highaltitude.log.20100803

[00:01] <fsphil> hmm.. I got a letter in CU Amiga once ... ;-)
[00:01] <DanielRichman> anyone got any dpkg go-faster stripes? I'm bored now.
[00:09] <fsphil> gps altitude - accurate enough to warrant float over an int?
[00:11] <sbasuita> fsphil: i would say no
[00:11] <sbasuita> does the gps even provide decimal places?
[00:12] <fsphil> both mine do, "90.5,M"
[00:13] <fsphil> going to ignore it
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[00:20] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Well - yes, actually.
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: but not really.
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I was suprised to see that the error distribution of my GPS is onlu +-5m vertically
[00:20] <fsphil> it's a case where it can be that accurate, but usually isn't?
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> I suspect that it's only going to be meaningful for non-consumer grade GPS
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> with DGPS
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> that is - the variants of GPS with a local basestation.
[00:22] <fsphil> aah
[00:27] <fsphil> night all
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[00:39] <SpeedEvil> night
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[01:44] <Wild-Wing> what is the min distance between the payload and the parachute you should use
[01:45] <SpeedEvil> most people use several metres.
[01:45] <SpeedEvil> 10m is probably sane.
[01:46] <Wild-Wing> 10 metters thats a long distance
[01:46] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[01:46] <SpeedEvil> but it's almost no weight
[01:46] <SpeedEvil> look at videos from some launches, they're all more than you'd expect
[01:46] <Wild-Wing> is there a reason they are that long?
[01:48] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[01:48] <Wild-Wing> im just currious i thought i could get away with 10 feet between the payload and the parachute
[01:48] <SpeedEvil> the period is related to the swing frequency
[01:48] <SpeedEvil> and also - the longer the string, the less likelyhood it will tangle
[01:49] <Wild-Wing> ahhhhhhh ok
[01:57] <juxta> Wild-Wing: http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/IMG_09231.jpg
[01:57] <Wild-Wing> oh holy hell thats alot of rope
[01:59] <juxta> perhaps 20m
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[02:04] <blomlet> Wild-Wing: For that picture just posted, on descent, will the weight of the radar reflector intefere with the operation of the parachute?
[02:05] <Wild-Wing> that would be a question for juxta but my guess is it might hinder it but im not sure
[02:05] <juxta> blomlet, that's why there's so much string between them :)
[02:06] <juxta> that came down very well though
[02:06] <juxta> we saw it falling, it was very gentle & balanced
[02:07] <blomlet> i c is the radar reflector attached to the top or outside of the parachute?
[02:07] <juxta> the top
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[02:09] <blomlet> cheers for clarifying
[02:10] <natrium42> o/
[02:15] <Wild-Wing> is it better to put the radar reflector before or after the chute?
[02:36] <juxta> hey natrium42
[02:36] <juxta> Wild-Wing, first flight I had it before the chute and everything got tangled up
[02:37] <juxta> came down like a missile :)
[02:37] <Wild-Wing> lol
[02:42] <natrium42> yo juxta
[02:43] <juxta> how are things in Canadia?
[02:44] <juxta> also - was it you that mentioned barebonespcb.com?
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[06:25] <timbobel> whooh i got press comming over in 2 hrs
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[07:06] <natrium42> :O
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[08:20] <m1x10> morning !
[08:45] <jonsowman> morning all
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[09:05] <jonsowman> predictor fixed :)
[09:06] <jonsowman> as in, someone fixed the NOAA server
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[10:08] <jonsowman> morning eroomde
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[10:27] <eroomde> morning jonsowman
[10:28] <jonsowman> hows things with you
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[10:40] <eroomde> jonsowman: sorry, irssi doesn't boing so I miss things. I'm very well indeed. you?
[10:42] <jonsowman> yeh fine thanks :)
[10:43] <jonsowman> are you on windows?
[10:44] <eroomde> yesd
[10:44] <jonsowman> putty?
[10:44] <eroomde> irssi through pip through putty
[10:46] <jonsowman> http://blog.ryara.net/2007/06/29/flashing-taskbar-with-putty-irssi-screen/
[10:46] <eroomde> tbh I'm not sure i want the distruaction :)
[10:46] <jonsowman> hehe ok
[10:46] <Snomi> Randomskk: An error occurred during a connection to randomskk.net.
[10:46] <Snomi> Peer's certificate has an invalid signature.
[10:47] <jonsowman> Snomi: have already notified Adam about that
[10:47] <Snomi> fair enough
[10:47] <jonsowman> it's a weirdness with cherokee I think
[10:48] <jonsowman> good email Ed
[10:49] <jonsowman> CU VM would be nice
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[10:50] <eroomde> yeah - infact might you want to try and negotiate that? I ask because I have a lot less leverage what with me leaving cam in about a month
[10:50] <jonsowman> yes would be happy to, can you give me some pointers of people to contact?
[10:50] <jonsowman> not necessarily right now - when you get time
[10:51] <eroomde> well, I was going to try Churchill computing as churchill are super keen. but that's probably a non-starter if you're not churchill
[10:51] <eroomde> the srcf guys might have some ideas
[10:51] <jonsowman> I shall email them
[10:52] <jonsowman> Chu is probably not going to work
[10:52] <eroomde> they might consent to a vm, and that *might* circumvent the cam-only thing. as in, you need to be a member of cudn to log in to pip, but perhaps you don't in order to log into the vm
[10:52] <jonsowman> I like habhub
[10:52] <jonsowman> yes
[10:52] <eroomde> cusf might be able to donate some hardware to srcf if necessary
[10:53] <eroomde> (to sweeten the deal)
[10:53] <jonsowman> right
[10:54] <eroomde> I leave that to your discression. You've basically got as many reighs to the cusf pot as any of the rest of us now
[10:55] <eroomde> reigns*
[10:55] <eroomde> brb
[10:55] <jonsowman> ok
[11:09] <eroomde> bk
[11:10] <jonsowman> hello
[11:10] <jonsowman> right, emailed SRCF
[11:10] <jonsowman> see what they say
[11:10] <eroomde> awesome
[11:11] <jonsowman> despite rob's offer, I don't think one person owning the server is a good idea
[11:16] <jonsowman> shame habhub.com is taken huh
[11:17] <eroomde> really?
[11:17] <eroomde> tits
[11:17] <eroomde> .org?
[11:17] <jonsowman> everything else is free
[11:17] <jonsowman> apart from .com and .co.uk
[11:17] <jonsowman> .org? .org.uk? .net?
[11:18] <eroomde> .org is nice
[11:18] <eroomde> as it really is an org
[11:18] <jonsowman> yes
[11:18] <jonsowman> indeed
[11:18] <eroomde> and .org.uk would defeat the purpose of ditching the ukhas moniker
[11:18] <jonsowman> oh yea
[11:18] <jonsowman> hadn't thought of that
[11:23] <fsphil> hablab
[11:24] <eroomde> nice
[11:24] <eroomde> abfab, for ballooning with a cigarette, stillettos, and a glass of champagne
[11:24] <eroomde> which is something I often do
[11:25] <eroomde> bbiab
[11:28] <DanielRichman> some guy in california has habhub.com
[11:28] <jonsowman> haha
[11:29] <jonsowman> I think rjh's point about not using his name in the dl url is irrelevant
[11:29] <jonsowman> or soon will be, as dl-fldigi will have a "server" field soon I believe
[11:29] <DanielRichman> well that might make it worse; cause everyone will see that it's his name in there
[11:29] <DanielRichman> currently it's hidden
[11:30] <DanielRichman> I understand him though; he might feel that it looks a bit weird
[11:30] <jonsowman> true
[11:30] Action: DanielRichman is happy 'cause compiz works
[11:30] <jonsowman> :)
[11:30] <jonsowman> compiz is fun
[11:30] <DanielRichman> Yeah I didn't want to use fglrx and it leaked ram on myc ard anyway
[11:30] <DanielRichman> so now that they've made a full accelerating driver for my card ... :D
[11:30] <jonsowman> :D
[11:31] <DanielRichman> (obligatory 5 minutes with wobbly windows has been spent and they have been disabled)
[11:31] <jonsowman> haha
[11:31] <jonsowman> i detest wobbly windows
[11:31] <jonsowman> drawing fire on the screen, otoh
[11:31] <DanielRichman> just no
[11:32] <jonsowman> haha
[11:32] <jonsowman> :D
[11:32] <DanielRichman> btw was talking about this with adam yesterday; he had a couple of pro-linode points
[11:32] <jonsowman> preaching to the converted lol, but go on
[11:33] <DanielRichman> easier to admin; and he said that many "owners" = "fewer single points of failure" which is a diplomatic way to say it
[11:33] <jonsowman> yes
[11:33] <jonsowman> that is very true
[11:34] <DanielRichman> hmm something has happened as a result of that rather large "UKHAS VPS?" thread
[11:34] <DanielRichman> gmail is now giving me targeted ads trying to sell me xen vpses in various locations
[11:35] <jonsowman> haha
[11:35] <jonsowman> the things gmail picks up on is great
[11:35] <DanielRichman> right; time for breakfast
[11:35] <DanielRichman> brb
[11:36] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: http://lister.hexoc.com/alpha/linodeadmin.jpg
[11:38] <jonsowman> you can have lots of users
[11:39] <jonsowman> then
[11:39] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: http://lister.hexoc.com/alpha/linodeadmin2.jpg
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[12:04] <gonzo_> Any RF men on here today? Had a question about downlink kit in UK
[12:04] <eroomde> try me
[12:05] <jonsowman> gonzo_: just ask :) if someone knows, they'll answer
[12:06] <gonzo_> cheers
[12:06] <gonzo_> Q: Is there any rectriction in UK on flying 446mhz kit on baloons?
[12:06] <gonzo_> I know you can't modify the radios, but would have 500mW o/p, rather than the 10mW of the 433 kit.
[12:07] <eroomde> to transmit from the balloon?
[12:07] Action: jonsowman goes quiet
[12:08] <gonzo_> Or is the problem more tio do with weight of radio and batts?
[12:08] <eroomde> gonzo_: is this to transmit from the balloon?
[12:08] <gonzo_> Well, 446 radios are tcvrs, so there could be two way comms if there was an application
[12:09] <eroomde> right, well you're legally limited to 10mW transmission power from unmanned airborne vehicles by ofcom
[12:09] <eroomde> so what you're proposing would be illegal
[12:10] <eroomde> and you probably therefore won't get any help on how to do it. At least, not from me. But it's quite easy - do you have an amateur radio license?
[12:10] <gonzo_> From what I've seen from enquiries to ofcom, they don'r seem interested in what you do with the radios, as long as you don't mod them. So poss of an airborne repeater?
[12:10] <eroomde> gonzo_: then you've not seen enough. they're quite explicit on this
[12:12] <eroomde> we think it's a silly law, don't get me wrong, but there's no beating about the bush on their position on this one.
[12:12] <gonzo_> yep, licenced. Not allowed to run AR kit from any airborne platfiorm, including tethered balloons.
