highaltitude.log.20100704

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[09:39] <jonsowman> morning all
[09:40] <jonsowman> anyone got any ideas about talking TSIP to the lassen iq
[09:40] <jonsowman> apparently it needs odd parity by default?
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[14:46] <jonsowman> where did the REV button go in dl-fldigi r111
[14:46] <jonsowman> switching the radio to LSB is far too much effort :P
[14:50] <DanielRichman> are you using --hab mode or not?
[14:51] <jonsowman> yes
[14:51] <DanielRichman> I um... don't think it's there :P
[14:52] <jonsowman> :(
[14:52] <DanielRichman> It probably should be there though, you're right
[14:53] <jonsowman> ah well, not the end of the world
[14:54] <jonsowman> :)
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[15:06] <DanielRichman> I have absolutely no idea where that button has gone though
[15:08] <jonsowman> interesting
[15:08] <griffonbot> @superlaunch: Preparations are just about ready in Hutch. I hope to get the timeslot scheds out yet this weekend. #GPSL #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/superlaunch/status/17722364305]
[15:09] <DanielRichman> ahhh jonsowman I've found it
[15:10] <DanielRichman> are you building your own dl-fldigis or are you on windows?
[15:11] <griffonbot> @projecttraveler: Got another Radio Shack HT, and some new LiPo batteries for GPSL. Plan to begin flight testing the week of the 12th. #GPSL #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/projecttraveler/status/17722537556]
[15:11] <jonsowman> os x
[15:11] <DanielRichman> jonsowman: http://github.com/danielrichman/dl-fldigi/commit/24fe0c66e171d671e352c32e72dda1c2a6ee1f11
[15:12] <jonsowman> :D
[15:12] <jonsowman> will give that a go in a bit, debugging apex atm
[15:12] <jonsowman> crc16 is proving annoying
[15:12] <DanielRichman> I uh... don't know if the button actually works
[15:12] <DanielRichman> but it appears
[15:13] <jonsowman> haha thanks
[15:13] <jonsowman> will try it :)
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[15:14] <jonsowman> any ideas on what initial value and final XOR value the tracker needs for CRC16?
[15:14] <jonsowman> and the polynomial?
[15:14] <DanielRichman> it's crc 16 ccitt (or something)
[15:15] <DanielRichman> wiki confirms; CRC16_CCITT
[15:15] <jonsowman> right
[15:15] <DanielRichman> if you're on avr there's an avr libc function to do that... but iirc you're a PIC fan?
[15:16] <jonsowman> yeh this is a picaxe, due to certain limiting factors
[15:16] <jonsowman> we have the crc16 code running, but not getting the right thing out
[15:16] <jonsowman> does the red fldigi bar mean invalid checksum?
[15:17] <DanielRichman> I think that's the idea yeah. I am almost certain it works for XOR, don't know about CCITT
[15:17] <jonsowman> ok
[15:17] <DanielRichman> here
[15:17] <DanielRichman> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__util__crc.html#gca726c22a1900f9bad52594c8846115f
[15:18] <DanielRichman> xmodem's crc == crc 16 ccitt
[15:20] <DanielRichman> ahh yes it would appear that there is ccitt checking code in dl-fldigi
[15:20] <DanielRichman> it should work
[15:22] <jonsowman> am using those settings in the picaxe but coming out wrong
[15:22] <jonsowman> http://zorc.breitbandkatze.de/crc.html
[15:23] <jonsowman> reckons initial=0xFFFF, final-xor=0x0000, poly=0x1021
[15:23] <jonsowman> for CCITT
[15:23] <DanielRichman> there's an example that I'm pretty sure is correct on the ukhas wiki http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
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[15:29] <jonsowman> hmm
[15:39] <Randomskk> jonsowman: check what we did
[15:39] <Randomskk> on our thing
[15:39] <Randomskk> ferret
[15:39] <Randomskk> lol that doesn't really help
[15:40] <jonsowman> hmm yeh
[15:40] <jonsowman> i did look at that
[15:40] <Randomskk> poly 0x1021
[15:40] <Randomskk> properly should be initial 0 but we use ffff
[15:40] <Randomskk> don't believe there is a final
[15:41] <m1x10> crc = (crc >> 1) ^ 0x8408; // X-modem CRC poly
[15:41] <Randomskk> what is in crc to start with there?
