highaltitude.log.20100702

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[00:04] <juxta> morning all
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[07:41] <fsphil> early mornings should be banned :)
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[09:14] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: aren't you on holiday?
[09:14] <DanielRichman> yeah
[09:14] <Randomskk> it's like 0914!
[09:16] <DanielRichman> orthodontists
[09:16] <Randomskk> aah
[09:16] <Randomskk> I'm wondering if http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9821 could be used in place of ntx2s
[09:16] <Randomskk> haven't actually looked at a datasheet or indeed anything except the page, and that in little detail
[09:18] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-161-48-136.range86-161.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:18] <DanielRichman> I suppose the big question is does it have the relevant certifications(?) to let us use it in the UK
[09:18] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: certifications are a massive gray area anyway to be honest though
[09:18] <DanielRichman> true
[09:19] <Randomskk> I was always under the impression that the antenna counted towards the entire thing so should really be certified with an antenna - certainly that's the case in the USA
[09:19] <Randomskk> jcoxon: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9821
[09:19] <DanielRichman> n Frequency Range = 240930 MHz
[09:19] <jcoxon> morning Randomskk
[09:19] <jcoxon> yeah these have been around for quite a while
[09:20] <jcoxon> the legalities is a tough one really
[09:20] <Randomskk> actually it's just the little chip that's of interest really huh
[09:20] <Randomskk> hmm
[09:20] <Randomskk> might look at it a bit more later
[09:20] <jcoxon> for example - if you were to use this on the ground no one would ever ever care
[09:22] <Randomskk> but in the air is something of a different matter huh
[09:22] <jcoxon> not really - just people pay a tiny bit more attention
[09:22] <jcoxon> but in some ways they don't pay any attention
[09:22] <Randomskk> has anyone ever measured the actual ERP from the ntx2 with a quarter wave?
[09:23] <jcoxon> not that i know of
[09:24] <Randomskk> tricky thing to do I imagine
[09:33] <fsphil> the module seems to handle all the modulation itself, unlike the ntx2. might not be easy to decode on the ground with regular radios like we do now
[09:40] <jcoxon> maybe that module is the answer to laurences plans to make a usb radio receiver
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[10:29] <m0tek> good morning jcoxon
[10:44] <jcoxon> hey m0tek
[10:45] <m0tek> morning
[10:45] <jcoxon> good time in london yesteday?
[10:45] <m0tek> yep thanks, was excellent
[10:45] <jcoxon> great
[10:45] <m0tek> good time with g-parents?
[10:45] <jcoxon> hehe indeed
[10:45] <jcoxon> managed to escape to a friends birthday party
[10:46] <m1x10> hehe :)
[10:46] <jcoxon> so two birds, 1 stone
[10:46] <m1x10> hello there
[10:46] <m0tek> very good
[10:46] <m0tek> hello m1x10
[10:46] <jcoxon> hi m1x10
[10:46] <m1x10> I'm new to the hobby :)
[10:47] <m0tek> excellent!
[10:47] <jcoxon> welcome to #highaltitude
[10:47] <jcoxon> :-)
[10:47] <m0tek> we are less so, so you've come to the right place
[10:48] <m1x10> !!
[10:48] <jcoxon> m1x10, first question is really where are you based?
[10:48] <m0tek> where abouts are you based?
[10:48] <m0tek> gah too slow
[10:48] <jcoxon> haha
[10:48] <m1x10> greece the country of no ecomonic crisis :)
[10:48] <m0tek> I really must learn to touch type
[10:49] <jcoxon> m1x10, hehe
[10:49] <jcoxon> m1x10, islands or mainland?
[10:49] <m1x10> mainland, north greece, thessaloniki
[10:49] <jcoxon> cool
[10:49] <m1x10> islands only for holidays
[10:49] <m1x10> :)
[10:50] <m1x10> but this perid no money, no funny :(
[10:50] <jcoxon> m1x10, well it doesn't need to be an expensive hobby
[10:50] <m1x10> I suppose you are Brits?