[12:12] <gonzo_> But could find no info on any restrictions on 446meg
[12:13] <gonzo_> Interesting, if you have any links of 446 rescrictions woyukld be keen to read
[12:13] <russss> you're only allowed to use specifically licensed 446 transmitters
[12:13] <russss> which must have an integral antenna
[12:14] <eroomde> gonzo_: yep, there's a document i am just finding for you
[12:14] <russss> I did look this up before. I might have it bookmarked
[12:14] <gonzo_> thanks
[12:16] <eroomde> yeah, the document is called something like irf3020 or something but for the life of me I can't remember exactly where to find it
[12:17] <jonsowman> eroomde: with all this VPS stuff in the air at the moment, shall I bother deploying the predictor on SRCF?
[12:17] <jonsowman> or should I wait till the UKHAS server is sorted, then deploy there?
[12:17] <eroomde> yes for sure
[12:17] <jonsowman> ok
[12:18] <jonsowman> will start doing that now
[12:18] <eroomde> no, i'd get it on the srcf
[12:18] <eroomde> keep the old one just incase
[12:18] <jonsowman> have closed all the issues I wanted to before SRCF deployment
[12:18] <jonsowman> oh yes, I won't delete the old one
[12:18] <eroomde> yeah, wack it up
[12:18] <jonsowman> will do
[12:18] <eroomde> call it /pred or something
[12:18] <jonsowman> okay
[12:19] <russss> eroomde: ir2009? http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/spectrum-policy-area/spectrum-management/research-guidelines-tech-info/interface-requirements/IR2009.pdf
[12:19] <russss> it doesn't seem there's a restriction on having them airborne actually
[12:19] <russss> but it is speech-only
[12:19] <russss> and I thought that repeaters weren't allowed
[12:22] <eroomde> russss: nope, that's not the one
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[12:24] <eroomde> ir2030 infact
[12:32] <m1x10> my fsa gps hasnt lock for 5 hours :(
[12:34] <fsphil> ooh err
[12:34] <fsphil> indoors?
[12:34] <DanielRichman> jonsowman: cool
[12:34] <m1x10> I think I got the "timbomel syndrome"
[12:35] <m1x10> indoors outdoors everyhere.
[12:37] <jonsowman> right so how do I install python packages on SRCF
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[12:44] <gonzo_> Thabnks for the doc.
[12:44] <gonzo_> It refers to speech/audio, so could get away with AFSK, as that is audio. But the F3E sort of ties it down.
[12:44] <gonzo_> The ofcom position on repeaters is that as long as the radios are not modified, the source of the audio is not important. There are people interlinking them on the internet, which ofcom is fine with.
[12:44] <gonzo_> So I though of one of the simplex 'parrot' repeaters. All just ideas at the moment.
[12:48] <jonsowman> eroomde: lots of things are not group writeable and not owned by me
[12:48] <jonsowman> can't do a lot of things I need to
[12:48] <jonsowman> and i can't sudo either of course
[12:49] <jonsowman> any ideas?
[12:51] <DanielRichman> if the directory is g writable can't you override?
[12:52] <russss> gonzo_: wikipedia says "Repeaters and gateways are prohibited in the UK"
[12:52] <fsphil> gonzo_, for simple data the 10mw of the 433mhz modules is more than enough
[12:52] <russss> but their citation on that 404s
[12:53] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: doesnt seem to work
[12:54] <jonsowman> should just be a case of chmod g+w dir/ right?
[12:54] <DanielRichman> I think g+w gives you permission to delete
[12:55] <DanielRichman> (files inside the directory)
[12:55] <DanielRichman> but I'm not 100% sure
[12:55] <jonsowman> hmm
[12:56] <DanielRichman> ie cp to new name mv back over the old one
[12:56] <DanielRichman> ofc if this doesn't work then Bad Things will happen which I don't want to be responsible for >.>
[12:56] <DanielRichman> so don't take my word for it
[12:56] <jonsowman> hehe
[12:56] <jonsowman> okay
[12:56] <jonsowman> thanks
[13:01] <gonzo_> Wikipedia does need to be taken with a pinch of salt for tech detail
[13:02] <gonzo_> the eQso people have all the ofcom lettrers on tgheir site
[13:02] <gonzo_> but agree on 10mW being enough
[13:02] <gonzo_> was curious to know of there was ant specific prob with airborne 446meg
[13:02] <gonzo_> ta guys
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[13:11] <rharrison> Who os adam jones?
[13:11] <rharrison> who is
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[14:24] <Upu> Afternoon
[14:24] <Upu> jonsowman was it you talking about the VPS yesterday ?
[14:26] <jonsowman> probably. could also have been DanielRichman or Randomskk
[14:26] <jonsowman> what about it?
[14:27] <Upu> Was just wondering what the concerns were about using someones server
[14:27] <jonsowman> we don't want to rely on one person
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> They get hit by a bull, or decide that electricity is evil, and they need to move to brazil.
[14:28] <jonsowman> hahaha
[14:28] <jonsowman> precisely
[14:28] <Upu> lol fair enough
[14:29] <jonsowman> shared ownership is better all round I think
[14:29] <Upu> well ok I have a server I just reloaded it whilst I was in the data center today, I can give you contact details for support if I'm not available
[14:29] <eroomde> WIN
[14:29] <Upu> I'll hand over the keys to it tbh it was only going to go on the spare shelf anyway
[14:30] <jonsowman> wow.. are you sure?
[14:30] <Upu> 100% dedicated it's got Centos on it
[14:30] <eroomde> WIN
[14:30] <eroomde> get that man a beer
[14:30] <Upu> hardware raid , new (ish) hard drives , 3Gb RAM , 4 x 750Gb in a RAID10
[14:30] <eroomde> :o
[14:30] <Upu> some sort of Xeon
[14:30] <jonsowman> blimey
[14:30] <Upu> and you can have 24/7 support on it even if I'm not here
[14:31] <jonsowman> where is it?
[14:31] <Upu> oh all the bandwidth you can eat
[14:31] <Upu> Synergy House UKGrid Manchester
[14:31] <jonsowman> okay
[14:31] <Upu> oh it's on a UPS of course as well
[14:31] <jonsowman> well that's very generous of you, are you sure you're willing to hand control of it to UKHAS?
[14:32] <Upu> yep I hate seeing kit go to waste
[14:32] <Upu> it was an old storage server we upgraded
[14:32] <eroomde> christ something that powerful could run serious weather forecast monte-carlos and everything. i'm swooning
[14:32] <Upu> obviously keep the usage legal if it turns in to a bit torrenting warez server I will turn it off
[14:34] <jonsowman> hehe of course
[14:34] <eroomde> that's an exceptionally generous offer
[14:35] <Upu> let me see what CPU is in it
[14:35] <jonsowman> thank you
[14:36] <Upu> Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.20GHz x 2
[14:36] <Upu> thats not bad is it :)
[14:37] <Upu> no idea why it had 2 in but hey ho
[14:37] <jonsowman> not ast all!
[14:37] <jonsowman> s/ast/at/
[14:38] <eroomde> wowee
[14:38] <eroomde> slashdot here we come
[14:38] <eroomde> we could seriously do some very hardcore stuff on this
[14:39] <eroomde> I do actually have some code that will estimate the real-time ballistic co-efficient in an optimal way (with the usual caveat of your assumptions) but it's much more crunchy than the current method - but this would make light work of it
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[14:47] <m1x10> I got the "timbomel syndrome"
[14:47] <m1x10> my ublox doesnt lock for hours......
[14:47] <m1x10> Yestarday I was playing with ublox protocol stuff
[14:48] <m1x10> I think thats the cause
[14:48] <m1x10> but if we unplug it from power
[14:48] <m1x10> whouldnt it loose its config?
[14:52] <fsphil> the breakout board has a battery, it might cause something to persist
[14:52] <fsphil> try removing the battery for a few minutes
[14:52] <m1x10> i dont use its battery
[14:52] <m1x10> i have removed from the first time i got it
[14:53] <fsphil> ah, then it probably isn't anything you have done - I don't believe it has any kind of persistent storage
[14:54] <m1x10> :)
[14:54] <m1x10> but its too much now that it does not lock
[14:54] <m1x10> for about 8hours
[14:55] <m1x10> its on the same place as alsways
[14:55] <m1x10> everything is sme
[14:57] <fsphil> true
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[15:28] <m1x10> fsphil, I placed it at my rooftop
[15:28] <m1x10> I stayed with it 5 minutes and nothing
[15:28] <m1x10> I left it there
[15:28] <m1x10> with a battery
[15:30] <m1x10> the other 2 gps I have lock nice
[15:30] <m1x10> so its not a satellite issue
[15:30] <m1x10> im sure something happened to ublox
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[15:41] <m1x10> ok still no lock on the rooftop
[15:41] <m1x10> something is broken
[16:00] <fsphil> do the GPGGA lines have the time?
[16:01] <m1x10> no
[16:01] <m1x10> all zeros
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[16:09] <fsphil> don't see anything obvious in the datasheet. what commands where you sending to it?
[16:10] <m1x10> I tried to disable SBAS.
[16:10] <m1x10> command was success. but when trying to enable it got failures.
[16:10] <m1x10> page 122
[16:14] <fsphil> I don't have that pdf
[16:15] <m1x10> header[0xB5 0x62] id[0x06 0x16] length[0x08 0x00] payload[0x02 0x01 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00] checksum[a,b]
[16:15] <m1x10> with that i got success disabling sbas
[16:16] <m1x10> fsphil, then look for CFG-SBAS (0x06 0x16)
[16:16] <m1x10> on datasheet
[16:17] <rharrison> pin m1x10
[16:17] <rharrison> ping
[16:17] <m1x10> hey
[16:17] <m1x10> hi
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[16:17] <rharrison> I have had this problem when the voltage dropped are you battery powering
[16:18] <m1x10> rharrison, No
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[16:18] <rharrison> arse
[16:18] <rharrison> hum
[16:18] <rharrison> Upu, nice offer of a server
[16:18] <m1x10> rharrison, shouldnt all configuration be lost when i remove power?
[16:18] <rharrison> personally I think we should go with this
[16:19] <rharrison> What's the GPS?
[16:19] <m1x10> fsa03
[16:19] Nick change: m1x10 -> timbomel_syndrom
[16:19] <rharrison> hum not sure. I haven't played with on of thouse
[16:20] <rharrison> haha
[16:20] <timbomel_syndrom> :(
[16:20] <Upu> no problem Rob have a chat with Jon
[16:20] <rharrison> upu do you have a login
[16:20] <rharrison> BTW centos is cool
[16:20] <DanielRichman> noooooo
[16:20] <jonsowman> rharrison: sorting one for you now
[16:20] <jonsowman> 2 secs
[16:20] <DanielRichman> centos is uncool
[16:20] <rharrison> That's what I use for all the servers at work
[16:20] <jonsowman> we're going to have to have a vote on OS
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[16:21] <DanielRichman> that is true
[16:21] <rharrison> DanielRichman, wait till you get into the business environment
[16:21] <rharrison> habhub,comn has gon
[16:21] <Upu> yes 1 sec
[16:21] <rharrison> e
[16:21] <DanielRichman> habhub.org is still there
[16:21] <rharrison> but habhub.org is there
[16:21] <jonsowman> .org = good
[16:21] <rharrison> Yep
[16:22] <rharrison> shall we grab it?
