highaltitude.log.20100724

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[00:04] <jcoxon> hehe i'm reading hte sparkfun hab guide
[00:05] <jcoxon> pretty good guide
[00:08] <RocketBoy> yeah its all getting a bit Passé Now
[00:08] <jcoxon> hehe
[00:09] <jcoxon> we are still pushing the boundaries :-p
[00:09] <SpeedEvil> To infinity and beyond!
[00:10] <jcoxon> exactly!
[00:10] <RocketBoy> yeah we need to do new stuff - like BH - more data less photos.
[00:11] <SpeedEvil> Or stabilised photos - at least somewhat
[00:11] <SpeedEvil> could be interesting
[00:11] <jcoxon> i've only got 4 more days in london - eek
[00:11] <RocketBoy> ah - yes - a move to the south coast wasn't it?
[00:12] <jcoxon> yeah
[00:13] <jcoxon> so much to do :-)
[00:13] <jcoxon> unfortunately my new house i'm renting I can't move in till 10th Aug so not properly moving
[00:17] <jcoxon> night all
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[00:18] <RocketBoy> yeah nights
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[01:55] Nick change: TraumaPwny -> TraumaPony
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[08:47] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:58] <Upu> morning
[08:58] <jcoxon> hey Upu
[08:58] <Upu> So GPS :)
[08:58] <Upu> I sat in the garden last night for 15 mins
[08:58] <Upu> $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,*1E
[08:58] <Upu> is all I get
[08:59] <Upu> now I know I've shot myself in the foot by going to a GPS chip no one has used
[08:59] <jcoxon> hehe, whats the gps?
[08:59] <Upu> but am I missing something really silly ?
[08:59] <Upu> Inventek ISM300 High Altitude build
[08:59] <jcoxon> oh thats well tested
[09:00] <Upu> there is a GPS engine on/off but it is reporting as power to the GPS engine
[09:00] <Upu> oh people used it before ?
[09:00] <jcoxon> not on this channel but WB8ELK has
[09:00] <jcoxon> i think he always uses it
[09:01] <Upu> does he come on here go by another name ?
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[09:01] <jcoxon> he doesn't come on here
[09:01] <jcoxon> as much as i try and persuade him
[09:01] <Upu> :)
[09:01] <jcoxon> Upu, so the GPGSA suggests no sats at all
[09:01] <jcoxon> i'd first look at your antennas as the problem source
[09:01] <Upu> yup and thats my issue because I know they are up there :)
[09:02] <Upu> using the active patch antenna
[09:02] <Upu> from Inventek
[09:02] <Upu> which is plugged in
[09:02] <Upu> tried it in different orientations
[09:02] <juxta_> hi all
[09:02] <Upu> morning juxta
[09:02] <jcoxon> Upu, how about trying to ground the antenna a bit
[09:03] <Upu> hmm never thought about that
[09:03] <jcoxon> with some foil
[09:03] <jcoxon> did that with my lassen
[09:03] <Upu> I'll give it a shot and let you know
[09:03] <Upu> is WB8ELK contactable anywhere ?
[09:03] <juxta_> that helped a lot on my lassen
[09:04] <jcoxon> should be an email addresss there
[09:04] <jcoxon> good time to contact him today - he'll be watching GPSL from hom
[09:04] <jcoxon> e
[09:05] <Upu> great stuff thanks very much
[09:05] <jcoxon> no problem, glad to be able to help - even a little :-)
[09:06] <jcoxon> Upu, also i recommend you don't have anything touching the actual patch antenna - they desensitise very easily
[09:06] <Upu> I put it on a table away from everything
[09:07] <jcoxon> and it may take up to an hour to get sats if it needs to download the ephiremis thingy
[09:07] <Upu> actually 1 moment
[09:08] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/IMG_0081.JPG
[09:08] <Upu> an hour ?
[09:08] <Upu> oh
[09:08] <jcoxon> Upu, that antenna is upside down
[09:08] <jcoxon> :-p
[09:08] <Upu> haha
[09:08] <juxta_> worst case scenario, it can be quite a while
[09:08] <Upu> my next question
[09:08] <Upu> was
[09:08] <jcoxon> ceramic bit is up
[09:08] <Upu> is that the right way up lol
[09:09] <Upu> lol ok back soon
[09:09] <jcoxon> cya
[09:09] <Upu> in my defense I did try it the right way up as well but thx for confirmaiton :)
[09:09] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:09] <juxta_> jcoxon: is it much work to add an XML file to the listener?
[09:09] <jcoxon> looks a good module though
[09:09] <jcoxon> juxta_, not really
[09:10] <jcoxon> depends if hte xml is ready :-p
[09:10] <jcoxon> or similar to another
[09:10] <juxta_> that picture is still loading here, my connection is sub 56k
[09:11] <juxta_> I'll write it up jcoxon, it'll be very similar to horus
[09:11] <juxta_> just minus temperatures I think
[09:11] <juxta_> there's a team in Sydney who have been in touch quite a bit, they're hoping to launch around the end of July
[09:12] <jcoxon> okay cool
[09:12] <juxta_> assuming all goes to plan that is
[09:12] <Upu> ok its running in the Window with the patch the right way up so I'll leave it for an hour or so
[09:12] <jcoxon> ping russss
[09:13] <jcoxon> Upu, okay - good luck!
[09:13] <Upu> thx :)
[09:13] <juxta_> as they dont have any radios to test telemetry
[09:13] <Upu> I got a spare if this one is borked
[09:13] <Upu> anyway thx afk o7
[09:13] <jcoxon> juxta_, no radio hams they can get in contact
[09:13] <jcoxon> ?
[09:13] <jcoxon> who can lend?
