highaltitude.log.20100729

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[00:37] <Wild-Wing> how are you doing fsphil
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[01:02] <Wild-Wing> juxta hi
[01:04] <juxta> morning Wild-Wing
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[01:16] <Wild-Wing> what kinda heating system do you guys use?
[02:23] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[03:29] <Wild-Wing> ummm what kinda heating system do you guys use?
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[03:32] <SpeedEvil> for?
[03:32] <Wild-Wing> a hab
[03:33] <SpeedEvil> There isn't typically any heating
[03:33] <SpeedEvil> An insulated box, with electronics inside
[03:33] <Wild-Wing> how do you keep it from freezing up the electronics
[03:33] <SpeedEvil> The insulated box
[03:34] <Wild-Wing> yea but how
[03:34] <SpeedEvil> temperatures inside are typically 0 to -20
[03:34] <SpeedEvil> the insulated box, with the power dissipated inside it by the electronics and camera.
[03:34] <Wild-Wing> what if you use low powered equiptment
[03:34] <SpeedEvil> then you have a bigger problem
[03:35] <Wild-Wing> lol thus me asking
[03:35] <SpeedEvil> are you meaning for long durations?
[03:36] <Wild-Wing> well i would like to know if its a bigg problem because the batteries i would like to use are not ment to go passed -20
[03:36] <SpeedEvil> How long durations?
[03:37] <SpeedEvil> the lithium primary 1.5V batteries have worked OK.
[03:38] <Wild-Wing> if it last more than 3 hours up there id be worried
[03:39] <SpeedEvil> what are you launching?
[03:39] <SpeedEvil> Cameras use quite a siubstantial amount of power, which tends to keep the rest warm
[03:40] <Wild-Wing> ummm id be programming it to turn on and start taking pictures around 10k feet i hope if not it be all low power even for the camera
[03:41] <SpeedEvil> probably sensible just to have it running all the time
[03:42] <SpeedEvil> there can be damp on the way up as it goes through clouds, and the warmth drives off condensation well
[03:42] <Wild-Wing> i would love to build a box without any air in it
[03:43] <SpeedEvil> Why?
[03:43] <SpeedEvil> In practice, we've found that with an insulated box, with a hole for the camera, it tends to work OK
[03:43] <SpeedEvil> internal temperatures don't fall much below 0
[03:44] <Wild-Wing> i guess
[03:46] <SpeedEvil> you might ask 3-6 hours earlier - when more people tend to be on
[03:46] <SpeedEvil> Also - have a read over the wiki
[03:46] <shauno> (or 12+ hours later, if you haven't mastered time travel ;)
[03:47] <SpeedEvil> I meant tomorrow :)
[03:48] <shauno> sorry, nearly 4am, I'm allowed to find that funny
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[07:17] <m1x10> morning all
[07:17] <jonsowman> morning m1x10
[07:17] <jonsowman> :)
[07:18] <m1x10> strange but all my orders come in one week using the cheapest shipping!
[07:18] <m1x10> usually takes 2-3weeks
[07:19] <jonsowman> excellent
[07:19] <jonsowman> :)
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[07:49] <fsphil> where from m1x10?
[07:57] <m1x10> what?
[07:58] <m1x10> us2gr
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[08:11] <fsphil> that is good
[08:28] <m1x10> :)
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[08:35] <jonsowman_work> hi all
[08:36] <m1x10> hi jonsowman
[08:41] <fsphil> morning!
[08:43] <jonsowman_work> think someone spilt coffee on the NOAA dods server
[08:44] <jonsowman_work> the NOAA's idea of High Availability is an interesting one...
[08:45] <fsphil> maybe it's on the top floor?
[08:45] <jonsowman_work> heh
[08:45] <jonsowman_work> nope it's broked :(
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[08:46] <fsphil> probably middle of the night there, I wonder if someone's been alerted
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[08:47] <jonsowman_work_> me.underscores++;
[08:47] <jonsowman_work_> mm yeh, there's probably a warning on a screen somewhere that's turned off
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[08:50] <fsphil> hmm --> http://www.ukra.org.uk/notam
[08:51] <fsphil> a handier way of submitting a request for a notam
[08:51] <fsphil> or does it only work for rockets?
[08:52] <jonsowman_work> well I'm guessing it's just going to the same person
[08:52] <jonsowman_work> ausops@caa looks like the AUS section, and i'm guessing it goes to David Miller
[08:52] <fsphil> yea
[08:53] <jonsowman_work> who is not the most efficient of people
[08:53] <fsphil> yea++
[08:53] <fsphil> I'm hoping to get a reply from him today
[08:53] <jonsowman_work> is he in the office at the moment?
[08:53] <jonsowman_work> ah right
[08:53] <jonsowman_work> just phone him
[08:53] <jonsowman_work> keep nagging until he does it
[08:53] <fsphil> He was away, suppose to be back yesterday
[08:53] <jonsowman_work> gotcha
[08:54] <jonsowman_work> have you phoned him at all yet?
[08:54] <fsphil> ah, sorry he's back today - 29th
[08:54] <fsphil> if I don't hear back today I will, but he was quick at replying to the emails last time
[08:55] <jonsowman_work> cool :)
[08:55] <fsphil> though I could have just caught him on a good day :)
[08:55] <jonsowman_work> haha
[08:55] <jonsowman_work> he's a nice bloke and quite helpful
[08:55] <jonsowman_work> just seems to have huge amounts of work
[08:56] <jonsowman_work> I've got a direct number for him somewhere, though as the AUS seems to have only about 3 members of staff there's not a lot of point
[08:58] <earthshine> morning
[08:58] <fsphil> hiya earthshine
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[09:06] <fsphil> this is becom
[09:07] <fsphil> becoming a habit jonsowman_work
[09:07] <jonsowman_work_> D:
[09:07] <jonsowman_work_> i blame firefox/webchat/work internet
[09:08] <fsphil> yea our internet has fits now and then
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[09:16] <timbobel> m1x10: i made some test with the spycam, and the little battery lasted over an hour (then the 4gb card was full).
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[09:18] <timbobel> morning
[09:22] <juxta|console> hey timbobel
[09:43] <jonsowman_work> grr NOAA
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[09:51] <earthshine> ?
[09:52] <jonsowman_work> dods server is down :(
[09:52] <jonsowman_work> predictor dead
[09:53] <fsphil> I predict a riot
[09:54] <jonsowman_work> \o/
[09:54] Action: fsphil gets his coat...
[09:54] <timbobel> juxta: how can i check if the Navmode is set to aviation? the falcom does not retain its settings, even with battery
[09:54] <timbobel> hence the problem why i keep getting problems i think, it just has to get out of a super-cold start each time i think
[09:55] <m1x10> timbobel hi
[09:56] <m1x10> my orders came
[09:56] <m1x10> :)
[09:56] <timbobel> lol really
[09:56] <timbobel> fast
[09:56] <m1x10> yeah strange
[09:56] <earthshine> what did you order?
[09:56] eroomde (836f0142@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.111.1.66) joined #highaltitude.
[09:56] <m1x10> i just soldered the logic level converter with my new third-hand tool :)
[09:57] <jonsowman_work> morning eroomde
[09:57] <m1x10> earthshine, many things. FSA module, GSM cell, tools and other stuff
[09:58] <eroomde> jonsowman_work: hi - what's new?
[09:58] <m1x10> timbobel: i think at the end of day I will have some results for you
[09:58] <jonsowman_work> eroomde: not a huge amount. last day of work tomorrow :) how about you?
[09:58] <timbobel> great thanks
[09:59] <eroomde> last day!?
[09:59] <eroomde> you've only just started
[09:59] <jonsowman_work> heh been here 6 weeks now
[10:00] <eroomde> really?
[10:00] <eroomde> it's only like july week3
[10:00] <jonsowman_work> started on 21st june
[10:00] <eroomde> you must have started the day may week finished
[10:00] <jonsowman_work> didn't have much of a break after term finished
[10:00] <jonsowman_work> yea i did
[10:01] <jonsowman_work> predictor is nearly ready for SRCF deployment :)
[10:02] <eroomde> cool
[10:02] Action: timbobel has to rewrite all his code since the falcom doesnt like it
[10:03] <jonsowman_work> how are things with you? you still working at CUED?
[10:07] <eroomde> not bad yep
[10:07] <eroomde> still at cued
[10:07] <jonsowman_work> enjoying it?
[10:07] <eroomde> job's a goodun
[10:07] <jonsowman_work> excellent
[10:08] <eroomde> just setting up a windows box for the cnc router
[10:08] <eroomde> getting solidworks andf eagle on it
[10:08] <jonsowman_work> :)
[10:08] <eroomde> it's a nice machine, should be good to work on - dual 19 inch flat screens, no internet connection - it's a recipe for getting things done :)
[10:08] <eroomde> 2 x 250gh hdd, decent nvidia card
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[10:09] <jonsowman_work_> random firefox crash
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[10:16] <m1x10> holy crap, the level convertor does not do anything !
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[10:20] <m1x10> no current passes through !!!!!!!
[10:23] <eroomde> i find that if you add more exclamation marks, that often fixes it
[10:24] <m1x10> sure :)
[10:24] <eroomde> so a level converter doesn't necessarily let current pass through - they can be high impedance sources. Have you tried measuring the voltage rather than the current?
[10:24] <m1x10> eroomde, i measure the voltage
[10:24] <eroomde> and nothing is happening?
[10:24] <m1x10> 100%
[10:25] <m1x10> pins at the HV have correct voltage
[10:26] <m1x10> while pins at LV side have 0V
[10:26] <fsphil> have you connected both the 5v and 3.3v supply to the converter?
[10:27] <m1x10> at HV side I wire it with arduino 5V and GND
[10:28] <m1x10> and I wait for voltage at the LV side at the corresponding pins
[10:28] <fsphil> the board needs a 3.3v supply too
[10:28] <m1x10> !
[10:28] <m1x10> at which pin?
[10:29] <m1x10> its only converting TX/RX ?
[10:29] <fsphil> I'm not familiar with the board
[10:29] <fsphil> it still needs a supply of both voltages
[10:29] <m1x10> are u sure? u say u r not familiar
[10:30] <fsphil> the sparkfun board?
[10:30] <m1x10> y
[10:30] <fsphil> "The board needs to be powered from the two voltages sources (high voltage and low voltage) that your system is using. High voltage (5V for example) to the 'HV' pin, low voltage (2.8V for example) to 'LV', and ground from the system to the 'GND' pin"
[10:31] <fsphil> from the website
[10:31] <m1x10> oh
[10:31] <fsphil> it doesn't generate the 3.3v itself, it just uses whatever you supply on the LV ping
[10:31] <fsphil> -g
[10:31] <m1x10> I though the vcc and gnd pins were for converting too
[10:32] <m1x10> but seems they are used for supply
[10:32] <m1x10> ok let me try
[10:35] <eroomde> l
[10:37] <m1x10> ok i see some light
[10:38] <m1x10> ok voltage gets down to 3.3
[10:38] <m1x10> BUT
[10:38] <m1x10> RX/TX voltage goes down to 2.3V !!
