[00:02] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[00:04] BuffaloSouljah (~alberto@2002:ad13:5efb:0:20c:76ff:fefb:b0e2) joined #highaltitude.
[00:08] meujo (5ed67156@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[00:11] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[00:15] meujo (5ed67156@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[00:17] <juxta> jonsowman, pong
[00:17] <juxta> I guess you may be asleep
[00:17] <jonsowman> I'm here :)
[00:17] <juxta> ping natrium42
[00:17] <juxta> oh right :)
[00:17] <jonsowman> s/may/should/ perhaps
[00:17] <juxta> hehe
[00:18] <juxta> got the balloon back yesterday, despite total failure of the gps
[00:18] <jonsowman> Did you want me - you mentioned me about 11pm bst last night
[00:18] <jonsowman> Oo excellent - how and what happened?
[00:18] <juxta> yes I was going to ask something, but I forget what now!
[00:18] <jonsowman> Hehe sorry
[00:19] <juxta> we were launching a payload for a team from Sydney - the weather was terrible and their payload wouldnt get lock
[00:19] <jonsowman> Just ask it and mention me, I'll get it when I return to irc :)
[00:19] <jonsowman> Oh right - how did you find it then?
[00:19] <juxta> as it turns out the GPS antenna was damaged (read: snapped off) when they stuffed everything in the payload
[00:19] <jonsowman> Ouch
[00:19] <jonsowman> that's bad
[00:19] <juxta> then the camera stopped working, so we had to quickly pull it apart and resolder the shutter wires
[00:20] <Randomskk> was the balloon inflated at that point?
[00:20] <juxta> (at this point the balloon was already inflated, so we couldnt really turn around)
[00:20] <Randomskk> excellent
[00:20] <juxta> haha
[00:20] <Randomskk> the best time for last minute repairs
[00:20] <juxta> we had a backup radiosonde on hand though, as we were not sure if we should trust their stuff
[00:20] <jonsowman> Randomskk: we broke geiger muller tube #2 during assembly before launch
[00:20] <Randomskk> btw jonsowman I found much much nicer google graphs for dials: http://www.google.com/ig/directory?url=www.google.com/ig/modules/gauge.xml
[00:20] <jonsowman> whoops
[00:21] <Randomskk> jonsowman: ah, you found out in the post mortem?
[00:21] <jonsowman> yep, that bent contact killed it
[00:21] <juxta> so we got the camera working, then flew with the radiosonde
[00:21] <juxta> launching was a challenge though
[00:21] <Randomskk> ah damn, oh well
[00:21] <jonsowman> juxta: cool :) you got it back, so good work :)
[00:21] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yeh, Centronics should send us a couple more though
[00:21] <jonsowman> they pretty much said we could have as many as we liked and we just needed to ask
[00:22] <Randomskk> cool. did they like what you did? (I take it you emailed them some kind of debrief?)
[00:22] <jonsowman> Yep, they said it was excellent
[00:22] <jonsowman> SGS got a letter from the CEO
[00:22] <Randomskk> snazzy stuff
[00:22] <Randomskk> giving fun electronics to schoolkids with a mission is excellent and something I hope to do a lot of
[00:22] <jonsowman> Definitely
[00:23] <juxta> it was uh, rather windy at launch: www.bogaurd.net/IMG_0690.JPG
[00:23] <Randomskk> hah epic
[00:23] <jonsowman> whoa
[00:23] <jonsowman> that's fantastic
[00:23] <juxta> that was pulling quite hard
[00:23] <jonsowman> I bet
[00:24] <juxta> we clocked the balloon at approx 230km/h in the air
[00:24] <jonsowman> :o
[00:24] <juxta> (I thought that was pretty good, but evidently some people have registered met office balloons doing 140m/s here)
[00:25] <juxta> so half as fast a commercial jet
[00:25] <Randomskk> except without the jet. crazy
[00:27] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[00:27] <Randomskk> :O UVB-76 is back online
[00:27] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp089210187222.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: Quit: I eat electrons for breakfast and I vomit thunders
[00:27] <juxta> www.bogaurd.net/100_3192.JPG
[00:27] <Randomskk> ! very pretty
[00:27] <Randomskk> haven't seen that before I don't think
[00:28] <jonsowman> wow
[00:28] <jonsowman> that's amazing
[00:28] <jonsowman> good work juxta
[00:28] <juxta> sadly the camera cut out after perhaps 10-15km
[00:28] <juxta> not sure why, maybe the violent wind forced some water in
[00:29] <juxta> (it wasnt my payload, so I'm not too familiar with it)
[00:29] <jonsowman> ah ok
[00:32] <juxta> i best go have a shower - I just dropped the Sydney guys off at the airport, will put up some information & more photos of me wrangling the balloon shortly
[00:33] <jonsowman> cool :D see you
[00:34] <juxta> actually - jonsowman/Randomskk, do either of you have access to the tracker?
[00:35] <jonsowman> Randomskk does
[00:35] <jonsowman> I assume you mean spacenear?
[00:35] <juxta> yeah
[00:35] <jonsowman> what do you want to do to it?
[00:35] <juxta> could you possible put a point at the launch and landing locations for the payload? ;p
[00:35] <Randomskk> I do I think
[00:35] <jonsowman> oh you can do that yourself
[00:35] <jonsowman> www.robertharrison.org/listen/test.php
[00:35] <juxta> just via test.php?
[00:35] <juxta> okay
[00:36] <juxta> cheers
[00:36] <jonsowman> np :)
[00:36] <juxta> is checksum optional?
[00:36] <jonsowman> ye[
[00:36] <jonsowman> *yep
[00:36] <juxta> hurrah
[00:36] <jonsowman> hehe
[00:38] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[00:38] <juxta> I just put the launch on - looks like the predictor had a very accurate prediction
[00:39] <jonsowman> :)
[00:39] <jonsowman> that's good to hear
[00:39] <Randomskk> it's great when it works
[00:39] <Randomskk> jonsowman: we need to work on this night launch concept some
[00:39] <jonsowman> yes
[00:39] <jonsowman> we do
[00:39] <Randomskk> maybe in a few weeks? or do you want to postpone it until after selwx?
[00:39] <juxta> we're planning a night launch soon
[00:40] <jonsowman> don't mind :)
[00:40] <jonsowman> can work on both concurrently
[00:40] <juxta> (doing a night recovery of a met office balloon this weekend)
[00:40] <jonsowman> stop us getting bored with one
[00:40] <jonsowman> juxta: nice :)
[00:40] <juxta> you guys will beat me to it though :P
[00:40] <Randomskk> doubt it
[00:41] <Randomskk> we haven't started
[00:41] <jonsowman> unlikely
[00:41] <jonsowman> hehe
[00:41] <jonsowman> unless we just grab a camera off ebay and stick ferret on it
[00:41] <Randomskk> jonsowman: tempted to do the pcb in kicad
[00:41] <Randomskk> haha yea
[00:41] <Randomskk> but ferret hasn't had the most reliable track record
[00:41] <Randomskk> and cuts at 24k
[00:41] <jonsowman> no, I think investing in a lassen for it might be wise
[00:42] <juxta> okay - shower, catch you guys later :)
[00:42] <jonsowman> see you
[00:42] <jonsowman> :)
[00:54] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[00:59] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[01:00] juxta (juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[01:01] juxta (juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[01:06] Guest1520790 (~smealum@ left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[01:08] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Quit: The cake is a lie !
