highaltitude.log.20100623

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[07:29] <jcoxon> morning
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[09:17] <GW8RAK> Morning All. Does anyone have any ideas for high altitude experiments?
[09:17] <GW8RAK> Temperature, pressure etc all okay, but I was wondering about cosmic rays?
[09:18] <GW8RAK> Perhaps a pack of film which hopefully will be fogged where a ray/particle passes through?
[09:19] <ms7821> how about TGFs?
[09:19] <GW8RAK> TGFs?
[09:19] <ms7821> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_gamma-ray_flash
[09:19] <ms7821> not sure whether they're common enough to catch one
[09:20] <ms7821> oh, 50/day apparently
[09:20] <GW8RAK> That's the sort of ideas I'm looking for and at that rate, could be detectable.
[09:21] <GW8RAK> Perhaps over complicated, I was also thinking of a two with a high voltage across them and look for conduction when a particle passes through.
[09:36] <GW8RAK> Just reread that. Should read, two plates with a high voltage.
[09:41] <ms7821> could be fun - is there a wiki page to list potential experiments?
[09:41] <ms7821> we were offered 200g on one of the recent launches but couldn't think of anything we could pull together in a day or so
[09:42] <ms7821> would be nice to have a list of interesting things to try
[09:43] <GW8RAK> I was talking to someone yesterday and they were stuck on temperature and pressure, but cosmic rays came to mind. And with the low pressure, so form of time of flight mass spectrometer could be possible. After all, we don't need any pumping equipment.
[09:43] <GW8RAK> "some form"
[09:44] <GW8RAK> I'm sure there's a lot of low pressure experiments which compared to at sea level, don't need huge steel pressuer vessels.
[09:45] <GW8RAK> There was a product I worked on years ago, which could be interesting to determine high altitude chemistry, but I don't think the radioactive source would be a good idea.
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[11:20] <timbobel> mooooooooooarning
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[11:20] <timbobel> whooh dutch baloonlift is in the clear!
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> GW8RAK: The mean free path at 30km isn't that low
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> GW8RAK: You probably can't do meaningful TOFms
[11:22] <GW8RAK> Probably not, I was just thinking laterally
[11:22] <GW8RAK> And thinking of interesting experiments.
[11:24] <timbobel> what tempsensors u using
[11:24] <timbobel> and which barometric? (cant find those anywhere)
[11:25] <GW8RAK> Reading cosmicrays.org, it refers to cosmic ray interacting with the atmosphere at 30km, which is where the balloons are.
[11:28] <timbobel> someone?
[11:30] <GW8RAK> Sorry timbobel, don't know about pressure, (others can provide that information) but for temperature I will be using DS18B20 sensors
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[13:23] <ms7821> timbobel: apparently BMP085
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[13:30] <juxta> hi all
[13:33] <juxta> earthshine: GPS modules came today, thanks for that :)
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[14:51] <fsphil> speaking of chemistry, is the atmosphere up at 30km the same mix as down here?
[14:52] <Upu> what atmosphere ?
[14:52] <Upu> 98% helium from burst balloons probably
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[15:00] <jiffe> otherwise I think it is fsphil
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[15:00] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Essentially identical
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: There are very minor differences, but it's basically the same
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> It's only once you get to ~45km (IIRC) that the chemistry starts to shift - ozone production forex.
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> And at maybe ~90km until you get it going wierd - and not looking much like it does on the earth
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> Once the mean free path is a sizeable fraction of an orbit, things change enormously
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[15:26] <fsphil> so by the time it gets interesting, it's incredibly thin
[15:39] <SpeedEvil> yes
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[16:44] <natrium42> \o/
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[18:46] <Hiena> ' evening!
[18:47] <Hiena> I got a though cookie to chew.
[18:49] <Hiena> Just finished a phone call with the astronomy teacher guy from the ELTE Uni. He gave me a "possible to do" project layout, with a big educational calories.
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:01] <Hiena> Basically a picosatellite on a few day decay LEO orbit. What it makes good educational material is the idea of the communication. He suggested to making a few gramm weight satellite from a high-bright blue led housed in a deflated balloon, which conneted to a coin cell, a ucontroller, and a small solar panel. The whole thing would be under 10g and launched a 7 or 10 stage solid modell rocket engine powered rocket. At altitude the remain pre
[19:01] <Hiena> ssure inside the ballon would inflate it and rip the prepared nosecone, also the shredded nosecone sould start start the blinking of the LED.
