highaltitude.log.20100727

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[00:08] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[00:08] <SpeedEvil> indeed
[00:16] <DanielRichman> -// generated by Fast Light User Interface Designer (fluid) version 1.0110
[00:16] <DanielRichman> +// generated by Fast Light User Interface Designer (fluid) version 1.0109
[00:16] <DanielRichman> ;'(
[00:19] <DanielRichman> fldigi/src/misc/pixmaps.cxx <-- this is ridiculous
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[00:28] <sbasuita> this is madness
[00:33] <Laurenceb> hmm that flyless board uses 3.0v for the servo pwm
[00:33] <Laurenceb> I'm not convinced that will work
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[00:40] <SpeedEvil> I suspect it will for most
[00:40] Action: SpeedEvil is tired.
[00:40] <Laurenceb> I've had some issues with some serovs
[00:40] <Laurenceb> that board does have servo pwm input actually
[00:40] <SpeedEvil> Is 3d distance simply sqrt(sqrt(x^2+y^2)^2+z^2) ?
[00:40] <Laurenceb> huh
[00:41] <Laurenceb> sqrt(x^2+y^2+z^2)
[00:41] <SpeedEvil> doh
[00:41] <Laurenceb> :D
[00:41] <SpeedEvil> I wastrying to overthink it.
[00:41] <SpeedEvil> Trying to generate nice curves for n900 GPS error
[00:41] <Laurenceb> neat
[00:41] <SpeedEvil> the .01% contour is surprisingly far out
[00:42] <Laurenceb> hmm 25x40mm or something - flyless board
[00:42] <Laurenceb> nice and small
[00:42] <SpeedEvil> True
[00:43] <Laurenceb> but still no gps or radio, and its rather fryable with the servos driven like that
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[00:43] <Laurenceb> some Rc kit can chuck out some nasty voltage spikes - I stuck a 20v tolerant voltage level shifter inbetween
[00:43] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, whats the issue?
[00:44] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: with what?
[00:44] <jcoxon> pixmaps.cxx
[00:44] <DanielRichman> oh it's just totally crazy
[00:44] <jcoxon> i fell dl-fldigi is crazy
[00:44] <DanielRichman> that's from vanilla fldigi
[00:44] <Laurenceb> it is rather overcomplex
[00:44] <DanielRichman> I don't want to know what they were smoking when they chose that format
[00:45] <DanielRichman> if it's handwritten... just....!?
[00:45] <DanielRichman> if it's automatically generated from images there are much better ways to do that
[00:45] <Laurenceb> http://gb.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/LSM303DLH/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvhQj7WZhFIAJtuzEmM6uP1nTppibAgZsU%3d
[00:45] <Laurenceb> finally - delivery dates
[00:45] <Laurenceb> have to wait till august :(
[00:46] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: I stumbled upon that file while merging some stuff in my testing branch
[00:46] <jcoxon> hehe
[00:46] <Laurenceb> http://gb.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Atmel/ATAVRRZ600/?qs=PwR17mNzlcMc8SrM8C%2f2rQ%3d%3d <- niiiiiice
[00:46] <DanielRichman> was looking for the >>>> <<<< with grep to make sure I hadn't missed any
[00:46] <DanielRichman> and there are tonnes of <> in that file
[00:46] <DanielRichman> so I had a look >,<
[00:48] <Laurenceb> http://gb.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Honeywell/HAFBSF0200C2AX3/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuzbTQtkcZtfCgIeOs4DWdxBE5NVnG79V4%3d
[00:48] <Laurenceb> ^ thats an interesting beast too
[00:48] Action: Laurenceb likes mouser
[00:49] <DanielRichman> hmm I need to convert my farnell order to a mouser one since it seems they're never going to stock this component that's "Awaiting Delivery"
[00:49] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb: do they have a minimum order £ or large delivery charge at mouser (to the UK)?
[00:49] <Laurenceb> cant remeber - I've only ever order large orders from them
[00:49] <Laurenceb> but I got free delivery
[00:49] <SpeedEvil> Is that the 6 axis one?
[00:49] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb:
[00:49] <Laurenceb> I like their user interface- parametric search a lot
[00:49] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:50] <DanielRichman> farnell's parametric search... I think... just continously trolls me
[00:50] <Laurenceb> its infinately better than any other site rather accept digikey maybe
[00:50] <Laurenceb> farnell search scrolls the page up and down all the time
[00:50] <Laurenceb> SO annoying
[00:51] <DanielRichman> and the data entry is all broken and I think even on components for which the fields are filled out correctly farnell's parametric goes ahead and hides components (cheaper) that match my criteria
[00:51] <Laurenceb> one way to do it - use mouser to find nice parts then search for the number on farnell
[00:52] <DanielRichman> :P
[00:52] <Laurenceb> http://sensing.honeywell.com/index.cfm?ci_id=140301&la_id=1&pr_id=157429 <- that seems to be a integrated hot wire sensor
[00:52] <Laurenceb> pretty handy
[00:52] <DanielRichman> has anyone here tried to request free samples from ATMEL?
[00:53] <Laurenceb> nope, I hear its next to impossible
[00:53] <Laurenceb> tho ST will give you free samples of lots of stuff thats not listed as samplable btw
[00:54] <DanielRichman> interesting
[00:54] <DanielRichman> I hope atmel will reply with a "no" rather than just ignoring me like sales@farnell.com did
[00:55] <Laurenceb> AD are also very good for samples in my experience at least
[00:55] <Laurenceb> I nead to try sampling from linear tech as they have some neat stuff
[00:57] <Laurenceb> night all
[00:57] <DanielRichman> night
[00:57] <SpeedEvil> Night
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[01:01] <DanielRichman> awesome; no minimum order & free shipping if it's only two 44tqfps (from america, I'm guessing)
[01:01] <DanielRichman> Guess they just stuff them in an envolope
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[07:57] <m1x10> morning all ppl :)
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[08:12] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:12] <jcoxon> anyone around who runs the newish version of dl-fldigi
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[09:19] <fsphil> morning m1x10 and jcoxon
[09:22] <m1x10> hi
[09:22] <jcoxon> morning
[09:22] <m1x10> today i got a surpris
[09:23] <m1x10> e
[09:23] <jcoxon> fsphil, working on something clever on dl-fldigi
[09:23] <m1x10> my radioshield from radioshield just arrived. shipping days only 7 !!!
[09:23] <m1x10> from argentdata.com*
[09:23] <m1x10> i chose the cheapest shipping and it came faster
[09:24] <m1x10> faster than sparkfun !
[09:24] <fsphil> ooh clever is good .. what's it?
[09:24] <jcoxon> so you know the docked scope
[09:24] <m1x10> coffee time ! cu later guys !
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[09:25] <jcoxon> why don't we do the same with the rig control
[09:25] <jcoxon> or rather either/or
[09:25] <fsphil> put it out in a separate window?
[09:25] <jcoxon> no dock it
[09:25] <jcoxon> so it sits in the waterfall box on the right
[09:26] <jcoxon> you might not have seen the feature
[09:26] <fsphil> hmm, no I've missed that -- the scope opens in a separate window here
[09:26] <jcoxon> on --hab it it docks
[09:26] <fsphil> ah hold on, my regular fldigi is out of date
[09:26] <jcoxon> oh this is in dl-fldigi
[09:27] <jcoxon> on mine in --hab it can be selected just below your SSDV window in the menu
[09:28] <fsphil> aah got it
[09:28] <fsphil> ooh the interface in the newest fldigi is configurable
[09:29] <jcoxon> it is?
