[00:00] <Randomskk> seeya
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[08:36] <jcoxon> hmmm very unimpressed with virgin fibreoptics
[08:42] <juxta|console> hey jcoxon
[08:45] <jcoxon> hey juxta
[08:45] <jcoxon> juxta|console,
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[08:49] <jcoxon> juxta|console, did you see the pic of my pcb boards?
[08:51] <juxta|console> oh no I didnt jcoxon
[08:55] <juxta|console> jcoxon: just had a look on the Pegasus wiki, can't see them there - are they up somewhere?
[08:58] <jcoxon> grabbing the link now
[08:58] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/4905238823/
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[09:05] <juxta|console> nice jcoxon! does the module fit ok?
[09:05] <jcoxon> not sure - still waiting for one to arrive :-p
[09:06] Action: jcoxon wishes his broadband would work
[09:06] <juxta|console> haha
[09:07] <juxta|console> you're in your new place now then?
[09:07] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:07] <jcoxon> and they claim that there is a problem with activation and will be fixed by monday
[09:07] <jcoxon> monday is a long time to be on a 3g modem
[09:08] <juxta|console> that's annoying
[09:08] <juxta|console> still, better than dialup
[09:08] <jcoxon> true
[09:08] <juxta|console> what will you have when it's actually working?
[09:08] <jcoxon> 10mb cable
[09:08] <juxta|console> 10/10?
[09:08] <jcoxon> fibreoptic
[09:09] <juxta|console> yeah - 10mb in both directions?
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[09:09] <jcoxon> nah
[09:10] <jcoxon> something rubbish i suspect
[09:10] <jcoxon> i already regret signing up - wish i had go with BT ADSL
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[09:16] <juxta|console> jcoxon: i have those guys from sydney coming to launch here on tuesday
[09:17] <jcoxon> oh great - did they get any testing done in the end?
[09:17] <juxta|console> no
[09:17] <juxta|console> they've mailed down their payload
[09:17] <juxta|console> for me to test
[09:17] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:18] <juxta|console> ...and write code for
[09:18] <jcoxon> oh
[09:18] <jcoxon> thats quite a lot to ask
[09:21] <juxta|console> hmm
[09:21] <jcoxon> arduino?
[09:22] <juxta|console> well maybe they'll take us out to dinner or something ;p
[09:22] <juxta|console> yeah it's built around an arduino
[09:22] <juxta|console> i mean adapting my code to work on it won't take long
[09:22] <jcoxon> well the code exists in various forms on github
[09:22] <juxta|console> I'll do it tonight
[09:22] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:25] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[09:26] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!jcoxon@nat76.mia.three.co.uk: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, WB8ELK launch Sat 21/8 16:30UTC http://spacenear.us/tracker/
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[10:31] <fsphil> morning all
[10:31] <jcoxon> morning fsphil
[10:32] <jcoxon> juxta|console, is your car 'puter on?
[10:33] <juxta|console> jcoxon: nope
[10:33] <juxta|console> wait
[10:33] <juxta|console> i dont think so
[10:33] <juxta|console> it's not in the car any way
[10:34] <jcoxon> oh wait you aren't vk5zsn are you?
[10:34] <juxta|console> ah, no
[10:34] <juxta|console> that's adrian, the ham who helps me out :)
[10:34] <jcoxon> getting chase car updates to spacenear
[10:34] <juxta|console> ah
[10:34] <jcoxon> oh it parked up
[10:34] <juxta|console> i'll ring him and have him switch it off
[10:34] <jcoxon> might confuse people for wb8elk's launch
[10:34] <jcoxon> hehe
[10:35] <juxta|console> he's probably just testing prior to this launch
[10:35] <jcoxon> when are you launching?
[10:35] <juxta|console> one launch on Tuesday the 24th
[10:35] <jcoxon> oh great
[10:35] <juxta|console> probably 2 over the 28th & 29th
[10:35] <juxta|console> :)
[10:35] <jcoxon> wow
[10:35] <jcoxon> the repeater looks amazing
[10:35] <juxta|console> hehe
[10:35] <juxta|console> works pretty well too :D
[10:36] <jcoxon> first for Oz?