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> If given any time to prepare, I would be thinking of something more fun
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> Also - 10 stages of model rocket is somewhat dubious
[19:04] <Hiena> The pros of the project: The "small size" of the rocket would not make "itching" the local authorities and i have enough contact at the local army, whom will be interested to "practice" with such "IED".
[19:06] <earthshine> juxta: that wasn't too shabby
[19:06] <Hiena> The inflated balloon would give enough area for the LED to make visible for the tracking, and show something for the kids.
[19:08] <Hiena> Only have to do some calculations. But i guess, there is an error about the sizes.
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=627447&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=nested&cid=24362431
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> Was my thoughts earlier
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> Basically tiny phone cam, stm32 class processor, microSD, li-ion battery, couple of solar cells, 10mW 433 transmitter
[19:20] <Upu> I wonder if Radiometix ever expected their stuff to be pushing into space
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> not radiometrix
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> way too heavy
[19:20] <Upu> oh ok
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> talking about a total weight of ~10g
[19:21] <Hiena> Yeah, but here the key is to build something cheap, which could give a 'buzz' for a kids. There is a slight differenties, when the listen a radio communication, and when they see the thing.
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> Also - you need a moderately large scope to see a blue LED inorbit IIRC
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> even if it's pointing at you
[19:22] Action: SpeedEvil does the numbers.
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> A magnitude 4 star illuminates the earth with around 1nw/m^2
[19:22] <Hiena> I know, i'm doing the number crunching at this moment.
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> If you get 10mW of light out of the LED, that's 10^7m^2
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> or a diameter of around 3km.
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> To be visible easily to the naked eye
[19:24] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, the kids has a good eye, so you could go down aroung magnitude 6.
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> Sure
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> that's only another factor of 2-3 in diameter tough
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> relying on being in the 10km circle when the spacecraft passes 200km overhead isn't going to let you see it very often
[19:34] <Hiena> That is true.
[20:22] <DanielRichman> Various AVR app notes recommend a Decoupling/filtering inductor 10¼H between VIN and the chip's VCC; is this really necessary? are there any downsides to adding one?
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> If you're using a regulated power supply, thennot at all.
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> (needed)
[20:23] <DanielRichman> OK; the main power will be from a ldo regulator. What about from the USB power supply?
[20:24] <DanielRichman> there's also some advice about ferrite beads between the digital vcc and the analogue vcc.
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> USB has lots of noise and crap on it.
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> what are you doing with the analog side
[20:38] <DanielRichman> radiometrix
[20:38] <DanielRichman> using the dac
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> it's probably not very critical then.
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> As noise on the output will be filtered out
[20:39] <DanielRichman> even though the noise will be modulated?
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> the radiometrix - I assume - has a lowpass filter on the input
[20:40] <DanielRichman> OK
[20:40] Action: DanielRichman deletes the components
[20:43] <DanielRichman> Finally; with regards to choosing the sizes of capacitors on either side of the ldo reg, I've been using 100uF and 10uF for a while; but there's a great variety in recommended values in datasheets; is it really required to be accurate?
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[20:50] <SpeedEvil> not at all
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> it's somewhat critical if you're running near the edge of the specs of the reg
[20:50] <DanielRichman> ok, cool
[20:53] <fsphil> how long would something stay orbiting at 200km?
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[20:53] <timbobel> hi all
[20:53] <timbobel> just this now i received a 40 year old meteorological balloon module
[20:53] <timbobel> the lead-acid battery was still there.
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Depends.
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: If it's a tungsten telegraph pole - centuries.
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: If it's a 10m balloon - weeks
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> np: Marvin Gaye - Sectional Density.
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[21:30] <timbobel> hi
[21:30] <timbobel> i posted some pictures of the 40year old weather module i reaceived today
[21:30] <timbobel> http://hollandshoogte.wordpress.com/
[21:32] <sbasuita> whoa
[21:32] <sbasuita> what an awesome find
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> neat
[21:33] <timbobel> for free, he delivered it to my house just now! haha!
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:37] <Upu> thats cool
[21:37] <Upu> what did it record the data too ?
[21:37] <timbobel> i think immediate RF transmitting
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> I would suspect it simply transmitted
[21:38] <timbobel> but i was amazed by the wheel, very nifty solution
[21:38] <Upu> yeah what does that do ?
