highaltitude.log.20100624

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[00:53] <simhed> cheers :)
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[01:42] <Pavix> So I was reading the wiki in the topic, the problem with high altitude flights with weather balloons is that the pressure is significantly less in the troposphere than on the ground which causes the balloon to expand and eventually burst. Is it possible to vent some of the helium, or perhaps run it through a valve and ignite it at high pressure for added boost or am I missing something?
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[01:43] <SpeedEvil> Igniting helium is problematic with current technology.
[01:44] <SpeedEvil> Also - yes, you can vent - but the vent isn't trivial to do. The jet thrust from any venting would be entirely negligable.
[01:47] <Pavix> I was just trying to figure a way of either keeping the balloon from bursting or adding extra thrust. but that begs the question of how far can you push it before you cant retrieve your package. I would venture a guess it would take alot more than a $100USD balloon and $100USD worth of helium could provide
[01:47] <SpeedEvil> Well - existing balloons can easily hit 30km altitude
[01:48] <SpeedEvil> And several hour flights
[01:48] <SpeedEvil> you have to work out a good reason to want to extend that.
[01:48] <SpeedEvil> Also - the latex used is very UV unstable
[01:48] <Pavix> The pictures are amazing
[01:48] <SpeedEvil> so it will not last longbest case
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[06:57] <earthshine> lol - by pure coincidence came across this on Stumbleupon:- http://gnews.com/million-dollar-nasa-photos-beaten-by-budget-balloon-06201041030525/
[06:58] <jcoxon> hehe is that still going around!
[06:59] <earthshine> yup
[06:59] <earthshine> morning jcoxon
[07:01] <jcoxon> morning earthshine
[07:03] <jcoxon> hows the book going?
[07:03] <earthshine> ok thanks
[07:03] <earthshine> about 1/4 of the way through
[07:04] <earthshine> it's hard work
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[07:46] <fsphil> morning all! anyone launching this weekend?
[07:47] <jcoxon> not that i know of
[07:47] <jcoxon> shame as weather is rather perfect
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[09:23] <juxta> hi all
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[10:39] <timbobel> who has a good website for getting sensors? barometric, hydro, temp, etc?
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[11:02] <timbobel> who has a good website for getting sensors? barometric, hydro, temp, etc?
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[11:52] <SpeedEvil> digikey, sparkfun, mouser, farnell
[11:53] <DanielRichman> resistors in series in serial lines: good idea?
[12:13] <SpeedEvil> depends.
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> Unless you're talking about lines that require ultimate speed, they can improve oops immunity
[12:23] <timbobel> is there ONE good website for sensors? barometric, hydro, temp, etc? i dont want to make 5 orders
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> sparkfun is sort-of OK.
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> Digikey or mouser or ... may be a better bet, as they are cheaper, and carry a much, much wider range of stuff
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> there isn't a 'sensors only' distributor
[12:25] <DanielRichman> yeah it's the oops immunity I'm looking for. 1K or 100R?
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> I'd be fairly certain 100R will not generally affect functionality - I'd need to do the numbers for 1k
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> 100R - with a 5v6 zener on the far side - is pretty bulletproof
[12:27] <DanielRichman> cool
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> the 100R alone helps
[12:29] <timbobel> so which one should i choose, i have 0 experience with those shops. what is your recommendation SpeedEvil
[12:29] <timbobel> (btw my spherachutes have arrived! http://hollandshoogte.wordpress.com/ )
[12:29] <timbobel> funky colors =)
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> timbobel: where are you again - uk?
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> digikey and mouser offe free shipping to the UK over 50 quid.
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> uk.farnell.com and rswww.com are in the UK, and also have a fairly broad line.
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> Sparkfun are in the states, but their shipping is not too unreasonable
[12:32] <timbobel> i am in NL
[12:32] <Randomskk> farnell are also in nl
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[12:32] <Randomskk> if they carry what you want, personally I'd go for them, but sparkfun have more specialist/interesting things
[12:33] <timbobel> okido ill check it out
[12:33] <timbobel> thanks a lot guys
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> Often at a steep markup.
[12:33] <Randomskk> yea.
[12:33] <timbobel> define steep markup
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> 50% to 100% more cost
[12:33] <timbobel> with sparky?
[12:34] <timbobel> and why in heaven is that NTX2 like, out of stock, éverywhere
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> yes
[12:35] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/net-neutrality/ - for those of us in the UK. OFCOM consultation document onnet neutrality.
