highaltitude.log.20100823

[00:00] <Randomskk> I really should have the email notification script wait for like, a minute, then send context around the highlight
[00:00] <Randomskk> anyway bed
[00:20] <earthshine> On the met office weather maps - is the pressure shown for sea level ?
[00:20] <LazyLeopard> Should be...
[00:21] <earthshine> My pressure sensor is always about 8hPa below that shown by the met office
[00:21] <earthshine> I guess it is due to the elevation (about 81m)
[00:21] <jonsowman> earthshine: what sensor?
[00:22] <earthshine> SCP1000
[00:22] <jonsowman> hmm ok
[00:22] <earthshine> sound wrong?
[00:22] <jonsowman> is it pre-calibrated and you just read the digital value from the sensor?
[00:23] <earthshine> yeah
[00:23] <earthshine> using SPI
[00:24] <jonsowman> should be alright then, unless the calibration is off
[00:24] <jonsowman> its always 8mb below?
[00:24] <earthshine> pretty much
[00:24] <jonsowman> interesting
[00:24] <earthshine> i'm 81 metres above sea level
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[00:24] <jonsowman> got access to a "real" barometer?
[00:24] <earthshine> Nope
[00:25] <earthshine> I have a barometer in my Garmin GPS though
[00:25] <earthshine> it is close
[00:25] <earthshine> though no idea how accurate it is
[00:26] <jonsowman> I've not used that sensor so I don't know if they're normally accurate from their OEM calibration
[00:27] <earthshine> they are supposed to be very accurate
[00:27] <jonsowman> you comparing to met office data?
[00:27] <earthshine> yep - closest measurement station
[00:27] <jonsowman> have you tried BBC?
[00:28] <jonsowman> I know BBC data is ground-level
[00:28] <jonsowman> not sure if met office is - I assume it would be as getting pressure data for below ground level would be useless and difficult/impossible
[00:30] <jonsowman> better be off - night all
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[08:59] <Upu> morning
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[10:55] <m1x10> hi, any link for WB8ELK pictures
[10:55] <m1x10> ?
[10:59] <fsphil> Second request for notam sent to the CAA, hoping this one is processed in time!
[11:01] <jonsowman> heh good luck
[11:01] <jonsowman> when for fsphil?
[11:02] <fsphil> Last week of september .. just over the 28 days the caa require, so it's a bit iffy
[11:03] <jonsowman> ah right
[11:04] <jonsowman> have you tried phoning/
[11:04] <jonsowman> ?
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[11:05] <fsphil> not yet
[11:06] <fsphil> good idea though, I might phone them later today if I haven't got a reply
[11:07] <jonsowman> yeh you might as well
[11:07] <jonsowman> he's friendly enough
[11:08] <jonsowman> http://hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict/admin.php
[11:08] <jonsowman> hehe :)
[11:11] <fsphil> cool!
[11:11] <fsphil> A few of mine are in there
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[11:15] <jonsowman> just lists the most recent predictions
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[11:15] <jonsowman> for debugging and stuff
[11:18] <fsphil> http://github.com/jonsowman/cusf-standalone-predictor <-- is the latest version of the hourly predictor?
[11:19] <jonsowman> nope
[11:19] <jonsowman> http://github.com/rjw57/cusf-landing-prediction
[11:19] <jonsowman> is the hourly
[11:19] <fsphil> ah thanks
[11:26] <fsphil> no errors, woo
[11:30] <jonsowman> :)
[11:37] <fsphil> is wgrib2 still necessary?
[11:37] <jonsowman> where is that info from?
[11:37] <fsphil> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/wiki/doku.php?id=prediction
[11:38] <jonsowman> oh that hasn't been updated in years
[11:38] Action: jonsowman hides
[11:38] <jonsowman> but to answer your question - no
[11:38] <fsphil> :p
[11:38] <jonsowman> just clone that repo and that's all you need
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[15:07] <juxta> ping rharrison_
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[15:12] <Hualon> Yo! We had our first launch yesterday and it went pretty well. http://animoto.com/play/1tmgAR8C0UcwVHHho99biA
[15:13] <juxta> hi Hualon - congrats :)
[15:13] <juxta> where did you launch from?
[15:15] <Hualon> juxta: North Carolina, USA (tracking link: http://bit.ly/ncnearspace-take2)
[15:15] <juxta> good work :)
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> Congrats.
[15:16] <juxta> do you have a writeup of the gear used somewhere?
[15:16] <fsphil> excellent
[15:16] <fsphil> did the spot work throughout the flight?