[10:38] <m1x10> "The SparkFun logic level converter is a small device that safely steps down 5V signals to 3.3V and steps up 3.3V to 5V. "
[10:40] <m1x10> hm
[10:40] <m1x10> that was rx pin
[10:40] <m1x10> tx pin goes down to 3.3
[10:40] <m1x10> maybe cause RX pin is not receiving anything?
[10:46] <fsphil> it will step up to and down from whatever voltages you provide at HV and LV
[10:46] <fsphil> in theory anyway
[10:47] <m1x10> TX goes from 5V to 3.3V while RX goes from 5V to 2.3V
[10:48] <m1x10> fsphil do you have the FSA gps ?
[10:49] <fsphil> I do, although I haven't tried it yet
[10:49] <m1x10> when its locked it blinks the green led every second?
[10:49] <m1x10> ok
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[10:52] <m1x10> timbobel: While the GPS is first getting its bearings, it's power draw is around 100 mA based on our measurements. When it locks on, its power requirements have been measured in the 20 mA range.
[10:52] <m1x10> from esawdust
[10:53] <fsphil> m1x10, shouldn't the rx go from 3.3v to 5v?
[10:53] <m1x10> so the 50mA provived by arduino are not sufficient. Thats causes the you lock issue
[10:54] <jonsowman_work> fsphil: control buttons on predictor better now?
[10:54] <jonsowman_work> http://hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict/#!/uuid=f7be9870034af4961d5a04e59319fa0e6b7c00a0
[10:54] <fsphil> masterpiece!
[10:54] <jonsowman_work> :)
[10:55] <fsphil> the whole thing is looking really well, I love the slight transparency in the windows too
[10:55] <m1x10> jonsowman awesome. everyday i visit yur site to see any changes !
[10:56] <jonsowman_work> hehe. thank you both :)
[10:56] <m1x10> fsphil what do mean?
[10:58] <fsphil> ah n/m, I just looked at the picture of the board. it has three groups of rx/tx
[10:58] <m1x10> its 2 groups
[10:58] <fsphil> the 2.3v is coming from the LV device, yea?
[10:58] <m1x10> the middle is the vcc gnd
[10:58] <fsphil> ah so it is
[10:59] <m1x10> at LV side RX pin has 2.3
[10:59] <fsphil> that's the RXO pin?
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[11:01] <m1x10> yes RXO
[11:01] <m1x10> its ok?
[11:03] <m1x10> Im not sure but the FSA must have locked and blinking its green led
[11:03] <fsphil> aah, from the comments on the product page: "The resistors to generate a 3.3v output low side should be 10k R1 and ~20k R2. As is, the two 10k resistors split the voltage 50% resulting in approx 2.5v low side"
[11:04] <juxta|console> hey jonsowman_work
[11:04] <m1x10> When i reset arduino it takes some time until the led starts blibnking
[11:04] <jonsowman_work> hello juxta|console :)
[11:04] <m1x10> fsphil what does this mean ?
[11:04] <juxta|console> did the window colours on the predictor change? ;p
[11:04] <jonsowman_work> juxta|console: only the buttons in the scenario info box
[11:04] <juxta|console> (or maybe its this monitor here)
[11:04] <jonsowman_work> have I broken something?
[11:04] <juxta|console> nah, colour just looks funny
[11:04] <fsphil> m1x10, means the RXO will output ~2.5v instead of 3.3v -- it *should* be fine though, for most devices
[11:05] <jonsowman_work> i only changed the buttons colour
[11:05] <jonsowman_work> not good?
[11:05] <juxta|console> but this monitor doesnt exactly look like a grade A specimen, I suspect that's to blame :)
[11:05] <fsphil> looks fine here
[11:05] <jonsowman_work> i was trying to make them look like the Run Prediction button
[11:05] <m1x10> "A digital one going into the RXI pin on the 5V side will show up on the RXO pin on the 3.3V side as 3.3V."
[11:05] <jonsowman_work> same colour scheme at least
[11:06] <juxta|console> yeah, they look the same
[11:06] <m1x10> fsphil thats what they write !! its false !
[11:06] <juxta|console> but everything looks funny, and now I have the OSD stuck on the screen, haha
[11:06] <juxta|console> I suspect the monitor - anyway
[11:07] <m1x10> one comment says: In fact, a digital one going into the RXI pin on the 5V side will show up on the RXO pin on the 3.3V side as 2.5V.
[11:07] <fsphil> m1x10, seems to be yep.
[11:07] <juxta|console> I was going to ask you again re the hourly predictor's bandwidth - did you say ~2GiB/update & 4 updates/day?
[11:07] <jonsowman_work> more like 1GiB/update I reckon
[11:07] <m1x10> sparkfun lies !
[11:07] <jonsowman_work> but that's a very loose estimate
[11:07] <juxta|console> alrighty
[11:07] <jonsowman_work> update as often as you want, it's just cron'd
[11:07] <jonsowman_work> but updates are released every 6 hours, so updating just after those is wise
[11:08] <jonsowman_work> the model for a given time is released 4-6 hours afterwards
[11:08] <jonsowman_work> so the midnight GFS model is released about 5-6am
[11:08] <juxta|console> nice, okay - just wondering if my VPS provider will catch me as traffic is supposed to be metered in one direction, but i've worked out they only meter outbound - they might complain if I start pushing GB's/day though downstream :P
[11:08] <jonsowman_work> mm you could email and ask
[11:09] <jonsowman_work> if you're not near your outbound limit you should be OK
[11:09] <juxta|console> ahh that will just raise the alarm, I'll just do it, haha
[11:09] <fsphil> lol
[11:09] <jonsowman_work> datacenters normally bill the reseller equally for inbound and outbound
[11:10] <jonsowman_work> so it's rather odd your provider only meters outbound
[11:10] <jonsowman_work> oh well
[11:10] <juxta|console> the reason they dont meter inbound is that their network is a little funny-like - they can't seem to stop their machines from flooding their customers boxes with DNS queries and NETBIOS lookups
[11:10] <juxta|console> so I'm racking up 15GB/month of rubbish incoming data - wouldnt really be fair if they metered it
[11:10] <fsphil> euu
[11:11] <jonsowman_work> ahh I see
[11:11] <fsphil> netbios
[11:11] <juxta|console> yeah I know, netbios
[11:11] Action: fsphil shudders
[11:11] <juxta|console> I had to dump the incoming data to work out what the hell was going on, it's loads of netbios & dns queries mainly
[11:11] <juxta|console> but a few SQL connections attempts too
[11:11] <fsphil> all from the local network?
[11:11] <juxta|console> maybe they just bought a batch of really dodgy IP's and a million office machines think I'm some sort of nameserver
[11:12] <juxta|console> yeah same subnet
[11:12] <jonsowman_work> bizarre
[11:12] <juxta|console> and resolving to their hostnames too
[11:12] <jonsowman_work> who's the host?
[11:12] <juxta|console> http://www.crucial.com.au/
[11:12] <juxta|console> they're actually a fairly well regarded company here too
[11:13] <jonsowman_work> mm fair enough
[11:13] <jonsowman_work> oh well, make use of the unmetered inbound :D
[11:13] <juxta|console> hehe
[11:13] <jonsowman_work> VPS or dedi?
[11:13] <juxta|console> VPS
[11:13] <juxta|console> cheap cheap VPS
[11:13] <juxta|console> but seems to work well
[11:13] <jonsowman_work> ram?
[11:13] <juxta|console> what are the ram needs of the predictor - not too great hopefully? ;p
[11:13] <juxta|console> not much - 128 or 256 I think, have to check
[11:14] <jonsowman_work> hmm you might have problems with 128
[11:14] <juxta|console> little enough to stop me from using apache anyway
[11:14] <juxta|console> I use lighttpd
[11:14] <jonsowman_work> hehe I like lighty
[11:14] <jonsowman_work> though I run Cherokee for my main VPS setup
[11:14] <jonsowman_work> awesome webserver :)
[11:15] <juxta|console> was also looking at ngnix, but never got around to trying it
[11:15] <juxta|console> back in a tick
[11:15] <jonsowman_work> okay :)
[11:15] <jonsowman_work> yeh me too actually
[11:22] <jonsowman_work> back :) best thing about cherokee is its config interface
[11:22] <juxta|console> how's it configured? not just a flat file config?
[11:23] <jonsowman_work> nope
[11:23] <jonsowman_work> http://www.cherokee-project.com/doc/bundle_cherokee-admin.html
[11:24] <juxta|console> nice!
[11:25] <m1x10> anyone knows the Falcom FSA03 default uart speed?
[11:25] <jonsowman_work> juxta|console: see PM :)
[11:29] <fsphil> m1x10, 38400 baud
[11:29] <juxta|console> some aqre 38400, some 9600
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[11:35] <m1x10> ok 38400
[11:35] <m1x10> fsphil, when its powered its starts outputting nmea or ublox data?
[11:39] <timbobel> the function "interrupts()" is crapping up my code. it completely stalls it
[11:39] <timbobel> unheared of?
[11:40] <m1x10> timbobel did u solve your problem?
[11:42] <fsphil> I don't know yet m1x10, sorry. I haven't gotten that far :)
[11:43] <m1x10> does the green led blinks?
[11:45] <jonsowman_work> well the CUSF hourly predictor is broken too
[11:45] <jonsowman_work> so it seems it's definitely an NOAA-end problem
[11:46] <m1x10> ping juxta
[11:47] <fsphil> I don't know that either - I haven't applied power to them yet
[11:47] <fsphil> although I really should have by now
[11:47] Action: timbobel is getting good results rewriting code (with bits and pieces of juxta)
[11:48] Action: timbobel 's A560 is already at 500 pictures on lithium with 100% battery still...
[11:48] <fsphil> lithium batteries are amazing
[11:49] <m1x10> heh
[11:49] <m1x10> fsphil, timbobel: I got lock !
[11:49] <m1x10> $GPGGA,104857.00,4038.88191,N,02256.67159,E,1,05,2.90,123.6,M,35.5,M,,*51
[11:50] <jonsowman_work> :)
[11:50] <m1x10> FSA with Level converter and arduino 5V !
[11:51] <m1x10> timbobel now I think I can help you
[11:52] <m1x10> everything works here
[11:53] <timbobel> ah good
[11:53] <timbobel> with just the 3v3?
[11:53] <m1x10> yep
[11:53] <timbobel> im going to be trying that too, my lock is hoooorrible inreliable
[11:53] <timbobel> and, obviously, the settings arent saved with the battery
[11:54] <timbobel> $GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*48
[11:54] <timbobel> sigh
[11:54] <m1x10> how do wire rx/tx to arudino ?
[11:54] <timbobel> well, the arduino can receive the TX from the FSA, its 3v3 but doesnt matter
[11:54] <m1x10> lets talk about RX first
[11:54] <timbobel> BUT if you send stuff to the falcom.. you should put a pot devider there
[11:54] <timbobel> arduino RX to FSA TX
[11:55] <m1x10> straight?
