highaltitude.log.20100711

[00:00] <natrium42> G3VZV_Graham, awesome
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[00:01] <jcoxon_> VA3SIE, no just UHF
[00:01] <natrium42> 10 mW
[00:01] <VA3SIE> ok, thanks James.
[00:02] <rjmunro> http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/
[00:02] <jcoxon_> VA3SIE, working towards a trans-atlantic - testing the ballast tanks in this case
[00:02] <natrium42> haha, rjmunro
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[00:03] <natrium42> there are a couple of ships in the vincinity
[00:03] <VA3SIE> Nice, James.
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[00:04] <m6lep> Hmmmm... Think I can safely say I'll not decode anything more from BH5...
[00:04] <g8tmv> natrium42: balloon Sir, that made a hole in your boat sir, no not us sir
[00:04] <natrium42> :)
[00:04] <Lunar_Lander> ok it entered the troposphere
[00:04] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[00:08] <MI6VIM_fsphil> I'm gonna leave the radio on, it's in the attic and I not climbing up this time of night
[00:08] <MI6VIM_fsphil> anyone wants to play it's at: http://195.112.16.94:8070/radio.php
[00:08] <MindSpigot> It seems to be missing a fake alien, think of the boost to Britain PLC from the resulting alien chasing loonies :-)
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[00:13] <Dave_fev> That's about it guys. No more signal. Great evening, Thanks...Dave
[00:13] <MI6VIM_fsphil> great tracking Dave_fev
[00:13] <M0TEK_Ed> night all
[00:13] <M0TEK_Ed> awesome work dave
[00:14] <g8tmv> Dave_fev: what rig and ant do you use?
[00:14] <VA3SIE> Congratulations, Fellas!!
[00:14] <Dave_fev> Yaesu VR-5000 - 19ele at 8 metres
[00:14] <G3VZV-Graham> still can see the signal here but not much decoding
[00:14] <g8tmv> no wonder you get good tracking!
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[00:14] <MindSpigot> a pleasure to follow, well done chaps.
[00:16] <jcoxon_> thanks Dave_fev !
[00:16] <jcoxon_> great tracking
[00:17] <MI6VIM_fsphil> I must get the yagi on the roof some of these days
[00:17] <jcoxon_> we are packing up so night all
[00:17] <jcoxon_> will write a report tomorrow
[00:17] <natrium42> nite
[00:17] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:17] <Lunar_Lander> good night James
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[00:17] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for a nice flight :)
[00:17] <Lunar_Lander> oh too late :D
[00:18] <Lunar_Lander> why's the balloon "stuck" at 6.3 km?
[00:19] <MI6VIM_fsphil> that's when the last telemetry was received
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> did it fail?
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[00:20] <MI6VIM_fsphil> well, not really. it did successfully drop the ballast, though it seems to have dropped too much
[00:20] <G3VZV-Graham> just got a signal from 4323 metres
[00:20] <G3VZV-Graham> now 3931 metres
[00:20] <MI6VIM_fsphil> just over ten minutes to splashdown!
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[00:22] <G3VZV-Graham> now can only just see it on the waterfall
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> It dropped too much, rose and burst?
[00:22] <G3VZV-Graham> ok give up now nothing on the w'fall - nite all:)
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> night
[00:22] <MI6VIM_fsphil> night graham!
[00:22] <natrium42> nite
[00:23] <MI6VIM_fsphil> seems that way SpeedEvil
[00:23] <MI6VIM_fsphil> it was looking light it was starting to float again just before it burst
[00:23] <MI6VIM_fsphil> like
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[00:30] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[00:30] <MI6VIM_fsphil> night LL
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[00:37] <natrium42> added Graham's last position
[00:37] <natrium42> he got it beyound horizon!
[00:38] <MI6VIM_fsphil> he must have some altitude where he lives
[00:41] Action: natrium42 whistles innocently
[00:41] <jgrahamc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/ballasthalo5/
[00:41] <MI6VIM_fsphil> lol
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[00:42] <natrium42> wtb boat icon
[00:43] <MI6VIM_fsphil> or it could be one of those aqua cars
[00:43] <natrium42> yeah
[00:43] <MI6VIM_fsphil> like james bond has
[00:44] <natrium42> nice pics, jgrahamc
[00:44] <MI6VIM_fsphil> very nice
[00:44] <MI6VIM_fsphil> I love that foil
[00:44] <MI6VIM_fsphil> I managed to find a kind of under floor insulator, silver on one side and polystyrene on the other
[00:44] <MI6VIM_fsphil> gonna use that on hadie
[00:46] <jgrahamc> I'm uploading the launch video to YouTube now, but it's slow.
[00:46] <DrLuke> wow, superlightning over my house
[00:47] <DrLuke> with thunderbolts so long the fill the whole sky from one horizon to the tother
[00:47] Action: SpeedEvil passes DrLuke a kite.
[00:47] <DrLuke> awesome
[00:47] Action: MI6VIM_fsphil is very envious of DrLuke
[00:47] <MI6VIM_fsphil> ;-)
[00:47] Nick change: MI6VIM_fsphil -> fsphil
[00:47] <SpeedEvil> :)
[00:47] <DrLuke> :P
[00:47] <fsphil> yay, my nick is in one of those pics. you should have warned me, I'd have fixed my hair
[00:47] <DrLuke> and the lightnings don't appear instantly, but kinda move
[00:47] <DrLuke> that'
[00:47] <DrLuke> s awesome
[00:48] <DrLuke> holy crap, a tower got hit now all lights on it are flickering, lol
[00:48] <natrium42> make a long exposure photo
[00:48] <fsphil> we had a thunderstorm forecast for tonight here but nothing has happened
[00:49] <fsphil> noooo I wannna seeeee lol
[00:49] <fsphil> where's those wormholes when you need them
[00:49] <DrLuke> hehe
[00:49] <DrLuke> it's kickass
[00:49] <DrLuke> but it was even more extreme earlier
[00:49] <DrLuke> once could read a book outside because of the amount of lightning
[00:50] <fsphil> I saw that once here, none of the lightning was nearby but it was almost constant from all directions
[00:50] <fsphil> the sky was basically flickering for about half an hour
[00:51] <fsphil> and there was a constant rumble
[00:51] <DrLuke> yeah
[00:51] <DrLuke> it's kind of scary
[00:51] <DrLuke> but awesome and manly at the same time
[00:51] <MindSpigot> I've seen storms like that in Italy, never here
[00:51] <DrLuke> I've seen them at the beach
[00:51] <DrLuke> that's an awesome sight
[00:52] <fsphil> So far this year there hasn't been any lightning at all near me
[00:52] <DrLuke> that sucks :/
[00:52] <fsphil> but it's very hot tonight, there still might be some
[00:53] <Laurenceb> what the hell
[00:53] <Laurenceb> chase boat ?!
[00:53] Action: Laurenceb just got back
[00:53] <fsphil> lol
[00:54] <Laurenceb> how is the internet connection working?
[00:54] <Laurenceb> to the boat
[00:55] <Laurenceb> or are you relaying via ham?
[00:55] <Laurenceb> whos got the boat?
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[00:58] <Laurenceb> or is it a joke?
[00:58] <fsphil> :)
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[00:59] <natrium42> http://villagethinker.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/successful_troll2.jpg
[01:00] <fsphil> congratulations :)
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[01:47] Nick change: TraumaPwny -> TraumaPony
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[01:55] <jcoxon> home
[01:55] <fsphil> wb!
[01:57] <jcoxon> woohoo chase boat
[01:57] <jcoxon> much better drive back - earlier it took my 1hour to do 5 miles
[01:57] <jcoxon> hence why i was so late to cambridge
[01:58] <fsphil> ooch, traffic problems?