[09:29] <fsphil> well, the controls can be hidden completely
[09:30] <jcoxon> not sure i follow
[09:30] <fsphil> can switch between the full set of controls, or just the rig control, or none at all (just the input and output boxes, and the waterfall)
[09:31] <jcoxon> oh
[09:31] <jcoxon> i'll grab the latest
[09:33] <jcoxon> oh i see
[09:33] <fsphil> the rig-control only option lacks the radio mode setting
[09:33] <jcoxon> so
[09:33] <jcoxon> getting back to what i was saying :-p
[09:34] <fsphil> lol
[09:34] <jcoxon> so instead of the docked scope
[09:34] <jcoxon> we could dock the rigcontrol
[09:34] <jcoxon> easily turned on and off
[09:34] <fsphil> that would be ideal
[09:34] <jcoxon> you could activate it, change something, turn it off and carry on
[09:35] <jcoxon> looking at those new changes - in some way we could of skipped the --hab bit and just added a hab setting to the user interface
[09:35] <jcoxon> and it would hide stuff etc
[09:35] <fsphil> yea, have the hab controls as another interface component
[09:36] <jcoxon> hehe, i ain't volunteering
[09:36] <fsphil> understandable :)
[09:36] <jcoxon> i guess we get more control with our current setup
[09:36] <jcoxon> and keeps everything very seperate - as in we can run our upload threads etc
[09:38] <fsphil> integrating it better should be a goal
[09:38] <fsphil> we might even be able to convince upstream to merge some of the code
[09:38] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:39] <jcoxon> best chat with the team :-p
[09:39] <jcoxon> i agree though - the cleaner, better intergrated the better
[09:40] <jcoxon> also having so much in dl_fldigi.cxx it won't be too difficult
[09:41] <fsphil> yea, the only iffy bit is the interface
[09:41] <fsphil> but that was a side effect of the way fldigi did it originally
[09:42] <fsphil> be interesting to see what they've changed in this new version
[09:43] <jcoxon> yeah could be a bit messy
[09:44] <fsphil> trying now
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[09:44] <fsphil> ah, few conflicts but that wasn't too horrible .. yet
[09:45] Nick change: ms7821_ -> ms7821
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[09:53] <fsphil> conflicts resolved, building
[09:55] <fsphil> built - I love git :)
[09:56] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:56] <fsphil> as expected, in normal mode is has all the new stuff and in --hab mode is exactly as before
[09:57] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:58] <fsphil> I haven't looked at how they changed their interface just yet .. if they've modularised it a bit then it's a good chance to get the hab bits in there properly instead of duplicating the main window code
[09:58] <jcoxon> yes that was what i was thinking
[09:58] <jcoxon> if its just a matter of hiding them
[09:58] <jcoxon> the we could modularise the hab group
[09:58] <jcoxon> and then make our own interface setting
[09:59] <jcoxon> and if we were to move the operator lat/lon etc into our dlclient tab then it would be super modular
[10:00] <jcoxon> just pulled your master
[10:01] <jcoxon> eek
[10:01] <jcoxon> error
[10:01] <fsphil> uhoh
[10:01] <jcoxon> dialogs/confdialog.cxx: In function ?void cb_mnu_prosign(Fl_Choice*, void*)?:
[10:01] <jcoxon> dialogs/confdialog.cxx:902: error: ?mnu_prosign? was not declared in this scope
[10:02] <fsphil> I ran make clean and autoreconf -vfi, you might need too aswell
[10:02] <fsphil> I just do it out of habbit now
[10:02] <fsphil> -b
[10:02] <jcoxon> good point
[10:03] <fsphil> brb
[10:06] <jcoxon> still erroring
[10:07] <jcoxon> hmm seemed to be fixed by opening up confdialog.fl in fluid, writing the file and saving
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[11:23] <timbobel> mornin
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[11:25] <fsphil> morning timbobel, how's things?
[11:27] <timbobel> complicated
[11:27] <timbobel> i hooked up the NTX2, after an hour got it working
[11:27] <timbobel> 7n1... though, with .716mhz shift (?!)
[11:31] <timbobel> i used same schematic as the Alien project did
[11:31] <timbobel> www.hollandshoogte.nl check the blogpost
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> Mhz?
[11:36] Nick change: DanielRi1hman -> DanielRichman
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[11:37] <timbobel> .760MHZ so like 760 kHz
[11:37] <timbobel> i really dont get it
[11:38] <fsphil> not 760Hz?
[11:39] <timbobel> let me check
[11:39] <timbobel> its just twice the normal 450
[11:40] <DanielRichman> have you set pinmodes for both as output?
[11:40] <jonsowman_work> hello all
[11:40] <timbobel> it's "760 shift", fldigi doesnt say what that is
[11:40] <fsphil> it'll be Hz
[11:40] <timbobel> yes sir
[11:40] <DanielRichman> hey jonsowman_work
[11:40] <fsphil> howdy jonsowman_work
[11:41] <timbobel> ah okay..
[11:42] <timbobel> pinMode(9, OUTPUT);
[11:42] <timbobel> pinMode(11, OUTPUT);
[11:42] <timbobel> i did
[11:42] <SpeedEvil> the module can't do 760khz
[11:42] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:43] <fsphil> it's possible you might have both pins on or off at some point
[11:45] <timbobel> could it be the inexistant antenna?
[11:46] <jonsowman_work> unlikely
[11:46] <fsphil> the antenna won't change the shift
[11:46] <fsphil> can you print the code you use to set the bit?
[11:46] <timbobel> that's what i found out indeed.
[11:46] <DanielRichman> yeah let's see the code :)
[11:46] <timbobel> my infamous coding. ok just a sec
[11:48] <timbobel> http://www.codedump.be/code/902/
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[11:53] <fsphil> both pins are being set, that bit looks fine
[11:54] <timbobel> it really looks like i just made a simple error somewhere.. but.. no idea where
[11:55] <timbobel> am using NTX2-434-650-10
[11:55] <timbobel> everything 5V
[11:55] <timbobel> (that's why i use the 10kOhm resistors
[11:58] <fsphil> I'm not familiar with the arduino, are pins 9 or 11 used for anything else?
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[12:00] <timbobel> no they should be fine
[12:00] <timbobel> they do have asome SISO/MISO/MOSI whatever functions though
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[12:07] <jcoxon> russss, what happened to hackspace!?!
[12:07] <russss> someone gave us an entire metalworking workshop on long-term loan
[12:08] <jcoxon> wow
[12:08] <jcoxon> and with all the space :-)
[12:09] <fsphil> jcoxon, you have a rouge confdialog.h in src/dialog/
[12:10] <jcoxon> i do?
[12:10] <jcoxon> i think i must of fixed that then
[12:10] <jcoxon> when i reran fluid
[12:11] <jcoxon> just pushed to my master
[12:11] <jcoxon> i think its fixed
[12:11] <fsphil> fluid creates src/dialog/confdialog.h -- upstream move that file to include/confdialog.h
[12:12] <jcoxon> oh
[12:12] <fsphil> yea, stupid but hey
[12:12] <jcoxon> so when we run fluid do we need to copy it to include/ now?
[12:12] <jonsowman_work> hi jcoxon
[12:13] <fsphil> or just move it
[12:13] <jcoxon> hey jonsowman
[12:13] <LazyLeopard> russss: Wow!
[12:13] <fsphil> it would be nice if fluid could be told where to put the include file
[12:17] <jcoxon> fsphil, okay i've done that cp - hopefully thats sorted
[12:25] <fsphil> aye, just have to remember about that next time we do anything in fluid
[12:32] <DanielRichman> Upu: you there?
[12:32] <DanielRichman> I was having a poke in the arduino code re: your float rounding issues
[12:32] <DanielRichman> this is the definition for the print() function that prints doubles:
[12:32] <DanielRichman> void print(double, int = 2);
[12:32] <DanielRichman> the second parameter is called "digits" and there it is defaulting to 2pd
[12:32] <DanielRichman> *dp
[12:33] <DanielRichman> so you can Serial.print(myfloat, 4) to rediscover the precision you missed
[12:34] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, fsphil and i have been discussing the dl-fldigi interface
[12:34] <juxta> timbobel, you still around?
