible to vent gas ?
[09:40] <jcoxon> might be
[09:40] <Upu> in a controlled manner ?
[09:41] <jcoxon> there are a few designs around
[09:41] <jcoxon> edmoore and i were thinking of something
[09:41] <Upu> I ask because if you want to do silly altitudes the trick is to heat the gas
[09:41] <Upu> and vent
[09:41] <Upu> I think
[09:41] <jcoxon> well the key would be to get the slowest ascent rate possible
[09:41] <jcoxon> so that you have 'just' enough He
[09:41] <Upu> in theory you could heat the gas using a no moving parts
[09:42] <Upu> or heat/vent
[09:42] <jcoxon> and use these new chinese balloons that juxta has
[09:42] <jcoxon> they seem far better then kaymont
[09:42] <Upu> yes I noticed that went pretty high
[09:42] <Upu> do we know the Chinese source >
[09:43] <jcoxon> well we need to get steve to speak with juxta so that randomsolutions will stock them
[09:43] <Upu> One of my clients import huge amounts of stuff from China and they are over there all the time
[09:43] <jcoxon> i think steve would be pleased not to have to deal with kaymont anylonger
[09:43] <Upu> anyway these are all ideas going round in my head, I'll settle for up down and pictures first
[09:44] <jcoxon> good plan
[09:47] <jcoxon> bbl
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[09:49] <fsphil> great work W0OTM, looks like everything went pretty well
[10:14] <Upu> http://www.yunhuanelectronics.com/Meteorological_Balloon.htm
[10:14] <Upu> Is this the balloons Juxta is using ?
[10:23] <fsphil> he mentioned the name once but I can't find it now
[10:44] <Upu> I'll wait till he comes on
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[10:44] <Laurenceb> yo
[10:44] <Upu> morning
[10:44] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/F2ws1.png <- image vectorization is kind of working...
[10:45] <fsphil> oooh wassat?
[10:45] <Laurenceb> raster graphics to vector convertor in python
[10:45] <Laurenceb> using PIL
[10:45] <Laurenceb> for CNC type applications
[10:46] <Laurenceb> it keeps giving up half way through some polygons atm... need to work out why - hopefully just a typo
[10:52] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[11:10] <Darkside> ok back
[11:10] <Darkside> sup all
[11:11] <SpeedEvil> I am about to get up.
[11:11] <SpeedEvil> If you mean HA stuff - I think there is nothing in the air.
[11:11] <SpeedEvil> A couple yesterday
[11:11] <Darkside> http://imgur.com/Bk8HQ.jpg
[11:11] <Darkside> like the one that i was chasing today :P
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> Oh - that was you
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> Neat
[11:13] <Darkside> me nd juxta were in teh ssame car
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[11:30] <fsphil> you got a really nice altitude
[11:30] <fsphil> how'd the repeater go?
[11:30] <Randomskk> I'm starting to wonder if we need to specify a datum for altitude
[11:31] <Randomskk> m1x10's point about getting more accurate altitudes when he swapped from WGS84 to EUR-B reminded me
[11:31] <Randomskk> but like, one datum could get you a couple hundred meters more altitude
[11:32] <fsphil> isn't the gps receiver suppose to handle all that automagically?
[11:32] <Randomskk> you select a datum
[11:32] <Randomskk> you tell the gps receiver what datum to use
[11:32] <Randomskk> they normally default to WGS84
[11:32] <fsphil> ah
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> Datum is required for altitude to be correct
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> WGS84 differs by several meters from some other datums.
[11:36] <Randomskk> m1x10 apparently saw 400m altitude with WGS84 to about 100m with EUR-B.
[11:37] <m1x10> yeah
[11:37] <m1x10> I used ucenter
[11:38] <m1x10> todays random values with WGS gave me up 180m alt when my normal is <110m
[11:38] <m1x10> and with my country's datum it gave me 110-130m
[11:39] <m1x10> so i u want to break the world's record better not steal with WGS !
[11:39] <m1x10> so if*
[11:40] <m1x10> WGS alt robber: http://imagebin.org/111867
[11:41] <m1x10> my datum: http://imagebin.org/111866
[11:42] <Randomskk> the difference between those two is practically insignificant though, especially as the DOP has changed
[11:43] <Randomskk> I mean, there's a difference, but for a balloon going to xxxxx meters there's not much in it
[11:44] <m1x10> sure, I agree. But why do I have to have a wrong value? I'd rather know the correct one.
