highaltitude.log.20100728

[00:00] <DanielRichman> I guess that made sense... to someone... once.
[00:01] <Randomskk> ...
[00:03] <DanielRichman> given the state of the PHP language adding more stuff created by ZEND on top of that just seems like asking for more trouble
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[00:04] <Randomskk> tell me about it
[00:04] <Randomskk> zend server isn't too bad I guess
[00:04] <Randomskk> it's just apache+php and their own little website thing to view log files, plus the zend debugger
[00:04] <Randomskk> which could be good
[00:04] <DanielRichman> heh. Debugging php = adding lots of print_r and var_dump to your code
[00:06] <DanielRichman> one of the best bits of zend is the accelerator (providing it works, does it?)
[00:06] <Randomskk> tbh I just print_r, why would you var_dump
[00:06] <Randomskk> I never used that before
[00:06] <Randomskk> maybe it does
[00:06] <Randomskk> I haven't touched php in years
[00:06] <Randomskk> I spend weeks making a mammoth 12kloc php web app without a framework
[00:06] <Randomskk> it worked and was pretty friggin awesome
[00:07] <Randomskk> properly architectured too, had a messaging system and loads of components and was all OOy
[00:07] <Randomskk> anyway I got bored and didn't finish it and moved on to proper languages
[00:07] <DanielRichman> print_r for arrays; iirc var_dump deals with bools nicely
[00:07] <Randomskk> I see
[00:08] <DanielRichman> I've never tried OO PHP
[00:08] <DanielRichman> but: 12kl php project? that just sounds unhealthy! but yeah, it probably was awesome :P
[00:08] <DanielRichman> what did it do?
[00:09] <Randomskk> it was a vendor management system for second life
[00:09] <Randomskk> you got an ingame server that held your items, ingame vendors of various sizes and capabilities that displayed and sold them, then had the item delivered to the user
[00:09] <Randomskk> along with some other inworld bits like registration panels, redelivery things, messaging servers
[00:10] <Randomskk> the web app let you pick items from the server, set up products with advertising material and photos and all that, manage sales, deliver updates, do gift certificates, see graphs of sales
[00:10] <DanielRichman> mammoth is indeed adequate
[00:13] <Randomskk> so that was cool
[00:14] <Randomskk> it was redundant throughout, communicated with the inworld objects through a combination of http polling, xml rpc requests and email when all else failed
[00:15] <Randomskk> but I just got disenchanted
[00:15] <Randomskk> it wasn't well enough organised to not get somewhat messy by that point
[00:16] <Randomskk> shame because I'd have probably made loads of money and all that
[00:16] <DanielRichman> 2nd life is srs bzns, isn't it? I've never paid much attention
[00:17] <Randomskk> the in game money is directly exchangable for real money, and it costs money to own land and stuff
[00:17] <Randomskk> I made some teleporters one weekend and have grossed several thousand GBP from them selling over a few years
[00:18] <Randomskk> but this system would have required more polishing on the UI, more polishing on the inworld objects, and a serious about of documentation, advertising and inworld support
[00:19] <Randomskk> around this time I was getting bored of SL and starting to do more electronics, which up to then had been very very simple stuff
[00:19] <DanielRichman> I see. Teleporters?
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[00:19] <Randomskk> uh, they moved your avatar around in-world
[00:19] <DanielRichman> o.k.
[00:19] <Randomskk> usually for store owners, that kind of thing, move customers to various parts of the store, or floors of your house, or units for rent, or whatever
[00:19] <DanielRichman> I don't understand SL atall
[00:19] <Randomskk> they were quite good and all
[00:19] <DanielRichman> I'll go read the wiki page
[00:20] <DanielRichman> what's to "making" a teleporter?
[00:20] <Randomskk> programming mostly
[00:21] <DanielRichman> oh I.C
[00:21] <Randomskk> http://www.last.fm/robots.txt tee hee
[00:21] <DanielRichman> oh very good
[00:21] <Randomskk> but yea, these days my spare time is much more electronics
[00:21] <DanielRichman> I need to watch that film again
[00:22] Action: DanielRichman wonders how Randomskk found tha-- oh reddit.
[00:22] <Randomskk> boingboing actually
[00:23] <DanielRichman> well I wondered if you found it by chance or if it was doing the circuit of "those" sites
[00:23] <DanielRichman> but fair enough :P
[00:23] <Randomskk> I've been afk since wednesday night, got back today to google reader saying "1000+ unread items"
[00:24] <DanielRichman> the entry on reddit is better since it leaves you to figure it out for yourself more than BB does
[00:25] Action: Randomskk doesn't have reddit on his rss
[00:26] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4835411619/
[00:26] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4836031460/
[00:26] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4835975468/
[00:26] <Randomskk> :D
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[00:29] <DanielRichman> shouldn't you be asleep?
[00:29] <Randomskk> yea, going in a minute
[00:29] <DanielRichman> :P
[00:29] <Randomskk> driving to work in the morning and all that crap
[00:29] <DanielRichman> but those pcbs look funky
[00:29] <DanielRichman> seeed?
[00:29] <Randomskk> yea
[00:29] <Randomskk> went for green since I knew there'd be an r2
[00:29] <Randomskk> will probably get r2 before deploing
[00:31] <Randomskk> deploying
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[00:32] <DanielRichman> oh awesome I've got the DVD right here
[00:32] <DanielRichman> I could watch it now
[00:33] <DanielRichman> wait.... nothing in the case -.-!?
[00:33] <Randomskk> hate it when that happens
[00:33] <DanielRichman> it's obviously the fault of younger siblings... graaaah
[00:34] <DanielRichman> hmm think I'll be going now; bye!
[00:35] <Randomskk> seeya
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[06:46] <spenguin[work]> hey http://hackaday.com/2010/07/27/200-mile-rf-transmitter-and-high-altitude-balloon
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[08:22] <m1x10> morning all
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[10:11] <fsphil> hehe: http://hackaday.com/2010/07/27/200-mile-rf-transmitter-and-high-altitude-balloon/
[10:14] <spenguin[work]> I posted first!
[10:14] <spenguin[work]> :p
[10:16] <fsphil> haha
[10:16] <russss> http://www.nycresistor.com/2010/06/26/crossing-the-pond-with-100-milliwatts/
[10:16] <russss> quite cool
[10:16] <fsphil> the nice thing about this is they seem to have build their transmitter module themselves
[10:17] <m1x10> crazy !!
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[10:19] <fsphil> russss, that's very cool
[10:19] <fsphil> I'm still amazed at the range wspr signals can be received
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[10:30] <timbobel> juxta you here?
[10:31] <timbobel> need some advice on working with the Falcom on 5volt.. i dont want to destroy it, and i remember you having some experience in that ;)
[10:31] <m1x10> heh
[10:31] <m1x10> timbobel Im at the same situation
[10:31] <m1x10> you work it with 5v arduino ?
[10:32] <juxta|console> hey timbobel
[10:32] <timbobel> yes, for using with the mega..
[10:32] <timbobel> although i do have it working with a 3v3 pro mini
[10:33] <timbobel> great piece of code, juxta, respect.
[10:33] <juxta|console> use a 3.3v regulator to power it, and a potential divider to bring the TX line from the arduino -> FSA03 down to correct voltages
[10:33] <timbobel> no the arduino can give 3v3 power, it has a conn for that
[10:33] <timbobel> thats what i thought
[10:33] <m1x10> for a solution I ordered http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8745
[10:33] <timbobel> i thought like, 10K and 20K..?
[10:33] <m1x10> after lots of people at sparkfun
[10:33] <juxta|console> yeah, but not much - it gets it from the FTDI serial chip, max is i think 30 or 50mA
[10:33] <juxta|console> you'll want more than that
[10:34] <juxta|console> re the code - most of my code tends to be quite sloopy and bad, haha :)
[10:34] <juxta|console> as long as it works though, that's the main thing ;)
[10:34] <timbobel> juxta: what doyou recommend then
[10:34] <timbobel> 1k and 2k?
[10:35] <juxta|console> 10 and 20k are ok - but an external regulator is worthwhile
[10:35] <juxta|console> as the 3v3 supply on the arduino is not the greatest
[10:35] <timbobel> why not
[10:35] <juxta|console> http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardMega
[10:35] <m1x10> juxta a logic level converter isn't a good choice?
[10:36] <timbobel> i have got plenty of fresh high grade regulators here
[10:36] <juxta|console> "DC Current for 3.3V Pin50 mA"
[10:36] <m1x10> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8745
[10:36] <timbobel> yeah logic converter is okay.. but its a little oversized
[10:36] <juxta|console> m1x10: logic level converter is fine too, but a potential divider with resistors would do the job with less effort ;)
[10:37] <m1x10> it provides vcc/rx/tx 3.3v <-> 5v
[10:37] <timbobel> 50mA, wouldnt that be enough???