[10:50] <m0tek> ballooning can be cheap fun
[10:50] <m0tek> yep
[10:50] <jcoxon> yeah
[10:51] <m1x10> yes, for that hobby I will give anything
[10:51] <m1x10> now I'm testing my APRS
[10:51] <m1x10> seems to work but I must handle some gps originated bugs
[10:52] <m1x10> Im using Radiometrix HX1 144.8 transmitter
[10:52] <jcoxon> m1x10, radio amateur then?
[10:52] <m0tek> excellent that you are using aprs
[10:52] <m1x10> sure :)
[10:52] <m0tek> what's your call?
[10:52] <m1x10> have anyone tested HX1
[10:52] <m0tek> < this is mine
[10:52] <m1x10> SW2HYX
[10:53] <jcoxon> m1x10, we have incredibly restrictive radio licence laws here
[10:53] <fsphil> seems hab'ing and amateur radio are quite close :)
[10:53] <jcoxon> so we only use 70cm currently
[10:53] <m1x10> oh
[10:53] <m0tek> they complement each other excellently
[10:54] <m1x10> so nobody has tested the HX1 there :(
[10:54] <m0tek> although I think A Cool Project would be for chase cars to identify themselves over aprs but to also include decoded balloon strings in the aprs payload
[10:54] <jcoxon> m1x10, i don't think so
[10:54] <fsphil> proxy aprs
[10:54] <jcoxon> radiometrix are great module sthough
[10:54] <jcoxon> we are big fans of the NTX2
[10:54] <m1x10> I bought it from England, fixed at 144.8
[10:55] <m1x10> frequency?
[10:55] <m0tek> but we have had excellent experience with radiometrix's 70cm stuff so I am sure you will be fine
[10:55] <m0tek> damn too slow again
[10:55] <m0tek> right, touch typing from now on
[10:55] <jcoxon> i don't touch type as such - more like 3 finger hacker typ
[10:55] <jcoxon> e
[10:55] <m1x10> :)
[10:56] <m0tek> since my carpal tunnel I am learning
[10:56] <m1x10> what's the freq NTX2 runs at?
[10:57] <jcoxon> 434.075 or 434.650
[10:57] <m0tek> sometimes we fly balloons with 2 transmitting payloads, one on each frequency
[10:58] <m0tek> we did this with a couple of weeks ago
[10:58] <m1x10> with 144.8 I get iGated
[10:58] <m0tek> pegasus/nova joint flight]
[10:58] <m1x10> pegasus :)
[10:59] <m1x10> how much does an average flight lasts?
[10:59] <jcoxon> 2-3 hrs
[11:01] <m1x10> oh god, how much I love this modern hobby
[11:02] <m1x10> Im planning to add a GSM module as a backup in case the 144.8 fails to transmit when it hits the ground
[11:02] <m0tek> good idea
[11:02] <fsphil> agreed
[11:02] <m0tek> if you casn make it completely stand-alone, so much the better
[11:02] <m1x10> oh man that will cost money
[11:03] <m1x10> and I dont have !!
[11:03] <m0tek> you can use old mobile phones off ebay
[11:03] <m0tek> eg nokia 6310
[11:03] <m0tek> they have serial ports
[11:03] <m1x10> I have already bought a GMS module from sparkfun
[11:03] <m0tek> :)
[11:03] <m1x10> I plan to put it on the aprs
[11:04] <m1x10> on the payload how do you put the antenna? upwards, downwards or side?
[11:05] <m0tek> m1x10, often we use 1/4 with ground plane, facing down
[11:06] <m1x10> I also plan to use a servo mechanism in order to turn the antenna downwards when ballon is up and turn it down when its about to crash
[11:06] <m0tek> but people have also flown j-poles, slim-jims, bazooka dipoles, big-wheels; all sorts of things
[11:06] <m1x10> facing down? and when it hits the ground?