[12:35] <DanielRichman> yeah jcoxon
[12:35] <jcoxon> basically the latest fldigi has a new interface concept
[12:36] <jcoxon> probably best seen :-p
[12:36] <jonsowman_work> oo is it pretty?
[12:36] <fsphil> I could describe it again if you want? ;-)
[12:37] <jonsowman_work> fsphil: any chance of a screenshot or something? :)
[12:37] <jcoxon> jonsowman_work, its not a new look
[12:37] <jcoxon> more a different way of having 'custom' interfaces
[12:37] <jonsowman_work> ahh I see
[12:37] <juxta> hi jcoxon, DanielRichman, fsphil, jonsowman_work & others :)
[12:37] <jonsowman_work> hello juxta :)
[12:37] <DanielRichman> hey
[12:37] <fsphil> hiya juxta
[12:38] <jcoxon> so for contest modes they get rid of lots of the random buttons
[12:38] <jonsowman_work> Aah I see
[12:38] <jcoxon> we were thinking that all we'd have to do is a HAB mode
[12:38] <jonsowman_work> when you said interface, I assumed UI
[12:38] <jcoxon> well yeah it is the UI :-p
[12:38] <jcoxon> so you select contest mode, and the rig control disappears and you only have tx and rx boxes and the waterfall
[12:39] <jonsowman_work> oh i see
[12:39] <jonsowman_work> that's quite neat
[12:39] <jcoxon> so we'd add a hab mode and when you select it it would rearrange everything
[12:39] <jcoxon> accordingly
[12:39] <jonsowman_work> like it
[12:40] <fsphil> oh, the TX box could be made optional too - for those who might be doing uplinks
[12:40] <juxta> that's a cool concept
[12:40] <jcoxon> and as fsphil pointed out if its modular enough who knows we could upstream it...
[12:42] <jonsowman_work> :)
[12:42] <jcoxon> that said probably best to keep it seperate - we release/develop far quicker
[12:43] <timbobel> juxta: im here
[12:44] <juxta> hey timbobel, still having trouble with your NTX2 shift?
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[12:49] <jonsowman_work__> i'm collecting underscores
[12:49] <timbobel> juxta; yes.
[12:49] <timbobel> i used your code, and Alien's setup.
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[12:51] Nick change: jonsowman_work__ -> jonsowman_work
[12:52] <juxta> timbobel, www.bogaurd.net/ntx2.png
[12:53] <juxta> that will give you a 425hz shift running on 5v & using common resistors
[12:57] <juxta> jcoxon, are you still about?
[12:58] <jcoxon> yup
[12:58] <juxta> do you have the FSA03 footprint?
[12:59] <jcoxon> yup
[12:59] <jcoxon> want it?
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[12:59] <juxta> no no, I have it - I was going to send you my board schema etc if you wanted to use it for your new atlas computer :)
[13:00] <jcoxon> hehe, i won't start designing that for a few weeks
[13:00] <jcoxon> got do start my job
[13:00] <juxta> ahh the real world, how annoying
[13:01] <m1x10> hi juxta and jcoxon
[13:01] <jcoxon> hehe
[13:01] <juxta> in other news I think those guys from sydney are hoping to launch this weekend perhaps
[13:01] <jcoxon> oh cool
[13:02] <juxta> though I'm not sure how, given that they haven't written any code, built the payload or tested anything yet
[13:02] <juxta> =\
[13:02] <juxta> hey m1x10
[13:02] <jcoxon> hehe
[13:02] <jcoxon> eek
[13:03] <juxta> i wonder if it's worth putting a ground plane exclusion underneath the FSA03 or if i should trust the soldermask to protect the traces
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> Launch at night.
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> Trigger bright multicoloured strobe on the way down
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> track news reports
[13:03] <juxta> haha
[13:04] <juxta> I think you underestimate how few people live out my way
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> On related matters, I've speculated about nuclear fireworks.
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> Pack the entire mass of the initial fireball round the bomb, but in compounds that will emit colour
[13:06] <fsphil> "Red and yellow and green and boom"
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> Also - fireballs with smilies on.
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> Who couldn't love those.
[13:07] <DanielRichman> juxta: I think I excluded and removed everything under my fsa03 footprint
[13:08] <juxta> will do the same, dont want to put too much faith in the soldermask on the FSA03 as I don't have soldermask on my home etched board ;)
[13:08] <DanielRichman> the manual says "no ground plane under device" which could either mean: don't put one under it, or it could mean that there is no ground plane on the underside of the fsa like there is on those QFN packages
[13:08] <juxta> yeah, it's very vague - I wasnt sure what they meant by that either
[13:08] Action: jcoxon loves it when a return train ticket is less then a single
[13:09] <DanielRichman> juxta: note the dotted line (ground plane) is bent around the fsa03; though I put something else underneath it instead
[13:09] <fsphil> virgin rail?
[13:09] <DanielRichman> http://github.com/danielrichman/alien/blob/master/alien2/eagle/alien2b.png
[13:09] <juxta> haha
[13:09] <jcoxon> southern - realised that is cheaper/less hassle to get the train then to drive down for 2 nights and stress about parking
[13:09] <juxta> smileys
[13:11] <DanielRichman> I'm not yet sure whether I should add temperature sensors to that pcb
[13:11] <fsphil> I remember when I first discovered smilies ... I used them everywhere for about a year after :-)
[13:11] <juxta> cheers DanielRichman
[13:11] <DanielRichman> I might add a few of the ukhas-standard ds(whatever) temperature sensors in their SMD pacakges to it
[13:11] <jcoxon> hehe one wire magic :-p
[13:11] <juxta> my track linking the 2 GND points on the FSA03 actually goes inwards as I dont have much room/choice
[13:12] <fsphil> do both the two GND pins need to be connected?
[13:12] <fsphil> I was going to skip one
[13:12] <juxta> I'm not sure
[13:12] <juxta> I suspect not
[13:14] <DanielRichman> Having acknowleged that the alien code sometimes can be a bit of a mess, I extracted the SMS sending bits for timbobel's use on the Arduino. If anyone else wants the result, it's here (though the phone number bits have been blanked out; you'd have to reconstruct those. https://gist.github.com/492132
[13:14] <timbobel> daniel is absolutely brilliant
[13:16] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[13:16] Action: SpeedEvil wishes SMS sending worked throuhg pnatd on the n900.
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> But that's kinda unrelated.
[13:16] Action: timbobel cheers
[13:16] <timbobel> i have this whole week free to work on sunday's launch; i suspected the smsing to take 3 days, it took no less than an hour.
[13:17] <jcoxon> sunday launch!
[13:17] <timbobel> that's the plan, from holland, that is.
[13:17] <timbobel> i have got everything i need
[13:17] <jcoxon> forcasts good?
[13:17] <timbobel> not checked
[13:17] <jcoxon> !
[13:18] <fsphil> go check!
[13:18] <jcoxon> though still far away
[13:18] <timbobel> thats why
[13:18] <juxta> DanielRichman, why did you exclude the groundplane around the SMA connector? just for simplicity?
[13:18] <jcoxon> yeah but its important for general idea
[13:18] <DanielRichman> juxta: I think the exclusion was more around the Radiometrix's RF Ground bitz
[13:18] <DanielRichman> I think they say you shouldnt' connect RFGND pins to your own, main, ground
[13:18] <DanielRichman> so I just kept out of the way :)
[13:19] <juxta> ah righto
[13:19] <jcoxon> bbl
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[13:21] <timbobel> in CU spaceflight, i have to give up the launchtime. What time is this exactly
[13:22] <timbobel> GMT? local time at place ofcoords?