[11:55] <timbobel> arduino TX > potential devide > FSA RX
[11:55] <timbobel> yes!
[11:55] <m1x10> lol
[11:55] <m1x10> ard RX is 5V
[11:55] <timbobel> why not.. the fsa just sends(Tx) stuff at 3v3 that the arduino can decode
[11:55] <m1x10> ok
[11:55] <m1x10> correct
[11:55] <m1x10> as you see actual data
[11:56] <m1x10> forget the TX for a bit
[11:56] <m1x10> NewSoftSerial nss(GPS_RX, GPS_TX);
[11:56] <m1x10> if(nss.available())
[11:56] <m1x10> Serial.print(nss.read(), BYTE);
[11:56] <m1x10> oops sory
[11:57] <m1x10> propably you already do this
[11:57] <m1x10> on the breakout
[11:57] <m1x10> the led is blinking green light?
[11:57] <fsphil> timbobel, did you connect both gnd pins on the fsa03?
[12:00] <timbobel> "both"?
[12:00] <timbobel> i have the breakout
[12:00] <fsphil> ah, fair enough
[12:00] <timbobel> led isnt blinking much since it hasnt got a lock
[12:01] <fsphil> I'm just going to solder some wires to the fsa03, not sure if I need to do both gnd pins yet
[12:01] <jonsowman_work> fsphil: would ground both of them if I were you
[12:02] <m1x10> timbobel
[12:02] <m1x10> i removed many wires
[12:02] <m1x10> im not even using the converter and its still works
[12:02] <fsphil> hmm, I probably will jonsowman_work
[12:03] <fsphil> seems to be a very fussy device
[12:03] <jonsowman_work> gpses are weird magical things
[12:03] <m1x10> the converter will be need only for TX
[12:03] <juxta|console> yeah, you don't need level conversion for the RX
[12:03] <m1x10> gps needs two grounds i think. 1 for antenna and 1 for chip
[12:03] <juxta|console> as 3.3v will (at least should) by over the 'high' threhold on a 5v system
[12:04] <m1x10> correct junderwood
[12:04] <m1x10> correct juxta
[12:04] <juxta|console> threshold* even
[12:06] <m1x10> timbobel, so now I wired directly ard 3.3v to breakout 3.3v. GND to GND. arduino pin 7 to TX on breakout.
[12:06] <m1x10> im locked almost immidiately
[12:07] <timbobel> ah
[12:07] <timbobel> mine sucks immediatelly
[12:08] <timbobel> and stays that wa
[12:08] <timbobel> y
[12:08] <m1x10> really strange
[12:08] <m1x10> i didnt try the battery issue yet
[12:08] <m1x10> did u ever had a lock ?
[12:10] <timbobel> y
[12:11] <m1x10> where do u live? what time did u lock?
[12:11] <timbobel> holland, not recorded
[12:11] <timbobel> ive got it hooked to the 3v3 now
[12:11] <timbobel> now suddenly my Nav setting fails..
[12:12] <m1x10> remove the battery for 1hour
[12:12] <m1x10> so all setting are clerared
[12:12] <m1x10> then just wire and println to see if get a lock
[12:12] <juxta|console> 1 second without battery power is enough
[12:13] <juxta|console> that GPS has no flash memory, only battery buffered ram
[12:13] <m1x10> maybe you cause some problem when doing the settings
[12:13] <m1x10> ok, you heard juxta
[12:13] <m1x10> juxta this code is correct?
[12:13] <m1x10> http://projecthorus.org/?page_id=940
[12:13] <m1x10> im now ready to switch off the RMC
[12:14] <timbobel> im done with this module
[12:14] <timbobel> bah
[12:15] <m1x10> hey relax
[12:15] <m1x10> with got the same thing
[12:15] <juxta|console> i think this one is more up to date m1x10: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03
[12:15] <juxta|console> but yes, it should work
[12:16] <jonsowman_work> juxta|console: you're so lucky to be able to fly amateur over there :(
[12:16] <m1x10> timbobel when you first bought it before applying any settings was it locking?
[12:16] <timbobel> yeah it gets lock ever so much time
[12:16] <timbobel> it usually takes 5 minutes to get the time lock
[12:17] <timbobel> then another half hour in front of the open window
[12:17] <m1x10> take your laptop and the electro stuff and go out
[12:18] <timbobel> too busy
[12:18] <timbobel> too messy
[12:18] <m1x10> to examine if its a sattelite issue
[12:18] <juxta|console> jonsowman_work: yeah, I know - it's one thing we *are* allowed to do here!
[12:18] <m1x10> wait messy? just a laptop the usb wire to arduino and the module. go shit to an open place for 10 minutes and try
[12:19] <timbobel> i got 20 wires into my laptop
[12:19] <timbobel> 20 in
[12:19] <juxta|console> or rather one thing we've not yet been prohibited from doing ;p
[12:19] <m1x10> lol
[12:19] <m1x10> why to much
[12:19] <m1x10> ?
[12:19] <timbobel> i should maybe add i live in the center of a city, my window's at the marketplace
[12:19] <timbobel> and today is marketday
[12:20] <juxta|console> jonsowman_work: we built the payload enclosure for the FM repeater today, and did some more testing, it's working great - we've been making contacts over a 20km or so radius with it connectred to an antenna on a 10m tower
[12:20] <juxta|console> (1W TX power)
[12:23] <jonsowman_work> wow nice
[12:24] <m1x10> juxta: ackByteID > 9 or ackByteID == 9 ??
[12:25] <m1x10> i spotted this diff in your code and ukhas
[12:27] <m1x10> that guy uses just NMEA to disable the sentences !
[12:28] <fsphil> sizeof(setGLL)/sizeof(uint8_t) <-- now that's future proofing it :)
[12:29] <juxta|console> should be > 9 m1x10, that was a mistake on my part
[12:29] <juxta|console> hence suggesting the code on UKHAS ;p
[12:29] <m1x10> ok
[12:31] <m1x10> hmm, I changed something with the wires and now I dont get a lock !
[12:37] <timbobel> so juxta it should be more than that?
[12:37] <timbobel> could be the reason why my "Nav" settings "FAILED!" most of the time
[12:39] <m1x10> :)
[12:40] <juxta|console> timbobel: shouldnt make a difference, it was just to be by the books really
[12:48] <juxta|console> fsphil: ;)
[12:49] <juxta|console> not really needed with uint8_t I guess but oh well ;p
[12:51] <m1x10> timbobel now something happens to me and I dont get a lock. still waiting 10minutes.
[12:51] <jonsowman_work> <3 jquery UI
[12:52] <juxta|console> jquery is rather brilliant
[12:52] <jonsowman_work> jqueryui :)
[12:52] <jonsowman_work> http://jqueryui.com/
[12:53] <juxta|console> ah, this i've not seen
[12:53] <juxta|console> awesome, this looke great too! :D
[12:53] <m1x10> ive use it before :)
[12:53] <jonsowman_work> juxta|console: it's fantastic
[12:53] <jonsowman_work> look at those buttons on the predictor
[12:53] <jonsowman_work> rounded the corners off just by adding a class
[12:54] <jonsowman_work> fsphil: ^^
[12:54] <timbobel> jonsowman, shounldnt you be working?
[12:54] <timbobel> ;)
[12:54] <jonsowman_work> lunch break :)
[12:54] <jonsowman_work> decided to round off some buttons. as one does
[12:55] <juxta|console> nice :)
[12:55] <jonsowman_work> jquery makes javascript what it should be
[13:02] <jonsowman_work> the bbc released their js framework a while back
[13:02] <jonsowman_work> that's got some cool things
[13:02] <fsphil> jonsowman_work, oh that's nice now
[13:02] <jonsowman_work> http://www.bbc.co.uk/glow/
[13:03] <jonsowman_work> fsphil: is it better like that?
[13:03] <fsphil> yes
[13:03] <jonsowman_work> cool
[13:03] <jonsowman_work> :)
[13:05] <fsphil> so that page uses the jqueryui?
[13:05] <jonsowman_work> yup
[13:05] <jonsowman_work> for bits of it
[13:05] <jonsowman_work> eg. making windows draggable
[13:14] <m1x10> timbobel still no lock, something happened
[13:17] <timbobel> join the club!!!
[13:17] <m1x10> lol
[13:31] <m1x10> i think its a satellite issue. maybe the time i first powered it on satellites were in good position in relation with my place.
[13:32] <m1x10> so the module didnt draw much current
[13:32] <m1x10> now that satellites are hard to find the module needs more power where it doesnt get it from 3.3v pin
[13:33] <m1x10> at esawdust.com they say it needs 200mA when its trying to lock
[13:33] <m1x10> while vcc pin provides max 50mA
[13:34] <m1x10> I had exactly the same issue with my GSM shield.
[13:34] <m1x10> on tx burst it was drawing 2A while I had it connected to usb which provides up to 500mA
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[13:35] <m1x10> when I gave it power from wall adapter it immediately registered to a gsm network
[13:36] <juxta|console> hehehe: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/07/wikileaks-to-leak-5000-open-source-java.html
[13:37] <jonsowman_work> "Open Source does not mean the source is somehow 'open'."
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[13:39] <juxta|console> our resident java guy was not impressed ;p
[13:39] <jonsowman_work> haha
[13:39] <jonsowman_work> funny though
[13:40] <jonsowman_work> er... i've gone a bit mad on the rounded corners...
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[13:40] <juxta|console> rounded corners for all
[13:41] <jonsowman_work> how is that?
[13:41] <jonsowman_work> better colour window borders to match the colour scheme
[13:41] <jonsowman_work> and all rounded :)
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[13:53] <jonsowman_work> yay noaa server working again \o/
[13:55] <juxta|console> hurrah, I like it jonsowman_work
[13:55] <jonsowman_work> :)
[13:55] <juxta|console> now just to try it on a non-sucky monitor
[13:56] <jonsowman_work> hehe
[13:56] <jonsowman_work> hopefully it's your monitor rather than a terrible choice of colour scheme
[13:56] <jonsowman_work> :P
[14:04] <timbobel> supernoob question: i have a eurosize PCB (you know)
[14:04] <timbobel> so how should i connect pins..
[14:04] <timbobel> solder everything over?
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[14:08] <timbobel> okay so everything is working except for the SD card
[14:08] <timbobel> im now going outside and wait for an SMS when it has a good fix
[14:10] <timbobel> why send sms when i have ntx2
[14:10] <timbobel> ill just have the misses go out
[14:11] <juxta|console> what's a eurosize pcb? :S
[14:11] <juxta|console> oh, a board format, interesting
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[14:27] <timbobel> whera can you see where the sats are
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[14:31] <timbobel> 30 mins outside clear air on balcony
[14:32] <timbobel> No lock whatsoever
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[14:33] <m1x10> timbobel got lock :)
[14:33] <timbobel> you have got lock?