[11:07] <m1x10> sory, I made a mistake. turn it UP when its about to crash
[11:07] <m0tek> it often lands on its side
[11:08] <m0tek> hang on will get you a pic of a payload i madena couple of weeks ago
[11:08] <m1x10> hm
[11:08] <m1x10> I would like to show me where did u get the parachuts. I really have now idea about this at the moment
[11:08] <m0tek> m1x10, http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721971075/
[11:09] <m0tek> the upper left box is the nova 18 payload
[11:09] <m0tek> the antenna is housed in the foam insulation tube
[11:09] <m0tek> the radials are the black things with yellow tips
[11:09] <m1x10> ground plane yeah
[11:10] <m1x10> http://imagebin.org/103778
[11:10] <m1x10> thats my aprs
[11:10] <m1x10> still building it
[11:10] <m0tek> looks great
[11:10] <m0tek> nice job
[11:10] <m1x10> thx
[11:10] <fsphil> love how you've connected the antenna
[11:10] <m0tek> another arduino-er then :)
[11:10] <m1x10> but your box is awesom
[11:10] <m1x10> but your box is awesome
[11:10] <m0tek> it's an arduino in that box too
[11:11] <m0tek> the 'ferret' tracker built by Randomskk and jonsowman
[11:11] <m1x10> wow, yes. Im havents studed electronics and I want some things to be simplified
[11:11] <m1x10> lol :0
[11:11] <jcoxon> m1x10, what gps is that?
[11:11] <m1x10> :)
[11:11] <m0tek> ha i know where this is going
[11:11] <m1x10> EM-406 from sparkfun
[11:11] <jcoxon> eek!
[11:11] <m1x10> its the most popular
[11:11] <jcoxon> great gps on the ground but won't work above 24km
[11:12] <jcoxon> just to warn you
[11:12] <m1x10> I know about 18km
[11:12] <jcoxon> sirfIIIs (such as em406) work up to 24km then break
[11:12] <m1x10> hmm, I have a good question now
[11:12] <jcoxon> shame really as they are very good gps modules - recommend a ublox or lassen instead
[11:13] <jcoxon> hmmm i can't seem to download gfs data currently
[11:13] <m1x10> when you say break you mean it keeps sending from uart but the NMEA it no-fixed?
[11:13] <m1x10> is no fixed*
[11:15] <m1x10> ublox works above 24km?
[11:15] <jcoxon> yes
[11:15] <jcoxon> m1x10, yes they work up to 50km
[11:15] <m1x10> 1st yes goes to NMEA ?
[11:16] <m1x10> 50km !!!!!!!
[11:20] <m1x10> is it possible to get 144.8 signal from high altitude?
[11:20] <m0tek> oh definitely
[11:21] <m0tek> you have line of sight so it should be loud and clear
[11:22] <m1x10> ah, here many hams tell me it's impossible
[11:22] <m1x10> but I disagree with them
[11:22] <jcoxon> m1x10, we have got 434.075 at 10mW from 555km
[11:22] <m1x10> 10mW!!!!!!!
[11:22] <m1x10> oh man
[11:22] <jcoxon> thats are max power output
[11:22] <jcoxon> our*
[11:23] <m1x10> so HX1's 300mW would enough for up to 30km height
[11:23] <jcoxon> FM?
[11:23] <m1x10> yes
[11:23] <jcoxon> should be fine
[11:24] <m1x10> NTX is not modulating FM?
[11:24] Nick change: DaveyC_Away -> DaveyC
[11:25] <m1x10> I will use a high gain yagi antenna from the ground to listen for signals. So I believe it will catch it.
[11:25] <m1x10> ublox seems very different from NMEA
[11:25] <jcoxon> oh ublox output nmea as well
[11:26] <jcoxon> they also have their own binary protocol
[11:26] <m1x10> yes?
[11:26] <m1x10> uart interface?
[11:26] <m0tek> yep
[11:26] <jcoxon> they often have 2 uarts
[11:26] <jcoxon> one does ubx (ublox binary) the other nmea
[11:26] <m1x10> can you give me a link of this product?
[11:26] <m0tek> if you have a woreking nmea parser already you should just be able to drop the ublox in
[11:27] <m1x10> Yes Im ready with my APRS.
[11:27] <jcoxon> http://www.earthshineelectronics.com/27-falcom-fsa03-gps-module-with-smart-antenna.html
[11:27] <m1x10> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=SW2HYX-11&limit=1000&view=normal
[11:27] <m0tek> *but* you need to put it into its 'airborne' mode to get the 50km altitude limit
[11:27] <m0tek> you can do that over the uart
[11:27] <jcoxon> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03
[11:28] <m1x10> well, if I decide to put use it and find money I will buy it.
