highaltitude.log.20100731

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[00:43] <Laurenceb> fsa03?
[00:43] <Laurenceb> oh hes gone
[00:44] <Laurenceb> ublox5 should get a lock in 30 seconds in my experience - havent tried a falcom module yet, but should hope they work
[00:44] <Laurenceb> :P
[00:44] <Laurenceb> might be power supply noise - ublox hates noisy supplies
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[00:50] <fsphil> fsa03 causes noisy power supply
[00:51] <fsphil> hmm I wonder if he should try powering it separately
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[01:52] <salted> The website is down
[01:52] <salted> Server currently running a prediction, please try again in a few minutes
[01:52] <salted> has had this message for several days
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[05:00] <natrium42> o/
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[06:56] <m1x10> morning all
[06:56] <m1x10> I need a pull-up resistor of about 5 KOhm
[06:57] <m1x10> this is a normal resistor like the usual ?
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[07:35] <m1x10> juxta hi
[07:35] <juxta|console> hey m1x10
[07:35] <juxta|console> how're you doing?
[07:35] <m1x10> im ok and u?
[07:36] <juxta|console> not bad thanks
[07:36] <m1x10> im trying to do the temp sensor DS18B20
[07:36] <m1x10> not bad, hehe. pesimistic view.
[07:36] <m1x10> I found that i need a pull-up resistor of about 5 KOhm for sensor.
[07:37] <m1x10> is this a normal resistor? or some special resistor?
[07:38] <juxta|console> just a normal resistor
[07:38] <juxta|console> 4k7 is close enough
[07:39] <juxta|console> and far more common
[07:39] <m1x10> 4.7kohms ?
[07:41] <juxta|console> yep
[07:41] <m1x10> ok thx.
[07:42] <m1x10> i want to ask something else. are u here?
[07:42] <juxta|console> I sure am
[07:42] <m1x10> i meant if u r busy..
[07:42] <m1x10> ok
[07:42] <m1x10> look
[07:42] <m1x10> to work with fsa03 gps and arduino 5v i bought the logic level converter
[07:43] <juxta|console> yep
[07:43] <m1x10> after some time i realised that i only need the converter for TX line. 5v tx of arduino going to 3.3v rx of gps
[07:43] <juxta|console> correct
[07:44] <m1x10> so now i have lots of wires and complex stuff just for the TX
[07:44] <m1x10> can i somehow remove the converter and convert the 5v down to 3.3v before reaching the gps rx ?
[07:44] <juxta|console> yes - you can do it with 2 resistors
[07:45] <juxta|console> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Impedance_Voltage_divider.png
[07:45] <m1x10> looks simple
[07:45] <juxta|console> Vin would be connected to the arduino, Vout to the GPS
[07:45] <m1x10> y
[07:46] <juxta|console> here's a calculator: http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/calc/potential-divider-calculator.php
[07:46] <m1x10> ah was going to ask this ..
[07:47] <m1x10> ok in the calc i need the "Calculate Resistors (R1 & R2) from Voltage Out (V2):"
[07:47] <m1x10> its asks for "Enter Total Resistance (R1 + R2):"
[07:47] <m1x10> i dont know that
[07:48] <juxta|console> doesnt really matter
[07:48] <juxta|console> you can use a 10k and 20k resistor
[07:48] <juxta|console> that will work fine
[07:48] <m1x10> wait to do it from the calc
[07:48] <m1x10> v1=5, v2=3.3
[07:49] <m1x10> then how to make it calculate
[07:49] <m1x10> doesnt do anything
[07:49] <m1x10> or any button
[07:50] <m1x10> ok, i gave 30kohm for total resistance. it gives me: Preferred R1 = 10k Ohms Preferred R2 = 20k Ohms
[07:51] <m1x10> thats what u already said :)
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[07:52] <juxta|console> hehe
[07:53] <juxta|console> the total resistance isnt so important in this case
[07:53] <m1x10> ok
[07:53] <juxta|console> you could use 1k and 2k if you wanted
[07:53] <m1x10> really?
[07:53] <m1x10> so why not?
[07:53] <m1x10> its safer to use have more resistance?
[07:54] <m1x10> its safer to have more resistance?
[07:55] <juxta|console> doesn't make a difference really
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[08:36] <m1x10> juxta currently i got only 1k and 2k resistors
[08:36] <m1x10> should i go on with these?
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[08:40] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:41] <juxta|console> hey jcoxon
[08:41] <juxta|console> m1x10: yep, that should be fine
[08:41] <m1x10> hi jcoxon
[08:41] <m1x10> ok juxta
[08:41] <jcoxon> ooo voltage dividers
[08:42] <m1x10> :)
[08:42] <jcoxon> m1x10, do you understand why it all works?
[08:42] <m1x10> i want to remove the logic level converter cause its only use is for TX
[08:42] <m1x10> http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/calc/potential-divider-calculator.php
[08:42] <m1x10> :)
[08:43] <jcoxon> from Arduino -> GPS?
[08:43] <m1x10> y
[08:43] <m1x10> I want to remove the converter and convert the 5v down to 3.3v before reaching the gps rx
[08:43] <jcoxon> then this will do the job
[08:43] <m1x10> i will use the divider circuit
[08:43] <m1x10> 1k and 2k
[08:44] <jcoxon> basically the voltage is split between the resistors in a ratio
[08:44] <jcoxon> which allows you to get a lower V2
[08:44] <m1x10> :)
[08:45] <m1x10> voltage divier
[08:45] <m1x10> :p
[08:45] <jcoxon> exactly
[08:46] <m1x10> here i learn more electronics than HABing :)
[08:46] <jcoxon> yeah its important to work out why so that you understand it a bit
[08:46] <jcoxon> rather then just copying the answer from a site
[08:47] <m1x10> yes i agree with u
[08:47] <m1x10> my first thoughts before HABing was to make the HAB in order to learn electronics
[08:47] <m1x10> i sew it as a good opportunity
[08:48] <jcoxon> cool
[08:48] <m1x10> cause i got enough with softwar
[08:48] <jcoxon> next i need to persuade you to solder everything
[08:48] <m1x10> now i need something to build !
[08:48] <jcoxon> :-)
[08:48] <m1x10> haha
[08:48] <m1x10> well, I took my first steps
[08:48] <jcoxon> practise makes perfect
[08:48] <m1x10> I have 4 shields soldered
[08:49] <m1x10> but im not planning to make stripboard soldering
[08:49] <m1x10> all my circuits will be on breadboards :)
[08:49] <jcoxon> *shudder*
[08:49] <m1x10> i know its somewhat strange but..
[08:55] <m1x10> bah
[08:55] <m1x10> too many resistors on breadboard
[08:55] <m1x10> covering empty space
[08:56] <m1x10> using the converter i get much more empty space
[08:57] <jcoxon> juxtaping
[08:57] <jcoxon> juxta|console, ping
[09:10] <juxta|console> hey jcoxon
[09:10] <juxta|console> sorry for the delay, dont think this shell raises noises etc :(
[09:11] <fsphil> you're flying breadboard m1x10?
[09:12] <Upu> morning all
[09:13] <fsphil> morning!
[09:14] <Upu> So back to this radio thing. If I understand correctly when using the NTX2 all you're doing is moving the frequency you transmit at to do the 1's and 0's
[09:14] <fsphil> oh yes
[09:14] <juxta|console> Upu: that's it
[09:15] <Upu> I read on the radiometrix site that using 1.2V for a high and 1v for a low gives the desired effect ?
[09:15] <jcoxon> juxta|console, can i get you to check over a pcb on eagle?
[09:16] <Upu> amends the frequence by 400Hz
[09:16] <jcoxon> Upu, roughly yes - will need some fine tuning
[09:16] <Upu> I can just accept that as being the way it is but I'd prefer to understand why :)
[09:16] <jcoxon> what micro are you using?
[09:16] <Upu> processor ? Arduino at the moment
[09:16] <Upu> 328
[09:17] <jcoxon> Upu, basically freq is linear to input voltage
[09:17] <jcoxon> so with 1v you get X and 1.2v you get X+400hz
[09:17] <jcoxon> ideally you'll want a more standard shift say of 425hz
[09:17] <Upu> if I' have the 434.075 module
[09:18] <juxta|console> jcoxon: sure
[09:18] <Upu> what voltage gives 434.075 Mhz ?
[09:18] <jcoxon> juxta|console, will email you it
[09:18] <juxta|console> okay great
[09:18] <jcoxon> oh its meant to be 1.2v
[09:18] <jcoxon> but it won't be exact
[09:18] <jcoxon> but thats not an issue
[09:19] <jcoxon> it'll be in the region of 434.075
[09:19] <Upu> you say a more standard shift of 425Hz
[09:19] <Upu> whats the best way to calculate the voltages ?
[09:19] <Upu> sorry if I'm sounding thick never used one of these before
[09:20] <jcoxon> hehe its okay
[09:20] <jcoxon> i find that trial and error is best
[09:20] <jcoxon> Upu, http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/ideas:notes
[09:20] <jcoxon> see ascii diagram
[09:20] <fsphil> I used a variable resistor, got it as close to 425hz and then measured it's value - replaced it with the nearest fixed resistor
[09:20] <Upu> oh nice
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[09:21] <Upu> oh thats a question Robs design doesn't seem to use a voltage divider ?