[15:17] <juxta> I used a spot on my first flight (as a backup), looks like you got better results than I did - the updates from mine were too infrequent
[15:17] <Hualon> fsphil: mostly. We lost telemetry (estimating) around 65,000 ft. We got updates about every 10-15 minutes
[15:17] <Hualon> juxta: it was handy to track it from the iPhone!
[15:18] <juxta> hehe
[15:22] <Hualon> juxta: all we have is the discussion forum we started. http://techshoprdu.com/forum/9
[15:28] <m1x10> Hualon, congrats. Any technical details?
[15:29] <Hualon> m1x10: we estimate about 90k feet, 3 hour travel time, just under 4lbs payload
[15:33] <earthshine> Howdy
[15:34] <m1x10> what about telemetry system? gps? kind of batteries?
[15:34] <philihp> Hualon, looks awesome! i meant to come out and watch but couldn't make it :)
[15:35] <Hualon> philihp: Thanks! We had a BLAST.
[15:35] <philihp> any plans for another anytime soon?
[15:35] <Hualon> earthshine: howdy!
[15:36] <Hualon> m1x10: telemetry was a Spot GPS Personal Tracker. It has a cell-tower assisted GPS beacon mode that relays to the Internet every 10 minutes
[15:36] <Hualon> YAY for off-the-shelf components!
[15:36] <philihp> cool, totally off the shelf?
[15:41] <Hualon> philihp: for that launch, yes. The first (failed) launch had APRS which failed almost immediately
[15:42] <philihp> that sucks
[15:44] <LA3QMA> do SPOT have a cell gadget? i have the version using Globalstar sattelitte
[15:44] <Hualon> philihp: Yeah, we were really disappointed. Not sure what happened to the APRS system.
[15:45] <Hualon> LA3QMA: I don't think they do. I misunderstood how it worked before.
[15:45] <alikins> we got what, one packet from the APRS setup?
[15:45] <LA3QMA> ahh ok. have used it on a winter tent trip
[15:45] <LA3QMA> no coverage of anything other than sattelitte
[15:45] <Hualon> alikins: yeah, one or two APRS packets
[15:46] <LA3QMA> alikins: what callsign?
[15:47] <m1x10> hi LA3QMA
[15:47] <LA3QMA> m1x10: :o)
[15:47] <m1x10> hehe
[15:47] <lovelace> alikins: We got 3 packets, none of which got igated. :-(
[15:47] <lovelace> LA3QMA: We were using the callsign KB4TYE-11
[15:47] <Hualon> lovelace: Yo! Congratulations!
[15:47] <Hualon> I'm totally stoked (as you can tell!)
[15:48] <lovelace> Hualon: Thanks. :-) Did you see the pictures?
[15:48] <lovelace> http://www.flickr.com/photos/clubjuggler/sets/72157624786512244/
[15:48] <Hualon> lovelace: Yeah! Did you see the montage? http://animoto.com/play/1tmgAR8C0UcwVHHho99biA
[15:48] <lovelace> Hualon: I did. :-)
[15:48] <Hualon> lovelace: I'm working on getting my Spot activated so we can go for launch 3!
[15:48] <alikins> Three is almost taunting. "I'm working. Here's another. And one more, sleep now."
[15:48] <LA3QMA> lovelace: ok most likely the path and how often the beacons are going that "killed" it. or did the tracker stop xmitting?
[15:49] <lovelace> LA3QMA: Unknown. It could have been a connection that came loose, or it could have been that the radio was over 30 years old (an Icom 2AT).
[15:50] <Hualon> lovelace: 30 isn't so old! (Today's my 30th b-day! LOL)
[15:50] <Hualon> That's why I wanted to write "Happy Birthday" on the balloon. LOL!
[15:50] <LA3QMA> ahh ok. balloons always make a hot topic regarding what path to use and how often to send beacon hehe
[15:50] <lovelace> Hualon: Congratulations! :-)
[15:51] <lovelace> LA3QMA: Yeah, I debated about that. We set the path to WIDE2-2 and to beacon every minute.
[15:51] <Hualon> lovelace: Thanks. BTW, I submitted the video, pics, and site to my friends at Make magazine. Hopefully we'll get a blog post about it.
[15:51] <LA3QMA> lovelace: hehe thats an ok setting. it's the WIDE1-1 thats bad
[15:51] <LA3QMA> i would use a switching profile depending on altitude etc
[15:52] <LA3QMA> or just send one packedt with no path and one with WIDE2-2
[15:52] <lovelace> LA3QMA: Thought about that too, but decided to keep it simple.