[09:14] <juxta_> I put together a shield for an arduino for them with an FSA03 module, they etched it and soldered it up, now we just need to see if it works
[09:14] <jcoxon> spacenear.us and dl-fldigi got presented to the GPSL conference yesterday apaprently
[09:14] <jcoxon> juxta_, oh i'm going to do a pcb for the fsa03 soon
[09:14] <jcoxon> like my lassen one
[09:14] <juxta_> Upu: it might have a hard time in the window, I left mine by the window for ages and ages (upstairs, looking out with a very clear view) and it got no sats - worked well outside though
[09:14] <jcoxon> though won't be designing it till august - to much to do right now
[09:15] <jcoxon> juxta_, tis a sirf III though so might cope
[09:16] <juxta_> oh righto, perhaps as it's a sirfIII
[09:16] <juxta_> though even my ublox didnt like it
[09:16] <jcoxon> i think you live in a gps black spot
[09:16] <jcoxon> :-p
[09:17] <juxta_> jcoxon: that would be cool- I was thinking of doing an arduino shield and having a few made a goldphoenix
[09:17] <juxta_> also, I keep meaning to ask you if you have any spare ntx2's at 434.075, as i'd like to make a beacon on a different frequency
[09:18] <jcoxon> juxta_, i need to put in an order - shall i get you 2 and post them to you?
[09:18] <jcoxon> as i'm not out of them
[09:18] <jcoxon> juxta_, i've got 3 pcbs in my head - a new Atlas board, a fsa03 pcb and a beacon pcb
[09:19] <jcoxon> the beacon pcb is a ntx2, attiny and a temp sensor
[09:19] <jcoxon> which will fit on the back of a 3xAA battery pack
[09:21] <jcoxon> perhaps something we can work on together - unless you had another plan
[09:23] <juxta_> nice
[09:24] <juxta_> that would be handy
[09:24] <juxta_> i got a cheapo laminator the other day and modified it to heat hotter than normal, it gives very good results for toner transfer etching boards
[09:25] <jcoxon> i was going to have a play with an attiny today at the hackspace if its open
[09:25] <jcoxon> won't be making the boards for a little while
[09:26] <juxta_> as for the ntx's jcoxon, 2 sounds good - what are they worth?
[09:26] <jcoxon> about ?13
[09:27] <jcoxon> each that is
[09:28] <juxta_> sounds good jcoxon
[09:28] <juxta_> i need to get a decent avr programmer though
[09:29] <fsphil> sparkfun have a lovely little avr programmer, usb in a 25-pin d housing
[09:30] <jcoxon> juxta_, apparently bus pirates are good
[09:30] <jcoxon> as they let you do lots of things
[09:31] <juxta_> I should have some Chinese balloons here soon, will be interesting to see how well they perform
[09:32] <jcoxon> yeah, reckon rocketboy would be interested - perhaps a new supplier
[09:32] <juxta_> wow, the last 10 messages just arrived together in the space of about 1 second
[09:33] <juxta_> this is a *very* slow connection
[09:33] <fsphil> is this you're home connection juxta_ ?
[09:33] <juxta_> thanks fsphil, will have a look
[09:33] <fsphil> -' -e
[09:33] <juxta_> haha, thankfully not!
[09:34] <juxta_> i'm using a mobile broadband service
[09:34] <juxta_> in a GSM only area
[09:34] <fsphil> ah in that care you're doing well
[09:35] <juxta_> if the Chinese balloons work well they'd def be worth a look at jcoxon, the pricing is very good
[09:35] <juxta_> ~$20usd for a 1000g balloon
[09:35] <jcoxon> fingers crossed on the quality
[09:36] <juxta_> hehe, yeah
[09:36] <juxta_> the price jumps up a bit for the bigger ones
[09:36] <juxta_> 2kg is about $75usd I think
[09:36] <juxta_> also waiting on a quote from an Indian manufacturer
[09:36] <fsphil> that's brilliant
[09:37] <fsphil> now if only someone could figure out how to make helium cheaply
[09:37] <juxta_> heh
[09:37] <juxta_> ask Rob, I think he has that taken care of ;)
[09:38] <fsphil> ping jonsowman
[09:38] <juxta_> I finally managed to get the sales manager's email address at the place we buy gas from
[09:38] <juxta_> will see if they are interested in helping us out
[09:39] <juxta_> jcoxon: re the Sydney guys, they dont think they have any hams that can help them test
[09:39] <fsphil> the guy I was talking to at the local boc dealer suggested I find someone who already has a boc account, as they're likely to have a good discount
[09:39] <juxta_> they're planning on coming over and launching from our site here
[09:41] <juxta_> fsphil: yeah, here you can't normally buy without an account. they're nice to us though and let us buy anyway, and give us about 35% off - so I'm in two minds about asking for sponsorship by gas supply etc
[09:56] <fsphil> jonsowman, disregard earlier ping -- I can't reproduce the glitch .. again :)
[09:58] <fsphil> prediction for the first potential flight day: http://www.hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict/#!/uuid=6319d6ea536f1de424cc3ff609831b31168c226d
[09:58] <fsphil> It's a bit close to Newry, a pretty big town
[10:06] <fsphil> emailing the CAA, still haven't heard from them so I wouldn't be able to launch even if I was ready or it wasn't landing near a bit town :)
[10:07] <jcoxon> hehe
[10:07] <jcoxon> the joys of the CAA
[10:07] <fsphil> ah nuts: "I am now out of the office and do not return until Thursday 29 July 2010."
[10:07] <fsphil> there goes that flight :)
[10:08] <fsphil> IAA are much much worse. I have the contacts office and mobile number, neither he ever answers
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[10:19] <rharrison> morning mr coxon
[10:19] <jcoxon> hey rharrison
[10:19] <rharrison> How is the wonderful world of HAB going
[10:19] <jcoxon> not sure
[10:19] <jcoxon> i've been on holiday as well
[10:19] <rharrison> No ones sending anything towards mid france?