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[12:39] <timbobel> which barometric pressure sensors doyou use
[12:43] <sbasuita> like the chutes :)
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[12:46] <timbobel> i thought they would be three times as big though =)
[12:47] <sbasuita> timbobel: did you calculate a descent rate?
[12:47] <timbobel> Yes i did that by heart
[12:48] <sbasuita> arghi
[12:48] <sbasuita> i've lost my checklist
[12:48] <sbasuita> it had about 30 things on it :S
[12:48] <timbobel> the project is very average so i just took what everyone did. i did calculate some stuff, but yeah.. its no exact science anyway
[12:48] <timbobel> sbasuita, what are you workign on
[12:48] <sbasuita> (need to pack for holiday today)
[12:48] <timbobel> o good
[12:48] <timbobel> where to
[12:48] <timbobel> holland?
[12:48] <sbasuita> sweeden
[12:48] <sbasuita> going to my friend's house in the middle of nowhere
[12:48] <sbasuita> should be fun :)
[12:49] <timbobel> sounds good
[12:49] <sbasuita> but that bloody list :P
[12:49] <timbobel> you can camp whereevery you want there in nature, pretty nic
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[12:59] <timbobel> humidity sensor for $16 at sparkfun. that can be cheaper, right?
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[13:24] <griffonbot> @Daniel_Richman: Alien 2 Schematic work #ukhas http://twitpic.com/1zih2x [http://twitter.com/Daniel_Richman/status/16925153005]
[13:24] <timbobel> quite large
[13:33] <juxta> ping earthshine
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[13:40] <timbobel> earthshine here??
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[14:42] <juxta> hmm, anybody have any idea on why my ublox modules are not retaining their config when they lose power? I've been saving the config each time I modify it...
[15:13] <timbobel> omg thats lame
[15:13] <timbobel> istn that maybe why some modules have a little buttonbattery?
[15:13] <timbobel> i just parse configurations each time i boot it up
[15:19] <juxta> timbobel: just been looking into it
[15:20] <juxta> looks like the ublox module used on the FSA03 GPS unit does not have EEPROM to save settings to
[15:20] <juxta> so I'll have to craft UBX config packets and send from the AVR to put it into the right mode
[15:21] <timbobel> yep
[15:22] <juxta> annoying, the UBX protocol spec doesnt look too fun
[15:23] <junderwood> UBX protocol isn't too bad.
[15:23] <junderwood> Hard code the packets you want to send
[15:23] <junderwood> Ignore the acknowledgements if you like
[15:23] <juxta> yeah - was planning on ignoring them, hehe
[15:24] <junderwood> You only really need to send the mode switch packet
[15:24] <juxta> yeah - to airborne, 1g
[15:24] <juxta> junderwood: any existing code floating around?
[15:25] <junderwood> nothing clean.
[15:25] <juxta> haha
[15:25] <junderwood> The CFG_NAV5 command is:
[15:25] <junderwood> (wait of it)
[15:26] <junderwood> (wait FOR it)
[15:27] <junderwood> 0xb5, 0x62, 0x06, 0x24, 0x24, 0x00, 0x05, 0x00, 0x06, 0x02, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x5b, 0x86
[15:27] <junderwood> That will set 1g airborne mode
[15:27] <juxta> awesome!
[15:27] <juxta> checksum included?
[15:27] <junderwood> yup
[15:28] <juxta> amazing, save me lots of tedious work, thanks a bunch!
[15:28] <junderwood> np
[15:28] <juxta> ...you didn't just work that out in your head, did you? ;p
[15:28] <junderwood> The downside is without listening for the ACK (at least while you're debugging) there's no way of making sure it's been received without flying it above about 10km
[15:29] <junderwood> No. Excel!
[15:29] <juxta> hehe
[15:29] <juxta> I think i better send it a few times to be sure then
[15:29] <junderwood> Hmm. If it fails to work once, it may well fail every time ;)
[15:30] <juxta> good point
[15:30] <juxta> well, what i'll do is send the message junderwood, then talk to the chip via u-center
[15:30] <juxta> and poll it
[15:31] <junderwood> That would work, otherwise worth trying to send a command with observable results first to check it's receiving
[15:31] <junderwood> .. something like turning all messages off!
[15:31] <juxta> haha
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[15:33] <juxta> junderwood: do you have an excel macro or something to calculate the whole packets + checksums?