[15:52] <LA3QMA> simple is always better :o)
[15:52] <lovelace> Need to figure out what to do for our next launch. Will probably look for an integrated tracker/radio
[15:54] <Hualon> lovelace: Yeah, it would be sweet to have real-time info in addition to the Spot. I like the Spot but it makes me nervous for anything except final recovery
[15:54] <Hualon> although it did perform remarkably well for tracking
[15:55] <lovelace> Hualon: Indeed. I'm seriously thinking of getting one now too. How much was the one you got?
[15:55] <LA3QMA> hehe does the spot work in high altitude?. do you have the new version?
[15:55] <lovelace> LA3QMA: No, it stops above 60k (65k?)
[15:55] <Hualon> lovelace: Oh, this one is for the group, you don't need to get one. I paid $40 used and $150 / year for service
[15:55] <Hualon> LA3QMA: I have the original version and they report it stops at 60k
[15:55] <lovelace> Hualon: Not bad.
[15:56] <Hualon> lovelace: I'd really like to take it apart to see if we could make it work more frequently
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[15:56] <Hualon> even if we just hack a button pusher onto the "I'm here" button we could get more frequent updates
[15:56] <alikins> I suppose the simplest answer would be to use two of them
[15:56] <LA3QMA> Hualon: ok i think thats the best version. but the new with better indicators and a "safety" on the 911 button is somewthing i want. but i think the new is not so good on battery and cold
[15:57] <lovelace> Hualon: ha! I actually wondered yesterday if the internal GPSr could be replaced with a high altitude version. :-)
[15:57] <Hualon> LA3QMA: the old one is heavier too
[15:58] <LA3QMA> Hualon: yes buts that not an issue unless you are sending it up in a balloon ;o)
[15:58] <Hualon> I'm amazed at this point that Spot doesn't mention "High Altitude Ballooning" on their list of activities and suggested uses!
[15:58] <LA3QMA> it was -20 in the tent and it worked ok. my radio struggled with the display hehe
[15:59] Action: Hualon just shivered a little... -20!
[16:00] <fsphil> C or F? (not that it matters much .. still cold either way :)
[16:00] <LA3QMA> hehe it's not bad. when you are skiing you only have a tshirt and some non isolated goretext jacket. -20'C you get warm when moving
[16:01] <Hualon> fsphil: first one, then the other. ;-)
[16:02] <LA3QMA> anyhow the spot is nice for the sequrity. but it's a nice gadget too for fun when doing other things
[16:02] <lovelace> LA3QMA: With the spot in our 2nd balloon, we were able to get to the landing zone within minutes of it touching down.
[16:03] <lovelace> It then too 4 hours to get it out of the tree where it landed (about 60-65 feet up!)
[16:03] <LA3QMA> hehe
[16:03] <lovelace> In a tree with poison ivy vines all over it. :-(
[16:04] <LA3QMA> live to close to the sea so in a future balloon i'm going for a cheap tinytrack and a (n)evermore gps
[16:04] <lovelace> Yeah, there's something to be said for cheap.
[16:06] <Hualon> LA3QMA: tinytrack?
[16:06] <LA3QMA> yes or opentracker APRS thing
[16:06] <LA3QMA> you get them with xmitter too
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[16:08] <LA3QMA> nothing wrong with this picture: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1454779&l=ca95131268&id=742439106
[16:08] <LA3QMA> when you have view like this: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3518354&l=766207fb0e&id=742439106
[16:09] <Hualon> LA3QMA: YO! WOW!
[16:10] <LA3QMA> this is bad: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1454741&l=b5ebecf36f&id=742439106
[16:10] <LA3QMA> we planed a 2-3day tent trip. but used 7 due to bad whiteout. bud had plenty of food... :o)
[16:11] <lovelace> Hualon: TinyTrak is the tracker that JTrappe had in the pelican case.
[16:11] <Hualon> LA3QMA: lots of cannibalism jokes, I hope. ;-)
[16:11] <LA3QMA> Hualon: hehe
[16:11] <Hualon> lovelace: Oh, I never saw that
[16:11] <LA3QMA> opentracker is handling RF better than the tinytrack.
[16:12] <lovelace> Hualon: He had it at the first meeting he went to. It was the AIO (all in one) version
[16:12] <LA3QMA> buth both opentracker and tinytrack sometimes go in a lockup due to noice from the gps
[16:12] <lovelace> LA3QMA: We were flying an opentracker on our balloon yesterday (OT1x, old....)
[16:12] <Hualon> lovelace: Oh, yeah I had to leave that meeting early...