[10:37] <m1x10> ok, worths just 3 euro and its tiny :)
[10:37] <timbobel> yeah it could be nice for prototyping i guess, but otherwise, potential devivder costs 20 cents
[10:38] <timbobel> and its tinier
[10:38] <timbobel> BUT, your logic converter IS cooler, ok.
[10:38] <m1x10> juxta fsa specs sais: Current consumption 40 mA appr.
[10:38] Action: tydeas slaps m1x10
[10:38] <juxta|console> timbobel: gps will probably draw less than 50mA most of the time, but when it's trying to get lock it will probably draw more than that
[10:38] <m1x10> hey tydeas
[10:39] <juxta|console> m1x10: yeah, average is likely to be lower than 50mA
[10:39] <timbobel> okay well, in that case i just take the 5v.. and convert?
[10:39] <timbobel> or take the 5v and potential devide that too
[10:39] <juxta|console> timbobel: yep, use something like an LM3940
[10:39] <m1x10> timbobel, personally I will power the fsa from arduino 3.3 pin and use LLC for tx/rx only
[10:40] <juxta|console> timbobel: don't use a ptoential divider, if you apply ohms law you'll see why you may have issues unless you use very low valued resistors
[10:40] <juxta|console> (for supply that is)
[10:41] <timbobel> what?
[10:42] <timbobel> m1x10, but what if it needs the extra juice?
[10:42] <timbobel> Whoooh, i am checking my CHDK on a canon, and im already at photo number 300, and the battery is at 83% on some lame rechargable battery. sucks though that CHDK doesnt support 8GB cards
[10:43] <m1x10> timbobel: I will just have it work for a couple of days and might use a multimeter to see if theres
[10:43] <m1x10> need for extra juice
[10:44] <m1x10> but specs talk about 40mA approximately
[10:44] <timbobel> would it be a problem for you to check in the next couple of days??
[10:44] <timbobel> my launch is ~sunday
[10:44] <m1x10> Im waiting the order
[10:44] <timbobel> ah right
[10:44] <m1x10> ordered it a week ago
[10:45] <timbobel> im off to buy a dremel i guess. i have got my first batchpcb stuff, almost all the holes too small!
[10:45] <m1x10> but I dont think it could reach my place until your launch days
[10:45] <m1x10> :)
[10:45] <timbobel> too bad
[10:45] <jonsowman_work> morning all
[10:45] <jonsowman_work> h
[10:45] <jonsowman_work> hh
[10:45] <m1x10> monring jonsowman
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[10:45] <timbobel> morning
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[10:45] <jonsowman_work> morning all
[10:46] <timbobel> hows work
[10:46] <jonsowman_work> alright :)
[10:46] <m1x10> timbobel, http://www.falcom.de/fileadmin/downloads/documentation/FSA03/FSA03_flyer_v1.0.2_web_pre.pdf
[10:46] <jonsowman_work> hows the payload going timbobel
[10:46] <juxta|console> timbobel: chdk can work with an 8gb card
[10:47] <juxta|console> rjharrison uses a 16GB card if I recall
[10:47] <m1x10> why need of 8gb? isn't too much ?
[10:47] <timbobel> fine. having trouble only with the NTX2's carrier shift
[10:47] <timbobel> 8gb for a 3 hour long video
[10:47] <m1x10> oh
[10:48] <m1x10> timbobel last time we were discussing about adding some small HD spy cams
[10:48] <m1x10> which prove to be small
[10:48] <juxta|console> timbobel: re the voltage - if you divide 5v down with a potential divider, you're not going to be able to supply much current
[10:48] <m1x10> if want the camera just for video
[10:49] <m1x10> you should check the HD spy cams
[10:49] <juxta|console> (as in only a few mA)
[10:49] <timbobel> m1x10, i have one
[10:49] <timbobel> see my post on my website
[10:49] <m1x10> give me the link
[10:49] <timbobel> http://hollandshoogte.wordpress.com/2010/06/26/1-minicamera/
[10:49] <timbobel> i think i was the one suggesting it =)
[10:50] <m1x10> heh correct
[10:50] <m1x10> but on youtube some guy was playing with another one
[10:50] <timbobel> so i'd be testing that too
[10:50] <m1x10> how much does this cost?
[10:51] <juxta|console> timbobel: did you get your NTX2 shift working, by the way?
[10:51] <m1x10> hah sooo cheap !
[10:51] <m1x10> crazy
[10:52] <timbobel> juxta:no
[10:52] <timbobel> m1x10: yes, and you can buy the exact same thing here in europe/usa, and you will pay $80>>. scammers.
[10:52] <m1x10> timbobel, you plan to try this cam in your next flight?
[10:52] <timbobel> thats why i bought it
[10:52] <m1x10> oh nice !
[10:52] <timbobel> i will attach it to the balloon, aiming down on the payload i think
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[10:53] <timbobel> that would be unique
[10:53] <m1x10> timbobel awesome
[10:53] <m1x10> I plan to put 2-3 of those in my flight
[10:53] <m1x10> recording everything !
[10:53] <juxta|console> timbobel: did the resistor diagram I sent you not work?
[10:53] <timbobel> i thought the quality was staggering
[10:53] <timbobel> juxta: havent got the resistors
[10:53] <timbobel> i was just off to the electric shop
[10:53] <timbobel> but then we started chatting
[10:53] <m1x10> I look forward to seeing the results of this cam
[10:54] <juxta|console> oh righto :)
[10:54] <timbobel> m1x10, quite staggering quality
[10:54] <timbobel> scary actually
[10:54] <m1x10> haha
[10:55] <m1x10> we will see after the recovery !
[10:55] <m1x10> im very positive of replacing chdk cams with those spy cams
[10:55] <m1x10> if video quality is ok at some level
[10:56] <jonsowman_work> I want one of the little CMOS cameras and an FPGA logging to SD
[10:56] <m1x10> using that cam on balloons have many prons
[10:56] <jonsowman_work> get around the lack of c328 issues
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[10:56] <timbobel> yeah well, IF it recorvers, i just see that sunadys wind has changed aiming more at the northsea =)
[10:56] <m1x10> :)
[10:56] <jonsowman_work> timbobel: it's too early to trust predictions
[10:57] <jonsowman_work> for a sunday launch, friday's 12z GFS model will be the first to give you something useful
[10:57] <timbobel> true, and, if it's too off, ill just drive somewhere more southern i guess
[10:57] <timbobel> what is GFS HD
[10:57] <jonsowman_work> actually the 06z model should be alright
[10:57] <jonsowman_work> timbobel: uses high definition atmospheric data, so a more accurate prediction
[10:57] <jonsowman_work> takes longer though
[10:58] <juxta|console> anybody have any recommendations on a soldering station? tossing up between a weller (~$200) and a no brand ($50)
[10:58] <jonsowman_work> the HD data has 41 levels of data through the atmosphere, whereas the non-HD has 21
[10:58] <juxta|console> my third iron died the other day! :@
[10:58] <jonsowman_work> juxta|console: will you be using it for everything?
[10:58] <juxta|console> pretty much, yeah
[10:58] <juxta|console> I dont have a reflow oven
[10:59] <jonsowman_work> for the money you'll end up spending on cheap irons - get the Weller
[10:59] <jonsowman_work> i can't remember what the CUSF one is, but it's awesome
[10:59] <timbobel> i have got a $25 weller.. works fine
[10:59] <juxta|console> http://www.howardelectronics.com/weller/WES51L.jpg
[11:00] <timbobel> ah that one i used a lot at the university
[11:00] <timbobel> its very good
[11:00] <juxta|console> yeah, I've used them too and love them, hehe
[11:00] <timbobel> @juxta: off to the shop for the resistors., m1x10, keep you posted. you have an webblog?
[11:01] <juxta|console> but if I'm spending that much it makes me contemplate getting a rework station with vaccum too
[11:01] <jonsowman_work> that's true
[11:02] <juxta|console> i got another cheapo iron today, they gave it to me for free at the shop
[11:03] <juxta|console> so it's no great rush to get the station
[11:03] <jonsowman_work> cant complain at free :)
[11:03] <juxta|console> there's a second hand weller on ebay at the moment for $20, i'll keep an eye on it
[11:03] <juxta|console> jonsowman_work: free == warranty ;p
[11:04] <jonsowman_work> true
[11:04] <juxta|console> here it is in all its glory: http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TS1554&keywords=soldering+iron&form=KEYWORD
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[11:06] <jonsowman_work_> erm, woops
[11:06] <jonsowman_work_> firefox death crash burn etc.