[14:33] <m1x10> y
[14:33] <timbobel> at least the cellphone's sms worked straight away when i hooked it up to my new code
[14:33] <m1x10> i went somewhere and now that i came back the led is blinking
[14:34] <timbobel> ntx2 works like a charm as well
[14:34] <timbobel> yeah im going for a stroll down lonely street as well
[14:34] <timbobel> going for the HAB test mode
[14:34] <m1x10> :)
[14:34] <m1x10> good luck
[14:38] <timbobel> where can i find the raw code again
[14:38] <m1x10> what code?
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[14:38] <timbobel> got it
[14:40] <m1x10> i reset it and i got lock in 1 minute
[14:41] <m1x10> i've wire it directly to arduino
[14:41] <timbobel> u have the breakout too?
[14:41] <m1x10> yes
[14:41] <timbobel> hm
[14:41] <m1x10> no intermidiate things
[14:42] <m1x10> arduino 3.3, GND, pin7 to breakout 3.3, GND, TX
[14:42] <timbobel> h,m
[14:43] <m1x10> :(
[14:43] <m1x10> i feel you so much
[14:43] <m1x10> felt like you many times
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[15:02] <m1x10> timbobel: http://imagebin.org/107277
[15:04] <m1x10> this GPS got another problem with GPGLL sentence
[15:05] <m1x10> always i get $GPGL,40389477,N,0256.6499,E14035.00,AA*6C
[15:05] <m1x10> GPGL !!
[15:05] <m1x10> and somehow this corrupts the next and previous sentence
[15:11] <junderwood> m1x10, does the checksum add up?
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> Are you sure you've got the baudrate set right?
[15:12] <junderwood> Incorrect checksum (and I bet it is) suggests you are losing characters.
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> And is this recieved on the PC?
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> The rest of the line looks wrong too
[15:12] <junderwood> Baud rate wrong or buffer overflow would be my guesses
[15:12] <m1x10> ok let me change it to 38400 baud
[15:13] <junderwood> If you have GPGL, the baud rate isn't far off.
[15:13] <SpeedEvil> baud rate slightly wrong, so you're getting framing errors
[15:13] <SpeedEvil> not much off
[15:13] <fsphil> stop bits?
[15:13] <SpeedEvil> I would expect the second L to appear then
[15:13] <SpeedEvil> oh
[15:13] <m1x10> i read from arduino
[15:13] <SpeedEvil> if it's the first one that's dissapearing
[15:14] <m1x10> on pc
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> can you read raw from the GPS to the PC>
[15:14] <junderwood> The clock on the Arduino or the baud setup registers will be slightly out
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> I'd suspect lost interrupts for example.
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> alternatively
[15:15] <m1x10> switched to 38400 and got gargbage
[15:15] <junderwood> no surprise
[15:15] <m1x10> 9600 works ok
[15:15] <junderwood> Try 9400 or 9800
[15:15] <m1x10> check this out
[15:15] <m1x10> $GPGSV,2,2,07,25,59,313,38,27,32,156,30,52306,2*49$GPGL,40386812,N,0256.6082,E,4152200,A,*6$GPRMC,141523.00,A,4038.68246,N,02256.60071,E,2.449,152.19,290710,,,A*64
[15:16] <m1x10> im losing CR LF chars
[15:16] <m1x10> comes in one sentence
[15:16] <SpeedEvil> I think you're losing more than that
[15:16] <m1x10> one line
[15:16] <SpeedEvil> Do you always get GPGL
[15:16] <SpeedEvil> Or is it sometimes LL
[15:16] <m1x10> $GPLL,408.6880,N,0256.5927,E14152.00,AA*6D$GPRMC,141525.00,A,4038.68904,N,02256.59990,E,0.213,153.08,290710,,,A*69
[15:16] <juxta|console> m1x10: are you using software serial?
[15:17] <m1x10> yes, newsoftserial
[15:17] <juxta|console> okay - probably what's happening is all that data is arriving faster than you're emptying the NSS buffer and it's over running and you're losing data
[15:18] <m1x10> !
[15:18] <m1x10> fix?
[15:18] <juxta|console> first try this to see if it helps:
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> Best fix is to use a hardware UART
[15:18] <juxta|console> (well yeah, that ;p)
[15:18] <juxta|console> but
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> Or asm.
[15:18] <juxta|console> try settings your hardware serial to something fast, say 115200b
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> fast?
[15:19] <juxta|console> then write a program to print each char as it arrives at the software serial striaght to the hardware serial
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> if you reconfig the GPS to only output GPGLL, 2400 should be plenty
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> even 1200
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> which eases timing lots
[15:19] <m1x10> yes disabling most sentences will fix it
[15:20] <m1x10> but thats a workaround
[15:20] <m1x10> not a fix
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
[15:20] <juxta|console> SpeedEvil: yeah, but the gps is on the software serial - basically im just suggesting dealing with the chars really quickly and getting them out of the software buffer and onto the hardware serial port fast, before the software buffer overflows
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> GPS should be on the hardware serial probably
[15:20] <juxta|console> as an exercise in debug only
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> as you don't care about latency on the other side
[15:20] <juxta|console> yeah, it should be
[15:21] <juxta|console> but on an arduino with a single UART that can be fiddly
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> why?
[15:21] <m1x10> i will try hardwarew uart
[15:22] <juxta|console> if you're programming the arduino as nature intended you're programing it over the uart, you'll need to be disconneting the GPS to do that, and if you want to debug over a software uart then you'll need a TTL serial cable, rather than using the USB FTDI serial onboard (which is connected directly to the hardware uart)
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> I'd argue that as nature intended is to scrap all the arduino libs
[15:23] <juxta|console> haha
[15:23] <juxta|console> yes well certainly it's not ideal for all things
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> Encouraging people to workaround implementation limits with stuff like software UART...
[15:24] <m1x10> but i cant use arduino's uart cause it been used from usb
[15:24] <juxta|console> well, you can m1x10
[15:24] <juxta|console> but you're straying from the beaten path then
[15:25] <m1x10> noone had this problem before?
[15:26] <juxta|console> you could increase the size of the software serial buffer if you wanted m1x10
[15:26] <juxta|console> but that's not really ideal either
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[15:27] <m1x10> wait
[15:28] <jonsowman_work> yeh I had that problem I think with Ferret
[15:28] <jonsowman_work> wasn't using newSoftSerial though
[15:28] <jonsowman_work> http://github.com/jonsowman/ferret/blob/master/code/ferret2/ferret2.pde
[15:28] <jonsowman_work> had to change the values of the two #define s at the top
[15:32] <m1x10> jonsowman_work mine works at 9600
[15:34] <m1x10> timbobel I also noticed that i dont get a lock when antenna looks horizontaly
[15:34] <m1x10> i have to put it at 20deg then i get lock
[15:35] <m1x10> this antenna is omnidirectional ?
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[15:42] <SpeedEvil> no.
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> It's somewhat directiona
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> l
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> is it outside?
[15:42] <m1x10> no
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> Maybe something in the structire you're in is shielding it, so it needs to pick up low elevation satellites.
[15:43] <m1x10> if its somewhat directional, at which direction is it accepting? top ?
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> It detects all the way down to maybe 20 degrees or so above the horizon or so
[15:44] <m1x10> ok
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> If you're in a very obstructed overhead environment, tilting it may pick up low-down sats that enable a fix
[15:54] <m1x10> disabling all other sentences reduced the data in software buffer and i get clean stuff
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[15:56] <m1x10> $GPGGA,145625.00,4038.88554,N,02256.67035,E,1,06,7.59,132.8,M,35.5,M,,*54
[15:56] <m1x10> $GPGGA,145626.00,4038.88565,N,02256.66990,E,1,06,7.59,133.1,M,35.5,M,,*5A
[15:56] <m1x10> $GPGGA,145627.00,4038.88491,N,02256.66968,E,1,06,7.59,132.8,M,35.5,M,,*5E
[15:56] <m1x10> $GPGGA,145628.00,4038.88555,N,02256.66973,E,1,06,7.59,133.1,M,35.5,M,,*5A
[15:56] <m1x10> $GPGGA,145629.00,4038.88569,N,02256.66962,E,1,06,7.59,133.2,M,35.5,M,,*57
[15:56] <m1x10> $GPGGA,145630.00,4038.88579,N,02256.66948,E,1,06,2.25,133.3,M,35.5,M,,*59
[15:56] <m1x10> :)
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[16:01] <fsphil> sweet
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[16:14] <m1x10> anyone have detailed datasheet of fsa03 ?
[16:15] <m1x10> telling which sentences supports and ublox propriatary commands
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[16:20] <juxta> m1x10, http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/GPS/Modules/u-blox5_Protocol_Specifications%28GPS.G5-X-07036%29.pdf
[16:20] <m1x10> thx
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[16:25] <m1x10> in the line "$PUBX,40,GGA,0,0,0,0*5A"
[16:25] <m1x10> this is to set off
[16:25] <m1x10> which zero is the one to set to 1 to enable ?
[16:27] <m1x10> i assume its the 2nd zero
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[16:33] <timbobel> i had a lock...!
[16:33] <timbobel> although it took me 15 minutes of strolling through the town
[16:34] <m1x10> :(
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[17:05] <timbobel> never buy LM335 tempsensors
[17:06] <fsphil> noted :)
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[17:32] <juxta> the iphone 4 evidently has just gone on sale here, there are loads of people hanging out on the streets lining up at 2am
[17:32] <juxta> it's freezing, and all of them have iphones already
[17:32] <juxta> it's somewhat beyond me
[17:37] <jonsowman> haha
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[18:05] <timbobel> ehm
[18:05] <timbobel> do i need someone to add me if i want to use the spacenear.us next sunday?
[18:05] <timbobel> my code will be $$TBL,
[18:09] <jonsowman> timbobel: we need to set up an XML tracker
[18:09] <timbobel> could you?
[18:09] <jonsowman> you need to get your telemetry completely finished first
[18:09] <timbobel> it is?
[18:09] <jonsowman> can i have some sample strings?
[18:09] <timbobel> sure
[18:10] <timbobel> $$TBL,61,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0,-40,9;11824;12336*5A
[18:10] <timbobel> $$TBL,62,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0,-38,4;11824;12336*5B
[18:10] <timbobel> $$TBL,63,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0,-36,9;11824;12336*59
[18:10] <timbobel> $$TBL,64,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0,-36,4;11824;12336*53
[18:10] <timbobel> $$TBL,65,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0,-35,9;11824;12336*5C
[18:10] <timbobel> $$TBL,66,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0,-31,9;11824;12336*5B
[18:10] <timbobel> $$TBL,67,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0,-32,4;11824;12336*54
[18:10] <timbobel> $$TBL,68,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0,-29,8;11824;12336*5D
[18:10] <timbobel> $$TBL,69,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0,-29,9;11824;12336*5D
[18:10] <timbobel> $$TBL,70,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0,-27,9;11824;12336*5B
[18:10] <timbobel> $$TBL,71,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0,-29,4;11824;12336*59
[18:10] <timbobel> $$TBL,72,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0,-26,9;11824;12336*58
[18:10] <timbobel> $$TBL,73,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0,-30,10;11824;12336*66
[18:10] <jonsowman> thanks that's fine
[18:10] <timbobel> sorry for the spam
[18:10] <jonsowman> so what've we got
[18:10] <timbobel> still waiting for that lock! =)
[18:10] <jonsowman> call,ticks,lat,lon,alt
[18:10] <jonsowman> what are the final 4 fields?
