highaltitude.log.20100627

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[00:05] <Laurenceb> hi
[00:05] <Laurenceb> whats new?
[00:05] <SpeedEvil> hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
[00:05] <SpeedEvil> Not much.
[00:05] <Laurenceb> heh :P
[00:05] <SpeedEvil> It's been fairly quiet for the last bit
[00:06] Action: Laurenceb has been _really_ busy with work
[00:06] <SpeedEvil> Other than jcoxon qualifying.
[00:06] <Laurenceb> for what?
[00:06] <SpeedEvil> As a doctor.
[00:06] <Laurenceb> ah congratulations
[00:06] <Laurenceb> oh hes away - probably partying :P
[00:06] <Randomskk> everyone's had exams or work it seems
[00:07] Action: Laurenceb has spent the day drystone walling
[00:07] Action: SpeedEvil has been shredding.
[00:07] <SpeedEvil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4730680992/
[00:07] <SpeedEvil> There is actually a drystone wall just to the right of that that I'm sort-of-tempted to repair.
[00:08] <Laurenceb> it takes a while to get the idea
[00:08] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[00:08] <Laurenceb> I spent a week doing about 10m of wall last year
[00:08] <Laurenceb> today I did the same amount in 4 hours
[00:09] <Laurenceb> sore arms now :-/
[00:09] <SpeedEvil> :)
[00:16] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/Xb3NQ.jpg
[00:17] <Laurenceb> thats a section I did last weekend - theres a series of three going up the garden now
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> Umm...
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> I note a bucket.
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> That may imply it's not actually very dry.
[00:18] <SpeedEvil> Where the stones from?
[00:18] <Laurenceb> heh yeah I decided it was too unstable - theres going to be a lawn above
[00:18] <Laurenceb> reclaims yard
[00:18] <SpeedEvil> To do that 'properly' - as I understand it - you lean the wall back some
[00:18] <Laurenceb> its from an old barn apparently
[00:18] <SpeedEvil> And have it lots thicker at the base.
[00:19] <Laurenceb> yeah, but if its kicked when you're on the garden
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> Annoyingly - I have a 2m or so high drystone retaining wall with a bulge. :/
[00:20] <Laurenceb> http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4514064187/ <- that looks really nice
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> yeah - the wall was my mums effort. As was the gazebo.
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> Built from oak from a wood merchant.
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> Oh - and the bridge.
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> Many of the projects got priority over getting the boring bits sorted out.
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> But I've got the bits leveled, and actually looking like a lawn now.
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> Not knowing what the plants are is frustrating.
[00:23] <Laurenceb> both my parents have degrees in plant science so thats reraly a problem :P
[00:23] <Laurenceb> *rarely
[00:25] <SpeedEvil> My Mum was the gardener - I diddn't pay much attention - which makes it a problem now. :/
[00:26] Action: Laurenceb was wondering what happened with jcoxons application to ESA
[00:26] <SpeedEvil> Don't recall anything
[00:26] <Laurenceb> when you said jcoxon qualified that what I thought you meant for a second
[00:27] <SpeedEvil> ah - right.
[00:27] <Laurenceb> AIUI he applied to their program.. not sure what happened, it was a while back but they are very slow moving
[00:28] Action: Laurenceb was looking a bit more at a poor mans qinetiq zephyr
[00:28] <Laurenceb> this is useful - http://www.oriontechnologies.net/Documents/Airfoil.htm
[00:29] <Laurenceb> didnt realise you could achieve such a high L/D
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[00:37] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-to-drag_ratio <- the L/D of an unladen sparrow in the first table XD
[00:37] Action: SpeedEvil sighs at internets.
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> :)
[00:38] Action: Laurenceb was looking a bit more at a poor mans qinetiq zephyr
[00:38] <Laurenceb> this is useful - http://www.oriontechnologies.net/Documents/Airfoil.htm
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> You saw the /. link to CFD stuff?