[16:22] <DanielRichman> no rush
[16:22] <jonsowman> Upu: is custom rdns possible?
[16:22] <DanielRichman> unless a squatter is listening in
[16:22] <natrium42> habhub is nice
[16:22] <jonsowman> agreed
[16:22] <Upu> yep I can amend the PTR record
[16:22] <jonsowman> ok great
[16:22] <jonsowman> no need right now - just asking for future info :)
[16:26] <natrium42> habble.org
[16:26] <natrium42> is free too :P
[16:26] <jonsowman> hehehe
[16:27] <DanielRichman> bit to close to habbo.co.uk
[16:28] <natrium42> habbub
[16:29] <rharrison> I like habhub.org
[16:29] <jonsowman> me too
[16:29] <rharrison> I think we should grab that and go with it
[16:31] <DanielRichman> rharrison: besides yum what's the diff between centos and debian-based?
[16:33] <rharrison> I'm not in a good position to talk about debian. But centos is RHEL which is what I have used for the past 10 years
[16:33] <DanielRichman> RHEL seems to be v. popular with businesses
[16:33] <Upu> its very very stable
[16:34] <Upu> never had a blip out of our CentOS servers
[16:34] <rharrison> Unlike my window ones
[16:34] <DanielRichman> eh windows
[16:34] <Upu> Well Windows isn't that bad just needs alot more TLC to keep it all going than Linux in general
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[16:37] <rharrison> We have 16 centos servers here and 5 windoze ones. It's always windows that are the flakey ones
[16:38] <Upu> you can have windows on it if you want :)
[16:38] Action: Upu ducks
[16:38] <jonsowman> D:
[16:43] <fsphil> worse than windows itself, is IIS
[16:43] <DanielRichman> splash of aspx
[16:43] <DanielRichman> bit of m$sql
[16:44] <fsphil> it might just work ;-)
[16:44] <DanielRichman> serves 4
[16:45] <fsphil> then requires a restart
[16:45] <DanielRichman> :D
[16:46] <fsphil> we had a page on IIS that rendered an image - if more than one person accessed it at the same time, the entire IIS process locked up requiring a complete reboot
[16:46] <DanielRichman> oh dear.
[16:46] <fsphil> yea
[16:46] <DanielRichman> thread safety? or something worse?
[16:47] <fsphil> something worse I think
[16:49] <fsphil> a separate process rendered the image, something in IIS itself was sticking
[16:50] <DanielRichman> win
[16:50] <fsphil> I eventually moved it onto a linux vps host, no problems :)
[16:51] <fsphil> but the PHB still won't let me setup a proper linux box here
[16:51] <jonsowman> anyway I vote for Debian for the UKHAS server :)
[16:51] <jonsowman> but a vote it shall be, I think
[16:52] <DanielRichman> is an email-vote ok?
[16:52] <jonsowman> I don't see why not
[16:55] <DanielRichman> all right
[17:02] <rharrison> I vote centos. Save Upu having to drive over to Manchester. Plus it's good for people to exp. different OS's
[17:05] <DanielRichman> it might be possible to install another OS remotely
[17:05] <jonsowman> Upu: do you need to visit the server to switch OS?
[17:08] <rharrison> jonsowman, yes he does
[17:08] <rharrison> I had already asked
[17:09] <rharrison> I'm sure he would do it if needs must
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[17:29] <timbomel_syndrom> hello
[17:29] <timbomel_syndrom> I have some electro-related question
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[17:29] <timbomel_syndrom> anyone that want to help ?
[17:30] <Wild-Wing> whats the question maybe someone will know it
[17:33] <timbomel_syndrom> wel
[17:33] <timbomel_syndrom> well
[17:33] <Upu> hi jonsowman yes if you want OS switching I have to go to the colo. I would strongly recommend you give it a shot if something just isn't working and Debian is the answer I'll happily go out out and do it
[17:34] <timbomel_syndrom> say that I want to increase the amperes in a circuit
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[17:34] <timbomel_syndrom> for example. a pin on arduino outputs 50mA max. Is any possible way to make this 50mA to something bigger using some electronics?
[17:35] <jonsowman> Upu: okay, thanks :)
[17:36] timbomel_syndrom (~mixio@ppp089210140086.dsl.hol.gr) left irc:
[17:36] <jonsowman> ls
[17:36] <jonsowman> w
[17:36] <jonsowman> haha oops
[17:37] <jonsowman> wrong screen window
[17:38] <DanielRichman> so yeah, basically we can't change the OS short of something crazy involving preseed files and ramdisks (I can vageuly think of a way to do it, but it would be Asking For Trouble (tm)). CentOS should be ok?
[17:38] <Upu> haha I'll drive out there before we stating making things that complex :)
[17:38] <DanielRichman> I don't think that would be necessary :)
[17:39] <fsphil> I've had pretty good experiences with centos, but I can't say I've ever used debian
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[17:39] <jonsowman> with that server, yes, CentOS
[17:39] <jonsowman> going to have to learn it someday
[17:39] <jonsowman> :)
[17:39] <fsphil> One of my boxes uses ubuntu lts, I'm not that fond of it but it does the job
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[17:40] <Wild-Wing> timbomel_syndrom you could use a transformer to up the amps im not sure
[17:40] <Upu> some of the stuff is in slightly different places
[17:40] <Upu> and you use yum instead of apt-get
[17:40] <DanielRichman> what's the replacement for aptitude?
[17:40] <Upu> yum
[17:41] <Upu> yum install apache etc
[17:41] <jonsowman> am I right in saying that repos and priorities need config'ing first?
[17:42] <Upu> not sure never had to mess with it
[17:42] <fsphil> not normally no
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[17:43] <jonsowman> as it stands, "yum install apache" results in package not found
[17:43] <DanielRichman> apache? eww
[17:43] <jonsowman> as it does with git-core, and htop
[17:43] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: not intending to use it
[17:43] <jonsowman> just as an example to get yum working
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[17:44] <fsphil> yum install httpd
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[17:45] Action: jonsowman nails m1x10's foot to the floor
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> left or right?
[17:46] <jonsowman> left
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[17:46] <DanielRichman> his left, or your left?
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[17:46] <jonsowman> damn
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> That's the wooden one!
[17:46] <jonsowman> ah, woops
[17:47] <DanielRichman> so Upu this box is totally clean; all you've done is install a base system & set the hostname?
[17:47] <jonsowman> and sshd and ntpd?
[17:47] <Upu> yep
[17:47] <DanielRichman> 'cause there's a whole load of trash in /etc
[17:47] <m1x10> hey
[17:47] <m1x10> anyone sew my wuestion?
[17:48] <DanielRichman> or are rhel boxes normally like that?
[17:48] <DanielRichman> there's even gtk stuff in here
[17:49] <Upu> thats a totally fresh install :)
[17:51] <Upu> never really looked to be honest 99Mb of stuff
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[17:57] <Upu> I accepted the "Server Install" default
[17:58] <m1x10> jonsowman
[17:58] <m1x10> sorry I updated my mirc and got lots of dc
[17:58] <m1x10> did u see my question above?
[17:58] <jonsowman> hehe np :)
[17:59] <eroomde> sorry, actually had to do some work this afternoon if anyone was after me from previous convo
[18:00] <eroomde> very annoying when that happens. Have we settled on CentOS then?
[18:00] <jonsowman> if we use this server, yes, probably
[18:00] <eroomde> oh tits I need to be 3 miles away in 15 minutes and my bike is a 5 min walk away
[18:00] <eroomde> bbl
[18:00] <jonsowman> hehe ok
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[18:01] <m1x10> jonsowman !
[18:01] <DanielRichman> Upu: I guess you picked the root password?
[18:01] <m1x10> I got question :) can u help?
[18:02] <Upu> yeah change if it you want
[18:02] <Upu> but let me know what it is
[18:02] <Upu> I just disabled direct root logins
[18:02] <Upu> you'll have to su now
[18:02] <DanielRichman> right so if that's disabled we can passwd -d root and just use sudo?
[18:02] <jonsowman> m1x10: not sure on that one, sorry
[18:02] <Upu> not sure never done it
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> gg oxygen permeability latex condom stretched
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> argh
[18:03] <m1x10> ok
[18:03] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: sudo -i
[18:03] <DanielRichman> well Upu if the root p/w is secure enough; is it?
[18:03] <Upu> I'll change it to something so hideously horrible to type no one will want to use root anyway
[18:03] <jonsowman> haha
[18:03] <DanielRichman> :D
[18:03] <jonsowman> good idea
[18:03] <DanielRichman> aslong as you keep it somewhere safe
[18:03] <DanielRichman> jonsowman: but then I lose my PS1
[18:04] <jonsowman> true
[18:04] <jonsowman> just sudo things then
[18:04] <jonsowman> should be alright
[18:04] <DanielRichman> and tbh the root PS1 is ickeh
[18:04] <jonsowman> mine is pretty :D
[18:04] <Upu> its red
[18:04] <DanielRichman> my PS1 is the standard debian one
[18:04] <jonsowman> it is very red
[18:04] <DanielRichman> with one modification
[18:04] <DanielRichman> the red is nasty
[18:04] <Upu> which means warning your root
[18:04] <Upu> log out now
[18:05] <DanielRichman> find the nearest window
[18:05] <DanielRichman> jonsowman: we should discourage the use of sudo -s or sudo bash for the sake of keeping an audit trail?
[18:06] <Upu> I'm off to cook food -if you decide to use it mail me a list of authorised contacts to anthony@nevis.co.uk cheers
[18:06] <jonsowman> yes that's true DanielRichman
[18:06] <DanielRichman> ok Upu; that you very much again for the offer :)
[18:06] <jonsowman> thank you Upu
[18:06] <DanielRichman> Upu: are you on ukhas-tools@googlegroups.com // can I add you to it?
[18:07] <DanielRichman> Aug 3 18:06:50 ukhas sudo: jon : TTY=pts/0 ; PWD=/home/jon ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/bin/bash
[18:07] <DanielRichman> *admonish*
[18:07] <jonsowman> hehe
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> hahhahhaahahhahahahahahahahahhaha
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> http://creation.com/blowing-old-earth-belief-away-helium
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> (I'm trying to do research on if goldfish can live in an inflated condom.
[18:14] <Wild-Wing> lol
[18:28] <m1x10> Question
[18:28] <m1x10> I want to measure the amperes running at certain pins on my arduino
[18:28] <m1x10> arduino must be powered?
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[18:29] <SpeedEvil> Read the AVR datasheet.
[18:29] <LA3QMA> it's difficult to get helium :o( every 2.5month we are ordering 100liters of liquid helium (cryogens for an MR) and 50lit compressed
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: What do you mean by that?
[18:29] <m1x10> SpeedEvil I know the ampere values. Just to measure them using a multimeter
[18:29] <m1x10> arduino has to be powered to do such a thing?
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: What you're asking does not make sense.
[18:30] <m1x10> :(
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> What are you trying to do.