[09:22] <jcoxon> where is robs design?
[09:22] <Upu> or is it
[09:22] <fsphil> the ntx2s tx pin has a 100k resistor inside, the external resistors are the other half of the voltage divider
[09:22] <juxta|console> I used trial and error too ;)
[09:22] <Upu> it does ?
[09:22] <Upu> awesome
[09:22] Action: Upu should read the datasheets
[09:23] <jcoxon> then you just toggle the two pins
[09:23] <jcoxon> and voila 2 tones on your radio
[09:23] <Upu> that bit I get I was just struggling to understand how the 2 resistors externally worked
[09:23] <juxta|console> jcoxon: board looks good - one thing I'm not sure about though is signals under the FSA03 - the datasheet says 'no ground under device' or something, DanielRichman & I were saying we weren't sure if it meant 'there is no ground under the module' or 'don't put a ground under the module' - i just kept it clear of all signals to be on the safe side
[09:23] <Upu> that makes sense now
[09:24] <fsphil> if you're really fancy you can use one pin :)
[09:24] <Upu> I'm not fancy
[09:24] <jcoxon> juxta|console, okay cool
[09:24] <fsphil> yep, 2-pin is way the easiest
[09:25] <jcoxon> though only probably need to route the top layer
[09:25] <juxta|console> yeah, looks good though, nice and small :)
[09:25] <Upu> Thanks for advice appreciated
[09:26] <jcoxon> i'm a bit unsure about the wedge bit to fit the gps antenna
[09:27] <juxta|console> I put mine so that the GPS board was all the way inside the main circuit board
[09:27] <fsphil> goodness, was watching an FT-790 on ebay and it's gone over £100
[09:27] <juxta|console> then modify the dimension layer to follow the curve of the GPS - batchpcb routed it out for me
[09:27] <jcoxon> okay cool
[09:28] <jcoxon> thats what i've done there
[09:28] <juxta|console> looks like the board is sticking out a bit though, you'll have some overhang of the GPS module
[09:28] <fsphil> is eagle pcb as difficult as I seem to be finding it? I can't get my head around it
[09:28] <Upu> takes a little getting use too
[09:29] <juxta|console> unless I'm interpreting it incorrectly
[09:29] <jcoxon> fsphil, yeah its a bit of a steep learning curve
[09:29] <juxta|console> fsphil: another vote for it being a bit fiddly to learn :)
[09:29] <jcoxon> juxta|console, yeah there is a small overhang
[09:29] <fsphil> phew, not just me then :)
[09:29] <jcoxon> not too much though
[09:29] <fsphil> I've been hand drawing pcb's (all very simple so far thankfully)
[09:30] <juxta|console> also jcoxon there's not much clearance between one of those square vias and your TX/RX lines near the top right
[09:30] <jcoxon> juxta|console, moving them now
[09:32] <Upu> 1% tolerance resistors are ok for the NTX circuit ?
[09:33] <juxta|console> Upu: I just use 5%
[09:33] <Upu> ok
[09:39] <jcoxon> the 2 gnds on fsa03 don't need to be connected do they?
[09:42] <juxta|console> jcoxon: not sure, I suspect not - if you have a module maybe test it with a meter
[09:42] <juxta|console> see if they're already connected
[09:43] <jcoxon> ive connected them
[09:43] <jcoxon> i'm sure it'll be fine
[09:43] <jcoxon> right, moved everything out of the module's footprint
[09:44] <jcoxon> and no DRC errors - hooray
[09:48] <juxta|console> :D
[09:48] <juxta|console> are you having a bunch made jcoxon?
[09:48] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:49] <jcoxon> will get 10 from seeedstudio
[09:49] <jcoxon> want some?
[09:52] <juxta|console> sure, pop a couple in when you get the NTX2's :)
[09:52] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:52] <jcoxon> so in a months time :-p
[09:52] <juxta|console> what's the turnaround with seeedstudio generally?
[09:53] <jcoxon> they make them within 5 days
[09:53] <jcoxon> but
[09:53] <jcoxon> then they send them by the post from china
[09:54] <juxta|console> hmm, I will use them next time then
[09:54] <juxta|console> they were closed for holidays last time I had a board made
[09:55] <juxta|console> hey the voice repeater is pretty much ready to fly jcoxon
[09:55] <juxta|console> we built the payload the other day
[09:55] <jcoxon> ooo cool
[09:56] <juxta|console> weight has crept up bit though, and I'm a bit worried about heat dissipation
[09:57] <juxta|console> ironically it'll be hard to keep the thing cool I suspect
[09:58] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:58] <jcoxon> some big heat sinks
[09:58] <Upu> I'm having issues with my active aerial on this GPS, on the circuit diagram there is a 33nH inductor on the VCC to the active aerial, is that just there for protection against shorts do you think ?
[09:58] <Upu> I don't have a 33nH inductor...
[09:59] <juxta|console> inductor wouldnt protect against shorts, more likely it's there as an rf choke/filter I guess
[10:00] <Upu> ok I best include it then
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[10:14] <jcoxon> 23.52 dollars for 10 5cmx5cm 2 sided pcbs is pretty good value
[10:16] <fsphil|t60> including shipping?
[10:16] <jcoxon> yup
[10:16] <jcoxon> slow shipping
[10:16] <fsphil|t60> still, that's great for small volume
[10:16] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[10:17] <jcoxon> fsa03 breakout board coming this way
[10:18] <jcoxon> well once i finish compiling gkt2 so i can use gerbv to check the gerber files
[10:18] <Randomskk> $ sudo apt-get install gerbv; gerbv
[10:18] <Randomskk> hurrah for binary distributions
[10:19] <jcoxon> port install gerbv
[10:19] <jcoxon> hooray for source based distributions :-p
[10:19] <Randomskk> hardly the same thing given as you are now having to pointlessly compile gtk2
[10:19] <Randomskk> what a waste of compute cycles etc
[10:19] <jcoxon> hehe
[10:19] <jcoxon> its keeping me warm though
[10:20] <fsphil|t60> you didn't already have gtk2?
[10:21] <jcoxon> os x
[10:21] <fsphil|t60> aah
[10:21] <jcoxon> bbiab
[10:22] <fsphil|t60> my mac mini nearly melted when I tried to compile dl-fldigi
[10:27] <juxta|console> wow, that's very good jcoxon
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[10:46] <DanielRichman> FSA breakout, you say?
[10:46] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: can I have a look?
[10:50] <jcoxon> yeah one sec
[10:50] <jcoxon> though someone will now find an error
[10:50] <jcoxon> luckily i haven't submitted it yet
[10:50] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/4845466151/
[10:52] <DanielRichman> cool
[10:56] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: might the battery connector short out on that via?
[10:57] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: and it might be worth labeling TX-Output and RX-Input for some super clarity
[10:59] <jcoxon> good points
[10:59] <jcoxon> i've just removed the overhang
[10:59] <jcoxon> loading it into gerbv made it clear what i had to change
[10:59] <DanielRichman> yeah gerbv is great
[11:00] <jcoxon> whats the best way of labelling
[11:00] <jcoxon> just adding text
[11:00] <jcoxon> if you label the object its the whole thing
[11:00] <DanielRichman> you have to make sure the text is on the right layer
[11:01] <DanielRichman> and that the layer you put it on gets selected for GTS output
[11:02] <DanielRichman> and that the font was "vector"
[11:02] <DanielRichman> s/was/is/
[11:07] <griffonbot> Email from Chris Hembrow <chris.hembrow@pixelseventy2.net>: "Re: UKHAS VPS?"
[11:13] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, do you know much about gerbv?
[11:13] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: I use it to check my designs
[11:13] <jcoxon> my drill template doesn't overly the rest - its parallel to it when i open it in gerbv
[11:13] <DanielRichman> yeah I had that
[11:14] <DanielRichman> I found two things causing that
[11:14] <DanielRichman> first was the massive fsa03 antenna overhanging the board was messing things up
[11:14] <DanielRichman> second was that I needed to check Pos. coords & Optimise on the Execllon CAM export to make gerbv happy
[11:15] <DanielRichman> However I hope that those steps were just to please gerbv and not actually necessary
[11:15] <jcoxon> yeah i've used the cam processor file from seeedstudio
[11:15] <jcoxon> seems to have worked
[11:15] <DanielRichman> yeah I started by using seed's cam file
[11:16] <DanielRichman> but ended up using sparkfun's one which is almost the same except for the drill bit
[11:16] <DanielRichman> and on the drill it only differed by the checking of those two boxes ^^
[11:16] <jcoxon> so what should i do?
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[11:19] <DanielRichman> Don't know
[11:19] <DanielRichman> sorry :P
[11:19] <jcoxon> hehe
[11:20] <DanielRichman> try checking pos. coord on the excellon drills export tab
[11:20] <DanielRichman> though I don't know if you're meant to do that
[11:21] <jcoxon> i'm tempted to submit it and see if they complain
[11:21] <griffonbot> Email from Jon Sowman <jon.sowman@gmail.com>: "Re: UKHAS VPS?"