[16:12] <LA3QMA> sbut i have to go. bbl c ya
[16:13] <lovelace> LA3QMA: I'd love to get the special balloon version that Scott from OpenTracker has but the radio it uses is out of stock and there are problems with supply. :-(
[16:16] <Hualon> lovelace: did you see the news reports on TV? I didn't see any of 'em
[16:18] <lovelace> Hualon: I saw the WRAL one this morning and hopefully got an HD recording of it.
[16:18] <lovelace> I have not seen the News14 one.
[16:21] <alikins> no way? they actually showed that?
[16:25] <Hualon> alikins: hehe, why wouldn't they? I had several people mention that they saw me (in the background)
[16:26] <lovelace> alikins: I heard that Chris got featured being interviewed on the News14 one.
[16:26] <alikins> cool
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> News14?
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> oh
[16:32] <alikins> wish I could of stuck around for the second flight
[16:49] <fsphil> http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/08/23/1419233 -- "Why the World Is Running Out of Helium"
[16:52] <lovelace> SpeedEvil: Local news station that came out to our balloon launch yesterday
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> I thought typo of news24 initially
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> which is BBC rolling news channel in UK.
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> Then I realised you're not UK
[16:52] <fsphil> I think they dropped the 24 now
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> oh
[16:53] <lovelace> SpeedEvil: It's a 24 hour news channel by the cable company in North Carolina and they carry it on channel 14.
[16:53] Action: SpeedEvil wonders. Linda or Ava lovelace.
[16:53] Action: lovelace considers ignoring SpeedEvil from now on
[16:54] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:54] <SpeedEvil> Err
[16:54] <SpeedEvil> Ada
[16:54] <SpeedEvil> meh
[16:54] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace - though it's hard to tell how much is after-the-fact spin.
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[16:55] <lovelace> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lovelace
[16:58] <SpeedEvil> I was unaware of Richard. I still prefer Ada though.
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> Never got seriously into poetry.
[16:59] <m1x10> haha
[16:59] <m1x10> me neither
[16:59] <m1x10> :)
[17:03] <SpeedEvil> And Lindas contribution to her field of endevour lead indirectly to the current reductio ad circenses.
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[18:28] <W0OTM> New iHAB-1 flightpath prediction is posted @ http://www.w0otm.com/iHAB. Looks like its moved further north closer to Sigourney, Iowa. Launch is still a go to 8/28 10AM CST.
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[19:20] <W0OTM> anyone around/
[19:23] <W0OTM> is 'WIDE1-1, W0OTM-1' a valid path?
[19:23] <m1x10> ping LA3QMA
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[20:07] <lovelace> W0OTM: Good luck with your flight!
[20:09] <lovelace> W0OTM: Nice pictures of your payload on your website. Out of curiosity, where did you get the container?
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[20:25] <Upu> Test
[20:26] <fsphil> A+
[20:26] <Upu> that seems to work. Oh well I'll ask here instread. I've setup an Arduino (328 chip) on a breadboard. I've burnt the bootloader works fine, I've programmed it in my arduino board works fine.
[20:26] <Upu> I've put it on the breadboard.. works fine :)
[20:27] <Upu> however when I try program it on the breadboard it doesn't program I get not in sync errors
[20:27] <Upu> but the serial is working ok
[20:27] <Upu> any ideas?
[20:27] <Randomskk> reset line hooked up to programming?
[20:27] <Randomskk> DTR through a capacitor to reset
[20:27] <Upu> I tried to press reset before programming didn't wokr
[20:27] <Upu> ok
[20:28] <Upu> so 100n on DTR
[20:28] <Randomskk> short wires, make sure you have a crystal on it and close by with correct decoupling caps
[20:28] <Randomskk> in series
[20:28] <Upu> and there is resisitor on RTS
[20:28] <Randomskk> capacitor in series between dtr and reset
[20:29] <Upu> ok let me have a play
[20:42] <LA3QMA> lovelace: yes the Tracker2 is a nice product
[20:43] <LA3QMA> W0OTM: is there a digi in the area with W0OTM-1 in the alias? if so then that path could be used but i don't see the point
[20:47] <Upu> yeah that works Randomskk cheers
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[20:48] <Randomskk> np
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[21:03] <natrium42> o/
[21:03] <Randomskk> \o
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[21:03] <natrium42> world helium reserves are depleting
[21:03] <natrium42> maybe we should all switch to hydrgen
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[21:05] <Randomskk> or hot air, right
[21:05] <natrium42> how high can hot air balloons go?