[11:45] <m1x10> "I'd rather know the correct one" : is this correct as I say it?
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> What is the local altitude on the ground according to your local mapping agency.
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> Also - GPS altitude can vary by a few dozen metres easily
[11:48] <m1x10> According to http://www.daftlogic.com/sandbox-google-maps-find-altitude.htm
[11:48] <m1x10> Last point clicked : 103.531 m
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> Up to a hundred in the not-too-uncommon case.
[11:48] <m1x10> +20m my buildinf
[11:49] <Randomskk> I don't know that google maps will have the most accurate altitude
[11:49] <Randomskk> you really want a local government map
[11:49] <m1x10> 123m is a normal value, but 200m and 400 that I have seen are far wrong
[11:49] <m1x10> wait to look for one
[11:50] <Randomskk> but 400m could easily just be significant dop due to number of satellites in view
[11:50] <Randomskk> you could get just as inaccurate readings with EUR-B
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> For survey purposes with a consumer GPS, I recommend averaging over 24h
[11:55] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: but with what datum? :P
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> wgs84 is probably sane in most cases.
[11:56] <Randomskk> I'd have thought so
[11:56] <m1x10> oh shit!
[11:56] <m1x10> that 400 is in feet
[11:56] <m1x10> could be ?
[11:56] <Randomskk> no
[11:57] <m1x10> Last point clicked : 103.816 m / 340.603 feet
[11:58] <m1x10> its feet
[11:58] <m1x10> damn
[11:58] <Randomskk> unless you read the feet value by mistake
[11:58] <Randomskk> the GPS won't tell you feet where it usually says meteres.
[11:58] <m1x10> something is wrong in my code
[11:58] <Randomskk> meters even
[11:58] <m1x10> look
[11:58] <m1x10> PUBX,00,115822.00,4039.15797,N,02256.64432,E,316.288,G3,59,13,5.018,317.05,0.000,,14.11,3.28,7.32,5,0,0
[11:58] <m1x10> PUBX,00,115830.00,4039.13484,N,02256.64389,E,304.060,G3,55,12,1.143,323.13,0.000,,16.13,3.93,8.47,5,0,0
[11:58] <m1x10> PUBX,00,115838.00,4039.10724,N,02256.64812,E,294.886,G3,53,12,7.407,174.36,-0.001,,13.74,3.23,7.14,5,0,0
[11:59] <m1x10> 316.288,304.060,294.886
[11:59] <m1x10> these are in meters
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> no, they aren't
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> those are degrees
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> Err
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> nvm
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> I have not woken up yet.
[11:59] <m1x10> 7 546.589 numeric AltRef m Altitude above user datum ellipsoid.
[12:00] <m1x10> Altitude above user datum ellipsoid.
[12:00] <m1x10> unit: m
[12:00] <m1x10> from datasheet of ubx00
[12:00] <m1x10> no it got low to 215m
[12:00] <m1x10> and its falling
[12:01] <Randomskk> wow, sfml is really quite nice.
[12:01] <m1x10> sfml?
[12:01] <Randomskk> opengl library
[12:01] <Randomskk> like glut, or glfw
[12:01] <m1x10> a
[12:02] <Randomskk> I used glut ages ago, it's messy. then I used glfw and it's okay but now a bit old. glfw seems to be cool and new
[12:02] <m1x10> what can u make with it?
[12:02] <m1x10> graphics?
[12:02] <Randomskk> well, yes.
[12:02] <m1x10> so its a library that provides you shapes and things?
[12:02] <Randomskk> no.
[12:03] <m1x10> trigonometric functions maybe
[12:03] <Randomskk> it's a library that provides cross platform initialisation of an opengl rendering context, and as a bonus provides texture and font loading, cross platform sound, and a few other convenience functions
[12:03] <m1x10> oo much
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[13:24] <timbobel> oh hi all
[13:26] <Darkside> ohi
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[13:35] Nick change: fred_ -> Guest73421
[13:38] <W0OTM> updated photos of the iHAB Launch http://www.w0otm.com/iHAB/Launch-Photos.html
[13:42] <Upu> hey there nice launch :)
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[13:44] <timbobel> who developed our ftdigi?
