highaltitude.log.20100621

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[01:02] <natrium42> d'oh
[01:03] <natrium42> \o/
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[07:32] <jcoxon> stop summoning people!
[07:32] <jcoxon> it all comes to me
[07:32] <fsphil> ah, sorry :)
[07:33] <jcoxon> fsphil, did you update dl-fldigi to the latest fldigi?
[07:33] <fsphil> I did, not too many changes
[07:34] <jcoxon> cool
[07:34] <jcoxon> i'll pull it into my master then
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[09:19] <russss> http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/44000/44348/ISS023-E-58455_lrg.jpg
[09:20] <jcoxon> russss, wow cool
[09:20] <russss> that's a seriously lucky exposure
[09:20] <russss> that they managed to get the stars as well
[09:21] <jcoxon> yeah its a challenge to get Aurora pics
[09:21] <fsphil> must have been a good storm, the iss doesn't normally get that close to the aurora
[09:21] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/3125977655/in/set-72157611428980429/ :-D
[09:21] <russss> it's a challenge when you're not moving at 8km/sec!
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[09:56] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
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[10:01] <fsphil> pong jcoxon
[10:02] <jcoxon> oh i was wondering if you could pull my latest and see if it works
[10:03] <fsphil> aye, lemme see
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[10:17] <fsphil> seems fine, decoding ok
[10:17] <jcoxon> okay select wb8elk
[10:17] <jcoxon> autoconfigure
[10:17] <jcoxon> and then play with the new switch button below time since Rx
[10:18] <fsphil> the 'NULL' button which I hadn't noticed turned to '2 modes'
[10:18] <jcoxon> click on that
[10:18] <jcoxon> rapid changing between formats :-D
[10:18] <fsphil> sweet, seems to be working
[10:18] <jcoxon> great
[10:19] <fsphil> I've no domino to test but it's in the right mode
[10:19] <jcoxon> thats all i've done
[10:19] <jcoxon> just making sure the button didn't break stuff
[10:20] <fsphil> does wb8elk switch between modes in flight?
[10:20] <jcoxon> yes
[10:21] <jcoxon> and he found it annoying having to go up to the menu everytime
[10:21] <jcoxon> when driving
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[13:36] <sbasuita> does dl-fldigi still conflict with fldigi?
[13:37] <jcoxon> sbasuita, i'm not sure that it does
[13:37] <jcoxon> we now store stuff in .dl-fldigi
[13:38] <sbasuita> and the binary name is also different now
[13:38] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:38] <sbasuita> ok i will make a deb and compare to make sure
[13:38] <jcoxon> good idea
[13:41] <DanielRichman> flarq
[13:41] <DanielRichman> will conflict. I think.
[13:41] <jcoxon> didn't we turn off flarq
[13:41] <DanielRichman> it still builds when you type make
[13:42] <DanielRichman> and it still gets bundled witht he windoze installer; is not an issue though because that installs to C:\Program Files\Dl-fldigi...etc.etc.etc
[13:44] <sbasuita> jcoxon: http://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/commit/036e00b72b8e8ee0996f3d4875d502cae05f0913 <--- this commit looks important and comes after tagging r111
[13:44] <sbasuita> jcoxon: could you tag a later version for a tarball please?
[13:45] <fsphil> I found a few conflicts when packiging for fedora, icon names and such
[13:45] <sbasuita> fsphil: do you have a list?
[13:45] <jcoxon> hmmm whats the best way to do that
[13:45] <jcoxon> my master has some new stuff in it
[13:46] <fsphil> I renamed them in my branch, you should have them now
[13:46] <jcoxon> i mean to tag a later version
[13:46] <DanielRichman> fsphil, did flarq conflict or is that disabled totally?
[13:47] <sbasuita> jcoxon: ideally you should have branched out for unstable code
[13:47] <fsphil> DanielRichman, it did but I have --disable-flarq in the spec file
[13:48] <DanielRichman> ahh sbasuita ^^
[13:48] <DanielRichman> do that. :P
[13:48] <sbasuita> cool
[13:48] <DanielRichman> I think I will try adding that to the windows build scripts
[13:48] <fsphil> might be more sensible to disable it by default though
[13:48] <sbasuita> jcoxon: do you mean you have unpushed commits locally?
