highaltitude.log.20100701

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[01:04] <juxta> hi all
[01:04] <juxta> anybody still about?
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> yes
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> maybe
[01:45] <juxta> hey SpeedEvil
[01:45] <juxta> was going to ask how recovery went, but I see an email went out :(
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[03:04] <rjharrison> juxta They gave up
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[07:46] <earthshine> morning
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[07:51] <jcoxon> morning all
[07:55] <fsphil> good morning
[07:55] <junderwood> hello
[07:56] <jcoxon> hey fsphil and junderwood
[07:56] <jcoxon> junderwood, sorry to hear about the payload, suffolk has quite a few footpaths etc so it might get found
[07:56] <junderwood> Let's hope.
[07:57] <junderwood> Meanwhile, time to think about the replacement
[07:57] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:01] <jcoxon> junderwood, did you say it landed nr stowmarket?
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[08:02] <junderwood> jcoxon, that's my conclusion based on the data we have
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[08:02] <junderwood> given the observed position at burst
[08:02] <jcoxon> near where i grew up
[08:03] <jcoxon> right i've added it to the list of launches
[08:03] <jcoxon> if something comes up we can look at hte list to see if it matches
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[09:32] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[09:32] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!jcoxon@host86-161-48-136.range86-161.btcentralplus.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk,
[09:45] Action: jcoxon is running a flight test of BH5 - using BH2 data - its going to take a long time...
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[10:00] <fsphil> what are you changing for bh5?
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[10:05] <DanielRichman> ping junderwood
[10:05] <junderwood> hello
[10:05] <DanielRichman> hi I was wondering if the code for your payload is online somewhere
[10:05] <junderwood> not at the moment.
[10:06] <DanielRichman> ok
[10:06] <jcoxon> fsphil, well i'm trying to fix the issues we had last time
[10:06] <junderwood> It's just four very simple tasks running under TNKernel
[10:06] <jcoxon> but also very aware that my code isn't always great
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[12:07] <rharrison> Hi all
[12:09] <rharrison> Have we had any news on the payload HelioSS
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[12:10] <junderwood> no sign yet :(
[12:10] <rharrison> junderwood, such a shame
[12:10] <junderwood> Indeed. Probable cause of failure identified
[12:10] <rharrison> Oh go on
[12:11] <junderwood> LPC2214 SPI slave select is active even in master mode
[12:11] <junderwood> you have to tie it to +3V3 to use the master functionality
[12:11] <junderwood> If it is grounded, even temporarily, it puts the SPI into slave mode.
[12:12] <junderwood> Hence the SPI task froze
[12:12] <rharrison> Ahh do we have another board to play with
[12:12] <junderwood> and locked out the GPS task
[12:12] <rharrison> So the thinking is that it was pulled low
[12:12] <junderwood> not the expansion board. Yet
[12:13] <rharrison> So that's the GPS down but what about the temp sensors?
[12:13] <junderwood> indeed. There was a resistor on an expansion board which did the pull-up. That could conceivably have shorted during final integration
[12:13] <junderwood> SPI temperature sensors
[12:13] <rharrison> Ahh 'nough said
[12:14] <junderwood> Highest priority. Radio, SPI, GPS, flash LED. Lowest priority
[12:14] <junderwood> May swap SPI and GPS next time!
[12:14] <junderwood> and may implement software watchdog
[12:14] <junderwood> software / hardware
[12:15] <rharrison> It's very frustrating whan you have other involved in the launch. I had a very similar problem last friday due to a loose GPS connection. Thankfully the fall back to earth woke it up
[12:17] <rharrison> junderwood, are you going to simulate the fault to test the theory?
[12:23] <rharrison> junderwood, where there any pictures taken of the payload. It sounded most exciting!
[12:24] <junderwood> Will certainly test it if I get the payload back. Any redesign is likely to have the offending component moved!
[12:25] <junderwood> Will post some pics at some stage
[12:25] <rharrison> Ok well comiserations and the best of luck with the next launch. I'll keep my fingers crossed that you get this one back!
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[17:47] <timbobel> helllooo everyone!
[17:47] <timbobel> payload of yesterday found yet, or?