[13:44] <timbobel> what is ihab
[13:44] <SpeedEvil> dl-fldigi - you mean?
[13:45] <W0OTM> Iowa High Altitude Balloon
[13:45] <DanielRichman> http://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/network/members
[13:45] <SpeedEvil> http://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi
[13:45] <SpeedEvil> yeah - that
[13:45] <timbobel> wow didnt you have a chute?
[13:45] <timbobel> geeez gigantic distance
[13:46] <Darkside> W0OTM: gratz, but you only got to 84000 feet? :P
[13:46] <fsphil> lol
[13:46] <W0OTM> Darkside: only?
[13:46] <Darkside> we got to 115990 feet today :P
[13:46] <W0OTM> Darkside: you make it sound like it was bad
[13:46] <timbobel> really!
[13:46] <m1x10> lol
[13:46] <Darkside> nah, its still damn good :P
[13:46] <W0OTM> Darkside: this was my first launch
[13:46] <timbobel> w0OTM: its not very high ;)
[13:46] <Darkside> still good :P
[13:46] <fsphil> altitude rage
[13:47] <W0OTM> I have only been a ham for less than a year
[13:47] <m1x10> hi all again
[13:47] <timbobel> darkside: who are you with, juxta?
[13:47] <W0OTM> I thought 84K is good
[13:47] <fsphil> it's very good W0OTM
[13:47] <Darkside> timbobel: yes
[13:47] <m1x10> W0OTM for first you are just fine
[13:47] <W0OTM> fsphil: thanks
[13:47] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/qgK4j.jpg thats from 108000 feet
[13:47] <timbobel> sure it is, w0otm.
[13:47] <Darkside> for a first flight thats damn good
[13:47] <m1x10> Darkside u used the chinese balloons?
[13:48] <Darkside> yes
[13:48] <Darkside> wasnt a clean burst
[13:48] <m1x10> can u show us a link on web?
[13:48] <Darkside> but still good
[13:48] <Darkside> nah, juxta has that
[13:48] <m1x10> ok
[13:48] <Darkside> i was just navigating today
[13:48] <Darkside> which was fun
[13:48] <m1x10> I thought some ppl here said those balloons are better than keymonts'
[13:48] <Darkside> they seem to be
[13:49] <timbobel> which balloons are those
[13:49] <Darkside> the chinese ones
[13:49] <timbobel> totex?
[13:49] <fsphil> Darkside, how high did the first launch go?
[13:49] <m1x10> hehe
[13:49] <Darkside> whatever they are
[13:49] <timbobel> japanse those are?
[13:49] <Darkside> fsphil: yesterdays? just above 34km i think
[13:49] <fsphil> oooh that's really good too
[13:49] <Darkside> today was 35354m
[13:49] <m1x10> Darkside any photo album like W0OTMs
[13:49] <Darkside> m1x10: i can probably upload something
[13:49] <Darkside> hold on
[13:49] <m1x10> ok
[13:49] <timbobel> mixio: theyre still busy right
[13:50] <m1x10> do u happen to upload any video from the spycams ???!?!?!
[13:50] <fsphil> that's higher than Icarus II got
[13:50] <Darkside> the video from the small camera didn't go very well
[13:50] <Darkside> i mean, it worked, but it was spinning around a lot
[13:50] <m1x10> hmm
[13:50] <Darkside> and i never copied it to my laptop
[13:50] <m1x10> At steady shots?
[13:50] <Darkside> i only copied the 3.2gb of images from the bloody canon camera
[13:50] <m1x10> was it good?
[13:50] <m1x10> (the cam)
[13:51] <Darkside> eh?
[13:51] <Darkside> which one do you mean
[13:51] <m1x10> the spycam
[13:51] <Darkside> the little tiny one i had or the one juxta has
[13:51] <timbobel> mixio: the spycams just arent great q
[13:51] <m1x10> when payload not spinning
[13:51] <timbobel> you've seen my results, right
[13:51] <m1x10> yeah, but is it the same one ?
[13:51] <fsphil> the progressive scan kills it, any spin at all and everything goes all wibbly wobbly
[13:52] <m1x10> Darkside, we wait for your album !!!