[11:24] <jonsowman> hello all
[11:28] <griffonbot> Email from Michael Connors <connorsml@gmail.com>: "Re: UKHAS VPS?"
[11:28] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, i ticked the pos. Coord and it worked
[11:28] <jcoxon> now lines up
[11:29] <griffonbot> Email from Adam Greig <random@randomskk.net>: "Re: UKHAS VPS?"
[11:48] <jcoxon> okay submitted
[11:49] <jcoxon> bbl
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[12:36] <griffonbot> Email from Ed Moore <eam52@cam.ac.uk>: "Re: UKHAS VPS?"
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[12:46] <griffonbot> @N9XTN: At NSTAR 10B launchsite foggy #arhab [http://twitter.com/N9XTN/status/19986181429]
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[13:07] <eroomde> morning all
[13:08] <DanielRichman> hmm? what timezone are you in?
[13:10] <DanielRichman> but good morning anyway eroomde
[13:11] <DanielRichman> eroomde: maybe it is indeed worth setting up a separate mailing list to discuss ukhas tools integration
[13:11] <DanielRichman> I was reluctant to suggest launching into something without hearing from rjh and natrium though
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[13:15] <eroomde> nowt wrong with setting up a hab-tools list, but obviously they will have a fairly big role in whatever ends up happening
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[13:17] <DanielRichman> so what you're suggesting, eroomde, is that we make sure that all the tools have their own git repos before we start trying anything?
[13:18] <eroomde> essentially. having things in one place rather than spread across disparate machines would be a useful thing
[13:19] <eroomde> otherwise it'll be difficult for people to grok what the system looks like from 10,000ft
[13:21] <DanielRichman> agreed. As far as setting about tying them together goes, I think we need to take stock of what state each tool is in - they're written in so many different languages - and if we are going to start this project, divide up discreet tasks for people to be getting on with
[13:21] <DanielRichman> It was jcoxon who set up the original UKHAS google group?
[13:21] <eroomde> yup
[13:22] <eroomde> yeah. whilst being cautious about adding administrative weight to what should be a fun and small thing, some conventions and coding standards could certainly help
[13:22] <eroomde> fwiw, i'd take python over php
[13:23] <DanielRichman> indeed, caution is defo. needed
[13:23] <DanielRichman> php is horrible
[13:23] <eroomde> and c/c++ for backendey things like landing prediction
[13:24] <eroomde> I'm a big fan of couchDB, i can't break the replication at all. their protocal is so robust and watertight
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[13:24] <eroomde> it takes advantage of a lot of the things that erlang is good at
[13:25] <eroomde> and you write views (from mapreduce) for couch in js
[13:25] <eroomde> which is nice (I think so anyway). It's so webby.
[13:26] <DanielRichman> shall I create ukhas-tools@googlegroups.com
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[13:27] <eroomde> sure. but as you say, no hurry.
[13:32] <DanielRichman> all right. I'll suggest that discussion moves to a separate mailing list
[13:38] <griffonbot> Email from Daniel Richman <main@danielrichman.co.uk>: "Re: UKHAS VPS?"
[13:41] <eroomde> DanielRichman: joined
[13:42] <DanielRichman> cool. There is a danger of an overlap with people who haven't joined the new list missing posts from a restarting discussion, but I guess there is an archiev
[13:43] <DanielRichman> so what "tools" are there? I can think of; tracker, dl-server, dl-client, predictor, calculator
[13:43] <DanielRichman> and we want to add some sort of flight data archive
[13:44] <DanielRichman> as I understand it, all of them except for the tracker and the dl-server already have github repos?
[13:45] <eroomde> i think dl-client is a separate project
[13:45] <eroomde> and not really in the scope of this
[13:47] <eroomde> we're making a back-end for aggregating flight info. there's a spec for curling info into it. how one curls that info in (be it dl-client or otherwsie) is a separate issue
[13:47] <DanielRichman> fair enough
[13:47] <eroomde> some people have much better decoding algorithms than those in fldigi, for-ex
[13:48] <DanielRichman> mmm
[13:48] <eroomde> so yeah - data collection (database), data presentation (maps, graphs), data 'use' (flight prediction) seems to be where it stands at the moment
[13:49] <DanielRichman> I don't know whether the tracker is fully open sauced? Wern't a few tarballs & zips uploaded a while ago?
[13:50] <DanielRichman> it seems to be constantly tweaked on a flight to flight basis
[13:50] <eroomde> exactly, which is obviously a bit sub-optimal
[13:51] <eroomde> i don't think it is open source in principal but not actually in practice - hence this current push
[13:52] <DanielRichman> ok well the predictor and the calculator are easy; jon and adam have the repos in their github; just have the ukhas organisation fork them and that's half way there
[13:52] <eroomde> yep
[13:52] <eroomde> and rjw's predictor (the thing jon and adam forked from) is on github too
[13:52] <eroomde> right gtg for launch
[13:52] <eroomde> bbl
[13:52] <DanielRichman> bye
[13:52] <DanielRichman> (launch?)
[13:53] <eroomde> lunch*
[13:53] <DanielRichman> :(
[13:53] <eroomde> freuduian
[13:54] <DanielRichman> heh
[14:00] <griffonbot> @N9XTN: Nstar 10b launched 0745 cdt going fine #arhab [http://twitter.com/N9XTN/status/19989805061]
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[14:40] <m1x10> ping juxta
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[15:10] <eroomde> l
[15:16] <jonsowman> hello all
[15:17] <jonsowman> just read through that conversation DanielRichman and eroomde
[15:17] <jonsowman> sounds good to me :)
[15:17] <jonsowman> liking the sound of this a lot
[15:17] <DanielRichman> shall I create forks of the predictor v2 & the calculator in the ukhas organisation?
[15:17] <DanielRichman> jonsowman: does the predictor v2 repo contain the source for the actual predictor?
[15:18] <jonsowman> it does
[15:18] <jonsowman> my cusf-standalone-predictor repo is completely self contained
[15:18] <jonsowman> that was the idea from the start, hence the name
[15:18] <DanielRichman> confusing name
[15:18] <jonsowman> it can have the hourly predictor neatly slotted into it as well
[15:19] <DanielRichman> since it's not standalone, it runs on a web server :P
[15:19] <jonsowman> suppose
[15:19] <jonsowman> :P
[15:19] <DanielRichman> "Hardcore Forking Action" -- thx github
[15:19] <DanielRichman> http://github.com/ukhas
[15:20] <jonsowman> heh
[15:20] <jonsowman> :)
[15:20] <DanielRichman> btw shall we "publicise membership"?
[15:20] <DanielRichman> currently apparently the list of people in the organisation is hidden
[15:20] <jonsowman> yep sure
[15:20] <jonsowman> no reason to keep it private
[15:21] <DanielRichman> holy cow rounded corners!
[15:21] <jonsowman> haha
[15:21] <jonsowman> do you like them? :)
[15:22] <DanielRichman> yeah :P
[15:22] <DanielRichman> the antialiasing makes them look a slightly ligher shade of blue thogu
[15:22] <DanielRichman> though if I zoom in, it's fine
[15:22] <eroomde> what are we talking about?
[15:22] <DanielRichman> eroomde: http://hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict/ rounded corners(!)
[15:23] <eroomde> cool
[15:23] <eroomde> roll on grib cron :)
[15:24] <DanielRichman> OK I reckon tying the calculator and the predictor together would be super easy
[15:24] <jonsowman> eroomde: grib cron?
[15:24] <eroomde> cron to gran gribs
[15:24] <eroomde> so you don't have to wait each time
[15:24] <eroomde> grab*
[15:24] <jonsowman> it caches now
[15:25] <jonsowman> eg. run the same prediction twice
[15:25] <eroomde> not working for me
[15:25] <eroomde> stuck on 0% download
[15:25] <jonsowman> oh yea, NOAA server dead
[15:25] <jonsowman> it was this morning
[15:25] <jonsowman> been crap recently
[15:25] <jonsowman> the cusf hourly on srcf is also not getting data
[15:25] <eroomde> fair enough
[15:26] <jonsowman> need to get mine to write proper logs actually
[15:26] <DanielRichman> so what's the next step?
[15:27] <jonsowman> predictor and calc integration is, as you say, easy enough
[15:28] <jonsowman> Randomskk and I can sort that
[15:29] <eroomde> the big boys (for me) are the dl bit
[15:30] <eroomde> i'll carry on the the couch majigga
[15:30] <DanielRichman> so you want to get the tracker open sourced and begin hacking/rewriting it?
[15:30] <jonsowman> i need to have a play with couchdb
[15:31] <jonsowman> was reading the docs for it yesterday
[15:31] <jonsowman> looks very cool
[15:31] <eroomde> DanielRichman: yes
[15:31] <eroomde> jonsowman: yes, cute isn't it
[15:31] <eroomde> the google tech talk on it is nice too
[15:34] <DanielRichman> does couch have security/access control?
[15:34] <eroomde> yup
[15:35] <DanielRichman> oh and one thing we might want to look at is making the tools work on both OSM aswell as gmaps
[15:35] <DanielRichman> so the chasers can have a copy of the OSM tiles for the area on their HDD
[15:35] <eroomde> or OS
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> Openlayers can work well for this
[15:36] <eroomde> OS would be the best option
[15:36] <DanielRichman> hmm?