[18:11] <timbobel> txCount, time[0], time[1], time[2], latString, longString, altitude, intTemp, extTemp);
[18:11] <timbobel> :-)
[18:11] <jonsowman> you have 4 fields after altitude?
[18:12] <jonsowman> -30,10;11824;12336
[18:12] <timbobel> wait a sec
[18:12] <timbobel> not anymore
[18:12] <timbobel> just a sce
[18:12] <jonsowman> okay
[18:12] <timbobel> i had an old fldigi opened, ill start decoding again
[18:12] <jonsowman> just keep it running
[18:13] <jonsowman> I can watch the strings appears on the DL server
[18:13] <jonsowman> http://robertharrison.org/listen/view.php?reg=/TBL/
[18:13] <timbobel> its being weird moment
[18:13] <timbobel> ah it seems to be working
[18:14] <timbobel> nice and short string
[18:14] <jonsowman> timbobel: what are your telemetry parameters?
[18:14] <jonsowman> frequency, baud, shift
[18:15] <jonsowman> bits per char, stop bits
[18:15] <jonsowman> parity
[18:15] <timbobel> 535 Custom shift, 50b, 7n1
[18:15] <jonsowman> 535 ?!
[18:16] <timbobel> although, the custom shift is, well, shifting.
[18:16] <timbobel> yeah dont know why
[18:16] <timbobel> i've been having lots of problems with that
[18:16] <jonsowman> i'll set 425 shift for fldigi for the moment
[18:16] <jonsowman> as I think it's going to get stroppy if I try to give it 535
[18:16] <timbobel> thats okay (because also i have some higher grade resistors in to be tested)
[18:16] <jonsowman> ok
[18:17] <jonsowman> the other parameters please?
[18:17] <timbobel> 50 baud, 7n1
[18:17] <timbobel> 7bits per char, 1 stop bit, parity none
[18:17] <jonsowman> thank you
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[18:17] <timbobel> thanks a lot
[18:17] <jonsowman> frequency?
[18:17] <timbobel> the ntx's?
[18:17] <jonsowman> yep
[18:18] <timbobel> 434.650
[18:18] <jonsowman> thanks
[18:18] <jonsowman> can you get the payload running and decoding
[18:18] <jonsowman> and uploading to the DL server
[18:18] <timbobel> is it okay if i dont have a lock
[18:18] <jonsowman> yep
[18:19] <timbobel> booting..
[18:20] <DanielRichman> So is there any top tips or anything I should probably know about when ordering pcbs (seeed). Getting very close to sending them off to be made
[18:20] <DanielRichman> there should probably be a question mark somewhere in that sentence ^^
[18:21] <timbobel> uploading
[18:21] <jonsowman> thanks timbobel, just leave it running :)
[18:21] <timbobel> righto
[18:23] <jonsowman> your lat long is DD.ddddd ?
[18:25] <timbobel> degrees all the way
[18:25] <jonsowman> right
[18:25] <jonsowman> you should now be able to see your payload in fldigi
[18:25] <timbobel> =D
[18:25] <jonsowman> yes?
[18:25] <timbobel> yes yes
[18:25] <timbobel> i already could
[18:26] <timbobel> you mean tbl right
[18:26] <jonsowman> yes
[18:26] <timbobel> yeah
[18:26] <timbobel> ill reboot
[18:26] <jonsowman> no need
[18:26] <jonsowman> just need it to get lock
[18:26] <jonsowman> then it *should* appear on spacenear.us
[18:28] <timbobel> okay so only when it locks right?
[18:28] <jonsowman> yeh
[18:28] <jonsowman> the spacenear server will reject lat/lon of 0
[18:28] <timbobel> very nice
[18:30] <jonsowman> now make it get lock :D
[18:30] <timbobel> hmm thinking about how im going to do that
[18:30] <timbobel> i was outside trying too this afternoon
[18:30] <timbobel> then i got back
[18:30] <timbobel> turned out the fldigi crashen
[18:30] <timbobel> d
[18:31] <jonsowman> ohh dear
[18:31] <jonsowman> :(
[18:31] <timbobel> but i did get it too lock since it sent me an sms
[18:31] <jonsowman> cool
[18:33] <timbobel> so lets go outside
[18:35] <jonsowman> is it really -26 degrees in your payload?
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[18:38] <timbobel> allright so
[18:38] <timbobel> the girlfriend is outside
[18:39] <jonsowman> haha
[18:39] <jonsowman> nicely done
[18:41] <timbobel> shes now walking around the block, still no lock
[18:41] <timbobel> i still have reception though
[18:41] <timbobel> a lot of noise
[18:41] <Upu> $$AVA,8,17:41:22,053.7524,-1.8179,264,5,23,17*106A
[18:41] <Upu> 17'C here :)
[18:41] <timbobel> i cruy
[18:42] <timbobel> its getting sloppyyyy
[18:42] <timbobel> shes a bit too far haha
[18:42] <jonsowman> Upu: want things set up for spacenear?
[18:42] <jonsowman> whilst i'm in xml-making mode
[18:42] <Upu> Err can do yes I'm going to fit the NTX2 tonight hopefully
[18:43] <Upu> but then I need to borrow a radio or buy one to test it
[18:43] <timbobel> nah badly calibrated
[18:43] <timbobel> hooked up wrong too i thought
[18:43] <timbobel> omg where is she
[18:43] <jonsowman> is that your final telmetry and do you know all the telemetry parameteres?
[18:43] <jonsowman> timbobel: lol
[18:43] <timbobel> yeah that's it, not more.
[18:43] <Upu> that for me or Tim Jon ?
[18:43] <jonsowman> timbobel: sorry was talking to Upu
[18:43] <Upu> k
[18:44] <timbobel> lol ok
[18:44] <timbobel> upu when u lanch
[18:44] <timbobel> launch
[18:44] <Upu> ticker, utc time, lat,long,alt,satellites,tempint,tempext
[18:44] <jonsowman> righto
[18:44] <Upu> oh ages I need to turn this into something that can be moved :)
[18:44] <Upu> I touch it and it stops working I love breadboard :)
[18:45] <jonsowman> frequency/shift/baud/stopbits/parity/bits-per-char
[18:45] <Upu> oh 434.075 and whatever you tell me
[18:45] <Upu> that bit I need to look into
[18:45] <Upu> as this is where I'm in uncharted territory
[18:45] <jonsowman> okay we'll leave the xml till that's all done then :)
[18:45] <Upu> for me anyway
[18:45] <Upu> ok :)
[18:46] <Upu> right anyway food time :)bbl
[18:48] <timbobel> jezus falcom fsa03 crappiest ever.
[18:48] <timbobel> shes back
[18:48] <timbobel> no lock
[18:48] <timbobel> in 1000 seconds
[18:48] <timbobel> outside
[18:50] <timbobel> time for another module then
[18:50] <timbobel> can i use 2 GPS modules, 2 different payloads
[18:50] <timbobel> like $$TBL and $$TBB
[18:55] <timbobel> ?
[18:55] <timbobel> problem is that one of those crashes >24k
[19:00] <jonsowman> nothing to stop you
[19:00] <jonsowman> wonder why the falcom is finding it so hard
[19:02] <timbobel> yeah its awful
[19:03] <jonsowman> who else has one?
[19:03] <jonsowman> anyone else finding it difficult to get it to lock?
[19:03] <timbobel> yeah m1x10 had problems, little less than i
[19:03] <timbobel> and juxta had got a broken one that never ever had lock
[19:04] <jonsowman> hmm
[19:04] <jonsowman> not a great track record
[19:04] <jonsowman> i'm still a fan of the Lassen iQ
[19:04] <timbobel> could be the battery though
[19:04] <timbobel> but when i connect a led
[19:04] <timbobel> it lights up fiercely
[19:06] <fsphil> it works without the battery, just takes longer to lock
[19:06] <timbobel> how long
[19:06] <fsphil> I'm going to solder up my fsa03 tonight, after seeing all the problems here :)
[19:06] <fsphil> I'll tell you shortly -- I've no battery at all
[19:06] <timbobel> k
[19:07] <timbobel> i am not expecting lock problems at clear skysight on the ballooon though..
[19:07] <timbobel> since i had lock a few times this afternoon outside
[19:07] <fsphil> it should always lock outside
[19:07] <fsphil> my old gps would take up to 10 minutes though
[19:07] <jonsowman> timbobel: do you have any telemetry strings from when it had lock?
[19:10] <timbobel> oh yes
[19:10] <timbobel> got it smsed (since my SD's are all not working somehow)
[19:10] <timbobel> oh god no i dont
[19:10] <timbobel> i only have gpgga sentences smsed to me haha
[19:11] <timbobel> haha i immediatelly have lock
[19:11] <timbobel> with my other module!
[19:11] <timbobel> let us turn on the fldigi
[19:12] <timbobel> whooooooh working it's what it is!
[19:12] <timbobel> $$TBL,5,20:12:05,52.0104,4.3598,-47,-41,4*44
[19:12] <timbobel> falcom isnt used this time though
[19:12] <jonsowman> timbobel: get it uploading :)
[19:13] <timbobel> on it sarge
[19:13] <jonsowman> wait hang on that telemetry is different
[19:13] <jonsowman> oh no
[19:13] <jonsowman> ignore me
[19:13] <jonsowman> being stupid :)
[19:13] <timbobel> nah its not
[19:13] <jonsowman> timbobel: http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[19:14] <jonsowman> :)
[19:14] <timbobel> jonsow
[19:14] <timbobel> can you set up the exact same thing
[19:14] <timbobel> only with tbb
[19:15] <timbobel> im going to send two lines consecutively
[19:15] <timbobel> first tbl, then tbb
[19:15] <jonsowman> so you want both payloads available?
[19:15] <timbobel> please?
[19:15] <jonsowman> that's fine
[19:15] <jonsowman> hang on
[19:15] <timbobel> ah great
[19:15] <timbobel> could be a nice experiment
[19:15] <jonsowman> done
[19:16] <timbobel> going for that test
[19:16] <timbobel> btw, that lock was staggeringly accurate
[19:16] <jonsowman> :)
[19:16] <timbobel> im going to have it turn off above 23km, and turn on again below it
[19:16] <jonsowman> nah just leave it running
[19:17] <timbobel> really? what if it crashse
[19:17] <timbobel> crashes
[19:17] <jonsowman> oh I see what you mean
[19:17] <jonsowman> what GPS is it?
[19:17] <timbobel> vinotech(tyco) sirfIII
[19:17] <jonsowman> ah
[19:17] <jonsowman> yes, maybe better turn it off/on
[19:17] <timbobel> yep ;)
[19:20] <timbobel> hehe can you get rid of the three other things that were once being tracked?