[10:19] <rharrison> Heh
[10:19] <rharrison> e
[10:19] <rharrison> Cool where are you
[10:19] <jcoxon> just got back from italy
[10:20] <jcoxon> last night
[10:20] <rharrison> Nice
[10:20] <jcoxon> hows france?
[10:20] <rharrison> Sunny and I'm sitting by the pool watching the kids swim
[10:20] <rharrison> Could be worse
[10:21] <jcoxon> hehe
[10:22] <rharrison> I should have brought a balloon with me
[10:22] <rharrison> The wx has been grate
[10:22] <rharrison> great even
[10:23] <jcoxon> yeah it was very hot in italy
[10:23] <jcoxon> a little too hot
[10:23] <rharrison> Yep I can imagine it's warm enough heer
[10:23] <rharrison> here
[10:25] <rharrison> I have been invited to York university to discuss rolling out HAB into the science curriculum in the Yorshire & Humberside region
[10:25] <jcoxon> oh wow
[10:26] <rharrison> I'm hoping to reduce the CAA work by focusing aroung Elvington for lauches assuming permission eventually comes through
[10:26] <rharrison> Will all kick off in September when the teachers get back
[10:28] <rharrison> I'm also off to Electronica (Germany) in November with Farnell they are even going to pay for my time off work which is nice and they are going to be setting me up with a stand to talk about HAB as well as giving me a slot to do a talk
[10:28] <jcoxon> :-)
[10:29] <rharrison> So there is quite a bit going on in my HAB world ATM. Almost too much to launch
[10:29] <rharrison> :(
[10:29] <jcoxon> bbiab
[10:32] <fsphil> rharrison, what sort of things do the schools like to do? I'm pondering asking the local high school about making something to fly
[10:33] <rharrison> fsphil, well primarily they like pics
[10:33] <rharrison> But then what comes next is some form of ecperiment
[10:33] <rharrison> experiment
[10:34] <rharrison> I think the best thing to do is provide the tracker and tracking and then let them do the rest
[10:35] <fsphil> right, let them do it from scratch rather than an add-on
[10:38] <rharrison> Or they could make an additional payload to add on the bottom. I personally don't like this approach as the whole system starts to get very heavy.
[10:47] <fsphil> and complicated
[11:00] <rharrison> I'm going to go and play for a bit
[11:00] <rharrison> bbiab
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[11:36] <Upu> ok I have to assume this isn't working, it's been on for 2 hours now and still no satellites
[11:38] <jcoxon> maybe try the other module
[11:38] <Upu> will have to break out the soldering iron it's not on the board
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[11:39] <Upu> I'll mail Bill and see if I'm missing something dumb
[11:39] <jcoxon> yeah
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[11:58] <SpeedEvil> AlsAlso - make sure GPS works in your location
[11:58] <SpeedEvil> GPS jammers exist
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[12:29] <jonsowman> morning all
[12:29] <jonsowman> /afternoon :\
[12:31] <jonsowman> fsphil: same bug as before?
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[14:15] <jcoxon> n9qgs payload has come online
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[14:44] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: #GPSL #ARHAB GPSL launches have begun, n9qgs on http://spacenear.us/tracker/ , video on http://www.batc.tv WA0TJT-1 stream [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/19421520209]
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[15:05] <juxta> what happens if I summon someone who zeusbot doesn't have any contact details for?
[15:06] <jcoxon> it pesters me!
[15:06] <juxta> haha ;p
[15:06] <jcoxon> you can be added if you want
[15:06] <juxta> sure, why not
[15:06] <juxta> you have my email address?
[15:07] <jcoxon> yup
[15:09] <juxta> ah hah, 1 new credit card statement received!
[15:09] <jcoxon> juxta, get it?
[15:09] <juxta> wait, I have it now :)
[15:11] <juxta> cheers jcoxon
[15:11] <jcoxon> np
[15:11] <jcoxon> it'll just get annoying :-p
[15:11] <juxta> haha
[15:11] <juxta> jcoxon, want to PM me your paypal details or similar?
[15:12] <jcoxon> juxta, let me order them first
[15:12] <juxta> sure
[15:12] <jcoxon> i'm not too sure when that'll be
[15:12] <juxta> no great rush
[15:13] <jcoxon> might be a week or so
[15:13] <jcoxon> though do bug me about it
[15:13] <juxta> sounds fine
[15:13] <juxta> I dont have a mailbox at my new place yet anyway
[15:14] <jcoxon> hehe
[15:14] <jcoxon> just started to pack up my room - though got distracted by GPSL
[15:14] <jcoxon> http://aprs.fi/?lat=38.064094&lng=-97.865365
[15:14] <juxta> how long til you move?
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[15:14] <juxta> (and did you find a place?)
[15:15] <jcoxon> juxta, its a bit of a mess really -so i start work on shadowing on weds till fri
[15:15] <jcoxon> then proper work starts the week after
[15:15] <juxta> that's awesome, I'd love to be involved in a big launch like that
[15:15] <jcoxon> then i can move into the house on 10th
[15:15] <jcoxon> so need to crash in hospital accomm till then
[15:15] <juxta> oh righto
[15:15] <jcoxon> so its a segmented move i reckon
[15:16] <juxta> moving is such a pain
[15:18] <juxta> jcoxon, a few pics of that shield the USYD guys made: http://www.bogaurd.net/usyd/
[15:19] <juxta> they did well considering that was done with a rusty old hand drill, though I suspect a good number of bits were broken
[15:19] <jcoxon> oh wow
[15:20] <jcoxon> good work
[15:20] <jcoxon> nice little package
[15:20] <juxta> we don't know if it works yet, haha
[15:21] <juxta> I put it together in eagle but didnt make one myself to test
[15:21] <juxta> it does get GPS lock though, which is a bonus
[15:22] <jcoxon> n9qgs is being picked up again
[15:22] <jcoxon> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[15:23] <juxta> nice - how many balloons in total?