[11:06] <DanielRichman> wooo smd components have arrived
[11:06] <DanielRichman> (I only ordered at 6pm yesterday; atleast farnell can do something right)
[11:06] <jonsowman_work_> farnell's delivery times are astonishing
[11:07] <juxta|console> farnell get stuff to me very quickly too
[11:07] <jonsowman_work_> aw poor farnell, what have they dont
[11:07] <jonsowman_work_> *done?
[11:07] <juxta|console> very expensive though
[11:07] <DanielRichman> pssh not their fault
[11:07] <DanielRichman> I thought it was but turns out that absolutely noone has any stock of this chip
[11:08] <DanielRichman> seeing these, I am having fresh doubts about my ability to solder smd :P
[11:08] <jonsowman_work_> heh
[11:08] <jonsowman_work_> what size?
[11:08] <DanielRichman> 0603 & 44tqfp
[11:09] <DanielRichman> that's as small as it gets on this project
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[11:09] Nick change: jonsowman_work_ -> jonsowman_work
[11:10] <jonsowman_work> :)
[11:10] <jonsowman_work> if I were an op I could kick myself :)
[11:11] <DanielRichman> if you were ns registered you could ghost yourself :o
[11:13] <jonsowman_work> yes that would be the normal solution to that problem :)
[11:13] <jonsowman_work> jonsowman is ns registered
[11:13] <DanielRichman> remind me to impersonate you sometime
[11:13] <DanielRichman> hmm... ahh there it is. I've found the tqfp
[11:13] <jonsowman_work> :o noo
[11:13] <DanielRichman> how on earth am I going to solder that
[11:14] <jonsowman_work> yea finding it was the easy bit
[11:14] <fsphil> lol
[11:14] <DanielRichman> ;'(
[11:14] <fsphil> DanielRichman, I had the same reaction when I saw the atmega644p
[11:14] <DanielRichman> but you still managed to do it?
[11:14] <fsphil> not yet, only just got a hot air station
[11:14] <DanielRichman> ah.
[11:15] <fsphil> my soldering iron would have brutalised the job
[11:15] <DanielRichman> I was about to ask if you had a crazy lazerbeamshooting solder station when you did it
[11:17] <jonsowman_work> i want one of them
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[11:37] <jonsowman_work_> ¬.¬
[11:39] <DanielRichman> lolfirefox
[11:39] <jonsowman_work_> D:
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[11:41] <jonsowman_work> too slow! woop woop woop woop
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[11:42] <jonsowman_work_> D: D:
[11:42] Nick change: jonsowman_work_ -> jonsowman_work
[11:42] <jonsowman_work> :D
[11:45] <DanielRichman> anyway the plan is to lay out these components on a scale printing of the pcb to double check my footprints, then I can get it made
[11:46] <jonsowman_work> sounds good
[11:47] <DanielRichman> but now I think I'm going to lose them all if I try that :P
[11:52] <jonsowman_work> ms7821: can you explain your hostname?
[12:04] <fsphil> dare ye visit the url? :)
[12:07] <jonsowman_work> NSFW?
[12:07] <m1x10> jonsowman: why do u ask about ms7821's hostname?
[12:08] <jonsowman_work> m1x10: examine it :)
[12:08] <fsphil> hmm.. how do you explain that one?
[12:08] <jonsowman_work> but not too closely
[12:08] <m1x10> goatse.co.uk
[12:08] <m1x10> whats so bad?
[12:08] <jonsowman_work> umm
[12:08] <juxta|console> haha
[12:08] <jonsowman_work> D:
[12:08] <juxta|console> yeah, what's so bad about that jonsowman_workwork? ;p
[12:09] <jonsowman_work> oh no
[12:09] Action: jonsowman_work hides
[12:09] <m1x10> i dont get you but ok :)
[12:10] <jonsowman_work> you don't really want to know
[12:10] <jonsowman_work> don't worry
[12:10] <m1x10> hehe
[12:10] <m1x10> np
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[12:23] <ms7821> jonsowman_work: it's owned by Alex in #london-hack-space
[12:23] <ms7821> and I've been using it as a bouncer as my home internet was a bit flakey
[12:24] <jonsowman_work> haha ok
[12:30] <jonsowman_work> silly unix
[12:30] <jonsowman_work> how come writing to a file in a directory does not change said directory's accessed time?
[12:30] <jonsowman_work> or modified time. or changed time.
[12:35] <m1x10> "All paying members get ops" !!!!!!
[12:36] <ms7821> yes?
[12:36] <ms7821> oh, "ops"
[12:37] <m1x10> :)
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> jonsowman: it does - if yu
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> you do't nave tha pantian mountes nofahtime
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> Sugh
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> Sigh
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> It does, if you don't have the partitionmounted nodiratime
[12:46] <jonsowman_work> from /etc/mtab: /dev/xvda / ext3 rw,noatime,errors=remount-ro 0 0
[12:46] <DanielRichman> well noatime turns off accessed times all togehter?
[12:47] <jonsowman_work> ahh
[12:47] <jonsowman_work> I see
[12:47] <fsphil> speeds things up a bit too
[12:47] <DanielRichman> ^^ the reason it's default on a few systems
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> nodiratime is a bit lighter, and just turns off diratime
[12:47] <jonsowman_work> basically am trying to set up a cronjob to delete old predictions
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> directory atime
[12:47] <jonsowman_work> not massive files
[12:47] <russss> noatime will break certain apps though
[12:48] <russss> so just bear that in mind if your /var is noatime
[12:48] <jonsowman_work> right
[12:48] <jonsowman_work> :)
[12:48] <russss> not many apps, mind.
[12:49] <jonsowman_work> can one enable atime for a certain directory?
[12:50] <russss> you'd have to put it on a separate partition
[12:50] <russss> it's a filesystem-level setting only
[12:50] <jonsowman_work> :(
[12:51] <jonsowman_work> hmm
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> If you are not doing seek limited stuff, and are not on battery, there is little point in mounting noatime
[12:51] <jonsowman_work> SpeedEvil: it's a VPS
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> ah
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> So it probably needs all the help it can get to avoid people doing silly shit
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[12:55] <jonsowman_work> I guess that's why its mounted with noatime by default
[12:55] <jonsowman_work> i'm the only user on it though
[12:55] <jonsowman_work> maybe i'll try mounting without noatime and see how it goes.
[12:57] <DanielRichman> Ubuntu?
[12:57] <jonsowman_work> debian 5.0
[12:57] <jonsowman_work> so yea, pretty much
[12:57] <DanielRichman> I think it's a debian thing
[12:57] <DanielRichman> not sure
[12:58] <DanielRichman> I have a stable VM somewhere
[12:59] <DanielRichman> hmm maybe not, no noatime there
[13:00] <jonsowman_work> will a "chattr -A dirname" just get ignored if the fs is mounted with noatime?
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[13:05] <SpeedEvil> I vaguely remember it is respected, but it's been a while
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> err - no
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> A means 'don't update atime'
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> setting it on a fs mounted with noatime will mean it's ignored, as it's already set
[13:07] <jonsowman_work> I am unsetting it with a "-A" rather than a "+A"
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> umm
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> It's a bit
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> you can't do that
[13:08] <jonsowman_work> oh
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> it's not a virtual bit that is set or unset by the fs mount as default
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> it's an actual bit stored in the inode
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> so you have to change it explicitly - mounting the fs noatime doesn't set all these bits
[13:10] <jonsowman_work> ah i see
[13:10] <jonsowman_work> hmm unfortunate
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[13:28] <jonsowman_work> urgh time zones are confusing
[13:30] <fsphil> daylight savings time doubly so
[13:30] <jonsowman_work> yes
[13:31] <jonsowman_work> definitely
[13:34] <russss> heh
[13:35] <juxta|console> ping SpeedEvil
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> ?
[13:36] <juxta|console> hey there, I was going to ask for some advice if you had a sec :)
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> Go for it.
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> My first bit of advice.
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> Wear sunscreen.
[13:36] <juxta|console> heh
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> Or alternatively, do not go out in the rays of the daystar.
[13:37] <Upu> $$AVA,86,13:37:07,053.7524,-1.8179,262,7,25,24*4225 woo working flight computer :)
[13:37] <juxta|console> I suspect you probably know a thing or two about soldering irons - I'm looking at getting a soldering station after my third iron this year packed up the other day. Currently looking at a weller station, likely to run me around $200AUD - any suggestions on something half decent & good value?
[13:38] <Upu> We use Blackjack Solderworks Rework Station
[13:38] <Upu> dunno what UK £ to AUS $ is
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> I have a kada 852d+
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> works for me.
[13:39] <timbobel> @juxta: ntx2 with your setup isnt working at all
[13:39] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQwHU8vhXY8&feature=related See that.