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[11:29] <m1x10> 35pounds is 42 euros
[11:29] <m1x10> hmm
[11:30] <jcoxon> might be able to get it locally
[11:30] <m1x10> strange is too cheap cause EM-406A is more expensive
[11:31] <jcoxon> the person who runs that shop is involved with UK ballooning
[11:31] <jcoxon> so its a good deal
[11:32] <m1x10> nice
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[11:32] <m1x10> what about parachutes?
[11:32] <m0tek> once you k ow your payload mass, pick a parachute of the right size
[11:32] <m0tek> know*
[11:33] <m0tek> we usually aim for a sea-level descent rate of 5m/s
[11:33] <m1x10> I dont think I will find parachute shops in GR
[11:33] <m1x10> Im also concerned about water..must build something waterproof
[11:33] <m0tek> :)
[11:33] <m1x10> Is there any online shop you know for parachutes?
[11:34] <m0tek> those seal-able 'tuppareware' boxes are good for that
[11:34] <m0tek> m1x10, we use aeroconn systems, though shipping is slow
[11:34] <m0tek> but hobby rocketry shops are the best places in general as they use parachutes of similar sizes
[11:36] <m1x10> thanks from the info. I found aeroconn online.
[11:36] <m1x10> If you plan holidays in GR let me know :)
[11:36] <m1x10> it will be a lot fun !
[11:37] <m1x10> how old r u?
[11:38] <m0tek> 23
[11:38] <m0tek> you?
[11:38] <m1x10> 25 just finished from university as software engineer
[11:39] <m1x10> now must go 1 year army :)
[11:39] <m1x10> better :(
[11:39] <m0tek> i just finished too
[11:39] <m0tek> although no army
[11:39] <m1x10> aahh
[11:39] <m1x10> I should live there to escape from army !
[11:40] <m0tek> I'm thinking of going to australia
[11:40] <m1x10> for what?
[11:40] <m1x10> work?
[11:42] <m0tek> PhD
[11:42] <m1x10> nice, what's your studies?
[11:42] <m0tek> signal processing and control theory
[11:42] <m1x10> hehe awesome
[11:42] <m0tek> so i did two years of general engineering then two years of specialised
[11:43] <m1x10> Have you ever heard about Brune university?
[11:43] <m0tek> no?
[11:43] <m1x10> hmm its in england
[11:43] <jcoxon> Brunel perhaps?
[11:43] <m0tek> I'm not very good at knowing about other places in general
[11:43] <m0tek> oh Brunel?
[11:44] <m1x10> yes Brunel !
[11:44] <m1x10> is it good?
[11:44] <m1x10> Cause my teachers proposed me to do a Master
[11:44] <m0tek> yes, excellent for engineering and product design, I understand
[11:44] <m0tek> my master's was the best year of education I've ever had
[11:44] <m0tek> highly recommend it
[11:44] <m1x10> I can do the brunel studies here
[11:45] <m1x10> engineering on what?
[11:46] <m1x10> telecomunication? software?
[11:46] <m0tek> me?
[11:46] <m1x10> no Brunel
[11:46] <m1x10> :)
[11:46] <m0tek> afraid I don't know
[11:46] <m1x10> you said its excellent for engineering. On what ?
[11:46] <m1x10> ok
[11:47] <m0tek> i forget other places have different engineering courses - our degree course made you do all types of engineering then let you specialise
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[11:47] <m1x10> :)
[11:48] <m1x10> how tall is the your ground plane antenna?
[11:49] <m1x10> I have a 80cm diamond RH789.http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/rh789.html
[11:49] <m1x10> Is it a good choice for balloning?
[11:49] <jcoxon> we make outs just out of wire
[11:50] <m1x10> haha
[11:50] <jcoxon> more flexible that way
[11:50] <jcoxon> and cheaper
[11:51] <m1x10> Im very new to HAM and in general electronics so I don't have that much knowlegde and I prefer something ready.