[01:58] <jcoxon> they closed the blackwall tunnel southbound and rotherhithe north
[01:58] <jcoxon> so had to use tower bridge
[01:58] <jcoxon> not a good one to cross over on
[01:59] <jcoxon> will do my write up tomorrow
[02:00] <fsphil> pleased or disappointed? it was a bit of a mixed day
[02:00] <jcoxon> yeah mixed
[02:01] <jcoxon> but overall good
[02:01] <jcoxon> showed that float does exist
[02:01] <jcoxon> that we could detect it and dump ballast
[02:01] <jcoxon> just a shame that hte sensor didn't work as if we had only dumped 100mls we could have re-established float
[02:01] <fsphil> yes, I was surprised by how quickly float happened - and how stable it was
[02:02] <jcoxon> its impressive when it happens
[02:03] <jcoxon> we certainly dumped ballast - the pump worked, the ballast was suitable
[02:03] <jcoxon> just need to check out the sensor
[02:03] <jcoxon> our theory is that there is a threshold - it got too cold and so didn't report - once it warmed up it began to report again
[02:03] <fsphil> that should be fairly simple to test
[02:04] <jcoxon> yup
[02:04] <jcoxon> lucky for my philosophy of ordering 2 of everything...
[02:05] <jcoxon> the tracker worked great
[02:05] <jcoxon> time to upgrade to crc16 methinks
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[02:05] <jcoxon> if it wasn't a ballast flight it would have drifted a long long way
[02:05] <jcoxon> at 23km that gives a lot of leeway for the morning
[02:05] <fsphil> where you using the xor checksum?
[02:05] <jcoxon> yeah
[02:06] <fsphil> aah I was wondering how so many glitches snuck in
[02:06] <jcoxon> i'm wondering if the antenna wasn't great - people struggled with reception
[02:06] <jcoxon> but i also guess it was quite low for a lot of the flight
[02:07] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: #bh5 #arhab BallastHalo 5 in the water, guess its floating :-D - great flight, ballast pump appears to work though sensor broke ?too cold [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/18234783037]
[02:07] <fsphil> yep, it kept just below the decodable threshold here
[02:07] <jcoxon> anyone hear the beacon?
[02:08] <fsphil> LazyLeopard was the only one who mentioned
[02:08] <fsphil> I seen it in the waterfall, but didn't get anything useful from it
[02:08] <jcoxon> i heard it at about 10:00pm
[02:09] <fsphil> thing's likely still tx'ing :)
[02:09] <jcoxon> hehe
[02:09] <jcoxon> it'll definitely float
[02:09] <jcoxon> but not watertight
[02:11] <jcoxon> thank goodness for G4FEV
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[02:11] <jcoxon> our 'basestation' in Cambridge has great views east and west just not north
[02:13] <juxta_> hi jcoxon
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[02:15] <jcoxon> hey juxta_
[02:17] <juxta_> I just had a look at the tracker - chase boat? :S
[02:17] <jcoxon> natrium42 is on an adventure
[02:17] <jcoxon> hehe
[02:19] <juxta_> heh
[02:19] <juxta_> looks like the flight went for quite a while
[02:19] <juxta_> no float though?
[02:21] <jcoxon> yeah it floated
[02:21] <jcoxon> then we pumped ballast
[02:21] <jcoxon> but the sensor was bust so it pumped all the ballast
[02:21] <jcoxon> and rose up
[02:21] <jcoxon> hence the altitude graph
[02:22] <juxta_> ahh right
[02:23] <jcoxon> it was a good flight
[02:23] <jcoxon> the sensor had temperature issues
[02:23] <jcoxon> once it warmed up (from the pump turning) it started working
[02:23] <juxta_> what sort of sensor do you use?
[02:23] <jcoxon> photogate
[02:23] <jcoxon> so know what to test
[02:24] <natrium42> jcoxon, what's the part number?
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[02:27] <jcoxon> natrium42, will have a look - one sec
[02:28] <jcoxon> thanks for all the rapid fixes
[02:28] <jnd> jcoxon: so the condition for pumping should be either sensor or actual alt rise, right?
[02:28] <natrium42> sure thing
[02:28] <jcoxon> natrium42, http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9299
[02:29] <natrium42> was it covered from the sun?
[02:29] <jcoxon> jnd, the condition for pumping was based on altitude but halted by the sensor
[02:29] <jcoxon> yes - internal
[02:29] <jcoxon> and it was dark
[02:29] <natrium42> ok
[02:29] <jcoxon> as in tis night time :-p
[02:29] <natrium42> right
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[02:30] <jcoxon> interesting temperature graphs
[02:30] <jcoxon> something i didn't really think about till now
[02:31] <jnd> jcoxon: I mean it should consider both and not only one which could get faulty
[02:33] <natrium42> min operating temp for that sensor is -25C
[02:34] <jcoxon> jnd, indeed - the pump was the least of my worries when constructing but yeah
[02:34] <natrium42> it was -27C, not a big difference
[02:34] <jcoxon> it started working when it was -19C
[02:34] <natrium42> how was sensor attached, got any pics?
[02:35] <jcoxon> not very clear here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/4754113171/in/set-72157624376182662/
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[02:35] <natrium42> ah, i see it
[02:36] <jcoxon> also http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/4320357542/in/set-72157623226106480/#/
[02:36] <natrium42> so was it glued to the pump too, or just he carton?
[02:36] <natrium42> *the
[02:36] <jcoxon> just the cartoon
[02:36] <natrium42> :S
[02:36] <jcoxon> but so was the pump
[02:37] <natrium42> yes, but maybe their relative positions changed
[02:37] <jcoxon> but then it worked again
[02:37] <natrium42> carton is flexible
[02:37] <natrium42> counds a bit dodgy
[02:37] <natrium42> *sounds
[02:37] <jcoxon> no it was solid
[02:38] <natrium42> maybe condensation on sensor window?
[02:38] <jcoxon> more likely was that the interupt bit slipped
[02:38] <jcoxon> that was secured with glue to the shaft
[02:38] <natrium42> sure, blame the software guys :D
[02:39] <jcoxon> hehe i mean the thing that breaks the gate :-p
[02:39] <natrium42> ah, right
[02:39] <jcoxon> i think i've got another photogate so will add temp sensor + freezer
[02:39] <jcoxon> see if can replicate
[02:39] <natrium42> it was carton too, wasn't it? >:|
[02:39] <jcoxon> yup
[02:39] Action: natrium42 slaps jcoxon with water resistant materials
[02:40] <jcoxon> pah it worked last flight
[02:40] <natrium42> better safe than sorry :P
[02:40] <jcoxon> why would it then start working...
[02:40] <natrium42> that's how dodginess works
[02:40] <natrium42> :P
[02:40] <jcoxon> hehe
[02:41] <natrium42> i'd use a piece of pcb board
[02:41] <natrium42> or maybe wood
[02:41] <jcoxon> i was going to get the hackspace makerbot to do it but it was always broken
[02:43] <jcoxon> right sleep time for me
[02:43] <jcoxon> night
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[09:29] <jcoxon> morning
[09:33] <g8tmv> Morning
[09:35] <jcoxon> hey g8tmv, thanks for tracking yesteday
[09:36] <g8tmv> No probs - Rick (m6lep) got me re-interested in radio stuff by talking about balloons
[09:36] <g8tmv> eventually I'll have a qth where I can put up antennas and then I'll be able to do a better job
[09:36] <jcoxon> yeah where we were based had terrible north views
[09:37] <g8tmv> I'm in a rented flat, the best I can do for 70cms is the rubber duck off my 817 on a long pole
[09:37] <g8tmv> stuck out of the first floor window
[09:37] <jcoxon> hehe - all about the slightly crazy temporary setups
[09:38] <g8tmv> indeed
[09:38] <jcoxon> i'm moving to Worthing next month so will be a long way from the balloon launches ;-(
[09:38] <g8tmv> Has anyone thought about doing the telemetry on 2m or even on HF?
[09:38] <jcoxon> yes indeed it has been thought about however it isn't legal
[09:39] <g8tmv> <G> I've recently moved *from* Worthing - the Radio Club down there is pretty good.
[09:39] <g8tmv> Why are you heading that way? Job?