[13:22] <timbobel> i launch at 11:00 netherlands time
[13:23] <juxta> timbobel, GMT
[13:24] <timbobel> righto. juxta, thanks for that new schematic. though, it sucks, since i have got some highgrade resistors in house for the schematic i already had
[13:24] <timbobel> and that schematic, has proven to work :(
[13:25] <juxta> high grade, as in low tolerance?
[13:26] <timbobel> they can cope with the extreme temps
[13:26] <timbobel> and they're about 4 times bigger than a normal one
[13:26] <timbobel> though still, they costed just a dollar a piece or something
[13:26] <timbobel> but i dont like ordering so much
[13:26] <juxta> oh right
[13:27] <juxta> I just use regular ones ;p
[13:28] <timbobel> yeah i guess you might as well
[13:28] <timbobel> maybe having a t68i phone in your system isnt a bad idea, juxta?
[13:28] <timbobel> considering legality, you can just turn it on when near the ground?
[13:29] <juxta> yeah - coverage isnt too great here though
[13:29] <timbobel> oh yeah that was it
[13:29] <juxta> it's likely it will land where there is no coverage
[13:29] <timbobel> you could enhance the antenna though?
[13:29] <juxta> sure, but that assumes that when it lands the antenna would be in the correct orientation
[13:29] <timbobel> oh well, maybe youre right. still, it costs e15, and when you use daniels code youre done already.
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[13:30] <juxta> yeah - I've thouhgt about it
[13:30] <timbobel> farnell sells helical antennas :)
[13:30] <juxta> but the NTX2 tracking is really quite good
[13:30] <timbobel> i know i know
[13:31] <juxta> my last balloon we were over 25km away when it landed, and we managed to decode it all the way down to ~180m altitude
[13:31] <timbobel> yeah that's great
[13:32] <timbobel> luckily in holland reception is everywhere
[13:32] <timbobel> but ehm, the CU spacepredictor takes like an hour already
[13:32] <timbobel> rerun it 3 times
[13:33] <juxta> which one are you using timbobel?
[13:36] <timbobel> CU
[13:36] <timbobel> works now
[13:36] <timbobel> just took 5 mins
[13:36] <timbobel> yes it flies to Zie Germanz
[13:37] <juxta> timbobel, there's the older version, then there's jonsowman's fancy new version
[13:37] <juxta> http://hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict is the newer one
[13:39] <timbobel> omg why dont i know about these things
[13:40] <juxta> DanielRichman, how'd you round the inner corners on your GND plane polygon? eagle won't let me mitre them for some reason
[13:41] <DanielRichman> I clicked mitre; set the radius (top left) to 0.1 (I think) and then clicked the corners (rather than the whole clickndrag thing)
[13:42] <juxta> it just dings and doesnt do anything :(
[13:45] <juxta> scratch that - it works on some corners, but not others. grr.
[13:45] <DanielRichman> :(
[13:46] <DanielRichman> The corners have to be perfect
[13:46] <DanielRichman> no kinks within the radius as is sometimes easy to do in eagle
[13:47] <juxta> yeah, i created them by splitting a single line
[13:47] <juxta> so they should be ok :S
[13:48] <juxta> oh well, removed them and recreated and it now works - cheers DanielRichman
[13:58] <timbobel> juxta, what baud is the falcom normally
[13:58] <juxta> some are 9600b, some are 38400
[13:58] <juxta> possibly other baud rates too - but those are what i've seen at least
[13:59] <juxta> search for FSA03 on the wiki, there's some code there for changing the baud rate & setting the module to airborne mode (you must do this)
[14:01] <timbobel> i know i know
[14:02] <timbobel> ehmm so
[14:02] <timbobel> i have hooked up to 3v3, gnd, and the TXL.. though, i cant hear it doing anything really
[14:03] <juxta> hook it up directly to a TTL serial cable and try different baud rates
[14:14] <timbobel> silence its what im hearing from the falcom
[14:18] <timbobel> im out!
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[14:45] <jonsowman_work> to whoever put that location save req in - will do it when I'm home from work, no SSH access to servers at work :)
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[15:12] <fsphil> no ssh? sshesh
[15:13] <m1x10> hey ppl
[15:13] <m1x10> I got a technical question
[15:13] <fsphil> evening m1x10
[15:13] <m1x10> :)
[15:13] <m1x10> assuming a square box payload
[15:14] <m1x10> I cut one corner in a semi-spherical shape
[15:14] <m1x10> and in that place I put a ball
[15:14] <m1x10> How to stack the ball on the styrofam?
[15:14] <m1x10> glue?
[15:15] <m1x10> using some screws... ?
[15:15] <m1x10> any idea?
[15:15] <fsphil> I believe some glues can melt styrofoam .. but I can't be certain on that
[15:17] <m1x10> just like that? or at certain temperature?
[15:19] <m1x10> ok, I found some articles
[15:21] <m1x10> those glues are called "Cyanoacrylates Glues"
[15:21] <m1x10> Zap-O CA+
[15:21] <fsphil> some kind of chemical reaction
[15:22] <russss> cyanoacrylate is otherwise known as superglue :)
[15:22] <m1x10> :p
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[15:22] <m1x10> http://www.kola.gr/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=103&osCsid=117518419a456e0a6a182fafb0e39b31
[15:22] <russss> also solvent-weld glues will melt polystrene
[15:22] <m1x10> its in eng
[15:24] <m1x10> but
[15:25] <m1x10> i want to put the glue between styrofoam and plastic
[15:25] <m1x10> would that matter?
[15:31] <timbobel> jonsowma_work: i turned it in, for sundays launch, thanks
[15:31] <fsphil> you could cut a piece and try it, see if anything bad happens
[15:32] <m1x10> :)
[15:32] <jonsowman_work> timbobel: no problem, will do it this evening :)
[15:33] <fsphil> rockets are cool: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/07/nexus_onearduino_smallsat_satellite.html
[15:35] <m1x10> fsphil, that red/pink tail is exotic !
[15:37] <russss> fsphil: 28k ft? pfft
[15:37] <jonsowman_work> hmm I need to set up an automatic "accept location save request" thing for the predictor
[15:37] <jonsowman_work> bit of php will do it :)
[15:38] <SpeedEvil> Or even jam it in a cookie
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[15:38] <jonsowman_work> yea that would also work
[15:38] <jonsowman_work> I can't keep adding locations indefinitely
[15:38] <jonsowman_work> dropdown will become huge
[15:39] <fsphil> russss, yep but it does it in a few seconds :)
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> Or jam in a geocoder - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> but that's probably overkill
[15:46] <jonsowman_work> yea google maps has a nice geocoding API
[15:46] <jonsowman_work> don't know if it's worth it really
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[17:17] <timbobel> nice link, fsphil.
[17:18] <timbobel> sorry for the extra work, jonsowman. i'd be flattered if you do save it though =)
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[17:30] <Upu> afternoon
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[17:46] <DanielRichman> What makes the Universal Software Radio Peripheral (and indeed, SDRs in general) so expensive?
[17:51] <russss> 1) high-precision low-noise ADC/DACs, and 2) big-ass FPGA to do hardware downsampling
[17:51] <russss> that's basically all the USRP is actually
[17:51] <DanielRichman> so £1000 for 3 chips
[17:51] <russss> yep
[17:52] <DanielRichman> great
[17:52] <DanielRichman> :P
[17:52] <russss> that's it: http://www.olifantasia.com/gnuradio/usrp/files/USRP.jpg
[17:52] <DanielRichman> yeah that's what prompted my question
[17:52] <DanielRichman> I saw the order page along with the picture and was all like :~
[17:52] <russss> so the FPGA alone is something like £200 I think
[17:53] <russss> and I think they have a ton of markup/R&D cost in that.
[17:54] <russss> the USRP2 has a few more chips on it http://szelest.org/GNURadio/USRP2/zdj/USRP2-gora.jpg
[17:54] <russss> but then it's double the price.