[18:30] <m1x10> I want to measure the mA running at a certain pin
[18:30] <m1x10> on this pin a gps is connected
[18:31] <m1x10> giving the gps 3.3v
[18:31] <Upu> DanielRichman I'm on the main mailing list but please add me to that one if you wish
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> Umm.
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: You can't do that.
[18:31] <m1x10> ok. why?
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: GPSs are usually really, really picky about the power quality.
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: Also - the GPS will draw more than the pin can safely supply usually.
[18:31] <DanielRichman> Ok Upu: that list was created to drag spam on the topic of habhub away from the main list. If we do decide to call it habhub it might need another rename ;X
[18:32] <m1x10> SpeedEvil: I want to measure how much mA flows onto the pin that goes to GPS vcc.
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: you mean you want to measure supply current of the GPS?
[18:32] <m1x10> using a multimeter
[18:32] <m1x10> something like that
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> you can't connect the GPS to the pin and have it work to supply power.
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> to an output pin that is.
[18:33] <m1x10> im not sure if i got u
[18:33] <m1x10> let me rephrase
[18:34] <m1x10> I just want to see how much current flows through a certain pin.
[18:34] <SpeedEvil> If you try to power the GPS with an IO pin of the arduino, it will not work. The GPS will draw too much current, causeing the voltage at the pin to drop lots. In addition, the supply will be very unstable and noisy.
[18:34] <Upu> got it thx
[18:34] <SpeedEvil> If you want to measure the current in a wire, you break the wire, and place a current meter in the gap
[18:35] <m1x10> SpeedEvil Im working the FSA03 with 50mA 3 days now.
[18:35] <Upu> Harold you on here ?
[18:35] <DanielRichman> m1x10: are you powering the fsa03 through an arduino pin?
[18:35] <m1x10> yes. 3.3v 50mA
[18:35] <DanielRichman> I think it might need a bit more than that
[18:35] <DanielRichman> not 100% sure
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: 50mA is over the maximum that an arduino pin can supply safely.
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> It may output a volt or two at this voltage, but it will be considerably under 3.3V
[18:36] <m1x10> SpeedEvil that pin comes from FTDI chipset.
[18:36] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil: he's referring to the 3v3 regulator in the ftdi chip; which is indeed capped at 50mA
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> ah
[18:36] <DanielRichman> but I think the fsa03 uses more than that anyway
[18:36] <DanielRichman> so the point still stands
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> Ok - that's not bad in that case, but you will probably need an external regulator. Most GPSs spike to lots more than 50mA - though their average may be under that
[18:36] <m1x10> DanielRichman Im working the fsa03 for days now without problems.
[18:37] <m1x10> but today somthing happened
[18:37] <m1x10> It cannot lock
[18:37] <DanielRichman> food; bbl
[18:37] <m1x10> :0
[18:37] <m1x10> :)
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[18:38] <m1x10> SpeedEvil is any way to increase the mA ?
[18:38] <m1x10> using some electronics
[18:38] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: you need a regulator.
[18:38] <m1x10> eg. I want to increase the 50mA of the FTDI chip to 100mA for example.
[18:38] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: which runs off hte batteries or USB or whatever your supply voltage is, and outputs a stable 4.3V
[18:38] <SpeedEvil> 3.3
[18:39] <m1x10> SpeedEvil the regulator will increase the mA ?
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> no - the regulator provides a sepeerate source of current.
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> Supplied directly from the source, and regulated to lower the voltage to the required level.
[18:40] <m1x10> and about mA?
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> Think of it like this.
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> A table can support 300Kg. This does not mean if you sit on it, that you will weigh 300Kg.
[18:42] <m1x10> ah
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> The load draws only what it needs from the power supply. If this exceeds the power spplies maximum rating, bad things may happen.
[18:43] <m1x10> so u tell me that it was bad that for days now I supply the GPS with 50mA ?
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: you may have overloaded the regulator in the FTDI chip, and eventually killed it.
[18:44] <m1x10> killing ftdi now i wouldnt have usb
[18:44] <m1x10> and the gps wouldnt power on
[18:44] <m1x10> but everything works
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> You can sometimes exceed ratingd for a while, an nothing will happen
[18:45] <m1x10> ftdi pin outputs exactly 3.35v
[18:45] <m1x10> measure by multimeter
[18:46] <m1x10> now i shall measure ampere
[18:46] <m1x10> i just need to place the red wire to vcc and black wire to gnd ?
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> no.
[18:47] <m1x10> but thats how i do it with voltage
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> Do you measure volume with a ruler?
[18:47] <m1x10> lol
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> You need to break the circuit, and put the meter in series with the circuit, switched to current.
[18:47] <LA3QMA> the voltage is how much "pressure" you need from a waterpipe. the ampere is how much flow you need from it
[18:48] <m1x10> ok
[18:51] <LA3QMA> anyhow dinnertime :o) bbl
[18:51] <fsphil> enjoy LA3QMA
[18:51] <m1x10> spaggeti da best :)
[18:52] <fsphil> I had spicy chicken today, lovely stuff
[18:52] <jonsowman> mmm
[18:52] <m1x10> spicy mmm
[18:52] <jonsowman> nom nom
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[18:53] <m1x10> well today i spend the whole day to figure out why my falcom fsa03 suprisingly stopped working
[18:53] <m1x10> how nice
[18:53] <m1x10> i will never flight a balloon
[18:53] <jonsowman> ah you'll get there :)
[18:53] <jonsowman> people seem to be having a lot of falcom issues at the moment
[18:54] <jonsowman> how is yours doing fsphil?
[18:54] <fsphil> yea it's odd that
[18:54] <fsphil> no problems at all so far
[18:54] <m1x10> nick timbomel_syndrome
[18:54] Nick change: m1x10 -> timbomel_syndrom
[18:54] <jonsowman> intriguing
[18:54] <jonsowman> let's hope it stays that way
[18:54] <fsphil> I'm not using the esawdust breakout board though
[18:54] <jonsowman> ah
[18:55] <timbomel_syndrom> fsphil first days mine working just smooth. today its dead.
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[18:55] <timbomel_syndrom> $PUBX,00,000333.00,0000.00000,N,00000.00000,E,0.000,NF,6496157,4593475,0.000,0.00,0.000,,99.99,99.99,99.99,0,0,0*2C
[18:55] <timbomel_syndrom> it outputs only zeros !
[18:55] <timbomel_syndrom> from morning
[18:55] <timbomel_syndrom> 12 hours
[18:55] <jonsowman> odd
[18:55] <fsphil> I think SpeedEvil's right, you need to power it with a 3.3v regulator
[18:56] <timbomel_syndrom> but the ftdi pin already is at 3.35v
[18:56] <timbomel_syndrom> why to put the reg
[18:56] <fsphil> the regulator can supply much more amps than the fldi pin
[18:56] <fsphil> the gps probably needs more amps than the ftdi can safely provide
[18:57] <timbomel_syndrom> and from which source i will power the reg?
[18:57] <jonsowman> pretty much anything
[18:57] <timbomel_syndrom> can i use arduino's 5v vcc ?
[18:57] <fsphil> that would be a good source
[18:57] <jonsowman> that'd be fine, yes
[18:58] <timbomel_syndrom> ok, someone tell me what do i need to say the smart guy at the electronic shop ?
[18:59] <timbomel_syndrom> i need a reg which takes 5v and outputs 3.3v ?
[18:59] <jonsowman> yep
[18:59] <jonsowman> a linear regulator
[18:59] <jonsowman> the simple ones are 3-pin type jobs
[18:59] <timbomel_syndrom> i dont have to say anything for amperes?
[19:00] <jonsowman> the fsa03 reckons 40mA
[19:00] <jonsowman> most regulators will be fine with that
[19:00] <jonsowman> I'd recommend going for at least 100mA
[19:00] <jonsowman> but that's probably most of them
[19:01] <timbomel_syndrom> can u show me a pic of that?
[19:01] <jonsowman> the package type may vary
[19:01] <jonsowman> i'd guess at TO-92 or TO-220
[19:01] <jonsowman> (google image those)
[19:01] <timbomel_syndrom> ok
[19:03] <timbomel_syndrom> thats a transistor
[19:03] <timbomel_syndrom> ahh now i see. its used to amplify current.
[19:03] <fsphil> not a transistor, they only look the same :)
[19:04] <timbomel_syndrom> ;p;
[19:04] <timbomel_syndrom> http://www.electronicsteacher.com/resources/to-92.gif
[19:04] <timbomel_syndrom> it says pnp/npn
[19:04] <timbomel_syndrom> thats transistor !
[19:04] <fsphil> *that's* a transistor, but the regulators can look the same
[19:04] <jonsowman> TO-92 is just a type of package
[19:05] <timbomel_syndrom> ahh ok thats the thing i know as reg ->http://chesterelectronics.com/images/550px-TO-220_Front_Coloured_svg.png
[19:05] <fsphil> http://wb5rvz.com/sdr/components/lm78l05_to92_pkg.gif
[19:06] <timbomel_syndrom> ok
[19:06] <timbomel_syndrom> to sum up
[19:06] <timbomel_syndrom> regulator input volt:5v output volt: 3.3v output amp: max 100/200mA
[19:06] <timbomel_syndrom> correct?
[19:07] <jonsowman> minimum 100mA
[19:07] <jonsowman> pointless going for more than 1A though - they're more expensive and you don't need it
[19:08] <timbomel_syndrom> min output 100mA ?
[19:08] <timbomel_syndrom> but when the fsa03 will need 40
[19:08] <timbomel_syndrom> ?
[19:08] <timbomel_syndrom> the reg will keep sending 100 ?
[19:09] <jonsowman> regulator current rating means the maximum the reg can supply
[19:09] <timbomel_syndrom> and was the minimum 100mA u said?
[19:09] <jonsowman> i think that's sensible, yes
[19:10] <timbomel_syndrom> bah i feel so noob
[19:10] <timbomel_syndrom> asking too much
[19:10] <jonsowman> no worries :)
[19:10] <timbomel_syndrom> so
[19:10] <timbomel_syndrom> my last phrase was ok?
[19:10] <jonsowman> yup
[19:10] <timbomel_syndrom> max output amp: 100 or 200mA
[19:11] <jonsowman> 3.3V linear regulator capable of taking 5V input, output current capability 100mA minimum
[19:11] <timbomel_syndrom> oh jonsowman !
[19:11] <timbomel_syndrom> u get me confused !
[19:11] <jonsowman> if it can handle more current, that's fine, but not required
[19:11] <jonsowman> hehe sorry
[19:11] <jonsowman> what's confusing?
[19:11] <timbomel_syndrom> haha
[19:12] <timbomel_syndrom> i got the syndrom now. i get sick easily.
[19:12] <fsphil> lol
[19:12] <fsphil> it's a tricky one to put in words
[19:12] <timbomel_syndrom> try to understand my noobish words as I understand them :!!!!!!
[19:13] <timbomel_syndrom> the reg can supply up to 200mA
[19:13] <fsphil> the regulator will only supply as much as the circuit needs
[19:13] <timbomel_syndrom> yes up to a max point
[19:13] <jonsowman> correct
[19:13] <fsphil> yes
[19:14] <jonsowman> brb, dinner
[19:14] <timbomel_syndrom> if my circuit requires 300mA and reg gives max 200mA then is a problem
[19:14] <timbomel_syndrom> correct?