[10:36] <juxta|console> I think so, yes
[10:36] <juxta|console> fixed the 2m radio in my car too
[10:36] <jcoxon> careful that repeater doesn't get too warm
[10:36] <jcoxon> lots of insulation
[10:37] <juxta|console> i managed to short the RF out and GND on the coax to the antenna, so 55w of TX was coming back into the radio and my car electrics, not much run
[10:37] <juxta|console> fun even
[10:37] <jcoxon> eek
[10:37] <juxta|console> that was my concern too jcoxon
[10:37] <juxta|console> it seems OK at ground level after running all day
[10:37] <juxta|console> but it may be a different story when the air density is much lower
[10:38] <juxta|console> TX power is turned down to 1W, and the antenna has been pretty well matched, hopefully it doesn't get too hot
[10:38] <jcoxon> cool cool
[10:38] <juxta|console> I think the radio it's built from has thermal shutdown
[10:38] <jcoxon> won't be able to stay up for this flight
[10:38] <juxta|console> no worries - repeater isn't flying tuesday in any case
[10:38] <jcoxon> am on call next week
[10:39] <juxta|console> oh right - how is the new job going by the way? :)
[10:39] <jcoxon> its tough
[10:39] <jcoxon> long days
[10:39] <jcoxon> very busy
[10:39] <juxta|console> I expect it would be :(
[10:39] <juxta|console> are you thinking of going further and specialising?
[10:40] <jcoxon> not really sure yet
[10:40] <jcoxon> am doing surgery right now - certainly isn't for me
[10:40] <jcoxon> will see what my other placements are like
[10:40] <juxta|console> haha
[10:40] <juxta|console> I don't think I could even really stomach watching surgery, let alone taking part
[10:40] <juxta|console> except as the patient perhaps
[10:41] <jcoxon> hehe i find it really dull
[10:41] <juxta|console> jcoxon: if I need to edit the title text for the tracker etc, is that something i can do somehow?
[10:42] <juxta|console> (say the morning before the launch)
[10:42] <jcoxon> you need ssh access to spacenear.us
[10:42] <jcoxon> to change config.php
[10:42] <juxta|console> oh right
[10:42] <juxta|console> okay
[10:42] <jcoxon> best chat with natrium
[10:42] <jcoxon> but
[10:42] <jcoxon> i can do it the night before
[10:42] <juxta|console> okay - I'll send you an email
[10:43] <juxta|console> or try get in touch with natrium next time I see him on :)
[10:44] <juxta|console> jcoxon: do you know what the current status of dl-fldigi is? is AFC/rx bandwidth still an issue?
[10:45] <jcoxon> i don't think its an issue
[10:45] <juxta|console> okay
[10:45] <juxta|console> I'll grab the latest version and have a play tonight
[10:45] <jcoxon> let me check where the commit is
[10:46] <jcoxon> yeah fsphill modified that and its in my github
[10:46] <juxta|console> awesome
[10:53] <jcoxon> i've also pulled in the latest changes
[10:53] <jcoxon> so my github is very up to date
[10:54] <juxta|console> okay great
[10:54] <jcoxon> shout if you want windows binaries
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[10:54] <juxta|console> yeah - i will need to build them I think - do you have a toolchain setup?
[10:55] <jcoxon> yeah we can use habhub
[10:55] <juxta|console> oh awesome
[10:55] <juxta|console> so you can just pull the code and build it on habhub?
[10:56] <jcoxon> yes
[10:57] <jcoxon> building now
[10:57] <juxta|console> oh cheers jcoxon
[10:57] <juxta|console> :)
[10:59] <juxta|console> how is the porting of everything over to habhub going? I'd like to help out if there's anything that needs doing..
[10:59] <jcoxon> not really sure - been out of the loop a bit
[11:00] <juxta|console> I've not been around much either
[11:00] <juxta|console> have to find out if Ed ended up getting that placement in Melbourne
[11:00] <fsphil> eroomde_'s in the channel
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[11:01] <juxta|console> haha, thanks fsphil
[11:01] <fsphil> whether or not ed is, is another matter :)
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[11:02] <jcoxon> you can summon ed
[11:05] <juxta|console> righto - I'll be back shortly
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[11:11] <jcoxon> ping rharrison_
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[11:51] <fsphil> woo, friend just agreed to chasing the balloon if I ever get around to launching it
[11:54] <fsphil> hmm, WB8ELK's launch looks to be landing fairly close to an airport
[11:54] <fsphil> if the predictor is accurate
[11:54] <jcoxon> thats just a test point
[11:55] <fsphil> ah
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[12:15] <juxta> jcoxon, had vk5zsn turn off his carputer
[12:16] <jcoxon> hehe thanks
[12:17] <juxta> np
[12:21] <juxta> jcoxon, is that win32 binary on your git?