[01:18] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[01:45] MoALTz (~no@ left irc: Quit: Leaving
[02:46] alikins_ (~adrian@cpe-066-057-101-225.nc.res.rr.com) left irc: Read error: No route to host
[02:46] alikins_ (~adrian@cpe-066-057-101-225.nc.res.rr.com) joined #highaltitude.
[03:06] jasonb (~jasonb@dsl092-009-225.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out
[03:18] alikins_ (~adrian@cpe-066-057-101-225.nc.res.rr.com) left irc: Read error: No route to host
[03:19] alikins_ (~adrian@cpe-066-057-101-225.nc.res.rr.com) joined #highaltitude.
[03:23] <W0OTM> New iHAB-1 flightpath prediction is posted @ http://www.w0otm.com/iHAB. Looks like its moved further north closer to Williamsburg, Iowa. Launch is still a go for 1500Z (10AM CDT)
[03:26] Wild-Wing (~chatzilla@c-24-34-60-55.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[03:37] <alikins_> hope you have better luck with the aprs than we did. Whats the cell phone tracker setup?
[04:02] BuffaloSouljah (~alberto@2002:ad13:5efb:0:20c:76ff:fefb:b0e2) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out
[04:05] <natrium42> W0OTM, cool
[04:07] <juxta> hey natrium42
[04:07] <natrium42> hi juxta
[04:07] <natrium42> did you get the payload back?
[04:07] <juxta> thanks for putting the predictor online yesterday - shame we couldnt end up using it!
[04:07] <juxta> we sure did :)
[04:07] <natrium42> great!
[04:08] <juxta> launch conditions were not ideal
[04:08] <juxta> http://www.bogaurd.net/IMG_0690.JPG
[04:08] <juxta> that'
[04:08] <juxta> that's me once we had a break in the driving rain
[04:08] <natrium42> whoa
[04:08] <natrium42> pretty extreme indeed
[04:08] <juxta> balloon hit ~230km/h
[04:10] <juxta> the camera worked till perhaps 10 or 15 km, then cut out - maybe the high winds forced some water in, I'm not sure
[04:10] <juxta> but we got some pics of rainbows :)
[04:10] <juxta> http://www.bogaurd.net/100_3192.JPG
[04:11] <juxta> natrium42, pm?
[04:12] <natrium42> sure
[04:12] <natrium42> oh, sweet picture
[04:27] Wild-Wing (~chatzilla@c-24-34-60-55.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[04:53] Wild-Wing (~chatzilla@c-24-34-60-55.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[05:15] Wild-Wing (~chatzilla@c-24-34-60-55.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 2.0.6/20100701062219]
[05:20] jasonb (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) joined #highaltitude.
[05:51] <Darkside> hmm
[05:51] <Darkside> any adelaide amateur operators here?
[05:52] <natrium42> juxta?
[05:52] <Darkside> i'm looking for someone that has a 40m dipole :)
[05:52] <juxta> allo allo
[05:52] <juxta> ah
[05:52] <juxta> Adrian does
[05:52] <juxta> wait, maybe it's 80m
[05:52] <Darkside> i have a 60mW transmitter i'd like to test on a proper antenna
[05:52] <Darkside> i can do 80m
[05:52] <Darkside> i can do whatever frequency i want tbh
[05:52] <juxta> O
[05:53] <juxta> I'm sure we can organise that
[05:53] <Darkside> problem is with 60mW the cable run might pose a problem
[05:53] <juxta> hm
[05:53] <juxta> are you wanting to test the SWR?
[05:53] <Darkside> i'd like to see if i can make a CW QSO with anyone
[05:53] <juxta> oh righto
[05:54] <juxta> shouldnt be a problem, I'll ask him when I speak to him later today
[05:54] <Darkside> cool
[05:55] <juxta> where abouts do you live?
[05:55] <Darkside> kensington
[05:57] <juxta> oh cool, Adrian's just up at Felixstow
[05:58] <Darkside> hmmmmm is he on the banks of the torrens?
[05:58] <Darkside> or near there?
[05:58] Action: Darkside brings up the rfmap
[05:59] <Darkside> found him : )
[05:59] <Darkside> i know the house
[05:59] <Darkside> theres another amateur next door
[06:00] <Darkside> oh hey, he's a full call too
[06:00] <Darkside> :P
[06:00] <juxta> hehe
[06:00] <juxta> yeah his neighbor is a ham too
[06:01] <Darkside> yep
[06:01] <Darkside> rfmap ftw :)
[06:01] <Darkside> http://krump.spench.net/RFMap/#pos=-34.8863255,138.6427542&zoom=13&type=roadmap
[06:01] <Darkside> if you havent seen it :)
[06:02] <Darkside> ok, time to pack up and get some lunch
[06:02] <Darkside> back on later
[06:03] <juxta> I hadn't - very cool!
[06:04] alikins_ (~adrian@cpe-066-057-101-225.nc.res.rr.com) left irc: Quit: alikins_
[06:30] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp089210187222.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[06:31] <m1x10> morning
[06:35] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[06:38] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) joined #highaltitude.
[07:08] BuffaloSouljah (~alberto@2002:ad13:5efb:0:20c:76ff:fefb:b0e2) joined #highaltitude.
[07:11] BuffaloSouljah (alberto@2002:ad13:5efb:0:20c:76ff:fefb:b0e2) left #highaltitude.
[07:41] SpikeUK (~chatzilla@host81-136-134-46.in-addr.btopenworld.com) joined #highaltitude.
[07:44] dutch-mill (3e2d865e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[07:50] <fsphil> ooh juxta, love the windy picture!
[08:01] <Upu> morning
[08:11] <m1x10> Impossible!!!!
[08:11] <m1x10> I removed the cellular antenna from GSM module and it still rx/txing !
[08:12] <m1x10> LOL
[08:12] dutch-mill (3e2d865e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[08:15] <fsphil> is there a gsm tower on your roof? :)
[08:15] <fsphil> morning Upu
[08:18] <m1x10> no man
[08:18] <m1x10> I dont know where is the closest
[08:19] <m1x10> but i recieve and send sms with no problem
[08:19] <m1x10> :)
[08:19] juxta_ (~blah@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[08:21] <juxta> cheers fsphil :)
[08:24] juxta_ (~blah@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[08:35] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host217-43-152-55.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[08:35] kerblammo (~dom@213138152225.edelkey.net) joined #highaltitude.
[08:49] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp089210187222.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: Quit: I eat electrons for breakfast and I vomit thunders
[08:51] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[08:51] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp089210187222.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[08:54] natrium42 (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[09:00] <kerblammo> Hi folks. Does anyone know of any HAB activity in Helsinki?
[09:02] rharrison (~rharrison@gateway.hgf.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:03] <rharrison> Just to let the group know I'm bidding on a ft 790r for a Ugandan launch
[09:04] <fsphil> rharrison, which one? there are two, I'll skip the one your after
[09:04] <m1x10> is there any way to power 2 arduinos from 1 battery pack?
[09:04] <rharrison> I didn't see the other
[09:04] <rharrison> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yaesu-FT-790R-70cms-FM-SSB-transceiver-Sommerkamp-/280553344353?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM
[09:04] <fsphil> aye, there's another though it's not in as good condition
[09:05] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[09:05] <fsphil> ah it's just a 790 -- no R
[09:05] <fsphil> private function canhave_midrail()
[09:05] <fsphil> {
[09:05] <fsphil> $min = $this->orderform->style->minstylemidbardoorheight;
[09:05] <fsphil> $disabled = $min < 0;
[09:05] <fsphil> $disabled |= $this->height < 600;
[09:05] <fsphil> if($this->type == "door") $disabled |= $this->height < $min;
[09:05] <fsphil> if($this->type == "slopingdoor") $disabled |= strstr($this->subtitle(), "+MID RAIL") == false;
[09:05] <fsphil> return(!$disabled);
[09:05] <fsphil> }
[09:05] <fsphil> eek
[09:06] <fsphil> copy and paste fail
[09:06] <rharrison> lol
[09:06] <m1x10> haha
[09:06] <fsphil> bah, just search for FT790 Mk1 ;-)
[09:09] <fsphil> m1x10, you could just split the wires
[09:11] <fsphil> actually the Mk1 version might not even be that good
[09:21] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[09:22] <m1x10> fsphil, backup module pic -> http://imagebin.org/111283
[09:28] <fsphil> cute!