[17:54] <DanielRichman> fair enough, I guess. Thanks for the info :)
[17:55] <russss> two London Hackspacers (one being me) have USRPs, so if you want to borrow one then we might be able to arrange something
[17:56] <russss> I hardly ever use mine at the moment, it's an expensive paperweight.
[17:56] <DanielRichman> :O thank you for the offer, but I'm more interested in building one. Having said that, the project is firmly in the "assessing practicality" stage
[17:56] <DanielRichman> hence the question
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[18:06] <timbobel> usrp looks like a homemade arduino
[18:07] Action: timbobel is mounting headers on an ard pro mini. 6 down, 24 to go. :'(
[18:08] <timbobel> newbie question: how much does the clockspeed on an arduino matter
[18:10] <sbasuita> timbobel: matters the same amount as with any other cpu
[18:10] <sbasuita> the higher the clock speed, the faster your program runs
[18:25] <timbobel> ah allright. good. its not like its computating more than 2+2 in my ancient programming style
[18:25] <timbobel> dinnertime
[18:25] <fsphil> I'd love a mini-usrp .. something that could cover a few hundred khz
[18:26] <DanielRichman> softrock?
[18:27] <DanielRichman> http://www.kb9yig.com/ dunno how good they are
[18:27] <DanielRichman> the websites are poor
[18:29] <sbasuita> ham websites are always poor ;)
[18:29] <fsphil> they seem to be limited to whatever the computers sound card can do
[18:29] <fsphil> sbasuita, yea I've noticed that !
[18:30] <DanielRichman> so they use the DAC/ADC of the sound card?
[18:30] <fsphil> seems to, unless there are newer versions and the website is out of date
[18:30] <DanielRichman> interesting; I wonder if a poor/terrible low quality SDR could be constructed using a sound card and a little bit of glue
[18:31] <russss> heh
[18:34] <fsphil> I've always wondered if a 1-bit radio receiver would be possible, using a single pin of an avr to decode the time signal at 60khz
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[18:38] <jcoxon> just been reading up on the new changes to the licence exempt regulations in the UK
[18:38] <jcoxon> found an interesting quote
[18:39] <jcoxon> "The 433.05 to 434.79 MHz band has been internationally designated for use by
[18:39] <jcoxon> industrial, scientific and medical (ISM) applications. In ISM designated bands
[18:39] <jcoxon> radiocommunication services, including amateur radio, must accept harmful
[18:39] <jcoxon> interference from ISM as set out in Article 5.138 of the Radio Regulations 2008"
[18:39] <sbasuita> does ism include our activities?
[18:39] <jcoxon> yes
[18:40] <sbasuita> :)
[18:40] <fsphil> any other changes, like power levels?
[18:40] <jcoxon> we use ISM licence exempt transmitters
[18:40] <jcoxon> oh no actual changes that affect us
[18:40] <jcoxon> just an interesting point is raised
[18:44] <fsphil> that means the 434.650 modules are fine to use, despite the repeaters
[18:44] <jcoxon> yes, but
[18:44] <jcoxon> we should still be nice :-)
[18:45] <fsphil> agreed :)
[18:47] <fsphil> anyone know the type of socket used in china? my hot air station arrived but typically it's not a uk plug
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> I had that problem.
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> I solved it with the aid of an axe.
[18:47] <fsphil> haha
[18:47] <fsphil> I'm tempted, but it might void the warranty
[18:47] <fsphil> though to be fair, I don't fancy shipping it back to china if it does break
[18:48] Action: SpeedEvil ponders the nokia wall charger he has with a lawnmower flex clamped to the pins.
[18:48] <fsphil> euro socket?
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[18:55] <SpeedEvil> it's got round pins spaced at 25mm or so
[19:31] <jonsowman> ping timbobel
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[19:46] <Wild-Wing> hello hows everyone
[19:49] <timbobel> good
[19:49] <jonsowman> hi timbobel
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[20:02] <timbobel> updates updates www.hollandshoogte.nl
[20:03] <jonsowman> timbobel: done your location save req
[20:09] <Randomskk> how's pred doing wrt going mainline?
[20:10] <jonsowman> done nothing on it recently
[20:10] <jonsowman> havent had time :(
[20:10] <timbobel> thanks a lot jonsowman :)
[20:10] <jonsowman> after this week I shall :)
[20:10] <Randomskk> mainly just the time issue?
[20:10] <timbobel> ping juxta
[20:10] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yes
[20:10] <timbobel> juxta u around
[20:10] <jonsowman> timbobel: it's 5am - I doubt it
[20:11] <timbobel> ah right.
[20:13] <timbobel> whats the 1PPS for on the falcom.. it just gives pulses..?
[20:13] <Randomskk> yes
[20:13] <Randomskk> accurate pulses
[20:13] <Randomskk> for syncing clocks
[20:13] <jonsowman> very accurate pulses
[20:14] <timbobel> pfff all my checks with the falcom FSA03 fail!
[20:14] <timbobel> doesnt do anything
[20:14] <timbobel> not even pulses
[20:14] <timbobel> and i had the assembled breakout :'(
[20:14] <DanielRichman> the fsa03 will only pulse when it has a fix
[20:15] <timbobel> would juxta's UBX checks all fail if it doesnt have a fix?
[20:15] <DanielRichman> what is a UBX check?
[20:15] <timbobel> the ublox stuff
[20:17] <DanielRichman> the fsa03 should send NMEA
[20:18] <timbobel> i know but you configure it with the ubx right
[20:18] <DanielRichman> yeah
[20:18] <DanielRichman> but the nmea will be sent if it doesn't have a fix
[20:19] <DanielRichman> and will tell you that it's alive
[20:19] <DanielRichman> so do you see it?
[20:24] <timbobel> FCK yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh its a working
[20:24] <timbobel> you didnt help this time, daniel, but surely you have a very positive influence
[20:25] <timbobel> maybe you should be a mental coach
[20:26] <jonsowman> :\
[20:26] <jonsowman> yes
[20:27] <Upu> evening all
[20:27] <Upu> I have questions :)
[20:28] <jonsowman> fire away
[20:28] <Upu> oh firstly the issue last night with the Arduino and rounding, when you Serial.println a float it rounds it to 2 dp but the data in the float retains its precision. Which is annoying but there you go.
[20:28] <Upu> $$AVA,297,19:34:00, 53.7523,-1.8179
[20:28] <Randomskk> you can tell it what to round to
[20:28] <Randomskk> it's like the second argument to printf
[20:29] <Upu> ok cool
[20:29] <Randomskk> I mean serial.print
[20:29] <Upu> I'll look into that, I have the numbers I want now anyway
[20:29] <Upu> that telemtry stringh
[20:29] <Upu> is it usable with the space before the 53 ?
[20:29] <Upu> spelling
[20:30] <Randomskk> avoid if you can
[20:30] <Randomskk> put '0' if it's a negative thing
[20:30] <Randomskk> 053 is better
[20:30] <Upu> so no + ?
[20:30] <Randomskk> plus is unusual
[20:31] <Upu> ok I'll put '0'
[20:31] <Upu> Secondly I'm getting to the point where I'm going to start playing with the radio.
[20:31] <Upu> I fully intend to buy a transiever so I can track my own balloon and assist everyone else
[20:32] <Upu> What should I be looking at and what kit do I need from the radio point of view
[20:32] <Randomskk> probably a yaesu ft817 transceiver and a 434mhz yagi
[20:32] <Randomskk> you can make your own yagi but they're not that expensive either
[20:32] <Upu> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/yaesu-ft817nd-transceiver-p-348.html?osCsid=64f1baa3b074168a3500e80dac6c693a
[20:32] <jonsowman> as above
[20:33] <timbobel> upu, didnt you see daniels comments about the serialprint?
[20:33] <timbobel> he had something figured out
[20:33] <Upu> last night ? or today ?