[19:14] <fsphil> yes
[19:14] <timbomel_syndrom> ok so
[19:14] <fsphil> the regulator will probably heat up, and the voltage will drop
[19:15] <timbomel_syndrom> the max output i will want from reg is lets say 200mA
[19:15] <fsphil> but if your circuit only needs 40mA, then that's all that will flow through the regulator
[19:15] <timbomel_syndrom> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[19:15] <timbomel_syndrom> the reg will then give just 40mA
[19:15] <fsphil> yes
[19:15] <timbomel_syndrom> ok
[19:15] <timbomel_syndrom> so
[19:16] <timbomel_syndrom> i need a reg: inputV 5v, outputV 3.3v, max ampere output 200mA
[19:16] <timbomel_syndrom> yes or no ?
[19:16] <fsphil> minimum 200mA
[19:16] <timbomel_syndrom> oh man
[19:17] <fsphil> you want a regulator that can work up to 200mA, at least
[19:17] <timbomel_syndrom> y
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[19:17] <timbomel_syndrom> i dont get the minimum
[19:17] <timbomel_syndrom> up to means max
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[19:18] <fsphil> that's true actually :)
[19:18] <timbomel_syndrom> eee why u say min then ?
[19:18] <timbomel_syndrom> both of u
[19:19] <fsphil> I think we've both got our terms mixed up
[19:19] <fsphil> strange
[19:20] <fsphil> so yes, you're right :)
[19:20] <fsphil> a 100mA regulator will be fine too
[19:20] <timbomel_syndrom> in plain words i understood that the reg will must be capable of providing me up to 200mA
[19:21] <fsphil> exactly
[19:21] <timbomel_syndrom> ok
[19:21] <timbomel_syndrom> why 100mA?
[19:21] <timbomel_syndrom> fsa03 doesnt need 200mA?
[19:21] <fsphil> yep
[19:21] <timbomel_syndrom> maybe it likes more to get lock the stupid
[19:21] <fsphil> let me check which one I'm using
[19:22] <timbomel_syndrom> and say that i did the reg thing
[19:22] <timbomel_syndrom> if the gps still fails?
[19:25] <fsphil> I'm not sure - there isn't much else to try
[19:26] <timbomel_syndrom> yes there is
[19:26] <fsphil> powering it from a logic pin is definitely not good, even if it did work for a time
[19:26] <timbomel_syndrom> I will fill helium my stomach I will take my canon and jaja !
[19:27] <timbomel_syndrom> its not a logic pin
[19:27] <timbomel_syndrom> its vcc 3.3v pin
[19:27] <fsphil> what's the chip?
[19:28] <timbomel_syndrom> its the usual ftdi chip
[19:29] <timbomel_syndrom> I also screwed up soldering the radio shield
[19:29] <timbomel_syndrom> i should have paid that guy a 10$ to do it for me
[19:29] <timbomel_syndrom> i though it will come assembled
[19:30] <timbomel_syndrom> everrying sucks
[19:30] <timbomel_syndrom> 100euro damage
[19:30] <timbomel_syndrom> if gps is not locking i will give up
[19:30] <timbomel_syndrom> dont have moeny
[19:30] <timbomel_syndrom> neither work
[19:31] <timbomel_syndrom> i borrow from my bro everytime
[19:31] <timbomel_syndrom> but thats enough
[19:33] <fsphil> aah I see the 3v3 pin now.. 50ma max
[19:34] <fsphil> the fsa03 breakout board says between 20-100 mA , so yes a 200mA regulator might be safer
[19:35] <fsphil> leaves plenty of room if needed
[19:35] <timbomel_syndrom> thx for yourhelp fsphil
[19:36] <fsphil> and relax .. you'll get there :)
[19:36] <timbomel_syndrom> bah..Difficult. I calm now looking at this. http://www.astrovox.gr/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=10933
[19:36] <timbomel_syndrom> amateur astronomers
[19:37] <fsphil> nice .. that's way better than any of my moon pics
[19:37] <timbomel_syndrom> you got telescope?
[19:38] <fsphil> yea, little refractor scope
[19:38] <timbomel_syndrom> I heard on the news that something happened on the sun
[19:38] <timbomel_syndrom> and on 4th a somewhat storm will come
[19:39] <timbomel_syndrom> and react with magnetic field
[19:39] <fsphil> aah, that can trigger the aurora
[19:40] <fsphil> I've only ever seen that once
[19:40] <timbomel_syndrom> http://www.astrovox.gr/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=10983
[19:40] <timbomel_syndrom> yes
[19:40] <timbomel_syndrom> sun looks hot
[19:40] <timbomel_syndrom> :)
[19:41] <fsphil> I wish it appeared here more ;-)
[19:41] <timbomel_syndrom> with all the money i spend until know for HAB i could buy a decent telescope
[19:41] <timbomel_syndrom> fsphil uk?
[19:42] <fsphil> yea, cloudy grey land
[19:42] <timbomel_syndrom> :)
[19:43] <timbomel_syndrom> but now its cool up there
[19:43] <timbomel_syndrom> here today i had 37C
[19:43] <timbomel_syndrom> and cyprus 46C !
[19:43] <fsphil> it's a warm 20c in my room right now :D
[19:44] <timbomel_syndrom> oooooooh yeah
[19:44] <timbomel_syndrom> the best temp to have sex eat, sleep code :)
[19:44] <fsphil> 14c outside
[19:44] <timbomel_syndrom> here u move u melt
[19:44] <fsphil> in that order? :)
[19:45] <timbomel_syndrom> yes
[19:45] <fsphil> haha
[19:45] <timbomel_syndrom> sex spends calories
[19:45] <timbomel_syndrom> with food you come to the right level
[19:45] <timbomel_syndrom> then sleep cause u r heavy
[19:45] <timbomel_syndrom> then wakeup in the middle of the night while girl is sneaking
[19:45] <timbomel_syndrom> and u start coding
[19:45] <timbomel_syndrom> :)
[19:47] <fsphil> coding makes me hungry
[19:47] <timbomel_syndrom> yeah
[19:48] <timbomel_syndrom> but makes me happy too !
[19:58] <fsphil> me too, when it works ;)
[19:59] <timbomel_syndrom> brb
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[20:08] <Randomskk> man
[20:08] <Randomskk> this is what I get for being at work all day
[20:09] <Randomskk> centos nooooooooo :(
[20:09] <Randomskk> but like
[20:09] <Randomskk> it's friggin powerful
[20:09] <Randomskk> why not run VMs
[20:09] <Randomskk> we have buttloads of disk
[20:09] <Randomskk> centos works plenty well enough as a host machine
[20:09] <Randomskk> and then we can have sexy OSs like debian in the VM
[20:09] <Randomskk> plus, no worries about giving out access or having to drive over if shit->fan
[20:10] <Randomskk> uh, relevent people include DanielRichman Upu jonsowman and others?
[20:11] <DanielRichman> hmm?
[20:11] <Randomskk> ^
[20:11] <DanielRichman> and yeah Randomskk we haven't done anything yet
[20:11] <Randomskk> apparently I have a login
[20:11] <Randomskk> sexy times
[20:11] <DanielRichman> we were waiting for you and james
[20:11] <DanielRichman> so yeah you have a login but that's it
[20:11] <Randomskk> it's been like a year since I last had a big dedicated box at my disposal
[20:11] <DanielRichman> so what's your position on dedi vs linode
[20:12] <DanielRichman> given taht it is indeed a big dedicated box
[20:12] <Randomskk> can anyone confirm the ssh host fingerprint?
[20:12] <DanielRichman> well I can tell you the one I'm getting but I didn't bother checking it myself
[20:12] <Randomskk> may as well
[20:13] <Randomskk> well like
[20:13] <Randomskk> I stand by what I said wrt a linode is totally under our control, sufficiently powerful, doesn't depend on any one person, runs sexy operating systems, is readily reflashable and upgradable and backupable and all that over the web control panel
[20:13] <DanielRichman> (how do I get a human readable copy out of known host)?
[20:13] <Randomskk> but turning down a friggin big server
[20:14] <Randomskk> if we put some VMs on it I'd be happier
[20:14] <Randomskk> I have been using centos for work
[20:14] <Randomskk> it's really bad
[20:14] <DanielRichman> :D
[20:14] <Randomskk> like, it's Stable
[20:14] <Randomskk> but that's because everything in it is years and years old
[20:14] <Randomskk> the latest desktop version can't run chrome
[20:14] <DanielRichman> flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm syscall nx lm constant_tsc pni monitor ds_cpl cid cx16 xtpr
[20:15] <DanielRichman> uh whoops.
[20:15] <Randomskk> does it have a hostname
[20:15] <Randomskk> also did we get a domain
[20:15] <DanielRichman> we haven't yet, I don't think
[20:15] <DanielRichman> didn't want to launch into it without hearing from you or james
[20:15] <Randomskk> I'm happy with habhub as a name, we can point that at anything we want
[20:15] <Randomskk> don't know how we want to organise shared ownership of a domain
[20:16] <Randomskk> I recommend namecheap for a registrar
[20:16] <Randomskk> they are cheap, good, well supported, have a good web panel, don't upsell you
[20:16] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: the cpus don't support hardware virt
[20:16] <Randomskk> oh, that's what you were pointing out
[20:16] <Randomskk> allow
[20:16] <Randomskk> okay w/o hardware virt VMs would be a bit slow
[20:17] <DanielRichman> rjh likes centos
[20:17] <DanielRichman> but I thin I agree with you
[20:17] <Randomskk> rjh is Business
[20:17] <Randomskk> Businesses like centos for some reason
[20:17] <DanielRichman> I'm also already missing the nice and clean feel that debian has
[20:17] <Randomskk> something to do with it being old as hills
[20:17] <Randomskk> yum is terrible, too
[20:17] <Randomskk> it's so friggin slow
[20:17] <Randomskk> c.f. apt
[20:17] <DanielRichman> for some reason centos' default "server install" has included some gnome2 packages
[20:17] <Randomskk> yum search hits up the servers every time it appears
[20:18] <DanielRichman> really?
[20:18] <Randomskk> maybe it can be turned off
[20:18] <DanielRichman> that's just... daah
[20:18] <Randomskk> it does at work
[20:18] <Randomskk> also this might be just me but it seems to be taking aaages to ssh in?
[20:18] <DanielRichman> Yep I get that too
[20:18] <DanielRichman> I get in fine but it has a massive delay
[20:18] <DanielRichman> but once I'm in the pings are fine
[20:18] <DanielRichman> no lag on the term
[20:19] <fsphil> dns not setup correctly?
[20:19] <Randomskk> [adam@ukhas ~]$ time yum search apache > /dev/null
[20:19] <Randomskk> real 0m1.501s
[20:19] <Randomskk> adam@paladin ~: time apt-cache search apache > /dev/null
[20:19] <Randomskk> real 0m0.690s
[20:19] <DanielRichman> it's called httpd
[20:19] <Randomskk> it's more a comparison
[20:19] <DanielRichman> ok.