[12:29] <jcoxon> not yet
[12:30] <jcoxon> one sec
[12:34] <jcoxon> juxta, http://www.habhub.org/files/
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[13:24] <juxta> cheers jcoxon
[13:29] <BuffaloSouljah> and a few others are in the process of establishing a reading group to cover Leftist theory & radical politics. We are located on a forum atm (RevLeft, the largest Left-oriented forum on the Net), but I have made steps to set up an independant forum/site on which to engage in discussions and the like. I would also like to see us make use of IRC, Facebook and other formats & protocols to improve group cohesion. If you would
[13:31] <DanielRichman> Hello.
[13:31] <fsphil> yo
[13:32] <DanielRichman> how's it going?
[13:35] <fsphil> not too bad, haven't broke anything today. so far. :)
[13:37] <DanielRichman> I still haven't got my xmega chips; going to have to rage on someone
[13:38] <BuffaloSouljah> I guess that was rather badly worded statement
[13:40] <BuffaloSouljah> anyway, if anyone is interested in thinking and participating in candid discussion on salient issues in the present, then feel free to contact one of the site admins (myself included) by whichever means you feel most comfortable with
[13:41] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: kernel upgrade (nessie); to restart or not to restart?
[13:41] <DanielRichman> or ksplice :P?
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[14:06] <jcoxon> BuffaloSouljah, think you've got the wrong channel, we discuss high altitude balloons and electronics rather than politics
[14:07] <jcoxon> the discussion of politics is off topic and is discouraged - there are many other forums for that
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> The two can intersect.
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> Many political discussions would improve being carried out at 60000 feet without extra oxygen
[14:08] <Upu> working iphone chase car location uploading : http://ava.upuaut.net/tracker/
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> Congratulations!
[14:08] <DanielRichman> How?
[14:08] Action: Upu points at JackNorris
[14:08] <Upu> who looks like he's gone for a drive lol
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> Woo JackNorris.
[14:09] <Upu> I think hes testing it, looks like he's at the traffic lights in Bingley
[14:09] <DanielRichman> nice.
[14:09] <Upu> that's working perfectly
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> Does the iphone GPS work over 60000 feet?
[14:09] <Upu> it's for the chase car speed
[14:09] <Upu> just an app
[14:09] <DanielRichman> we um. know where (he?) you? live
[14:10] <DanielRichman> cool so you made an iphone app to upload to the tracker? nice
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[14:10] <SpeedEvil> It would be awesome if you could get streetview to 'drivre' you along the street at teh same time
[14:10] <DanielRichman> do you have to have a speshul iphone to put your own code on it?
[14:10] <SpeedEvil> (though not particularly helpful in this case)
[14:11] <Upu> no hes a registered developer so it can go on the itunes store
[14:11] <Upu> you set your name the password and the tracker server
[14:11] <Upu> and away you go
[14:11] <DanielRichman> very nice
[14:11] <Upu> tracking for a car without having to have Arduinos and seperate GPS in he card
[14:11] <Upu> car
[14:12] <Upu> I have no idea where he's going but it's obviously working :)
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> I did a tracker for my neo1973 _ages_ ago in one orr two lines of bash.
[14:12] <Upu> hope he remembers to turn it off before he goes cruising the red light district
[14:13] <DanielRichman> oh rjh used to leave his cartracker on while speeding
[14:13] <Upu> lol
[14:13] <Upu> stopped at the shops
[14:14] <Upu> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=bingley&sll=53.752999,-1.817915&sspn=0.010695,0.027874&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bingley,+West+Yorkshire,+United+Kingdom&ll=53.86423,-1.849163&spn=0.002667,0.006968&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.8642,-1.850185&panoid=4tYvz3q5g8NrY963nUMSzA&cbp=12,335.09,,0,-0.61
[14:14] <Upu> tescos :)
[14:15] <Upu> pretty damn accurate too
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[14:26] <jcoxon> guess we'll need to make an android one as well
[14:27] <jcoxon> i started one a while ago but had issues with posting
[14:27] <DanielRichman> Wasn't there an android payload?
[14:27] <DanielRichman> a while ago?
[14:28] <DanielRichman> if so, then I guess that's a bit of it
[14:28] <jcoxon> yeah
[14:28] <jcoxon> getting the gps data is easy
[14:28] <jcoxon> getting it to post the data to the tracker should be easy but i had issues
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[15:11] <jcoxon> ping rharrison_
[15:42] <juxta> what's the fastest desc rate anybody has seen around sea level?
[15:42] <jcoxon> too fast? :-p
[15:43] <juxta> hmm
[15:43] <juxta> facing some potential issues with this launch on tuesday
[15:43] <jcoxon> oh
[15:43] <juxta> we really need to have a high descent rate to keep it sane
[15:43] <juxta> otherwise we'll be driving all day
[15:44] <juxta> I'm guessing with only a radar reflector we might get ~15m/s descent
[15:45] <juxta> but I don't know - anybody ever launch without a chute?