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> Not as of yet
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> At least - no posting here - maybe a post to the ML - I haven't looked at those.
[17:53] <timbobel> mah
[17:56] <timbobel> got the diamond 430-10el yagi today
[17:56] <timbobel> happy me
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:17] <fsphil> sweeet
[18:17] <fsphil> nice little antenna
[18:17] <fsphil> well, big
[18:18] <jonsowman> just ordered two of them for apex :)
[18:18] <fsphil> two? you gonna stack them?
[18:19] <jonsowman> two chase vehicles
[18:19] <fsphil> ahh
[18:19] <jonsowman> but I might try stacking them too :)
[18:19] <fsphil> to be honest, it's good enough gain unless you're using mad baud rates like 1200 :)
[18:19] <jonsowman> yeh
[18:19] <jonsowman> well apex is testing higher baud rates
[18:19] <jonsowman> but not quite as high as 1200
[18:20] <fsphil> 300 works well
[18:20] <jonsowman> it will transmit each packet on 50 then 300 baud
[18:22] <fsphil> on the desk here I managed 600 baud I think, 1200 just pushed it a bit too far
[18:22] <jonsowman> yeh
[18:22] <jonsowman> that was one of the aims of apex anyway
[18:22] <fsphil> I'm tempted to try 600 in flight next time, like yourself alternate between them
[18:22] <jonsowman> to test bauds >50
[18:23] <fsphil> it would make my image transfer about the same speed as regular sstv
[18:23] <jonsowman> yeh we might get apex ii to do 600
[18:23] <jonsowman> it's just a little more programming
[18:23] <jonsowman> though time is tight for its launch
[18:23] <fsphil> when's the next flight?
[18:23] <jonsowman> provisionally 17th july
[18:23] <fsphil> ah excellent
[18:24] <jonsowman> depending on several things
[18:24] <jonsowman> but hopefully
[18:24] <jonsowman> if we don't make that launch window we don't have another until sept
[18:24] <fsphil> I must get setup here, see if I can decode the higher baud rate at distance
[18:24] <jonsowman> due to commitments etc
[18:25] <jonsowman> yep we'll be interested to see how decodeable 300 is at range
[18:25] <fsphil> Someone here decoded my 300 baud signal, but they had a mental big yagi - 22 element + masthead amp
[18:25] <fsphil> about 300km away
[18:25] <jonsowman> blimey
[18:26] <jonsowman> 22el
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[18:28] <fsphil> sorry, 2x 25el yagis
[18:28] <jonsowman> :o
[18:29] <jonsowman> hmm in need of a parachute
[18:29] <jonsowman> any recommendations?
[18:30] <fsphil> I got one from Rocketboy, the biggest size - 20-something inch
[18:30] <fsphil> well I'm getting one, hasn't arrived yet
[18:30] <gonzo_> at 432meg?
[18:30] <jonsowman> the sizing guide seems to suggest I need one about 1.5m diam!
[18:31] <fsphil> yea I noticed that too, this one is likely too small but I could use the quicker decent because of the small land area I have to play with
[18:31] <jonsowman> yeh
[18:32] <jonsowman> i don't know of any other UK based parachute manufacturers/distrubutors
[18:32] <jonsowman> need to speak to Steve when he's around
[18:32] <fsphil> I also got a 12" for the second flight, which won't have a big bulky camera
[18:33] <fsphil> yes - if you find a bigger one let me know
[18:33] <fsphil> although the 24" did pretty well last time, and it was a heavier payload
[18:34] <jonsowman> approx mass?
[18:34] <fsphil> considering the balloon got tangled up with the cord
[18:34] <fsphil> I'd estimate about 300g
[18:35] <fsphil> it was two payloads + camera
[18:35] <jonsowman> right
[18:35] <jonsowman> only 300g for that
[18:35] <jonsowman> wow
[18:35] <fsphil> well it's an estimate, and I'm bad with weights :p
[18:35] <jonsowman> haha okay, no worries
[18:36] <jonsowman> shall speak to Steve when he's about
[18:36] <jonsowman> or I may be able to borrow a CUSF one for this flight
[18:36] <fsphil> the cirrus guys stripped apart their camera to save on weight
[18:36] <fsphil> I'm not gonna be that fussy
[18:36] <jonsowman> yeh same
[18:36] <jonsowman> apex II is a heavy payload
[18:37] <jonsowman> we have Geiger-Muller tubes
[18:37] <fsphil> how heavy do you expect it to be?