[00:41] <Laurenceb> interesting
[00:42] <Laurenceb> annoyingly propcalc doesnt allow you to set the desnity
[00:42] <Laurenceb> but its relatively trivial to make something that works at sea level
[00:43] <Laurenceb> AIUI you need a L/D of ~45 to get to 18Km altitude cruise, together with a low tip speed ration prop
[00:43] <Laurenceb> *ratio
[00:44] <SpeedEvil> 45 is quite optimistic
[00:45] <Laurenceb> possible for a flying wong with the right foil shape
[00:45] <Laurenceb> needs winglets
[00:45] <SpeedEvil> I understood as reynolds number rose - aerofoil performance dropped.
[00:45] <Laurenceb> but the aspect ratio doesnt have to be insane - I calculated 1.5m wingspan, 15cm cord, 300g gross weight would work
[00:46] <Laurenceb> ~7m flight speed at ground level going up to 25m/s at 18km
[00:47] <SpeedEvil> Meaning that you might get 70:1 on a sailplane - but a 1:20 scale model won't get close to that
[00:47] <SpeedEvil> (even if you adjust the aerofoil to the optimum)
[00:48] <SpeedEvil> Interesting
[00:48] <Laurenceb> RE is lower for smaller stuff
[00:49] <Laurenceb> there may be issues with flow seperation at lower Rewith some higher performance foils AIUI, but you can solve that be reducing the wing loading
[00:50] <Laurenceb> I'd need to do some more reading, but it looks like at the optimum L/D with a laminar flow foil its not a big issue
[00:50] <Laurenceb> mostly they seem to be used at higher loading
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> It seems likely that this space should have been comprehensively explored by the R/C glider people.
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> What sort of l/d do they hit?
[00:57] <Laurenceb> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=931565&page=6
[00:57] Action: Laurenceb brain explode
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[01:15] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-induced_drag
[01:15] <Laurenceb> cant find much from the RC people - someone mentioned 20:1
[01:15] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[09:21] <timbobel> mornin
[10:31] <juxta> hey timbobel
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[10:58] <timbobel> can anyone recommend a (TO BUY) handheld 70cm~430mhz Yagi??
[10:58] <timbobel> and secondly, does anyone know which connector this has: http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/a430s10r-diamond-430440mhz-70cm-yagi-p-3962.html
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[11:01] <juxta> timbobel: it probably comes with either a UHF or N connector
[11:01] <juxta> UHF = PL-259
[11:02] <juxta> (or maybe unterminated)
[11:02] <juxta> oh, actually it says it: Socket SO-239
[11:02] <juxta> which is the female connector that mates with pl-259
[11:05] <timbobel> and PL259 its what's on the back of my 817ND right?
[11:06] <fsphil> yea
[11:06] <fsphil> if you find a decent handheld let me know :)
[11:07] <juxta> well, probably an so-239 on the back of the radio - so you'd use a pl-259 -> pl259 cable
[11:09] <timbobel> The rear panel includes a type “M” (“SO-239”) connector.
[11:09] <timbobel> allright thats kinda weird i think
[11:10] <timbobel> i think that's a pretty decent handheld right
[11:10] <juxta> that's pretty standard
[11:10] <timbobel> in holland i can get it at 39,-
[11:10] <timbobel> ah
[11:10] <timbobel> sorry for my ignorance
[11:11] <fsphil> timbobel, I have that antenna -- definitely a so-239 on it
[11:11] <juxta> the UHF connector (pl259/so239) is really not designed for anything above 300mhz
[11:11] <juxta> despite that they're often used for 70cm work though
[11:11] <juxta> the N connector is better, but not as common
[11:13] <fsphil> yea my 2.4ghz antenna has an N connector
[11:13] <fsphil> so-239 would probably be awful as those frequencies
[11:13] <juxta> yeah, I'd imagine so
[11:13] <juxta> my old icom 70cm radio had an N connector surprisingly
[11:14] <juxta> I better go have some dinner, back in a while
[11:15] <timbobel> fsphil, you like it?
[11:15] <timbobel> suitable for semi-dynamic baloon chasing
[11:15] <timbobel> ?