[13:39] <SpeedEvil> Err
[13:39] <SpeedEvil> not that
[13:39] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quGs3q9nsA8
[13:39] <SpeedEvil> that
[13:39] <fsphil> SpeedEvil, I asked during the net quake yesterday - not sure if you got the msg. what's the difference between the a + b heater. the manual I downloaded doesn't mention them at all
[13:40] <juxta|console> cheers SpeedEvil
[13:40] <SpeedEvil> one is soldering iron, one is airgun
[13:40] <juxta|console> will check it out
[13:40] <fsphil> gotcha, thanks
[13:40] <fsphil> I'm going to bring an old pcb from the office home, try to dismantle it
[13:40] <juxta|console> timbobel: hmm - what's happening? I've used that schema on several boards without issue
[13:41] <timbobel> juxta!
[13:41] <timbobel> IT WORKSSSS
[13:41] <timbobel> carriershift 550....
[13:42] <fsphil> I've got an amiga with a loose graphic chip, going to try fixing that when I've learned how to not burn the pcb ;-)
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> is amiga even surface mount?
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> I suppose it would be all through hole
[13:42] <timbobel> i thought you meant 'friend' with amiga haha
[13:42] <fsphil> yep, at least mine all are
[13:42] <fsphil> the c64 was through hole
[13:43] <fsphil> it's possible the early amigas where too, I don't know
[13:43] <fsphil> haha timbobel, I've a few friends with loose chips too :)
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[13:59] <jonsowman_work> right
[13:59] <jonsowman_work> predictor is now all UTC :)
[14:01] <jonsowman_work> as are the servers, ha
[14:02] <jonsowman_work> none of the BST shit
[14:02] <jonsowman_work> :)
[14:03] Action: Upu removes his +1 hour fudge
[14:03] <Upu> I did have concerns if I launched at say 11pm it may cause issues :)
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[14:04] <jonsowman_work> Upu: should be OK now :)
[14:04] <jonsowman_work> you planning a 11pm launch then? :P
[14:07] <jonsowman_work> think ive marked everything as UTC
[14:08] <jonsowman_work> if anyone spots things I've missed give me a shout :) or github issue it if I'm not around
[14:09] <DanielRichman> BST + php is super annoying sometimes
[14:10] <fsphil> jonsowman_work, can the predictor do hourly predictions I saw once? (Where it had a dot for the landing spot for each hour for the next few days)
[14:10] <jonsowman_work> yep that runs on the SRCF
[14:10] <jonsowman_work> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions
[14:11] <jonsowman_work> you need to ask a CUSF person if you want the scenario changed
[14:11] <jonsowman_work> that is to say myself, Randomskk, Ed
[14:11] <fsphil> would it be easy to setup the predictor locally?
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[14:11] <fsphil> to do that
[14:12] <jonsowman_work> alternatively you can deploy it on your own server: http://github.com/rjw57/cusf-landing-prediction
[14:12] <jonsowman_work> it's not the simplest thing in the world - be warned
[14:12] <jonsowman_work> requires lots of permissions and cron stuff, and a few configs in bash scripts
[14:13] <jonsowman_work> it also uses a significant amount of bandwidth and cpu time
[14:13] <fsphil> no problem with cpu time .. what bandwidth does it use?
[14:13] <jonsowman_work> it downloads GFS data for the entire delta square every 6 hours
[14:14] <jonsowman_work> a 3x3 square is usually fine
[14:14] <jonsowman_work> especially lots of bandwidth if you run it in HD mode
[14:15] <juxta|console> how much is lots of bandwidth jonsowman_work?
[14:15] <juxta|console> MB or GB per day? ;p
[14:16] <jonsowman_work> i ran it for a while - each update would take about 45mins - 1hr
[14:16] <jonsowman_work> at approx constant 2 Mbit
[14:16] <fsphil> ooh err
[14:16] <Upu> I can run that
[14:16] <jonsowman_work> approx 1 GiB per update
[14:16] <jonsowman_work> 4 updates per day
[14:16] <juxta|console> not too bad
[14:17] <juxta|console> but not the smallest either, hehe
[14:17] <jonsowman_work> you can cut it down a bit by not using HD, and by minimising the size of the delta square
[14:17] <Upu> I have VDSL at home now so my upload can do 8Mbits/sec as well
[14:17] <Upu> might give that a shot but my linux server isn hardly endowed in the CPU department
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[14:18] <jonsowman_work> my standalone predictor is much less intensive, as it's only doing a single prediction at a time
[14:19] <jonsowman_work> it also only downloads the small amount of data it needs, and caches data (which the hourly does not)
[14:19] <fsphil> I've ye ol standard 8mbit dsl
[14:19] <fsphil> apparently no download caps, but I bet they'd say something if I tested that :)
[14:20] <jonsowman_work> I haven't run the hourly for a while - rob harrison runs it on his server, you might wanna ask him about bandwidth
[14:20] <jonsowman_work> i dont know if he keeps logs/runs a webserver stats package
[14:20] <Upu> However I have a dual Xeon sat in a data center let me try it on that
[14:20] <fsphil> will it cache the gfs data for the next run?
[14:21] <jonsowman_work> well it only runs every 6 hours, which is when the new data is release
[14:21] <fsphil> no wait, there's no point the data will change
[14:21] <jonsowman_work> exactly
[14:21] Action: fsphil is a bit slow today
[14:21] <jonsowman_work> for the standalone, it's worth caching
[14:21] <jonsowman_work> but for the hourly - no point
[14:21] <Upu> how do I grab all the files ?
[14:22] <Upu> from Git hub
[14:22] <jonsowman_work> Upu: for the hourly?
[14:22] <Upu> http://github.com/rjw57/cusf-landing-prediction
[14:22] <fsphil> git clone http://github.com/rjw57/cusf-landing-prediction.git
[14:22] <Upu> ah
[14:22] <fsphil> (assuming git installed)
[14:22] <jonsowman_work> you'll need all the crap to build the binary too
[14:22] <DanielRichman> github will spin you a tarball of the current branch if you want
[14:22] <fsphil> there should also be a tar.gz file on github somewhere
[14:24] <fsphil> aye, "Download Source" button at the top right
[14:26] <juxta|console> it would be nice to have a consolidated page of links and HAB tools etc
[14:26] <Upu> I got it
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[14:27] <juxta|console> or even a UKHAS server for everything to run on
[14:29] <jonsowman_work> juxta|console: we have lots of computing power between us
[14:29] <jonsowman_work> consolidation would be nice though
[14:29] <jonsowman_work> most people seem to be happy to run services on their own servers for general UKHAS use
[14:30] <juxta|console> yeah, it does work pretty well
[14:30] <juxta|console> but it would be good to have more unified control over things like the tracker/listener given timezone differences and the like
[14:31] <jonsowman_work> that's true
[14:32] <Upu> well if a customer doesn't pay their bills I have a very nice server in a rack
[14:32] <juxta|console> haha
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[14:36] <Upu> damn they paid :)
[14:36] <jonsowman_work> unfortaunte
[14:36] <jonsowman_work> * unfortunate
[14:37] <Upu> well I still have a suitable server in a colo with heaps of CPU unused
[14:38] <Upu> Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.40GHz x4
[14:38] <Upu> 14:38:13 up 17 days, 15:28, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
[14:38] <Upu> :/
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[14:38] <jonsowman_work> afternoon jcoxon
[14:39] <jonsowman_work> Upu: we (CUSF) use the SRCF one as it's really powerful and unlimited bandwidth
[14:39] <jcoxon> afternoon jonsowman
[14:39] <Upu> in that case I shall go back to making a flight computers
[14:39] <Upu> :)
[14:40] <jonsowman_work> :)
[14:40] <jonsowman_work> that sounds ideal if you want to run your own hourly predictor though
[14:40] <Upu> My Radiometrix turned up and I have a data string now
[14:40] <Upu> so I'll try wire that up tonight, not that I have any way of testing it
[14:43] <jonsowman_work> Upu: you decided on a radio?
[14:43] <jcoxon> oh my ft790r is avalaible for borrow if people want
[14:44] <jcoxon> i don't really have space for it right now
[14:45] <juxta|console> how's the moving coming along jcoxon?
[14:47] <jcoxon> well i was meant to do shadowing for my job for 3 days
[14:47] <jcoxon> its only taken 4 hours
[14:47] <jcoxon> so am a bit bored
[14:47] <jcoxon> so back to london tomorrow morning and then proper induction on monday
[14:48] <timbobel> (and can you make a unit that turns of the GPVTG too ;) )
[14:49] <jonsowman_work> VTG is useful sometimes :)
[14:49] <jonsowman_work> speed/bearing for example
[14:50] <juxta|console> I use it :)
[14:50] <jonsowman_work> Apex II used it too
[14:50] Action: jcoxon only uses GPGGA
[14:51] <jonsowman_work> jcoxon :o but what about speed and bearing?!