[09:41] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp089210187222.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: Quit: I eat electrons for breakfast and I vomit thunders
[09:48] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[09:48] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[09:59] kerblammo (dom@213138152225.edelkey.net) left #highaltitude.
[10:09] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host217-43-152-55.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[10:09] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host217-43-152-55.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:26] <rharrison> Do we know when the predictor is coming to habhub?
[10:27] <rharrison> I guess this is one for jonsowman Randomskk
[10:30] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp089210187222.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[10:35] <Randomskk> "soon"
[10:35] <Randomskk> and the hourly predictor too
[10:39] <fsphil> btw, the wiki is still recommending the old version of dl-fldigi. maybe time to change that?
[10:41] juxta_ (~blah@ppp118-210-145-231.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[10:43] cuddykid (~acudworth@ joined #highaltitude.
[10:45] <Randomskk> yea, I guess we should
[10:45] <Randomskk> the new version is definitely production ready I feel
[10:45] <m1x10> predictor?
[10:46] juxta_ (~blah@ppp118-210-145-231.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[10:46] <Randomskk> http://cuspaceflight.co.uk/predict
[10:51] <m1x10> it doesnot work for me
[10:53] <Randomskk> doesn't work hwo?
[10:53] <Randomskk> how*?
[10:54] <m1x10> i do the usual prediction test
[10:54] <m1x10> and returns
[10:54] <m1x10> The server rejected the submitted form data: The server said the model it made was invalid
[10:54] <Randomskk> curious. might be an issue with NOAA then
[10:54] <m1x10> yeah
[10:55] <m1x10> hexoc.com predictor returns the same
[10:55] <m1x10> show me the link with the todo list
[10:55] <Randomskk> github.com/jonsowman
[10:55] <Randomskk> go to the predictor, then issues
[10:55] <fsphil> what date did you use m1x10?
[10:56] <m1x10> todat
[10:56] <m1x10> y
[10:57] <fsphil> I was going to say it was working here, but I just tried and it has me going into orbit again :
[10:57] <fsphil> :)
[10:57] <fsphil> guess the quota has been maxed out again
[10:58] <fsphil> though that wouldn't affect the hexon version
[10:58] <fsphil> hexoc even
[11:02] kerblammo (~dom@213138152225.edelkey.net) joined #highaltitude.
[11:11] <rharrison> fsphil, whats the quota for
[11:11] <rharrison> NOAA or SRCF
[11:12] <rharrison> student run computing facitilty or whatever it called
[11:12] <fsphil> srcf
[11:12] <jonsowman> morning all
[11:12] <fsphil> the last few times the predictor stopped working it was because they'd run out of space, had to delete stuff to get it going again
[11:12] <jonsowman> predictor issues again?
[11:12] <rharrison> That won't be a limitation for habhub
[11:13] <fsphil> definitely not!
[11:13] <fsphil> jonsowman, I ended up in orbit again :)
[11:13] <jonsowman> we will be moving the stable predictor from srcf to habhub shortly
[11:13] <rharrison> Be cool to get this shifted to habhub I have a few people asking about predictions and it would be cool to point them to the new site
[11:13] <m1x10> yeah!!!!!!!!!
[11:13] <jonsowman> fsphil: 2 secs
[11:13] <jonsowman> rharrison: am on it
[11:14] <rharrison> scp blah blah ...
[11:14] <jonsowman> git clone :)
[11:14] <rharrison> I'm an old git these days
[11:14] <fsphil> noo.. there's enough gits out there already ;)
[11:14] <rharrison> git clone is a far better way
[11:16] <jonsowman> hehe
[11:16] <jonsowman> yeah the SRCF quota is right on the limit which is why it keeps dying
[11:16] <jonsowman> the hexoc one will be fine though
[11:17] <m1x10> a blog based on NoSQL mongodb database.
[11:17] <m1x10> http://blog.mongodb.org/
[11:17] <cuddykid> Hi guys, looking to launch very soon hopefully. On a high note (helium), has anyone sucessfully managed to get helium of BOC for free?
[11:17] <m1x10> those alternative databases are veeery fast
[11:18] <fsphil> high note .. classic :)
[11:18] <cuddykid> :)
[11:20] <fsphil> All I got from boc for free is the price list
[11:21] <Randomskk> :P
[11:21] <cuddykid> fsphil, oh dear!
[11:21] <cuddykid> I'll give them a call later, no harm in trying!
[11:22] <Randomskk> m1x10: to be honest, mysql is also very fast, though
[11:22] <Randomskk> it's a question of what you need and how best to solve the problem
[11:22] <Randomskk> for relational data, using a nosql database is just a lot of workarounds and effort
[11:22] <rharrison> cuddykid, I think it's very unlikely CUSF managed it as part of their space program but the Uni spends 100's of K with BOC each year
[11:23] <jonsowman> fsphil: try the srcf pred now
[11:23] <jonsowman> think you should be ok :)
[11:23] <rharrison> I have managed to wangle some for schools after 6 months and a bit of media attention.
[11:23] <cuddykid> rharrison, ahh, I see! Hm, doesn't look to good then :(
[11:23] <Upu> hey cuddykid you in the UK ?
[11:23] <cuddykid> hey Upu, yes
[11:24] <Upu> cool when you launching ?
[11:24] <Upu> I need to test my gear :)
[11:25] <cuddykid> I've got CAA permission until 30th august, however they have put strict guidelines down such as it MUST go west/sw of launch site due to restricted airspace to east (bhx airport i'm guessing!)
[11:25] <cuddykid> and with the jet stream as it is atm, its looking unlikely that i'll be able to get those conditions before 30th :(
[11:26] <Upu> well I'll be ready to try do some tracking
[11:26] <Upu> unless you launch when I'm in Scotland which would suck but hey ho
[11:27] <cuddykid> haha, thanks!
[11:27] <fsphil> you could try tracking from scotland :)
[11:27] <cuddykid> Its been a long time coming! Been preparing for just over a year now!
[11:28] <rharrison> cuddykid, where is the launch site
[11:28] <cuddykid> ergh, all the predictions at the moment are sending it over birmingham airport :(
[11:28] <cuddykid> rharrison, near worcester
[11:28] <rharrison> oh malvern neck of the woods
[11:28] <jonsowman> cuddykid: we did our first launch from Bromyard :)
[11:28] <rharrison> Had a g/f there once
[11:29] <cuddykid> yes :)
[11:29] <jonsowman> cuddykid: also, don't take too much notice of predictions until ~3 days before launch date
[11:29] <cuddykid> jonsowman, oh wow, not far at all!
[11:29] <cuddykid> ok
[11:29] <Upu> Yeah tracking from Scotland = possible , convincing the wife to take a 2 meter long Yagi and radio gear on holiday with us ... not so easy :)
[11:29] <rharrison> Yep I'll second that
[11:29] <jonsowman> it's still 5 days away at the moment and they're not really reliable
[11:29] <cuddykid> ok, fingers crossed!