[21:05] <natrium42> there's methane though
[21:06] <Randomskk> I think the issue with hot air as well is that it's friggin cold
[21:06] <Randomskk> theoretically if the air is hotter than the surrounds it'l just go up
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[21:06] <Randomskk> so it can go as high as anything, just so long as it remains hotter than it?
[21:06] <Randomskk> but like, it's -40 out
[21:07] <natrium42> well yes, but you also need pressure to expand the envelope
[21:07] <natrium42> if somebody could build a light balloon containing just vacuum...
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> Unless it's internally supported.
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> A vacuum balloon is barely doable with good CF
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> IIRc
[21:08] <Randomskk> that would be amusing
[21:09] <Randomskk> when does it stop going up?
[21:10] <Randomskk> or rather, does it burst?
[21:10] <Randomskk> I guess it obviously stops going up when the density differential is no longer sufficient to hold the weight of the thing up
[21:10] <Randomskk> but it seems like it'd float
[21:11] <natrium42> bursting... depends on the structure of the envelope i guess
[21:12] Nick change: smelaum -> smealum
[21:12] <Randomskk> seems like there'd be very little pressure difference at float altitude
[21:12] <Randomskk> why would it break?
[21:12] <natrium42> if it requires the stress from the outside air to hold shape, then it would obviously fail
[21:12] <Randomskk> CF tends to be pretty rigid though
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> it wuld float.
[21:13] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: ...forever?
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> At the same density of air as its average density.
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: pretty much.
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> Modulo leaks, and structural failure
[21:13] <Randomskk> I guess leaks would get you in the end, slowly
[21:14] <Randomskk> depends how well sealed you were against vacuum
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> I have plans for an aluminium balloon.
[21:14] <Randomskk> and the obvious eventual onset of entropy stopping you doing anything forever
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> Superpressure.
[21:14] <Randomskk> but it sounds like that would be fun
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> if you can get it to above the troposphere, it should be quite long-lived.
[21:15] <natrium42> aaah, gotta run off
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> wave
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> Don't run with scissors.
[21:16] <natrium42> lol
[21:16] <natrium42> see ya
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[21:22] <Laurenceb> hi
[21:22] <Upu> evening
[21:22] <Randomskk> yo
[21:23] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: does the seeedstudio cam file actually work? my drill file is misaligned
[21:23] <Randomskk> make sure your origin is actually at zero
[21:23] <Randomskk> it works fine for me
[21:23] <Randomskk> but your drills will be fucked up unless your shit starts at zero
[21:23] <Randomskk> there may be a tickbox on the cam file
[21:23] <Randomskk> let me send you mine
[21:23] <Laurenceb> k
[21:24] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/Fusion_eagle_cam_v1.1.cam
[21:24] <Randomskk> see if that's any better
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[21:27] <DanielRichman> I had to edit the seeed cam file and enable an option in the drill export to get it to work properly in gerbv
[21:28] <Laurenceb> it worked
[21:28] <Laurenceb> thats odd
[21:28] <Randomskk> maybe I edited that a while ago
[21:28] <Randomskk> there are various tick boxes and things
[21:28] <Laurenceb> yeah i had to edit it a lot to make sense
[21:28] <DanielRichman> I think it was the pos. Coord option
[21:28] <Randomskk> I selected different layers and things
[21:28] <Laurenceb> hmm ill try to find the difference
[21:28] <Randomskk> too
[21:28] <Laurenceb> ah right
[21:28] <Randomskk> but I think pos coord could be it
[21:28] <Laurenceb> yeah i tried adding an offset, and it was just jumping around weirdly
[21:29] <Laurenceb> obviously some sort of position format issue
[21:30] <Laurenceb> i think if they are anything like batchpcb they put the gerbers through a script to remove any apertures with a dimension less than tyhe minimum fabbable
[21:30] <Laurenceb> so i put the silkscreen through a little script to up the size of the really small apertures in the logo
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[21:31] <Laurenceb> seems to work ok, just a little blocky - the ink bleed will solve a bit of that, but i might use circles instead of rectangles for some stuff
[21:32] <Laurenceb> the other layers dont have any apertures less than 6mil so the gerber generator must be pretty good at its job
[21:32] <Laurenceb> gerbv ftw :P
[21:33] <Randomskk> gerbv is excellent
[21:33] <Randomskk> a part of me is tempted to try gEDA
[21:33] <Randomskk> or maybe kicad. one or the other
[21:33] <Laurenceb> oh definately for my next project
[21:33] <Randomskk> the open source thing is a persuasive argument and they can clearly be used for decent things
[21:33] Action: Randomskk has a legal full pro eagle license though
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[21:33] <Randomskk> (not that I paid for it)
[21:33] <Laurenceb> yeah, now im more familiar with pcb fab
[21:33] <Laurenceb> heh
[21:34] <Randomskk> (yay cadsoft sponsorship)
[21:34] <Randomskk> any thoughts kicad vs geda?