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[20:34] <timbobel> [13:32:42] <DanielRichman> this is the definition for the print() function that prints doubles:
[20:34] <timbobel> [13:32:42] <DanielRichman> void print(double, int = 2);
[20:34] <timbobel> [13:32:52] <DanielRichman> the second parameter is called "digits" and there it is defaulting to 2pd
[20:34] <timbobel> [13:32:54] <DanielRichman> *dp
[20:34] <timbobel> [13:33:10] <DanielRichman> so you can Serial.print(myfloat, 4) to rediscover the precision you missed
[20:34] <timbobel> thats all he said
[20:34] <Upu> oh nice one
[20:34] <timbobel> i recon he'd be back shortly though
[20:34] <Upu> that would have made yesterday easier
[20:34] Action: DanielRichman waves
[20:34] <Upu> hi :)
[20:35] <DanielRichman> yeah I pinged you beacuse I found that stuff and PM'd timbobel forgetting that it was actually you that asked the question
[20:35] <Upu> I thought I was loosing some digits somewhere it was only when I turned them all into ints I saw the info was still there
[20:35] <Upu> anyway it's working nicely now
[20:35] <DanielRichman> aah good, you're better off with them as ints
[20:35] <DanielRichman> floats = bloat
[20:35] <Randomskk> well hey
[20:36] <Randomskk> depends on word length
[20:36] <DanielRichman> on the avr.
[20:36] <Randomskk> yea
[20:36] <Upu> So anyone got a preferred supplier for the radio and antennas ?
[20:36] <jonsowman> radioworld are good
[20:36] <jonsowman> not the cheapest P&P though
[20:36] <jonsowman> where are you based?
[20:36] <Randomskk> ml&s too but radioworld are cheaper
[20:36] <Randomskk> ebay too
[20:37] <Upu> there is an 817 on Ebay for £100 less but ... 1) Ebay.
[20:37] <Upu> back in 1 min
[20:38] <fsphil> SpeedEvil, is it you with the kada hot air station?
[20:38] <DanielRichman> He's based near Halifax
[20:39] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: right
[20:39] <DanielRichman> so quite a way from ml&s
[20:39] <DanielRichman> nearer rjh, no?
[20:39] <Upu> Halifax
[20:39] <Upu> yes about 30 mins from him
[20:40] <Upu> so I guess when a there is a balloon up in the air I need to be outside pointing the Yagi in the general direction ?
[20:41] <DanielRichman> not really
[20:41] <DanielRichman> if it's not your balloon then a whip will do
[20:41] <DanielRichman> (most of the time)
[20:41] <DanielRichman> that said those with the massive yagis clock up more sentences on the trackers
[20:42] <DanielRichman> we should make it competetitive
[20:42] <Upu> lol
[20:42] <Randomskk> there are plans to
[20:42] <Upu> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/20921-tonna-70cm-434mhz-yagi-p-2325.html?osCsid=64f1baa3b074168a3500e80dac6c693a
[20:42] <Upu> not exactly portable :)
[20:43] <Randomskk> awesome
[20:43] <jonsowman> Upu: http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/a430s10r-diamond-430440mhz-70cm-yagi-p-3962.html?osCsid=64f1baa3b074168a3500e80dac6c693a
[20:43] <Upu> cheers
[20:43] <jonsowman> collapses neatly :)
[20:44] <jonsowman> like this:
[20:44] <jonsowman> http://balloon.hexoc.com/gallery/apex-ii/index.php/Antennas/photo2
[20:44] <timbobel> FSA: after 15 minutes it finally locked on; yeah
[20:44] <DanielRichman> are you in a lead lined bunker or something?
[20:44] <Upu> smart
[20:44] <timbobel> i live in a faraday cage
[20:44] <fsphil> that little diamond yagi is neat
[20:44] <timbobel> 11el?
[20:45] <Upu> and a whip antenna that's just a straight one isn't it ?
[20:45] <jonsowman> indeed
[20:45] <DanielRichman> we should make an open source easy-to-build track-a-tron
[20:45] <timbobel> why would i want the GPVTG sentence?
[20:45] <Upu> does the whip need to be of a certain lenght ?
[20:45] <DanielRichman> timbobel: vector/speed info iirc
[20:46] <jonsowman> Upu: yes, though you can get multi-band whips
[20:46] <timbobel> ah dont care about that
[20:47] <Upu> I have an old TV aerial mast I might pull down and put something up there
[20:47] <jonsowman> put a trackatron up there
[20:47] <jonsowman> that'd be awesome
[20:47] <Upu> that a motorised yagi ?
[20:47] <jonsowman> yeh
[20:47] <Upu> I'll add to my to do list :)
[20:48] <fsphil> I'm up for building one if someone can get me the plans
[20:48] <Upu> I'm fairly high up as well
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: yes
[20:48] <fsphil> SpeedEvil, when it says to remove two screws which ones does it mean?
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> umm
[20:48] <fsphil> (the manual that is)
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> I think htere are two screws on the top
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> they secure the pump for transport
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> it's been a while
[20:49] <Upu> well if you get details for a tracking Yagi, preferably one that looks half professional so the wife won't complain too much let me know
[20:50] <DanielRichman> well I was thinking that commerical rotators for antennae are very expensive surely we can do better
[20:50] <DanielRichman> (and they're almost all 1-axis?)
[20:50] <fsphil> I've just got a handle on the top, and there's four screws on the bottom (two small, two big)
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: umm
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Sorry - it's been a while since I unpacked it
[20:51] <fsphil> SpeedEvil, understandable :) no worries
[20:52] <fsphil> I didn't get a manual with it, and turned it on... thing nearly walked off the desk
[20:52] <fsphil> hopefully no damage
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> I'd remove the lid
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quGs3q9nsA8
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> see that
[20:57] <Upu> I am 255meters ASL :)
[20:57] <Upu> sorry small victories with this stuff :)
[21:04] <fsphil> nice SpeedEvil, the two big screws from the looks of it
[21:04] <fsphil> that's a good altitude Upu, where abouts are you?
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> My altitude at my datum is 106.2m. Been averaging for a week.
[21:07] <fsphil> gps tells me I'm between 100 and 80m
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> Interesting. 95% of points are within +-9m elevation. I'd have thought it'd be worse
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> 50% within +-2m
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[21:17] <fsphil> middle two it was SpeedEvil, seems to be working now
[21:17] <fsphil> okie last question, cause the manual is useless -- what's the difference between A + B heater
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> you mean the two knobs?
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> one is hot air, one is iron
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> the other is airflow
[21:22] <DanielRichman> fsphil: how big are the jpegs generated by that usart camera in full?
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[21:24] <LazyLeopard> oooops
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[21:26] <fsphil> yay
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[21:27] <sbasuita> freenode is a mess
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[21:28] <jonsowman> oh dear
[21:28] <jonsowman> fsphil: er?
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[21:32] Action: fsphil waits for it
[21:32] <jonsowman> fsphil: haha
[21:32] <jonsowman> they are all doomed
[21:34] <Wild-Wing> what the fuck
[21:34] <Wild-Wing> that is a bad connectivity issue
[21:34] <jonsowman> lol freenode
[21:36] <Wild-Wing> i guess thats what happens when its free lol
[21:36] <jonsowman> nah its normally alright
[21:36] <jonsowman> there are much worse ones
[21:37] <fsphil> yea this is pretty good compared to what I've used in the past
[21:37] <jonsowman> freenode had ddos issues a while back
[21:37] <jonsowman> netsplits every few minutes for a while
[21:37] <fsphil> this is the first bad split I've seen here
[21:37] <LazyLeopard> It's been a while...
[21:37] <fsphil> more like a net quake than a net split though :)
[21:38] <jonsowman> yea that was bad
[21:38] <fsphil> wb LazyLeopard :)
[21:38] <LazyLeopard> Other nets split more often...