[13:52] <fsphil> my suppose-to-be-brilliant Canon HF200 has the same flaw -- it just doesn't handle fast movement well at all
[13:53] <Darkside> m1x10: bloody getting there
[13:53] <Darkside> argh
[13:53] <m1x10> fsphil we should make a antispin axis inside the payload
[13:53] <m1x10> but requires some knowledge
[13:53] <fsphil> camera stabiliser .. I think it's been discussed here
[13:53] <m1x10> yeah
[13:53] <fsphil> but it was all over my head
[13:53] <m1x10> heh
[13:53] <fsphil> (no pun intended)
[13:54] <fsphil> (well maybe a little)
[13:54] <m1x10> should be genius if someone finds a way to build an antispin axis inside the payload
[13:54] <Darkside> anywhere i can easily upload a few images as a gallery thingo?
[13:54] <fsphil> Something to spin at the same rate as the balloon shouldn't be too difficult
[13:55] <m1x10> hmm maybe
[13:55] <m1x10> Darkside, cant help u with that
[13:55] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/mccu8.jpg - Launching
[13:55] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/gXXO7.jpg - a bit after launch
[13:55] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/9wXN7.jpg - 33km up
[13:56] <fsphil> love that one
[13:56] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/iXsE7.jpg - 35km up
[13:56] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/5Q1Xo.jpg - some of the chase cars, just as the payload is about to land
[13:56] <m1x10> LOL
[13:56] <m1x10> NICE
[13:56] <Darkside> theres a *lot* more images
[13:57] <Darkside> and i do mean a lot
[13:57] <Darkside> about 1500 images from when its in the air
[13:57] <m1x10> so landing predictor is f*** good
[13:57] <fsphil> you saw this one land?
[13:57] <Darkside> i only just saw it
[13:57] <Darkside> the guys in the white 4wd's did :P
[13:57] <Darkside> me and juxta were on the other side of the field
[13:57] <Darkside> and couldn't get there in time
[13:58] <fsphil> I'm impressed you got there in time .. took us almost an hour to find our payload
[13:58] <Darkside> they got to see it land yesterday too
[13:58] <Darkside> also being able to see the path live really helps
[13:58] <fsphil> fantastic
[13:58] <Darkside> i was watching on the map wher eit was, and where we were all the time
[13:58] <fsphil> live predictor is amazing
[13:59] <Darkside> we didn't have the predictor for the last 30 min or so
[13:59] <Darkside> the 3g internet connection dropped out
[13:59] <fsphil> oi noi
[13:59] <Darkside> so we were running on data from the payload only
[13:59] <Darkside> so it was just watching the height, and ground speed
[14:00] <Darkside> as soon as it got to about 2km and the speed slowed, we knew it wasn't going to go much further
[14:00] <Darkside> so it was just trying to get as close as possible
[14:00] <Darkside> i caught a glimpse of the reflector as it landed, some of the guys in the other chase cars got photos
[14:00] <Darkside> and there was even video of the landing
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> IIRC there has been one near-catch.
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> ~50m away IIRC
[14:02] <Darkside> i think yesterdays they got very very close
[14:03] <Upu> 35km is pretty good going
[14:03] <m1x10> yeah
[14:04] <Upu> what make of balloon did you use ?
[14:04] <Darkside> nfi
[14:04] <Darkside> you'll have to ask juxta
[14:05] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/IMG_09331.jpg
[14:05] <Darkside> thats from Horus 3
[14:11] <Hiena> Any info about today's launch?
[14:15] <Darkside> what about it?
[14:15] <Darkside> it got to 35km :D
[14:16] <Hiena> The tracker didn't work.
[14:16] <Darkside> it worked for us :P
[14:16] <Darkside> it would have taken ages to load
[14:17] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/iXsE7.jpg - 35km up
[14:17] <Darkside> taken from the payload
[14:17] <Hiena> Pfff...Spoilsport...