[21:34] <Laurenceb> or warez site
[21:34] <Laurenceb> not that i would dream of that
[21:34] <Randomskk> I said "legal" :P
[21:34] <Laurenceb> ive done a bit of work with geda
[21:35] <Laurenceb> couldnt really say tho
[21:35] <Randomskk> I tried both for a bit and found both annoying and hard to use
[21:35] <Randomskk> but then I probably found eagle annoying and hard to use once
[21:35] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:36] <Laurenceb> interesting thing happened to me with batchpcb, had a board that passed drc in eagle but not of their site
[21:36] <Randomskk> their DRC is custom software
[21:36] <Randomskk> and oold. the guy who wrote it's made a better version but it's not quite finished yet
[21:36] <Laurenceb> turned out the gerber had some small apertures that were removed by their code
[21:36] <Randomskk> but he's not employed at sfe any more
[21:36] <Laurenceb> then as a result the drc on the new gerbers failed
[21:36] <Randomskk> ah, weird.
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[21:37] <Laurenceb> they remove small apertures on the copper and stop, and up the size of apertures on the silk iirc
[21:37] <Laurenceb> but aiui the whole aperture thing is a massive old school carry over right?
[21:37] <Randomskk> yea
[21:38] <Laurenceb> as noone uses 2 axis optoplotters
[21:38] <Laurenceb> well apart from really small IC masks
[21:38] <Laurenceb> using scanned excimer lasers
[21:39] <Laurenceb> im not sure if they use a raster scanned uv laser to expose the board directly, or some more conventional printer type technique to make a mask for UV exposure
[21:40] <Laurenceb> guess for high volume a mask makes sense... but for proto places
[21:40] <Randomskk> so evil mad scientist use gEDA
[21:40] <Randomskk> but their PCB routing is like http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1199/4727511688_2d683e3e5f.jpg
[21:40] <Laurenceb> oh that decides it then
[21:41] <Laurenceb> so? that looks ok
[21:41] <Laurenceb> apart from lack of gnd plane
[21:41] <Laurenceb> and through hole eww
[21:42] <Randomskk> but yes, they are my main motivation to look at gEDA
[21:42] <Randomskk> I'm a bit surprised there's no windows build for gEDA or Kicad though
[21:42] <Laurenceb> i guess the issue with "organic" pcb routing is the gerber conversion, thats what i found with batchpcb
[21:42] <Randomskk> means actually sharing any of my schematics or board files is a non starter for people on windows
[21:42] <Laurenceb> the CAM had issues using sensible apertures
[21:42] <Laurenceb> the get all the weird shapes
[21:42] <Randomskk> oh, scratch that. kicad is cross platform
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[21:43] <Laurenceb> and the batchpcb drc code did not like the weird custom apertures in the gerbers
[21:43] <rjharrison> Evening all
[21:43] <Laurenceb> hi
[21:43] <Randomskk> yo rjharrison
[21:43] <rjharrison> Going to continue updating hab hib
[21:44] <rjharrison> sorry about the lack of presence on here life has been busy
[21:44] <rjharrison> habhub even
[21:44] <Laurenceb> whats that?
[21:44] Action: Laurenceb doesnt even know :(
[21:45] <Randomskk> http://habhub.org
[21:47] <Laurenceb> nice
[21:50] <m1x10> whos Anthony Stirk?
[21:50] <Randomskk> upu
[21:51] <m1x10> :0
[21:51] <m1x10> :)
[21:52] <JackNorris> so need a high res hab hub logo :(
[21:53] <[STAR]Atanyi|HCs> me
[21:53] <[STAR]Atanyi|HCs> oops
[21:53] Nick change: [STAR]Atanyi|HCs -> Upu
[21:53] <Upu> nothing to see here
[21:53] <JackNorris> haha
[21:59] <Upu> I got the breadboard Arduino working JackNorris, was missing one capacitor (thx Randomskk)
[21:59] <JackNorris> good stuff
[21:59] <Upu> I have however now broken the radio part of the circuit but I'm knakcered will have another look at it tomorrow
[22:01] <JackNorris> The radio bit is overrated
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[22:06] <Upu> hows the iphone tracker coming on ?