[20:19] <Randomskk> the former is this massive dedicated
[20:19] <Upu> DNS should be fine
[20:19] <Upu> logs in quick for mwe
[20:19] <Randomskk> the latter is a small vps
[20:19] <Upu> [ants@ukhas ~]$ cat /etc/resolv.conf
[20:19] <Upu> nameserver 208.67.222.222
[20:19] <Upu> nameserver 208.67.220.220
[20:19] <fsphil> how often are you running yum?
[20:19] <DanielRichman> yeah but jonsowman reckons that your small vps has access to some fairly hench cpu power since the servers arn't very crowded
[20:20] <Randomskk> kind of true, but apt-cache doesn't really hit cpu
[20:20] <Randomskk> anyway ssh being slow appears to be down to auth methods that are configured
[20:20] <Randomskk> same with all the rhel boxes I ssh to actually
[20:20] <Upu> you probably aren't going to be able to virtualise as the CPU/Board won't do it also it's only got 3Gb of RAM
[20:21] <Upu> but the CPUs are beefy it's got a hardware RAID10 so it should be fairly quick
[20:21] <Upu> using putty it logs in fairly instantly
[20:21] <Randomskk> does it have a dns name at all at the moment or shall I go for a hosts entry?
[20:21] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: the only way to replace the OS without brutally and unfairly forcing someone to drive to the colo would be to use some strange hacky debootstrapping or a preseeded netboot iso loaded via grub (unattended; cross fingers)
[20:22] <Randomskk> unattended OS reflashing is awesome(ly dangerous)
[20:22] <DanielRichman> exactly
[20:22] <Upu> lol
[20:22] <Randomskk> netboot via grub, you know what would go wrong
[20:22] <Randomskk> "press enter to continue"
[20:22] <DanielRichman> I'm actually downloading a centos iso to put in a VM just to see if I could do it
[20:22] <Randomskk> hehe
[20:22] <DanielRichman> curios and bored >.>
[20:22] <Randomskk> no way to get kvm or serial access out of band?
[20:22] <Upu> Personally Centos is very stable not had an issue with it but it's not as hackable as Debian, if you actually can't live without Debian I can sort it out but will be a week or two before I can get out to the colo but I will do it not a problem
[20:22] <Upu> no Remote management sorry
[20:23] <Upu> if you want to buy a eRic card be my guest :)
[20:23] <Randomskk> hehe :P
[20:23] <DanielRichman> well CentOS isn't the end of the world. The real question we have to discuss involves the advantages of vpses vs a free dedi. monster b ox
[20:23] <Randomskk> the idea of an unattended netboot without any fallback scares me, but you could probably also configure it to boot back to centos if it all went wrong or on timeout or such
[20:23] <DanielRichman> oh I thought of a second way of doing it
[20:23] <Randomskk> yea, quite true, centos really isn't that bad or anything
[20:23] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: oh?
[20:24] <Upu> have a think about it afk a little
[20:24] <DanielRichman> you can't mod the main partition while it's running.... so delete the swap and debootstap into there, boot into it, do the main install...
[20:24] <DanielRichman> sacrifice something to the gods
[20:24] <Randomskk> lots of sacrifice here
[20:24] <DanielRichman> it's all LVM though; I have no idea how that is used; might cause problems
[20:24] <Randomskk> LVM would (read: should) make it easier
[20:25] Action: Randomskk runs lvm for all his systems by default
[20:25] <DanielRichman> oh yeah; you can shrink and move partitions around while they're running?
[20:25] <Randomskk> sshing is much faster once I give it a hosts entry
[20:25] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: yeeeeaaaa. kinda.
[20:25] <DanielRichman> :D
[20:26] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: the thing about the ubuntu netboot iso is that there's nothing on the CD that the installer uses. All the code and packages is in teh initrd
[20:26] <DanielRichman> so you set it up to boot and it can overwrite the whole thing on autopilot
[20:26] <DanielRichman> bricking the box in the process
[20:26] <Randomskk> and the machine will have net access on boot?
[20:26] <DanielRichman> I call it netboot out of habit; that's the debian name
[20:26] <DanielRichman> the actual name is mini.iso
[20:26] <Randomskk> and it gives it some kind of default password we can use?
[20:27] <Randomskk> like, is it a totally unattended install?
[20:27] <DanielRichman> I think you could preseed the installer to get as far as DHCPing and starting ssh
[20:27] <DanielRichman> you could preseed the installer to go the whole way but that's Asking For It
[20:27] <DanielRichman> infact anything is asking for it
[20:27] <Randomskk> is it on dhcp atm?
[20:27] <Randomskk> how else would you do it if not going the whole awy
[20:27] <Randomskk> way
[20:27] <DanielRichman> Ubuntu mini.iso has an optioal component called remote install
[20:28] <DanielRichman> once you've set up net (or had the preseed file set up net) it starts a ssh server; you can ssh in and do the install
[20:28] <Randomskk> and if you don't ssh in?
[20:28] <Randomskk> (is there a timeout at all?)
[20:28] <DanielRichman> You could patch it in
[20:28] <DanielRichman> but I expect it would sit there
[20:29] <DanielRichman> If you google mini.iso and download it; open it up, extract the initrd.gz and guznip; open the archive, you can hack the installer
[20:29] <DanielRichman> then you can put it back together with various commands to make the cd bootable
[20:29] <DanielRichman> or in this case you don't need that step since yo'd just put it on / and have grub start it
[20:30] <DanielRichman> not that I'm suggesting this; such a plan would be mad
[20:30] <DanielRichman> preseeds are a bit of a pain so I'm going to see if I can hack ssh support in directly.
[20:30] <DanielRichman> or failing that put the preseed in the initrd
[20:32] <fsphil> woo, hadie's on the map - gps parser mostly working :)
[20:33] <Randomskk> there are like, a hundred discrete ways this could go wrong
[20:33] <Randomskk> and only one in which it works
[20:33] <DanielRichman> With a timeout in theory you could make it fairly resillient
[20:33] <DanielRichman> It's also why I'm playing in a VM
[20:33] <DanielRichman> and not on a box
[20:34] <Randomskk> if it worked all the time on a vm...
[20:34] <Randomskk> I mean, people do it
[20:34] <DanielRichman> IF. it works
[20:34] <DanielRichman> and os selection becomes a possibility
[20:34] <DanielRichman> then you have to do the distro flamewar / vote email
[20:34] <DanielRichman> and work up a majority for Ubuntu
[20:34] <DanielRichman> (or Debian)
[20:34] <fsphil> euuubuntu ;-)
[20:35] <Randomskk> ubuntu on a server isn't all that bad, it's like debian but with even more up to date packages
[20:35] <Randomskk> but, updates all the time
[20:35] <Randomskk> I'd support ubuntu if it came up
[20:35] <DanielRichman> well it'd be nice to avoid dependency hell getting a version of django > 1
[20:35] <DanielRichman> debian stable is 0.9
[20:35] <Randomskk> ah
[20:35] <Randomskk> though there is an argument for virtualenv
[20:35] <DanielRichman> ((I think))
[20:36] <Randomskk> for things like django you want the latest stable from them, not from your OS
[20:36] <Randomskk> are you reading http://www.underhanded.org/papers/debian-conversion/remotedeb.html
[20:37] <Randomskk> it looks interesting
[20:38] <DanielRichman> no; I use mini.iso for all my debian installs
[20:38] <DanielRichman> so had a vague idea
[20:39] <DanielRichman> good that someone's documented it; /me reads
[20:39] <Randomskk> that is a slightly different process
[20:39] <Randomskk> it involves installing a lot of the system while still running the old system
[20:39] <Randomskk> including the new kernel, the new network settings, the new ssh server
[20:39] <DanielRichman> yeah that's the debootstrap chroot method
[20:39] <DanielRichman> I don't like it
[20:39] <DanielRichman> there are some odd things that the debian installer does that arn't perfectly replicated
[20:40] <Upu> lvm means you can resize / reallocate partitons on the fly
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[20:40] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: fair enough
[20:40] <Randomskk> hi rjharrison
[20:40] <Upu> Hi Rob :)
[20:40] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: not to rule it out though
[20:40] <Upu> welcome to Centos vs Debian
[20:40] <DanielRichman> Round one; ding
[20:40] <fsphil> purple!
[20:40] <DanielRichman> purple?
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[20:40] <fsphil> (bad sci-fi joke)
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[20:40] <timbobel> evenin
[20:40] <DanielRichman> hey timbobel
[20:40] <rjharrison> Hey Randomskk
[20:41] <rjharrison> Upu hehe
[20:41] <JackNorris> Centos
[20:41] <DanielRichman> oh what have you done now Upu
[20:41] <rjharrison> Centos is already on the server surly that counts for something
[20:42] <DanielRichman> indeed it does Randomskk
[20:42] <DanielRichman> * rjharrison
[20:42] <rjharrison> Seriously is there really an issue with the flavor. I don't think we're going to be held back by having Centos on there
[20:43] <Upu> People always have prefered disties however be objective if you tell me why Centos won't do the job I'll happily drive out to Manchester and reload it no question at all
[20:43] <DanielRichman> no Upu we would never ask you to do that
[20:43] <Upu> Collectively I'm pretty sure you can resolve any issue that server may throw at you
[20:44] <Randomskk> at any rate, there's no reason not to play with it a bit, and we do still need to have this vps/dedi discussion I guess, but
[20:44] <rjharrison> We need access to mysql php and apache and and php Basically LAMP
[20:44] <Randomskk> personally while centos can obviously be worked with and is massively stable and doesn't suddenly have any issues, getting it to do a lot of recent things can be a total and utter pain in the arse given its massively out of date packages
[20:44] <Randomskk> probably not apache, looking at things
[20:44] <rjharrison> Centos & any other distro can do that
[20:44] <Randomskk> and mysql might be replaced by couchdb
[20:44] <Upu> in that case Randomskk I'll get it reloaded honestly it's not an issue
[20:44] <Randomskk> we also need recent python for a lot of the project plans
[20:45] <Randomskk> Upu: no rush at all though
[20:45] <DanielRichman> Upu: don't drive out there just yet; honestly
[20:45] <JackNorris> Theres a reason they are out of date you know
[20:45] <Randomskk> JackNorris: I know, and I appreciate why
[20:45] <Randomskk> and it makes perfect sense in some situations
[20:45] <rjharrison> Right lets but that one to bed for a while
[20:45] <rjharrison> putt
[20:45] <DanielRichman> as Randomskk said we still need to have the vps vs dedi debate
[20:46] <Randomskk> I understand its use in certain roles, though personally I'd still be deploying a more up to date OS
[20:46] <DanielRichman> also the desire for a deb. based system is less than the inconvenience caused to you to drive out there; You've already offered a monster box which is crazy generous of you
[20:46] <DanielRichman> for us to turn around ask you to go and install a different OS is a bit beyond what anyone would be expected to do
[20:46] <Randomskk> work use RHEL for deployment and thus make us all work on CentOS for 'binary compatibility', personally I think that's a load of shit as we're writing PHP anyway >_>
[20:46] <Upu> honestly it was only going to sit on a shelf as spare parts
[20:46] <rjharrison> Why would we want to cough up 240 quid for a VPS when we have one for free
[20:46] <Randomskk> Upu: sitting on a shelf doesn't consume power or bandwidth, of course
[20:46] <Upu> Honestly don't mind
[20:46] <Upu> there is no power or bandwidth
[20:47] Action: Upu makes mystical swishing
[20:47] <rjharrison> Lets go with this and if it proves a problem then we can always change to VPS
[20:47] <fsphil> you need to teach me that trick Upu ;D
[20:48] <rjharrison> If everything is in GIT it will only take a day max to get another server up and online
[20:48] <Randomskk> yea
[20:48] <Randomskk> I agree, we want to keep everything as agile as possible
[20:48] <Randomskk> servers still have to be configured and things though
[20:48] <rjharrison> Yep
[20:48] <jonsowman> there's that word again
[20:48] <Randomskk> hush you
[20:48] <jonsowman> hehe
[20:48] <Randomskk> hi jonsowman :P
[20:48] <jonsowman> :D
[20:48] <jonsowman> hello
[20:49] <Randomskk> agile is good you weirdo
[20:49] <jonsowman> no I know
[20:49] <jonsowman> I agree really
[20:49] <Randomskk> another good reason for virtualenv for python packages, that said
[20:49] <Randomskk> but you don't keep the whole virtualenv inside git
[20:49] <Randomskk> however a couple of days should certainly be enough to set things up on a totally new server, what matters to us is the source code we have and develop
[20:49] <rjharrison> True, but it really wouldn't be the end of the world on the off chance that this dedicated server in a data warehouse isn't stable enough for us
[20:49] <Randomskk> I agree
[20:50] <rjharrison> Randomskk and that will all be in GIT
[20:50] <Upu> well before I reloaded it it had 700 days + uptime
[20:50] <jonsowman> whoa
[20:50] <Upu> it's a solid box
[20:50] <jonsowman> nice :)
[20:50] <Randomskk> saddest thing about the place I worked at suddenly going into administration
[20:50] <rjharrison> I think that has been agreed (GIT for all code)
[20:50] <Randomskk> ten servers with uptime since '03
[20:50] <jonsowman> Randomskk: D:
[20:50] <rjharrison> Randomskk cool
[20:51] <jonsowman> that's terrible
[20:51] <Randomskk> all having to be shut down
[20:51] <Randomskk> it was so traumatic
[20:51] <rjharrison> They must be out of date :)
[20:51] <Randomskk> anyway yes, my vote is for the dedicated for the time being
[20:51] <DanielRichman> were they running some archaic kernel riddled with bugs and rootkit vulns?