[15:23] <jcoxon> i've lost track :-p
[15:23] <jcoxon> only 1 on spacenear.us
[15:24] <juxta> heh
[15:24] <juxta> CASA would have a fit if we tried that here!
[15:24] <jcoxon> we could legally do it here
[15:24] <jcoxon> though i think it wouldn't work out well :-p
[15:26] <juxta> the latest I heard from CASA was that moves were afoot to remove them from the loop
[15:27] <juxta> so that we'd issue NOTAMs directly with the NOTAM office
[15:27] <juxta> which would be nice
[15:27] <jcoxon> hehe
[15:27] <jcoxon> that would be nice
[15:27] <juxta> yeah, less notice required that way
[15:27] <jcoxon> aussie ballooning is going to grow methinks
[15:28] <jcoxon> started a trend
[15:28] <juxta> it seems that way
[15:28] <juxta> there's at least 4 or 5 project now
[15:28] <juxta> potential projects at least
[15:29] <jcoxon> for a longtime people have said we should rename ukhas to something more global
[15:30] <juxta> hmm, certainly seems that it's not confined to the UK anymore
[15:30] <juxta> UKHAS is a good name though :)
[15:31] <jcoxon> perhaps it should be Commonwealth High Altitude Society :-p
[15:32] <juxta> heh, well that covers Natrium I think
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[15:54] <jcoxon> hey Dan-K2VOL
[15:54] <jcoxon> should really persuade people to shift over to this channel
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> good idea
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[15:59] <steamatom_> test
[15:59] <jcoxon> hi steamatom_
[15:59] <steamatom_> it's just me, Dan, testing the web interface :-)
[16:00] <jcoxon> oh right
[16:00] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, we might actually launch something this winter - trans-a
[16:01] <Dan-K2VOL> Nice, I hope to be a little more available then, will definitely pitch in, at least with a remote receiver!
[16:01] <Dan-K2VOL> how did the recent ballast flights go
[16:01] <jcoxon> yeah it was a sort of success :-)
[16:02] <jcoxon> ballast tanks worked
[16:02] <jcoxon> but the sensor failed
[16:02] <jcoxon> was only rated down to -25 and it wasn't too happy at -27 but as the pump worked it warmed up and started to function
[16:02] <jcoxon> the problem was that by that time it had dumped all the ballast
[16:02] <jcoxon> so broke the float, rose up and burst so landed in the sea
[16:03] <jcoxon> but showed that the ballast pumps can function just need to improve on the sensor
[16:03] <jcoxon> also our ballast liquid survived - the tank had no insulation outside the payload
[16:04] <Dan-K2VOL> what was the liquid
[16:04] WB8ELK (48941916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.148.25.22) joined #highaltitude.
[16:04] <jcoxon> surgical spirit
[16:04] <jcoxon> so ethanol and methanol
[16:04] <Dan-K2VOL> gotcha, pretty much the same as snox
[16:04] <jcoxon> ping Upu
[16:04] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, yeah - we are pretty much reinventing it :-p
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> #2 hasn't been recovered from a beach somewhere?
[16:05] <jcoxon> hopefully going to do a HF test flight soon
[16:05] <Dan-K2VOL> the environment involved will necessarily result in very similar technical setups I suspect in most cases
[16:05] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[16:05] <jcoxon> though need to float that out of the UK first :-p
[16:05] <WB8ELK> Hi James and Dan
[16:05] <Dan-K2VOL> Hi Bill!
[16:05] <jcoxon> Hi Bill
[16:06] <Dan-K2VOL> Ah yes, I remember coding a lat/lon transmitter kill zone for the UK
[16:06] <jcoxon> yeah, we are stuck on our 10mW on 434 or 500mW on 868
[16:06] <Dan-K2VOL> seems that you guys have made the best of it, I'm impressed
[16:06] <WB8ELK> someday you might convince the RSGB to persuade your licensing folks to allow ham radio in balloons
[16:07] <Dan-K2VOL> yaeh
[16:07] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, not going to happen
[16:07] <WB8ELK> James....can you use Zigbee units?
[16:07] <jcoxon> we've tried :-)
[16:07] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, depends on the frequency
[16:07] <jcoxon> can't use the 900mhz version
[16:07] <WB8ELK> I found some nie 100 milliwatt units that have enough power to reach the ground
[16:08] <WB8ELK> I'm not sure if they can be programmed for 868 MHz though
[16:08] <Dan-K2VOL> I've been using XBee modules from SparkFun, quite impressive capabilities on those - they can control their I/O pins and read back their A/D inputs
[16:08] <WB8ELK> Yes...these are the XBee Pro XSC units
[16:08] <WB8ELK> I'm about to flight test them in a week or two
[16:08] <jcoxon> yeah we've got a idea for a balloon valve and were going to use a xbee to control it from the main payload below
[16:09] <jcoxon> no need for a micro - just use the GPIO pins
[16:09] <WB8ELK> that's exactly what I'm doing James....XBee controls the valve from commands from the main payload below
[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL> nice, I'm trying to piezo-electric vibration harvest power one the Xbee 2mw module for mounting on train wheels
[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL> haha great minds
[16:09] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, hehe, funny how we've all come to the same conclusion
[16:09] N4TXI (cf62c69f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.98.198.159) joined #highaltitude.
[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL> HI Gary
[16:10] <jcoxon> i reckon you are ahead of use considering its still on paper :-)
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[16:10] <WB8ELK> not only that I can possibly control the XBee unit on my valve directly from the ground
[16:10] <WB8ELK> Hi Gary
[16:10] <jcoxon> N9QGS on aprs.fi has gone on a bit of a journey
[16:10] <N4TXI> howdy.
[16:10] <Dan-K2VOL> what sensor were you using James?
[16:10] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, for the pump?