[13:50] <jcoxon> sbasuita, the new code isn't unstable - its more they are newer features
[13:50] <sbasuita> jcoxon: well you can tag any commit in hisitory
[13:50] <jcoxon> can i go back to where i merged with fsphil's work, tag it again and then jump back
[13:50] <sbasuita> i'll find the command
[13:51] <DanielRichman> you can just git tag commit id, no?
[13:51] <sbasuita> ye
[13:51] <DanielRichman> eg git tag (options) 036e00b72b8e8ee0996f3d4875d502cae05f0913
[13:51] <DanielRichman> random example
[13:51] <sbasuita> yeah
[13:52] <sbasuita> jcoxon: git tag v### 023425287th329t3
[13:52] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, that's a rubbish commit id
[13:52] <sbasuita> init
[13:53] <jcoxon> is there away of deleting a tag
[13:53] <jcoxon> so that i can advance teh v3.20.1.r111
[13:53] <DanielRichman> ahh I should have been using --disable-flarq in the windows builds
[13:53] <sbasuita> i think general practice is to accumulate a history of tags over time, instead of deleting them
[13:53] <jcoxon> if not i'll use v3.20.1.r111b
[13:53] <DanielRichman> well in future they will have .2MB less flarqness
[13:54] <fsphil> yay
[13:54] <sbasuita> jcoxon: use r111.1 instead of a letter
[13:54] <sbasuita> easier for machines to parse
[13:55] <jcoxon> done
[13:56] <sbasuita> chhers
[13:57] <jcoxon> sbasuita, and i've deleted my 111b tag as well
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[15:51] <timbobel> hi all
[15:52] <timbobel> question: turns out i have a SIRF chip; how much does that suck
[15:52] <earthshine> i think it just means your code is going to be more complicated
[15:53] <timbobel> in what way
[15:53] <timbobel> cant i just reset the thingy every 10 mins
[15:54] <earthshine> what for ?
[15:54] <timbobel> so that it does work?
[15:54] <timbobel> i am not sure what happens after 24km
[15:54] <earthshine> What GPS unit is it ?
[15:54] <timbobel> VincotechGPS Firmware GSC3-based Products
[15:54] <timbobel> A Description of the standard NMEA GPS firmware provided
[15:54] <timbobel> on Vincotech’s GPS modules based on SiRFstarIII – GSC3
[15:54] <timbobel> A1080, A1084, A1088, A1035-D, A1035-H
[15:55] <earthshine> so which model is yours ?
[15:56] <timbobel> eh
[15:56] <timbobel> a1080
[15:59] <earthshine> Tyco ?
[15:59] <timbobel> hmm?
[15:59] <earthshine> ahh Tyco = Vincotech
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[16:02] <timbobel> so what about tyco?
[16:03] <earthshine> hang on
[16:05] <jcoxon> i'd avoid sirfIII if you can
[16:05] <timbobel> faaak
[16:06] <timbobel> :'(
[16:06] <jcoxon> well if you are planning to track by radio that is
[16:06] <jcoxon> if just going for gsm and you reset it occasionally then thats fine
[16:06] <timbobel> does it automatically go on below 24km?
[16:06] <jcoxon> some do, some don't
[16:07] <earthshine> The A1080 was designed for indoor use
[16:07] <timbobel> indoor!
[16:08] <timbobel> it is totally worthless indoor
[16:08] <earthshine> according to their flyers
[16:08] <juxta> I've a SIRFIII module that's really good indoors
[16:09] <timbobel> yeah okay, but this is model that's below it, is apparently designed for indoors
[16:09] <timbobel> cant even get a signal in front of a half open window!
[16:10] <earthshine> i can't find any data concerning its altitude limits
[16:10] <timbobel> yeah but dont all SIRFIII's have it?
[16:10] <juxta> earthshine: most SIRFIII's crash/loose lock above 24km
[16:10] <timbobel> pshhh
[16:10] <earthshine> then it's not a lot of use
[16:10] <earthshine> not for tracking anyway
[16:11] <timbobel> yeah unless you make it shut down after 20k, and reboot after 20 mins
[16:11] <earthshine> you could reset it occasionally so at least you could find the payload after landing
[16:11] <timbobel> yeah but the question is, would thát work
[16:11] <earthshine> but you won't be able to find it in flight
[16:11] <earthshine> well it's not guaranteed
[16:11] <timbobel> hahaha
[16:11] <timbobel> omg
[16:11] <juxta> timbobel: sure, that would work - if you cut the power to it you'll reset it fully
[16:11] <earthshine> if i were you i'd look for a GPS module that is known to work
[16:12] <juxta> if it has a reset pin you could pull it low/high, that might work
[16:12] <earthshine> if you can't afford that then do what juxta says
[16:12] <timbobel> yeah allright but i have got almost everything finished.