[09:39] <jcoxon> we are transmitting in the licence exempt band not under an amateur licence
[09:39] <jcoxon> g8tmv, yeah working in Worthing Hospital for a year
[09:39] <g8tmv> I realise that, isn't there a similar space on HF?
[09:40] <jcoxon> not accessibly
[09:40] <jcoxon> there is however 868mhz up to 500mW
[09:40] <g8tmv> What about if we called the balloon a satalite?
[09:40] <jcoxon> recently they changed the rules regarding that
[09:41] <jcoxon> g8tmv, :-D just not high enough methinks
[09:41] <g8tmv> I wonder what it would take to get a radio licence of some sort for the balloons
[09:43] <jcoxon> lots and lots and lots of work
[09:43] <jcoxon> has been tried and failed
[09:43] <jcoxon> ofcom are vey aware of the potential range of a airborne transmitter
[09:43] <jcoxon> 1W on 2m could knock out a lot
[09:44] <g8tmv> I was thinking more of something like an ssr transponder on very low power
[09:45] <g8tmv> I wonder what the lightest ssr transponder weighs (the sort used in gliders)
[09:45] <jcoxon> well you could get a NoV but again people have tried and failed
[09:45] <g8tmv> You could get a CAA aircraft station licence for that easily
[09:46] <g8tmv> then atc could give you a code prior to launch and they could track it too
[09:47] <jcoxon> thats no fun though :-p
[09:47] <g8tmv> not for us, no, but they might be a bit happier and look on us in a more profesional light
[09:48] <jcoxon> maybe, they are quite happy currently - we provide a reliable tracking system ourselves and inform them in advance with the correct permissions
[09:48] <jcoxon> last night the tower had closed before we launched
[09:49] <jcoxon> those transponders aren't that light unfortunately - you'd be just launching a transponder and thats it
[09:49] <g8tmv> Cambridge tower?
[09:49] <jcoxon> yes
[09:50] <jcoxon> (i know other towers could follow as well)
[09:50] <g8tmv> Did you notify someone else - like London Info
[09:50] <jcoxon> well there is a notam
[09:50] <jcoxon> so the permission requires a notam and then the local tower to launch are informed
[09:50] Action: g8tmv nods
[09:51] <jcoxon> remember it gets above controlled airspace very rapidly
[09:51] <LA3QMA> hmm so notam is ok. but sending a radio up in a balloon is more questionable?
[09:51] <g8tmv> err... the UIR goes to space - you can't get above it
[09:51] <g8tmv> LA3QMA: it;s the "unattended" problem
[09:52] <LA3QMA> g8tmv: ahh ok happy we don't have those rules here
[09:52] <jcoxon> g8tmv, its not the unattended actually its more that the amateur licence is only for the ground
[09:52] <jcoxon> radio licence laws are different for airborne
[09:52] <LA3QMA> have been reading about it and it seems quite na*i
[09:53] <LA3QMA> i have been using aprs in a microplane.
[09:53] <g8tmv> yeah, in most cases banning unattended operation is sensible, but it would be nice to have an exemption for say less than 100mW
[09:53] <jcoxon> g8tmv, apologies - above flight level 245
[09:54] <LA3QMA> how much helium is going into the balloon that where used yesterday?
[09:54] <g8tmv> jcoxon: ok, as you may have gathered I know about this stuff - I used to fly small stuff
[09:54] <jcoxon> g8tmv, i've cottoned on - hence the production of tech speak
[09:54] <jcoxon> yestedays flight was a bit more risque
[09:54] <jcoxon> a much slower ascent rate
[09:55] <g8tmv> I've got about 300 hours and another 5000 on simulators since I used to work in that industry
[09:55] <jcoxon> but a normal flight would get above that in about 30mins
[09:56] <jcoxon> so would still be in the cambridge atc zone as such
[09:56] <jcoxon> hence the discussion at launch
[09:56] Action: g8tmv nods
[09:56] <jcoxon> the metoffice ironed all this out years ago really - we just use their protocol as such
[09:57] <jcoxon> well 10mW is pretty impressive
[10:00] <jcoxon> right, time for the report email
[10:00] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[10:27] <juxta> LA3QMA: depends on the wieght of the payload and balloon size
[10:27] <juxta> generally 2-4 cubic meters though
[10:28] <LA3QMA> juxta: hmm ok
[10:29] <LA3QMA> so thinking of 50lit He bottles
[10:29] <juxta> hm, not sure on the volume in litres of what I use - we call them 'E' size cylinders here
[10:29] <juxta> let me look it up
[10:29] <LA3QMA> a friend of mine have 3balloons not sure the weight or volume. we are going to try to make a vertical antenna for 160m
[10:30] <LA3QMA> so my idea was after using it for antenna we could release one of the balloons with an aprs tracker :o)
[10:30] <jcoxon> LA3QMA, yeah thats a cool idea
[10:31] <LA3QMA> i tested the online prediction tool you have. and yesterday it was going into a non controlled airzone so not sure if we have to notify someone then
[10:32] <jcoxon> LA3QMA, probably best to ask anyway
[10:32] <LA3QMA> jcoxon: hehe yes
[10:32] <juxta> LA3QMA: not sure on the number of litres in the cylinder, but it's 3.4m^3 either way
[10:32] <LA3QMA> i have access to lotz of helium at work
[10:33] <juxta> and comes up to roughly my waist
[10:33] <LA3QMA> juxta: ok
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[10:34] <LA3QMA> then 50lit is the bigger version
[10:34] <LA3QMA> so one of those is enough for the balloon yesterday?
[10:34] <fsphil_> juxta, that's the middle sized boc canister isn't it?
[10:35] Nick change: M0RJX_Robert -> rjharrison
[10:35] <juxta> i'm not sure on the size of the balloon used or the mass of jcoxon's payload LA3QMA
[10:35] <juxta> fsphil_: not 100% sure, i don't get the gas from BOC, but here's a photo: http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/IMG_0914.jpg
[10:36] <fsphil_> yea that looks about righ
[10:36] <fsphil_> +t
[10:36] <jcoxon> 1.5kg balloon, total mass 1800g, 200g free lift
[10:36] <rjharrison> http://www.boconline.co.uk/products/gas_supply_options/helium_gas_cylinder_options.asp The T size is fine for one launch
[10:36] <LA3QMA> 50lit goes to the shoulders.. so then i think we have enough :o)
[10:36] <rjharrison> If you want to do more get the larger size it's cheaper
[10:37] <juxta> yep, looks like the T is pretty close to what I get
[10:37] <fsphil_> that's the one!
[10:37] <fsphil_> good to know it's enough, I've had that worry that it might not fill it
[10:37] <fsphil_> then the whole thing would have to be scrapped
[10:37] <rjharrison> I use the L size but transport is an ussue due to size and weight
[10:38] <juxta> yeah - the smaller one fits nicely in the backseat of the car
[10:39] <fsphil_> brb, breakfast!
[10:39] <LA3QMA> is the idea to get it as high as possible when releasing it so that the wind is taking it to wherever it's going?
[10:39] <juxta> fsphil_: i did a 1.5kg balloon with a small (400g) payload, I reckon i have about 1 cubic meter left
[10:41] <juxta> how do you manage to move the big ones about rjharrison?
[10:43] <jcoxon> monster flight report sent
[10:44] <juxta> jcoxon: was BH5 flying a lassen?
[10:45] <LA3QMA> how can you predict the burst altitude? is this the thickness of the balloon??
[10:45] <jcoxon> fsa03
[10:45] <jcoxon> with your code
[10:45] <jcoxon> LA3QMA, there are technical specifications
[10:45] <juxta> LA3QMA: the balloons have a specified burst diameter
[10:45] <LA3QMA> ahh ok :o) lotz of things to learn
[10:45] <jcoxon> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/
[10:46] <juxta> oh nice jcoxon, it works! :D
[10:49] <LA3QMA> can the parashoot just hang below the payload or do it require some mechanism ?
[10:50] <LA3QMA> its probably not a good idea dropping the parashoot hehe
[10:50] <LA3QMA> sorry for all these newbequestions
[10:51] <jcoxon> LA3QMA, questions are very welcome
[10:51] <jcoxon> have you seen the ukhas wiki?