[15:36] <eroomde> ordinance survey
[15:36] <eroomde> you know, those maps which are considerably better than all the other maps, by quite a margin
[15:36] <DanielRichman> :P
[15:37] <eroomde> especially at the field level
[15:37] <eroomde> and these things land in fields
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> http://os.openstreetmap.org/
[15:37] <DanielRichman> indeed they do
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> tile service for the ordnance survey tiles of StreetView
[15:37] <eroomde> you can dl the entire os landranger too I think
[15:37] <DanielRichman> arn't you meant to pay for OS data?
[15:38] <eroomde> it's free for non commercial
[15:38] <DanielRichman> oh awesome
[15:38] <DanielRichman> eroomde: you were mentioning VMs earlier; it might be easier if we just release a HAB livecd
[15:38] <SpeedEvil> It's not free for non-commercial
[15:38] <DanielRichman> or liveusb for you triple Es
[15:38] <eroomde> DanielRichman: yep indeed. anything that is just self contained and works
[15:39] <SpeedEvil> it's free for many uses, some of them commercial.
[15:39] <DanielRichman> yeah you don't need much in a chasecar so the live system would need the tracking and predicting software, fldigi (or better), and the rest of the free space can be used for map tiles
[15:39] <DanielRichman> i see
[15:40] <eroomde> knowing where footpaths and bridleways are is really very useful
[15:43] <eroomde> bbiab
[15:44] <DanielRichman> all right. So you want to put messing around with ukhas.org.uk on hold until we've done some more work on the individual tools?
[15:48] <Dently> great job N9XTN ! http://aprs.fi/?call=N9XTN-11,KD4STH-8, almost 90k ft.
[15:52] <juxta> those OS maps look really good
[15:56] <m1x10> juxta I just wrote the code to read temp from DS18B20
[15:56] <juxta> oh great
[15:56] <juxta> working ok?
[15:56] <m1x10> I see somewhere that you can configure the sensor to get 9 to 12 precision bits
[15:56] <m1x10> do u have this code?
[15:58] <juxta> m1x10, no - I use a library to access the sensors: http://milesburton.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dallas_Temperature_Control_Library
[15:59] <m1x10> juxta this lib sits on top of OneWire lib
[15:59] <m1x10> too much libraries dont y think so?
[15:59] <juxta> yes
[16:00] <m1x10> i just use onewire and get my temp
[16:00] <juxta> you can do it that way, sure - I just used the other library as it's easier
[16:00] <m1x10> i just want to set the presicion cause arduino pins have 10bit
[16:01] <m1x10> but anyway
[16:01] <m1x10> it works
[16:01] <m1x10> i used three resistors in paraller to get 4.8kohms :)
[16:02] <juxta> oh for the pulll up?
[16:02] <m1x10> y
[16:02] <juxta> I suspect it would work lower/higher
[16:03] <m1x10> i now read that atmega328/168 wants less resistance
[16:03] <m1x10> hehe
[16:03] <m1x10> now i will start removing them one by onr
[16:03] <m1x10> to see where it will die :)
[16:03] <juxta> re the precision - that doesnt have anything to do with the precision of the ADC on the AVR
[16:04] <m1x10> !
[16:04] <m1x10> ok
[16:09] <m1x10> heh
[16:09] <m1x10> works with just 2k
[16:12] <griffonbot> @N9XTN: NSTAR 10B max alt approx 90,100 all payloads intact teachers saw final descent into bean field #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/N9XTN/status/19997850811]
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[16:15] <m1x10> heh
[16:15] <DanielRichman> I would have thought that you want to increase the resistance as far as you can with it still working
[16:15] <DanielRichman> to reduce power consumption
[16:16] <m1x10> talking to me ?
[16:16] <DanielRichman> besides what's wrong with the standard 4K7
[16:16] <DanielRichman> yes
[16:16] <juxta> it'd be a pretty small amount
[16:16] <m1x10> DanielRichman i dont have a 4K7 right onw
[16:16] <DanielRichman> you should probably just use 4.7K, that is what the datasheet says?
[16:16] <juxta> it just charges a cap inside the sensor
[16:16] <DanielRichman> hmmm
[16:16] <m1x10> so i will stick with a 2k
[16:17] <DanielRichman> >.< ok
[16:17] <juxta> and if resistance is too high, the cap takes a long time charge
[16:17] <m1x10> ill go buy one at 4.7k
[16:17] <m1x10> but here: http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Learning/OneWire says
[16:17] <m1x10> Note on resistors: For larger networks, try something smaller. The ATmega328/168 datasheet indicates starting at 1k6 and a number of users have found smaller to work better on larger networks.
[16:18] <DanielRichman> you don't have a larger network
[16:19] <DanielRichman> all you're using is 2 sensors?
[16:19] <m1x10> 1
[16:19] <m1x10> :Pp
[16:19] <m1x10> ok i go buy one at 4.7
[16:19] <m1x10> from monday
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[16:37] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: I will get the calc integrated into the predictor
[16:37] <DanielRichman> :o cool
[16:37] <DanielRichman> perhaps a manual & auto toggle
[16:37] <jonsowman> won't take me long but I can't do it until tuesday
[16:37] <juxta> burst alt calc?
[16:38] <jonsowman> yep I have an idea of how I'm going to do it
[16:38] <jonsowman> then I'll show everyone and modify it based on feedback
[16:38] <juxta> nice!
[16:38] <jonsowman> as I did with the predictor
[16:38] <DanielRichman> :)
[16:38] <jonsowman> is my repo now "upstream" of the ukhas one?
[16:38] <DanielRichman> yes I did consider that
[16:38] <juxta> I wonder how these chinese balloons will go compared to the totex/kaymont burst alts
[16:38] <DanielRichman> github seems to have a concept of who forked who
[16:38] <jonsowman> I'm not familiar with how git works pushing/pulling from multiple users
[16:38] <DanielRichman> which is a bit of ap ain
[16:39] <DanielRichman> as far as github seems to be concerned, ukhas "forked" your repo
[16:39] <jonsowman> right
[16:39] <DanielRichman> however tbh that's irrelevant
[16:39] <DanielRichman> if you want you can push to the ukhas one
[16:39] <jonsowman> so is pulling changes from mine to ukhas straightforward?
[16:39] <jonsowman> i've got everything set up to push to mine at the mo
[16:39] <DanielRichman> ed was going to rent himself out as a documentation "nazi/bitch" but until he specifies what we should be doing, go crazy
[16:39] <DanielRichman> yeah we can pull from yours into ukhas easy I think
[16:40] <jonsowman> ok
[16:40] <jonsowman> well I will do that until I'm told otherwise
[16:40] <jonsowman> :)
[16:40] <DanielRichman> you can either do it in the web interface or I'll just check out a copy, pull then push
[16:41] <jonsowman> right
[16:41] <jonsowman> i'm still learning git :)_
[16:42] <jonsowman> urgh why can't OS X have a 256 colour terminal
[16:43] <jonsowman> i love this OS, but seriously
[16:43] <DanielRichman> er
[16:43] <jonsowman> not that much to ask is it :P
[16:43] <DanielRichman> why do you need a 256 colour terminal?
[16:43] <jonsowman> vim
[16:44] <DanielRichman> vim uses that many colours?
[16:44] <jonsowman> it does with my zenburn theme
[16:44] <DanielRichman> heh
[16:44] <jonsowman> http://slinky.imukuppi.org/zenburn/zenburn.png
[16:45] <griffonbot> @N9XTN: Got video of landing showing chase vehicles approaching landing site. #arhab [http://twitter.com/N9XTN/status/20000063890]
[16:45] <DanielRichman> eww
[16:45] <jonsowman> i like it :)
[16:45] <juxta> I dont mind it
[16:46] <juxta> but it strikes me that that's bordering on an editor with a gui ;p
[16:46] <jonsowman> a little
[16:46] <jonsowman> but in a useful way
[16:46] <jonsowman> mouse control is helpful
[16:46] <jonsowman> and splitscreen
[16:47] <jonsowman> anyway bbiab
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[17:20] <m1x10> cool, finished APRS including sensor package
[17:20] <m1x10> humidity and temperature
[17:20] <m1x10> thats enough for me for a start
[17:21] <m1x10> 192042h4038.88N/02256.66EO000/000/A=000136/T=30/RH=35________ALFA_IKAROS
[17:21] <m1x10> 192115h4038.88N/02256.66EO000/000/A=000134/T=30/RH=34________ALFA_IKAROS
[17:21] <m1x10> aprs comment field is really useful
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[17:52] <fsphil|t60> just reading through the archivfe
[17:52] <fsphil|t60> archive
[17:52] <fsphil|t60> selfish point: online landranger doesn't cover NI :(
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[17:54] <timbobel> jonsowman?
[17:54] <timbobel> did you receive my msg yesterday?
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[17:56] <timbobel> jonsowman?
[17:56] <timbobel> did you receive my msg yesterday?