[15:41] <m1x10> if that's you ask
[15:42] <Randomskk> the docs say 0x1021 for the poly and our code uses ffff as a start and does nothing at the end
[15:42] <jonsowman> we need ccitt, not x-modem
[15:42] <Randomskk> are you suuuure
[15:42] <Randomskk> ferret uses xmodem
[15:42] <DanielRichman> xmodem is ccitt
[15:42] <Randomskk> works
[15:42] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: are you suuuure
[15:42] <jonsowman> ferrets poly is?
[15:42] <Randomskk> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__util__crc.html
[15:42] <Randomskk> jonsowman: 0x1021
[15:42] <Randomskk> the avr lib seems to have functions for ccitt and also xmodem
[15:42] <jonsowman> that's what i'm using
[15:43] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: ya http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_redundancy_check
[15:43] <Randomskk> "Although the CCITT polynomial is the same as that used by the Xmodem protocol, they are quite different. The difference is in how the bits are shifted through the alorgithm. Xmodem shifts the MSB of the CRC and the input first, while CCITT shifts the LSB of the CRC and the input first."
[15:43] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: ^
[15:43] <DanielRichman> (X.25, HDLC, XMODEM, Bluetooth, SD, many others; known as CRC-CCITT)
[15:43] <jonsowman> atm we are running poly=0x1021, initial=0xffff, final=0
[15:43] <Randomskk> that sounds like it would work, so long as it was doing xmodem not ccitt
[15:43] <DanielRichman> :X
[15:45] <Randomskk> same poly, different algorithm then
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[15:48] <jonsowman> http://github.com/mattbrejza/APEX/blob/master/Program/example-code/crc16.bas
[15:51] <jonsowman> otoh
[15:51] <jonsowman> http://balloon.hexoc.com/gallery/apex-ii/index.php/Power/IMG_0691
[15:52] <DanielRichman> :)
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[16:10] <Randomskk> lol picaxe
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[16:12] <futurity> hi, Quick question that i think I've asked before and forgotten the answer (blush)
[16:13] <futurity> if you fill a balloon to provide lets say a life speed of 4m/s, it'll burst at say 33km
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[16:13] <futurity> if i fill the balloon, so that it only give lift at 2m/s, there is less helium in it
[16:14] <futurity> so if i use the same type balloon, surely it'll burst at a higher altitude?
[16:14] <futurity> because the helium has more room to expand into?
[16:15] <Randomskk> yes
[16:15] <Randomskk> http://cuspaceflight.co.uk/calc
[16:16] <futurity> thanks Randomskk
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[16:17] <futurity> Is there a reason why more helium is used? is it to reduce the distance the balloon is blown down wind?
[16:20] <m1x10> Randomskk: I dont know how to thank you about this link you provided
[16:21] <futurity> Great link :)
[16:21] <m1x10> Im looking such an organized and easy-to-use calculator for days
[16:21] <futurity> looks like i need a very light payload ;)
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[16:25] <m1x10> but is this calc accurate enough?
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[16:32] <jonsowman> checksum issue sorted
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[16:56] <Randomskk> m1x10: it is very accurate
[16:57] <m1x10> well I run two tests and I got very different results
[16:58] <m1x10> payload: 1000, balloon: 600, burst alt: 30000 = Time to Burst: 179 min
[16:58] <m1x10> and
[16:58] <m1x10> payload: 1000, balloon: 600, burst alt: 31000 = Time to Burst: 660 min
[16:58] <m1x10> for one more kilometer of altitude 660 min ?
[17:16] <jonsowman> is "track made good" the same as "bearing" in GPS land?
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[18:33] <jonsowman> m1x10: i think that's extrapolating right at the edge of the data
[18:34] <jonsowman> for example, try payload 1000, balloon 600, and target altitude 31083
[18:34] <jonsowman> gives a flight time of more than a week!
[18:41] <m1x10> should we consider it a bug?
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[18:46] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:47] <m1x10> :)
[18:48] <jcoxon> hey m1x10, hows the planning going?
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[18:50] <m1x10> Im coding the GSM modem commands
[18:50] <m1x10> have you got any experience with it?
[18:51] <jcoxon> AT commands?