[11:29] <cuddykid> the payloads just waiting ready to fly!
[11:30] <rharrison> cuddykid, you're cuttign it fine against the NOTAM
[11:30] <cuddykid> rharrison, I am :/ I've emailed the guy back asking if he can extend it but haven't heard back from him yet
[11:30] <rharrison> David?
[11:30] <cuddykid> yep
[11:31] BuffaloSouljah (~alberto@2002:ad13:5efb:0:20c:76ff:fefb:b0e2) joined #highaltitude.
[11:31] <rharrison> Cool I'm hoping we can set up 5 dites accross the UK as this will releave the burden on the CAA to have to keep issuing NOTAMS
[11:31] <jonsowman> ping DanielRichman
[11:31] <rharrison> sites :)
[11:32] <jonsowman> that'd be neat
[11:32] <DanielRichman> hi
[11:32] <cuddykid> rharrison, thats a good idea! It does take a long time for them to process these notams! Mine took about 2 months!
[11:32] <DanielRichman> jonsowman:
[11:32] <rharrison> For an open ended one Yep it takes a far while
[11:32] <rharrison> fair
[11:32] <jonsowman> sec, PM. just wanted to talk about predictor on nessie
[11:34] <rharrison> I have applied for Elvington in York for 24/7 6 months NOTAM with the view to extending every 6 months for the forseable future. Limited to 15 launch days in any 6m period
[11:34] <rharrison> That is taking a bit of time to sort out
[11:34] <rharrison> Hi DanielRichman
[11:34] <jonsowman> I can imagine
[11:35] juxta_ (~blah@ppp118-210-145-231.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[11:35] <rharrison> But that basically puts York permanently on the HAB map assuming it eventually comes through.
[11:37] MoALTz (~no@ joined #highaltitude.
[11:37] <Upu> so question if cuddykid launches from Worchester or there abouts, and i'm in sunny Yorkshire is there some maths somewhere on what angle I point my Yagi at ? vertical not bearing,that I'm sure I can work out.
[11:38] <jonsowman> heh just swing it around until you hear it
[11:38] <Upu> lol
[11:38] <fsphil> rharrison, 5 sites?
[11:38] <Upu> oh that technical :)
[11:38] <Upu> Yes I vote for York too
[11:38] <jonsowman> Upu: really is
[11:39] <jonsowman> you could do some basic trig to work it out roughly, but there's not a lot of point
[11:39] <jonsowman> you'll find it easily enough
[11:39] <Randomskk> waving it is definitely easier than maths
[11:40] <cuddykid> Upu, I tracked for the 1st time last month and it was surprisingly easy! I was amazed how clear the signal was from cambridge launches here in worcester!
[11:40] <Upu> fair enough I think I'm ready to go just need to work out how to bolt the Yagi to the the top of a camera tripod
[11:41] <cuddykid> Upu, I had the same problem of bolting the yagi on! Mines just a hodgepodge now! managed to ram it on somehow lol
[11:41] <jonsowman> Upu: cable ties, gaffa tape
[11:41] <jonsowman> the usual.
[11:41] <DanielRichman> rharrison: do you mind if I remove the executable bit on all these .php files in the tracker?
[11:41] <rharrison> DanielRichman, sure :)
[11:41] <rharrison> chmod 666 *
[11:41] juxta_ (~blah@ppp118-210-145-231.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[11:41] <rharrison> I thought I did that
[11:41] <rharrison> 664 would probably do
[11:41] <jonsowman> man photoshop CS5 is nice
[11:41] <DanielRichman> 644 imo
[11:41] <jonsowman> :o
[11:42] <rharrison> ok
[11:42] <DanielRichman> or 664 if root:admin
[11:42] <Randomskk> or 640 if everything was nicely setup >.>
[11:42] <Randomskk> jonsowman: content aware fill amirite
[11:42] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yes :o
[11:42] <jonsowman> it's amazing
[11:42] <Randomskk> isn't it just
[11:42] <Upu> out of interest what was the first thing you tried with the content fill and be honest ?
[11:42] <jonsowman> less than £200 as well. I love being a student
[11:43] <Upu> or do I just work with a load of pervs ?
[11:43] <jonsowman> Upu: certainly not.
[11:43] <jonsowman> :P
[11:43] <rharrison> fsphil, 5 sites would cover most of the UK and should allow schools / HAB'er a reasonable location for launch
[11:43] <fsphil> cool -- I thought you where only after the one site
[11:44] <Randomskk> jonsowman: "less than £200"
[11:44] <Randomskk> it's still stupid money
[11:44] <jonsowman> I know
[11:44] <jonsowman> not my money though
[11:44] <rharrison> Wahts the content Fill stuff
[11:44] <DanielRichman> rharrison: which of the listener/ directories need to be writable by php?
[11:45] <rharrison> only listener/data
[11:45] <rharrison> There is a big clean up comming
[11:45] <rharrison> On;y about 4 php files needed
[11:45] <Randomskk> should really move data to sql (or nosql)
[11:45] <Randomskk> for another time
[11:45] <rharrison> I have moved XML files to docroot/payload_xml
[11:46] <Randomskk> I want to have a good play at doing a couchdb append only replicating database for storing telem strings
[11:46] <DanielRichman> right rharrison I'm just going on a security cleanup so I'm going to make data 664 root:www-data and disable php execution inside that directory; ok?
[11:46] <DanielRichman> *775
[11:46] <rharrison> data is the raw stuff that comes in. If it's reasonable it's logged into sql db
[11:46] <Randomskk> can we fix all the unescaped sql queries? :P
[11:46] <rharrison> Yep
[11:46] <Randomskk> rharrison: ah, got it.
[11:47] <rharrison> I'll have a clean this evenign in there and remove all the extrenuous files
[11:48] <jonsowman> Randomskk: do you think we should speak to Ed about moving the predictor to habhub?
[11:48] <jonsowman> or shall we Just Do It
[11:48] <rharrison> I think he is onbard with all tools going ther
[11:48] <rharrison> e
[11:48] <jonsowman> it's impractical is being on SRCF at the moment - keeps breaking due to quota
[11:48] <jonsowman> s/is/it/
[11:48] <fsphil> rharrison, is the listener code public?
[11:48] <Randomskk> Just Do It
[11:48] <rharrison> Just leave the existing stuff in place
[11:49] <jonsowman> Will do
[11:49] <jonsowman> :)
[11:49] <Randomskk> have cspaceflight/predict redirect to habhub
[11:49] <jonsowman> yea
[11:49] <rharrison> fsphil, I have promised to make it so at the end of the month as it needs a bit of cleaning
[11:50] <DanielRichman> default ’ (Extensions php AND (Directory /tracker OR (Directory /listener AND (NOT Directory /listener/data))))
[11:50] <Randomskk> tbh this is why php is so messy
[11:51] <Randomskk> the whole "code can sit around in webroot" crap
[11:51] <Randomskk> in an ideal world you'd have no php actually in the webroot, all of it a level or two above, with static files in the webroot and a single dispatcher script that takes the url string and passes it to the real php
[11:51] <DanielRichman> and the whole view = a file
[11:52] <Randomskk> I mean, you can do all that in php, all the frameworks support that kinda thing
[11:52] <Randomskk> but on the other hand most of the frameworks are overkill for the listener
[11:52] <Randomskk> it's the difference between a script and a web application imo
[11:54] <Randomskk> again this is my argument about php making it too easy to make things that are very messy, but on the other hand it does also make it very easy to just get a basic script running on a website
[11:54] <Randomskk> it's a having your cake and eating it too kind of situation
[11:57] <DanielRichman> is_php_executable.php: <?php echo '<'.'!--'; ?>No it isn't<!-- --><?php echo 'Yes it is'; ?>
[11:58] <Randomskk> why concat < and !--?