[17:56] <timbobel> flight predictor not working(????????? emergencyyyy)
[17:57] Nick change: RocketBoy -> G8KHW
[17:58] Nick change: G8KHW -> AJ4XE
[17:58] <timbobel> aaaaah predictor not worknng
[18:00] <DanielRichman> 14:25 < jonsowman> oh yea, NOAA server dead
[18:00] <DanielRichman> 14:25 < jonsowman> it was this morning
[18:00] <DanielRichman> 14:25 < jonsowman> the cusf hourly on srcf is also not getting data
[18:00] <DanielRichman> timbobel: ^^
[18:01] <AJ4XE> you could try the wyoming one
[18:01] <timbobel> i am
[18:02] <timbobel> but i like the look and feel of jonsowman's. it totally sucks since i am launching in 15hrs
[18:03] <AJ4XE> yeah - its nowhere near as easy to drive
[18:03] <timbobel> anyone know if jonsowman changed my telemetry?
[18:03] <timbobel> its
[18:04] <timbobel> no sensors, just the time, position, and then either an F or a T
[18:04] <timbobel> $$TBL,22,18:46:23,52.6052,4.7001,-3,F*3C
[18:04] <timbobel> $$TBB,22,18:46:31,52.6052,4.7001,10,T*3C
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[19:08] <jonsowman> sorry, if timbobel returns, i did change his telem xml
[19:08] <jonsowman> also sorry about predictor deadness
[19:09] <jonsowman> its the NOAA end, not mine
[19:09] <jonsowman> hopefully will be ok again soon
[19:10] <fsphil> unfortunate timing for him :/
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[19:20] <m1x10> yeah
[19:20] <m1x10> once the gps now predictor
[19:21] <fsphil> how's your fsa03 now m1x10?
[19:21] <m1x10> everything solid
[19:22] <fsphil> good good - i've had this one on for two days now and it's still going
[19:22] <m1x10> my telemetry string looks like this: 192042h4038.88N/02256.66EO000/000/A=000136/V=4.6/T=31/H=45/D=19________ALFA_IKAROS
[19:22] <fsphil> is that the aprs format?
[19:23] <m1x10> y
[19:23] <fsphil> aah I've never seen it before
[19:23] <m1x10> after A its mine
[19:23] <m1x10> voltage temp humid dewpoint
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[19:36] <timbobel> when will pred be up?
[19:36] <timbobel> telemetry is working
[19:36] <timbobel> building the antenna now :P
[19:36] <jonsowman> hi timbobel
[19:36] <timbobel> hi man
[19:36] <jonsowman> have changed your telemetry xml
[19:36] <timbobel> could you check it
[19:36] <timbobel> its uploading now
[19:36] <jonsowman> sorry the predictor issue is a problem at the NOAA end
[19:36] <timbobel> and they BOTH have lock =D
[19:36] <jonsowman> i can't do anything about it
[19:36] <timbobel> when u think
[19:36] <jonsowman> i really don't know
[19:37] <jonsowman> for the moment, try the CUSF old preditor
[19:37] <jonsowman> www.cuspaceflight.co.uk/predict
[19:37] <timbobel> not working
[19:37] <m1x10> timbobel, you have lock ?
[19:37] <timbobel> not wkring
[19:37] <timbobel> yes!
[19:37] <timbobel> it has been on for 1.5 hours though
[19:37] <jonsowman> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[19:37] <timbobel> should be noted
[19:37] <jonsowman> looks like it's working through
[19:38] <timbobel> what do you mean?
[19:38] <jonsowman> * though
[19:38] <timbobel> yes it is! very happy about it
[19:38] <timbobel> it just now worked
[19:38] <jonsowman> :)
[19:38] <timbobel> my code is great too
[19:38] <jonsowman> the XML is fine
[19:39] <timbobel> just need some final adjustments
[19:39] <timbobel> no problems anymore whatsoever
[19:39] <jonsowman> good :)
[19:39] <jonsowman> i'm around occasionally tonight, give me a shout if you have problems
[19:40] <m1x10> timbobel, now at my local hour (21:00) I hardly get a lock. I have to wait some 15minutes or more.
[19:40] <m1x10> happens always
[19:41] <timbobel> jonsowman okay
[19:41] <timbobel> m1x10.. okay its a shitty moduyle
[19:41] <m1x10> heh
[19:41] <timbobel> omg
[19:41] <timbobel> my glue gun says
[19:41] <m1x10> im sure on the air you wont have any problem
[19:41] <timbobel> dont use for styrofoam
[19:41] <timbobel> i just tested
[19:42] <timbobel> its friggin great for styrofoam
[19:45] <m1x10> any technical advice of how to solder/connect/stack my metal antenna connector on my aprs body ? That's it: http://imagebin.org/107559
[19:48] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54884326.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:49] <m1x10> hi Lunar_Lander
[19:49] <m1x10> hows going?
[19:49] RocketBoy (~andy@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> I'm fine and you?
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> Hi RocketBoy
[19:49] <m1x10> pretty cool
[19:49] <m1x10> They found a potential-for-life place in Mars !
[19:50] <m1x10> propably they will send the next rover on that place
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> where is it?
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> source?
[19:50] <fsphil> lets hope they don't run over it
[19:50] <m1x10> wait
[19:52] <m1x10> search "Nili Fossae"
[19:53] <m1x10> thats how they call that place
[19:53] <m1x10> also available at google earth
[19:53] <fsphil> someone posted a picture to the new rover here, it's *huge*
[19:53] <m1x10> yeah loled
[19:53] <m1x10> i would like to drive it:)
[19:55] <m1x10> http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008927_2010
[19:57] <m1x10> Lunar_Lander
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> I can kinda understand the peeps
[19:57] <m1x10> any technical advice of how to solder/connect/stack my metal antenna connector on my aprs body ? That's it: http://imagebin.org/107559
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> the site is rocky
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> and the landing system has not been used up to now
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> unfortunately my electronics experience at the moment is close to 0 :(
[19:58] <m1x10> its more technical than electronic situation
[19:59] <DanielRichman> you want to solder the connector directly to the ntx2 pins
[19:59] <DanielRichman> however you want to be also sure that the pins won't short out
[20:00] <m1x10> DanielRichman, If I solder the connector directly to hx1 would it be possible to de-solder ?
[20:00] <m1x10> eg afte landing
[20:00] <m1x10> i want to change something
[20:01] <DanielRichman> hmm I guess it would, depends on how far up the pin you solder it
[20:01] <m1x10> i just dont want to destroy the radiometrix module if i do something wrong
[20:02] <m1x10> that why i prefer not to solder directly
[20:02] <DanielRichman> that's a fair point
[20:03] <m1x10> if i place a wire between them?
[20:03] <m1x10> small wire
[20:03] <m1x10> one side soldered to hx1. other side to connector
[20:05] <m1x10> now i have the RF out pin on the breadboard. then from a wire it goes inside the connector. nothing is soldered. that way i trasmit very far. about 80km someone's aprs receiver get my signal and send it to http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=SW2HYX-11
[20:06] <DanielRichman> hmm. I don't know how good it is to have the RF in the breadboard
[20:06] <DanielRichman> but I guess that method has its advantages
[20:06] <DanielRichman> I'm not 100% sure. If you're confidant it works, then I guess it works
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> I got a APRS question
[20:06] <DanielRichman> personally I'd suggest direct soldering but clearly you don't want to do that
[20:06] <m1x10> or i can put the wire in the same pin RF out is
[20:06] <RocketBoy> its not good to have RF in breadboards at all
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> does APRS randomly select a ground station?
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> like the "best" or the "nearest"?
[20:07] <RocketBoy> the extra capacitance and lossy materials are bad for Rf
[20:07] <m1x10> Lunar_Lander your aprs signal travels everywhere. if i have an receiver i get it. no stations.
[20:07] <m1x10> also there are repeaters
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> I mean on the website
[20:08] <m1x10> aa
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> when I look at the Friedrichshafen ascent, I can see many spots on the track
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> and they all are "connected" to various ground stations
[20:08] <m1x10> that;s his trace maybe
[20:08] <m1x10> dunno
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> *shrugs*
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:09] <m1x10> DanielRichman, if i put the wire in the same pinhole on breadboard where RF out is
[20:09] <m1x10> then i get no loss i think
[20:10] <m1x10> but thats a bit risky cause it could get away
[20:12] <fsphil> love the rounded corners jonsowman
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> for the comic relief
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> do you know this man: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rPgLc9QlYg
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[20:15] <fsphil> not me
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwELovShqqs
[20:19] <fsphil> lovely
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[20:22] <jonsowman> fsphil: thank you
[20:22] <jonsowman> :)
[20:23] <fsphil> haha, Lunar_Lander. what youtube considers a related video to your first one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mNCnEuf6cM
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au3RziM9AfU
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> you've to love MST3K when you like science and tech xD
[20:38] <fsphil> I don't think it was ever on here, at least I never saw it
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah it was only on Comedy Central
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> and Sci-Fi USA
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> only the final season was partially on Sci-Fi UK
[20:40] <fsphil> ah we didn't have satellite back then
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> fortunately we got Youtube today ;)
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[21:13] <timbobel> can fldigi pass on my sound?
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[21:21] <m1x10> gnite ppl
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> good night m1x10
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[21:39] <timbobel> check my testroute
[21:41] <eroomde> ?