[10:51] <LA3QMA> link?
[10:51] <jcoxon> http://ukhas.org.uk/
[10:51] <LA3QMA> tnx
[10:52] <LA3QMA> beginners guide :o) tnx
[10:53] <juxta> jcoxon: i'm going to try a different chut configuration next time
[10:55] <jcoxon> yeah?
[10:57] <LA3QMA> hmm maybe the first should be without a payload.
[10:57] <juxta> jcoxon: www.bogaurd.net/thing.png
[10:58] <juxta> excuse my mspaint finesse
[10:58] <jcoxon> haha, got to love ms paint
[10:58] <jcoxon> not worried its going to get tangled around the main line?
[10:59] <juxta> yeah that's my main concern
[10:59] <juxta> but I use swivels at every joint as it is
[10:59] <jcoxon> juxta, junderwood and edmoore are the parachute experts
[10:59] <juxta> will discuss it with them
[11:00] <juxta> I figured it might be worth trying as I noticed the ball of burst balloon was leading the way down the other day
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[11:26] <m1x10> hello mates
[11:26] <jcoxon> morning m1x10
[11:26] <m1x10> bad news: my GSM module got burned without obvious reason
[11:26] <m1x10> while arduino and GPS module kept working..
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[11:30] <m1x10> should I contact sparkfun for that?
[11:34] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: #bh5 #arhab Launch pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/ballasthalo5/ video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzsMS7RvChg [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/18262885718]
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[11:36] <Laurenceb> whats with the boat?
[11:37] <LazyLeopard> Heh. ;)
[11:37] <LazyLeopard> Methinks someone's jesting...
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[11:50] <jcoxon> bbl
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[12:01] <m1x10> bbl
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[12:06] <fsphil> nice picture from Rosetta --> http://www.esa.int/images/2_Lutetia_and_Saturn,0.jpg
[12:22] <fsphil> quick poll: compact payload box, or keep some space?
[12:22] <sbasuita> fsphil: i'd go compact so things don't dislodge on landing
[12:24] <fsphil> good thinking
[12:25] <g8tmv> easier to keep warm too
[12:25] <fsphil> though it might get too warm?
[12:25] <Laurenceb> yeah thats very important
[12:25] <Laurenceb> its -50C up there
[12:25] <g8tmv> not when it's -40 outside at alt
[12:25] <Laurenceb> if you look up the thermal resistance and work it out you usually want to go as small as poss
[12:25] <Laurenceb> wikipedia is your frend for some values
[12:26] <Laurenceb> bbl
[12:26] <g8tmv> the dump counter on yesterdays launch probably failed because it got too cold
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[12:27] <g8tmv> sbasuita: is anything happening about Debian packages for dl-fldigi?
[12:28] <sbasuita> g8tmv: not at the moment, no
[12:28] <sbasuita> g8tmv: do you think its suitable for debian?
[12:28] <g8tmv> ok, ping me when you have something ready
[12:28] <sbasuita> i guess we need to break out the hardcoded server variables etc for a start
[12:28] <g8tmv> yes, since it's probably better maintained then the original
[12:29] <sbasuita> g8tmv: ok when i get some time i'll work on it ;)
[12:29] <g8tmv> and ack on the hardcoded stuff
[12:32] <Randomskk> rjharrison: congrats on M0RHX!
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[13:00] <shauno> aw, just read the email. I didn't realise the chase boat was fictional
[13:00] <shauno> I can stop checking the tracker now :)
[13:01] <fsphil> d'oh!
[13:01] <fsphil> if only we had one though!
[13:02] <Randomskk> still an awesome gag on the map
[13:02] <Randomskk> shame I didn't have my radio
[13:11] <shauno> there was that greek chap on the mail list, whose plan actually revolved around chase boats (due to his launch site being tiny islands)
[13:11] <Randomskk> yea, he's been in here too
[13:11] <shauno> I'd be interested to hear how that goes
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[13:39] <fsphil_> rjharrison, the script I used for the remote control is here: http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/files/radio-ctrl.tar.gz
[13:39] <fsphil_> it's pretty crude but it worked nicely enough
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[14:56] <jonsowman> ping juxta
[14:56] <Randomskk> hi jonsowman
[14:56] <juxta> hey jonsowman
[14:57] <jonsowman> hello
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[14:57] <juxta> how's things?
[14:57] <jonsowman> was just wondering what software you use for the chase car gps info upload to the tracker
[14:57] <jonsowman> yeh fine thanks :) yourselfd?
[14:57] <Randomskk> how's apex going?
[14:57] <jonsowman> Randomskk: getting there :D
[14:57] <juxta> not bad - just working on a new super secret payload ;p
[14:57] <jonsowman> ionising radiation detectors working
[14:58] <juxta> an airborne FM 2M radio repeater, hehe
[14:58] <Randomskk> nice
[14:58] <fsphil> cool
[14:58] <juxta> jonsowman: it's just a few lines of java I wrote
[14:58] <eroomde> oh cool
[14:58] <eroomde> flying a repeater is a great idea
[14:58] <jonsowman> right ok :) was just wondering if it's pre-written software
[14:58] <juxta> I wrote it at work and it did the trick so it's not been touched :)
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[14:58] <jonsowman> excellent
[14:59] <eroomde> we were talking about floating one out to see last night (where it'd be legal)
[14:59] <jonsowman> will knock something together
[14:59] <juxta> you're welcome to it if you like, but it's nothing fancy
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[14:59] <jonsowman> if you don't mind
[14:59] <juxta> pm me and email and i'll shoot it through
[14:59] <juxta> an*
[14:59] <jonsowman> done :)
[14:59] <juxta> alrighty
[15:00] <juxta> eroomde: yeah, we're hoping for good results
[15:00] <juxta> also - I was going to ask your advice on parachutes!
[15:00] <eroomde> shoot
[15:00] <juxta> 1 sec
[15:00] <juxta> let me find my mspaint again
[15:00] <fsphil> eroomde, would there be any issue flying an rtty repeater using the license exempt modules?
[15:01] <eroomde> none at all I don't think
[15:01] <eroomde> provided you transmit on a license exempt (and allowed for airborne) mode then i think it's all dinkum
[15:01] <juxta> eroomde: this is a configuration I'm thinking of trying out: http://bogaurd.net/thing.png
[15:01] <eroomde> you'd probably want a decently sensitive recieiver onboard I imagine
[15:02] <eroomde> juxta: how would you stop inflation on the way up?
[15:02] <eroomde> or do you not mind that
[15:03] <juxta> i thought about that - but i guess the drag on a small (36 inch) inflated chute is small compared to that on a 2-10m balloon
[15:03] <eroomde> that's true, and it reduces as it goes up
[15:03] <fsphil> I'm probably just going to use the RX version of the NTX2 (NRX2?)
[15:03] <juxta> the reason for wanting to try it is that I suspected the big ball of burst balloon would be the heaviest thing on the way down, and when we saw the payload coming down the other day that was def. how it was falling
[15:03] <eroomde> yep that's good reasoning
[15:04] <eroomde> especially with light payloads
[15:04] <juxta> yeah
[15:04] <juxta> this was a 400g payload
[15:04] <juxta> with a 1.5kg balloon
[15:05] <juxta> eroomde: do you guys ever get clean burst?
[15:05] <eroomde> yep quite often
[15:06] <juxta> hmm
[15:06] <juxta> so far mine have all just turned into a massive ball of shredded rubber
[15:06] <eroomde> most of the time in fact. usually when we don't it's an old balloon with a bit of UV exposure
[15:06] <juxta> what's left over? just the neck?