[11:51] <m0tek> we often make the antennas like that because they need to be soft
[11:52] <m0tek> so you don't poke someone's eye out
[11:52] <m0tek> and we use drinking straws or foam to help them keep their shape
[11:54] <m1x10> hmm
[11:55] <m1x10> do you also notify the local airtraffic service?
[11:56] <m0tek> yes, although greek regulations will probably be different
[11:56] <m1x10> sure
[11:56] <m1x10> I hope I dont finish the project and they wont let me !!
[11:57] <m1x10> I will travel to UK then to do it. haha.
[11:59] <m1x10> m0tek, I going afk. C ya later.
[11:59] Nick change: m1x10 -> m1x10^Afk
[12:00] <m0tek> m1x10^Afk, good to talk to you, see you later. i am also edmoore or eroomde, depending on which irc client i use. we are all the same person
[12:01] <m0tek> that makes me sound sectionable
[12:01] <jcoxon> hehe, i'd need another opnion to properly section you
[12:01] <jcoxon> :-p
[12:01] <m0tek> you have the power though?
[12:01] <m0tek> wow
[12:02] <jcoxon> yeah i could emergency section someone
[12:03] <jcoxon> under Section 4 of the mental health act for 72hrs
[12:03] <m0tek> that's like a superpower
[12:03] <jcoxon> however if i did it i would be under quite a bit of scruitany to prove the reasons why i did it
[12:04] <jcoxon> especially as a junior
[12:05] <DanielRichman> hmm how should I go about testing the radiometrix transceiver's temperature/frequency drift in a controlled environment? just put it in a box and then -> freezer?
[12:07] <m0tek> yep
[12:07] <m0tek> if you have a decent temp sensor, maybe epoxied to the radiometrix, log temp and freq against time
[12:07] <jcoxon> on that note
[12:08] <jcoxon> my internal temp sensor on BH5
[12:08] <jcoxon> wondering where to place it
[12:08] <m0tek> i guess the pcb
[12:08] <m0tek> as you're not really interested in the temp of anything other than what the electronics are feeling, rish?
[12:08] <DanielRichman> on alien we stood the through hole temp sensor off the pcb a bit so that it wasn't in contact too much
[12:09] <m0tek> might be fun to put one in ballast tank actually
[12:09] <DanielRichman> I have a few DS18S20s spare m0tek but I don't think I'll be able to epoxy it to the radiometrix
[12:09] <m0tek> well see if you can get it close enough to be roughly representative
[12:10] <jcoxon> m0tek, external ballast tank this time
[12:12] <m0tek> ok cool
[12:12] <jcoxon> just uploading pics
[12:13] <m0tek> am looking forward to seeing!
[12:14] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/sets/72157624376182662/
[12:14] <jcoxon> tank isn't currently fully assembled
[12:16] <m0tek> it's very pretty
[12:16] <m0tek> and hell is pretty funky too
[12:16] <m0tek> although more sloped than usual?
[12:16] <jcoxon> yeah its a timing issue
[12:17] <jcoxon> i can't seem to get it right, it goes the other way if i'm not careful
[12:17] <m0tek> lol
[12:17] <jcoxon> consierin
[12:17] <jcoxon> considering its a Coxon TM implementation it probably won't work
[12:18] <m0tek> seems to be working in the picture
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[12:18] <jcoxon> yeah but i fear ta
[12:18] <fsphil> ooh where'd ya get the gold foil?
[12:18] <jcoxon> ouch bad typing
[12:18] <jcoxon> i fear that when it gets cold the timing will go off even more
[12:20] <jcoxon> fsphil, decathalon
[12:20] <jcoxon> survival space blanket
[12:20] <m0tek> looks pretty 1337 doesn't it
[12:20] <fsphil> it certainly does
[12:20] <jcoxon> i've been a little swayed by your silver insulation ed
[12:22] <m0tek> my insulation brings all the boys to the yard
[12:23] <jcoxon> just hope this damn payload works this time
[12:23] <jcoxon> just tested the BH4 scenario of recovering from losing gps fix during ballast dump
[12:24] <fsphil> oh, where you able to reproduce the fault?