[16:10] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
[16:11] <jcoxon> it was a photogate and something interrupted the beam attached to the pump axle
[16:11] <jcoxon> going to try a hallsensor instead
[16:11] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm curious why pump vs. valve
[16:11] <Dan-K2VOL> easier to meter?
[16:11] <jcoxon> thats one reason
[16:12] <jcoxon> we had concerns about the passive nature of the valve
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> I don't follow
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> getting stuck?
[16:12] <jcoxon> well we are using a peristaltic pump so its an external pump
[16:12] <WB8ELK> Gary had a great simple idea for a valve
[16:12] <jcoxon> with a pretty impressive suck
[16:12] <WB8ELK> remember your eyebolt servo idea Gary
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> what kind of tubing are you using that stays flexible at those temps?
[16:13] <jcoxon> silicone
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> in the pump
[16:13] <WB8ELK> that pump James is almost exactly what they use in the ozonesonde
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> oh neat
[16:13] <WB8ELK> silicone tubing is the stuff to use...I see James already answered that
[16:13] <N4TXI> Yep, I recall, Bill
[16:14] <jcoxon> also i come from a medical background - we use these pumps a lot
[16:14] <jcoxon> :-p
[16:14] <WB8ELK> go ahead and tell them your simple ballast release idea Gary
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[16:15] <jcoxon> this is very interesting for a valve control:
[16:15] <jcoxon> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8782
[16:15] <jcoxon> sure it doesn't move very far
[16:15] <N4TXI> The idea was to run the tubing though an eyebolt. The servo would turn the eyebolt, just allowing the tube to run straight or get kinked, like a garden hose.
[16:15] <jcoxon> but they have videos of it functioning in liquid nitrogen
[16:15] <Dan-K2VOL> nice, we never came across a cheap pump like that, and in homemade tests even silicone got sluggish to rebound at -50C in our makeshift cold chamber
[16:15] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, also the pump warms itself up :-)
[16:15] <Dan-K2VOL> but they make all different formulations, you must have gotten a better one :-)
[16:16] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, last flight it didn't get down to -50 so i must admit we haven't pushed it that far
[16:16] <Dan-K2VOL> Good idea Gary
[16:17] <Dan-K2VOL> have you guys tried dry-ice tests?
[16:17] <jcoxon> not as extensive as your tests
[16:17] <jcoxon> (i remember the posts)
[16:17] <Dan-K2VOL> We had intially tried a servo-pinch valve, but again, the tubing wouldn't un-pinch when it was cold
[16:18] <jcoxon> its a pretty massive technical challenge
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> we didn't have good luck with servos in the cold either. I will say that on our very limited budget, and time we didn't explore each option very deeply before discarding it if it failed in any way. We were thinking everyone else on the planet was about to launch T-A balloons and beat us :-)
[16:19] <N4TXI> what was the issue of using a solid, like sand, instead of a liquid again?
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> it's fun isn't it james?
[16:19] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, hmmm sometimes
[16:19] <WB8ELK> I have several of these nanomuscle servo devices...was going to use them for my ballast release
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> haha yes, we quit cause it was getting less fun most of the time when trying to put up 5 T-A flights in one winter
[16:20] <Dan-K2VOL> which device was working in liquid nitrogen
[16:20] <jcoxon> i'm a big fan of the pump, its self warming, its external to the tubing in a sense, its very accurate (0.26mls per turn), not too expensive
[16:20] <jcoxon> those nanomuscle linear servo things
[16:20] <Dan-K2VOL> really, I'm going to look and see how much current they draw
[16:21] <WB8ELK> yep...I have a couple of nice ones that turn a gearshaft
[16:21] <Dan-K2VOL> WOW 470mA!!!
[16:21] <WB8ELK> very lightweight and would work in the cold I'd assume...haven't tested them in a cold chamber yet
[16:21] <Dan-K2VOL> we couldn't have had that kind of power draw on snox
[16:21] <jcoxon> http://www.migamotors.com/Media/MigaOneLN2.m4v
[16:22] <WB8ELK> the ones I have don't draw as much current as that sparkfun device you just showed....I'll try to figufre out where I got these
[16:22] <jcoxon> warning - a movie file
[16:22] <Dan-K2VOL> at least not wma ;-)
[16:22] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, oh i have no plans for them on a trans-a
[16:22] <jcoxon> more as a helium valve on a latex balloon
[16:22] <Dan-K2VOL> ahh gotcha
[16:22] <jcoxon> couple that with the ballast tanks and bingo
[16:22] <Dan-K2VOL> sounds good for that
[16:23] <jcoxon> then for the ultimate setup
[16:23] <Dan-K2VOL> how much current is your pump?
[16:23] <jcoxon> you work out beforehand at what point the winds change direction
[16:23] <jcoxon> and aim for that
[16:23] <N4TXI> another option for linear servos: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdId=SPMAS2000&utm_source=froogle
[16:23] <jcoxon> and you've got a floating balloon not going anywhere
[16:23] <jcoxon> :-p
[16:24] <Dan-K2VOL> do you guys use the NOAA thing we used to use which I can't at all remember the name of?
[16:24] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
[16:24] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, can't remember off the top of my head and its now in the sea :-p
[16:24] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, yeah Hysplit
[16:24] <jcoxon> so i've fused hysplit with out normal predictor
[16:24] <jcoxon> so you get up and down as well
[16:24] <jcoxon> our*
[16:25] <Dan-K2VOL> very nice
[16:26] <Dan-K2VOL> very nice indeed
[16:26] <WB8ELK> Hysplit
[16:26] <Dan-K2VOL> thanks :-)
[16:26] <Dan-K2VOL> Bill are you driving?