[18:37] <jonsowman> so those, their inverter circuits and power packs add a lot of mass
[18:37] <jonsowman> 1kg
[18:37] <jonsowman> maybe a bit more
[18:37] <jonsowman> + two cameras, one phone
[18:38] <fsphil> that is pretty weighty! how big a balloon?
[18:38] <jonsowman> kci-1200
[18:38] <fsphil> yea you'll definitely need the big chute
[18:38] <jonsowman> yeh
[18:38] <jonsowman> we won't get massive altitude, but we knew that
[18:38] <jonsowman> that's not what we're after :)
[18:39] <fsphil> muhaha
[18:39] <fsphil> I'm hoping for some got altitude on the second flight
[18:39] <fsphil> got = good
[18:40] <jonsowman> :)
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[19:01] <Futurity> hi
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> i
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> h
[19:02] <Futurity> i was wondering how long the transmitter batteries were expected to last after touchdown
[19:02] <Futurity> the Helios ones
[19:02] <Futurity> and white aerial type they were using to try and find it?
[19:03] <Futurity> it wouldn't be transmitting now for example? i.e. batteries now flat?
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> I vaguely recall that they went home after it had expected to be shutdown
[19:04] <Futurity> i see
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> Lost scrollback though.
[19:04] <Futurity> i thought i'd ask, as i have a 12 element yagi and live relatively near by
[19:04] <Futurity> i wish i had thought of this on Wednesday :(
[19:05] <Futurity> could have tried to rig up something mobile
[19:06] <Futurity> that's if they didn't have a yagi with them of course, which i guess they would have
[19:06] <Futurity> did they simply loose the signal completely on landing?
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[19:32] <timbobel> no they lost signal at 1500 they said yesterday
[19:35] <junderwood> timbobel, not sure where we lost signal yesterday. Definitely low
[19:35] <junderwood> I think we were about 10-15 miles away from the landing spot
[19:36] <fsphil> I was hoping that since it has been spotted visually, that the parachute would be visible too
[19:36] <junderwood> unfortunately not. But we had the same idea!
[19:37] <junderwood> We ran out of time to look for it about 90 minutes after landing but we searched quite a big area during that time.
[19:38] <junderwood> Unfortunately, I think it was a little to the east of where we were looking
[19:38] <junderwood> current estimate is somewhere just south of Stowmarket
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[20:20] <m0tek> jonsowman, yo
[20:21] <Randomskk> think he might be out for a minute
[20:21] <m0tek> he texted me but 3 seconds ago
[20:21] <m0tek> nvm will wait
[20:21] <Randomskk> perhaps not then
[20:22] <m0tek> have you started work yet?
[20:22] <Randomskk> today
[20:22] <m0tek> cool
[20:22] <m0tek> how is it?
[20:22] <Randomskk> the work is excellent
[20:22] <Randomskk> at the moment just writing some c++
[20:22] <Randomskk> but it's good stuff and a lot of liklihood it'l end up in things
[20:22] <Randomskk> big things
[20:22] <m0tek> coolio
[20:23] <Randomskk> the getting to work is shocking on public transport
[20:23] <Randomskk> takes ages and costs loads
[20:23] <Randomskk> insured on car from midnight onwards, will be driving to work monday onwards
[20:23] <m0tek> learn to drive!