[15:08] <eroomde> yep
[15:08] <eroomde> and that usually falls down beneath the parachute
[15:08] <eroomde> or infact floats above if there's a decently heavy payload
[15:09] <juxta> hmm
[15:10] <juxta> by the way, if you'd been in Melbourne the other day you would have been able to RX our payload near the end of the flight I reckon ;)
[15:10] <eroomde> i'll definitely try if i end up there
[15:10] <juxta> hehe
[15:11] <eroomde> we'll have a veritable AUHAS
[15:11] <juxta> balloon went about 140km
[15:11] <juxta> so it was porbably only 500km LOS to Melb
[15:11] <juxta> probably*
[15:12] <jonsowman> might try that parachute configuration with apex
[15:12] <eroomde> a decent yagi and that'd be easy
[15:12] <juxta> how much distance do you put between the balloon and payload, Ed?
[15:12] <juxta> don't forget we have 25mW here too
[15:13] <eroomde> so on nova 18 i put 20m from payload to parachute and then 10m from apex to parachute to balloon
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[15:13] <eroomde> apex of parachute*
[15:15] <juxta> hmm
[15:16] <juxta> I had issues with my first launch where the balloon didn't cleanly burst and it entangled my chute and radar reflector
[15:16] <juxta> so everything fell as a big ball of fun and hit the ground at about 60km/h
[15:16] <eroomde> ouch
[15:16] <juxta> this time I spaced it out a lot more
[15:17] <juxta> not sure on numbers though
[15:17] <eroomde> what chutes do you use?
[15:17] <juxta> sphereachutes
[15:17] <eroomde> some designs are definitely more stable that others, which helps in terms of tangling up on the way down
[15:17] <juxta> here's the balloon train: http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/IMG_0925.jpg
[15:17] <eroomde> oh ok, I understand they're pretty decent so there's probably not much gain to be had from trying something else
[15:18] <juxta> jonsowman: sorry, I got sidetracked, but have sent you the code now :)
[15:18] <jonsowman> thanks :D
[15:19] <juxta> eroomde: I think the radar reflectors we fly are terribly unstable on the way down
[15:19] <juxta> I use fishing swivels to prevent twsting/tangling, but the reflectors still make a mess of things
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[15:20] <eroomde> juxta: you could make an aerodynamic baffle for it out of parachute nylon or something
[15:20] <eroomde> that shouldn't affect its radio visibility
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[15:20] <juxta> you mean a tail type thing?
[15:20] <eroomde> yeah re: your picture, i'd be inclined to fly the parachute much higher
[15:21] <eroomde> that way you have more mass hanging beneath it, rather than above it colapsing onto it, so it'll be very much more stable
[15:21] <eroomde> and the whole payload wil swing less on the way down
[15:21] <juxta> hmm
[15:21] <juxta> this is how it fell:
[15:21] <juxta> http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/IMG_0933.jpg
[15:22] <juxta> the white mass at the bottom is the balloon/radar reflector tangle
[15:22] <jonsowman> haha thats an excellent picture
[15:22] <juxta> :D
[15:23] <juxta> sadly we goofed up on the video, haha
[15:23] <Hiena> Wow, what nice idea. Just what i need for the picosatellite.
[15:24] <juxta> Hiena: someone to chase it on foot?
[15:24] <Hiena> I could use the connection wire as antennae and the reflector as the balance.
[15:25] <juxta> jonsowman: re the car tracker, you should be able to use it straight out if you switch off the passthrough
[15:25] <Hiena> Nah, i'm working on a really small. long wave satellite.
[15:26] <juxta> I use com0com to setup a virtual port pair, then pass GPS data in one end and our offline tracking software reads it out the other end
[15:26] <juxta> Hiena: awesome - a cubesat?
[15:26] <Hiena> Smaller. I'm under 20g at this moment.
[15:27] <juxta> wow!
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> Nprize?
[15:27] <Hiena> Kind of.
[15:27] <Hiena> It's a PIC 12F683 and few transistor.
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> I had a sketch of one - webcam + magnetorquers + SD + CPU + solar in ~20g
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> STM32
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> well - not webcam - but mobile phone imager
[15:28] <Hiena> The solar is the tricky part. Kind of heavy.
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> I was looking at 4* emcore nice solar cells
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> the 6*2cm*30% ones
[15:29] <Hiena> I used the Practiker solar lamp ones. ;)
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> If not - there are some very light solar cells in consideration for flying solar stuff
[15:30] <Hiena> It comes, with a step-up regulator. ;)
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=961876
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> that forum has discussions also of solar cells
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> powerfilm?
[15:31] <Hiena> Nah. Small 0.6V scraps embeedded in resin and 4 pin solid state step-up converter.
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> I was meaning http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/
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[15:32] <SpeedEvil> it's quite light
[15:35] <Hiena> No budget.
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.com/Powerfilm-Flexible-Solar-Panel-MP3-25/dp/B002MF2XCO
[15:36] <Hiena> I'm playing from my lunch money.
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't get much cheaper :)
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> 150W/Kg isn't actually bad
[15:43] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, the solar lamp around 2 USD here. what i got from this money: Step up converter, solar panel, NI-CD battery, a switch and a white led.
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[15:43] <SpeedEvil> IMO - going quite that cheap is probably not very sensible, as you want to get something that works optimally
[15:45] <Hiena> Actually, if you use clever way, what you have, you could get a same results.
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> I'm not saying buying enormously expensive stuff.
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> But - say - 4 of the above cells configured in two wings rotated at 90 degrees.
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> Would cost $15 or so, and give you 60mW out in most any orientation
[15:50] <Hiena> Yeah, but for example, if i buy from the amazon, only the postal cost of these things would be at least $12. And for such price i could buy a hypercap which could support a 1W burst for every minutes, with a cheaper solar cells.
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> I would not go with hypercap, but with a small li-ion cell
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> However - I'd suggest you're starting at the wrong end.
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> Work out what is required to detect the payload in an uncertain orbit - how sensitive is your detector.
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> Work out the footprint of the beam or light you can make - work out the required output power
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> then go from that to LED power.
[15:53] <Hiena> Same thing. Also, working on buget reduce the failure costs. If i lost one sattelite well, that means, i'll skip 4 lunch.
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> If it works out at kilowatts, you need to change your assumption.
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> where are you launching sats for the cost of lunch? :)
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> And obviously - is it open to others?
[15:54] <Hiena> Nope. Guess the launch cost would be cut from my other expensives.
[15:54] <jonsowman> who sent that location save request?
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[15:55] <Hiena> The satellite price is around the 4 lunch. And i eats small lunches.
[15:55] <jnd> how much is the launch for such thing?
[15:56] <Randomskk> it seems like the launch cost would be a lifetime of lunches
[15:57] <jonsowman> juxta: haven't got that email ;\
[15:57] <juxta> oh
[15:57] <griffonbot> @CollegeARC: RT @jamescoxon: #bh5 #arhab Launch pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/ballasthalo5/ video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzsMS ... [http://twitter.com/CollegeARC/status/18276589442]
[15:57] <juxta> jonsowman: sec
[15:58] <Hiena> Dunno. If you do on the right way. (papers, decent vehicle) It could be around 20K USD from the russians. They are open to use any picosatellite as bubblewrap.
[16:01] <juxta> jonsowman: link work?
[16:01] <jonsowman> yes, thanks :D
[16:01] <juxta> cool cool
[16:01] <juxta> I was going to ask you something too, I remember now ;p
[16:01] <juxta> are you back from Germany? ;p
[16:02] <jonsowman> I am
[16:02] <juxta> alrighty
[16:02] <jonsowman> I came back the day after I went there haha
[16:02] <juxta> heh, okay
[16:02] <jonsowman> was a business trip to bring a car back here :)
[16:03] <juxta> oh right, nice
[16:03] <juxta> don't the Germans drive on the wrong side of the road though?
[16:03] <jonsowman> yes
[16:03] <jonsowman> indeed
[16:05] <juxta> I have a German friend who came with me on a road trip - after driving on a windy road for some time I looked behind me and saw he'd been driving on the wrong side of road for some time
[16:05] <jonsowman> :O
[16:05] <juxta> but anyway, this is what I was going to ask you about: www.bogaurd.net/broken.jpg
[16:06] <jonsowman> oh dear
[16:06] <jonsowman> it tends to do that if you go outisde the lat/lon deltas
[16:06] <jonsowman> did you try increasing it?