[16:26] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, something you guys should implment is this: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/
[16:26] <jcoxon> it does hourly predictions for a single site
[16:27] <jcoxon> so you can chose the best time
[16:27] <Dan-K2VOL> nice, we used to do that with email, we had a local copy of Hysplit running predictions every 6 hours for the next 4 days
[16:27] <Dan-K2VOL> though it got pretty heavy on the inbox
[16:28] <WB8ELK> Nice linear servo Gary
[16:28] <jcoxon> yeah, we haven't really done much on a trans-a - i just contine to slowly work on the ballast system
[16:28] <WB8ELK> no...I'm in Huntsville...couldn't make it to GPSL this year
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, I'm excited to see it operate in the liquid nitrogen - that's a shoe-in for a balloon
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> ahh that's a bummer, but I'm glad you're not that good at typing while at the wheel!
[16:29] <WB8ELK> James...I hit the minimum wind field a year ago during turnaround and floated over one spot in Tennessee all night long at 107,000 feet....it was going 1 mph
[16:29] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, amazing - how cool would it if we could do this to command
[16:29] <jcoxon> once it was there it could easily vary its altitude to keep in it
[16:30] <WB8ELK> yep....steer up and down to find the winds you need
[16:30] <WB8ELK> just like the hot air balloon folks do
[16:30] <Dan-K2VOL> that would be a nice onboard algorithm
[16:30] <WB8ELK> it'll work during the summer months anyway
[16:30] <jcoxon> oh i'm sure there are people on this channel that would be able to magic that up
[16:30] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
[16:30] <Dan-K2VOL> how is that SPOT hacking going these days, alexi still doing that?
[16:31] <jcoxon> he hasn't done any more - to tell teh truth i think he had done it all really
[16:31] <jcoxon> they've brought out a new one which has a ublox
[16:32] <Dan-K2VOL> what's that
[16:32] <jcoxon> ublox GPS module
[16:32] <Dan-K2VOL> (I'm googling, but my internet is being slow)
[16:32] <Dan-K2VOL> hahahahhaha
[16:32] <jcoxon> so will work to 50km
[16:33] <jcoxon> !commands
[16:34] <jcoxon> i'm suprised it worked - zeusbot is very fickle
[16:34] <jcoxon> only does what it wants really
[16:35] <Dan-K2VOL> ahh yes. Still no serial data in port though eh :-P
[16:36] <jcoxon> oh his spot hacking is still very usefuk
[16:36] <jcoxon> useful*
[16:36] <Dan-K2VOL> once they get a two-way spot that we can hack, just imagine the ballooning that we'll be able to do
[16:37] <jonsowman> hi jcoxon
[16:37] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, one day :-)
[16:37] <jcoxon> hey jonsowman - you summoned me last week
[16:37] <jcoxon> how can i help?
[16:37] <jonsowman> sorry I didn't mean to
[16:37] <jcoxon> oh right no worries
[16:37] <jonsowman> zeusbot emails you when it doesn't know who else, right?
[16:37] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:37] <Dan-K2VOL> Some of our predictions in that SNOX winter put us in Russia in 3 days
[16:38] <jonsowman> anyway just wanted to say thank you for the r113 dl-fldigi release
[16:38] <jonsowman> was fantastically useful on the chase
[16:38] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, did anything materialise from disccusion with the FAA
[16:38] <jcoxon> jonsowman, any bugs ?
[16:38] <jonsowman> nope seemed perfect
[16:38] <jcoxon> oh and ssssshhhh no one knows about that
[16:38] <jonsowman> haha yes, sorry
[16:39] <Dan-K2VOL> I didn't ever hear myself. I will call up from John Checherelli from cornell U.
[16:39] <jcoxon> won't release it for a little while
[16:39] <jonsowman> yea
[16:39] <jonsowman> anyway everything went pretty much perfectly
[16:39] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, they must of got some sort of permission as they launched :-)
[16:39] <jcoxon> jonsowman, great - i'm interested in teh radiation sensor things - good data?
[16:40] <Dan-K2VOL> ha, well I wouldn't put that as an indicator of permission
[16:40] <jonsowman> we had a bug in the spacenear tracker XML so half the flight is missing from there, but we fixed it when we worked out what was wrong
[16:40] <jonsowman> jcoxon: hang i'l find the data
[16:40] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, oh :-)
[16:40] <Dan-K2VOL> you see the way the law appears to be interpreted here, is that the FAA controllers CANNOT tell us not to launch
[16:40] <Dan-K2VOL> I wouldn't ever advise not listening to them though
[16:40] <jcoxon> i think we'd aim for africa
[16:40] <jcoxon> wow
[16:41] <jonsowman> jcoxon: one sensor was completely non functional, and the other cut out at 20km, and came back online at 16km on descent. we think it's something pressure related
[16:41] <jcoxon> i sometimes think out system of launch permission is the best
[16:41] <jonsowman> http://www.hexoc.com/pages/apex/apex-ii/data.php
[16:41] <jonsowman> bottom graph on first screenshot
[16:41] <jcoxon> however the person who runs it is very slow but i guess its only one person doing quite a bit of work
[16:41] <Dan-K2VOL> probably safest, and I suspect ours will be changed soon, we have too many uncontrolled balloons going into the air with GPS cellphones and such
[16:42] <jonsowman> jcoxon: raw data is here: balloon.hexoc.com/apex-ii/data.csv
[16:42] <jcoxon> jonsowman, cool so it went up :-)
[16:42] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, thats the risk, we are pretty strict about people sticking to the rules
[16:42] <jonsowman> yep and it all worked fine on the whole. the HV system and telem for it were spot on
[16:42] <jcoxon> don't want to upset the people in charge
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[16:43] <jcoxon> jonsowman, what code did you use for the chase cars?
[16:43] <Dan-K2VOL> jcoxon exactly
[16:43] <jonsowman> the #2 tube was dead due to damage during payload prep we think. but we are re-launching the same payload again soon
[16:43] <jonsowman> jcoxon: some python that Randomskk put together in about 10 mins before launch
[16:43] <jonsowman> after i pretty much threw the GPS dongle at him and ran away
[16:43] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, you still interested in plotting chase cars?