[22:07] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: I'm playing with kicad, it's non awful
[22:08] <JackNorris> good, still working with the UI
[22:08] <Laurenceb> ill have a look
[22:08] <Laurenceb> bbl
[22:08] <Upu> just use the small logo it will look fine on a 3 :)
[22:09] <Randomskk> I should do an android tracker
[22:09] <Randomskk> it'd be a good excuse to get into android dev
[22:09] <JackNorris> but I have a super duper high res iPhone 4 and its bugging me! :P
[22:09] <Upu> put some hires clouds in the back ground or something
[22:19] <rjharrison> Cool posted an icarus tring to the new tracker
[22:19] <rjharrison> I see hab hub has some info in has it been used or is that old data
[22:19] <rjharrison> ie has the client been updated:
[22:20] <rjharrison> I'm tempted to clean out the tracker if that's ok?
[22:20] <Randomskk> don't believe the client's been updated, might be testing data
[22:20] <rjharrison> Yep probably came across with natriums tracker db
[22:21] <rjharrison> I'll take a table dump just incase
[22:24] <rjharrison> There was crap in there I'v sorted it (well cleaned it out)
[22:24] <rjharrison> There is a bit of updating to do with the code now and some housekeeping
[22:25] <rjharrison> I'm hoping by the weekend the client can be updated to habhub
[22:25] <rjharrison> Is the tracker (natriums stuff in git?)
[22:25] <rjharrison> I'm going to roll the server to git when done
[22:25] <rjharrison> listener server that is
[22:25] <Randomskk> it can be easily put on git :P
[22:26] <rjharrison> Randomskk go fir it with the android app
[22:26] <Randomskk> I don't want eclipse and all that shit though. ewww java
[22:26] <Randomskk> however doing it in C is probably an exercise in pain
[22:27] <rjharrison> Yep
[22:27] <Randomskk> I imagine even accessing the GPS would be a pain in the arse
[22:27] <rjharrison> I quite like the mobile.php web page
[22:27] <rjharrison> works fine on most phones
[22:27] <Randomskk> yea
[22:27] <Randomskk> there's definitely scope for making some sweet mobile version of all the stuff
[22:27] <Randomskk> google maps works great on most smartphones as of v3
[22:27] <Randomskk> so you can have track/predict on that happily
[22:28] <Randomskk> but needs careful interface design
[22:28] <rjharrison> Though if you can write a small rtty decoder linked to google maps for android that would be most cool
[22:28] <rjharrison> But then you have a degree to do :)
[22:29] <Randomskk> pfft
[22:29] <Randomskk> more to the point I have a full time day job at the moment
[22:29] <Randomskk> degree is on hold for about another month until the holidays end
[22:29] <Randomskk> an rtty decoder would be fantastic
[22:29] <Randomskk> shame there's not really a microphone input
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[22:30] <JackNorris> The iphone does ;)
[22:31] <rjharrison> Randomskk there is on the HTC desire too me thinkgs
[22:32] <rjharrison> I thought they all had three pin audio connections stereo + input?
[22:33] <rjharrison> Right the listener server works but is butt ugly atm
[22:33] <rjharrison> I'll endevor to give it some TLC over the next few days
[22:33] <rjharrison> bed beckons. Or more appropriately the wife
[22:33] <rjharrison> lateres
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[22:33] <Upu> lol
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[22:44] <Randomskk> oh, so it does.
[22:44] <Randomskk> a quick hacked cable could connect to the radio easy
[22:44] <Randomskk> that IS an interesting prospect
[22:44] <Randomskk> you'd get gps and data decoding+upload
[22:44] <Randomskk> tbh though
[22:44] <Randomskk> someone would phone you
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[23:07] <juxta> hi jonsowman
[23:07] <fsphil> 1:1 balun worth it, if I was feeding a dipole with coax wire?
[23:17] <juxta> fsphil, for a yagi?
[23:17] <fsphil> nah, just two wires -- for hf
[23:18] <fsphil> I'm not using any atm and I suspect the coax is picking up all sorts of noise from the house
[23:19] <juxta> hf tends to pick up noise very easily regardless - I suppose technically you should put a balun, a center fed dipole has an impedence of 75 ohms from memory
[23:20] <juxta> we get loads of noise on HF here from the power grid and whatnot
[23:22] <fsphil> live with it, basically :)
[23:22] <juxta> haha
[23:22] <juxta> pretty much
[23:22] <fsphil> I'm also wondering if having the balun would make tuning any better -- I found the tuner didn't work well at the radio end of the coax, as when it was on the antenna side
[23:23] <fsphil> though that tuner was faulty
[23:24] <juxta> it'll probably help with that
[23:26] <fsphil> aah I'll try one, I can always ebay it if it doesn't help
[23:26] <juxta> fsphil, have a launch here today, I'll experiment with the rx bandwidth and see what works as a comprimise :)
[23:27] <fsphil> ooh that's right!