[11:58] <Randomskk> oh.
[11:58] <Randomskk> duh.
[11:58] <Randomskk> very neat. :P
[11:59] <DanielRichman> well chrome just downloads the php file to my ~ if it's not enabled but it works in some other cases
[11:59] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host217-43-152-55.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]
[11:59] <DanielRichman> some browsers will ignore everything between <?php and ?> which it relies on; but I believe some don't
[11:59] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host217-43-152-55.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:01] <GW8RAK> rjharrison - before I lost connection, I saw your post about 5 sites around the country. I've applied for one here in North Wales, west of the main airway, but have still to hear anything after a couple of months
[12:01] <rharrison> I think that is typical
[12:01] <rharrison> They are very busy this time of year at the CAA
[12:02] <rharrison> Idealy we will get together every one who has a site set up and see if we can create a sort of network for potential launchers
[12:02] <GW8RAK> The problem here is that we are very close to Liverpool and Manchester and the transAtlantic routes.
[12:03] <rharrison> Yep not a good long term position
[12:03] <GW8RAK> West of here, it is mostly clear, while it is a long way East to find similar clear airspace
[12:04] <GW8RAK> Hopefully a nice north to south flight path would be good.
[12:04] <rharrison> Yep that is quite common
[12:09] <GW8RAK> Still working on the project, but it's been a bit slow during the summer holiday period.
[12:14] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Read error: Network is unreachable
[12:15] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:16] <GW8RAK> Website up and running at www.projectdaedalus.wordpress.com
[12:18] Guest1520790 (~smealum@ joined #highaltitude.
[12:23] <m1x10> dedalos :)
[12:24] <GW8RAK> ?
[12:25] <m1x10> ikaros-dedalos
[12:25] <m1x10> :)
[12:26] <GW8RAK> Just different spelling. Daedalus or dedalos indeed.
[12:26] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[12:27] <m1x10> :p
[12:29] <m1x10> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icarus
[12:30] <m1x10> so you are parental mission of icarus :P
[12:35] <jonsowman> Randomskk: ping
[12:35] <jonsowman> Randomskk: can you remember what things we changed when deploying the predictor on srcf?
[12:35] <jonsowman> something's not quite right and I can't work out what at the moment
[12:35] <GW8RAK> mlx10 - I wouldn't put it that way.
[12:36] <Randomskk> I don't think we had to change anything in particular
[12:36] <Randomskk> what's not working
[12:37] <jonsowman> when running from web UI it's not writing the json
[12:37] <Randomskk> permissions probably
[12:37] <jonsowman> running with sudo -u www-data works OK though
[12:37] Jasperw (~jasperw@ joined #highaltitude.
[12:37] <Randomskk> still probably permissions
[12:37] <m1x10> GW8RAK, im just making fun :)
[12:38] <Randomskk> make sure the directory exists and paths are correct and all that
[12:38] <GW8RAK> No problems :)
[12:38] <Randomskk> and that the entire tree of permissions up to that folder is corret
[12:38] <Randomskk> correct
[12:38] <m1x10> Randomskk i think u wrote the last 3 sentences too fast
[12:38] <m1x10> u drink something?
[12:38] <m1x10> haha
[12:39] <Randomskk> sorry?
[12:39] <m1x10> lol
[12:39] <m1x10> nothing
[12:53] <Randomskk> cry, php libraries
[12:53] <Randomskk> "drawTreshold"
[12:54] <Randomskk> treshold is not a word
[12:54] <jonsowman> :D
[12:54] <jonsowman> oh dear
[13:02] <jonsowman> predictor moved to habhub
[13:02] <jonsowman> cuspaceflight.co.uk/predict redirects to habhub
[13:05] <fsphil> seems to be working perfectly
[13:06] <Upu> is that particularly CPU intensive ?
[13:06] <jonsowman> Upu: hardly anything
[13:07] <Randomskk> disk space more than anything for all the gribs
[13:07] <Randomskk> jonsowman: hourly?
[13:07] <Upu> ok
[13:07] <Randomskk> also I like the new infoboxes on the links
[13:07] <Randomskk> very snazzy
[13:07] <Upu> yeah looks great
[13:07] <jonsowman> I thought they might be helpful to explain how to use the cookie location save thing
[13:08] <jonsowman> Yeah.. are we going to run the hourly on nessie?
[13:08] <jonsowman> That's pretty CPU intensive and bandwidth intensive
[13:08] <Randomskk> not cpu
[13:08] <jonsowman> really? I thought it was significant
[13:08] <Upu> shouldn't be an issue with bandwidth
[13:09] <jonsowman> from running it on my vps
[13:09] <Randomskk> it's like, 120 predictions
[13:09] <jonsowman> True
[13:09] <Randomskk> none take very long really
[13:09] <Upu> CPU wise you have dual 3.2 Xeons...
[13:09] <Randomskk> yea, be sure to use the python script that runs them in parallel
[13:09] <jonsowman> yeah
[13:11] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: where does cronjob output get sent to on nessie?
[13:15] juxta_ (~blah@ppp118-210-145-231.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[13:22] juxta_ (~blah@ppp118-210-145-231.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[13:30] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[13:33] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[13:35] Guest1520790 (~smealum@ left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[13:42] <DanielRichman> jonsowman: I thought cronjob output was mailed to root, atleast on the last version of cron that I actually had to use
[13:42] <DanielRichman> but I haven't tried it on nessie
[13:43] <jonsowman> ok
[13:43] <DanielRichman> just queue up an echo Hi or something; people love the spam
[13:44] <DanielRichman> PS: when we end up writing some sort of mission control for habhub (listing flights etc) then perahps griffonbot can use that info to automatically update #highaltitude 's topic
[13:45] <jonsowman> that'd be neat
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> it's mailed to the owning user IIRC
[13:48] <SpeedEvil> users can setup their own cronjobs, and having them able to spam root would be annoying
[13:49] <Randomskk> not that it's hard to spam root
[13:49] <Randomskk> /usr/bin/games/banner "HELLO, ROOT" | mail root
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> Sure
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> but not so easy accidentally
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> as a screwed up cronjob would
[13:50] <Randomskk> :P true
[13:52] <fsphil> done that a few times
[14:05] alikins_ (~adrian@cpe-066-057-101-225.nc.res.rr.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:12] cuddykid (~acudworth@ left irc: Quit: cuddykid
[14:22] cuddykid (~acudworth@ joined #highaltitude.
[14:37] kerblammo (~dom@213138152225.edelkey.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[14:55] spacefelix_ (809e01a4@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[14:55] <spacefelix_> Hello again.
[14:55] <jonsowman> hi spacefelix_
[14:56] <spacefelix_> Who here works on the N-Prize?
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> There are a couple of people interested with paper designs.
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> Id on't think anyone has actually bent any hardware.
[14:56] <spacefelix_> Mmm.
[15:10] rharrison (~rharrison@gateway.hgf.com) left irc: Disconnected by services
[15:10] rharrison_ (~rharrison@gateway.hgf.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:13] SpikeUK (~chatzilla@host81-136-134-46.in-addr.btopenworld.com) left irc: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]
[15:26] gb73d (~gb73d@79-79-158-148.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:42] MoALTz (~no@ left irc: Quit: Leaving
[15:56] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[16:06] DrLuke (~luke@pD951BBD3.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:08] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host217-43-152-55.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]
[16:54] ejcweb (~chatzilla@ joined #highaltitude.