[15:48] <jcoxon> not sure thats a good idea
[15:48] <jcoxon> it has been known for payloads to lose their chutes
[15:48] <jcoxon> but they hit the ground hard
[15:55] <fsphil> yea, definitely not a good thing
[15:55] <juxta> yeah, not too keen on it slamming into the ground
[15:56] <fsphil> unless you surround it with a few layers of bubble wrap
[15:57] <fsphil> bubble wrap that can survive 30km ...
[15:58] <fsphil> you might be better with a quick ascent
[16:00] <juxta> quick asc means heaps more gas :(
[16:00] <juxta> just looking back, my first launch hit the groundf at 15m/s
[16:00] <juxta> everything got tangled
[16:01] <fsphil> ooch -- that's really fast, was it a heavy payload?
[16:02] <juxta> yeah
[16:02] <juxta> about 1.2kg
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[16:03] <juxta> the safety aspect isn't too much of an issue here, it will be landing way out in the middle of nowhere
[16:04] <juxta> it's mainly making sure it will survive the impact I guess
[16:16] <fsphil> I suppose the only other option would be to have some way to delay the parachute deployment
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[16:18] <SAIDias> I have a 600 gram balloon. What is the ideal payload weight?
[16:20] <fsphil> hi SAIDias - depends :)
[16:20] <fsphil> you might want to play with the burst calculator: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/
[16:22] <SAIDias> so the MAX alt the balloon is never greater than its rated for?
[16:22] <SAIDias> meaning it will NEVER go higher then 33000M?
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> If you don't want max alt, you can go _way_ heavier on payload
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> SAIDias: not quite
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> SAIDias: If you put less gas in and less payload it'll go higher
[16:23] <SAIDias> let say I have a payload of 100g
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> However - there is a maximum.
[16:23] <SAIDias> and ONLY put enough He to get lift
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> The calculations all tend to assume that the burst diameter is constant, and the balloon internal pressure is zero.
[16:23] <SAIDias> will it go higher than 33000m?
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> (at burst)
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> When you go way down in fill quantity, the pressure begins to become significant at burst.
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> In some cases, it's significant enough that it overcomes the reduction in pressure with altitude, and the balloon hovers.
[16:24] <SAIDias> SpeedEvil: hovers where? at altitiude?
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[16:25] <SAIDias> but it generally wont go higher than the balloon was manufactuered to go
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> It will, yes.
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> With a modest reduction in payload.
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[16:30] <SAIDias> why doesn't http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/predict/ work for me
[16:31] <SAIDias> it goes through the process, but I don't see any trails on the map
[16:33] <DanielRichman> it's working for me.
[16:33] <DanielRichman> what browser do you use?
[16:34] <DanielRichman> it goes straight into the water http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/predict/#!/uuid=9748bbbf9279b5939a4e5816dcb91d56dc8684b7
[16:42] <SAIDias> hmm, I got it to work
[16:42] <SAIDias> thankx
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[17:16] <SAIDias> how accurate is the cuspacelight prediction site?
[17:16] <SAIDias> 1 day vs 7 days out
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[17:21] <juxta> SAIDias, predictions for the next day or two are pretty good
[17:21] <juxta> 7 days out is pushing it a bit
[17:21] <SAIDias> ok
[17:26] <Upu> anyone got the habhub.org logo in a higher res ? This one http://www.habhub.org/tracker/images/tracker-logo.png
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[17:38] <DanielRichman> Upu: natrium made that one as a spin off of the spacenear.us tracker logo. I'm not sure how permanant it is
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[18:00] <SAIDias> ok, take a look at my first balloon launch site
[18:00] <SAIDias> http://www.w0otm.com/iHAB/
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[18:21] <fsphil> how much range do you expect to get from the QRP Beacon, SAIDias?
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[18:29] <fsphil> bbl
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[18:52] <SAIDias> fsphil: depends on band conditions, but I would expect a large portion of the US
[18:52] <SAIDias> fsphil: I will have a half wave 20M antenna
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[19:10] <jonsowman> hi all
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> hi
[19:11] <jonsowman> ping DanielRichman
[19:11] <DanielRichman> hi
[19:11] <jonsowman> yo
[19:11] <jonsowman> decide anything on the cherokee ppa issue?
[19:11] <DanielRichman> Do you always run bleeding edge cherokee?