[12:24] <jcoxon> i just dumped the lassen and moved to the ublox
[12:24] <jcoxon> now got code that kills teh ballast drop if it loses lock for too long
[12:24] <jcoxon> so that i can recover
[12:39] <m0tek> having to re-set airborne mode
[12:39] <m0tek> ... on the ublox, after a reset or power cycle, is probably worth noting
[12:40] <jcoxon> yeah when i get round to it i'm going to write a function to check what mode it is in
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[13:20] <DanielRichman> So as the transmitter gets colder we expect it to shift in frequency... but the shift also change?
[13:20] <DanielRichman> * frequency overall
[13:20] <jcoxon> yes
[13:21] <DanielRichman> hmm that's what I'm worried about
[13:21] <jcoxon> the shift change is quite small
[13:21] <jcoxon> and only when very cold
[13:21] <jcoxon> dl-fldig has custom shift
[13:22] <DanielRichman> oh rtty will be fine; it's the domex that might die horribly
[13:23] <jcoxon> how long you planning to be up there
[13:23] <jcoxon> most missions if well insulated won't get that cold
[13:23] <DanielRichman> oh just a standard flight
[13:23] <jcoxon> insulate well and stick hte radio above the batteries
[13:24] <DanielRichman> or near the camera
[13:24] <DanielRichman> you don't think I need to test this in the freezer then?
[13:24] <jcoxon> test test test
[13:24] <DanielRichman> :P
[13:25] <jcoxon> i think i might package my fake gps data for people to use
[13:25] Action: jcoxon has been running scenarios all day
[13:27] Nick change: m1x10^Afk -> m1x10
[13:28] <m1x10> jcoxon: do u have an online link with a place that sells space blankets?
[13:28] <jcoxon> m1x10, any camping / outdoor shop should stock them
[13:28] <fsphil> I'm gonna try the local sports shop for those
[13:29] <m1x10> oh ok !
[13:29] Action: fsphil is sold on the gold
[13:29] <jcoxon> they sometimes call them survival blankets
[13:29] <m1x10> :):)
[13:34] <fsphil> The leisure centre I was in had a fire drill while I was up swimming, they had us all out the back in those blankets -- they work really well!
[13:36] <m1x10> :P
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[17:11] <fsphil> d'oh, my new ft-817nd came with euro charger
[17:11] <m0tek> any old 12V thing that fits will do
[17:12] <m0tek> but congrats on purchase!
[17:12] <fsphil> ty :)
[17:12] <fsphil> this is my second :)
[17:12] <m0tek> worth making a decent battery pack for it too
[17:12] <m0tek> ah right
[17:12] <fsphil> yea the internal battery is a bit weak
[17:13] <m0tek> lipo for the win
[17:16] <fsphil> the ic-7000 was very tempting, but I couldn't justify the cost :)
[17:19] <m1x10> m0tek: I found a survival blanket. Can u check if it's ok for us?
[17:19] <m1x10> link is: http://www.vasilikos.com.gr/index.php?MODULE=bce/application/pages&Branch=N_N0000000002_N0000002001_N0000002457_P0000001851
[17:19] <fsphil> ack, I forgot about that - was suppose to run down the town and pick up one
[17:21] <m1x10> or this one: http://www.survival.gr/product_info.php?products_id=367
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[18:39] <timbobel> evening
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[19:11] <m0tek> evening jcoxon
[19:12] <jcoxon> evening
[19:16] <jcoxon> bbl
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[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> and good evening
[20:12] <m1x10> Lunar Lander hehe :)
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> it is good to see you all again :)
[20:13] <m1x10> you plan to land a balloon on moon ?!?!
[20:14] <m1x10> that would be the project of the millenium
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> yes it would, but I only have my nick because I use it for years now
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:14] <gb73d> how much room is there to go higher than average - what are the technical constraints
[20:15] <m1x10> -expert question-
[20:16] <gb73d> whats the theoretical max alt for balloon
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> hard to say
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> depends on which balloon you use and the amount of gas
[20:18] <m1x10> helium is expensive !
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> >50km has been done
[20:20] <m1x10> wow, any photos or website?
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> To get >40km requires basically little clever stuff other than lots and lots of money
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> You have a big polythene (or similar) envelope made up, fill it with a stupid amount of helium, and let it go.