[19:20] <jonsowman> i can, but i won't yet
[19:20] <jonsowman> better check the owners of that data don't mind
[19:38] <timbobel> right
[19:38] <timbobel> GPS module switching configured
[19:38] <timbobel> lets see what fldigi thinks about it
[19:39] <timbobel> im a happy camper
[19:40] <jonsowman> :D
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[19:45] <timbobel> good my canon 720 can film for 2 hours consequtively while having 100% batt..
[19:49] <timbobel> so if it loses lock, what shall i do, keep repeating last one?
[19:51] <Randomskk> yea
[19:51] <Randomskk> in case you missed the last few radio packets
[19:51] <Randomskk> indicate that it has no lock though
[19:56] <DanielRichman> we used a "gps age" variable
[19:56] <DanielRichman> and sent it over the radio to tell how old the lock that was being displayed was in seconds
[19:58] <jonsowman> anyone involved with GPSL around?
[19:59] <jonsowman> want to know if that old spacenear data can be wiped
[19:59] <Randomskk> why do we even wipe this stuff
[19:59] <Randomskk> why don't we have an awesome website that stores it against the users so it can be viewed at any time
[20:00] <jonsowman> a good question
[20:01] <DanielRichman> "why don't we have an awesome website"
[20:01] <DanielRichman> now that is a good question
[20:01] <DanielRichman> well we have an awesome wiki but more awesome could be added
[20:02] <Randomskk> the website could be so much better and there are so many plans for all this
[20:02] <Randomskk> ed has some epic plans for the DL network
[20:02] <Randomskk> alexi has some excellent plans for the tracker website
[20:04] <DanielRichman> maybe the first thing to do would be to get a UKHAS vps, give those that do web development access and encourage people to put stuff on there & collaborate rather than do it on separate servers?
[20:05] <DanielRichman> everyone who does web development here is a competent linux admin too so they should all know what they're doing
[20:05] <Randomskk> there is/isn't/kindof
[20:05] <DanielRichman> :o?
[20:05] <Randomskk> lots of us have varied access to robharrison, spacenear.us, others
[20:05] <Randomskk> alexi hosts spacenear
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[20:06] <DanielRichman> ukhas.org.uk is hosted in some obscure corner too
[20:06] <Randomskk> yea
[20:06] <DanielRichman> by an old regular of this channel iirc (?)
[20:06] <Randomskk> it's all a bit crazy
[20:06] <DanielRichman> well that's why I suggest some sort of consolidation
[20:06] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: agreed
[20:06] <DanielRichman> while I also encourage consolidation of the code and making it all integrate, the first step might be what I've suggested
[20:07] <DanielRichman> I guess there might also be some reluctance to start messing with someone else's server
[20:07] <DanielRichman> and they themselves might want to reoorganise upgrade and change it as per their needs as well
[20:09] <Randomskk> I have a spare VPS as it were
[20:09] <Randomskk> otoh I've contributed almost nothing at all generally speaking and haven't actually launched my own payload >.>
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[20:10] <jonsowman> it doesn't really matter whose it is
[20:10] <jonsowman> but it needs to run a lot of things and everyone needs access
[20:10] <Randomskk> cleric is a 512 linode
[20:10] <DanielRichman> it'd be more "official" if it rdns'd to ukhas.org
[20:10] <DanielRichman> *.uk
[20:10] <Randomskk> ben fisherman owns that?
[20:10] <Randomskk> maybe?
[20:10] <jonsowman> yeh
[20:10] <jonsowman> it's a dedi
[20:11] <Randomskk> just for ukhas though?
[20:11] <DanielRichman> maybe when jcoxon returns later we can see what he thinks about the idea
[20:11] <jonsowman> had a talk with him about it the other day
[20:11] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: i don't know
[20:11] <jonsowman> oops
[20:11] <jonsowman> * Randomskk
[20:11] <DanielRichman> rjh is on holiday?
[20:11] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: I think it does some other things
[20:11] <jonsowman> i believe so
[20:11] <jonsowman> france
[20:11] <jonsowman> Randomskk: ben is planning a migration to linode
[20:12] <jonsowman> he wishes to move away from a dedi
[20:12] <DanielRichman> does he not mind that he's still hosting ukhas.org.uk?
[20:13] <DanielRichman> it might be worth putting the box on it's own linode/whatever account
[20:13] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: agreed
[20:13] <jonsowman> it should be UKHAS and UKHAS only
[20:13] <jonsowman> and don't immediately give everyone access
[20:13] <DanielRichman> perhaps I should email the list >.>
[20:13] <jonsowman> be sure people aren't going to break stuff
[20:14] <Randomskk> someone needs to pay for it though
[20:14] <DanielRichman> well with a combination of vhosts and user-groups you can achieve a good balance and various tiers of access; however those that do the bulk of the web development should all have sudo or root access
[20:14] <jonsowman> Randomskk: we could all chip in
[20:14] <jonsowman> i'd be fine paying a few $ a month contribution
[20:16] <DanielRichman> mmm ukhas as an organisation has been quite informal so far with regards to membership etc (and it's good that way) but it's a bit of a pain if UKHAS as an organisation can't actually... do anything
[20:16] <jonsowman> yea true
[20:17] <Randomskk> is there anything for it to do, otoh?
[20:18] Action: Randomskk wonders if he is a UKHAS member
[20:18] <jonsowman> yea you are
[20:18] <Randomskk> you say that
[20:18] <Randomskk> http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:members
[20:19] <jonsowman> that is easily fixed :P
[20:20] <timbobel> im going for some food
[20:20] <timbobel> you can (hopefully) track me on the tracker..
[20:23] <DanielRichman> if I remember I'll mention this to jcoxon later; failing that I'll email the list sometime tomorrow
[20:23] <jonsowman> sounds good
[20:25] <Upu> anyone got a few mins for some questions about the radio ?
[20:27] <Upu> I'll ask and see if anyone can assist. I understand the space and marks are done by supplying voltages to the TXD pin on the NTX2
[20:27] <fsphil> yup
[20:28] <Upu> I think the question is do you use the PWM outputs on the AVR
[20:28] <Randomskk> you can
[20:29] <Randomskk> it has been done
[20:29] <Randomskk> others use two pins and a potential divider
[20:29] <jonsowman> ferret used pwm
[20:29] <Upu> or do you just put a 5V output and use a potential divider to bring it down to the correct voltages ?
[20:29] <fsphil> man the fsa03 is tricky to solder
[20:30] <Upu> just looking at Alien and seems to use a voltage divider and analogWrite
[20:31] <Upu> but puts 2.35V / 2.15V into the divider is that right ?
[20:33] <DanielRichman> ALIEN? no analoguewrite used there
[20:33] <DanielRichman> no smelly arduino libraries. Without some capacitors I doubt that PWM would work
[20:33] <Upu> analogWrite(pin_no, highval); ?
[20:33] <DanielRichman> that's not my code >.>
[20:33] <Upu> sorry that's ferret :)
[20:34] <Upu> 1 sec
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[20:35] <Randomskk> ferret is an ugly hack
[20:41] <Upu> so on Alien
[20:41] <Upu> were you using 1.35V for a space and 1.65V for a mark ?
[20:41] <DanielRichman> more like 0.9 and 1.2 I think
[20:42] <DanielRichman> Can't remember exactly. I think timbobel had difficulty replicating our design - it might have been a fluke or have a mistake in it
[20:42] <DanielRichman> you want to talk to him though since he's the most recent person to do a 5V rtty design
[20:42] <Upu> Just trying to understand it :)
[20:42] <Upu> oh you were running 3.3v
[20:42] <Upu> got you
[20:42] <Upu> ah yes
[20:43] <Upu> 1.1 / 0.9
[20:46] <DanielRichman> no ALIEN1 was a 5V system
[20:47] <Upu> and the http://alienproject.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/radiometrix-circuit-diagram.png has the right value resistors on the voltage divider ?
[20:48] <DanielRichman> give me a second
[20:48] <Upu> unless my maths is wrong that gives a space of 1.35V if the R-space input is 5V?
[20:48] <DanielRichman> http://www.falstad.com/circuit/ <-- this is win. I'm going to test it in this program
[20:50] <timbobel> daniel: why do you need to know how long since the last lock, if the time stays the same???
[20:51] <fsphil> woo, the fsa03 survived my soldering :)
[20:51] <jonsowman> fsphil: excellent
[20:52] <fsphil> no lock of course :)
[20:52] <jonsowman> heh
[20:52] <jonsowman> fingers crossed on that one
[20:52] <fsphil> well it's on my desk, well away from the window. I'll try moving it
[20:53] <DanielRichman> timbobel: good point :P It can't hurt
[20:53] <Upu> 1.35V according that nice little program Daniel
[20:55] <DanielRichman> Upu: yes in my simulation it toggles between 1.3 and 0.9
[20:55] <DanielRichman> no; 1.3 and 1
[20:55] <Upu> yep
[20:55] <DanielRichman> I think that is correct
[20:55] <DanielRichman> though I am not 100% sure. The schematic on that webpage is the one from which the board was built and populated
[20:56] <Upu> ok thats ok I'm not copying you just trying to understand what I'm planning will work
[20:56] <DanielRichman> ah cool
[20:56] <Upu> I was going to use 1 and 1.2V I think
[20:56] <DanielRichman> that applet is great though. A while ago I mocked up an easier way to do rtty on 5v using that program
[20:56] <DanielRichman> using one pin
[20:56] <Randomskk> so if we did want a new tracker
[20:56] <Randomskk> python? ruby? php?
[20:56] <DanielRichman> and e12; let me go find it
[20:57] <Randomskk> p.s. if it's php I will hate you all
[20:57] <DanielRichman> I'll agree there; php is nasty
[20:57] Action: Randomskk is now a full time php developer, for the next few weeks anyway
[20:57] <DanielRichman> *however* php is the easiest and everyone here does php :(
[20:57] <Randomskk> it is not
[20:57] <Randomskk> I actually totally disagree
[20:57] <DanielRichman> ok maybe it isn't easy
[20:57] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Preparing for Saturday's launch. Thanks to the NSTAR folks, I'll be helping teachers in summer school with their BalloonSats. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/19851118444]
[20:57] <Randomskk> I genuinely think python is much easier
[20:57] <DanielRichman> however almost everyone here that does web-dev knows php
[20:57] <Randomskk> PHP is a total pain in the arse to do anything half complicated with
[20:58] <Randomskk> as I'm finding the hard way
[20:58] <Randomskk> it doesn't do any of the good stuff
[20:58] <Randomskk> even with a decent framework
[20:58] <Randomskk> personally I would push for either python with django or ruby with rails for a web app
[20:58] <Randomskk> we're at least all happy with git
[20:58] <Randomskk> I'm happy setting up hosting of either of those two, as well
[20:59] <DanielRichman> I think django is nice though am yet to use it for a large project
[20:59] <DanielRichman> I've never tried rails
[20:59] <Randomskk> django is nice
[20:59] <Randomskk> its admin interface is also excellent
[20:59] <Randomskk> and python is nice
[20:59] <fsphil> hmm... I've got no luck, but it's returning the exact time to the second
[20:59] <Randomskk> however rails, especially 3, is also very nice
[20:59] <fsphil> luck=lock
[21:00] <Randomskk> as a community we have much, much less experience with rails though
[21:00] <jonsowman> fsphil: literally
[21:00] <Randomskk> while I think most of us know at least some amount of python
[21:00] <fsphil> haha
[21:00] <LazyLeopard> python, then...