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[14:29] <fsphil> it was juxta who nearly caught it I think -- there's a picture of him running towards it as it was landing
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[14:41] <W0OTM> just posted the news story from the local tv station for my ballon launch
[14:41] <W0OTM> http://www.w0otm.com/iHAB/iHAB-1/index.html
[14:41] <W0OTM> Darkside: nice photos btw
[14:42] <W0OTM> Darkside: do you leave your camera lense exposed
[14:42] <Darkside> yes, juxta did
[14:42] <Darkside> ask him when he comes online
[14:43] <W0OTM> Darkside: I put my cam behind a UV filter, mounted to the outside of the foam box, and I got HORRIBLE condensation
[14:43] <Darkside> yes, thats what juxta did on horus 2 i think
[14:43] <Darkside> he got condensation
[14:44] <Darkside> this time the camera lens was sticking out through a hole in the box
[14:44] <Darkside> the camera even got down to -21 degrees and kept on working
[14:44] <Darkside> -21 degrees C, that is
[14:44] <W0OTM> Darkside: ok, am going to try that next time
[14:44] <timbobel> darkside: could go a lot cooler.
[14:44] <Darkside> it could?
[14:44] <timbobel> surely
[14:44] <Darkside> we were worried that it would die
[14:44] <Darkside> but still, it survived
[14:44] <timbobel> come on i used 3 cameras, of which 1 camera with no shielding
[14:44] <timbobel> all OK
[14:45] <Darkside> lol nice
[14:45] <timbobel> and, my camera was under water for an hour
[14:45] <timbobel> no problems
[14:45] <Darkside> lol
[14:45] <Darkside> i cant remember what the cameras model was, but it was some canon thing which could run CHDK
[14:46] <timbobel> yeah i had 2 of those
[14:46] <timbobel> and 1 spy cam
[14:46] <timbobel> they went to 31.1km (>100k ft) and they slashed down with 25m/s in the water
[14:46] <Darkside> lol nice
[14:46] <timbobel> 0 lens problems
[14:46] <timbobel> or any other problem
[14:46] <timbobel> only the arduino rebooted
[14:47] <timbobel> and the falcom fsa03 crappy gps broke
[14:47] <Darkside> i'd like to get some live images down
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> Live image has been done, but takes _lots_ of work for even teeny images.
[14:47] <Darkside> heh
[14:47] <Darkside> im sure
[14:47] <Darkside> though we did get pretty reliable 300 baud imagery
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> I was pondering a 5GHz - 802.11b - with a 2.4m dish.
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> For my UAV test ground station.
[14:48] <Darkside> i think wifi has a distance limit
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't really.
[14:48] <timbobel> speedevil: that last time you mean with jcoxon and the images on flickr?
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> It does in some cases, but you can hit 150km
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> timbobel: yes.
[14:48] <Darkside> heh
[14:48] <timbobel> speedevil: respect for that.
[14:48] <timbobel> good job
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> I was uninvolved with the images.
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> Actually, that's not quite true.
[14:48] <m1x10> I worked wifi 802.11a up to 45km
[14:49] <SpeedEvil> I think I suggested a text colour.
[14:49] <m1x10> my friends up to 60km
[14:49] <SpeedEvil> But that's not very involved.
[14:49] <m1x10> but u need dished to target
[14:49] <m1x10> dishes*
[14:49] <Darkside> doing wifi on a balloon would be hard :P
[14:49] <m1x10> yeah its going to put many kilos
[14:49] <SpeedEvil> m1 yeah - range to omni is half that of range to equal dish
[14:49] <Darkside> id just try and do some kind of higher baud telemetry
[14:50] <m1x10> Darkside you was on HF?
[14:50] <fsphil> Darkside, I did live images at 300 baud -- very slow even for 320x240
[14:50] <m1x10> im working at afsk 1200baud 144.8
[14:50] <Darkside> fsphil: you did the fldigi mod to do images?
[14:50] <fsphil> yep
[14:50] <Darkside> lol cool
[14:50] <Darkside> very nice
[14:50] <Darkside> heres a question - do you understand the MFSK code?