[20:21] <fsphil> a balloon with just enough helium to make it float, and a little fan to push it up :)
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> Or echo.
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> If you count that
[20:22] <fsphil> echo?
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> echo
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_1
[20:23] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> the Japanese did a flight to 53 km
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> this is the so far highest balloon ascent
[20:23] <fsphil> ah the satellites -- not really balloons though :)
[20:23] <m1x10> Lunar is there any website for the jap ?
[20:24] <timbobel> wow echo 1 cool project
[20:24] <timbobel> never heared of
[20:25] <m1x10> http://www.jaxa.jp/article/interview/vol42/p2_e.html
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.isas.jaxa.jp/e/special/2003/yamagami/03.shtml
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> http://stratocat.com.ar/indexe.html may be of interest
[20:27] <m1x10> hey people those are balloons made by scientists, not amateurs like us
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> I attended a amateur launch last weekend: http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showpost.php?p=186112&postcount=11
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> There isn't really a good seperation.
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> If I had ten million pounds, and put it all into a helium balloon, then I could easily get (probably) 55km.
[20:30] <Hiena> Ehem.
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> However, if I did, then I'd have better things to spend it on.
[20:31] <m1x10> Lunar, I see a picture of many flags in the forum you post
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> which one do you mean m1x10 ?
[20:32] <m1x10> the Greek one :)
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> ah :)
[20:32] <m1x10> why is that?
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah somebody from Greece donated some money so that I could buy the first balloon envelope
[20:33] <m1x10> cool
[20:33] <m1x10> is this balloon available for buying it online ?
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> to get to 35km, yes
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> easily
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> much more than that - you start needing to get them custom made
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/home.htm
[20:36] <m1x10> thanks for the link SpeedEvil
[20:38] <m1x10> I also found a link with some calculations for the balloons
[20:38] <m1x10> http://stratosphere.weebly.com/uploads/2/8/2/9/2829023/paper_1_balloon_calculations.pdf
[20:39] <fsphil> off topic -- compilation of videos of the hayabusa re-entry. the last couple are very impressive --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRebtma2dBs
[20:40] <fsphil> hmm, actually it isn't off topic -- it's high altitude stuff :)
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> hey cool m1x10 !
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> you found my website :P
[20:44] <m1x10> fsphil: it's really cool. I heard that hayabusa is the only spaceship that travelled that much and returned to earth
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:44] <m1x10> Lunas: yes I already read the calc
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> and after a series of malfunctions too
[20:45] <m1x10> yep. Now they try to see if its payload worths for scientific data
[20:46] <DanielRichman> do voltage regulators mind much if I connect power to vout yet leave the other two pins (there's a usb connector with a vreg after it, i want to connect power "manually")
[20:48] <Hiena> Anybody has experience with an unbalanced long wire dipole used for a 160m?
[20:48] <m1x10> Lunar: from your datasheet seems that a KCI-600 balloon is good enough for a 30km altitude.
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> yes, with low enough payload and corresponding little helium
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> rule: the less helium, the higher max altitude
[20:49] <m1x10> and that balloon is cheap enough. So I think I'll buy such a balloon for my first tests
[20:49] <m1x10> my problem is that helium is expensive and I really dont know how much I need
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> people help me please
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> where is that spreadsheet?
[20:52] <gb73d> i see more helium , yes expensive , tnx for excellent web sites
[20:52] <m1x10> what spreadsheet?
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> there is an excel spreadsheet which says what which amount of helium does with a given payload
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
[20:53] <m1x10> ah, dunno. I'd like to have this to.
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> under the chart the link to "Burst1a.xls"
[20:57] <m1x10> thx Lunar
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome
[21:00] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: as long as the other two are not connected it'll be fine
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> hi jonsowman
[21:00] <jonsowman> if ground on the reg is connected you'll probably kill it
[21:00] <jonsowman> hi Lunar_Lander
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[21:00] <jonsowman> fine thanks
[21:00] <jonsowman> busy as usual
[21:00] <jonsowman> yourself?