[20:23] <m0tek> cool
[20:23] <Randomskk> costs less than half (£6 vs £13/day) including insurance and petrol
[20:23] <Randomskk> and will probably take less than half the time too
[20:24] <Randomskk> so yea, can't wait to be driving in
[20:26] <fsphil> heh, it really shouldn't be cheaper to drive. that's just wrong :)
[20:26] <Randomskk> I know right
[20:26] <Randomskk> I would take the public transport if it was cheaper and took a bit longer, or a bit more expensive but a bit quicker
[20:27] <Randomskk> but when it consists of two trains and a different bus company there vs back, and £13 a day for the pleasure of taking one to two hours depending on wait times (sitting at the bus stop for 40min today)
[20:28] <Randomskk> vs £6/day for the car and what will be a 26min drive according to google
[20:29] <jonsowman> m0tek: hello
[20:30] <jonsowman> sorry was afk
[20:30] <m0tek> hi
[20:30] <m0tek> i think any old rocketry shop
[20:30] <jonsowman> okay. i'd buy one from steve but the ones he stocks aren't large enough
[20:30] <m0tek> we got ours from aeroconn systems but I suspect you need yours sooner than they could get it to you
[20:31] <jonsowman> yes, probably
[20:32] <jonsowman> right will have a search for some chutes
[20:33] <m0tek> rockets and things is good
[20:33] <m0tek> malcolm is friendly and knows us
[20:34] <m0tek> lives in crwley too so you could pickup
[20:34] <jonsowman> excellent
[20:34] <jonsowman> thank you
[20:37] <jonsowman> their 42" or 54" will no doubt do fine
[20:37] <jonsowman> will give them a ring tomorrow
[20:37] <jonsowman> cheers :)
[20:37] <m0tek> np
[20:41] <timbobel> use spherachutes???
[20:44] <m0tek> they are nice, but again may take a while to arrive
[20:44] <m0tek> and they're quite expensive
[20:50] <timbobel> took me a week to arrive :). yeah a bit pricey, but it could be a good invest
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[20:55] <rjharrison> yo m0tek
[20:56] <rjharrison> How's it going?
[21:04] Action: timbobel wonders how to make the transmitter antenna on the balloon: what shape, size, etc?
[21:11] <Randomskk> timbobel: typical recommendation is a quarter wave whip with ground plane radials
[21:12] <Randomskk> that means a ~17cm length of wire hanging vertically, with four ~17cm lengths of stiff wire sticking out perpendicular to the wire and in a plane parallel to the ground
[21:12] <Randomskk> radio ground to the radials, radio signal to the driven in the middle
[21:13] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4413273403/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4414039114/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4413270817/
[21:13] <Randomskk> is the one jonsowman and I made
[21:13] <Randomskk> with jonsowman modelling one of the cusf yagis
[21:16] <timbobel> that is best?
[21:16] <Randomskk> it is reliably easy to make, has a very useful radiation pattern for balloons, is small, cheap, can usually be bent back into shape after damage, etc
[21:17] <timbobel> =)
[21:17] <Randomskk> we used straws to hold wires in place, the wires were just normal multi core wire
[21:17] <m0tek> it's a good radiation pattern, and has been flown by ukhas probably 10 times more often than any other design
[21:17] <timbobel> normal multi cored
[21:17] <timbobel> sounds contradictive
[21:17] <Randomskk> or did we use single core
[21:17] <m0tek> don't use straws, they can break
[21:17] <Randomskk> might have been single cored wire
[21:17] <timbobel> just some random copper wire?
[21:17] <m0tek> heat-shrink onto a stiff cable-tie or something
[21:17] <Randomskk> m0tek's sexy new design involves piping insulation and stuff
[21:17] <Randomskk> or that
[21:18] <Randomskk> m0tek: do we have photos of the sexy payload box
[21:18] <m0tek> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721971075/
[21:18] <m0tek> i used copper pipe insulation to supoort the active element
[21:18] <m0tek> and heat-shrunk onto thick cable ties for the radials
[21:19] <Randomskk> nice
[21:19] <m0tek> the idea being it must be stiff but not solid rods becauswe otherwise you'll take someone's eye out
[21:20] <Randomskk> the cable ties with heatshrink were bendy enough to not take eyes out?
[21:20] <m0tek> yep pretty flexible
[21:20] <Randomskk> cool
[21:20] <m0tek> but i think piano wire for the next payload
[21:20] <m0tek> piano wire all round
[21:21] <m0tek> with orange foam balls at the end of each of the wires
[21:21] <timbobel> but yeah
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[21:21] <timbobel> does everyone do it this way?