[15:35] <junderwood> I just used a spreadsheet to calculate a running checksum
[15:35] <junderwood> e.g. col 1. New character, col2 CK_A, col 3 CK_B and then fill down
[15:37] <juxta> oh right
[15:37] <juxta> cheers
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[15:55] <timbobel> heeey! Farnell has got the NTX2 in stock again. a whopping amount of 1 (ONE) http://nl.farnell.com/radiometrix/ntx2-434-650-10/transmitter-434-65mhz-10mw/dp/1348829
[15:55] <timbobel> friggin pricey it's what that is.
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[15:59] <juxta> that's fairly expensive, hehe
[16:07] <juxta> junderwood - still about?
[16:07] <junderwood> for a few minutes
[16:07] <juxta> alrighty
[16:08] <juxta> got it working mostly - had a couple of questions though
[16:08] <junderwood> go on
[16:08] <junderwood> (quick work, by the way)
[16:08] <juxta> hex in excel - I only know hex2dec & dec2hex, so I'm converting to dec, adding, then converting back to hex - is there a better way?
[16:09] <juxta> does excel have a hex data type? =\
[16:09] <junderwood> that's how I did it. Don't forget "=MOD(whatever,256)"
[16:09] <juxta> yep, that was the next one :P
[16:10] <juxta> but that makes sense, hehe
[16:10] <junderwood> do all the calcs in decimal then convert back afterwards
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[16:10] <juxta> alright, excellent
[16:10] <juxta> one other question - the bitmask - how do you get 0x00 0x05?
[16:11] <junderwood> need to find the manual - hang on
[16:11] <juxta> http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/GPS/Modules/u-blox5_Protocol_Specifications%28GPS.G5-X-07036%29.pdf
[16:11] <juxta> page 110
[16:11] <juxta> hehe
[16:11] <juxta> there's a diagram on the next page, but it still doesnt make it much clearer :)
[16:11] <juxta> (to me at least!)
[16:12] <junderwood> It's page 127 in my copy from uBlox - Rev F
[16:12] <junderwood> Bit mask
[16:12] <junderwood> 2^0=1 for dynamic mode
[16:13] <junderwood> I also appear to have told it not to use 3d mode (2^2=4)
[16:13] <junderwood> so 4+1 = 5 = 0x05
[16:13] <juxta> ah, righto
[16:13] <juxta> got it I think
[16:14] <juxta> so assuming I wanted to mask and set timeMask & dyn, then it's be 2^0 + 2^5 I guess
[16:14] <junderwood> That's right
[16:15] <juxta> excellent, thanks junderwood
[16:15] <junderwood> beware of anything bigger than a byte. It's all little-endian.
[16:15] <junderwood> gtg bbl
[16:15] <juxta> alright - thanks again :)
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[16:54] Nick change: brennen|out -> brennen
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[16:58] <juxta> grr, still stuck on this UBX checksum calculation - can't get CK_B right for some reason =\
[17:02] <DanielRichman> can't you get the u-center applictaion to generate the commands to send to the device?
[17:03] <DanielRichman> and just copy them from one of the debug windows?
[17:04] <juxta> DanielRichman: yeah, I could do that, haha
[17:04] <juxta> infact i've just worked out what I was doing wrong by checking against u-center
[17:04] <juxta> :)
[17:05] <DanielRichman> :)
[17:06] <juxta> will have to fiddle with parsing the ACK messages in the morning
[17:07] <juxta> i should be in bed, thank god I'm not at the animal hospital again tonight, my dog decided to eat a box a snail poison a couple of days ago, which has kept things interesting
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[18:38] <timbobel> eveeening everyone.
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[19:05] <boreger__> Hi all!
[19:07] Nick change: boreger__ -> Hiena
[19:07] <Hiena> Grrrr....
[19:08] <timbobel> hi
[19:08] <timbobel> how's the bombs, hiena?
[19:09] <Hiena> So, anybody could enlighten me about the low frequency reflection from the ionosphere?
[19:09] <Hiena> timbobel, painting the wall.
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[19:11] <Hiena> The rain got into my drying rack and melted the burning rods. So, mow i have some impressionist murals
[19:13] <DanielRichman> Can someone recommend a quick and simple SMD rectifying diode/SMD "version" of the 1N4001/1N4004
[19:13] <DanielRichman> If it has an eagle part then you get cookies
[19:20] <timbobel> does everyone use eagle, and, do you have to pay for it?
[19:22] <DanielRichman> cadsoft.de free
[19:22] <DanielRichman> for hobbyists
[19:22] <DanielRichman> just go ahead and download. The restrictions are fairly permissive provided you're not trying to build a motherboard
[19:40] <timbobel> so you're recommending cadsoft; or eagle? i've been using FreePCB, seems allright.