[17:07] spacefelix_ (809e01a4@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc:
[17:09] gb73d (~gb73d@79-79-158-148.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) left irc: Quit: Whoosh we're gone
[17:19] ejcweb (~chatzilla@ left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[17:28] Hualon (~Hualon@rrcs-24-199-154-50.midsouth.biz.rr.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:34] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Ordered the replacement PCB for the UltraLight flight computer and components. I'll begin an article shortly for N&V. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/22102235644]
[17:44] rharrison_ (~rharrison@gateway.hgf.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[17:48] ejcweb (~chatzilla@ joined #highaltitude.
[17:49] Hualon (Hualon@rrcs-24-199-154-50.midsouth.biz.rr.com) left #highaltitude.
[18:03] ejcweb (~chatzilla@ left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[18:14] BuffaloSouljah (~alberto@2002:ad13:5efb:0:20c:76ff:fefb:b0e2) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out
[18:14] kerblammo (~dom@a85-156-232-115.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #highaltitude.
[18:26] ejcweb (~chatzilla@ joined #highaltitude.
[18:39] <fsphil> radio conditions must be good atm, I'm getting german voices on my pmr radio
[18:39] <jonsowman> or there are some germans nearby :o
[18:41] <fsphil> true too
[18:41] <fsphil> it's fading in and out though
[18:46] ejcweb (~chatzilla@ left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[18:48] <fsphil> oooh getting telly on 54.45 mhz
[18:55] kerblammo (~dom@a85-156-232-115.elisa-laajakaista.fi) left irc: Quit: kerblammo
[18:56] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@ joined #highaltitude.
[19:08] RocketBoy (~steverand@ joined #highaltitude.
[19:17] natrium42 (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:32] RocketBoy (~steverand@ left irc: Quit: RocketBoy
[19:36] RocketBoy (~steverand@ joined #highaltitude.
[19:48] ejcweb (~chatzilla@ joined #highaltitude.
[19:49] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[19:52] ejcweb (~chatzilla@ left irc: Client Quit
[19:59] BuffaloSouljah (~alberto@2002:ad13:5efb:0:20c:76ff:fefb:b0e2) joined #highaltitude.
[20:07] jasonb_ (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:08] jasonb (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[20:10] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@ left irc: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]
[20:11] <Upu> There we go who needs gaffer tape when you have bits of wood and metal lying about : http://ava.upuaut.net/files/IMG_0101.JPG :)
[20:13] <DanielRichman> Is that a yagi-to-camera tripod adaptor?
[20:13] <Upu> yep
[20:13] <Randomskk> home
[20:14] <DanielRichman> nice
[20:14] <Upu> almost even solid
[20:14] <Randomskk> allow leaving work at 1930 and then driving for half an hour in pouring rain
[20:14] <Upu> and it unclips quickly, the tripod quick release still works
[20:14] <Upu> sounds fun Randomskk
[20:14] <Randomskk> :P
[20:14] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/IMG_0102.JPG
[20:14] <Upu> so just need someone to launch now
[20:32] RocketBoy (steverand@ left #highaltitude.
[20:58] Laurenceb (~laurence@host86-137-224-95.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:58] <fsphil> very nice, much better than my cable tie attempt
[20:58] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: my bmp -> gerber conversion idea failed :(
[20:58] <Randomskk> :(
[20:59] <Laurenceb> img2cad sucks at polygon generation
[20:59] <Laurenceb> looks like cadstar has this feature built in
[20:59] <fsphil> btw, in that picture the main element of the antenna is really close to the first director element -- any ideas why?
[20:59] <Laurenceb> but thats about the most expensive pcb software around
[20:59] <Randomskk> kicad?
[21:00] <Laurenceb> nope
[21:00] <Laurenceb> of course there is the option of writing the code yourself
[21:00] <Laurenceb> its not that hard... think i have an algorithm worked out
[21:00] <Randomskk> http://kicad.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
[21:00] <Randomskk> Bitmap2kicad
[21:00] <Laurenceb> kicad is very well documented
[21:01] <Laurenceb> think i prefer it to geda
[21:01] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[21:01] <Laurenceb> due to good documentation and sensible organisation, which counts for a lot
[21:01] ejcweb (~chatzilla@ joined #highaltitude.
[21:03] <Upu> hey fsphil
[21:03] <Upu> not sure it's the only place it goes
[21:03] <Upu> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/a430s10r-diamond-430440mhz-70cm-yagi-p-3962.html?osCsid=64f1baa3b074168a3500e80dac6c693a
[21:03] <fsphil> yea -- I actually thought I had it on backwards
[21:04] <fsphil> it can go on the other way, but all the pics have it that way
[21:04] <Upu> same on their picture
[21:04] <Upu> have I got it on correct ?
[21:04] <fsphil> you've got it on the same way I have, and everyone else too so it must be
[21:04] <fsphil> *shrugs* :)
[21:05] <fsphil> not the only one: http://users.skynet.be/myspace/media/yagi%2070cm%20%283%29.jpg
[21:05] <fsphil> weird
[21:05] <Laurenceb> bitmap2kicad might just be like the equivalent ulp on eagle
[21:05] <Laurenceb> not a polygon generator
[21:05] <Upu> there is a locating pin on that Yagi so you can't actually get it on the wrong side I think
[21:07] BuffaloSouljah (~alberto@2002:ad13:5efb:0:20c:76ff:fefb:b0e2) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[21:11] cuddykid (~acudworth@ left irc: Quit: cuddykid
[21:12] cuddykid (~acudworth@ joined #highaltitude.
[21:16] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp089210187222.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: Quit: I eat electrons for breakfast and I vomit thunders
[21:21] ejcweb_ (~chatzilla@ joined #highaltitude.
[21:22] ejcweb (~chatzilla@ left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[21:22] Nick change: ejcweb_ -> ejcweb
[21:31] ejcweb (~chatzilla@ left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[21:36] Jasperw (~jasperw@ left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[21:48] <Randomskk> hmm. I'm not entirely convinced by any of the nosql datastores I've looked at
[21:49] <Randomskk> what we want is a peer to peer mesh topology distributed append only datastore
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> that is theoretically impossible, unless you have some guarantees
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> for example, only one committer
[21:51] <Randomskk> we don't need to maintain append order
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> If you're happy with stuff ending up in random order, then yes, it can be done
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> Though no, I don't happen to know of any suitable software.
[21:52] <Randomskk> we have lots of people out and about with various levels of reliable internet
[21:53] <Randomskk> several people at home with reliable internet who want data
[21:53] <Randomskk> a few servers hosting pretty interfaces for people, which have no radios but great internet and big disks
[21:54] <Randomskk> what would be especially nice would be some form of automated replication over everyone without needing to have a 'master'
[21:54] <Randomskk> the p2p distributed part
[21:54] <Randomskk> traditional sql databases go right out there as they have silly complicated replication
[21:55] <Randomskk> redis and couchdb both have pretty simple replication and could work, but aren't quite designed for that
[21:55] <Randomskk> couchdb's better than redis at that though and seems a fairly likely contender
[21:55] <Randomskk> cassandra looks interesting
[21:56] <Randomskk> java though, :(
[21:57] <Randomskk> mongodb's replication doesn't appear suitable
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> what's this to store?
[21:57] <Randomskk> telem logs
[21:57] <Randomskk> instead of having every listener try to upload them to the central server and that be the sole place for them
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[21:58] <Randomskk> it's data we're likely to get multiple copies of, but never need to update later
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> #highaltitude-tracker and a logbot.