[21:21] <Randomskk> you mean brass balls?
[21:21] <timbobel> =)
[21:21] <timbobel> the 5 wiredirections
[21:22] <m0tek> most. there are other antenna designs: bazooka dipole, j-pole, slim-jim, big wheel
[21:22] <m0tek> all should work
[21:22] <Randomskk> I can't tell if you mean piano wire because it'd be suitable for antennas or because it can slice things
[21:22] <m0tek> but the 1/4 wave with groundplane accounts for a good 90% of payloads
[21:22] <timbobel> what kind of wire then?
[21:22] <timbobel> copper?
[21:23] <m0tek> usually use copper with something to keep it straight as described above
[21:23] <timbobel> y
[21:23] <m0tek> the thinking with piano wire is that it's springy so wouldn't need to be kept to shape
[21:24] <m0tek> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721830907/
[21:24] <timbobel> oh yeah
[21:24] <timbobel> and how do you mount the parachute?>
[21:24] <m0tek> nova18 launch - ours is the top payload
[21:24] <m0tek> see that video
[21:24] <m0tek> we mounted it inline
[21:25] <timbobel> just tie it somewhere inline..?
[21:25] <Randomskk> how did the android go?
[21:25] <m0tek> well
[21:25] <m0tek> yep, usually such that if the balloon remnants fall back down, they won't interfere with the payload
[21:26] <m0tek> so maybe 2/3 of the way between payload and balloon
[21:26] <m0tek> but it doesn't really matter
[21:28] <timbobel> yeah ok
[21:28] <timbobel> and ehm... tieing the balloon? tie wraps?
[21:29] <m0tek> usually tie wrap the neck in2 places, then fold the neck back on itself to make a loop
[21:29] <m0tek> tie the string into the look
[21:29] <m0tek> then tie-wrap the loop in several places
[21:30] <m0tek> then duct-tape it up for good measure
[21:30] <m0tek> bbl
[21:32] <fsphil> is the typical polystyrene used in packaging any good for insulation?
[21:32] <timbobel> i think it is, you have to seal it though somehow
[21:37] <rjharrison> hey m0tek here is the stuff from last friday http://infinity2010.weebly.com/
[21:37] <rjharrison> Hey RocketBoy how is the balloon situation?
[21:39] <fsphil> they got some very nice pics
[21:39] <fsphil> Canon A560?
[21:40] <fsphil> n/m, found the specs bit
[21:41] <timbobel> anyone have an eagle file of the NTX2?
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[21:43] <timbobel> anyone have bad experiences with CHDK>?
[22:02] <stilldavid> timbobel, yes w/r/t chdk
[22:14] <timbobel> ok so no probs :)
[22:15] <stilldavid> yeah, no problems. just *good* experiences
[22:17] <timbobel> and! Who has the NTX2 EAGLE files!
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[22:57] <simhed> london is so much fun... there's this guy who has a flat on the other side of my garden
[22:57] <simhed> not far, maybe 30 meters
[22:57] <simhed> my desk is next to the window, i am almost outside and clearly visible
[22:58] <simhed> he doesn't seem to be bothered, doing some girl... and she's not bothered either
[22:58] <simhed> it's really loud
[22:58] <simhed> in-my-face
[22:58] <simhed> maybe i should hide my yagi..?
[22:59] <simhed> :{
[22:59] <Randomskk> no
[22:59] <Randomskk> point it at them
[22:59] <simhed> it is actually
[22:59] <Randomskk> are you holding it though
[22:59] <simhed> i'm picking lot of YHMS and AHMS
[22:59] <Randomskk> I bet you are
[23:00] <simhed> :-s
[23:00] <Randomskk> bonus points if you have a motorised telescope you could point at them
[23:01] <simhed> "oh god have mercy" ?
[23:02] <simhed> good one
[23:07] <fsphil> could be worse
[23:10] <simhed> no worries, helps me focus actually.. i made some really quick and accurate insertions of cables into my breadboard
[23:10] <Randomskk> ...
[23:10] <simhed> :(
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[23:10] <simhed> no matter how weird it may sound
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[00:00] --- Fri Jul 2 2010