[11:18] <fsphil> I had it cable-tied to a camera tripod, worked very well
[11:19] <fsphil> it's a bit bulky for hand held work
[11:24] <fsphil> http://projectcirrus.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/dsc_0030-01.jpg
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[11:48] <timbobel> did it come with a cable?
[11:57] <fsphil> no
[11:58] <fsphil> I made that cable, two PL-259's and RG213 cable
[11:59] <timbobel> fsphil: how much better would it be then just the 817ND whip?
[12:02] <juxta> timbobel: much better, but if you're following in the car, all you need is a whip on the roof
[12:03] <fsphil> yea the yagi will always outperform the 817nd's whip
[12:04] <fsphil> I got a mag mount 70cm/2m whip to try next time
[12:04] <fsphil> though the cable seems too thin
[12:05] <juxta> you'll probably be surprised, it's amazing how far a 1/4 wave whip works once the balloon is up
[12:05] <timbobel> could you maybe, its a bit much to ask, see if you know something about these antenna's: http://www.handelsondernemingveenstra.nl/webwinkel/index.php?cPath=123_125_129
[12:05] <timbobel> theyre mobile ones
[12:06] <timbobel> i would like onof those too
[12:06] <timbobel> indeed, something with a mag mount
[12:06] <timbobel> RG123 is a good cable> or?
[12:07] <fsphil> RG213?
[12:07] <juxta> timbobel: rg213 is good, but you'll have a hard time getting it through the gap between the car door and body
[12:07] <timbobel> its why they have windows ;)
[12:08] <juxta> haha, yeah
[12:08] <timbobel> my system will have 2 phones on board
[12:08] <juxta> i like to close them though otherwise the antenna + cable whistles loudly at 100km/h
[12:08] <timbobel> so im not too worried
[12:08] <timbobel> and 2 gps
[12:08] <timbobel> ah thats true
[12:08] <timbobel> but it's why they have ducktape
[12:09] <fsphil> this is what I'm trying --> http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/21033-wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna-wsm-270-watson.html
[12:09] <fsphil> doesn't mention what kind of cable it has
[12:09] <juxta> probably rg-58 or similar
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[12:11] <juxta> timbobel: if you have time, making your own antenna is pretty easy :)
[12:11] <fsphil> it's about 3mm thick
[12:12] <juxta> sounds about right, rg-58 might be a little thicker, not sure - does it have any labelling on it?
[12:13] <timbobel> whats your opinion of this
[12:13] <timbobel> http://cgi.ebay.nl/2m-70cm-Antenna-Rare-Earth-Magnet-Mount-Antenna-BNC-/190407076681?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c55256b49
[12:13] <timbobel> im not feeling like putting too much effort in that
[12:14] <juxta> timbobel: that'll work, but it's a 5/8 wave at 70cm, which isnt really ideal unless you're a long way away from the balloon
[12:14] <fsphil> juxta, nah it's blank. looking at the watson website, see if I can get a spec sheet
[12:15] <juxta> antenna gain is a tradeoff timbobel - the higher the gain, the more directtional the antenna is - a 5/8 wave will be more directional than a 1/4 wave
[12:15] <juxta> let me draw a pic
[12:15] <timbobel> ah i found a nice one i think
[12:15] <timbobel> Diamond MR 77b
[12:15] <timbobel> brb lunch
[12:16] <fsphil> heh, searching for the WSM-270 keeps returning results for a gun
[12:18] <juxta> timbobel: http://bogaurd.net/antenna.PNG
[12:20] <fsphil> it's strange that a lower gain antenna on the balloon is actually a good thing
[12:21] <juxta> yeah, whilst it's closeby overhead at least :)
[12:21] <fsphil> yea!
[12:23] <juxta> fsphil: i made up a mag mount for my car, it has both a 1/4 wave and a 1/2 wave on it - I switch between the 2 antennas depending on where the balloon is in relation to me
[12:23] <juxta> the higher gain of the 1/2 wave helps once the balloon is on the ground
[12:24] <fsphil> ah good idea
[12:25] <fsphil> now that you mention it, this mag moung is a 3/4 wave at 70cm -- it might be too directional
[12:27] <fsphil> can a vertical be 1/2 wave?