[21:58] <Randomskk> doesn't help the lack of internet connectivity on client side
[21:58] <Randomskk> a proper database clientside is nice for that
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[21:59] <Randomskk> also allows internetless clients to still have maps, tracking, et cetera based on what they can hear
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> Seems to me you don't really want one database.
[21:59] <Randomskk> and equally if multiple networked internetless clients are together, they can inter-replicate
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> You want as many databases as listeners, and some way to replicate them
[21:59] <Randomskk> yes
[21:59] <Randomskk> exactly - a database running on everyone's computer, and automatic distributed replication
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> So each listener is authoritative for their own DB
[22:00] <Randomskk> e.g. if I'm out chasing with someone else, we both have radios and pick up different strings, have no internet but are ad-hoc'd wifi'd together
[22:00] Action: SpeedEvil wonders about rsync
[22:00] <Randomskk> it'd be nice to replicate to each other so we get as much data as we've collected on both machines
[22:00] <Randomskk> there won't be conflicts - if you have the exact same string, you can drop it (or keep it to increase confidence in that version compared to other similar ones for the same packet)
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Simple flat file per user. Only you ever write to your file.
[22:00] <Randomskk> you don't ever update historic data
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> you then rsync a database saying 'newer files only'
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> where database is just a collection of the flat files
[22:01] <Randomskk> using files seems like a step backwards in terms of how easy they are to access, search, load into applications, etc
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> In some ways.
[22:01] <Randomskk> and if everyone has their own file, we end up with loads of separate files that contain similar data and no trivial way to get data from all of them at once
[22:02] <Randomskk> cassanda looks a bit interesting
[22:02] <Randomskk> also amazon's dynamo
[22:09] <Randomskk> http://www.allthingsdistributed.com/2007/10/amazons_dynamo.html
[22:10] <Randomskk> The Bayou project at Xerox PARC has been designing a system to support data sharing among mobile users. The system is intended to run in a mobile computing environment that includes portable machines with less than ideal network connectivity.
[22:10] <Randomskk> http://www2.parc.com/csl/projects/bayou/pubs/ba-mcw-94/www/MobileWorkshop_1.html
[22:11] <Randomskk> http://oceanstore.cs.berkeley.edu/ also interesting
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> Yup.
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> I tend to not bother learning new stuff if I can do it with my old tools with acceptable performance.
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> Which leads to:
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> highlen=chr[substr(ORT,1,1)]
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> lowlen=chr[substr(ORT,2,1)]
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> clen=highlen*256+lowlen
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> ORT=RT
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> And stuff like that in awk.
[22:23] <Randomskk> :P
[22:25] alikins_ (~adrian@cpe-066-057-101-225.nc.res.rr.com) left irc: Quit: alikins_
[22:26] alikins_ (~adrian@cpe-066-057-101-225.nc.res.rr.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:30] <Randomskk> if we used a key:value datastore, I wonder what the key would be
[22:30] <Randomskk> I guess a UUID would work
[22:30] <Randomskk> microseconds would probably be more efficient
[22:30] <Randomskk> if you get a conflict just keep adding a microsecond until it goes into the datastore
[22:34] <Randomskk> cassandra and many of its ilk appear to mostly do replication by config file though
[22:34] <Randomskk> couchdb is better at that
[22:34] <Randomskk> in that you just hit a url and it does replication
[22:34] <Randomskk> and doesn't persist them over a reboot
[22:35] <Randomskk> but that means users have to say who to replicate to, unless there's some other layer we build on top
[22:35] <Randomskk> voldemort is another option
[22:37] <jonsowman> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10668231
[22:37] <jonsowman> :(
[22:37] <Randomskk> :P all the more reason to move on to hydrogen
[22:37] <jonsowman> hehe
[22:37] <Randomskk> I imagine there will always be enough helium for cooling stuff
[22:37] <Randomskk> as for the millions of children, though
[22:37] <Randomskk> well, just use hydrogen? :P
[22:38] <Randomskk> I wonder what else our datastore needs to do
[22:38] <Randomskk> every client does not want all the data
[22:38] <Randomskk> but some clients will want all the data
[22:38] <Randomskk> so I guess you want a config option of how much of the data you want
[22:38] <Randomskk> from 'all' to 'today\'s'
[22:38] <Randomskk> I should have maybe said "today's" but it was too late by then
[22:39] <Randomskk> thing is as well, what if there's a fuckon of data today
[22:39] <Randomskk> you might want "today's and payload is apex"
[22:39] <jonsowman> yeah
[22:39] <Randomskk> equally you might be on a highly priced internet connection and not want to upload much data
[22:39] <Randomskk> so "upload none" or "upload freely" or "upload slowly"
[22:39] <Randomskk> none of the databases I've seen take that into account at all
[22:40] <Randomskk> they are essentially all designed for sitting on a lan
[22:40] <jonsowman> good point
[22:40] <jonsowman> yea
[22:40] <Randomskk> I'm starting to think this either needs 1) a less distributed idea, e.g. just have clients buffer for a bit then send when they can to one big central database we keep and back up now and again
[22:40] <Randomskk> 2) a custom datastore we write ourselves
[22:40] <Randomskk> I'm not convinced couchdb is entirely fit for purpose
[22:41] <Randomskk> should speak to ed sometime
[22:41] <jonsowman> Yeah where has he got to
[22:41] <jonsowman> run off to Aus whilst we weren't looking I expect
[22:41] <Randomskk> distributed hash tables are another potential concept
[22:41] <Randomskk> yes, I imagine so
[22:41] <jonsowman> that was when nessie was rebooted
[22:41] <Randomskk> ah
[22:41] <Randomskk> and he hasn't been back since eh
[22:41] <jonsowman> seems not
[22:42] <Randomskk> we could do with some decent collab tools for all this crap too
[22:42] <Randomskk> google docs? wave? dunno
[22:43] <jonsowman> I agree with the principle
[22:43] <jonsowman> not sure on tool
[22:43] <Upu> Exchange 2010 ? :)
[22:43] <jonsowman> yesterday was the first time I've used wave
[22:43] <jonsowman> I wasn't aware it was still around to be honest
[22:43] <jonsowman> Remember hearing about it long ago
[22:44] <LazyLeopard> Closing down soon, isn't it?
[22:44] <jonsowman> Oh?
[22:44] <jonsowman> Let's not use that then.
[22:45] <Randomskk> yea, it is
[22:45] BuffaloSouljah (~alberto@2002:ad13:5efb:0:20c:76ff:fefb:b0e2) joined #highaltitude.
[22:45] <Randomskk> I liked etherpad, before google bought it
[22:45] <Randomskk> we could host our own, though - they open sourced it before shutting it down
[22:45] <earthshine> Hello
[22:45] <jonsowman> Idea
[22:45] <jonsowman> that might work...
[22:45] <jonsowman> or docs I guess
[22:45] <Upu> hi earthshine
[22:46] <jonsowman> hi earthshine
[22:46] <LazyLeopard> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10877768
[22:46] <Randomskk> "Google is waving goodbye to Wave"
[22:46] <Randomskk> honestly, BBC
[22:46] <jonsowman> oh dear
[22:46] <Randomskk> that is poor
[22:46] <jonsowman> that's appalling
[22:47] <LazyLeopard> Not quite as final as it was spun, I think...
[22:47] <Upu> I bet some hack was really pleased with that :)
[22:47] <jonsowman> Upu: ha
[22:47] <LazyLeopard> Upu: Very probably.