[16:43] <Dan-K2VOL> we've been trying to get people into a self-regulating organization, but not much progress yet. WB8ELK, do you know if that was on the topics for GPSL?
[16:44] <jonsowman> it's python so it's all happy and cross-platform etc
[16:44] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, well i might be picking your brains about getting some sort of permission etc
[16:44] <jcoxon> as we don't really have a stateside contact
[16:44] <jcoxon> and we aren't launching in Canada as NavCanada are evil
[16:44] <jonsowman> chase car tracker script is on Apex github repo if anyone wants it
[16:44] <jonsowman> http://github.com/mattbrejza/APEX/blob/master/Installers/chase.py
[16:44] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd be happy to, since I'm so sporatically here, do you have my email?
[16:45] <jcoxon> yeah i'm sure its in my googlemail somewhere
[16:45] <WB8ELK> just got back....talked to N9QGS...he's getting good DominoEX reception but ran out of his minutes on his EVDO cell card and can't renew them without being at a WiFi hotspot which is hard to find a Starbucks in the wheat fields of Kansas
[16:45] <Dan-K2VOL> in fact, if you're looking for a launch point, there's a spaceport in Indiana that would love to host it, and Bill and I could get a crew together
[16:45] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, hehe oh well, need to recruit some more dl-fldigi users
[16:46] <jcoxon> last flight i think we had 7 simultanous receivers
[16:46] <Dan-K2VOL> jcoxon, ok, enough procrastinating, I'm going to go set up that rig online this afternoon :-)
[16:46] <jcoxon> globaltuners?
[16:46] <WB8ELK> it's catching on here...we had three stations here during my last flight and more interested
[16:46] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, its quite involving
[16:46] <Dan-K2VOL> that's the plan, but I'd like to do whatever necessary to be most useful for balloon listening
[16:47] <jcoxon> perhaps a bit more fun then just APRS
[16:47] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, well you could push ahead with xmlrpc and such
[16:48] Nick change: fsphil_ -> fsphil|mobile
[16:48] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.12/xmlrpc-control.html
[16:49] <Dan-K2VOL> jcoxon I'm not much of a programmer, but I'll make my hardware available at your command, I can even give you guys a logmein.com login to the PC if you ever want it
[16:49] <Dan-K2VOL> I finally found a place to set it up - a hackerspace just started in this city, and they have a nice long roof for a dipole
[16:49] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, go for globaltuners then
[16:50] <Dan-K2VOL> will do
[16:50] <jcoxon> they are flexible anyway so we could easily borrow it for flights
[16:50] <Dan-K2VOL> I'll pass the XMLRPC on to the hackerspace guys, they might be interested
[16:50] <jcoxon> it'll get picked up here soon
[16:50] <jcoxon> quite a few people contribute to dl-fldigi
[16:51] <Dan-K2VOL> good!
[16:51] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, you might be interested - fsphil has got jpegs over rtty working
[16:51] <Dan-K2VOL> that's one problem we had with the DTRC system, there was only one programmer, and he didn't like help
[16:51] <WB8ELK> I'll probably put my TS-2000 on GlobalTuners soon on the mountaintop
[16:51] <Dan-K2VOL> jcoxon, will we finally be able to see a mid-atlantic sunrise?
[16:51] <WB8ELK> yes...interested in displaying chase cars...is that the code link above?
[16:52] <jcoxon> simple serial jpeg camera attached to an atmega which just grabs the data and sends it over the radio
[16:52] <jcoxon> then dlfldigi reassembles it
[16:52] <Dan-K2VOL> WB8ELK can you give balloon listeners priority when you want to?
[16:52] <jonsowman> WB8ELK: yes
[16:52] <jonsowman> the chase.py script
[16:52] <jonsowman> by Randomskk
[16:53] <jonsowman> you just need a USB/serial gps that spits out NMEA 0183 over a (virtual) COM port
[16:53] <jonsowman> you'll need to change the chase vehicle name in the script too
[16:53] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, well our radio is quite flexible, currently does quite a few modes, sstv might actually be on that list...
[16:53] <jonsowman> it's chase-M0RND at the moment
[16:54] <jcoxon> okay will bbl - got to go shopping
[16:54] Zuph (~Zuph@96-28-231-112.dhcp.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:54] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-162-96-133.range86-162.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[16:55] <Dan-K2VOL> Zuph, sadly jcoxon just left, but
[16:55] <WB8ELK> I'll give it a try and change the Chase ID
[16:55] Action: fsphil|mobile is lost :)
[16:55] <jonsowman> fsphil|mobile: physically lost? or lost in this conversation?
[16:55] <Dan-K2VOL> WB8ELK bill, how do you think jcoxon gets an image from a camera to transmit over the SSTV on hf radio?
[16:56] <fsphil|mobile> bit of both really :)
[16:56] <jonsowman> haha
[16:56] <jonsowman> oh dear
[16:56] <fsphil|mobile> ah just spotted a landmark
[16:57] <WB8ELK> I was about to ask him about the image via RTTY he just mentioned
[16:57] <Dan-K2VOL> haha darn
[16:57] <WB8ELK> I'll email him about it
[16:57] <fsphil|mobile> hi WB8ELK, I did the image JPEG thing
[16:58] <Dan-K2VOL> nice!
[16:58] <WB8ELK> are you using that C528 serial camera?