[14:51] Action: timbobel joins jcoxon camp
[14:51] <jcoxon> cause thats really useful :-p
[14:51] <jonsowman_work> haha
[14:51] <juxta|console> speed is nice
[14:51] <jcoxon> pah, only as a passing interest
[14:51] <juxta|console> to see the balloon travelling far faster than i could ever hope to go and then despair
[14:51] <jcoxon> because you are plotting on a map and observing it
[14:52] <jcoxon> that said i can see proper uses :-p
[14:52] <jcoxon> just don't use them
[14:52] <juxta|console> estimating landing if you lose data near the ground is a real use
[14:53] <timbobel> true.
[14:53] <timbobel> though you can interpolate..
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[14:54] <timbobel> whoop di doo my falcom fsa works fine
[14:54] <timbobel> ntx 2 working, falcom workgin, t68i working..
[14:54] <[MAD]> I want to put a rocket into escape velocity
[14:54] <[MAD]> how?
[14:54] <jonsowman_work> flick it hard
[14:54] <timbobel> CHDK kinda working... it made 3 hours of pictures, 550 pictures, on a half loaded battery
[14:54] <juxta|console> [MAD]: throw some money at it
[14:54] <[MAD]> I think I can float it up high on a balloon to equator
[14:55] <jcoxon> [MAD], that would help
[14:55] <jonsowman_work> timbobel: that's pretty good
[14:55] <[MAD]> I think a balloon can go 60miles up
[14:55] <jcoxon> but escape velocity will still need a big rocket
[14:55] <jcoxon> [MAD], 30miles
[14:55] <[MAD]> higher!
[14:55] <[MAD]> gotta save on fuel
[14:55] <timbobel> need to speak harrison about the >4gb SD cards with CHDK, if anyone sees him, let me know
[14:55] <[MAD]> the high it goes the cheaper the rocket
[14:55] <jcoxon> take it from me - it won't go higher
[14:56] <jcoxon> more likely it'll be 20 -25 miles
[14:56] <DanielRichman> I vageuly remember cusf discussing rockoons; I think they said that it's hard to make it stable enough to launch
[14:56] <timbobel> max.
[14:56] <russss> 20 miles gets you higher than 99% of the atmosphere anyhow.
[14:56] <timbobel> [mad]: you should consider legality. i dont think anyone can put sat's up there
[14:57] <jcoxon> russss, sadly i'm going to have to shift my allegience from londonhackspace to buildbrighton
[14:57] <jcoxon> apologies
[14:57] <jonsowman_work> timbobel: what's up with the 4gb cards?
[14:57] <DanielRichman> CHDK install is different
[14:57] <russss> jcoxon: no problem ;)
[14:57] <DanielRichman> you have to put CHDK on a fat16 I think
[14:57] <DanielRichman> and fat16 doesn't go >4gb
[14:57] <juxta|console> jonsowman_work: CHDK needs a fat16 boot partition, fat16 has a 4gb limit. solution is to have a small fat16 boot partition and a larger fat32 data partition
[14:58] <jcoxon> i thought you could partition it
[14:58] <DanielRichman> there's a howto on the chdk wiki
[14:58] <russss> jcoxon: is your job in Brighton then?
[14:58] <jonsowman_work> ah I see
[14:58] <jcoxon> russss, worthing
[14:58] <jonsowman_work> :)
[14:58] <jonsowman_work> jcoxon: working in shoreham at the moment :)
[14:58] <jcoxon> russss, its such a shame as I live on the overground - so the new space is only 5mins away
[14:58] <[MAD]> google says I can
[14:58] <russss> ah yeah, that sucks
[14:59] <[MAD]> going for google prize
[14:59] <russss> at least you don't have to move *too* far
[14:59] <jcoxon> jonsowman_work, well i'm in worthing
[15:00] <[MAD]> google prize first rocket to land robot on the moon that can be controlled from earth wins $1E6 USD
[15:00] <[MAD]> I need the money
[15:00] <[MAD]> my budget is $5000.00
[15:01] <m1x10> haha
[15:01] <[MAD]> ppl laff and say I can't do it.
[15:01] <[MAD]> but I think I can
[15:01] <m1x10> where is Lunar_lander
[15:01] <[MAD]> it will be built into the robot
[15:01] <jcoxon> [MAD], you'd need something like a ZP balloon and a multistage rocket
[15:01] <jonsowman_work> jcoxon: not far away then
[15:02] <jonsowman_work> been over to worthing a few times for project stuff
[15:02] <juxta|console> [MAD]: Lunar_landar is someone who hangs around here ;)
[15:02] <jcoxon> jonsowman_work, didn't realise that was where you were working
[15:02] <m1x10> haha
[15:02] <jonsowman_work> only temporary :)
[15:02] <jcoxon> how much longer?
[15:02] <[MAD]> yes.
[15:02] <jonsowman_work> jcoxon: not entirely sure. this is my 6th week
[15:02] <[MAD]> I have rocket engine design book
[15:03] <[MAD]> and liquid fuel formula book
[15:03] <jonsowman_work> probably not a huge amount longer, staying until the end of current project phase
[15:03] <jcoxon> fair enough - i'll be full time here from monday
[15:03] <[MAD]> thinking either red fuming nitric acid or h2o2
[15:03] <jcoxon> though living in brighton for the first week
[15:03] <jonsowman_work> :)
[15:03] <jonsowman_work> a lot of people here live in brighton
[15:04] <jcoxon> yeah, very popular, very expensive
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[16:37] <juxta> wow, I just etched a board with persulphate instead of ferric chloride
[16:38] <juxta> it's so much better, there's no comparison
[16:39] <fsphil> that's the clear liquid?
[16:40] <juxta> yeah
[16:40] <juxta> turns a nice blue copper sulphate once it's reacted
[16:40] <juxta> vs the horrible staining ferric chloride
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[16:41] <fsphil> yea, I used it last time and it was a joy to use -- I had it a bit too cool though and it took a while to work
[16:41] <fsphil> I still have a glass jar with it, not sure how long it lasts
[16:42] <juxta> I dont have a bubble tank, i just put a thick ziptie around the board and agitated it
[16:42] <juxta> worked great
[16:42] <juxta> I should think a fair while fsphil, you'll just need to warm it back up again
[16:42] <fsphil> hehe, snap
[16:42] <juxta> supposedly ferric chloride is faster, but I think it's actually the other way around from what i've found
[16:43] <fsphil> I need an easier way to heat it up, I've no source of warm water where I do my etching
[16:43] <juxta> I just use a kettle fsphil
[16:43] <fsphil> ferric chloride just makes a mess
[16:43] <juxta> it's horrible stuff, stains everything
[16:43] <fsphil> it's also nasty to dispose off
[16:43] <fsphil> -f
[16:43] <juxta> yeah
[16:43] <fsphil> hmm.. I could probably get a cheapy little kettle just for it
[16:44] <juxta> i do it in my 'workshop', so I just grab the kettle from the kitchen ;p
[16:46] <fsphil> do you wear gloves?
[16:47] <juxta> i probably should I suppose
[16:47] <fsphil> hehe, I've wondered if I was being overly paranoid about getting the stuff on my hands
[16:47] <juxta> though I dont think came into contact with the etchant thanks to my patented zip tie agitation system ;p
[16:48] <juxta> i was doing the same thing for ferric chloride - mixing it with boiling water
[16:48] <juxta> it's supposed to be faster from what I hear but it seems much slower to me
[16:49] <juxta> perhaps because i'm constantly hoping i dont stain all my clothes, skin, benchtop, etc
[16:49] <fsphil> I've ruined a few desks with the stuff
[16:50] <juxta> i made my workbench out of MDF
[16:50] <juxta> so it takes stains rather well
[16:50] <juxta> but I don't care too much :)
[16:50] <juxta> do you use photoreist fsphil?
[16:50] <juxta> photoresist* even
[16:50] <fsphil> I do
[16:51] <fsphil> I got a uv box a while back
[16:51] <fsphil> and some pre-sensitised boards (sp?)
[16:51] <juxta> nice
[16:51] <juxta> I've been thinking of making a box
[16:51] <juxta> at the moment I do toner transfer
[16:52] <fsphil> how narrow a track can you make with that?