[16:06] <juxta> ah
[16:06] <juxta> I did not think of that
[16:06] <juxta> shouldnt have gone out of range though
[16:07] <juxta> let me try again
[16:07] <jonsowman> I realise I should implement something to warn the user of this when it happens
[16:07] <jonsowman> again it's on the todo list
[16:07] <jonsowman> have you tried running it again?
[16:07] <juxta> trying again now jonsowman, it was doing that for a few days
[16:07] <juxta> I thought you were still in Germany so I switched to the old predictor
[16:08] <jonsowman> Ah sorry didn't realise you were after me :)
[16:08] <juxta> haha, no biggie
[16:08] <jonsowman> I just ran it - worked fine
[16:08] <juxta> yep, seems to be working now
[16:08] <jonsowman> hmm interesting
[16:08] <jonsowman> if it does it again - shout
[16:08] <juxta> I can give you the uuid if you want
[16:09] <juxta> of a bad prediction
[16:09] <jonsowman> yeh go for it
[16:09] <juxta> let me search the logs, sec
[16:09] <jonsowman> okay
[16:09] <juxta> irc logs that is
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> 20kusd / 4 = beeeg lunches.
[16:10] <juxta> I think it was this one: http://hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict/#!/uuid=c00dfb9cf7a8b0b20082dce163b5203eb47648b3
[16:10] <juxta> no longer there though :(
[16:11] <jonsowman> oh sorry
[16:11] <jonsowman> hmm
[16:11] <jonsowman> well if it does it again, give me a shout
[16:11] <juxta> hehe, ok
[16:12] <juxta> re the car tracker - if you prepend 'chase-'
[16:12] <juxta> in the config, the tracker will display a car pic
[16:12] <jonsowman> brilliant
[16:12] <jonsowman> thanks for that :)
[16:12] <juxta> (damn accidental return)
[16:12] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: don't forget the payload cost, it's more like 20.01k USD / 4
[16:12] <Hiena> Yeah.
[16:13] <Randomskk> aww. my online banking only gives the last few pages of credit card statements
[16:13] <Hiena> But i nver mentioned my other expensives. ;)
[16:14] <Randomskk> do you consume a couple of carets of diamond a day as part of a healthy balanced lunch?
[16:15] <Hiena> You know, how much is the cleaning cost of an all purpose hazmat suit? And that just my dry-cleaner bill. ;)
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[16:20] <jonsowman> thanks for that :)
[16:20] <jonsowman> ignore.
[16:25] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[16:25] <Randomskk> yo
[16:25] <jonsowman> hi jcoxon
[16:28] <jonsowman> jcoxon: can i ask a favour?
[16:30] <jcoxon> jonsowman, hey, depends what :-p
[16:30] <jonsowman> any chance I could ask for that dl-fldigi bug to be fixed?
[16:30] <jonsowman> the one where it crashes when it has no net connection
[16:30] <jcoxon> the offline bug - yeah
[16:30] <jcoxon> what OS ?
[16:31] <jonsowman> otherwise it's going to cause us much annoyance on saturday!
[16:31] <jonsowman> OS X and Windows please?
[16:31] <jcoxon> i will look into it this week
[16:32] <jonsowman> thank you :)
[16:32] <jonsowman> much appreciated
[16:32] <g8tmv> jcoxon: I've also noticed that it sometimes segfaults on shutdown if the rig-cat cable has already been disconeccted
[16:34] <jcoxon> please file an issue http://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/issues
[16:34] <jcoxon> or i'll forget
[16:34] <jonsowman> jcoxon: should I do one for the offline bug or not?
[16:35] <jcoxon> yes please
[16:35] <fsphil> I think there already is one for that bug
[16:35] <jcoxon> thats only at startup
[16:35] <fsphil> ah so it is
[16:36] <jonsowman> done :)
[16:36] <fsphil> though I suspect it's the same bug
[16:38] <jcoxon> brb
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[16:41] <jcoxon> hmmm you guys are going to have to give me more info on your crashes
[16:42] <jcoxon> on OS X I can startup + randomly disconnect and it doesn't crash
[16:42] <juxta> jcoxon: let me grab my laptop and test for you
[16:42] <jcoxon> and then it copes when i reconnect
[16:43] <jcoxon> there are a number of things to test
[16:43] <jcoxon> please run in a terminal
[16:43] <jcoxon> and stick the output on the issue
[16:48] <jcoxon> brb doing more tests
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[16:50] <jcoxon> yeah and it'll startup fine with no config files but this is just on OS X
[16:50] <jcoxon> and the latest code on my master
[16:51] <g8tmv> Hmm.. jcoxon: I just pulled jamescoxon-dl-fldigi-v3.20.1.r111.1-0-gf58c6e4.tar.gz
[16:52] <g8tmv> when I unpack it and run autoreconf I get errors
[16:52] <jcoxon> autoreconf -vfi ?
[16:52] <g8tmv> it doesn't say to use any options in the README or INSTALL
[16:52] <jcoxon> its autoconf -vfi
[16:54] <g8tmv> autoreconf -vfi works - you need to fix the INSTALL file in the tarball
[16:54] <jcoxon> g8tmv, i need to do a lot of things :-)
[16:54] <g8tmv> yeah, but build instructions tha tdon't work really pisses people off
[16:55] <g8tmv> and makes them give up usually
[16:55] <jcoxon> g8tmv, http://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/blob/master/INSTALL.dl-fldigi
[16:55] <jcoxon> agreed thats only recently added
[16:56] <jcoxon> remember we've built up from fldigi
[16:56] <g8tmv> most people will do what I did...
[16:56] <g8tmv> download tarball, unpack it, read README and INSTALL
[16:56] <g8tmv> result: it fails
[16:56] <Randomskk> tbh you're lucky if they read install
[16:56] <Randomskk> why don't we have a normal makefile or cmake or configure
[16:57] <jcoxon> sure but in the latest code it has a INSTALL.dl-fldigi and a README.dl-fldigi
[16:57] <jcoxon> r111 is still beta
[16:57] <Randomskk> yea, fair enough
[16:57] <Randomskk> also it's awesome
[16:57] <g8tmv> it's shipped without a configure script - the incorrect step in the INSTALL generates it
[16:58] <g8tmv> anyway - lets see if it actually builds now I've got a .configure
[16:58] <jcoxon> ha if you think we are bad you should see fldigi
[16:58] <Randomskk> :P
[16:58] <jcoxon> dl-fldigi is much better maintained
[16:59] <g8tmv> is libcurl a new dependancy?
[16:59] <g8tmv> I'm sure the previous version I tried built ok
[16:59] <jcoxon> its a difference between dl-fldigi and fldigi
[16:59] <g8tmv> Hmm.. ok
[17:04] <g8tmv> right, it configured, now lets try a make
[17:04] <jcoxon> g8tmv, so little faith
[17:04] <jcoxon> :-D
[17:05] <g8tmv> I'm a kernel developer - guess what I spend most of my time doing?