[21:00] <Randomskk> django is great for content apps but I'm still not totally sure of its utility for non content
[21:00] <Randomskk> however it is far and away the best python framework for a largeish app
[21:00] <Randomskk> pylons is messy, cherrypy is only really suitable for small apps
[21:01] <jonsowman> learn python: also on my after-Ricardo todo list
[21:01] <Randomskk> zope is also annoying
[21:01] <jonsowman> and i actually will do it
[21:01] <Randomskk> so I'd say django if python
[21:01] <Randomskk> rails could be fun
[21:01] <Randomskk> it is a very magic language
[21:01] <Randomskk> and means we get things like cuke and rspec
[21:02] <fsphil> we get signal!
[21:02] <Randomskk> rails 3 is on release candidate
[21:02] <DanielRichman> I almsost thought you said "means we get things like cake" :(
[21:02] <Randomskk> http://cukes.info/
[21:03] <jonsowman> cake would make it for me
[21:03] <jonsowman> i must admit
[21:03] <fsphil> mmm
[21:03] <Randomskk> well there is always http://cakephp.org/
[21:03] <Randomskk> but personally I find symfony to be better as PHP frameworks go
[21:03] <jonsowman> no python cake? :(
[21:03] <Randomskk> or maybe I don't, it's been a while
[21:03] <Randomskk> no python cake
[21:03] <Randomskk> then again cuke is really fantastic
[21:03] <Randomskk> behaviour driven development is a lot of fun
[21:04] <Randomskk> also worth doing: user stories, via something like pivotal
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[21:04] <Randomskk> http://www.pivotaltracker.com/
[21:04] <jonsowman> you and all this agile stuff
[21:04] <Randomskk> :P
[21:04] <jonsowman> lol
[21:04] Action: Randomskk has seen the way
[21:05] <jonsowman> haha
[21:05] <jonsowman> :D
[21:05] <DanielRichman> :o
[21:05] <Randomskk> it really makes a massive difference
[21:05] <Randomskk> you get well written, well tested, well designed, well specified code
[21:05] <Randomskk> for marginal extra effort
[21:05] <Randomskk> it's the same amount of typing, after all
[21:06] <fsphil> hmm... according to the gps, I'm going upwards at about 1m/s
[21:06] <jonsowman> fsphil: well grab onto something, quick
[21:06] <Randomskk> gps altitude is least accurate, especially with poor signal quality or low satellite count
[21:06] <Randomskk> you're probably in freefall
[21:06] <Randomskk> :P
[21:06] <fsphil> likely lol
[21:06] <fsphil> still rising ...
[21:07] <fsphil> wait, I'm floating now :P
[21:07] <jonsowman> cool
[21:07] <Randomskk> so, hmm
[21:07] <Randomskk> I have lots of things I could do
[21:07] <Randomskk> bloody day job etc
[21:07] <Randomskk> might just do the minimum amount of time to get industrial exp, but at the same time... pay
[21:07] <Randomskk> I haven't and may not get paid for the first three weeks anyway D:
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> I'm quite surprised that the n900 GPS alt seems to be ~ the same as other directions
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> at ~5m RMS or so
[21:09] <fsphil> not bad
[21:09] <fsphil> I'm up to 121m now
[21:09] <fsphil> from 78
[21:10] <fsphil> ah, going down .. topped out at 124
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> that's optimal though - 90% clear sky, static
[21:11] <fsphil> yea, this has only half the sky
[21:11] <Randomskk> is static optimal?
[21:11] <timbobel> did i say already that i hate the Falcom?
[21:11] <jonsowman> timbobel: you may have mentioned it :P
[21:12] <Randomskk> I thought this thing was meant to be super amazing
[21:12] <fsphil> so far so good here, although I haven't tried to put it in aviation mode yet
[21:13] <timbobel> super overrated it's what that is. a few hours ago i took out an oldy module that's been lieing here still for a month. hook it up: INSTANT LOCK (inside).
[21:13] <timbobel> that could be the problem.. let me check that
[21:14] <timbobel> now switched back from aviation to normal
[21:14] <fsphil> at the moment I haven't tx'ed anything to it .. it's all defaults, 38400 baud. I'm capturing each string until it finds a GPGGA one and then transmits that over rtty
[21:15] <fsphil> does the altitude get more accurate with time? it seems to be settling down
[21:15] <jonsowman> yep
[21:15] <jonsowman> you'll probably find the number of sats is increasing
[21:15] <fsphil> then I'm higher up than I thought
[21:16] <Randomskk> check cdof
[21:16] <fsphil> yea true, I don't seem to have the number of sats on the line
[21:16] <Randomskk> vdof*
[21:16] <jonsowman> you need 4 for any chance of a vdop?
[21:16] <fsphil> ah, 10 sats
[21:16] <jonsowman> then 6 gets you a much better one
[21:17] <Randomskk> well
[21:18] <Randomskk> the more the better certainly
[21:18] <jonsowman> yes
[21:26] <timbobel> on the FSA if i measure between : GND & +(of battery), i get ~1Volt, is that correct?
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[21:29] <fsphil> sound about right, those little batteries are about 1.2v I believe
[21:30] <timbobel> nono
[21:30] <timbobel> its a 3v battery for sure
[21:30] <timbobel> falcom says so, and i got one delivered with the breakout
[21:30] <timbobel> and the battery gives 3v...
[21:30] <DanielRichman> and this battery is connected to the falcom?
[21:30] <timbobel> but when i measure between + of battery and the gnd, i measure 1v...
[21:30] <DanielRichman> and as a result you only measure 1?
[21:30] <timbobel> Yes sir
[21:30] <fsphil> ooh
[21:31] <DanielRichman> might be flat.
[21:31] <DanielRichman> Guess you could take it out and put a 100R load on it annd measure
[21:31] <timbobel> i am
[21:31] <timbobel> i think might be the meter
[21:31] <timbobel> though still, weird, since its just 3v when i measure directly
[21:32] <fsphil> does the fsa3 work any better without the battery?
[21:32] <DanielRichman> and what happens if you continuity test between the vbatt pin and the battery socket?
[21:32] <DanielRichman> this is th esawdust breakout, right? they might have some stuff on there
[21:33] <DanielRichman> VBATT 1.4 V  4.8 VDC
[21:33] <DanielRichman> (falcom docs)
[21:36] <timbobel> thanks dan
[21:37] <timbobel> okay im going to let it settle for a night
[21:37] <timbobel> now going to figure out the sd crap :'(
[21:38] <DanielRichman> sd card: there is an arduino library to do that
[21:38] <DanielRichman> I have never used it but it's meant to be good
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[21:42] <fsphil> well, gps works well through polystyrene
[21:43] <fsphil> is there an non-arduino sd library?
[21:43] <fsphil> ah, found one
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[21:58] <m1x10> hi
[22:09] <fsphil> hi hi m1x10
[22:12] <timbobel> m1x10, i havent had a lock since 12 hours
[22:12] <timbobel> hooked up another gps, got lock within the second
[22:13] <m1x10> too bad timbobel
[22:13] <m1x10> i feel really angry with that
[22:13] <Wild-Wing> it could be faulty
[22:13] <m1x10> yes
[22:13] <m1x10> i told you
[22:13] <m1x10> mail them
[22:13] <jonsowman> fsphil: hows the falcom?
[22:14] <fsphil> jonsowman, working perfectly so far
[22:14] <m1x10> we cant have the same thing and your is completely failed and mine working smoothly
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[22:15] <fsphil> it does seem to be causing the frequency to bounce around a bit, possibly using more current than the regulator is comfortable with
[22:15] <fsphil> it isn't able to get a lock away from the window, but it does manage to get the time at least
[22:16] <Randomskk> time might just be the onboard rtc
[22:16] <fsphil> I've no battery
[22:19] <fsphil> and it takes a few minutes before it to start returning the time, after a cold start
[22:19] <fsphil> -to
[22:19] <Randomskk> fair enough
[22:20] <fsphil> now, gotta bash it into a telemetry line
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[22:40] <Wild-Wing> oh dang no bashing lol
[22:40] <Wild-Wing> dont bash the poor thing lol
[22:41] <fsphil> brute force and sprintf :)
[22:42] <Wild-Wing> lol
[22:44] <timbobel> SD CARD WORKIIIIIIIIInG
[22:44] <timbobel> WHO CHEERS WITH ME
[22:44] Action: timbobel cheers
[22:45] <fsphil> |o/
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[22:45] <Wild-Wing> lol
[22:45] <fsphil> that was quick
[22:45] <fsphil> no problems?
[22:46] <timbobel> no problems, just 3 hours of debugging
[22:46] <timbobel> more routine than problem, really.
[22:46] <fsphil> excellent
[22:47] <timbobel> a problem would be smoke out of the arduino. That i already had.
[22:47] <fsphil> eep
[22:47] <timbobel> still smells funny
[22:47] <jonsowman> :o
[22:47] <DanielRichman> you got actual smoke out of it?
[22:47] <jonsowman> you let the magic smoke out?
[22:47] <Randomskk> regulator or the atmega?
[22:48] <m1x10> :P
[22:48] <DanielRichman> mine just gets hot :(
[22:48] <Randomskk> sometimes these things have a second supply of magic smoke
[22:48] <jonsowman> phew
[22:48] <Randomskk> I haven't smoked very many chips in my life though
[22:48] <fsphil> none so far here
[22:48] <Randomskk> that bank of MOSFETs for my quadcopter that one time being an exception
[22:48] <Randomskk> nine at once
[22:48] <fsphil> maybe I'm not trying hard enough?
[22:48] <DanielRichman> haha
[22:48] <DanielRichman> yeah fsphil, I mean, honestly :X
[22:48] <Randomskk> shorted through 12V or so with a supply capable of 60A
[22:48] <DanielRichman> bewm
[22:48] <fsphil> bang
[22:49] <fsphil> big boom
[22:49] <Randomskk> they smelt awful
[22:49] <Randomskk> lotsa smoka
[22:49] <Randomskk> smoke*
[22:50] <timbobel> regulator i think, not sure, i was in panic. somewhere near the powerinlet
[22:51] <timbobel> i was playing with some lithium batterys when something went wrong
[22:52] <Randomskk> yes
[22:52] <Randomskk> lithium batteries. <3
[22:52] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4835884844/
[22:52] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4835265027/
[22:53] <jonsowman> hehehe good times
[22:54] <jonsowman> it was /very/ salty
[22:54] <Randomskk> it was like, so salty
[22:54] <Randomskk> did you see the other couple of things I uploaded?
[22:54] <Randomskk> but seriously it was so salty
[22:54] <jonsowman> no?