[19:12] <jonsowman> yeah
[19:12] <jonsowman> build from src as soon as it's on cherokee-project.com
[19:12] <DanielRichman> It's just... 1.0.1 (their ""stable"") or 0.99 (ubuntu stable) is a bit poor
[19:12] <DanielRichman> *are
[19:12] <jonsowman> yeah indeed they are
[19:12] <jonsowman> could just use their ppa
[19:12] <DanielRichman> and the half-way 1.0.5 is apparently broken
[19:12] <DanielRichman> yeah I didn't know about https://launchpad.net/~cherokee-webserver/+archive/i-tse
[19:13] <jonsowman> yeah 1.0.5 had a load of issues
[19:13] <DanielRichman> before I was using ppa:cherokee-webserver/ppa
[19:13] <jonsowman> running 1.0.6 on hexoc at the moment, fine so far
[19:13] <DanielRichman> which used to be bleeding edge
[19:13] <jonsowman> oh is that no longer bleeding edge?
[19:13] <DanielRichman> OK I'll install cherokee from https://launchpad.net/~cherokee-webserver/+archive/i-tse and see what breaks
[19:13] <jonsowman> yep go for it
[19:14] <jonsowman> so what hab things have i missed in the last week
[19:14] <jonsowman> oh, ping fsphil
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[19:15] <DanielRichman> jonsowman: I'm surprised that #cherokee thinks that the bleeding edge versions are "stable enough" though
[19:15] <DanielRichman> true, the person that said that isn't a spokesperson for them
[19:16] <jonsowman> hmm
[19:16] <jonsowman> yea that is a bit odd
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[19:17] <jonsowman> otoh, i've found them mostly stable
[19:17] <jonsowman> the only exception is 1.0.5
[19:17] <DanielRichman> heh maybe just got unlucky then
[19:17] <DanielRichman> allright time to install the 1.0.8 deb
[19:17] <DanielRichman> btw jonsowman what do you think about kernel upgrades on nessie
[19:18] <jonsowman> i wouldn't let unattended-upgrade(s) do it
[19:18] <DanielRichman> well unattended upgrades has installed the new kernel but not rebooted
[19:19] <jonsowman> ah
[19:19] <jonsowman> do you think it'd be wise to stop unattended-upgrades doing that
[19:19] <DanielRichman> I'm on the mailing list that gets the security notices; and the one for that kernel update isn't that serious but is a security update
[19:19] <jonsowman> i wonder if kernel upgrades are better done manually
[19:19] <DanielRichman> well jonsowman by the same argument you shouldn't let it upgrade anything like init or bash, or even anything that will trigger an initrd rebuild
[19:19] <jonsowman> yea that's true
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[19:20] <jonsowman> is the general consensus to just let UU upgrade the kernel then?
[19:21] <DanielRichman> I don't know.
[19:22] <jonsowman> hmm
[19:22] <DanielRichman> btw how was your week?
[19:22] <jonsowman> yea very nice thank you :) lots of lying on beaches, scuba diving and jetskiing
[19:22] <jonsowman> pretty fun
[19:24] <DanielRichman> nice
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[19:27] <jonsowman> have I missed much this week then?
[19:27] <DanielRichman> Don't know; I was in edinburgh
[19:28] <jonsowman> ah :) was good?
[19:28] <DanielRichman> Yeah
[19:29] <jonsowman> cool :)
[19:32] <natrium42> is it true? http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l77u3kf5011qzndo8o1_400.jpg
[19:33] <DanielRichman> er that reminds me of the US flag not the UK one
[19:33] <jonsowman> hehe
[19:49] <jonsowman> urgh CUSF disk quota
[19:49] <jonsowman> ping eroomde_
[19:55] <jonsowman> oh well cleared a load of crap out, that'll do for now...
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[20:35] <Randomskk> back
[20:35] <Randomskk> whew
[20:35] <Randomskk> I'm shattered
[20:35] <Randomskk> going to your friend's son's christening, when your friend is a bit younger than you are, is pretty scary
[20:35] <Randomskk> the kid's adorable though
[20:35] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: reboot if it's the kernel issue I'm thinking of, e.g. the big linux security thing
[20:35] <Randomskk> ksplice would be nice but not sure it's worth it given how relatively infrequent new kernels are
[20:35] <Randomskk> is a bit sad given the whole uptime records thing but still
[20:35] <DanielRichman> yeah it's about 1 every month
[20:36] <Randomskk> usually a bit less?
[20:36] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: I read the notes; it's all local-attack things
[20:36] <Randomskk> fairly serious ones iirc. they hit slashdot. any local user can escalate to root?