[17:05] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:05] <g8tmv> how badly un-maintained is fl-digi
[17:07] <jcoxon> well they are developing constantly
[17:07] <jcoxon> but for example we had to work out how to compile it
[17:07] <jcoxon> especially on windows
[17:07] <jcoxon> their documentation is old
[17:07] <jcoxon> but there is a sort of reason for this
[17:07] <jcoxon> their audience want binaries
[17:07] <fsphil> unable to reproduce the bug on linux
[17:07] <jcoxon> and so thats what they get
[17:08] <g8tmv> yeah, that is pretty normal
[17:08] <jcoxon> but they have moved to Git on BerliOS
[17:08] <jcoxon> so maybe it'll improve :-p
[17:08] <g8tmv> Are they not interested in the dl- part? Is that why you forked it
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[17:09] <jcoxon> g8tmv, yeah, it doesn't suit what they are making - and we made extensive changes
[17:10] <jcoxon> but they know about it
[17:10] <g8tmv> pity really to fork it
[17:11] <jcoxon> its not an agressive fork
[17:11] <jcoxon> dl-fldigi is a seperate entity really
[17:11] <Randomskk> we still git merge with them occasionally though
[17:11] <Randomskk> it's not really a fork so much as more code on top
[17:11] <jcoxon> a modification
[17:12] <jcoxon> dl-fldigi is for a small audience anyway
[17:12] <jcoxon> compared to the popularity of fldigi
[17:15] <Randomskk> anyone feel like glancing an eye over a pcb layout? just looking for feedback on anything obvious or any suggestions
[17:19] <g8tmv> ok, it built and it runs, but it doesn't seem to use the same config dir in my $Home
[17:20] <g8tmv> anyone remind me how to make rigcat know about my 817 again - looks like the new version of dl-fldigi can't find the database that the old version could see
[17:20] <fsphil> g8tmv, if you want you can copy ~/.fldigi to ~/.dl-fldigi
[17:20] <fsphil> it should carry across all your settings
[17:22] <fsphil> actually, I lied - it won't
[17:22] <fsphil> forgot the config files themselves have been renamed
[17:23] <g8tmv> ok - I'll have a play
[17:26] <fsphil> I'm gonna have to dig out my mac, see if I can break it there
[17:26] <fsphil> or, if it even builds :)
[17:27] <jcoxon> fsphil, pah
[17:29] <fsphil> it's a ppc mac, old version of osx
[17:29] <fsphil> if it works there, it'll work everywhere
[17:30] <g8tmv> Hmm... I'm back to the problem I had before and now I remember tha tsomeone sent me a staticly linked binary because it can't find a usable sound card. Even though sound works for everything else
[17:31] <Randomskk> I could probably send you another statically linked binary if you wanted, but it might be good to get it working locally
[17:31] <Randomskk> when you run configure
[17:31] <Randomskk> at the end, it says what libs it's enabled
[17:31] <Randomskk> what've you got?
[17:31] <g8tmv> let me look
[17:31] <g8tmv> fldigi build options:
[17:31] <g8tmv> sndfile ..................... no oss ......................... yes portaudio ................... no pulseaudio .................. yes
[17:31] <g8tmv> hamlib ...................... no xmlrpc ...................... no
[17:32] <g8tmv> erk that didn't paste very well
[17:32] <Randomskk> well enough
[17:32] <Randomskk> maybe you need portaudio
[17:32] <g8tmv> but pulse audio is giving: E: trx_trx_receive_loop: PulseAudio error: Connection refused
[17:32] <fsphil> portaudio is the best supported
[17:32] <jcoxon> port audio is best
[17:32] <Randomskk> get the portaudio dev package/headers
[17:33] <g8tmv> ok, let me grab the packages for that and rebuild
[17:33] <Randomskk> libportaudio-dev on ubuntu/debian
[17:33] Action: g8tmv nods
[17:37] <fsphil> hah, registering on apple for xcode - firefox crashed
[17:38] <g8tmv> Hmm.. still portaudio ................... no even after rebuilding the configure file
[17:39] <fsphil> can you run this: $ find /usr/include -name \*portaudio\*
[17:44] <g8tmv> /usr/include/portaudio.h
[17:44] <g8tmv> sorry to be slow, was looking at other stuff
[17:44] <g8tmv> and I've just realised - it's probably cached the dir
[17:45] <g8tmv> the paths that is
[17:46] <g8tmv> Hmm.. maybe not
[17:46] <g8tmv> but something is definitely odd, because it hasn't found my hamlib install either
[17:47] <Randomskk> you could always give configure the paths
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[17:50] <g8tmv> Hm.. Do I need the portaudio C++ bindings too?
[17:50] <Randomskk> worth grabbing, it is a c++ project
[17:50] <g8tmv> right
[17:51] <g8tmv> no, still not finding it
[17:52] <Randomskk> perhaps --with-portaudio
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[18:00] <natrium42> yo
[18:01] <g8tmv> Randomskk: it's saying No package 'portaudio-2.0' found when I try that, but it is installed, however portaudio 0 also appears to be installed
[18:01] <g8tmv> I don't have any more time now - I'll look again later
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[19:16] <fsphil> xcode downloaded, apples site is almost as confusing as microsofts
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[19:59] <russss> http://blog.jgc.org/2010/07/gaga-1.html
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[22:24] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:25] <jonsowman> hi jcoxon
[22:25] <jonsowman> how's things?
[22:25] <jcoxon> good thanks
[22:25] <jcoxon> was unable to find your bugs in OS X
[22:25] <jcoxon> haven't tried windows
[22:25] <jonsowman> interesting
[22:25] <jcoxon> that is with hte latest code though
[22:26] <jcoxon> if you can recreate it then i'll roll a new copy and you can try that
[22:26] <jonsowman> recreate the bug?
[22:26] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:26] <jonsowman> right
[22:26] <jonsowman> in r111?
[22:26] <jcoxon> yeah though it would be worth running from the console
[22:26] <jcoxon> to get the debug
[22:26] <jonsowman> will do
[22:27] <jonsowman> i don't have any of the kit at the moment - would be easy to recreate on windows
[22:27] <jonsowman> Matt_soton has all the kit and can recreate the problem, but he's a Windows person
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[22:28] <Matt_soton> me?
[22:28] <jonsowman> yes you
[22:29] <Matt_soton> this the dlfldigi crashing bug?
[22:29] <jonsowman> yes
[22:29] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, i can't recreate it on OS X
[22:30] <jcoxon> and would be good to get some debug output if you can make it crash on windows
[22:30] <Matt_soton> if you start it while not connected to the iternet it crashes
[22:30] Action: jcoxon doesn't run windows
[22:30] <Matt_soton> also if it looses internet connection
[22:30] <jonsowman> it starts fine on OSX when not connected to net
[22:31] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: did we ever see this bug in OSX? i cannot remember
[22:31] <jonsowman> perhaps this is a Windows only bug?
[22:32] <Matt_soton> ive only seen it on windows
[22:32] <jonsowman> jcoxon: any reports of this bug in OSX or linux?
[22:32] <Matt_soton> i can send the error report but i dont know how helpful itll b
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[22:34] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, better then nothing
[22:34] <jcoxon> really don't want to install windows
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[22:34] <ms7821> http://sn.im/ie-vhd
[22:35] <jcoxon> ms7821, ?
[22:35] <jcoxon> oh right - images
[22:35] <Matt_soton> hmm, windows doesnt seem to want you to be able to copy the text out hte box...
[22:37] <ms7821> is there a bug report?
[22:37] <jonsowman> heh
[22:37] <jonsowman> helpful
[22:37] <Matt_soton> well its only really a memory dump
[22:37] <jcoxon> better then the current issue on git hub!
[22:38] <jonsowman> apologies
[22:38] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:40] <Matt_soton> the message is 'Unhandled exception at 0x755a43df in dl-fldigi.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x00000006.'
[22:40] <jcoxon> hmmm
[22:40] <jcoxon> is there any chance you could run it from the console
[22:42] <ms7821> oops
[22:42] <ms7821> is the dump online?
[22:43] <jonsowman> i must disappear - work tomorrow
[22:43] <jonsowman> good luck sorting this out, thanks for helping jcoxon
[22:44] <jcoxon> ha - really need some output
[22:44] <jcoxon> but will look into it
[22:44] <Matt_soton> ive been trying to use visual studio to debug.. may not work
[22:46] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, it should output a load if run in a 'console'
[22:46] <jcoxon> i'll run it in wine
[22:47] <Matt_soton> oh ok
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[22:47] <Matt_soton> if i try to load it from console it just crashes b4 then
[22:48] <Matt_soton> and its only the --hab version
[22:48] <jcoxon> if you load the non --hab version
[22:48] <jcoxon> and then go to the dl client menu and click online does it crash?