[21:39] <LazyLeopard> FreeNode's not been bad of late... until just now...
[21:39] <jonsowman> yeh it's pretty decent really
[21:42] <DanielRichman> fsphil: how big are the jpegs generated by that usart camera in full?
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[21:45] <fsphil> DanielRichman, in 320x240 they vary between 4k and 12k depending on the detail
[21:45] <fsphil> I've only used it a couple of times at 640x480 and those images where about 25k
[21:47] <fsphil> if you had some processing power and memory, could probably optimise the huffman tables, save about 5 or 10%
[21:47] <DanielRichman> I see
[21:48] <DanielRichman> cool thanks ;)
[21:50] <DanielRichman> I think I will take a photo and store it on the SD card and then read it back to send hte SSTV
[21:51] <fsphil> what kind of computer?
[21:51] <DanielRichman> avr
[21:52] <fsphil> you'll probably want the raw images, unless you have a jpeg decoder for the avr?
[21:52] <DanielRichman> yeah
[21:52] <DanielRichman> I was wondering if the jpges were small enough to practically fit into ram but apparently not
[21:52] <DanielRichman> and if I'm going to hold it on the sd card then I may as well go for raw
[21:52] <fsphil> nope, I thought about that too
[21:53] <fsphil> the raw data is 16-bit, so 2 bytes per pixel
[21:53] <DanielRichman> ahh at 3 bytes per pixel I calculated ~250KB but that's a bit better
[21:53] <DanielRichman> so 6bits/color?
[21:54] <fsphil> 565 .. red and blue have 5 bits, green has 6
[21:54] <DanielRichman> I see
[21:55] <timbobel> i make one program: NTX2 is at 400khz carrier shift.. i make another, and its at 200...
[21:55] <timbobel> ehm?
[21:57] <fsphil> DanielRichman, in raw mode it dumps the images in one go - if the baud rate is set so that it's just ahead of the sstv scan, you might be able to tx without storing it
[21:57] <DanielRichman> a possibility indeed. Let me think about ze numbers
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[22:07] <DanielRichman> so at 2bytes per pixel; 320*240*2 = 153600bytes; 10bits per rs232 byte; 153600. Martin 1 takes 114s. Therefore the "ideal baud" would be 13473bits per second. At 14400bps that data would instead take 106s after which there would be ~8% or 12KB in a "buffer".
[22:08] <DanielRichman> with this one, however: http://www.active-robots.com/products/sensors/sparkfun/cmos-1.shtml
[22:08] <DanielRichman> it has a data+i2c interface which means that commands and status is done over i2c
[22:08] <timbobel> oh i see the problem here. i had delivered 22 ohm's instead of 22K-ohms
[22:09] <DanielRichman> and data is transfered over paralell controlled by clock that you supply to the device. I don't know how tolerant it would be of varying the clock speed but in theory that would solve the problem
[22:10] <DanielRichman> I don't have enough spare IO to use that so I'd have to use yet ANOTHER core
[22:11] <DanielRichman> sbasuita: do you think there's any point bothering saving all the 1.3MPix shots to the sd card?
[22:12] <DanielRichman> extra complexity for pictures that are poor for ones on an sd card if we're flying proper cameras
[22:12] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: no point saving the crappy quality pics when we have proper cameras
[22:13] <DanielRichman> the only point I can think of is selection and retransmission
[22:13] <DanielRichman> but that's not really going to have much benefit, is it?
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[22:22] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: no not really
[22:22] <DanielRichman> hmm ok two options
[22:23] <DanielRichman> http://www.active-robots.com/products/sensors/sparkfun/jpeg-colour-camera-uart-interface.shtml £38, connect to a serial pin that've broken out on the alien2 board & add a dataflash chip on the spi for temporary storage
[22:23] <DanielRichman> http://www.active-robots.com/products/sensors/sparkfun/cmos-1.shtml £8 add two regulators, atmega (+ garbage to make it work) + dataflash on stripboard to make it work
[22:24] <DanielRichman> cost of garbage... perhaps £10 + extra _effort_
[22:24] <DanielRichman> sbasuita: what do you think?
[22:25] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: don't we want to do our own compression for sstv?
[22:25] <sbasuita> something with more redundancy
[22:25] <DanielRichman> well we want to stick to the standards so that everyone can decode
[22:25] <DanielRichman> sstv is unlike jpeg in that if you get a snowstorm in the middle you get a fuzzy image, not a broken one
[22:26] <DanielRichman> sbasuita: are you familiar with how sstv works?
[22:26] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: not rally
[22:26] <DanielRichman> it's not digital (well there's a small header identifying the mode)
[22:26] <sbasuita> ah right
[22:26] <DanielRichman> after that a certain frequency corresponds to white, and another to black
[22:26] <DanielRichman> and in between grey
[22:27] <fsphil> hopefully my changes should make the digital image tolerant of dropped packets
[22:27] <DanielRichman> (or intensity for each colour in rgb modes)
[22:27] <DanielRichman> sbasuita: http://i.imgur.com/SzrNU.png
[22:27] <DanielRichman> it's only massivly pixellated because I couldn't fit 256k inside 128k of flash memory
[22:27] <DanielRichman> so it's just an upscaled 32x24 bitmap, but if I had the memoriez then that would have been a proper sstv image
[22:28] <sbasuita> i guess the image format doesn't matter then
[22:28] <sbasuita> just go for the prebuilt option
[22:28] <DanielRichman> on a faster clock (that was 2mhz, we'll be using 8mhz) the slant will fix itself too
[22:28] <sbasuita> we've got plenty of school cash
[22:28] <DanielRichman> sbasuita: ok. BTW; I went on an electronic component shopping spree today.
[22:28] <DanielRichman> it got dispatched a few hours ago
[22:28] <DanielRichman> once th ey arrive Ill be laying out the resistors and stuff against a laserjet printed version of our PCB to make sure all the footprints line up
[22:28] <DanielRichman> then I'll send off to get the pcb made
[22:29] <DanielRichman> and finally I'll embarass myself with my inability to solder SMDs :X
[22:29] <fsphil> order spare pcbs :)
[22:29] <DanielRichman> and spare components; yeah I am
[22:30] tydeas (~dmtrsslvd@79.103.132.32.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[22:30] <tydeas> hi ppl
[22:30] <DanielRichman> also the lack of supply of the atxmegaa4s that I want doesn't actually appear to be farnell's fault
[22:30] <DanielRichman> I think atmel have messed up; absolutely nobody has them
[22:30] <DanielRichman> except for an obscure german company that only accepts bank transfer
[22:30] <fsphil> ooch
[22:31] <DanielRichman> freaking annoying
[22:31] <fsphil> hi tydeas
[22:31] <jonsowman> hi tydeas
[22:31] <DanielRichman> hey tydeas :P
[22:31] <tydeas> friend of m1x10
[22:32] <tydeas> not relevant to project, told me good ppl hang around here so one more join after freenode connection
[22:32] <tydeas> told me to check a predictor in the web
[22:32] <tydeas> but not supplied my with url
[22:32] <tydeas> can anybody share?
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[22:33] <jonsowman> http://hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict/
[22:33] <jonsowman> I assume that's what's being referred to :)
[22:34] <DanielRichman> fsphil: does http://www.active-robots.com/products/sensors/sparkfun/jpeg-colour-camera-uart-interface.shtml come with a cable?
[22:34] <tydeas> jonsowman: github repo site?
[22:34] <fsphil> DanielRichman, mine did
[22:34] <DanielRichman> sparkfun?
[22:35] <jonsowman> tydeas: http://github.com/jonsowman/cusf-standalone-predictor
[22:35] <DanielRichman> or did you order from there too?
[22:35] <fsphil> I got it directly from sparkfun.