[12:27] <juxta> yeah, you can get 1/2 wave verticals
[12:28] <juxta> I think they're a bit funny though - come to think of it mine is a 1/4 + 1/2 wave = 3/4 wave
[12:32] <timbobel> i would like 5/8th wave.. right? when the balloon is highup?
[12:32] <juxta> timbobel: if you're close to underneath it then you'll want the 1/4 wave
[12:33] <juxta> any whip is going to have a dead spot directly above it, but it'll be much bigger on a 5/8 wave than on a 1/4 wave
[12:34] <juxta> even with the 1/4 wave when we get directly under the balloon it the signal becomes very weak
[12:34] <juxta> erm, minus an 'it' there
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[12:38] <fsphil> Is it noticeably weaker, when it was directly overhead?
[12:38] <juxta> yeah
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[12:39] <juxta> I stopped the car and got the yagi out to get a fix on it, I wasn't decoding any packets
[12:39] <juxta> then I realised it was right above me
[12:42] <timbobel> ehm yeah b ut..
[12:42] <timbobel> why dont you fix it in horiz. position then?
[12:42] <timbobel> that sounds very logical.. right?
[12:43] <timbobel> why would you ever point it directly upwards?
[12:43] <timbobel> anyone know a cheap place where i can get cheap cables
[12:44] <timbobel> i need a PL259 to PL259 and a BNC extention
[12:44] <fsphil> or make a cable with PL259 on one end, BNC on the other
[12:45] <fsphil> crimping BNC is pretty easy -- PL259 not so much :)
[12:45] <timbobel> beh i dont like making things, when i know it'd be better if i buy it
[12:45] <fsphil> haha, I'm like that with antennas
[12:46] <fsphil> but I don't mind making cables
[12:46] <fsphil> the off-the-shelf kinds rarely come with just the right length
[12:46] <timbobel> so where do you think i can buy?
[12:46] <timbobel> oh its just 2m?
[12:47] <timbobel> or 6ft
[12:47] <timbobel> sounds standard
[12:47] <fsphil> oh that's pretty standard then
[12:47] <timbobel> where to get it!
[12:47] <timbobel> and what is a good price
[12:47] <fsphil> RG213?
[12:48] <timbobel> y
[12:48] <timbobel> just a fixed PL259 to PL259 cable, 6~10ft
[12:49] <fsphil> probably about £12
[12:50] <timbobel> RG8x good too?
[12:52] <fsphil> hmm I'm not sure
[12:54] <fsphil> I think RG8x could be as lossy at UHF frequencies as RG58 --> http://www.ocarc.ca/coax.htm
[12:56] <juxta> timbobel: antennas generally need to be polarised in the same orientation at either end
[12:56] <juxta> so if the balloon antenna is veritcally polarised (which gives you the best propogation in this application), your ground based whips will want to be vertically polarised too
[12:57] <timbobel> aaahh..
[12:57] <timbobel> i dont get it :)(
[12:59] <juxta> timbobel: the antennas should be in the same plane
[13:01] <timbobel> well
[13:01] <timbobel> so, any idea for a webstore with premade cables?
[13:02] <fsphil> do you know any radio amateurs?
[13:03] <fsphil> ack, flash keeps crashing firefox
[13:03] <timbobel> No!
[13:03] <timbobel> you guys obvisouly
[13:03] <timbobel> :)
[13:05] <juxta> timbobel: don't bother with premade cables, it's very very easy to make your own
[13:05] <juxta> the UHF connectors basically screw onto the coax, then you use a dob of solder on the end of the pin
[13:06] <timbobel> i dont have torches or proper wirecutters.
[13:08] <juxta> hm
[13:08] <timbobel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1nabA6yMoI!!!!!!!
[13:08] <timbobel> whooop di doo
[13:08] <timbobel> easy peasy - lemon squeezy
[13:08] <juxta> yeah :)
[13:08] <timbobel> i can probably do that without setting the house ablazin'
[13:08] <juxta> hehe
[13:08] <juxta> do you have a soldering iron?