[18:51] <m1x10> yep
[18:51] <jcoxon> pretty easy
[18:51] <m1x10> IM stuck here
[18:51] <m1x10> cell.print("AT+CMGS=?");
[18:51] <jcoxon> depends on the individual modem - i've experience with GM862
[18:52] <m1x10> that returns nothing
[18:52] <m1x10> and that is bad
[18:52] <m1x10> should return some simple data
[18:52] <jcoxon> does it work directly from the serial terminal
[18:52] <m1x10> yep
[18:52] <m1x10> ok I forgot the <CR> in the end
[18:53] <m1x10> what about you?
[18:54] <jcoxon> oh in the final stages of preparing my launch
[18:54] <m1x10> :):)
[18:54] <m1x10> im jealous
[18:55] <jcoxon> well this payload has flown twice before
[18:55] <jcoxon> so its pretty well developed
[18:55] <m1x10> hmm
[18:55] <m1x10> shouldn't you try some new experiments up there?
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[18:56] <jcoxon> hehe, still got to get this one working!
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[19:00] <jonsowman> definitely launching friday james>
[19:00] <jonsowman> ?
[19:00] <jcoxon> jonsowman, not sure
[19:00] <jcoxon> its a tough one really
[19:00] <jcoxon> trying to weigh up the numerous variables
[19:00] <jonsowman> with regards to weather or otherwise?
[19:01] <jcoxon> well need to test the tanks
[19:01] <jcoxon> but also wouldn't mind it back
[19:01] <jonsowman> ah right
[19:01] <jonsowman> hmm yeh
[19:01] <jcoxon> not a simple up/down
[19:01] <jonsowman> thatd be nice
[19:01] <jcoxon> not a simple float either
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[19:01] <jcoxon> more like a long duration flight with floats at multiple levels
[19:02] <jonsowman> neat :)
[19:02] <jonsowman> what's changed since bh4?
[19:02] <jcoxon> redesigned the payload so the ballast tank is now external
[19:02] <jcoxon> using a fsa03 rather than a lassen
[19:03] <jcoxon> some new code to cope with the gps dying due to the ballast pump
[19:03] <jcoxon> backup beacon now doing CW and Hell
[19:03] <jonsowman> :)
[19:03] <jonsowman> nice
[19:04] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/sets/72157624376182662/
[19:04] <SpeedEvil1> So, indirectly, you could say, that the technological breakdown _was_ the road to hell?
[19:04] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil1, exactly :-p
[19:04] <jcoxon> i've tested the payload - gps continues to work when pump is on so hopefully won't repeat BH4
[19:04] <jonsowman> that Hell is very cool
[19:05] <SpeedEvil1> You think that was due to a bad antenna?
[19:05] <SpeedEvil1> So the gps was marginal?
[19:05] <jcoxon> some sort of interference with the gps
[19:05] <jcoxon> the ublox apparently are more resistant to jamming and interference
[19:06] <jcoxon> and now using a helical ant instead of patch
[19:07] <jcoxon> actually as i've got it setup to test pump + gps i'll reattach the lassen and see if it breaks
[19:18] <jcoxon> jonsowman, http://spacenear.us/float-prediction/
[19:18] <jcoxon> modified hourly predictor to do floats
[19:18] <jcoxon> currently with 2.7hr float
[19:21] <jonsowman> nice :D
[19:21] <jonsowman> good work
[19:21] <jonsowman> i need to get my new predictor onto SRCF/cuspaceflight site
[19:22] <jcoxon> now trying to work out a method varying the altitude as well
[19:22] <jonsowman> james, do you know if "track made good" is equivalent to "bearing" in gps terms?
[19:22] <jonsowman> have you re-written any of the actual predictor source?
[19:23] <jcoxon> jonsowman, yeah i thought it was the same as bearing
[19:23] <jcoxon> in GPRMC?