[16:12] <timbobel> Daniel cleared up my code last night a little :(
[16:12] <timbobel> and what i had was ideal for the arduino
[16:12] <timbobel> any suggestions?
[16:13] <juxta> hm
[16:13] <juxta> how are you using the module?
[16:13] <juxta> is it on a breakout board or something?
[16:13] <juxta> or an arduino shield?
[16:13] <timbobel> modified shield, so it was a good fit
[16:14] <jcoxon> timbobel, i'd go for a lassen iq or a ublox gps
[16:14] <timbobel> i have ordered some custom PCB stuff so it would fit perfectly
[16:14] <jcoxon> i prefer ublox
[16:20] <timbobel> i have to say
[16:20] <timbobel> SIRF chips are very popular
[16:25] <timbobel> hmm
[16:26] <timbobel> i am afraid i will have to shut it down for half an hour after he reaches 22k. is that a good idea?
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[18:35] <timbobel> hi guys, im back with my questions
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[18:35] <timbobel> who can give me some pointers to the T68i???
[18:35] <timbobel> a website or a manual, link, whatever?
[18:36] <jonsowman> timbobel: what about it?
[18:38] <sbasuita> timbobel: http://alienproject.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/a-motherload/ check out the sms section
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[18:39] <timbobel> i know, but the "important pin" link, is broken!
[18:40] <timbobel> oh wait i found something though
[18:40] <sbasuita> timbobel: http://web.archive.org/web/20080527165945/http://pinouts.ru/CellularPhones-A-N/erics_t28_pinout.shtml
[18:40] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, go update the link in our blog; kthxbye
[18:41] <timbobel> do you only need 4 and 10?
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[18:51] <jshriver> good evening gentlemen
[18:51] <timbobel> hi
[18:51] <jshriver> how are you Tim?
[18:56] <timbobel> good. you?
[19:01] <timbobel> Daniel u here
[19:01] <DanielRichman> Hi (got PM)
[19:31] <sbasuita> jcoxon: deb is finished
[19:31] <sbasuita> insructions: add ppa:simrunbasuita/dl-fldigi to software sources
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[19:39] <jshriver> doing alright just a busy day
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[20:01] <edmoore> greetings
[20:01] <edmoore> jcoxon: yes
[20:01] <edmoore> but not till after graduation (sat) now
[20:02] <jshriver> congrats edmoore
[20:03] <edmoore> jshriver: not really congrats worthy! I just survived, that's all :)
[20:05] <jshriver> lol
[20:05] <jshriver> graduating is always a good thing :)
[20:05] <edmoore> true
[20:06] <edmoore> was anyone here at the nova18 launch?
[20:06] <jshriver> <--- yank so nope, but wish I could have been
[20:06] <edmoore> it was pretty. just trying to track down people with pictures and videos to add to the wiki page
[20:07] <jshriver> have a url? was it an endurance flight or altitude ?
[20:07] <edmoore> neither
[20:07] <edmoore> just testing stuff
[20:08] <edmoore> fling a particle sampling experiment flown by a school
[20:08] <edmoore> flying sstv
[20:08] <jshriver> oh nice
[20:08] <jshriver> ham band?
[20:08] <edmoore> and i provided a basic tracker payload and did the balloon/payload-train bit
[20:09] <edmoore> well, the basic tracker payload electronics were made by cusf members, i just tweaked and made a payload box for it
[20:09] <edmoore> yep on 434.075
[20:09] <edmoore> 10mW
[20:09] <edmoore> url... hang on a sec
[20:09] <edmoore> http://ukhas.org.uk/launch:170610nova18pegvii
[20:10] <jshriver> ty
[20:11] <jshriver> What is project squirrel? hehe animal payload?
[20:12] <edmoore> android phone
[20:12] <ejcweb> edmoore: I've got a launch video if you would like it.