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[21:45] <jonsowman> good email eg
[21:45] <jonsowman> *ed
[21:46] <jonsowman> going to be a fun thing to get up and running
[21:46] <eroomde> I'm quite excited about this, as measured by the number of semi-plausible daydreams of possible cool things to do
[21:47] <jonsowman> yep
[21:47] <jonsowman> gives a huge scope for doing cool things
[21:47] <eroomde> for-ex a much better ballistic-coefficient calculator (for real-time landing pred)
[21:48] <jonsowman> that'd be excellent
[21:48] <jonsowman> just fyi i'm planning to integrate the predictor and burst calulator during the week
[21:48] <eroomde> cool. what are you thinking about the interface - tabs?
[21:49] <jonsowman> probably have a auto/manual toggle
[21:49] <eroomde> cool
[21:49] <jonsowman> auto being you supply certain parameters and the ones required for the predictor are calculated
[21:50] <eroomde> maybe a tool to calculate descent rate from parachute would be cool too
[21:50] <jonsowman> manual being you click to bring up the calc interface in a small window, much around with params, and hit OK to dump them into the predictor form
[21:50] <jonsowman> s/much/muck/
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> ballistic coefficient for the payload braking effect?
[21:50] <eroomde> that's more of a project, certainly. just thinking longer-term. a sort of graphical payload train constructor a la rock-sim (used to calc rocket flight profiles)
[21:51] <DanielRichman> cool jonsowman
[21:51] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: well, of the system
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:51] <eroomde> most of the guesses are inaccurate, you really want it to be calculated from the incming data
[21:51] <jonsowman> if someone feels like writing a descent rate calculator, i'll integrate it
[21:51] <eroomde> and as soon as possible too
[21:51] <eroomde> bayesian regression would be the way to do it I think
[21:51] <jonsowman> i've got a lot to do at the moment and haven't really got time to write the thing too
[21:51] <DanielRichman> so eroomde short term goals are: tidying up current code; consolidating tracker & predictor & calc code; adding flight data archive; hosting on ukhas.org.uk via vps accessible to many ukhas members as per email
[21:51] <eroomde> although the atmospheric model is quite non-linear. but still, do-able
[21:51] <jonsowman> planning on starting work on this dl-fldigi XMLRPC interface this week
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:52] <eroomde> XMLRPC?
[21:52] <DanielRichman> remote control of dl-fldigi via browser
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> I only found so far that descent velocity decreases kinda exponentially with density of the atmosphere
[21:52] <eroomde> i c
[21:52] <jonsowman> http://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi-XMLRPC
[21:52] <DanielRichman> you can access most of its features via xmlrpc
[21:52] <DanielRichman> jonsowman was going to work his ajaxy magic
[21:52] <jonsowman> basically going to put together a reasonable ajax interface and "replicate" dl-fldigi's GUI in a browser
[21:53] <eroomde> DanielRichman: basically in that order yes
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> can we use that jonsowman ?
[21:53] <jonsowman> DanielRichman that sounds like a good set of goals :)
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> the finding with the exponential decrease
[21:53] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: of course, will be entirely open source
[21:53] <eroomde> but consolidate being quite a weighty word (in terms to a bit of refactoring, documenting etc)
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:53] <DanielRichman> well that's what I was going to ask eroomde; you think that is the best order to attempt it in?
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> the thing is only that it is density
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> not altitude
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> so we'd need to convert that
[21:54] <DanielRichman> gluing the tracker & new predictor in a nicer, refactored way might take a bit of time
[21:54] <DanielRichman> the tracker, to an extent, has predictor integration already but I think the code might need a bit of tidying
[21:54] <DanielRichman> I haven't seen it myself
[21:55] <eroomde> DanielRichman: probably yes - i think the order more or less defines itself. It's the software equivalent of up-ended a big box of stuff onto the kitchen table and then starting to go about arranging it all and tidying bits of making it all fit together nicely into a new box
[21:55] <eroomde> DanielRichman: sure, but worth it
[21:56] <DanielRichman> oh definitely
[21:56] <eroomde> i think the code all comes from the rjw fork
[21:56] Action: timbobel wants to know where to get decent info since the predictor is down
[21:56] <DanielRichman> fork makes it sound organised >.>
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[21:56] <DanielRichman> I think the tracker is a bit of a version-control-with-tarballz job
[21:57] <eroomde> well, the core of the predicting (grab a grib, run a sim, get a csv file) is all pretty stable and comes from rjw. the rest is mainly wrapper
[21:57] <DanielRichman> yep
[21:57] <eroomde> they're quite well separated
[21:57] <DanielRichman> how nice is the actual predictor code in C?
[21:57] <DanielRichman> there were some rumours of rewriting that too, I don't know if it is necessary
[21:57] <eroomde> quite nice - don't think it really needs to be touched
[21:57] <DanielRichman> ok that's good then
[21:58] <eroomde> except I think the dynamics model had a slightly flakey assumption about being in equilibrium directly after burst
[21:58] <eroomde> but that will make hardly any difference to the results
[21:59] <DanielRichman> OK. What about development? C is fine, but with PHP, shall we continue to work on our own machines?
[21:59] <jonsowman> Randomskk mentioned re-writing the predictor in python, but I'm not sure if that was an actual plan to do something or more of a thought
[21:59] <DanielRichman> I don't know how many people bother having a local LAMP stack
[22:00] <jonsowman> DanielRichman for web based dev, can we have the VPS serve local user account web spaces
[22:00] <DanielRichman> the "UKHAS VPS"?
[22:00] <eroomde> it's one fewer thing to compile, but it would slow the predictor down a lot. no big deal for the web site but useless if you want to do monte-carlo or anything
[22:00] Action: Lunar_Lander 's head rotates
[22:00] <jonsowman> so the webserver serves ~/public_html as http://ukhas.org.uk/~user
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> how can you talk about programming so fast?
[22:00] <DanielRichman> yes we could do that, if the plan is to set that up now rather than wait until the project is completed
[22:00] <jonsowman> ah I see what you mean
[22:00] <DanielRichman> I think that it might be a good idea/easier to go with user spaces
[22:00] <eroomde> DanielRichman: you are right about the local lamp stack, that's why I was thinking about developing on a vm
[22:01] <eroomde> so basically we'd be making habhub :)
[22:01] <DanielRichman> so we have a choice; leave people to develop locally (or more likely, they'll end up developing on hexoc spacenear and rjh's server respectivly) or we start a VPS with user spaces
[22:01] <jonsowman> eroomde: well said
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> how can you talk about programming so fast?
[22:01] <DanielRichman> touch typing
[22:02] <eroomde> vps with user space suits me I guess
[22:02] <eroomde> but equally i probably wouldn't use it straight away, until a basic tarball of workingness was available
[22:03] <DanielRichman> all right. I suggest we wait until rob gets back, and if he agrees we'll try and get the latest tracker code in github, then set up a VPS?
[22:04] <eroomde> i think it's natrium's tracker code that's the crucial bit
[22:04] <jonsowman> yes I think so tooo
[22:04] <eroomde> the other stuff is just a db - we could knock that together much faster than re-doing the mapping stuff i think
[22:04] <eroomde> we have defined api's into and out of the db afterall
[22:04] <jonsowman> the system on rjh's server isn't a db
[22:04] <jonsowman> it writes to a text file
[22:04] <DanielRichman> I think rjh focuses on collecting all the strings but natrium focuses on a database with locations to plot?
[22:05] <eroomde> oh i thought it was sequel on rjh's - hence the horrible RDBMS hack for extra fields
[22:05] <jonsowman> nope
[22:05] <DanielRichman> ok well natrium is around, if nocturnal, so we can talk to him if you fancy staying up
[22:05] <jonsowman> data.txt
[22:05] <eroomde> aaaargh
[22:05] <jonsowman> i know
[22:05] <DanielRichman> :D
[22:05] <eroomde> ok
[22:05] <jonsowman> awful isn't it
[22:05] <eroomde> so we really do need to do some work on this system then :)
[22:05] <jonsowman> and hence data.old.txt data.16-07-10.txt, etc etc
[22:06] <DanielRichman> well what is there to a tracker?
[22:06] <eroomde> couch is so much the nicer way of doing this
[22:06] <DanielRichman> it's javascript that fetches locations and plots them on the map
[22:06] <jonsowman> even SQL would be better
[22:06] <jonsowman> but I agree with couch
[22:06] <DanielRichman> the javascript works so we just need to attach couch to it?
[22:06] <LA3QMA> any balloons tomorrow ??
[22:06] <eroomde> yep, js and couch are made for each other
[22:06] <eroomde> LA3QMA: not from the UK
[22:06] <jonsowman> couch keeps everything in json right?
[22:06] <LA3QMA> eroomde: ok :o(
[22:07] <eroomde> and because couch is schemaless, you can do whatever you want with strings
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> oh hi to Norway LA3QMA
[22:07] <eroomde> as long as there's a 'lat' and 'lon' and 'alt' key in the json somewhere, its' fine
[22:07] <DanielRichman> cool so we want to separate the tracker code from php mysql and flat file and pair it up with couch
[22:07] <LA3QMA> Lunar_Lander: :o)
[22:07] <jonsowman> yes
[22:07] <eroomde> we could loose msql altogether
[22:07] <jonsowman> is natrium's code sql as it stands?