[19:23] <jonsowman> right
[19:23] <jonsowman> VTG
[19:23] <jcoxon> oh right
[19:23] <jonsowman> the lassen iq transmits GGA and VTG by default
[19:23] <jonsowman> changing them requires talking over the TSIP port, which needs odd parity
[19:23] <jcoxon> hmm bearing is in RMC
[19:24] <jcoxon> as Track angle in degrees True
[19:24] <jonsowman> we can soon find out by going for a drive
[19:24] <jcoxon> jonsowman, i've edited some of the altitude.c to allow for float
[19:25] <jonsowman> ah right
[19:25] <jonsowman> ok
[19:25] <jcoxon> basically i've got a if function that doesn't allow it to descend until a set number of loops
[19:25] <jonsowman> fair enough
[19:25] <jonsowman> does the job fine
[19:26] <jonsowman> i havent looked through the new predictor source
[19:26] <jonsowman> all i've been doing is a frontend for it
[19:26] <jonsowman> http://github.com/mattbrejza/APEX/blob/master/apexii.xml
[19:26] <jonsowman> this looking alright for a tracker xml?
[19:27] <jcoxon> hehe lots of extra bits :-)
[19:27] <jcoxon> but they'll be ignored
[19:27] <jonsowman> yes
[19:27] <jonsowman> we have another piece of custom software running on laptops in the tracking vehicles
[19:27] <jcoxon> hmmmm there are a couple of issues with that
[19:27] <jonsowman> uses the same XML, for simplicity
[19:27] <jonsowman> go on
[19:28] <jcoxon> e.g. <fields>xxxx</fields>
[19:28] <jonsowman> oh yes, forgot about that
[19:28] <jonsowman> that will be sorted soon
[19:28] <jcoxon> have you had a look at the normal ones?
[19:28] <jcoxon> e.g. http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/atlas.xml
[19:29] <jonsowman> i did have a quick glance
[19:29] <jcoxon> so e.g. <encoding> is called <datatype>
[19:29] <jonsowman> we haven't quite finalised the custom fields for all our sensors yet, hence <fields>xxxxx</fields>
[19:29] <jcoxon> fair enough
[19:30] <jcoxon> the best thing is to load it in and then debug off that really
[19:30] <jonsowman> yep
[19:30] <jonsowman> good plan
[19:30] <jcoxon> i can do that for you at some point
[19:30] <jonsowman> we are using DDDMMmm for lat/lon, i assume that's alright
[19:31] <jcoxon> nmea style?
[19:31] <jonsowman> converting it to DDddddd is problematic
[19:31] <jonsowman> indeed
[19:31] <jcoxon> yeah its fine
[19:31] <jonsowman> :)
[19:31] <jcoxon> i dislike DDMMmmm but hey
[19:31] <jonsowman> me too really
[19:32] <jonsowman> so the datatype for lat/lon is what, for DDMMmm?
[19:33] <jcoxon> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/wb8elk.xml
[19:33] <jcoxon> <datatype>decimal</datatype>
[19:33] <jcoxon> <format>ddmm.mm</format>
[19:33] <jonsowman> thanks
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[19:51] <jonsowman> is there a hexadecimal datatype?
[19:52] <jonsowman> a lot of our sensor data is transmitted as Hex
[19:52] <jonsowman> wondering what to put for datatype?
[19:52] <jcoxon> oh for alien we just put custom
[19:52] <jcoxon> and it ignored it
[19:53] <jonsowman> right
[19:58] <jonsowman> jcoxon: http://github.com/mattbrejza/APEX/blob/master/XML/apex.xml
[19:59] <jcoxon> jonsowman, looks good
[19:59] <jcoxon> do you have sample string
[19:59] <jcoxon> i'll test it
[19:59] <jonsowman> not yet, sorry
[19:59] <jonsowman> temp and pressure sensors not running yet
[20:00] <jonsowman> will any of the "custom" fields be displayed at all?
[20:00] <jonsowman> or does it just ignore?
[20:00] <jcoxon> currently they are ignored
[20:00] <jonsowman> right
[20:00] <jonsowman> how about temperatures?
[20:00] <jonsowman> # of sats
[20:00] <jonsowman> etc
[20:00] <jcoxon> need to kick natrium and rjharrison about that
[20:00] <jcoxon> something they've been planning for a while
[20:01] <jcoxon> but haven't instigated
[20:01] <jonsowman> ok
[20:01] <jcoxon> currently it only really does the basics
[20:01] <jonsowman> so only altitude will be plotted?