[14:51] <Darkside> i'm trying to understand how to get from data, to what frequency i need to have the carrier on and for how long
[14:51] <fsphil> oh you mean the mfsk images? the mod I did was for rtty
[14:52] <Darkside> nah this is different
[14:52] <Darkside> i mean just MFSK in general
[14:52] <fsphil> I don't think it's much more than rtty - I only looked at the code briefly as I'd like to try it in future
[14:53] <fsphil> might be able to squeeze through a bit more data than rtty
[14:53] <fsphil> but I've heard its very difficult to tune properly, and with the ntx2 drifting about the place I don't think it would be much fun
[14:53] <Darkside> basically i hand a signal generator where i can program in what carrier it generates
[14:53] <Darkside> i have*
[14:54] <Darkside> RTTY - easy enough, and already done
[14:54] <Darkside> MFSK is certainly possible, but i really have no idea how to do it
[14:55] <Darkside> looking at parsing a chunk of data, and working out what tones i should be transmitting
[14:59] Action: timbobel wonders if anyone knows how fldigi can playback the audiosignals (redirect the mic signals to my speakrs)
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[16:08] <fsphil> sorry, got called afk for a 'minute'
[16:08] <fsphil> Darkside, I made a tweak to the dominoex code to make it faster -- seems to be more tolerant of frequency error
[16:08] <fsphil> though I'm not sure yet how suitable it is for binary data
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[18:14] <Randomskk> hmm
[18:15] <Randomskk> what's the smallest set of parameters to define an ellipse?
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> you need the two focal points don't you?
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> And then a third point to define the plane the elipse sits on
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> Or a third orientation really, it's not a point
[18:18] <Randomskk> if you just had the position of the two focal points I don't think you'd have the minor axis
[18:18] <Randomskk> I think you need the major and minor axes lenths and the eccentricity?
[18:18] <SpeedEvil> I mean - you need the position of the two focal points, but there is then only the rotation of the elipse about the axes to fix
[18:19] <SpeedEvil> It's a single value - not a full x/y/z position to determine the orientation about the major axis
[18:19] <Randomskk> are just the two focal points enough? don't you then need the eccentricity to get the distance of the ellipse away from the foci?
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> umm
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> yes, so you do
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> oops
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> So - 8 numbers?
[18:21] <Randomskk> I think you can get away with just three numbers for an in-plane ellipse: a, b, e
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> you mean if you just want to determine shape?
[18:21] <Randomskk> the foci are given once you know a and e
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> in that case, can't you just use length and breadth?
[18:21] <Randomskk> to get a position in 3d space I guess you'd then need one offset from the origin and something to fix it about the rotation
[18:22] <Randomskk> length and breadth would.. give the shape, but not the foci, yea
[18:22] <Randomskk> I really it turns out I was asking a more specific question, which is what is the minimum amount I need to specify to get an elliptical orbit
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> You can derive the focii from the shape though.
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> Two line elements?
[18:23] <Randomskk> from just the a and b?
[18:23] <Randomskk> don't you also need the e?
[18:23] <Randomskk> else the foci could be anywhere along the major axis
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> An elipse is just a distorted circle.
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> Its shape is completely described by two figures.
[18:24] <Randomskk> but not its foci?
[18:24] <Randomskk> the same shaped ellipse could have any number of potential symmetric foci along the major axis, depending on the eccentricity
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> The foci are useful to construct the shape.
[18:24] <Randomskk> or in the case of orbits, quite important
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> But they are nothing fundamental.
[18:24] <Randomskk> you don't need them to know the shape, true
[18:25] <SpeedEvil> well - fundamental to geometry.
[18:25] <Randomskk> but you are already specifying them for the orbit
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> What are you really trying to ask?
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> If it's a two body orbit, the orbit is described by apoapsis and periapsis
[18:28] <Randomskk> really, what I need to specify as initial conditions for an elliptical satellite orbit, I think
[18:29] <Randomskk> I think the initial height, the eccentricity and the minor axis?
[18:29] <Randomskk> height above the planet I guess
[18:30] Action: Randomskk is doing verlet integration of satellite equations of motion
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> Just apogeer and perigee I think.
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> For a two body problem
[18:44] <Randomskk> thankfully yes, only two bodies. arguably not even that, M>>m
[18:45] <timbobel> baudot's working!
[18:46] <timbobel> Daniel wrote a master code i've implemented and tested
[18:46] <timbobel> for this string “$$TBL,167,12:13:14,52.7933,5.1163,14378#3A\r\n”
[18:46] <timbobel> * 5 Baudot 6.8 seconds
[18:46] <timbobel> * 7 ASCII 8.1 seconds
[18:46] <timbobel> * 8 ASCII 9.0 seconds
[18:46] <timbobel> some more on it here : http://hollandshoogte.wordpress.com/
[18:47] <Randomskk> baudot, or ITA2?