[22:47] <Upu> jsut say it with a Chris Morris Brass Eye voice
[22:47] <Randomskk> I have a little diagram now with servers, desktop, laptops and phones and they are Talking To Each Other
[22:47] <Randomskk> with an Internet cloud ofc
[22:48] <Randomskk> apparently google docs supports multiuser editing just like etherpad used to
[22:48] <jonsowman> Is it pretty?
[22:49] <Randomskk> google docs?
[22:49] <jonsowman> The diagram
[22:49] <Randomskk> not very. it's in my new notebook, old one ran out
[22:49] <Randomskk> but the new one is not as good as my old notebook
[22:49] <jonsowman> D:
[22:49] <Randomskk> will be picking up a new one of my old notebook start of term I think
[22:50] <Randomskk> I grew to like that coloured thing
[22:50] <jonsowman> Hehe
[22:50] <Randomskk> still haven't found any more of my plain ones though. silly smiths
[22:50] <jonsowman> Back to systematic and worryingly effective destruction of trees
[22:50] <Randomskk> are you typing on a phone with autocaps or are you starting to use shift more?
[22:50] <Randomskk> and yes, quite
[22:50] <jonsowman> Both
[22:51] <jonsowman> i'm testing a new iSSH
[22:51] <Randomskk> oh, cool
[22:51] <jonsowman> but I have started capitalising a bit on computer, not entirely sure why
[22:52] <jonsowman> been writing emails to Ricardo and SGS in which I capitalise and I think it's stuck a bit
[22:52] <Randomskk> fair enough I guess
[22:52] <DanielRichman> jonsowman: ed has been back since nessie rebooted
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: key could simply be second.UID
[22:52] <DanielRichman> last quit 3 days ago; rebooted 4 days ago. iirc he has bash in screen running and nothing else
[22:52] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: how do you find UID though
[22:52] <Randomskk> if it's distributed
[22:53] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: oh OK, sorry
[22:53] <Randomskk> I think keying by time is probably a good idea though, allows for easy slicing
[22:53] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: any thoughts on this data storage lark?
[22:54] <Randomskk> or in particular thoughts on whether I'm overthinking it and we should just use mysql and a bigass table with an indexed datetime column and have everyone POST to it when they get data
[22:54] <jonsowman> i'm sure mysql would cope
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> You know your UID
[22:55] <Randomskk> jonsowman: not in the long run it wouldn't
[22:55] <Randomskk> but yes, it would cope
[22:55] <Randomskk> but it doesn't provide us with anything cool, new or exciting
[22:55] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: oh, user ID?
[22:55] <DanielRichman> I think that we should have a spec for adding data to the system (from fldigi or other source, webpage, decoder, etc.) that is independent of the database used. Listeners should only need the local db if they want. If they do want, and they install a local listener+tracker VM or similar then couchdb replication does sound nice. I haven't looked into it but having the option to replicate to whoever you want (your wifi
[22:55] <DanielRichman> Otherwise they just use the spec to http post data to habhub
[22:55] <DanielRichman> (or other)
[22:55] <Randomskk> yes
[22:56] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) left irc:
[22:56] <Randomskk> definitely, we don't want to force databases on people needlessly or anything
[22:56] <jonsowman> true about cool/new/exciting/all of the above
[22:56] <Randomskk> though like
[22:56] <Randomskk> if we had a small database, using that and having it autoreplicate up to habhub might be better than POSTing
[22:56] <DanielRichman> we don't exactly need a database; SpeedEvil is right. It's append only; we're not even going to be editing the records
[22:56] <Randomskk> easier to code, client-side: just have fldigi dump strings into it
[22:56] <Randomskk> and handles network losses easier
[22:57] <DanielRichman> a flat file for each user which is copied to all other users is the easiest way of thinking about it
[22:57] <Randomskk> I'm not convinced by actually using flat files in terms of searching, indexing, accessing, making accessible, replicating or scaling
[22:57] <DanielRichman> Right sure, but as far as the replication part goes, that's as simple as it has to be
[22:57] <Randomskk> it's definitely append only, so we can look to make a lot of optimisation
[22:57] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: well, it's not, it's messy and complicated
[22:58] <Randomskk> who stores who's database?
[22:58] <Randomskk> does everyone upload their text file to the central server?
[22:58] <Randomskk> do all clients download everyone's text files?
[22:58] <Randomskk> what about compression?
[22:58] <Randomskk> how do we index on time?
[22:58] <Randomskk> what if I want all of this payload's data, not all of this user's data? we need to open each file and walk it to get all the payload data
[22:59] <Randomskk> how do we associate a user with a file? how do we know the person now claiming to be M0RND is the same person who originally sent us a file as M0RND?
[22:59] <Randomskk> was my grammar correct on "who stores who's database?"? I'm not even sure there
[22:59] <Randomskk> but anyway flat files are not a great solution here
[22:59] <jonsowman> *whose
[22:59] <Randomskk> definitely huh?
[22:59] <Randomskk> I was tempted by whose
[23:00] <Randomskk> yes
[23:00] <Randomskk> it is whose, you are quite right
[23:00] <DanielRichman> yeah I'm not sure about that apostrophe
[23:00] <Randomskk> who's is only ever "who is"
[23:00] <Randomskk> whose is the possessive
[23:00] <jonsowman> yea
[23:00] <DanielRichman> I think we need to split this into the problems we need to solve;
[23:01] <DanielRichman> ie listener: limited internet connectivity and collecting potentially dodgey data about one thing from a large number of people
[23:01] <DanielRichman> and tracker: doing something with it
[23:01] <Randomskk> both want the same data store though
[23:01] <DanielRichman> they can be- as they currently are - different databases
[23:01] <Randomskk> needlessly
[23:01] <Randomskk> we might want other sources and sinks
[23:01] <DanielRichman> not necessarily. Different databases for different uses
[23:02] <Randomskk> they are only superficially different
[23:02] <Randomskk> both are just a mysql table
[23:02] <DanielRichman> what, currently?
[23:02] <DanielRichman> I thought the listener was just a flat file
[23:02] <Randomskk> the flat file is a log/backup
[23:02] <Randomskk> shows everything sent to it
[23:02] <DanielRichman> ah, OK
[23:02] <Randomskk> everything that is parsed as valid telem is put in mysql
[23:02] <jonsowman> oh
[23:02] <Randomskk> and fetched by the listener into its db
[23:02] <Randomskk> I'm told
[23:02] <jonsowman> I was under the same impression as DanielRichman
[23:03] <jonsowman> i stand corrected
[23:03] <Randomskk> I thought that too
[23:03] <Randomskk> then rjharrison corrected me last night
[23:03] <Randomskk> I haven't actually looked at any code though
[23:03] <DanielRichman> grep -R is
[23:03] <Randomskk> brb picking people up from train station
[23:04] <DanielRichman> *grep -R is not going to answer this question; it's going to make it more confusing
[23:04] <DanielRichman> I'd be tempted to conclude that mysql is only used in the listener to maintain the list of loggers
[23:04] <DanielRichman> but I'm not sure
[23:05] <Randomskk> hmm a list of currently active receivers is another thing we want
[23:05] <Randomskk> interesting, I wonder how we combine the two issues
[23:05] <Randomskk> brb
[23:08] GeekShad0w (~Antoine@208.136.195-77.rev.gaoland.net) joined #highaltitude.
[23:09] Wild-Wing (~chatzilla@c-24-34-60-55.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[23:11] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[23:11] cuddykid (~acudworth@ left irc: Quit: cuddykid
[23:13] DrLuke (~luke@pD951BBD3.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[23:31] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[00:00] --- Thu Aug 26 2010