[20:01] <jonsowman> as well as location of course
[20:02] <jcoxon> well you can get it added on
[20:02] <jcoxon> there is a data field that is used
[20:02] <jcoxon> basically if you look at hte ukhas standard
[20:02] <jcoxon> it has a custom field which is internally divided by a semicolon
[20:03] <jcoxon> so a custom field is passed to the tracker
[20:03] <jcoxon> e.g. atlas currently is in the tracker
[20:03] <jcoxon> the tracker is reciveing hte custom field and then splitting it
[20:03] <jcoxon> but its only setup for atlas
[20:05] <jonsowman> gotchat
[20:05] <jonsowman> *gotcha
[20:05] <jonsowman> even
[20:05] <jcoxon> but
[20:06] <jcoxon> the plan will be that the tracker will grab the xml and use it appropraitly
[20:06] <jonsowman> all our fields are comma delim'd
[20:06] <jonsowman> yeh
[20:06] <jcoxon> well it will be able to cope with that
[20:06] <jcoxon> the best thing is to threaten to launch, natrium works best when pushed
[20:06] <jonsowman> haha ok :)
[20:06] <jcoxon> i think he can only code in 48hr stinits
[20:06] <jcoxon> stinits*
[20:06] <jonsowman> haha
[20:06] <jonsowman> :D
[20:16] <russss> meh, I won't be around to track a friday launch
[20:16] <russss> going sailing
[20:16] <jonsowman> jcoxon: are speed/bearing used anywhere?
[20:16] <jonsowman> in the tracker i mean
[20:17] <jcoxon> oh if they are present they'll be displayed
[20:17] <russss> I should order a CAT cable, now.
[20:17] <jonsowman> ok :)
[20:18] <jcoxon> russss, friday evening?
[20:18] <jcoxon> remember we'll be launching 2hrs before sunset
[20:19] <russss> yeah I'm off down to Southampton in the evening
[20:19] <russss> getting my skipper's certificate over 2 weekens
[20:19] <russss> +d
[20:19] <jcoxon> oh cool
[20:19] <jcoxon> so you can go and rescue it when it lands in the sea...
[20:19] <russss> heh :)
[20:20] <jcoxon> currently my float predictor is setup to do a BH2 float profile
[20:20] <russss> I actually already have a powerboat certificate, but I don't have a powerboat :P
[20:20] <jcoxon> with a nice safe UK landing
[20:20] <russss> and they're not as easy to rent as yachts, oddly
[20:24] Action: russss would up for manning a chase boat though ;)
[20:24] <russss> +be
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[20:35] <futurity> jcoxon: did I read that you are launching soon?
[20:38] <jonsowman> futurity: friday potentially
[20:38] <futurity> Cool
[20:38] <jonsowman> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:upcoming_launches
[20:38] <futurity> I "may" be able to help out :)
[20:39] <futurity> thanks
[20:39] <jcoxon> yeah its in the planning stage
[20:39] <futurity> fantastic
[20:39] <jcoxon> a ballasthalo ain't a normal launch
[20:40] <futurity> true
[20:40] <futurity> i can come along and video if you like
[20:40] <DanielRichman> Breadboard is in the freezer. Must remember to take it out!
[20:40] <futurity> i take it is an evening launch?
[20:40] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:40] <jcoxon> 6pm most likely
[20:40] <futurity> cool
[20:40] <futurity> let me check my availability
[20:42] <futurity> jcoxon: yep, should be free to come along
[20:42] <futurity> :)
[20:42] <jcoxon> great
[20:42] <jcoxon> it might get postponed a day
[20:42] <futurity> need any new laminated lables? or did the last ones come back from holland?
[20:42] <jcoxon> last ones came back
[20:42] <jcoxon> and are in place
[20:42] <jcoxon> the payload is actually complete
[20:43] <futurity> sure, completely understand that these launches are at the mercy of the weather and people's availability
[20:43] <futurity> cool :)
[20:44] <jcoxon> will send out an email tomorrow requesting trackingh elp
[20:46] <m1x10> question! Is out there on high altitudes any sounds?
[20:48] <jcoxon> well its alot different
[20:48] <jcoxon> people have done experiments to record sounds
[20:49] <jcoxon> as of course there is a lot lower pressure
[20:51] <m1x10> is there any possibility for the camera to catch 1 of the thousands of satellites?
[20:51] <cuddykid> jcoxon, do you have experience with tinygps?