[20:12] <edmoore> yes please!
[20:12] <edmoore> plonk it on flickr if you could
[20:12] <edmoore> make a new nova18 set
[20:12] <ejcweb> Ok.
[20:12] <edmoore> ejcweb made the squirrel payload
[20:12] <edmoore> jshriver: all the cusf payloads have woodland animal names
[20:13] <jshriver> adorable
[20:13] <edmoore> the main line of electronics are 'badger'
[20:14] <edmoore> but all the badgers were busy so we used ferret which is a simple arduino-based tracker
[20:14] <edmoore> there's also the 'radiofox' which is the upink controller
[20:14] <edmoore> uplink*
[20:15] <jshriver> been hearing more and more about arduino sbc's
[20:15] <edmoore> they're very very simple to use
[20:15] <edmoore> a good place to start
[20:15] <edmoore> indeed you can go quite a long way with them
[20:17] <earthshine> sbc ?
[20:17] <edmoore> signle board comp
[20:17] <jshriver> two of my bottlenecks is $$ for agood low power mobile aprs rig, and finding a good serial based gps that works over say 25km
[20:17] <edmoore> single*
[20:17] <jshriver> aye
[20:17] <earthshine> i see
[20:17] <edmoore> if you want cheap gps, the lassen iQ is good
[20:18] <edmoore> we used it from nova 6 to nova 13, always worked admirably
[20:18] <jshriver> have heard a most gps "pucks" generally aren't reliable past a certain elevation.
[20:18] <jshriver> thanks for the tip will look it up
[20:18] <edmoore> yeah, it's better to go for something a little less integrated so you can be sure what you're getting
[20:19] <edmoore> if you can stretch to it, something based on the ublox5 will be bomb-proof
[20:20] <jshriver> hehe
[20:20] <jshriver> adding both to my list.
[20:21] <jshriver> sparkfun.com has the lassen iq's for sell and cheaper than the ones I were looking into
[20:21] <jshriver> $56 US
[20:21] <earthshine> what country are you in ?
[20:21] <jshriver> USA
[20:21] <edmoore> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9436 will be spectacular
[20:22] <jshriver> wicked
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[20:23] <edmoore> i can't help you much with aprs as i've had no personal experience using it for ballooning
[20:23] <jshriver> it's ok, think I've found a good solution just a bit pricey. Will have to save up a bit for it.
[20:23] <jshriver> bbiab
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[21:01] <Upu> I'm using http://www.inventeksys.com/html/ism300f2-c5-v0004.html
[21:01] <Upu> but it's a rude word to work with as the pin spacing isn't standard and there are no break outs for it
[21:01] <Upu> The ISM300F2-C5-V0004 module is programmed with HIGH ALTITUDE BUILD, ceiling 135,000 feet, and works at cold temperatures for ballon applications.
[21:01] <edmoore> nice
[21:02] <edmoore> doesn't look impossible to solder with a decent nib
[21:02] <Upu> well I've already trashed one
[21:02] <edmoore> and sirfIII is a great engine
[21:02] <Upu> Tryng to desolder it
[21:02] <Upu> They are only £22 each
[21:02] <edmoore> I think solder ovens might be the way forward
[21:03] <Upu> we have a hot air solder station but I don't dare us it on this
[21:03] <edmoore> Upu: where did you buy yours from?
[21:03] <Upu> Direct from Inventek
[21:03] <Upu> got another 2 on the way
[21:03] <Upu> going to make a proper break out for it
[21:03] <edmoore> mcx connector - that's quite nice
[21:03] <edmoore> saves you having to faff with rf pcb layout
[21:04] <Upu> yeah i have the active aerial with it too
[21:04] <edmoore> might get us a few of them
[21:04] <Upu> http://www.inventeksys.com/html/actpat184-01-ip.html
[21:04] <Upu> only unit I've see which the manufacturer have specifically said it's for balloon use
[21:05] <Upu> very small, low power draw
[21:05] <edmoore> I suspect that's mainly because so many people put pressure on sirfIII to be clearer about their altitude limits
[21:05] <edmoore> as they don't have the legal 60,000ft limit
[21:06] <Upu> they do quite a few
[21:06] <Upu> http://www.inventeksys.com/html/gps_modules.html
[21:06] <edmoore> but they do place an upper bound of 24km in the estimation algorithms running inside the chipset
[21:06] <edmoore> which catches people sometimes
[21:08] <Upu> well I'll get some breakout boards made there will be a few so if you want one I can post it over
[21:08] <Upu> so it pugs in a bread board
[21:08] <edmoore> grand, thanks
[21:09] <edmoore> though we may start to standardize on ublox5 as we have some pretty bombproof libraries for talking to them now
[21:09] <Upu> yeah
[21:09] <Upu> well we'll see i'll go with this for the meanwhile
[21:09] <Upu> never hurts to try something different :)
[21:09] <edmoore> totally!