[22:08] <jonsowman> i dont have access to the spacenear.us server
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> how is it going on in the North :)?
[22:08] <eroomde> although I don't want to be religious - it may be that mysql is the better way of managing users or sessions
[22:08] <DanielRichman> well until we have a need of it, there's no need to install it
[22:08] <eroomde> but i don't really beleive that it'd be any easier than using couch
[22:09] <DanielRichman> I can't imagine a use for any log on system other than ssh atm
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[22:09] <LA3QMA> probably going to the same qth i first tried to receive the balloon to see if what i heard was local noise or a weak signal
[22:09] <m0tek> test
[22:09] <m0tek> cool this is eroomde
[22:09] <DanielRichman> shell account on srcf box?
[22:09] <m0tek> oh bum i didn't load screen. this was the only reason i came in through irssi
[22:09] <DanielRichman> irssi or bnc
[22:09] <DanielRichman> oh cool irssi <3 :)
[22:10] <m0tek> yes - i wanted a better interface than webchat.irc.net but can't actually use irc over this wifi as the port is blocked
[22:10] <m0tek> to ssh into pip
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[22:10] <DanielRichman> freenode has ports open on 8001
[22:10] <DanielRichman> and 7000 and 7070
[22:10] <m0tek> it's a whitelist on this wifi
[22:10] <DanielRichman> though the 7K ones are SSL
[22:10] <DanielRichman> eww.
[22:10] <m0tek> basicall 22 and 8080 and not much else
[22:11] <DanielRichman> harsh
[22:11] Nick change: m0tek -> eroomde
[22:11] <eroomde> hey I'm on xp atm - I don't want to be too exposed
[22:12] <DanielRichman> :P
[22:16] <LA3QMA> what was the freq for icarus again?
[22:17] <eroomde> I do quite like the idea of tools producing text based files - so forex: instead of having a monolithic python backend that passes the flight path around as a list of 3-tuples, have a csv file that one process writes to and another separate one reads from. why? well we'll be writing useful tools and libraries in and of their own right, and it'd be useful to have this kind of thing for when you're playing offline. So I can just pass a fligh
[22:17] <eroomde> LA3QMA: 434.075
[22:18] <DanielRichman> well eroomde jonsowman; I am willing to start looking at turning the UKHAS vps into a reality, or do you think we should wait longer?
[22:18] <LA3QMA> eroomde: tnx
[22:19] <eroomde> maybe just wait to hear from alexei and rob before money starts changing hands
[22:19] <jonsowman> agreed
[22:19] <DanielRichman> yeah definitely
[22:19] <jonsowman> am happy to help will admin/setup etc too
[22:19] <eroomde> likewise, if i can be useful
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[22:19] <jonsowman> brb dinner before the girlfriend kills me
[22:19] <DanielRichman> there's going to be a lot to this; forex. we haven't even started the "which httpd" flamewar
[22:19] <eroomde> we could do with a secure place to put admin details aswel. should someone be hit by a train
[22:20] <eroomde> DanielRichman: cherrypy!
[22:20] <DanielRichman> oh what have I done >.<
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> what's py? :D
[22:20] <eroomde> python
[22:21] <eroomde> cherrypy is a very lightweight web framework for the python language
[22:21] <jonsowman> eroomde: linode lets you have lots of user accounts for the same linode account
[22:21] <eroomde> it's neat and quite cute. it'd easily cope with this
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> but cherrypie is also great :D
[22:21] <DanielRichman> well eroomde one possibility is picking a very light webserver with a proxy module to sit on the front and then just proxy it out as we devlep so people can run their preferred httpd under their own UID
[22:21] <eroomde> it has a built in httpd. but it's not nearly as big or established as apache or others
[22:21] <DanielRichman> since it's all interpreted languages we're not exactly going to get lightning fast speeds
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman I got a great piece of music for your and your girlfriend when you return ;)
[22:22] <eroomde> DanielRichman: yeah indeed. Cherry is nice to develop with, and if you want to make it production code it has mod-apache stuff
[22:23] <eroomde> but still, interpreted languages will be plenty fast enough for this - i mean really we're only going to be serving <500 people at any one time, and only doing anything every 10s
[22:23] <DanielRichman> I know that setting apache up to forward proxy requests is quite easy, but apache can be a bit clunky
[22:23] <eroomde> and google does most of the heavy listing (maps, graphs etc)
[22:23] <DanielRichman> hah yeah and we're never going to make it /. proof
[22:23] <eroomde> i don't have really any apache experience beyond the very basics so I shall bow out of this debate for the most part
[22:24] <DanielRichman> rjh's dedicated box melted when he hit the frontpage
[22:24] <eroomde> but cherry is great to hack with, I must say
[22:24] <eroomde> DanielRichman: i don't think he had caching. we will surely have caching :)
[22:24] <DanielRichman> :)
[22:24] <eroomde> otherwise it's just a pile of poo poo
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> but eroomde
[22:25] <eroomde> all the backend really needs to do is generate some new static content every 10s, and it can be ajax'd out to clients
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> don't you like a nice piece of pie?
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:25] <DanielRichman> cron will be our web server
[22:25] <eroomde> lol
[22:25] Action: Lunar_Lander distributes some apple pie
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[22:26] <DanielRichman> :O
[22:26] <eroomde> it's ubuntu pie around here
[22:26] <DanielRichman> ubuntu pie? I knew there was ubuntu cola, but pie!?
[22:26] <eroomde> they were selling ubuntu cola in college briefly
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[22:30] Action: DanielRichman starts his VM to play with cherokee
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[22:33] <eroomde> DanielRichman: that looks cool too
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[22:33] <eroomde> couch has it's own webserver too infact
[22:33] <DanielRichman> well adam and jon are all over cherokee so I thought I may as well see what it's like :)
[22:34] <eroomde> we should not dismiss it straight away as it's pretty remarkable - you can build webapps with nothing other than chouch in a way that is very impressive
[22:35] <DanielRichman> aah ssh-copy-id <-- this is useful
[22:35] <DanielRichman> my CPU moans if I try to use the vt100 over VNC interface that libvirt gives me
[22:36] <eroomde> http://couchapp.org
[22:36] <eroomde> early days but promising
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[22:40] <DanielRichman> couch is very interesting. I like how you can create full webapps with just couch & client JS; no server side scripting
[22:41] <eroomde> yes exactly, it's quite compelling
[22:41] <eroomde> and the replication just makes you smile
[22:42] <DanielRichman> interesting. git-buildpackage
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[22:47] <DanielRichman> ugh don't you hate it when the man page is wrong
[22:50] <eroomde> for what?
[22:50] <DanielRichman> man cherokee-admin claimed th at I could cherokee-admin -a to listen on all interfaces
[22:50] <DanielRichman> no such option
[22:50] <DanielRichman> on the other hand, cherokee-admin is nice
[22:51] <DanielRichman> I do like this web server
[22:52] <DanielRichman> actually I think this is what you get for running debian stable inside a VM
[22:52] <DanielRichman> this cherokee is from 08
[22:52] <eroomde> does it come with deb stab?
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> version skew is common
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> are you sure they are the same version?
[22:53] <DanielRichman> yes cherooke is in debian lenny (stable)
[22:53] <DanielRichman> I believe a newer one is in deb testing. There's a Ubuntu ppa. I don't know if it's in lucid; I *still* haven't installed it
[22:55] <DanielRichman> cherokee is cool. I can see why you like it
[22:55] <DanielRichman> I also really like (though it's not actually that much of a feature) that it comes with a "default" virtualhost rather than the strange way Apache handles virtual hosting
[22:55] <DanielRichman> ie. everything is a virtual host rather than virtualhosting is optional
[22:56] <jonsowman> yup
[22:56] <eroomde> DanielRichman: it doesn't come with lucid (just checked)
[22:56] <DanielRichman> OK
[22:59] <eroomde> ouch
[23:00] <DanielRichman> wonder why it hasn't yet been synced in from debian -> ubuntu
[23:00] <eroomde> I found a really nice complete analogue front end and 24-bit adc chip for the pcb I'm making to send the rocket test stand data over ethernet
[23:00] <eroomde> i need 5 of these chips
[23:00] <eroomde> they're £42 ea
[23:00] <DanielRichman> phone them up
[23:01] <DanielRichman> and ask for freebiez
[23:01] <eroomde> i think I will!
[23:01] <DanielRichman> :P
[23:01] <eroomde> equally it may be easier just to design a complete front end
[23:01] <DanielRichman> why does cherokee depend on mysql
[23:01] <eroomde> sux
[23:01] <DanielRichman> (well, only the client libs)
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> hey jonsowman is back
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> I got something for you
[23:03] <DanielRichman> libcherokee-base0 libcherokee-client0 libcherokee-config0 libcherokee-server0 libmysqlclient15off mysql-common
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwELovShqqs
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[23:07] <DanielRichman> OK I know how to use cherokee now. That was easy :)
[23:08] <jonsowman> cherokee = win
[23:08] <jonsowman> such a neat webserver, it's excellent
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> are you trying to get a website up?