[20:52] <SpeedEvil1> m1x10: A iridium flash would be plausible
[20:52] <SpeedEvil1> m1x10: other than that - not really easily
[20:52] <jcoxon> cuddykid, indeed i do
[20:52] <m1x10> :)
[20:54] <cuddykid> jcoxon, ahh, brilliant! Well, I'll tell you the story! .. I've over come many hurdles however I've come across one now with my final code (at least what I hoped would be the final code). DanielRs had a look and not even he could see a problem, and I've had a look today and pretty sure its not hardware so it must be programming problem. Would you mind having a quick look through my code (theres not much) to see if theres any obv problem?
[21:00] <futurity> sorry chaps, time to go chill out
[21:00] <futurity> i should be online a few more times before Friday
[21:00] <jcoxon> futurity, are you signed up to the ukhas mailing list?
[21:01] <futurity> yep
[21:01] <jcoxon> okay
[21:01] <futurity> i'll keep my eyes on that folder ;)
[21:01] <futurity> email folder i mean
[21:01] <futurity> ttfn
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[21:22] <DanielRichman> Interesting. It may not have chilled the whole way through, but at 26 degrees a "tone-shift" of 36 (on a dac range 0-4095 ref 1.0V) produces perfect domex (37 or 35 produce garbage). However if I chill it to 9 degrees (that's what the sensor read, may not have chilled the whole way through) it requires a "tone shift" of 39 to produce domex (40 and 38 result in garbage)
[21:22] <DanielRichman> now I need to let the condensation dry off before playing with this any more :P
[21:27] <DanielRichman> I guess this means that a 12 bit DAC with a 1V ref is accurate enough to produce domex at any temperature since more bits of accuracy wouldn't have helped.... and therefore I don't need to put any vref circuitry on the board (1.0V ref is internal to the mcu) unless it's the vref that might be the problem?
[21:30] <DanielRichman> I'll measure the output voltage when the dac is set to output 0xFF now and when it's come back up to room temperature
[21:30] <jcoxon> interesting
[21:31] <DanielRichman> I'm also going to see if I can put it inside a makeshift greenhouse to get the temperature up nice and high
[21:31] <DanielRichman> tomorrow
[21:31] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:32] <DanielRichman> although... I could put it in the oven...
[21:33] <DanielRichman> either way there's definitely going to be the good old rtty backup. Also I could compensate for the effects of temperature - if needed - by modifying fldigi and recompiling in the chase car
[21:33] <jcoxon> haha
[21:33] <DanielRichman> oh and perhaps with the uplink it could be retuned during flight
[21:37] <DanielRichman> bbl
[21:39] <jcoxon> could it retune itself
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[22:01] <bfirsh> what's the status of two way radio?
[22:07] <gb73d> what u mean by status
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[22:20] <bfirsh> gb73d: is anybody working on it, where it's at etc
[22:21] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[22:21] <bfirsh> alternatively.... if there's anybody who has a clue about radio and wants to experiment with me...!
[22:21] <jonsowman> bfirsh: full or half duplex?
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[22:22] <bfirsh> jonsowman: how would half duplex work?
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> one side sends, then the other
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[22:32] <bfirsh> ah I see, continuously
[22:33] <bfirsh> yeah, that's cool.
[22:33] <bfirsh> fast enough to receive the balloon's state and send the odd command I suppose
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[22:37] <jonsowman> that's what we're doing atm :)
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[22:50] <bfirsh> jonsowman: awesome! successfully? what gear are you using?
[22:51] <jonsowman> the uplink is OOK
[22:51] <jonsowman> the radio is a transceiver on the balloon
[22:51] <jonsowman> so half duplex
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[22:51] <jonsowman> when it's not transmitting data it listens for incoming
[22:52] <jonsowman> we did it on the last launch with amateur radio gear, though not on amateur frequencies
[23:10] <bfirsh> jonsowman: that's very cool. what sort of antennas were involved?
[23:10] <bfirsh> on the balloon in particular
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[23:19] <jonsowman> bfirsh: balloon antenna will be a quarter wave whip with radials
[23:19] <jonsowman> similar to http://hexoc.com/pages/hab/ferret.php
[23:20] <jonsowman> balloon transceiver isn't very sensitive so need a good few watts of tx power from the ground
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[00:00] --- Mon Jul 5 2010