[23:27] <fsphil> Did you see my comment on github?
[23:27] <juxta> i did :)
[23:28] <fsphil> I'd still like to get the AFC to be a bit .. 'looser' .. while still having the narrow filter
[23:28] <fsphil> best of both worlds
[23:28] <fsphil> not sure if that's possible yet
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[23:30] <juxta> whoops
[23:30] <juxta> yeah, that would be ideal
[23:30] <juxta> perhaps if the AFC sampled the audio stream independantly from the decoder
[23:31] <fsphil> it's been a while since I looked, the old version afc used to work based on feedback from the decoder
[23:33] <fsphil> oh that's right, you can speed up the afc
[23:33] <juxta> I always have it on fast :)
[23:33] <juxta> I emailed W1HKJ:
[23:33] <fsphil> ah there goes that idea
[23:33] <juxta> > I've noticed in recent versions of fldigi the receive filter bandwidth defaults to much lower than in previous versions & was curious as to why this is -
[23:33] <juxta> The RTTY filter was changed from low pass to bandpass where the pass frequency are about the mark and space values.
[23:41] <juxta> alrighty, i best head off
[23:41] <fsphil> what time are you launching?
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[23:44] <Laurenceb> anyone here familiar with the badger2?
[23:45] <Laurenceb> are ht
[23:45] <Laurenceb> mount holes through plated?
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[23:46] <griffonbot> @nearsys: I got to visit the National Air and Space Museum and the Goddard Spaceflight Center for my presentation. Awesome. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/21949599382]
[23:46] <Randomskk> uhm. not that familiar
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[23:46] <Randomskk> they don't appear to be, no.
[23:46] <Randomskk> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/cuspaceflight/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=&media=badger2.jpg
[23:46] <Laurenceb> interesting
[23:48] <Laurenceb> as it looks like with seeedstudio all holes are plated
[23:48] <Laurenceb> tho i could be wrong
[23:48] <Laurenceb> any ideas from your boards?
[23:50] <fsphil> hmm.. I appear to have timed out.
[23:50] <fsphil> no wait I'm back
[23:50] <Randomskk> one sec
[23:50] <Randomskk> I don't know that any of my seeedstudio boards had mounting holes, come to think of it.
[23:50] <Randomskk> oh, wait.
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[23:51] <Randomskk> yes. they would appear to all be plated.
[23:52] <Laurenceb> ah makes sense
[23:52] <Laurenceb> someone suggested adding unplated holes to the router layer
[23:52] <Laurenceb> but aiui the tool cant be inserted
[23:52] <Randomskk> I found a PTH machine
[23:52] <Laurenceb> all holes are electroplated
[23:52] <Randomskk> http://www.megauk.com/through_hole_plating.php
[23:52] <Randomskk> do want
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[23:53] <Randomskk> also a multilayer pcb making machine http://www.megauk.com/multilayer_press.php
[23:53] <Laurenceb> not insane prices
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[23:54] <Randomskk> well the 8 layer pcb maker is
[23:54] <Randomskk> I like their 'kit' though
[23:54] <Randomskk> they will supply literally everything
[23:55] <Laurenceb> hmm
[23:55] <Randomskk> photoplotter, lightbox, CNC drill, cleaner, through hole plater, dry film laminator, UV exposure box, spray develop and etch, immersion coating, dryer, cutter
[23:55] <Laurenceb> how much?
[23:55] <Randomskk> "contact us"
[23:55] <Laurenceb> lol
[23:56] <Randomskk> but they sell all the parts individually, you could add it up
[23:56] <Laurenceb> a few million
[23:56] <Randomskk> nothing like that
[23:56] <Laurenceb> well no, a bit less than a house
[23:56] <Randomskk> less than that I imagine
[23:56] <Randomskk> but you could get a nice car
[23:56] <Randomskk> that said a laser printer works instead of a photoplotter
[23:56] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:56] <Randomskk> and the dryer is a bit pointless, the guillotine is massive, a hand drill works if you have good eyesight
[23:57] <Randomskk> the lightbox is not really needed, the spray develop/etch machines can be replaced by cheaper tanks
[23:58] <Randomskk> the CNC drill also does isolation milling apparently
[23:59] <Laurenceb> apparently seeedstudio do have a human look over the gerbers
[23:59] <Laurenceb> and theyll fix minor errors or let you know if its nonsense, so thats good
[00:00] --- Tue Aug 24 2010