[20:36] <Randomskk> I guess it's not vital though
[20:36] <DanielRichman> yeah those ones >.>
[20:36] <DanielRichman> http://www.ksplice.com/why 8 in the year they were measuring
[20:36] <Randomskk> certainly I don't have any issue with unattended upgrades installing it, it doesn't change anything until it reboots
[20:36] <DanielRichman> well the potential issue is that if UU does mess it up and then there's a powercut, you've got a brick
[20:36] <Randomskk> hmm
[20:37] <DanielRichman> but that's not very likely
[20:37] <Randomskk> especially given as I believe this is on a UPS
[20:37] <Randomskk> and no more likely than when doing it manually, either
[20:37] <DanielRichman> yeah. OK I'll tell it to reboot
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[20:40] <DanielRichman> hmm mebe I should restart his session for him
[20:56] <jonsowman> hi Randomskk
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[21:40] <Laurenceb> hi
[21:40] <fsphil> pong jonsowman :) sorry, was away for a bit
[21:41] <jonsowman> no worries :) hows things?
[21:41] <fsphil> pretty good thanks, you?
[21:41] <jonsowman> yeh fine thanks
[21:41] <jonsowman> you pinged me about a week ago haha - sorry was on hols
[21:41] <fsphil> ate too much -- some family from scotland over to visit, all out for a meal
[21:41] <jonsowman> anything that's still an issue?
[21:42] <jonsowman> ah sounds good :)
[21:42] <fsphil> hmm. I can't remember now
[21:42] <fsphil> nothing important anyway
[21:42] <jonsowman> righto
[21:42] <jonsowman> if it was regarding the dead-ness of the CUSF predictor, it's ok again now
[21:42] <jonsowman> it's the disk quota, but I need to speak to Ed to see what crap I can safely delete
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[21:44] <fsphil> good holiday?
[21:44] <jonsowman> very nice thank you :)
[21:45] <jonsowman> astonishingly hot
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[21:51] <fsphil> looks like WB8ELK had a nice flight
[22:08] <fsphil> SAIDias, I might have a listen for it - if the conditions are right it might carry over the atlantic
[22:09] <fsphil> although I didn't have much luck with the last HF balloon
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[23:04] <Randomskk> ping jonsowman
[23:04] <Randomskk> you just missed me, I was so tired I collapsed and slept for a bit after getting back from the christening
[23:05] <jonsowman> hi Randomskk
[23:05] <jonsowman> oh nice
[23:05] <Randomskk> yo
[23:05] <jonsowman> was good?
[23:05] <Randomskk> fun christening. my friend's kid
[23:05] <jonsowman> excellent
[23:05] <jonsowman> :)
[23:05] <Randomskk> bit terrifying wrt him having a kid
[23:06] <jonsowman> friend of similar age then?
[23:06] <Randomskk> he's like a month younger
[23:06] <jonsowman> ah I see
[23:06] <jonsowman> yeh that's pretty young to have a kid
[23:06] <Randomskk> kid's now... must be coming on two
[23:06] <Randomskk> maybe more like one and a bit
[23:07] <jonsowman> wow
[23:07] <Randomskk> I think coming on two.
[23:08] <Randomskk> the friend is alex, his other school friend chris was there too (who is the godfather), he now goes to oxford it turns out, so plenty of opp for banter
[23:08] <Randomskk> (chris left my school to go to another sixth form)
[23:08] <jonsowman> hehe
[23:09] <Randomskk> had a lot of good ideas from people for the next revision of the motor controller
[23:10] <jonsowman> excellent
[23:10] <jonsowman> such as?
[23:10] <Randomskk> found out farnell do, for 5p, an sc88 6pin package which has a PNP and NPN transistor in one
[23:10] <Randomskk> sc88 is tiny tiny tiny, 2mm by 2mm
[23:10] <jonsowman> oo
[23:10] <jonsowman> neat
[23:10] <jonsowman> very neat
[23:10] <Randomskk> smaller than the sot23 individual transistors
[23:10] <jonsowman> perfect
[23:10] <Randomskk> I can use a charge pump to generate 24V out of the 12V supply, and use that to drive the gate of an n-channel high side MOSFET
[23:11] <Randomskk> so I can use an entirely n-channel power stage
[23:11] <Randomskk> which is way more efficient
[23:11] <Randomskk> also, 50p n-channel mosfets, less than half the previous cost
[23:11] <jonsowman> too good to be true I would normally say...