[13:13] <timbobel> obviously =)
[13:22] <juxta> should have no problems then ;)
[13:30] <timbobel> >>> Have bought the diamond 10el 430MHz Yagi <<<
[13:30] <timbobel> =has
[13:31] <juxta> ooh, that's quite large :)
[13:38] <timbobel> dutch people are tall in general. and for my case, i am very muscular, so i might even mount it on my back
[13:38] <timbobel> Or not
[13:38] <timbobel> no i will mount it on a simple photographic tripod.
[13:38] <juxta> hahaha
[13:39] <timbobel> i think i will just check the prediction; then go where it should kinda land, set up the yagi, and decode from there
[13:39] <juxta> good plan
[13:40] <juxta> will you have anybody helping? ie another car following?
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[13:41] <timbobel> i actually do have some friends, but they're more of the beerdrinkers. so i think ill just ask the radiosociety to get involved.
[13:41] <timbobel> otherwise, it's just me, and my yaesu 817ND
[13:42] <timbobel> but as i said, i have 2 gps systems and 2 phone systems on board.. reception in holland is great, everywhere. so almost 0% chance of losing the payload.
[13:43] <timbobel> and ill just put a reward in of $1000.. and when they give it to me, i just tell them im going to sew them for stealing my payload.
[13:44] <timbobel> after which they have to will return $2000 to me as get-out-of-jail card
[13:44] <timbobel> Profit.
[13:45] <juxta> haha
[13:50] <timbobel> and it says it's a meter long, and weight a kilo.
[13:50] <timbobel> i should be able of carrying that. i mean, my personal camera is a kilo and i have it around my neck all day during vacation
[14:03] <juxta> yeah - wieght shouldnt be much of an issue, driving around and pointing a 1m antenna out the window on the other hand can be a bit tricky :)
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[14:06] <juxta> timbobel: I have those UBX commands by the way - just about to put them on the blog
[14:07] <timbobel> doesnt it just blurp out NMEA?? :(?
[14:08] <juxta> yeah it does
[14:08] <timbobel> juxta: i should just get a friend with a cambriolet
[14:08] <juxta> I already answered this, haha
[14:08] <timbobel> why i need the UBX comms then?
[14:08] <timbobel> yes but i remember better if you tell me twice
[14:08] <juxta> hehe
[14:08] <juxta> well - a couple of reasons
[14:08] <juxta> the main reason is that the module is not in airborne mode normally
[14:08] <juxta> and will only work to 10km
[14:09] <juxta> you need to set it to airborne mode or you'll have trouble once you pass 10km altitude
[14:09] <timbobel> oooorrrrrllly?!
[14:09] <juxta> the other reason is to slow it down - by default it's 38.4kbit - quite fast, I slow it down to 9600b
[14:09] <timbobel> ah i see your comment now
[14:10] <juxta> I also turn off the other NMEA sentences I don't need
[14:10] <timbobel> yeah im more of the 4800'
[14:10] <timbobel> i did that too with my SIRF
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[14:12] <timbobel> but thanks for checking out those configs, i could really use that
[14:12] <timbobel> so, can you just ALWAYS set it to airborne mode?
[14:13] <timbobel> or do you have to switch above 10km (that would suck)
[14:13] <fsphil> 38.4kbit default? how much data is it sending?
[14:13] <timbobel> just the NMEA sentences i guess
[14:13] <timbobel> 5 per second if i am not mistaken
[14:13] <fsphil> aah .. I didn't know they could update that quickly
[14:18] <timbobel> well i do agree that its a bit useless to have such a giganticly fast connection, in -any- case.