[21:10] <edmoore> just don't both with venus chipsets
[21:10] <edmoore> their dynamic performance is really pretty crap
[21:10] <Upu> this is a Zeus
[21:10] <Upu> Sadly they won't sell me a Titan chip :)
[21:10] <edmoore> bastards
[21:11] <jonsowman> hi edmoore
[21:11] <Upu> military use only
[21:11] <edmoore> hi jonsowman
[21:11] <jonsowman> hows things
[21:11] <edmoore> not bad. i am making a presentation in a very unfocussed way, icing my right hand and typing with left
[21:12] <edmoore> which is getting quite fast!
[21:12] <jonsowman> haha
[21:13] <jonsowman> been up to much the last week?
[21:13] <jonsowman> apart from learning to type fast one-handed?
[21:14] <edmoore> plenty of work
[21:15] <jonsowman> fair enough
[21:15] <edmoore> you?
[21:15] <jonsowman> started work today
[21:16] <edmoore> oh cool - how is it?
[21:16] <jonsowman> yeh good
[21:16] <jonsowman> really interesting stuff
[21:16] <jonsowman> bit of a long commute but I can live with it for a few weeks
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[21:20] <edmoore> gg
[21:20] <edmoore> flip, sorry
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[22:31] <jcoxon> evening all
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[22:36] <edmoore> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721830907/
[22:37] <edmoore> nova18 lauch
[22:37] <jcoxon> hey ed
[22:37] <edmoore> hi
[22:39] <jcoxon> just stuck that launch video link onto the wiki pafge
[22:39] <edmoore> grand
[22:40] <jcoxon> really smooth launch
[22:40] <jcoxon> was running around so didn't actually watch
[22:40] <edmoore> yeah it was a pretty one
[22:40] <jcoxon> hows tricks?
[22:40] <edmoore> am quite pleased with how it all went. now that we've sort of given up the strict observance of launch times
[22:41] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:41] <edmoore> making a presentation
[22:41] <edmoore> not going to have too late a night
[22:43] <jcoxon> am working on dl-fldigi
[22:43] <edmoore> cool
[22:43] <jcoxon> have added an easy mode switch button
[22:43] <jcoxon> for dual format flights
[22:43] <edmoore> once this is all out the way i will set myself up so I can build it and start playing
[22:43] <jcoxon> :-p
[22:44] <edmoore> an excuse to work on the bayesian demodulation thingamie
[22:44] <jcoxon> hehe
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[22:50] <edmoore> so yes, valve fun soon :)
[22:50] <jcoxon> indeed
[22:51] <jcoxon> i might do some mock designs oh what i've been thinking
[22:51] <jcoxon> for you to eyeball
[22:51] <edmoore> cool
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> I suggest you whittle them out of cheddar.
[22:52] <edmoore> but for now i really should go as my right hand is actually in agony and i am doing this left handed, but really need to push on
[22:52] <jcoxon> eek
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> :/
[22:52] <edmoore> will stay logged in but not v talkative
[22:53] <jcoxon> no problem
[22:57] <jcoxon> griffonbot, should track dl-fldigi changes as well!
[23:07] <stilldavid> github has an IRC hook built-in
[23:08] <jcoxon> hey stilldavid
[23:08] <jcoxon> haven't heard from you in a while
[23:08] <stilldavid> hey, been busy lately... hope to launch again this summer though!
[23:08] <jcoxon> great
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[23:08] <stilldavid> just found out there's a hab launch with 12 balloons a state away in about a month
[23:08] <jcoxon> i'd like to launch Peg VII again
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[23:08] <jcoxon> stilldavid, oh GPSL
[23:08] <edmoore> gpsl?