[23:11] <Randomskk> meanwhile I can drop the specialised current sense amp and use a normal opamp in differential amplifier mode, which saves another £2 or so
[23:11] <jonsowman> sounds good
[23:11] <jonsowman> :D
[23:12] <Randomskk> as for driving the mosfets, someone suggested that the reason they were burning out is that my drive to low is just the pulldown
[23:12] <Randomskk> e.g. the mosfet input is driven high by the PNP+NPN, but just pulled back down low via a 10k
[23:12] <Randomskk> 10k is pretty big, and the gate capacitance pretty large, so it was taking a long time to turn off
[23:12] <Randomskk> which means lots of time spent in the linear region, so loads of dissipated heat and wasted power
[23:13] <jonsowman> interesting and good point
[23:13] <Randomskk> so my new design has active drive in both directions
[23:13] <jonsowman> cant think of any other reason for it in any case
[23:13] <jonsowman> yea that's wise
[23:13] <Randomskk> which means 4 transistors for every mosfet, but because I have the tiny things it's only two tiny packages per mosfet
[23:13] <jonsowman> :)
[23:13] <Randomskk> the charge pump also needs one PNP and one NPN transistor
[23:13] <jonsowman> that's fine then
[23:13] <Randomskk> so I can use the same little package for that, too
[23:14] <Randomskk> meanwhile I realised the AVR is £2, but for £4 I can get an STM32F103 in QFN32 package
[23:14] <Randomskk> which includes the advanced motor control timer, with features like deadtime insertion and emergency stop, as well as loads of high accuracy freewheeling DMAing ADCs that can interrupt when a value is exceeded, per channel
[23:15] <Randomskk> it'd probably make programming it much more fun and easy, but I realised that tbh the extra £2 is really significant if I can manage to do it on an AVR instead, so I'll probably still use the AVR
[23:15] <Randomskk> but, for back EMF zero crossing detection, I can actually use the ADC's onboard comparator to detect the voltage transistion - it only has one comparator, but it turns out one of those inputs can be the ADC mux's output
[23:15] <Randomskk> which means I can run the comparator on any ADC input just by setting the mux
[23:16] <jonsowman> :D
[23:16] <jonsowman> sounds like that all fits together very well
[23:16] <Randomskk> set the other comparator level to the zero crossing voltage and detecting that crossover should be way easier, none of this crap with trying to sync ADC reads to the PWM off stage and reading it all the time until it crosses
[23:16] <jonsowman> yea
[23:17] <Randomskk> but the ARM would be way nicer. interrupt on the ADC to the current sense amp going too high, interrupt on battery voltage going too low, interrupt on any of the three phases doing a zero crossing, set the ADCs to freewheeling and just leave them
[23:17] <Randomskk> it'd all fire on interrupt, super nice
[23:18] <Randomskk> plus it runs at 72mhz so comms with the flight computer could be way faster
[23:19] <Randomskk> but it's significantly more expensive, even over the entire cost of the board
[23:19] <jonsowman> hmm yea
[23:19] <jonsowman> how uch more?
[23:19] <jonsowman> * much
[23:20] <Randomskk> £4 for the arm, £2 for the AVR
[23:20] <Randomskk> there are £3 ARMs in TQFP
[23:20] <Randomskk> but TQFP48 is too big for me
[23:20] <jonsowman> right
[23:20] <Randomskk> £4 for the more powerful arm which is also the cheapest in qfn32
[23:20] <Randomskk> there are slightly cheaper AVRs, but this gets me an ATmega168PA which has all the stuff I want
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: I assume there isn't enough stuff to make a quad motor controller easily from one stm?
[23:22] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: nah. I think they could do two at a big stretch, but they seem only designed for one.
[23:22] <Randomskk> then again two would probably balance the cost successfully
[23:23] <Randomskk> seeing as I'd need less pcb, only one current sense amp and setup, only one charge pump
[23:23] <Randomskk> would mean much more complicated and higher current PCB design though
[23:24] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: but, I was wondering, do you think a logic level FET would work instead of a FET and four transistors driving it? http://uk.farnell.com/nxp/psmn7r0-30yl/mosfet-n-ch-30v-65a-sot669/dp/1699710
[23:24] <Randomskk> that thing is tiny, only a few p more than the normal mosfet, but logic level drive
[23:25] <Randomskk> otherwise I two sc88 dual-BJT packages per transistor for the high and low drive
[23:25] <fsphil> yes, just heard the ISS .. at last
[23:25] <Randomskk> those ones are SMT which is annoying as they'll take more board space, but I could probably stand to put three of them on the reverse side
[23:25] <Randomskk> fsphil: sweet! what were they transmitting? or the repeater?
[23:25] <fsphil> One of the crew is on the radio
[23:25] <Randomskk> oh cool
[23:25] <Randomskk> what antenna?
[23:25] <fsphil> I'm on the vertical
[23:25] <Randomskk> ooh. are they on 2m?