[14:18] <timbobel> fsphil, soon i will have the same antenna as you've got
[14:18] <timbobel> brb
[14:18] <fsphil> excellent
[14:19] <juxta> by default the update rate is 1hz, which is fine
[14:20] <juxta> but the default baud rate is 38.4
[14:20] <juxta> and yes timbobel, you set it for the duration of the flight, no need to change modes once its launched :)
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[14:22] <fsphil> I'd love to build an alt-az mount for the yagi so I could operate it remotely
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[14:23] <fsphil> I've a feeling my vertical won't work so well once the balloon gets a bit of altitude
[14:23] <fsphil> (at home)
[14:26] <juxta> fsphil: depends how close (overhead) it is really
[14:26] <fsphil> aye -- the last time the balloon passed by about 10km from cookstown, and about 6km up
[14:27] <fsphil> so not overhead but still a fairly steep angle
[14:28] <juxta> ah fair enough
[14:28] <fsphil> depends on the winds of course
[14:30] <fsphil> my theory was that even overhead some signal would still be received -- but from what you've said I'm not so sure now :)
[14:30] <fsphil> but the chase car should always be able to receive something
[14:30] <fsphil> so shouldn't be a problem
[14:32] <juxta> yeah, it's no big deal
[14:32] <juxta> the dead spot isn't too much of an issue, and it'd only be an intermitten interruption in any case
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[14:52] <cuddykid> Hi all! Does anyone know how to convert a char to a string, I've tried using the sprintf, but i'm getting errors. I just want to output some data to the NTX2 but whenever I do it I get the error "invalid conversion from 'char' to 'char*'?!
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[14:58] <fsphil> what function are you using to output to the ntx2?
[14:58] <DanielRichman> cuddykid, what are you trying to do?
[14:59] <DanielRichman> char str[2]; char c = 'a'; snprintf(str, sizeof(str), "%c", c); will result in a str of "a\0"
[14:59] <cuddykid> I'm using some code that DanielRichman set up for me, basically I write "rtty_txstring(___)" then what ever in the brackets gets sent out via ntx2
[14:59] <cuddykid> DanielRichman, i'll post some code, hold on a sec!
[14:59] <DanielRichman> but why do you need to convert a char to a string?
[15:01] <cuddykid> I thought it had to be in the format of a string to be outputted :S .. Currently using this code http://pastebin.org/361977 its highlighting the 2nd line and saying invalid conversion of 'char' to char*'
[15:05] <cuddykid> do you know how I could get it outputted through ntx2?
[15:11] <juxta> cuddykid: you can try this if you like:
[15:11] <juxta> http://projecthorus.org/?page_id=153
[15:11] <juxta> scroll down to RTTY code
[15:13] <juxta> oh - that's probably the rtty_txstring function you're using
[15:13] <cuddykid> juxta, thanks, how did you upload multiple pages using the arduino environment?
[15:13] <cuddykid> yeah, i think it is!
[15:14] <juxta> cuddykid: in the arduino environment, click the right arrow in the square up in the top right near the tabs
[15:14] <juxta> then choose new tab
[15:14] <cuddykid> ahh, thanks :)!! which gps module did you use?
[15:14] <juxta> that'll create a new sketch - they all get concatenated together then compiled and uploaded.
[15:15] <juxta> well, a new page in a sketch
[15:15] <juxta> I've used a couple of modules cuddykid - why's that?
[15:16] <cuddykid> I was just wondering whether it would work with my lassen!
[15:16] <juxta> cuddykid: what's linea[j+1] - just a byte?
[15:16] <cuddykid> you used the software serial then?
[15:16] <juxta> if so, use the rtty_txbyte() function
[15:17] <cuddykid> urmm, i think it is, i'll give it a try :) thanks
[15:17] <juxta> yeah - that code is somewhat old and not the greatest though
[15:17] <cuddykid> ooo, thats compiled with no errors!! I'll test it with gps now!