[16:58] <fsphil|mobile> It's the C328, got from sparkfun
[16:59] <WB8ELK> yep...the C328..sorry hard to type on these narrow keys on my netbook
[16:59] <WB8ELK> are you just sendingt out the serial data stream, or converting it
[16:59] <fsphil|mobile> know the feeling :)
[17:00] <fsphil|mobile> I don't decode it, just transmit the jpeg data directly
[17:00] <fsphil|mobile> though next time I'm going to filter out the headers -- they never change
[17:01] <Dan-K2VOL> how long does one take
[17:01] <WB8ELK> ok...what are you using to decode it....their demo display software is not so good that comes with the camera
[17:01] <fsphil|mobile> Dan-K2VOL, about 4 minutes for the 320x240 images at 300 baud
[17:01] <Dan-K2VOL> 300?
[17:02] <fsphil|mobile> yes
[17:02] <WB8ELK> I've got my transmitter doing 300 baud ASCII RTTY now Dan
[17:02] Nick change: dcrand -> KB9ZWL
[17:02] <Dan-K2VOL> on HF? wow
[17:02] <jonsowman> 300 worked excellent for normally rtty telemtry on apex
[17:02] <WB8ELK> Doug ZWL is here listening
[17:02] <jonsowman> might just use that from now on
[17:02] <fsphil|mobile> WB8ELK, I never used their software - just wrote the code on the avr to get the camera to send the image
[17:02] <WB8ELK> they do 300 baud packet on HF...so 300 baud ASCII RTTY should work too
[17:03] <jonsowman> yeh it seems to work very well
[17:03] <WB8ELK> but 4 minutes is a long time....but good to do an occasional photo
[17:03] <jonsowman> especially for moving vehicles
[17:03] <fsphil|mobile> WB8ELK, it is slow, but the normal telemetry can be mixed in with it
[17:03] <KB9ZWL> Bill I e-mailed you a link for that short GPSL video
[17:03] <WB8ELK> thanks Doug...that'll be great
[17:03] <Dan-K2VOL> on a trans-atlantic flight you'd want to be sure you were going to receive it, a 4 minute transmission would really hit the power budget
[17:04] <fsphil|mobile> would be tricky on HF
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[17:05] <ki6ymz> hey all, what's the current downlink freq for the GPSL?
[17:05] <griffonbot> @BASE_DePauw: BASE 47 landed in corn Recovery begun #ARHAB #GPSL [http://twitter.com/BASE_DePauw/status/19430613913]
[17:06] <WB8ELK> they are almost all on the ground...but 144.34 MHz and 146.565 MHz as well as 144.39 APRS
[17:06] <ki6ymz> alright, cool. any more launches tomorrow?
[17:06] <WB8ELK> so to receive the image on your PC what do you use?
[17:07] <ki6ymz> I'm just at the outside of the listening area, but I think if I climb a hill I might be able to pick something up
[17:07] <WB8ELK> ymz...where are you located?
[17:07] <fsphil|mobile> dl-fldigi has the code to receive the image over the air
[17:07] <WB8ELK> no...just the multiple flights today
[17:08] <WB8ELK> oh...didn't know FLdigi could do it
[17:08] <ki6ymz> currently in Boulder, CO
[17:08] <fsphil|mobile> normal fldigi can't, it's an addon we did
[17:08] <WB8ELK> is that part of dl-FLdigi?
[17:08] <fsphil|mobile> it also uploads the individual packets, so multiple listeners can contribute to the image
[17:08] <fsphil|mobile> yes, dl-fldigi
[17:08] <ki6ymz> this is stilldavid on another computer, btw
[17:09] <WB8ELK> so basically send out the serial data from the C328 and your modified dl-FLdigi decoes
[17:09] <fsphil|mobile> yep .. avr reads the data, makes up a packet + error correction, transmits it
[17:09] <WB8ELK> Boulder could work but most of the balloons are coming down....if any are still prior to burst you might hear them on 144.34
[17:09] <fsphil|mobile> brb, gotta run into the store
[17:10] <WB8ELK> please let me know a link
[17:10] <WB8ELK> to kearn more about your packetizing of the camera data
[17:10] <WB8ELK> or an email for you
[17:12] <WB8ELK> well...some good info...I'll see if James can get me more info on that
[17:13] <WB8ELK> although might not be legal in the US to send image data over RTTY.....might have to convert to SSTV first
[17:13] <Dan-K2VOL> oh hmm hadn't thought of that
[17:13] <WB8ELK> I know there are visual modes to MFSK but only legal in Europe
[17:13] <WB8ELK> unless the FCC rules have changed on that
[17:14] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe everything is game over the ocean ;-)
[17:14] <WB8ELK> exactly
[17:14] <WB8ELK> rules of the sea
[17:16] <Dan-K2VOL> well I've got to get going, gonna go start setting up the globaltuners rig at lvl1.org hackerspace. You should stop by next time you come through town Bill
[17:16] <Dan-K2VOL> it's becoming a nice place
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[17:19] <WB8ELK> will do Dan....hope you can come to the Spaceport flight on Aug 6th and Ranoul IL on Aug 7th
[17:19] <WB8ELK> 73s for now
[17:20] <Dan-K2VOL> I am going to try! :-) 73
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[17:28] <fsphil|mobile> back
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[17:34] <jcoxon> back
[17:35] <fsphil|mobile> wb
[17:36] <jcoxon> US guys all gone
[17:37] <fsphil|mobile> yea they all bailed out a few minutes before you came back
[17:37] <jcoxon> heh
[17:37] <jcoxon> e
[17:37] <fsphil|mobile> nice to see them here
[17:38] <jcoxon> indeed
[17:38] <jcoxon> they were lurking on the streaming video chat channel
[17:38] <jcoxon> but they had stopped streaming a long time ago
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[17:54] <griffonbot> @BASE_DePauw: BASE 47 Recovered #ARHAB #GPSL [http://twitter.com/BASE_DePauw/status/19433738136]
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[21:52] <griffonbot> @N9XTN: Good luck all w/recoveries. Wish I was there, internet down so couldn't watch much. #GPSL #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/N9XTN/status/19446038538]
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[23:22] <Laurenceb> hi
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[00:00] --- Sun Jul 25 2010