[23:25] <fsphil> called a few times but they didn't get me
[23:26] <fsphil> 145.800
[23:26] Action: Randomskk really wants to try hearing from them
[23:26] <Randomskk> doubt my 2m whip will do a very good job but once I get the vertical...
[23:26] <fsphil> it might do
[23:26] <fsphil> it's a very strong signal
[23:26] <Randomskk> worth trying
[23:26] Action: Randomskk checks for passes
[23:26] <fsphil> I think this pass just ended, not hearing them now
[23:27] <jonsowman> right am off, night all
[23:27] <Randomskk> night
[23:28] <fsphil> night jonsowman
[23:28] <fsphil> I heard it on 145.550 too for some reason
[23:28] <fsphil> the american accent caught my attention
[23:30] <fsphil> Col. Doug Wheelock was the operator
[23:31] <Randomskk> huh
[23:31] <Randomskk> heavens-above doesn't list any visible ISS passes anywhere near this time
[23:31] <Randomskk> I guess the radio can pick it up even when it's not visible?
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[23:31] <fsphil> aye
[23:31] <fsphil> there's a page there for all iss passes
[23:31] <Randomskk> so there is
[23:32] <Randomskk> yea, it lists 23:20 today
[23:32] <Randomskk> and the next at just before 1am
[23:32] <LazyLeopard> Uplink on one frequency and downlink on another, usually, for ISS.
[23:32] <fsphil> just see it now too .. that was a low pass for me
[23:33] <fsphil> the next one is better, but it's at 00:54:28 and they'll probably be asleep
[23:34] <Randomskk> sleeping on the job, tsk
[23:34] <LazyLeopard> Next two passes should be good and high. Or not so good if you've an antenna that doesn't radiate vertically all that well...
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[23:35] <fsphil> that'll be me lol
[23:35] <Randomskk> hehe true
[23:35] <Randomskk> I could lie the whip down
[23:35] <Randomskk> or use my 434mhz yagi, I'm sure that'l work just fine. >_>
[23:35] <fsphil> actually that might be why I received this so well, it was on the horizon for most of the pass
[23:35] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, that'd help.
[23:36] <Randomskk> tempted to try
[23:36] <Randomskk> I wonder if I have anything around that'l power the radio
[23:36] <Randomskk> really need to buy a psu for that
[23:36] Action: Randomskk waits for paycheque
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[23:37] <fsphil> Why are amateur radio PSU's soo expensive?
[23:37] <Randomskk> I know right
[23:37] <Randomskk> it's crazy
[23:37] <Randomskk> it's not really just amateur radio PSUs though
[23:37] <Randomskk> all power supplies that can do double digit currents at about 13.8V are really expensive
[23:37] <Randomskk> thinking of http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/mydel-mp8230-switch-mode-p-6130.html as it's the cheapest and smallest
[23:39] <fsphil> "Fully protected." .. nice
[23:39] <Randomskk> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/w25am-watson-power-supply-unit-p-3562.html looks nice too, though, but I might get that as a general bench psu
[23:40] <fsphil> yea the meters could come in handy
[23:40] <Randomskk> for general use, definitely. not sure I'd need them for the radio
[23:40] <Randomskk> then the question is whether I buy both, so I have one for the radio and one for elsewhere
[23:40] <Randomskk> probably worth it, but maybe not all at once.
[23:41] <Randomskk> hmm bugger
[23:41] <Randomskk> the 1am pass goes right over me really
[23:41] <Randomskk> gets up to 81 degrees
[23:41] <Randomskk> you reckon they'll be asleep then anyway?
[23:42] <fsphil> they use GMT on the station, so possibly
[23:42] <Randomskk> yea I imagine they would be then
[23:42] <fsphil> though they could do sstv or something else too
[23:45] <Randomskk> FM SSTV on 145.800 apparently
[23:46] <Randomskk> apparently it might be non active atm though
[23:47] <Randomskk> http://www.issfanclub.com/sstv-reports
[23:47] <Randomskk> that was ages ago but no one's said anything since
[23:47] <fsphil> 5 weeks
[23:47] <fsphil> ah well
[23:48] <Randomskk> odd that it seems to have been updated many many times a day... 5 weeks ago
[23:48] <Randomskk> like ten updates in a day, multiple not actives, dunno why they'd stop now
[23:49] <Randomskk> basically though just tune to 145.800 and see if I get anything at all?
[23:49] <fsphil> seems that way
[23:50] <Randomskk> worth a try
[23:50] <fsphil> I've listened to quite a few passes now, that's the first i've heard anything
[23:50] <Randomskk> looks like there's some other stuff, on 121, 130, 143 mhz
[23:50] <Randomskk> telem stuff
[00:00] --- Sun Aug 22 2010