[15:17] <juxta> :)
[15:17] <cuddykid> juxta, ok, thanks anyway :)
[15:32] <fsphil> cuddykid, use rtty_txbyte if you want to transmit a single character
[15:32] <fsphil> if you have that function that is
[15:33] <cuddykid> fsphil, yep, using that now and its working, however now i've got another problem as what I'm using the parse the nmea string is getting corrupted :S .. i've tried using the tinygps library but not sure how to get that outputted to ntx2
[15:35] <fsphil> ahh, sorry juxta missed you mentioning that already
[15:35] <fsphil> I don't know tinygps very well - I think it returns just the numbers, you have to use snprintf to create the string to transmit
[15:38] <cuddykid> ok
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[15:46] <fsphil> ping earthshine
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[16:08] <juxta> timbobel: that fs03 stuff is up on the wiki
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[16:29] <fsphil> ah, it's the fsa03 you guys where talking about that does 38.4k baud by default. that's the module I'm using this time
[16:34] <DanielRichman> I suppose 38.4k has its advantages and disadvantages
[16:37] <fsphil> aye .. the rate itself shouldn't be a problem -- I didn't realise the module needs to be configured for >10km
[16:37] <DanielRichman> well at that baud you're not going to be using software serial for sure
[16:38] <fsphil> hehe nope - I've got two uarts on this chip so no problems with that
[16:38] Action: DanielRichman has connected the NiM2 to the DAC of the xmega, serial connection via USB with a python application (gtk.HScrollbar) to control the frequency
[16:39] <DanielRichman> I've got four /flex
[16:39] <DanielRichman> however those with the arduino will be having fun
[16:39] <juxta> haha
[16:39] <juxta> I have only one :(
[16:40] <DanielRichman> if I could cut one out of this chip and mail it to you I would, but...
[16:40] <juxta> and the board I just put together I have the GPS connected via software serial for simplicities sake - i'm programming the avr via its uart, putting an ICSP header on there was going to be a pain (in terms of making it fit)
[16:41] <fsphil> DanielRichman, nim2 better / different to the ntx2?
[16:41] <DanielRichman> fsphil, it's a transceiver
[16:41] <juxta> hence my slowing it down to 9600b via UBX
[16:41] <DanielRichman> but atm I'm only using the TX bit
[16:41] <fsphil> ah nice one
[16:41] <DanielRichman> which I believe is essentially the same as the ntx
[16:41] <fsphil> same frequency drift?
[16:41] <DanielRichman> I'll be looking at the other half of the nim2 later on.
[16:42] <DanielRichman> No idea fsphil. We haven't flown it yet
[16:42] <juxta> DanielRichman: I got offered a pair of BiM transciver modules from a potential sponsor
[16:42] <DanielRichman> juxta, are they legal to fly?
[16:42] <juxta> (UHF)
[16:42] <DanielRichman> perhaps I'll stick it in the freezer later fsphil :)
[16:42] <juxta> here, yes
[16:42] <DanielRichman> nice
[16:42] <fsphil> haha, I like my radio modules chilled.
[16:42] <fsphil> I get frequency drift from my ntx2 on the desk
[16:42] <fsphil> not as extreme though
[16:43] <juxta> I have to go back outside and see if my gps has lock
[16:43] <juxta> but it's reallly cold
[16:43] <DanielRichman> I don't have a JPEG camera yet so I might delay working on SSTV and do some MFSK instead.... or I could just get a jpg of a cat
[16:43] <fsphil> I can send you some if you'd like
[16:43] <DanielRichman> don't worry, half the internet is dedicated to jpegs
[16:44] <fsphil> ah, thought maybe you where after something from the C328
[16:44] <fsphil> yea there's a couple of jpegs out there somewhere
[16:44] <fsphil> not sure this 'world wide web' thing will take off though
[16:45] <juxta> agreed, more bother than it's worth
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[18:49] <fsphil> bit about kite + camera flying coming up on BBC 1 shortly
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[20:24] <edmoore> junderwood: ping
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[21:10] <junderwood> edmoore, pong
[21:11] <edmoore> was wondering about a flight profile for wednesday to update the houry predictor
[21:11] <edmoore> have changed it to comething probably nearer
[21:11] <junderwood> up, then down
[21:12] <edmoore> right
[21:12] <junderwood> Using my predictor, I think 4 up would be fine - current prediction is just the other side of Bury St Edmunds
[21:12] <junderwood> could even go for 3 if we feel lucky
[21:12] <edmoore> have changed it to 4 and burst at 33
[21:13] <junderwood> ballistic coefficient on the way down is 3.2 kg/m2
[21:14] <junderwood> OK. Using that and a 11 am launch we land 3.5 km NW of B-S-E
[21:15] <edmoore> cool
[21:15] <junderwood> but the weather hasn't stettled yet. 12 hours ago it was predicting rather close to the Thames estuary
[21:16] <junderwood> low level weather looks pretty reasonable as well
[21:16] <junderwood> although maybe a little rain
[21:16] <edmoore> can live with a little
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[21:17] <junderwood> Ever launched a balloon through Cumulo Nimbus ?