[22:49] <Matt_soton> i havnt known the non hab one to crash
[22:50] <jcoxon> okay need to go offline :-p
[22:50] <jcoxon> brb
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[22:52] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, http://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/issues/#issue/1
[22:53] <Matt_soton> yea
[22:54] <jcoxon> okay
[22:54] <Matt_soton> also if it loads with connection, itll crash when it tries to upload if its since lost connection
[22:54] <jcoxon> will have a browse
[22:55] <Matt_soton> actually, putting non hab into online mode crashes it
[22:55] <jcoxon> i only work on OS X
[22:55] <jcoxon> yeah i suspected that
[22:55] <jcoxon> will get back to you...
[22:55] <Matt_soton> ok thanls
[22:55] <Matt_soton> thanks
[23:00] <ms7821> is there a dl-fldigi channel?
[23:00] <jcoxon> ms7821, well sort of - #highaltitude99 is where we discuss matters
[23:00] <jcoxon> but most discussion is mainly here
[23:00] <ms7821> fair enough
[23:00] <jcoxon> very welcome to help out :-p
[23:01] <jcoxon> i'm really not a programmer
[23:01] <jcoxon> brb
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[23:14] <jcoxon> hmmm for some reason line 376 in misc/dl_fldigi.cxx seems to be the culprit
[23:14] <jcoxon> it sig 11s mid way through the string it seems
[23:20] <fsphil> it crashing in wine?
[23:20] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:21] <fsphil> I'm afraid my attempts at building it on osx where fruitless
[23:21] <jcoxon> fsphil, where did it fall apart?
[23:21] <fsphil> autoreconf -vfi ;-)
[23:21] <fsphil> the first hurdle
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[23:22] <jcoxon> fsphil, http://wiki.github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/
[23:22] <jcoxon> whats the error?
[23:23] <fsphil> aclocal: macro 'AM_PROG_MKDIR_P' required but not defined
[23:23] <fsphil> again with AM_INTL_SUBDIR
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[23:24] <jcoxon> use macport to get the latest autoconf/automake
[23:25] <ms7821> why have you got multiple calls to curl_easy_init and curl_easy_cleanup?
[23:26] <jcoxon> lines?
[23:26] <jcoxon> DanielRichman wrote this code
[23:26] <jcoxon> but i've worked with curl before
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[23:31] <ms7821> you're using the same curl handle on multiple threads
[23:31] <ms7821> that's not meant to be allowed
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[23:31] <ms7821> oh wait, t isn't a thread... ignore that
[23:34] <ms7821> hmm looks from other bug reports like you can't even hand over a handle to another thread
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[23:39] <jcoxon> ms7821, something to discuss with DanielRichman :-p
[23:39] <natrium42> hi
[23:39] <jcoxon> it currently works very well
[23:39] <natrium42> jcoxon, i fixed handling of out-of-order positions
[23:39] <jcoxon> natrium42, your chase boat has caused so much problems :-p
[23:39] <jcoxon> people have been very confused!
[23:39] <natrium42> now it will insert it correctly by sequence numbers (they have to be right though!)
[23:39] <jcoxon> hmmm not sure if thats totally sensible
[23:39] <natrium42> jcoxon, what is it with brits and sarcasm detection? ;P
[23:40] <jcoxon> natrium42, i think people think we are so brilliant that we could actually do it
[23:40] <jcoxon> :-p
[23:40] <natrium42> "boat" is gone
[23:40] <natrium42> wtb boat icon for the future
[23:40] <jcoxon> natrium42, the issue with using sequence number is when the payload resets
[23:41] <jcoxon> its going to get the correct time from the gps but will reset its sequence number
[23:41] <natrium42> yeah, should be stored in eeprom
[23:41] <jcoxon> i'd go with time over sequence number
[23:41] <natrium42> should i sort it by gps time then?
[23:41] <jcoxon> and i'll fix my padding issue :-p
[23:41] <jcoxon> i think so
[23:41] <natrium42> k
[23:41] <jcoxon> best get other opinions
[23:41] <natrium42> well, rob is sending server time to me now :/
[23:42] <natrium42> rjharrison, plz2fixit
[23:42] <natrium42> it must be gps time
[23:42] <jcoxon> natrium42, i think its time we had a 'virtual' meeting
[23:42] <jcoxon> to work out what to do next as i fear the whole system growing out of control :-p
[23:42] <natrium42> sure
[23:42] <natrium42> it should really be combined into one
[23:42] <jcoxon> also perhaps we should start working towards a launch...
[23:43] <jcoxon> :-p
[23:44] Action: Randomskk still wants to see epic amalgamation of the different things
[23:44] <Randomskk> predictor, hourly predictions, tracker, project wiki, dl-fldigi
[23:45] <natrium42> would be cool
[23:45] Action: Randomskk still imagines a website you can log in to that shows you current predictions for your various payloads, previous flights, currently happening flights, etc and then you log into dl-fldigi and it knows what payloads you track most often and where to put the data and all that
[23:46] <Randomskk> equally with separation between the client and the website so that anyone can run their own server if they really wanted, but with all the community advantages of using the hosted one
[23:46] <jcoxon> Randomskk, those dl-fldigi additions are a little unnecessary
[23:46] <Randomskk> true
[23:46] <jcoxon> yes thats coming
[23:46] <Randomskk> all dl-fldigi needs is a URL box
[23:46] <jcoxon> thats coming
[23:46] <Randomskk> yea :P
[23:46] <Randomskk> and I know I just sit here and whine when I could actually go program it
[23:46] <Randomskk> >.>
[23:46] <jcoxon> give us time
[23:46] <natrium42> :)
[23:47] Action: jcoxon hasn't got a payload anylonger and no pcbs so has a bit more time...
[23:47] Action: Randomskk just sent off his most recent PCB to be made, so has a few days to do something else
[23:47] <Randomskk> not hab related really though
[23:47] <Randomskk> meanwhile there's apex 2 launching on saturday and I'll be in cambs for that by the looks of things
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: It ended up in the water?
[23:47] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, ummm yeah
[23:47] <Randomskk> however I am now working a full time day job programming C++
[23:47] Action: SpeedEvil ponders a ocean current predictor.
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> :/
[23:48] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, the pump worked
[23:48] <jcoxon> it worked a bit too well
[23:48] <jcoxon> and dumped all the ballast
[23:48] <Randomskk> so when I finally crawl home at 7pm or so and make myself some dinner, the last thing I want to do is more programming
[23:48] <jcoxon> so float broke
[23:48] <Randomskk> jcoxon: still, at least you live and learn, in this case to do ascent rate detection to stop pumping
[23:48] <jcoxon> Randomskk, thats pretty fair
[23:48] <Randomskk> or a better sensor :P
[23:48] <Randomskk> jcoxon: still I end up doing it because really I enjoy it
[23:48] <jcoxon> i seem to always live and learn
[23:48] <Randomskk> more recently has been pcb stuff but it's done now
[23:49] <Randomskk> http://github.com/randomskk/SelWX/raw/master/pcb/selwx_r1/selwx_r1_board.png was this week's work really
[23:50] <jcoxon> yeah but when was he really last here...
[23:50] <Randomskk> next week might be a django web frontend for it, or my university computing coursework
[23:50] <Randomskk> which is horrid, absolutely horrid
[23:50] <jcoxon> haha i don't even know the commands for my own bot
[23:50] <jcoxon> !commands
[23:51] <Randomskk> they provide a single, 2100 line file full of global functions, totally internally inconsistent - some camelcase, some underscores, some both, some return values, some modify input parameters, some take an input and an output, none of it is documented
[23:51] <jcoxon> yuk
[23:51] <Randomskk> it could be C, except that it uses passing by reference and other C++ only things
[23:51] <Randomskk> what it doesn't use is classes, namespaces, STL, anything good or worthwhile
[23:52] <Randomskk> no unit tests either
[23:53] <Randomskk> I'm either going to just patch my own code in and hope for the best, or scrap all their shit and rewrite it in a way that's good and proper
[23:53] <Randomskk> there's £200 first place prize money, and 3x £100 second place prize money, up for grabs
[23:54] <Randomskk> making it worth a day or two of programming
[23:59] <jcoxon> okay time to sign off for a bit
[23:59] <jcoxon> night
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[00:00] --- Mon Jul 12 2010