[23:08] <DanielRichman> just whispers and rumours
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:08] <DanielRichman> I tried cherokee out of curiosity though
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman did you watch it?
[23:09] <eroomde> right I am going to bust a groove. have a productive evening all
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> good night eroomde
[23:10] <DanielRichman> night
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[23:11] <DanielRichman> checking whether the C compiler works... no
[23:11] <DanielRichman> great.
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> crap
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[23:11] <DanielRichman> autotools, atleast, is nice and down-to-earth
[23:11] <DanielRichman> no messing about
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> did you try to restart the compiler?
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> just a suggestion
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> as I once had a LaTeX file that didn't compile
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> restarting the editor was the thing that fixed it
[23:13] <DanielRichman> oh it was my fault.
[23:13] <DanielRichman> cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-march"
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[23:13] <DanielRichman> should have been -march=native
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> try it :D
[23:13] <DanielRichman> checking whether the C compiler works... yes
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> man programming is so tensioning
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> YAY!
[23:14] <DanielRichman> >.>
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> DanielRichman wanna have some tortilla crisps too?
[23:14] <DanielRichman> :O
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> are the salted ones
[23:14] <DanielRichman> :OO
[23:14] <fsphil> haha
[23:15] <DanielRichman> "checking whether the C compiler works... no" is now my second fav. quote after the dovecot time-moved-backwards-suicide message
[23:15] <fsphil> ahh dovecot, I likes it
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:16] <DanielRichman> "dovecot: Time just moved backwards by 11 seconds. This might cause a lot of problems, so I'll just kill myself now."
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> lol!
[23:16] <DanielRichman> exactly :)
[23:16] <fsphil> I've yet to see that one, and the time on my vps is all over the place
[23:16] <DanielRichman> :{
[23:17] <DanielRichman> I think they made it handle it a bit more gracefully
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> antiparticles go back in time
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> or something like that
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:17] <DanielRichman> that happened once, the first time I ran ntpd
[23:17] <griffonbot> @N9XTN: Today's ground photos posted http://bit.ly/d4tMz3 #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/N9XTN/status/20021406997]
[23:17] <fsphil> I'll have to keep an eye out for that
[23:18] <fsphil> you'd think there would be more graceful ways to handle time updates
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[23:20] <fsphil> theoretical and off topic question: if there was a metal where electrons moved at say half the speed as normal, would an antenna made of it be half the size?
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> I'd say that the electrons swinging in the wire determine frequency
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> half the speed, lower frequency
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> I won't say that it allows for a shorter antenna
[23:22] <fsphil> yea, probably
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> The electron velocity in all wires is well under a milimeter a second.
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> true
[23:23] <fsphil> in antenna calculators, I've seen reference to the velocity factor
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> Propagation of current in wires is a wave phenomenon.
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> Consider ceramic antennas.
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> They do this.
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> They put the antenna in a dielectric with a comparatively high K.
[23:24] <DanielRichman> cherokee is linked against mysql so that it can provide a load balancing module. It does nothing for the http server
[23:24] <fsphil> ceramic antennas, some gps antennas use this yea?
[23:24] <DanielRichman> cool
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> yes
[23:24] <DanielRichman> and you can use it for authentication
[23:24] <DanielRichman> I don't think I will
[23:28] <fsphil> cherokee worth a play then? I might have a look at it next week
[23:30] <DanielRichman> hmm I don't know whether I can forward this cherokee port
[23:30] <DanielRichman> yeah you might want to have a play with it if you're into web hosting
[23:30] <DanielRichman> ugh some git servers are _so__slow_ compared to github
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[23:37] <jonsowman> fsphil: definitely :)
[23:37] <jonsowman> do you want a play with an admin interface?
[23:37] <fsphil> is there an example? I was just trying to get it up on one of my vps hosts
[23:39] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman ?
[23:39] <jonsowman> haha thanks Lunar_Lander :)
[23:40] <jonsowman> fsphil: see PM
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> I mean you talked about your girlfriend
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> and then
[23:40] <Randomskk> so it looks like I totally missed the conversation
[23:40] <Randomskk> but like
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> I knew that you are loving lovers who love
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:40] <Randomskk> can we not do php
[23:40] <fsphil> aww :)
[23:40] <DanielRichman> yeah you missed quite a bit Randomskk
[23:40] <Randomskk> sorry about that
[23:40] <fsphil> although I've been looking an excuse to learn python
[23:40] <DanielRichman> no we haven't even got to the language-of-choice war
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> does your gf like pie :D?
[23:40] <Randomskk> I will read the logs or something
[23:41] <Randomskk> I had to escort a french boy around london all day
[23:41] <Randomskk> I am totally shattered
[23:41] <DanielRichman> there are a few gems of substantial information in there
[23:41] <Randomskk> I even had to wake up early, on a saturday, after a whole week of working
[23:41] <DanielRichman> though there is a lot of banter and other menaingless noise
[23:41] <Randomskk> and then entertain him and another 14yo all evening
[23:41] <DanielRichman> :(
[23:41] <Randomskk> which involved waterfights and cooking and films and basically I am dead on my feet
[23:41] <fsphil> that's a brilliant admin interface!
[23:42] <Randomskk> what's an admin interface now?
[23:42] <DanielRichman> jonsowman just converted the pair of us to cherokee
[23:42] <Randomskk> cherokee++
[23:42] <Randomskk> it's running all my sites right now
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[23:42] <DanielRichman> :)
[23:42] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk I just posted a song for all the lovers :D
[23:42] <Randomskk> you did?
[23:42] <Lunar_Lander> I mean
[23:42] <Lunar_Lander> like a hour before :D
[23:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:42] <fsphil> I've installed it on my old ubuntu servers but I didn't seem to get cherokee-admin along with it
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwELovShqqs
[23:43] <Randomskk> fsphil: tbh install from source
[23:43] <Randomskk> it has very very few requirements
[23:43] <Randomskk> this is an excellent song
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[23:44] <Randomskk> for terrifying lovers
[23:44] <Randomskk> so what major things did I miss then?
[23:45] <DanielRichman> oo eer
[23:45] <fsphil> anyone know what time timbobel is launching tomorrow?
[23:45] <DanielRichman> trying to move the spam off the main list http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas-tools
[23:45] <DanielRichman> we were talking about plans of attack and couch
[23:46] <DanielRichman> jonsowman offered to start by integrating the burst calc & the new predictor which is easy enough
[23:46] <DanielRichman> we then started discussing what we wanted to do with the tracker
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> and we discussed a descent calculator
[23:46] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: have a look in the logs, 12 noon (UTC) onwards and 8pm (UTC) onwards
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> someone introduced ballistic coefficient as well
[23:47] <DanielRichman> basically teh times where ed is in the room
[23:47] <DanielRichman> then we thought that once we hear from alexei and rob we'd like to get underway with a UKHAS vps, some couch stuff, userdirs etc
[23:47] <Randomskk> happily, my server runs on utc
[23:48] <Randomskk> I am in ukhas tools now, too
[23:48] <Randomskk> I am very much in favour of testing
[23:49] <Randomskk> automated unit and integration tests are so good
[23:49] <Randomskk> you don't know what you're missing until you have them
[23:49] <Randomskk> api docs are okay, but I find myself more straying to the school of 'no surprises', i.e. code that does what you expect
[23:50] <DanielRichman> 13:37 < eroomde> i volunteer myself to be a docum,entation bitch/nazi (depending on your pov) for this thing
[23:50] <fsphil> ah, ~11:00 (GMT+1) on Sunday
[23:51] <DanielRichman> hmm interesting time in UTC too
[23:51] <DanielRichman> I think ed is a big fan of documentation; check the ukhas-tools archive
[23:51] <Randomskk> yes
[23:51] <Randomskk> I think I basically agree with ed
[23:53] <Randomskk> I am now all about agile, well documented, well tested, well written code that doesn't surprise anyone
[23:53] <Randomskk> awww nooo
[23:53] <Randomskk> reader is back to 1000+ unread
[23:54] <Randomskk> oh wait, no, it's not. phew.
[23:54] <LA3QMA> http://xkcd.com/695/ night c ya
[23:54] <DanielRichman> night
[23:55] <Randomskk> seeya
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6_BEgW28oU&feature=related
[23:55] <DanielRichman> you know stuff has gone wrong when aptitude asks you to Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> God natt! LA3QMA
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[23:56] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: hehe
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[23:57] <DanielRichman> actually it wasn't that bad; I was using /etc/apt/preferences to select debian testing for cherokee but keep everything else on stable
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[23:57] <DanielRichman> it just made a massive mess on my console and the first reaction ofc is !?!?
[23:57] <Randomskk> I'd still say cherokee from source
[23:58] <Randomskk> jonsowman has a script to do just that
[23:58] <Randomskk> http://github.com/jonsowman/upgrade-cherokee
[23:58] <DanielRichman> yeah I started by compiling from source
[23:58] <DanielRichman> wondered if the deb was any good
[23:58] <DanielRichman> [31/07/2010 23:57:39.084] (error) plugin_loader.c:362 - Could not open the 'server_info' module
[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> btw Randomskk someone said in the comments that he or she wishes this song to be played on his/her wedding
[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[00:00] --- Sun Aug 1 2010