[16:52] <juxta> recently upgraded from a clothes iron to a $30 laminator I modified to lift the heating temperature
[16:52] <juxta> with the laminator, quite narrow - perhaps 15mil or so I guess
[16:52] <juxta> maybe 12 or so if i were really careful
[16:53] <fsphil> that's pretty good, I haven't don't a board that needed that kind of track yet but with the smd stuff I'll have too soon
[16:53] <fsphil> don't=done
[16:53] <juxta> I just did a board with ~19mil very easily
[16:54] <juxta> it would be better if I had the laminator temp regulated
[16:54] <fsphil> yea
[16:54] <juxta> but for now i've lifted the regulation as I couldnt be bothered work out how much resistance to add to the thermisistors - it has 2 different sensors
[16:54] <juxta> so if i leave it plugged in for too long it will eventually catch fire I think
[16:55] <juxta> :D
[16:55] <fsphil> sweet
[16:55] <juxta> I just get it hot to the point where the board it uncomfortably hot when it comes out
[16:55] <juxta> that seems to work well
[16:56] <fsphil> probably more reliable than the uv box -- I never quite seem to get the exposure time just right
[16:56] <juxta> combined with a particular junk mail catalogue which has just the right paper thickness and gloss, pcb's on the cheap ;p
[16:56] <juxta> a guy I know has a UV box and gets very very good tracks
[16:57] <juxta> toner transfer is a bit fiddly - you need to make sure the board is well cleaned etc
[16:57] <juxta> plus my old laser printer is really beyond it - you have to actually push the paper in for most of the feed path
[16:57] <fsphil> haha
[16:57] <juxta> & i don't really want to put magazine paper in my decent laser ;p
[16:58] <fsphil> I got some overhead projector sheets, designed for laser printers
[16:58] <juxta> but laminator vs clothes iron is a huge upgrade
[16:58] <fsphil> seems to work well
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[16:59] <juxta> i've thought about that, i wasnt sure if the toner would stay on the copper or the laminate after i laminated them
[16:59] <fsphil> true
[16:59] <fsphil> I seen somewhere someone had modified an inkjet to print directly onto the copper
[16:59] <juxta> using magazine paper you just leave it in some water for 5 minutes and the paper softens
[17:00] <juxta> wow
[17:00] <juxta> that's dedication :)
[17:00] <fsphil> ain't it! easier just to use the photo method
[17:00] <fsphil> I may have imagined it too... *googles*
[17:00] <juxta> would be easier to do it with a laser printer - the fuser and heaters are already there, so it could put toner directly down onto copper
[17:01] <juxta> i'm sure people have done it with laser printers
[17:01] <fsphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9W6mWtA8YM
[17:01] <fsphil> madness, but cool
[17:01] <timbobel> juxta what kind of problems did you have with your fsa
[17:02] <timbobel> for some reason suddenly it doesnt at all feel like getting a lock in front of the window
[17:02] <juxta> i had a bad module timbobel, wouldnt get lock at all
[17:02] <timbobel> hm k.
[17:02] <juxta> fsphil, that's nifty, my inkjet has a tray like that too, for printing on CD's
[17:02] <juxta> woudlnt be much work at all to get that working as per the video
[17:03] <yonax> juxta: what type of magasine paper do you use for phototransfer?
[17:03] <yonax> juxta: I'm a bit afraid to mess up my printer by feeding it crappy magazine paper
[17:03] <juxta> yonax, here's the exact catalogue I've been using: http://www.gemcell.com.au/common/pdf/95.1.pdf
[17:04] <juxta> :D
[17:04] <juxta> catalogues electrical wholesalers mail me for some reason
[17:04] <juxta> i'd desribe it as about the same thickness as 80gsm office paper
[17:05] <juxta> so it's not thin magazine paper like you might find in.. well, a magazine
[17:05] <juxta> it's got a semi glossy finish too
[17:05] <yonax> it's shiny thouhg, right?
[17:05] <juxta> yeah, semi glossy - not as shiny as inkjet photo paper for example
[17:06] <yonax> okay
[17:06] <juxta> i did try using photo paper, but it's very thick and takes forever to soften in the water
[17:06] <juxta> yonax, i use my old laser printer (hp laserjet 1100) and just go one sheet at a time
[17:07] <juxta> i wouldnt put it in an office multifunction or anything with a convoluted paper path though
[17:07] <yonax> i have a huge printer, laser color and can't afford to f it
[17:07] <juxta> hehe
[17:07] <juxta> well, one thing you can do
[17:08] <juxta> take a sheet of magazine paper and masking tape it to the middle of a sheet of regular paper
[17:08] <juxta> i've seen that done in printers with less than ideal paper paths
[17:09] <juxta> do you have a laminator yonax, or are you going to use an iron?
[17:09] <yonax> iron unfortunately
[17:10] <juxta> iron works ok, but not as nice as a laminator
[17:10] <juxta> but laminators are cheap, mine cost $29.95
[17:10] <yonax> did you had to hack it?
[17:11] <juxta> it has warning on it telling me not to laminate anything thicker than 0.6mm, but it swallows up my 1.6mm thick PCB with only a small amount of clunking and grinding noises
[17:11] <juxta> yonax: yes - it doesnt get hot enough by default (110 degrees or so)
[17:11] <yonax> okay. How many time do you have to repeat the process?
[17:12] <juxta> if you use it as per the manufacturers intentions (110 degrees), you will have a successful transfer after perhaps 20-30 passes
[17:12] <juxta> maybe a bit less
[17:12] <juxta> but lots and lots
[17:12] <juxta> if you cheat and have it get hotter than intended, it works in one pass
[17:13] <juxta> but I do a few in different directions just to be sure
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[17:13] <yonax> how much hotter have you got it running?
[17:13] <juxta> not sure
[17:14] <juxta> I did raise the resistance on the thermisistor sensor to try to trick it and have some level of control
[17:14] <juxta> but now I've just removed both temperature sensors
[17:15] <juxta> I suppose its temperature is really limited by the combustion point of the plastic it's made of :)
[17:15] <yonax> haha sweet
[17:15] <juxta> I would imagine i generally run the boards through around 150-200 degrees
[17:16] <juxta> yonax: this was done with a clothes iron
[17:16] <juxta> http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/IMG_3487.jpg
[17:16] <juxta> you can see the tracks are a little wobbly
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[17:18] <yonax> oh nice, how did you get that red color? solder mask?
[17:19] <juxta> fabric dye :)
[17:19] <juxta> http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/IMG_3486.jpg
[17:22] <fsphil> cute
[17:23] <yonax> yes that's swweet
[17:23] <juxta> hehe - very messy though ;)
[17:23] <juxta> and it takes rather a long time
[17:25] <fsphil> I have a varnish-type spray, protects the tracks but it's a bit sticky for a while
[17:25] <juxta> yeah, I use the same thing
[17:25] <fsphil> and I don't think it would work well with smd parts
[17:26] <juxta> I put it on at the end
[17:26] <juxta> after soldering
[17:26] <juxta> though it's supposed to be 'solder through'
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[17:34] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Ofcom consultation on licence exempt devices might need watching: http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/wireless-telegraphy-devices/
[17:35] <yonax> okay i just tried printing on a magazine paper and it looks nice
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[17:37] <juxta> great yonax :)
[17:38] <DanielRichman> grrrr. AVNET want to charge $50 to airmail me 2 TQFPs by courier
[17:38] <DanielRichman> what do you reckon are my chances of persuading them to stick the chips in an envelope and airmail them for £1?
[17:40] <DanielRichman> on the bright side, I have just found my Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy dvd
[17:41] <juxta> DanielRichman, I had no luck in getting mouser or digikey to mail me 2x 7 cent components in an envelope
[17:41] <juxta> they wanted something like 20 or 30 dollars post
[17:42] <DanielRichman> hmm well Fedex Ground to anywhere in the US is only $8 so if I find a cooperating amerikan person I might be able to ...
[17:42] <DanielRichman> total pita though
[17:42] <juxta> we have AVNET here in aus too
[17:42] <DanielRichman> better than the german company that only accepts bank transfer
[17:42] <juxta> what IC's are you after?
[17:43] <DanielRichman> ATXMEGA*A4 TQFP44
[17:43] <DanielRichman> two of them
[17:43] <DanielRichman> cause I'm going to mess up soldering atleast one
[17:43] <juxta> hehe
[17:43] <Snomi> ill do it for you
[17:44] <DanielRichman> Snomi: you don't live in the US.
[17:44] <Snomi> the soldering
[17:44] <DanielRichman> no you won't
[17:44] <juxta> DanielRichman, this one? http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store/em/EMController/Microcontroller/Atmel/ATXMEGA32A4-AU/_/R-8253206/A-8253206/An-0?action=part&catalogId=500201&langId=-1&storeId=500201&listIndex=-1
[17:44] <Snomi> as long as i get to keep the solder and the iron
[17:44] <DanielRichman> juxta: yeah that's the one
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[17:46] <juxta> don't farnell carry them DanielRichman?