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[20:33] <griffonbot> @nearsys: I've tested the new BalloonSat Easy, so it's time to order PCBs. Look for significant upgrades in the new design. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/16955000156]
[20:33] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:34] <jonsowman> evening jcoxon
[20:35] Action: jcoxon is no longer a student
[20:36] <jcoxon> yay
[20:40] <jonsowman> excellent :D
[20:40] <natrium42> ooh, congrats jcoxon!!
[20:40] <natrium42> may we call you dr. coxon now?
[20:40] <jcoxon> you can officially
[20:40] <natrium42> \:D/
[20:41] <jcoxon> its about time really
[20:41] <jcoxon> :-)
[20:41] <natrium42> how long did it take you?
[20:41] <jcoxon> 6 years
[20:41] <jcoxon> so i'm
[20:41] <jcoxon> Dr James Coxon BA (Hons) MB BS
[20:41] <jonsowman> \o/
[20:42] <jonsowman> congratulations
[20:42] <jcoxon> now the scary stuff happens
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:42] <natrium42> are you going to do general medicine?
[20:42] <jcoxon> the first 2 years are a mixture of rotations
[20:43] <jcoxon> but I'll probably end up doing general medicine/elderly care
[20:44] <natrium42> coolz
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[21:31] <fsphil> ooh congrats!
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[21:52] <griffonbot> @apex_ii: image gallery online http://balloon.hexoc.com/gallery/apex-ii/ #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apex_ii/status/16960727522]
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[22:02] <timbobel> geez
[22:02] <timbobel> apex??
[22:04] <timbobel> looks very profesional
[22:10] <DanielRichman> Can anyone please have a quick look at http://imgur.com/wWxoG.png to see if I'm doing anything blatantly wrong before I start laying it out?
[22:11] <Hiena> DanielRichman, how about 1n4148?
[22:12] <Hiena> Or the good old BAS04-xx series?
[22:12] <DanielRichman> I'll go have a hunt for them, thanks :)
[22:14] <timbobel> omg didnt the apexI have a backup system?
[22:15] <timbobel> huh? is the use of mobile phone illegal??
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[22:32] <simhed> men, i just found out that parallax gps module won't work above 18kft.. what else would you recommend to use with arduino instead, to get readings from higher alts?
[22:33] <simhed> *(wo)
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[22:37] <DanielRichman> simhed, lassen iQ
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[22:39] <simhed> was that one used in pegasus?
[22:40] <simhed> i must've misread the specs.. thought it doesnt operate on higher altitudes
[22:40] <simhed> i have to recheck it
[22:40] <simhed> thanks..
[22:41] <jonsowman> timbobel: massive grey area wrt mobile phones at altitude
[22:42] <jonsowman> their legality is irrelevant however
[22:42] <jonsowman> no GSM reception above 2-3km
[22:42] <jonsowman> Apex is run by myself, ben_apex and Matt_soton btw :)
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[22:49] <fsphil> silly thought of the day .. I wonder how big a speaker and amp you'd need to hear it on the ground from 30km :)
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> quite small
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> one stick should do it
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> Or fill the balloon with H2/O2
[22:50] <junderwood> fsphil, I visited a company a few years ago who had a BIG shaker table in a building overlooking a valley. They connected it to the local radio station for a laugh.
[22:51] <junderwood> You really could hear it for miles
[22:51] <fsphil> Sweet!
[22:51] <fsphil> what's the shaker table actually for?
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> In the caf. Milkshakes.
[22:56] <junderwood> vibration testing of various things they can' talk about
[22:56] <junderwood> vibration testing of various things they can't talk about
[22:57] <junderwood> some of them attached to rockets
[22:58] <junderwood> SpeedEvil, with that thing you could shake the cow before you milked it :)
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[23:09] <jcoxon> back
[23:12] <DanielRichman> Can anyone please have a quick look at (now draft #3) http://i.imgur.com/lKtMc.png to see if I'm doing anything blatantly wrong before I begin laying out the board?
[23:15] <jcoxon> looks like there is a launch tomorrow
[23:15] <timbobel> which?
[23:15] <jcoxon> its a school launch from the new launch site in the north of england
[23:15] <jcoxon> that said they haven't emailed around
[23:15] <timbobel> fsphil: i have got a 5cmx5cm piezo speaker, that really blows my ears off
[23:16] <timbobel> >>does there exist a lassen IQ breakout?
[23:16] <jcoxon> timbobel, I've got 2 spare breakout boards that i got made up
[23:17] <timbobel> oh rly
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[00:00] --- Fri Jun 25 2010