[20:51] <Randomskk> rjharrison: nope, guess what os
[20:51] <Randomskk> centos
[20:51] <Randomskk> they were totally up to date, but it hasn't released anything since 03 :P
[20:51] <rjharrison> hehe cool
[20:51] <Randomskk> </tease>
[20:51] <jonsowman> haha
[20:51] <DanielRichman> :P
[20:51] <rjharrison> It's my favorite for work stuff
[20:51] <DanielRichman> saw that one coming
[20:51] <jonsowman> me too
[20:52] <Randomskk> it's so Enterprisey
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[20:52] <Randomskk> that's a good and a bad thing
[20:52] <jonsowman> you working all week Randomskk?
[20:52] <Randomskk> but for all the sexy new things people have made in the last year or two, it's a bad thing
[20:52] <Randomskk> jonsowman: yes. and all next week. and all next week. and so on. D:
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[20:52] <jonsowman> bummer
[20:52] <jonsowman> anyway saturday kept free
[20:52] <rjharrison> Any launches planned
[20:53] Action: jonsowman wanders into private msgs for off-topicness
[20:55] <Randomskk> I am in the planning stage of a launch with jonsowman
[20:55] <Randomskk> but no timeline yet
[20:55] <fsphil> jonsowman, any improvement with the noaa servers?
[20:55] <jonsowman> fsphil: all up and running again
[20:56] <jonsowman> should all be fine now
[20:56] <fsphil> excellent
[20:56] <jonsowman> have reversed my horrible ffs-make-the-damn-thing-work patch
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[20:58] <fsphil> working nicely -- the winds sure are all over the place at the moment. one day it's perfect, the next day it's splash
[21:00] <timbobel> make a floater come to holland again =D
[21:00] <fsphil> haha
[21:01] <fsphil> knowing my luck it would sink ;-)
[21:01] <timbobel> knowing my skills i would still pick it up, and then some!
[21:01] <fsphil> get out the scuba gear
[21:01] <Upu> Amazing video timbobel
[21:01] <timbobel> oh i'd just borrow a submarine
[21:01] <fsphil> lol
[21:02] <timbobel> Upu: thanks, i should be respected: i used windows video maker
[21:02] <Upu> sssh don't mention operating systems on here :)
[21:02] <timbobel> i only got a blue crash screen with while capitals twice
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[21:02] <Upu> what's the URL again please for the decent video ?
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[21:03] <timbobel> www.hollandshoogte.nl
[21:03] <Upu> ta
[21:03] <fsphil> yea, that video made me dizzy watching it
[21:03] <timbobel> i think the falcom broke though..
[21:04] <timbobel> the rest works 100%! still ready for next launch.. since i have helium left, i can launch whenever i want
[21:05] <rjharrison> Upu I'll let you know when I get my permission through for York
[21:05] <Upu> yeah please do I almost have a working flight computer
[21:05] <Upu> do you mind if I use your RTTY code ?
[21:05] <Randomskk> epic video timbobel
[21:05] <rjharrison> I'm going to spend some time with the wife
[21:06] <rjharrison> Upu please do it's there for all
[21:06] <Upu> thx in that case I have a flight computer on a bread board probably wokring
[21:06] <rjharrison> Quite a few people have found that helpfull
[21:06] <rjharrison> properly ?
[21:06] <timbobel> rjharrisons code is like a coca cola
[21:07] <timbobel> its there for ever
[21:07] <Upu> well it's reading temperature, GPU and parsing it into a telemetry script
[21:07] <rjharrison> It's not great code DanielRichman is far better at coding than I am
[21:07] <Upu> I'm buying a radio at the end of the month so I can test the radio bit
[21:07] <Upu> then if all is good going to design a PCB
[21:07] <jonsowman> decided on a radio yet?
[21:07] <Upu> 817
[21:08] <rjharrison> The RTTY code I wrote is quite clean and easy for people to follow though
[21:08] <timbobel> upu: yeasu817
[21:08] <Upu> yeah
[21:08] <Upu> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/yaesu-ft817nd-transceiver-p-348.html?osCsid=64f1baa3b074168a3500e80dac6c693a
[21:08] <Upu> that one
[21:08] <jonsowman> nice
[21:08] <jonsowman> :)
[21:08] <timbobel> yeah its kinda tight/failsafe, thats what we need
[21:08] <rjharrison> Upu good choice for HAB
[21:08] <jonsowman> excellent piece of kit
[21:08] <fsphil> my interrupt driven rtty code is up on github too, if you're using an avr.
[21:08] <timbobel> 480 quid.. i got mine for 350 euro's (1 month old)
[21:08] <Upu> interupts yeah not played with them my code is pretty simple
[21:09] <fsphil> yep - probably best to stick to the normal one unless you need to do extra work
[21:09] <timbobel> so i had the press over today; photographer included.
[21:09] <timbobel> lets see tomorrow what's said
[21:10] <Upu> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yaesu-FT-817-ND-Accessories-/160464068563?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item255c675fd3#ht_500wt_1154
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[21:11] <jonsowman> oh didn't realise james was here
[21:11] <jonsowman> has he been updated on server situation?
[21:11] <fsphil> that's everything you'd ever need Upu
[21:11] <Randomskk> that 817 looks quite good
[21:13] <Randomskk> excellent set of accessories
[21:13] <Randomskk> from banstead, surrey eh :o
[21:13] <jonsowman> heh about 10 mins away from me
[21:13] <timbobel> nice 817
[21:14] <jonsowman> hehe should have kept that to yourself Upu
[21:14] <Upu> :)
[21:14] <Randomskk> man, I wish I could just post flickr my photos
[21:14] <Randomskk> I have like 3gb of output jpgs I want to upload
[21:14] <Randomskk> going to take years
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[21:19] <jonsowman> hehe
[21:19] <jonsowman> i should use flickr more
[21:19] <jonsowman> i don't really like it though
[21:19] <Randomskk> wish I'd done this at uni
[21:19] <jonsowman> <3 janet
[21:20] <Randomskk> also jUploader appears to load them all into memory several times
[21:20] <Randomskk> it used several gig and started eating swap
[21:20] <jonsowman> :o
[21:20] <Randomskk> just doing a hundred jpgs
[21:20] <jonsowman> why :s
[21:20] <Upu> I'm trialing VDSL fibre to cab at home and I get 8Mb/sec uploads
[21:20] <Randomskk> written in java
[21:20] <Upu> I like it
[21:20] <jonsowman> oh
[21:20] <Randomskk> !
[21:20] <Randomskk> wish I had fibre
[21:20] <Randomskk> well janet at uni is wonderful
[21:20] <Randomskk> 100mbps
[21:21] <jonsowman> track driving for birthday present
[21:21] <jonsowman> \o/
[21:21] <Randomskk> :o very nice
[21:22] <Upu> thats awesome my wife bought me that
[21:22] <Upu> what you driving ?
[21:22] timbomel_syndrom (timbomel_s@ppp089210140086.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[21:22] <timbomel_syndrom> hi
[21:22] <jonsowman> not entirely sure yet
[21:22] <jonsowman> haven't decided
[21:22] <Upu> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/upuaut/200811DrivingDreamDays#5379468514370575682
[21:23] <Upu> try one of those
[21:23] <timbomel_syndrom> ping timbobel
[21:23] <Randomskk> right, uploading the first half a gig with this other flickr uploader
[21:23] <Randomskk> this is going to take years and rape my bandwidth while it's at it
[21:23] <Randomskk> sigh
[21:28] <timbobel> _syndrom?!
[21:28] <timbomel_syndrom> :)
[21:28] <timbomel_syndrom> its me m1x10
[21:28] <timbobel> lol haha i dont get it
[21:28] <timbomel_syndrom> from late morning
[21:28] <timbomel_syndrom> fsa03
[21:28] <timbomel_syndrom> is
[21:28] <timbomel_syndrom> d.e.ad
[21:29] <timbomel_syndrom> cannot lock
[21:29] <timbomel_syndrom> so i got the timbomel syndrome
[21:29] <timbomel_syndrom> just like that
[21:29] <timbobel> hahaha ahh like that
[21:29] <timbomel_syndrom> it decided to break
[21:30] <timbobel> well, it seems mine has stopped after crash either.. the other (tyco sirfIII) still works (even better!) he got a lock from a cold start in 1 second with just pinoutput of 40mA
[21:30] <timbobel> who can tell my
[21:30] <timbobel> why the telemetry baud rate
[21:31] <timbobel> should go up to 300 with altitude, and then down to 50 again
[21:32] <timbomel_syndrom> timbobel i dont know man but today everything stalled
[21:32] <timbomel_syndrom> if gps is broken like that I wont replace it and i will give up
[21:32] <fsphil> your telemetry signal changed baud rates during the flight timbobel??