[21:39] <timbobel> ehm
[21:40] <Upu> the wheel
[21:40] <timbobel> there is a little motor, it rotates, and that gears the big wheel
[21:40] <timbobel> the big wheel rotates
[21:40] <Upu> to what purpose does the wheel rotate though ? :)
[21:40] <timbobel> and when it rotates, the contacts rotate, and make contact with sequentially the temp module, the hydro, pressure, etc
[21:40] <Upu> ah
[21:40] <Upu> days before AVR's
[21:40] <timbobel> it just takes care of the sequential sampling and therefor transmitting
[21:41] <Upu> makes sense
[21:41] <Upu> very nice
[21:41] <Upu> when's it launch ? :)
[21:41] <timbobel> but i think the thing it came in is very cool too to use myself
[21:41] <timbobel> ehm, im goi ng to MX the whole of July
[21:41] <timbobel> so, august, first week.
[21:41] <Upu> very nice
[21:42] <timbobel> Depends on when steve ships the balloon, and when i receive my friggin' NTX2 modules from the belgianz
[21:42] <Upu> I got one yesterday
[21:42] <Upu> been on order for weeks
[21:42] <timbobel> or; does someone have a easy in-stock solution to getting a NTX2-25mW verion??
[21:42] <Upu> mine is the 10mW
[21:43] <timbobel> yeah, the belgian had that one in stock. it literally took me mány many hours of googling before finding that belgian
[21:44] <Upu> anyway back to Eagle I need a break out board for my GPS chip
[21:44] <timbobel> which chip
[21:45] <Upu> inventek ISM http://www.inventeksys.com/html/ism300f2-c5-v0004.html
[21:46] <timbobel> SiRF?!
[21:46] <timbobel> o high alt
[21:46] <timbobel> niiice
[21:46] <timbobel> wow specifically for baloons haha
[21:46] <Upu> yeah
[21:46] <Upu> SiRF and high altitude
[21:46] <timbobel> $33?????????
[21:47] <Upu> and quite cheap
[21:47] <Upu> yeah and has a connector for the aerial on it
[21:47] <timbobel> PM
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[21:52] <DanielRichman> The Alien#2 payload is gonna have quite a few board-board connections, usarts and such off from the main board. Recommended connector? Are terminal blocks good? Does anyone know where the funky orange ones on BadgerCub ( http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/wiki/doku.php?id=badgercub ) came from?
[21:52] <DanielRichman> http://uk.farnell.com/weidmuller/1715250000/standard-terminal-block/dp/1386722?Ntt=1386722
[21:55] <timbobel> did you just answer your own question
[21:57] <DanielRichman> well there were many parts to my question
[21:57] <DanielRichman> and I'm not sure if those are the ones
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[22:09] <fsphil> I used normal 2.54mm headers -- but quite a few got bent and twisted on landing
[22:09] <fsphil> nice and light though
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[22:30] <simhed> guys, has anyone here ordered balloons from Kaymont? i'm wondering how long does the delivery take..
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[22:33] <sbasuita> simhed: most people here order from randomsolutions.co.uk
[22:33] <DanielRichman> simhed, http://randomsolutions.co.uk/home.htm RocketBoy/steve imports them and runs a shop
[22:33] <DanielRichman> dah sbasuita
[22:33] <DanielRichman> you're too fast for me -.-
[22:33] <sbasuita> don't get merked ;)
[22:34] <DanielRichman> could you, with your insane speeds, go give falcom.de a kick? it's not responding
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[22:34] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: i fixed it
[22:35] <DanielRichman> !!!
[22:35] <DanielRichman> eh you lied :(
[22:35] <DanielRichman> d/w, google cache has saved me
[22:35] <DanielRichman> but there's no pictures in the cache! arrrgh!
[22:35] <DanielRichman> my pinouts!
[22:35] <sbasuita> archive.org
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[22:36] <DanielRichman> tried it
[22:36] <DanielRichman> nothing :'(
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[23:03] <jcoxon> evening al
[23:03] <jcoxon> l
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> To quote Paul Simon, you can call me Al.
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[23:07] Action: SpeedEvil is having problems with a patient. I suspect vine weevil.
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> Though I have no real clue.
[23:08] <jcoxon> hehe
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> This gardening thing can be annoying.
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[23:50] Nick change: brennen -> brennen|out
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[00:00] --- Thu Jun 24 2010