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[22:36] <fsphil> says on that page it comes with the cable
[22:36] <fsphil> "...and a 4-wire cable that mates with the camera module"
[22:36] <DanielRichman> ohright sorry :P
[22:37] <DanielRichman> eeeh The product was not added because the SKU could not be found. Please notify the merchant.
[22:38] <tydeas> jonsowman: use NERDTree in vim?
[22:38] <jonsowman> tydeas: I don't really use it much
[22:38] <jonsowman> occasionally :)
[22:38] <tydeas> ah cause I check your repos and a relevant repo is http://github.com/scrooloose/vimfiles
[22:39] <fsphil> DanielRichman, got that here too. cool components have a compatible camera, same chipset but a bit bigger
[22:39] <DanielRichman> cool (hurr); I'll go have a look
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[22:41] <jonsowman> bedtime - night guys
[22:41] <fsphil> night jonsowman
[22:42] <jonsowman> see you fsphil :)
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[22:45] <DanielRichman> sbasuita: is there anything other than a camera that we might want from http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/ ?
[22:45] <DanielRichman> there's a link on the wave to a website which Alex was looking at for lots of sensors
[22:47] <DanielRichman> sbasuita: http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45&products_id=369
[22:49] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: just skimmed through that site, nothing particularly caught my eye
[22:49] <DanielRichman> okey
[22:49] <DanielRichman> there's no rush though since they won't exactly be dispatching it today
[22:49] <DanielRichman> so I'll chill until tomorrow and instead go and select myself a dataflash chip
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[22:50] <Randomskk> why not use sd?
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[22:50] <DanielRichman> it's a pain in the ass to use
[22:50] <Randomskk> I mean, I don't know, it's not like I've used either in this capacity but it seems a microsd socket doesn't take much more space, still talks over spi, and is easy to read afterwards
[22:50] <Randomskk> eh
[22:50] <Randomskk> the whole filesystem thing?
[22:50] <DanielRichman> you have to read and write in 512 byte blocks
[22:50] <Randomskk> ah
[22:51] <DanielRichman> I could use it I suppose
[22:51] <DanielRichman> it would make the logging code more complex with the jumping-around the card, but that's not the end of the world
[22:52] <DanielRichman> if a dataflash chip is £1 though I guess it's easier to pararellise gps logging & sending sstv
[22:52] <Randomskk> yea, if it works may as well use it tbh
[22:53] <m1x10> tydeas hi !
[22:53] <fsphil> night all :)
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[22:55] <m1x10> gnite all !
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[23:07] <gonzo_3> If you are using a PAL camera for your SSTV source, there are text in picture units avail athe take NMEA GPS and paster a lat long in the video.
[23:07] Nick change: gonzo_3 -> gonzo_
[23:08] <DanielRichman> yeah since Martin 1 is 320x256 (effectivly) and the camera is 320x240 we will be putting the lat&lon&time in t he remaing 16 rows
[23:09] <DanielRichman> maybe even the temperature for phun
[23:09] <DanielRichman> or a message
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[23:38] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: is there an eagle library with all/lots of the ST Microcontroller chips?
[23:38] <Randomskk> some
[23:38] <Randomskk> st and stm32 and others
[23:38] <Randomskk> but, like
[23:38] <Randomskk> ref-packages has the footprints
[23:38] <Randomskk> make your own schematic
[23:38] <Randomskk> doesn't take long
[23:38] <DanielRichman> yeah that's what I did for the xmegas :)
[23:39] <DanielRichman> must remember to put them on git.
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[23:42] <Randomskk> I can't wait to get paid and finish work, I wanna do a hab payload >.>
[23:42] <Randomskk> then I can stop talking out my ass while everyone else designs them
[23:44] <DanielRichman> :o
[23:45] <Randomskk> well I'm not counting ferret
[23:45] <Randomskk> we didn't program ferret and it was literally a radio and a gps on some stripboard >.>
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> It counts!
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> Just.
[23:46] <Randomskk> it kind-of worked
[23:46] <DanielRichman> ferret programmed itself; it only learnt to tell us where it was at 20k
[23:46] <Randomskk> at least we fixed the meridian bug
[23:46] <Randomskk> the second time
[23:46] <Randomskk> but then it did other shit
[23:46] <Randomskk> and 24k cutoff anyway
[23:47] <DanielRichman> where are you working?
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[23:49] <Randomskk> well
[23:49] <Randomskk> amusing story there
[23:49] <Randomskk> my old company went from everything good and normal when I left on tuesday to shutting down as fast as possible wednesday
[23:49] <Randomskk> but I got a job at a new company the same day
[23:50] <Randomskk> so now I'm working at a company that does cellular connectivity - deploying things that talk back over gsm/gprs
[23:50] <DanielRichman> is it fun?
[23:50] <Randomskk> I started today
[23:50] <Randomskk> so far, so good, but I've not really done anything
[23:50] <DanielRichman> well, was the old one fun, while it lasted?
[23:50] <Randomskk> they do everything from circuit board design and firmware programming for embedded systems to the user frontend web apps for viewing the data, but mainly focus on the connectivity in between - running their own apn and stuff
[23:51] <Randomskk> the old one was good, I was writing interesting and actually used C++ (it was the core of a demo we were ready to deliver to a big company) for a guy who insisted on decent code
[23:51] <DanielRichman> aah, that's a plus
[23:51] <Randomskk> so it had complete test coverage, was properly designed and written, we used all these agile things, he used git and all that
[23:52] <Randomskk> the new company don't seem to care as much so long as it does the job, and they use subversion over mounted samba shares and my work is in PHP at the moment
[23:52] <DanielRichman> yeah I've met the latter approch to version control :P but php.. eww
[23:53] <Randomskk> I know right
[23:53] <Randomskk> and zend studio, server and framework
[23:53] <Randomskk> but I can actually pick anything I want if I get the job done
[23:53] <DanielRichman> oh it gets worse
[23:53] <Randomskk> so I might use symphony framework
[23:53] <Randomskk> they are relatively sure they want me on zend but I'll try it for a few days and see
[23:53] <Randomskk> I'm unconvinced
[23:53] <Randomskk> I don't have a choice with svn but git-svn exists
[23:54] <DanielRichman> svn just seems old now
[23:54] <DanielRichman> I suppose it's not too bad over a LAN
[23:54] <Randomskk> thing is
[23:54] <Randomskk> and the guy is open to discussion and has good points
[23:55] <Randomskk> thing is, svn works well in a small office, with a few programmers who communicate anyway and are working on mostly totally separate things
[23:55] <Randomskk> all committing to one central repo
[23:55] <Randomskk> when several of them are windows users writing code casually more as ideas people, and want tortoisesvn
[23:55] <DanielRichman> sounds like it's going to get messy
[23:56] <Randomskk> personally I think git works better anyway and can model the same thing
[23:56] <Randomskk> though the one thing svn does make a bit easier is checking out just a part of a repository
[23:56] <DanielRichman> yeah git is just a nicer design
[23:56] <Randomskk> also CentOS
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[23:56] <DanielRichman> it could have been arch
[23:56] <Randomskk> CentOS!
[23:56] <DanielRichman> CentOS?
[23:56] <Randomskk> so that code I write would be binary-compatible with RHEL on the server
[23:57] <DanielRichman> RHEL!
[23:57] <DanielRichman> yuck
[23:57] <Randomskk> I don't think I have to touch that, maybe
[23:57] <Randomskk> probably though
[23:57] <Randomskk> maybe I'll just try and do lots of embedded :D
[23:58] <DanielRichman> well atleast it's not MSSQL
[23:58] <DanielRichman> have you ever tried to use that?
[23:59] <Randomskk> mysql
[23:59] <Randomskk> but zend framework has no ORM
[23:59] <Randomskk> so it's hand written SQL
[23:59] <Randomskk> what.
[23:59] <Randomskk> it has a MVC pattern
[23:59] <Randomskk> but no ORM
[00:00] --- Wed Jul 28 2010