[21:32] <timbobel> no
[21:32] <timbobel> but if
[21:32] <timbobel> like juxta did
[21:32] <fsphil> ah
[21:33] <timbobel> i think it was horus 4
[21:33] <fsphil> that was a test to see how well 300 baud would work
[21:33] <timbomel_syndrom> timbobel you still power the fsa03 from 50mA pin?
[21:33] <timbobel> no
[21:33] <timbobel> voltreg
[21:33] <timbomel_syndrom> and worked?
[21:34] <timbomel_syndrom> !
[21:34] <timbobel> yeah
[21:34] <timbobel> totally
[21:35] <timbomel_syndrom> oh !
[21:35] <timbobel> day of launch i suddenly got a lock.. and i just kept it on for ages until launch
[21:35] <timbobel> then i quickly changed fresh batterys
[21:36] <timbomel_syndrom> so using a reg solved you locking syndrome?
[21:36] <timbomel_syndrom> so using a reg solved your locking syndrome?
[21:38] <timbobel> no
[21:38] <timbobel> i always used it
[21:38] <fsphil> oh great, now mine isn't locking :-p
[21:38] <fsphil> nope there is goes
[21:38] <jonsowman> uh oh...
[21:38] <timbomel_syndrom> wait
[21:38] <fsphil> is=it
[21:39] <timbomel_syndrom> so the reg isnt helping much ?
[21:40] <timbomel_syndrom> and what about now? its still like before? " no lock forever? "
[21:40] <timbomel_syndrom> fsphil lol
[21:40] <timbomel_syndrom> fsphil change your nick plz
[21:40] <fsphil> nah I'm all better now ;-)
[21:40] <timbomel_syndrom> hehe
[21:41] <fsphil> btw my problem seemed to be having the antenna too near two metal posts on the breadboard
[21:41] <timbomel_syndrom> fsphil as you can see, timbobel said that the reg didnt help.
[21:41] <fsphil> it only saw three satellites even when it was by the window
[21:42] <fsphil> even so, you shouldn't power a 40-100mA device from a 50mA supply :)
[21:42] <timbomel_syndrom> you believe i have damaged it
[21:42] <timbomel_syndrom> ?
[21:43] <timbobel> nah not really
[21:43] <timbobel> its an unreliable module
[21:43] <timbobel> i do believe its a good module
[21:43] <timbobel> but its too fragile for proper hab use
[21:43] <fsphil> you can't damage them by under-powering it, but it just won't work well
[21:43] <timbobel> because i think mine died after splashdown
[21:44] <timbobel> fsphil: it will just work slower
[21:44] <timbobel> but it SHOULD work
[21:44] <timbobel> eventually -it doesnt-
[21:44] <jonsowman> maybe its the breakout
[21:44] <timbomel_syndrom> jonsowman agree
[21:44] <fsphil> not necessarily
[21:44] <timbobel> cant imagine..
[21:44] <timbobel> breakout seems fine
[21:44] <timbomel_syndrom> ppl without the breakout dont have bad exp
[21:44] <timbomel_syndrom> only me and timbobel
[21:45] <fsphil> I think earthshine has the esawdust breakout board
[21:45] <fsphil> I wonder if he's had any trouble with it
[21:45] <timbomel_syndrom> timbobel, at the first days was it functional ?
[21:45] <timbomel_syndrom> ping earthshine
[21:45] <timbobel> hmm kinda
[21:46] <timbobel> though still, then please explain how the breakout interfears
[21:46] <timbobel> why did it work fine on my launchday?
[21:46] <timbomel_syndrom> I want to understand if day by day it was getting bad..
[21:46] <timbobel> i dont want to discuss the falcom anymore, it sucks, get a backup module for sure (as i did)
[21:47] <timbomel_syndrom> :(
[21:47] <fsphil> your backup didn't come back up ;-)
[21:49] <timbobel> shhhs
[21:49] <timbobel> it did get a lock while floating
[21:49] <timbobel> the falcom didnt!
[21:49] <timbobel> i was now just reviewing the code
[21:49] <Upu> did the video cut out when it hit the water ?
[21:49] <timbobel> it seems fine..
[21:49] <timbobel> upu: it cut out after 112 mintes; like 10 minutes after balloon pop
[21:49] <timbobel> and it was already on for like 15 mins before launch
[21:49] <Upu> ah ok
[21:50] <fsphil> I wonder if the module was too cold, needed to warm up before it locked again
[21:50] Nick change: timbomel_syndrom -> Ill_never_HAB
[21:50] <Upu> awesome getting it back though from the sea
[21:51] <timbobel> i guess yeah
[22:00] <Ill_never_HAB> One thing I know, the gps stopped locking when I started playing with ublox protocol.
[22:01] <Ill_never_HAB> before protocol everything was running smooth
[22:13] <fsphil> is there a description of the PUBX messages anywhere, for the ubox ?
[22:13] <Ill_never_HAB> what do u wish to do?
[22:16] <Ill_never_HAB> the datasheets have info
[22:23] <timbobel> im out
[22:23] <timbobel> night all
[22:23] timbobel (~timboebl@84-106-10-233.cable.quicknet.nl) left irc:
[22:27] <fsphil> oh I was wondering if the aviation mode could be set with the PUBX messages instead of the binary format
[22:28] <Ill_never_HAB> dunno :(
[22:29] <DanielRichman> IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOMEONE IS DOING SOMETHING NASTY!
[22:29] <DanielRichman> ^^ quote of the day; --openssh
[22:30] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: it works
[22:30] <jonsowman> haha yeh that's a good one
[22:30] <Randomskk> "it"?
[22:30] <Randomskk> your magic?
[22:30] <Randomskk> a centos VM turned into Debian?
[22:30] <Randomskk> essentially alchemy?
[22:30] <jonsowman> oooo
[22:30] <DanielRichman> No I haven't got that far yet
[22:30] <jonsowman> oh
[22:31] <Randomskk> base metals turned into gold? ;P
[22:31] <DanielRichman> but the first stage is work
[22:31] <jonsowman> that'd be excellent
[22:31] <Randomskk> what's the first stage?
[22:31] <jonsowman> can't polish a turd
[22:31] <jonsowman> but you can cover it in glitter
[22:31] <Randomskk> (finding the philosopher's stone?)
[22:31] <Randomskk> jonsowman: not if you have the philosopher's stone
[22:31] <DanielRichman> I've created a linux & initrd.gz combination that will; without human intervention; start the debian installer; DHCP and start a ssh server; and wait for human to connect and do the instakker
[22:31] <DanielRichman> *install
[22:31] <jonsowman> Randomskk: true, who's got it atm
[22:32] <DanielRichman> stage 2 is to add some sort of timeout incase nobody connects; so that it harmlessly reboots
[22:32] <DanielRichman> then stage 3; alchemy
[22:32] <jonsowman> :)
[22:32] <DanielRichman> I've got a centos iso now so I can setup a vm to try it on
[22:32] <Randomskk> excellent
[22:32] <Randomskk> yaesu or icom for a handheld 2m?
[22:33] <Randomskk> there's a £110 yaesu ft-270E
[22:33] <Randomskk> or a £120 icon ic-v80e
[22:34] <Ill_never_HAB> bb all
[22:34] Ill_never_HAB (timbomel_s@ppp089210140086.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: Quit: I eat electrons for breakfast and I vomit thunders
[22:35] <jonsowman> interesting quit msg
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[22:36] <DanielRichman> hmm have thought of a problem; if grub is wired to boot into the installer; and the installer has a timeout that will reboot... grub will just boot the installer again
[22:36] <DanielRichman> is there any way to make grub boot 1-off ?
[22:36] <Randomskk> think so
[22:36] <Randomskk> lilo could
[22:37] <Randomskk> http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=grub+boot+once
[22:37] <Randomskk> echo "savedefault --default=2 --once" | grub --batch
[22:37] <jonsowman> www.lmgtfy.com
[22:37] <jonsowman> hehehe
[22:37] <DanielRichman> oh fair enough :P
[22:38] <DanielRichman> sorry 'bout that
[22:43] <Upu> Bear in mind no DHCP server it's a fixed IP
[22:45] <Randomskk> theoretically that should make it easier
[22:46] <Upu> honestly guys I'll go reload it don't waste time with this :)
[22:46] <Randomskk> if this works it'l still save you the time and effort, and be a load of fun besides
[22:47] <Upu> lol
[22:47] <jonsowman> it would also be Awesome
[22:47] <jonsowman> entirely remote distro-swap
[22:47] <Upu> whatever you do make sure it has drivers for Intel Pro 1Gb NIC and Adaptec 2800 RAID
[22:47] <Randomskk> and nerve-wracking
[22:47] <Upu> it won't work
[22:47] <Upu> :)
[22:47] <jonsowman> haha
[22:48] <jonsowman> optimism, that's what I like
[22:48] <Upu> experience :)
[22:48] <Randomskk> it /could/ work, or at least it could not brick it
[22:48] <Randomskk> if the timeout and grub thing works, it could just come back as centos
[22:49] <Upu> I'll make my payload bright pink if it works
[22:49] <Randomskk> :D
[22:49] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: you *have* to make this work
[22:49] <Randomskk> now that's incentive
[22:49] <jonsowman> pink payload
[22:49] <DanielRichman> :O
[22:50] <DanielRichman> grr; busybox stubbornly refuses to let me daemonize a process with &
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[23:14] <Upu> night all
[23:14] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) left irc:
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[23:22] <DanielRichman> that is seriously weird
[23:22] <DanielRichman> nothing I do will get this process to fork off from busybox
[23:23] <Randomskk> :/
[23:23] <Randomskk> maybe busybox can't
[23:23] <DanielRichman> well I got fed up with ash, teh shell
[23:23] <DanielRichman> so I wrote it in C
[23:23] <DanielRichman> fork, setssid, fork
[23:23] <Randomskk> heh
[23:23] <DanielRichman> and the parent pid is STILL the shell
[23:23] <Randomskk> oh. :/
[23:24] <DanielRichman> if I do it in an interactive shell; ./watch; exit
[23:24] <DanielRichman> then the ppid is still the pid of the old shell
[23:24] <DanielRichman> yet that process is dead.
[23:24] <DanielRichman> Either I'm seriously missing something here or something is wrong
[23:24] <DanielRichman> and I static linked against my copy of glibc, not hte busybox libc
[23:25] <DanielRichman> maybe busybox's init is broken
[23:25] <Randomskk> http://www.busybox.net/FAQ.html#tips_vfork
[23:26] <DanielRichman> but that's in libbb
[23:26] <DanielRichman> I'm using the fork() and vfork() from my own libc
[23:26] <DanielRichman> well; not using vfork
[23:27] <Randomskk> keep reading
[23:27] <Randomskk> maybe, anyway. it talks about daemonising things
[23:29] <DanielRichman> ok
[23:30] <russss> here's that solar flare http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/rt_plots/SatEnv.gif
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[00:00] --- Wed Aug 4 2010