[22:54] <Randomskk> remember when I spilt a tiny bit on the stairs
[22:54] <Randomskk> and it evaporated
[22:54] <jonsowman> oh yes
[22:54] <jonsowman> i do remember that
[22:54] <jonsowman> an actual salt patch :o
[22:55] <Randomskk> :o
[22:55] <jonsowman> cant believe how much salt we got into that bottle
[22:55] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4835280977/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4835331233/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4835953772/ that
[22:55] <Randomskk> and yes, we got so much in
[22:55] <Randomskk> we just kept adding more and more and more
[22:55] <Randomskk> then I put the battery in a plastic bag in a plastic bag and mummified it in insulating tape
[22:55] <Randomskk> I don't think that'l be leaching until well after I'm dead
[22:56] <jonsowman> that firefly is awesome
[22:56] <jonsowman> :D
[22:56] <Randomskk> works relatively well though annoyingly when on a 3v power supply i.e. its lithium coin cell its capacitive sensing is really dodgy
[22:56] <Randomskk> a 5v supply and it works flawlessly
[22:56] <timbobel> woooow geez that looks too cool
[22:56] <timbobel> geeez
[22:57] <Randomskk> so I added that wire loop near the top which is connected to ground, touching that and the chasis at the same time and it always works
[22:57] <timbobel> crystals!
[22:57] <Randomskk> fade pattern is quite nice too, and it uses that 255-state prng I made
[22:57] <Randomskk> to determine how many flashes and how long each is and how long between each
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[22:57] <Laurenceb> hi
[22:57] <Randomskk> then goes into deep sleep mode for 10s until the watchdog wakes it up, <0.1µA
[22:57] <Randomskk> yo Laurenceb
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[23:01] <DanielRichman> :o
[23:01] <DanielRichman> that's cool
[23:01] <Randomskk> the crystals or the firefly? >_>
[23:02] <DanielRichman> both ?
[23:02] <Randomskk> :D
[23:02] <Randomskk> the crystals are really surprisingly large and well formed
[23:02] <DanielRichman> also: you have the full asm instruction set for (avrs?) printed out?
[23:02] <Randomskk> the firefly is really unsurprisingly badly formed
[23:02] <Randomskk> it's only like, two pages
[23:02] <Randomskk> and yes
[23:02] <Randomskk> ATtiny13's instruction set in this case
[23:02] <DanielRichman> ahh you did it in asm :P?
[23:02] <Randomskk> you only get 1K ram
[23:03] <Randomskk> however no, in the end I managed to do the entire thing in C
[23:03] <DanielRichman> but 1k ram is plenty
[23:03] <DanielRichman> mmm
[23:03] <Randomskk> I mean 1K flash
[23:03] <DanielRichman> ahh maybe not
[23:03] <Laurenceb> heh
[23:03] <DanielRichman> well that's not *too* bad
[23:03] <Laurenceb> !K ram is k, 1K flash not so much
[23:03] <Laurenceb> *1K
[23:03] <Randomskk> eh
[23:03] <Randomskk> it was like, 800 bytes
[23:04] <Randomskk> about 500 of which was idle loops
[23:04] <Randomskk> C is really shit at making good idle loops in asm
[23:04] <Randomskk> http://pastie.org/1066251
[23:04] <DanielRichman> hrrm alien1 was 6K in total (ISR-based temp gps sms sdcard rtty +cruft)
[23:05] <DanielRichman> I think the Arduino standard library is about that much >.>
[23:05] <Randomskk> that's really quite good
[23:05] <Laurenceb> mini rogallo was 15.9KB
[23:05] <Laurenceb> just fit
[23:05] <DanielRichman> close call
[23:05] <Laurenceb> enterestingly it was 17 with the ubuntu repo avrgcc
[23:06] <DanielRichman> http://pastie.org/1066256 all C & no progmem
[23:06] <Randomskk> good stuff
[23:07] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: I trust all that stuff in your C got inlined, etc?
[23:07] <Randomskk> by and large yea
[23:07] <Randomskk> I think I had -Os on
[23:08] <Randomskk> the code progression was totally linear really
[23:08] <fsphil> I'm at 5k so far with hadie2, though I've yet to add the SD card bits
[23:08] <DanielRichman> hmm so it turns on, waits until it's touched, flashes, then goes to sleep & waited until the watchdog waits it back up?
[23:08] <Randomskk> with the exception of rand() everything else was excecuted only once
[23:08] <Randomskk> the watchdog doesn't really wake it up
[23:08] <Randomskk> it resets it
[23:08] <Randomskk> and not quite
[23:09] <Randomskk> it turns on, initialises its subsystems, checks to see if it is being touched, if it isn't it turns on the watchdog and goes straight to sleep, if it is it flashes a bit and then does that
[23:09] <Randomskk> on turnon it also clears the watchdog from before
[23:09] <Randomskk> it doesn't really wake up or get an interrupt, it just resets
[23:09] <DanielRichman> oh sorry; misred that while () as something that isn't a feature of any C language >.>
[23:09] <DanielRichman> I see
[23:10] <DanielRichman> so essentially the watchdog timer resets it so often; with the result that it periodically checks if it's being touched; then flashes or sleeps
[23:10] <DanielRichman> how much currant did it consume when not being touched?
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[23:11] <Randomskk> less than 0.1µA according to datasheet
[23:11] <Randomskk> I can't verify
[23:12] <Randomskk> all peripherals are off except the watchdog
[23:12] <Randomskk> the core and clock and all io and everything is off
[23:12] <Randomskk> datasheet says less than 0.1µA
[23:12] <DanielRichman> can it respond to pin change interrupts in that state?
[23:12] <Randomskk> can't remember, maybe
[23:13] <DanielRichman> not really apt. because you have to ground release and check; rather than just wait
[23:13] <DanielRichman> but curious
[23:13] <Randomskk> yea, touching doesn't trigger a pin change
[23:13] <Randomskk> could have made it a button but where's the fun in that
[23:14] <Randomskk> anyway it's out of my hands now
[23:14] <DanielRichman> idd
[23:14] <DanielRichman> what!?
[23:14] <Randomskk> I didn't make it for me :P
[23:14] <DanielRichman> I suspected
[23:16] <Randomskk> I have 25 git repos :o
[23:16] <fsphil> megagit
[23:16] <Randomskk> I mean github.
[23:16] <Randomskk> I have loads of git repos
[23:16] <DanielRichman> this is disturbing: http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4477678060/in/photostream/
[23:16] <Randomskk> haha yes
[23:16] <Randomskk> long exposure sadly
[23:17] <fsphil> nice
[23:17] <Randomskk> I want to get something to control it quickly enough to do that
[23:17] <fsphil> I did something similar once, http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/2982037403/
[23:18] <fsphil> didn't quite finish it in time
[23:19] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/2361910385/
[23:19] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/sets/72157605909536041 even
[23:20] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/2361895217 is my favourite I think
[23:20] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/2361787099 is cool too, and the one after it
[23:21] <fsphil> very nice
[23:22] <timbobel> http://hollandshoogte.wordpress.com/ check out the lovely picture in which you can see what i was kinda doing all day
[23:22] <fsphil> hmm. I haz lasers now
[23:24] <Randomskk> timbobel: looks like your girlfriend was enjoying testing
[23:24] <fsphil> you know, if I just renamed my payload to GPGGA I'd be all done with this :)
[23:24] <fsphil> any sign of damage on the antenna timbobel?
[23:25] <Randomskk> fsphil: it has been discussed, but you'd need to insert a $
[23:25] <Randomskk> to be honest it seems to me there's a huge amount people could to do make tracking easier
[23:25] <Randomskk> prefix with $$$$$$$ or something to help lock on
[23:25] <Randomskk> UUUUUUUUUUUUU$$ would be even better
[23:25] <fsphil> I use UUUU for the image packets
[23:26] <Randomskk> keep on transmitting data, don't send a packet then wait ages
[23:26] <Randomskk> use 300 baud if not dominoex
[23:26] <Randomskk> keep packets short
[23:26] <fsphil> also continuous transmittion -- transmits 0x00 on idle
[23:26] <Randomskk> we need a better packeting system
[23:26] <Randomskk> i.e. break them up
[23:26] <Randomskk> position, sensors, position, sensors
[23:26] <Randomskk> otherwise long telem gets corrupted and is all lost
[23:26] <fsphil> my packets are too big, though the error correction helps
[23:26] <Randomskk> fec is nice
[23:27] <fsphil> yep
[23:27] <Randomskk> your jpg thing is excellent
[23:27] <fsphil> it will be when it works better :)
[23:29] <fsphil> i've learned more about jpegs than I ever wanted to know this week
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[23:30] <DanielRichman> oh have you managed to make it tolerant of errors? ie. you lose the block not the whole image?
[23:31] <Randomskk> wow, my internet is being fantastically slow right now. odd.
[23:31] <Randomskk> yet IRC is fine
[23:32] <fsphil> I've got a plan, not sure if it will work in practice
[23:32] <timbobel> how do i use my eurocard pcb; how to solder stuff
[23:32] <timbobel> i get it it has pins
[23:32] <DanielRichman> if you manage it, it will be awesome
[23:32] <timbobel> what is the best way to connect
[23:32] <fsphil> I'll be well chuffed if it works! :)
[23:33] <fsphil> some information on the packet format here, and a few scribbles: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ssdv
[23:34] <DanielRichman> timbobel: do you mean; you're designing a PCB in eagle + want help? or you actually have a physical pcb sitting on your desk
[23:35] <timbobel> yes
[23:35] <timbobel> a pcb with gazillions of holes
[23:35] <timbobel> like a mesh
[23:35] <DanielRichman> eh yes to which bit
[23:36] <timbobel> yeah but all holes are unconnected
[23:36] <timbobel> http://nl.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?CMP=i-ddd7-00001003&sku=1172146
[23:37] <DanielRichman> is it stripboard?
[23:38] <fsphil> it isn't, I've seen it before but I can't remember the name
[23:38] <fsphil> you have to make the connections with wires
[23:38] <DanielRichman> hmm
[23:38] <fsphil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfboard
[23:38] <timbobel> you think?
[23:39] <timbobel> o god wire wrap
[23:39] <fsphil> hehe
[23:39] <fsphil> if you have the time, I'd try to get some stripboard
[23:39] <DanielRichman> so you just solder all the stuff in and wire it up on the bottom http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdmorais/2363434432/
[23:40] <fsphil> holy crap
[23:40] <timbobel> nice YV
[23:40] <timbobel> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Motorolagoldenviewchassis.jpg
[23:40] <timbobel> tv
[23:40] <timbobel> daniel: doesnt sound very reliable though
[23:41] <Randomskk> wirewrap is incredibly reliable
[23:41] <Randomskk> more so than soldering usually
[23:41] <Randomskk> lot of NASA projects used wirewrap exclusively
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[23:43] <timbobel> yeah
[23:43] <timbobel> hmm
[23:48] <m1x10> timbobel nice blog
[23:49] <m1x10> tommorow i will take care of it
[23:49] <m1x10> :)
[00:00] --- Fri Jul 30 2010