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[17:46] <DanielRichman> no stock
[17:46] <DanielRichman> only avnet and this german company have stock
[17:46] <juxta> how annoying
[17:47] <DanielRichman> very. I wish i knew this when I designed it
[17:47] <juxta> DanielRichman, farnel australia has stock
[17:47] <DanielRichman> juxta: what were you saying about mouser? Either I'm being misled but it looks as if they would mail out those chips for nothing if they had stock
[17:47] <timbobel> juxta: NSS appears NOT to be working with the Mega
[17:48] <DanielRichman> oooh raelly juxta ? I wonder if farnell france etc. does; I'll check the nearest countries
[17:48] <timbobel> which is not really a problem since it has 3 extra serial entrances
[17:48] <juxta> use a real UART if you have one timbobel, much better than a software serial port
[17:49] <juxta> DanielRichman, actually, they have stock on the atxmega32D4 rather than A4
[17:49] <juxta> does that matter?
[17:49] <juxta> less timers and pwm it seems
[17:50] <juxta> the A4 is marked as 'please call' for stock, so i guess that means no
[17:51] <juxta> (though they have ATXMEGA16A4's)
[17:51] <juxta> oh gosh, no they dont. enough from me!
[17:51] <DanielRichman> nah I think I need the a4 not the d4; the d4 doesn't have the DACs
[17:52] <juxta> ah, right
[17:52] <juxta> how annoying
[17:52] <DanielRichman> on a side note: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/news.php?id=403 that is cool
[17:52] <juxta> yeah
[17:53] <juxta> sparkfun actually did their own HAB project I think
[17:53] <timbobel> yeah they did
[17:53] <timbobel> first try failed hard
[17:53] <DanielRichman> wasn't stilldavid some part of that?
[17:53] <stilldavid> hey DanielRichman
[17:54] <DanielRichman> hey stilldavid :P sorry for the random hilight
[17:54] <stilldavid> no worries :)
[17:54] <stilldavid> I did a project, and Nate (the CEO big boss guy) was inspired by it
[17:54] <juxta> do you work at sparkfun stilldavid?
[17:54] <stilldavid> he lost his payload but wound up using all the photos/videos from my project - it created a lot of confusion :)
[17:54] <stilldavid> I do, yes.
[17:55] <juxta> neat! :)
[17:56] <stilldavid> actually, while I'm here... I wound up writing up my whole project. It's a lot to read, but if anyone's interested:
[17:56] <stilldavid> http://stilldavid.com/blog/2010/07/high-altitude-weather-balloon-project/
[17:57] <juxta> i think you're in a channel where most of us will be interested ;)
[18:00] <DanielRichman> oh it's YOU who's responsible for this picture ;D http://www.flickr.com/photos/p1k3/4624344379/
[18:01] <stilldavid> that's me in the picture :)
[18:01] <stilldavid> and yes, I know I'm holding it wrong, etc...
[18:01] <jonsowman> i'm stealing alexei's buttons
[18:01] <jonsowman> i hope he doesnt mind
[18:01] <jonsowman> :)
[18:02] <juxta> i'm off to bed for now
[18:02] <stilldavid> g'nite juxta
[18:02] <jonsowman> see you juxta
[18:03] <juxta> jonsowman, will you be about tomorrow sometime? I'm keen to get hourly predictions up and running on one of my servers & may need some 'tech support' ;p
[18:03] <jonsowman> juxta: I shall be at work but I'll be on IRC
[18:03] <timbobel> haha great picture
[18:04] <jonsowman> :)
[18:04] <juxta> work never stopped anybody from doing anything truly important ;p
[18:04] <timbobel> nighto juxta
[18:04] <jonsowman> juxta: exactly
[18:04] <jonsowman> :)
[18:04] <juxta> night all! :)
[18:04] <jonsowman> night!
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[18:14] <jonsowman> any CSS geniuses around?
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[18:22] <stilldavid> what's up jonsowman ?
[18:22] <jonsowman> http://hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict/#!/uuid=d4fdfd331b5ce6c6e0ad21dbd367b807fefedc9b
[18:23] <jonsowman> the Pan To/CSV/KML buttons
[18:23] <jonsowman> they have a margin-top of 40px
[18:23] <jonsowman> but it seems to do nothing
[18:25] <timbobel> great my arduino mega program is fcked up
[18:25] <timbobel> the loop runs only ONCE
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[18:31] <stilldavid> jonsowman, I think it's because the parent container that the margin is applied to is a span, and not a block level element like a div
[18:32] <stilldavid> change the span to a div and see what happens
[18:32] <jonsowman> righto
[18:34] <jonsowman> hmm
[18:34] <jonsowman> well the margin works
[18:34] <stilldavid> but... ?
[18:35] <jonsowman> but the div has expanded to the full width of the container
[18:36] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Tested my new flight computer last night. Everything seems to work well. Next up, to make a test board. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/19757901882]
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[18:37] <stilldavid> hm. well, if you don't mind markup soup, you can have a child span that has the border/bg on it.
[18:38] <stilldavid> so the div positions everything, then the span colors/borders it
[18:38] <jonsowman> yeh was thinking that
[18:38] <jonsowman> ew
[18:38] <stilldavid> :-/
[18:38] <stilldavid> or apply a static width to the div or something
[18:39] <stilldavid> width: 10em; margin: 12px auto;
[18:46] <DanielRichman> stilldavid: how much do you know about standard US airmail? Royal mail claim that a standard small package <10g is £2 to teh US (I guess if there are chips in it and it's bumpy it doesn't count as a "letter"). Is it a similar price going the other way?
[18:48] <stilldavid> DanielRichman, not enough to give a solid answer, I'm afraid :(
[18:48] <stilldavid> I do know that no matter how small the order, SFE will not ship in an envelope - everything needs to be in a box
[18:49] <jonsowman> stilldavid: cheated :)
[18:49] <jonsowman> used line-height for the container class
[18:50] <DanielRichman> ok stilldavid d/w. bbiab
[18:51] <stilldavid> jonsowman, well played :)
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[19:08] <jonsowman> http://hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict/#!/uuid=d4fdfd331b5ce6c6e0ad21dbd367b807fefedc9b
[19:08] <jonsowman> good/bad buttons?
[19:09] <fsphil> not bad, but needs a hint of colour
[19:11] <jonsowman> in what way?
[19:11] <fsphil> like the run prediction button
[19:12] <jonsowman> hmm yes that's an idea
[19:14] <fsphil> woo, I'm glad I'm not launching on saturday now, it's almost in the water
[19:15] <jonsowman> :)
[19:15] <jonsowman> got a better estimate on launch date?
[19:16] <fsphil> I doubt the caa will get back to me in time for the first window, which was this weekend to the next weekend
[19:16] <fsphil> the second window was for the end of august
[19:16] <fsphil> so hopefully then
[19:16] <jonsowman> :)
[19:16] <fsphil> I've given up on the IAA, I'll just have to make sure not to launch if it looks likely to cross the border
[19:17] <jonsowman> yea
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[19:18] <fsphil> on the plus side I get more development time
[19:18] <fsphil> the jpeg stuff is proving tricky
[19:18] <jonsowman> true
[19:18] <jonsowman> mm i can imagine
[19:25] <timbobel> i officially hate the falcom module
[19:25] <timbobel> sitting in front of my window for 30 minutes. Nothing.
[19:25] <timbobel> no lock
[19:26] <jonsowman> depends where satellites are
[19:26] <jonsowman> take it outside where it's got a proper view of the sky
[19:26] <jonsowman> :)
[19:26] <fsphil> up? :)
[19:26] <jonsowman> fsphil: go and remind it :)
[19:26] <fsphil> hehe, I've had that conversation with a couple of satnavs already
[19:26] <jonsowman> haha
[19:27] <fsphil> bbl
[19:27] <jonsowman> ok
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> Windows can almost totally shield FPS
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> GPS
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> If they are the right sort of energy saving ones
[19:30] <jonsowman> weird that
[19:54] <m1x10> timbobel still problems?
[19:55] <m1x10> do u see any actual output from it?
[19:56] <m1x10> ppl in this channel suggest me with certainty the FSA mod
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[20:12] <timbobel> i just did get some reception
[20:12] <timbobel> its worse than another vinotech(tyco) one i have. i blame it on the helical antenna
[20:12] <timbobel> also, it's ridiculous it doesnt retain its settings
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[20:40] <m1x10> to retain its setting you got to use a battery.
[20:40] <timbobel> am using, in fact, i have the breakout
[20:40] <m1x10> check this breakout: http://www.esawdust.com/product/egps-fsa03-bkob/
[20:40] <timbobel> have.
[20:40] <m1x10> ah ok
[20:41] <timbobel> not doing much
[20:41] <m1x10> impossible
[20:42] <m1x10> maybe your module is defective?