[21:17] <edmoore> stormHAB has been on the cards for a while
[21:17] <edmoore> will build a custom carbon-fibre re-inforced payload for that
[21:17] <junderwood> hopefully not Wednesday
[21:18] <edmoore> may have to take some big whacks from hail
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[21:39] <fsphil> has anyone here used a Kenwood TH-F7E? it seems to support 70cm ssb
[21:40] <edmoore> you'll find it's deafer than you think
[21:40] <edmoore> but sure, it can certainly do ssb so could be great for debugging of mobile tracking when you're up close
[21:40] <fsphil> right, but for proper tracking it's a no go?
[21:40] <edmoore> i spent a while deciding to get either that or the yeasu vx-7r
[21:41] <edmoore> i went for the 7r, as the f7e is a bit master-of-none
[21:41] <edmoore> not bad, but you might be dissapointed if you have dreams of balloon tracking
[21:41] <fsphil> it's a very neat little package all the same, but yea my plan would be for tracking
[21:42] <edmoore> so the hand-held mainly gets used for local fm, which is actually very useful
[21:42] <edmoore> we oten co-ordinate cambridge launches on the 2m fm repeater
[21:42] <edmoore> comming between launch site and track site
[21:43] <edmoore> and for what i thought would be a fairly limited use i've actually found having a good fm hand-help really nice
[21:45] <edmoore> also was looking at using aprs to track chase cars
[21:45] <edmoore> and maybe even relay-on balloon data aswell in the aprs packets from the chase car - that'd sort you out in terms of 3g holes
[21:47] <fsphil> the vx-7r does ssb?
[21:47] <edmoore> nope
[21:48] <edmoore> that's what made the choice quite hard
[21:48] <edmoore> but it's a damn nice handie, and does do aprs
[21:48] <edmoore> and completely waterproof which is very useful
[21:49] <edmoore> so it complements the 817 in the car very well
[21:51] <fsphil> I'm after a radio to setup here in the house, to track along with the 817 in the car
[21:51] <edmoore> ic-7000 :)
[21:51] <edmoore> it's my favouritist thing
[21:51] <fsphil> haha
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[21:53] <edmoore> maybe another 817?
[21:53] <edmoore> or an ebay 790?
[21:53] Action: fsphil was looking at the ic-7000 ... :)
[21:54] <fsphil> I've been watching ebay for a 790 but none have appeared lately
[21:54] <DanielRichman> ft 790?
[21:54] <fsphil> yea
[21:54] <DanielRichman> Got one on the desk right now :)
[21:54] <edmoore> fsphil: i can recommend the ic-7000
[21:55] Action: DanielRichman submits http://github.com/danielrichman/alien/raw/master/alien2/eagle/alien2.png for #highaltitude approval
[21:55] <edmoore> it's often been the case that all our other radios have given up but i can keep listening on my ic-7000
[21:55] <fsphil> I'll have to save up for one!
[21:56] <edmoore> actually i'm sure a decent pre-amp on a 790 would make a killer listening sation
[21:57] <edmoore> and a decent external usb sound card
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[23:01] <DanielRichman> I'm thinking of putting the voltage regulator & its caps on top of the SD card (sd card on bottom side of PCB); should I be worried about any noise? Also: how much current (I guess it also depends on copper thickness etc) can a 16mils trace easily carry? From what I can on the 'net it seems that there's no reason to be concerned about my max. 500mA.
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[00:00] --- Mon Jun 28 2010