[18:48] <timbobel> baudot
[18:49] <timbobel> wait
[18:49] <timbobel> ITA2 it is i guess
[18:50] <Randomskk> and you have the codes to swap from letters to figures?
[18:50] <timbobel> yeah
[18:50] <Randomskk> well, fair enough, it saves you a little bit
[18:51] <timbobel> you can just say " rtty("$$ABC,123,234"); "
[18:58] <timbobel> by the way, why doesnt everyone put it to 300 baud?
[18:59] <Randomskk> no idea. 50 baud is maybe more decodable at extremes of distance and noise
[18:59] <timbobel> yeah but i've seen launches that go from 50baud, to 300baud at max altitude and back
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[19:11] <fsphil> switching baud rates is probably more trouble than its worth
[19:12] <Randomskk> I'd just do it all at 300, personally
[19:12] <fsphil> agreed
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[19:15] <timbobel> really?
[19:15] <timbobel> okay
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[20:51] <jcoxon> evening
[20:51] <Randomskk> yo
[20:52] <jcoxon> evening Randomskk
[20:55] <jonsowman> hello jcoxon
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[21:43] <natrium42> nooo
[21:43] <m1x10> lol
[21:46] <W0OTM> howdy
[21:46] <natrium42> hi W0OTM
[21:47] <natrium42> so... when is next launch? :)
[21:47] <W0OTM> few weeksn I think
[21:47] <W0OTM> I learned alot
[21:48] <W0OTM> see some areas I need to improve on
[21:48] <W0OTM> want to expand the payload telementry
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[21:51] <natrium42> cool
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[22:20] <spacefelix> Can you guys tell me about garbage bag parachutes and balloons
[22:21] <spacefelix> Is there an effective way to bind the polyethelyene sheets without using tape or other ungainly means?
[22:22] <Randomskk> yea, CUSF has something and it's cool, some kind of plastic welder, but I've never seen it in operation
[22:22] <Randomskk> it has big aluminium pressure vessels and things
[22:22] <Randomskk> it looks quite the business
[22:22] <Randomskk> (we made it some time ago)
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> Hatsealing.
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> heat
[22:22] <spacefelix> Ah, okay.
[22:23] <spacefelix> What if I just want a quick and dirty heatseal?
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> Got a soldering iron?
[22:23] <spacefelix> There was an onld informercial product that was just a small hot iron that did this.
[22:23] <spacefelix> Oh man, tried a soldering iron and it sucked. :P
[22:23] <spacefelix> The table also has a trail of burn holes. :P
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> you need it set on - relatively - low temp
[22:23] <spacefelix> Okay.
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> and then run it down at a constant pressure, with a barrier between it and the polythene
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Heated-Plastic-Bag-Sealer-Handy-Sealer-BN-/150485176538?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Kitchen_FoodStorage_GL worked surprisingly well in some small tests
[22:26] <spacefelix> YES. That is the item I have been looking for!
[22:27] <m1x10> bye all !
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[22:31] <SpeedEvil> It is made much more usable if you 'seal' using a strip of thicker poly on the top of the bag
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> rather than directly on top of the very thin binbag
[22:39] <W0OTM> anyone worked with an APRS iGate?
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[22:43] <spacefelix> SpeedEvil: Ah, so pretty much like metal welding...
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> I suppose you could laser weld it
[22:44] <spacefelix> Friction stir welding! Can it be done for plastics?
[22:44] <spacefelix> Mmmm, hmmmm.
[22:44] <spacefelix> I've seen laser cutting, but welding... hmm.
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> I suspect it may be tricky on .05rmm thick plastic
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[23:38] <natrium42> juxta!
[23:39] <juxta> hey natrium42
[23:39] <juxta> long weekend :)
[23:39] <juxta> some awesome pics, hehe
[23:39] <natrium42> yes, pix plz
[23:39] <natrium42> congrats! great launches!
[23:39] <juxta> hehe
[23:39] <juxta> pix will be up later today
[23:39] <juxta> oh, also, we got video of the payload coming down
[23:40] <juxta> :)
[23:40] <juxta> we saw it coming down both days, the second day we got pics and video
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[00:00] --- Mon Aug 30 2010