[20:42] <m1x10> did you contact esawdust ?
[20:42] <m1x10> if there is a battery and it doesnt retain the settings thats esawdust's problem
[20:43] <m1x10> he provides you the breakout which should do the job
[20:43] <m1x10> I advice you to contact him
[20:45] <timbobel> yeah he wont fix it before sunday
[20:46] <m1x10> you bought the entire assembled board? or just the breakout and you did the soldering?
[20:47] <m1x10> as soon as i get the board I will test it in detail the first day to be sure he doesnt send any defective modules
[21:21] <jonsowman> anyone know how to retrieve the position of a google maps marker?
[21:21] <jonsowman> i've got the marker object
[21:21] <jonsowman> i thought "markerobh.lat()" but apparently not
[21:27] <jonsowman> ah got it :)
[21:27] <jonsowman> the V3 API is weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeird
[21:29] <fsphil> jonsowman, is this bad data -> http://hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict/#!/uuid=d153aa216fd41272d837aa2ca8f1851f22c04bc4
[21:30] <fsphil> near Cumnock in Scotland, it veers south -- that's where the red box was when I first ran it, made the box bigger but it still shows the sharp turn
[21:32] <jonsowman> how intriguing
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[21:34] <jonsowman> hmm this is weird
[21:36] <jonsowman> it just doesnt seem to like slow ascent rates
[21:36] <jonsowman> wiped all cached data and it still does it
[21:37] <fsphil> oh wait, that's the 4th .. could just be the end of the gfs data
[21:37] <fsphil> +7 days
[21:37] <jonsowman> aaaah
[21:37] <jonsowman> bet that's why
[21:37] <jonsowman> trying now for 3rd
[21:37] <fsphil> nice coincidence that it ended right on the red line
[21:37] <jonsowman> yeh
[21:38] <jonsowman> nope 3rd screws up too
[21:38] <fsphil> 4th, at 10am works
[21:38] <jonsowman> lets look at predictor logs
[21:41] <jonsowman> hmm nothing
[21:41] <fsphil> ah - happened again .. balloon burst and landed outside the red box, re-ran with bigger box and same burst and landing spot
[21:41] <fsphil> http://hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict/#!/uuid=2c8c49b1f1b48696d242674d66aff7d3d776ed34
[21:43] <jonsowman> hmm
[21:43] <jonsowman> no log entries
[21:43] <jonsowman> flight path CSV just stops
[21:44] <fsphil> sorry for breaking things ;-)
[21:44] <jonsowman> no it's fine, I'd like to fix them :)
[21:44] <jonsowman> when I can :s
[21:44] <jonsowman> stick the asc rate to 2m/s and it's fine
[21:44] <jonsowman> i don't know why 1m/s would kill it
[21:45] <fsphil> that is strange
[21:45] <jonsowman> have a look at the CSV
[21:46] <fsphil> anything to do with the meridian?
[21:47] <fsphil> well, -2
[21:47] <jonsowman> i was thinking that
[21:47] <fsphil> the scotland one was exactly -4
[21:47] <fsphil> when it veered off
[21:48] <jonsowman> hmmmm i've had a thought
[21:50] <jonsowman> im going to commit this to git before i screw around with things
[21:54] <jonsowman> ./predict.py -v --latdelta=5 --londelta=3 -p1 -f5 -t 1280833200 --lat=55 --lon=-7 976177d1d15d5fa7857d0b9ee0f2ca09fafad7dd
[21:54] <jonsowman> right so that's what it runs
[21:55] <jonsowman> and it dies at lon=-2
[21:55] <jonsowman> hmmmmmmm
[21:55] <jonsowman> very suspicious
[21:58] <jonsowman> fsphil: http://hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict/#!/uuid=3f06971c8507b2edc8f55a3ab188fa9315d0cff3
[22:11] <fsphil> splash
[22:12] <fsphil> is that one valid?
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[22:23] <jcoxon> ping jonsowman
[22:25] <Wild-Wing> hehe how is every one
[22:26] <jcoxon> hi Wild-Wing
[22:26] <jcoxon> good thanks
[22:26] <jcoxon> you?
[22:26] <Wild-Wing> im good thanks for asking jcoxon
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[22:28] <jcoxon> Wild-Wing, iirc you were just starting to work on a HAB project
[22:29] <Wild-Wing> well doing research into it
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[22:29] <jcoxon> in the states?
[22:29] <Wild-Wing> in the usa yes
[22:29] <jcoxon> cool
[22:31] <Wild-Wing> yea i have always wanted to see the earth at high altitude
[22:31] <jcoxon> this is a good way of doing it
[22:31] <jcoxon> being in the US the key is whether you'll take the ham licence route or the non ham licence route
[22:31] <earthshine> evening
[22:32] <Wild-Wing> i think ill go the non ham license route the 900mhz radios seem intresting
[22:33] <jonsowman> pong jcoxon
[22:33] <jonsowman> whats up?
[22:33] <jcoxon> bill brown is doing a 900mhz test flight this weekend
[22:33] <jonsowman> fsphil: look at the flight time
[22:33] <jcoxon> jonsowman, so there was a mention on the GPSL list about dl-fldigi remote interface - any further thoughts
[22:34] <jonsowman> i have my mental plan for what i'm aiming to do with it
[22:35] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:35] <jonsowman> i'm kinda aiming to implement the transport layer and get all the ajaxy stuff working, not worrying too much about the graphics on the frontend
[22:35] <jcoxon> okay cool
[22:35] <jcoxon> yeah guess thats the frontend is the easy bit
[22:35] <jonsowman> it's more that i'd rather give the frontend to someone who can do graphics
[22:35] <jonsowman> as I can't :P
[22:36] <Wild-Wing> sounds like your got your self into a code nightmare jonsowman
[22:36] <jonsowman> haha, why's that Wild-Wing?
[22:36] <Wild-Wing> because it sounds like its a mess
[22:37] <jonsowman> i think each object on the frontend shall have an RPC name and state
[22:38] <jonsowman> interactions with the object cause the ajax event handler to shove the curent state and the required state of the object, and the actual object name/description, to the php backend on the server, which creates, formats and posts the RPC
[22:38] <jonsowman> aiming to make it as modular as possible
[22:38] <jonsowman> so adding a new objec to the UI is simply a matter of designing the graphic, and telling it which RPC call to use when clicked
[22:39] <Wild-Wing> omfg thats alot of work
[22:39] <jcoxon> jonsowman, makes sense
[22:39] <jcoxon> its surely jsut lots of replication
[22:39] <jcoxon> once you've defined one RPC function
[22:41] <jonsowman> yeh definitely
[22:41] <jcoxon> now the annoying question...
[22:41] <jcoxon> time?
[22:41] <jonsowman> well friday is my last day at work, it turns out, and i'm then away until monday
[22:42] <jonsowman> i have all of next week free though :)
[22:42] <jcoxon> sounds like you are already busy!
[22:42] <jcoxon> okay cool
[22:42] <Wild-Wing> hehe it does sound like you got your hands tied though
[22:42] <jcoxon> well shout when you are free and i'll try and help out
[22:42] <jonsowman> excellent, thank you
[22:42] <jcoxon> Wild-Wing, it'll be very cool when it works...
[22:42] <jonsowman> i can't promise anything time-wise, and don't let the fact i'm working on it stop other people developing :)
[22:42] <Wild-Wing> oh i bet it will be awesome when its finished and works
[22:43] <jcoxon> jonsowman, i'm good at replication - once the ground work is laid i'll push on
[22:43] <fsphil> I can lend a hand testing
[22:43] <fsphil> I may even fix bugs :)
[22:43] <jonsowman> I'll be on here of course and letting you all know how things are going :)
[22:44] <jonsowman> fsphil: still not entirely sure on this predictor bug. i'm going to poke it more tomorrow
[22:44] <jonsowman> that's another thing i've got to do
[22:44] <fsphil> no worries - at least it's been spotted now
[22:44] <jonsowman> fix all the remaining predictor stuff and deploy on SRCF
[22:47] <jonsowman> one more predictor issue closed \o/
[22:47] <m1x10> :)
[22:48] <jonsowman> right, bedtime
[22:48] <jonsowman> 6.30 start, urgh
[22:48] <jonsowman> see you guys
[22:48] <jcoxon> night
[22:48] <m1x10> bb
[22:49] <fsphil> ooch, night jonsowman
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[23:04] <Wild-Wing> has anyone done anything new?
[23:04] <timbobel> night
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[23:04] <Wild-Wing> night jonsowman
[23:05] <fsphil> not me, just breaking stuff :)
[23:05] <Wild-Wing> lol
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[00:00] --- Thu Jul 29 2010