[21:01] <jonsowman> provisional apex II launch two weeks tomorrow :)
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> I got a call by an ad company
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> they found my website and said that they think that my project would be very interesting in terms of new media and so on
[21:02] <m1x10> :)
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> they asked whether one could send down a pre-saved text from the balloon
[21:02] <jonsowman> fair enough :)
[21:02] <jonsowman> sounds good
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[21:03] <m1x10> I can send text in the ARPS comment field
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:03] <jonsowman> we had an echo feature on apex i
[21:03] <jonsowman> send text to the balloon and it echoes it over RF
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> yean
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> that should be what he was looking for
[21:04] <m1x10> I plan to send sensor data within the comment field
[21:04] <jonsowman> uplinks are good fun
[21:04] <jonsowman> if not the easiest things ever
[21:04] <jonsowman> m1x10: yep that sounds right
[21:04] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, ugh yeah I guess I'd end up killing it then
[21:04] <DanielRichman> If I haven't killed it already from plugging in the temp sensor backwards :D
[21:04] <jonsowman> haha
[21:04] <jonsowman> they will normally pretty much stand anything
[21:04] <m1x10> Lunar: check my last data from my homemade APRS->http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=SW2HYX-11&limit=5&view=normal
[21:05] <jonsowman> but not shoving voltage into the output
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, it works! :)
[21:05] <DanielRichman> oh so throwing a crazy amoutn of current through the reg won't have affected it badly?
[21:05] <jonsowman> doubt it
[21:05] <jonsowman> most of them have cutoffs for over-current and over-temp
[21:05] <DanielRichman> awesome. So my mcu board is fine. I'll put a red mark on the temp sensor so that it never gets used in a flight
[21:06] <DanielRichman> but it still gives a reading so it's good for bboarding!
[21:06] <jonsowman> multimeter it - if it's still outputting the expected voltage then you can pretty much take it as read that it's fine :)
[21:06] <m1x10> Lunar: check my APRS->http://imagebin.org/103823
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[21:07] <DanielRichman> now I need to find a way of giving this mcu board - which only has a mini usb a as its input - power in a location away from a pc so I can shove it in a greenhouse and then the freezer
[21:07] <DanielRichman> I think I had a connector lying around here... somewhere..
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> cool m1x10
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> hello RocketBoy
[21:08] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> somehow your E-Mail of June 26 has just arrived :S
[21:08] <DanielRichman> :o
[21:08] <jonsowman> fantastically useful :)
[21:09] <jonsowman> must be off, catch you later guys
[21:09] <RocketBoy> Lunar_Lander: yeah my email host got itself blacklisted
[21:09] <RocketBoy> I think its only just getting cleared up
[21:11] <m1x10> I have a possibly stupid question, but how does the parachute deploys?
[21:12] <m1x10> It does it self? And when?
[21:12] <m1x10> Can I reuse it?
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok Steve
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> yes, reuse is possible
[21:13] <m1x10> How it will open then?
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> the chute opens almost instantaneously but the braking effect is of course almost zero
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> wait a moment
[21:13] <DanielRichman> the chute is open underneath the balloon
[21:14] <DanielRichman> it's already deployed when we launch
[21:14] <m1x10> aaaaaaa
[21:14] <m1x10> :):):)
[21:14] <m1x10> one more mystery solved
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> m1x10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLKwJbr1t0s
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LleWFZAJs5Q&feature=related
[21:23] <m1x10> cool
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[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:26] <m1x10> Im going to eat something.
[21:27] Nick change: m1x10 -> m1x10^Afk
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[22:49] <timbobel> lundar_lander: look out with ads and stuff, not sure if the ballooning is legal when it has a commercial swing
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[23:34] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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[23:36] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[23:38] juxta (fourtytwo@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) got netsplit.
[23:38] KingJ (~KingJ-FN@oops.i.forgot.to.set.my.hostmask.kingj.net) got netsplit.
[23:38] russss (~russ@unaffiliated/russss) got netsplit.
[23:41] russss (~russ@unaffiliated/russss) returned to #highaltitude.
[23:41] KingJ (~KingJ-FN@oops.i.forgot.to.set.my.hostmask.kingj.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[23:41] juxta (fourtytwo@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) returned to #highaltitude.
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[00:00] --- Sat Jul 3 2010