[23:09] <edmoore> snap
[23:09] <jcoxon> edmoore, yeah i got teh date wrong by a month
[23:09] <jcoxon> was going round saying it was now
[23:09] <jcoxon> oops :-p
[23:09] <stilldavid> jcoxon, yeah, that's it :)
[23:09] <jcoxon> stilldavid, go to it
[23:09] <jcoxon> it'll be amazing
[23:09] <stilldavid> was thinking of a stabilized camera payload
[23:09] <stilldavid> http://www.flickr.com/photos/stilldavid/4707795467/
[23:09] <edmoore> stilldavid: those guys have been doing it for decades
[23:09] <edmoore> they know their bananas
[23:09] <stilldavid> yeah, it seems like it. I emailed back and forth with one of the organizers a bit last week
[23:10] Action: jcoxon wishes he had sparkfun resources
[23:10] <edmoore> paul v?
[23:10] <stilldavid> guy named Zack...
[23:11] <stilldavid> Zack Clobes
[23:11] <edmoore> clobes
[23:11] <edmoore> yeah
[23:11] <edmoore> it'd be fun to go to a gpsl
[23:11] <stilldavid> jcoxon, I wish I had unlimited time...
[23:11] <stilldavid> er, infinite time rather
[23:11] <edmoore> you should definitely try and get there
[23:12] <stilldavid> yes, regardless of whether I'm ready. I can re-use a lot of my last payload, though
[23:12] <jcoxon> stilldavid, i've got that for a bit
[23:12] <stilldavid> but I'm thinking servos for 2 axis then a stepper motor for the third vertical axis for infinite spinnability
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[23:12] <jcoxon> stilldavid, ed is the one to talk to about this :-)
[23:13] <edmoore> you have infinite time for a bit?
[23:13] <edmoore> i've just had a seg fault
[23:13] <jcoxon> free time
[23:13] <stilldavid> for a finite amount of time, yeah :)
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[23:13] <stilldavid> edmoore, seg faults are the worst
[23:13] <edmoore> stilldavid: re:stepper, bear in mind on that exis you have to react against something
[23:14] <edmoore> you will find otherwise you're mainly just coiling the balloon line up
[23:14] <stilldavid> hm. can't think of a solution off hand to that.
[23:14] <edmoore> which will then start to uncoil in a way that wont give you stable pics :)
[23:15] <stilldavid> well, easy enough to solve with a piece of fishing tackle or a joint from a kite
[23:15] <edmoore> momentum wheels
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[23:15] <stilldavid> yes, I was looking at some gyro type flywheels, but most are (understandably) heavy
[23:15] <edmoore> you'll find the friction of a pivot to be huge relative to the kind of torques you are looking at
[23:15] <stilldavid> might have a friend machine one from aluminum. doesn't need too much mass I don't think
[23:16] <edmoore> i think you need a way to actively decouple the gondola from the suspension
[23:16] <stilldavid> ... another stepper!
[23:16] <edmoore> exactly!
[23:16] <stilldavid> and to decouple that....
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> A Shrubbery!
[23:17] <edmoore> a disclaimer is that my thesis was on stabilisation of small balloon gondolas
[23:17] <stilldavid> how high can an unladen swallow fly?
[23:17] <stilldavid> uh, pdf link please!
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> stilldavid: Alive or ballistically?
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[23:18] <edmoore> i've been asked to keep tabs on it for a few weeks by my supervisor. it got me a decent distinction and so might get whipped into something publishable. but i will try and sort that ASAP
[23:18] <stilldavid> I'd love to read it in any state you can send it regardless of publishability
[23:19] <stilldavid> but no pressure or anything. It's probably over my head anyway
[23:19] Action: SpeedEvil wishes magnetic bearings were simpler.
[23:19] <edmoore> as the paper worthy stuff is kind of specificly nerdy bits of bayesian inference rather than the general project itself
[23:19] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: my gap year job was building control systems for mag bearings
[23:20] <edmoore> i wouldn't much like to build a balloon one, that's for sure
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> I also want to play with static maglev.
[23:20] <jcoxon> yay dominoEx is now a valid dl-fldigi format
[23:20] <edmoore> grand
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> The sort with lots of litz in the track, and no circuitry at all.
[23:21] <jcoxon> as in we can define it in the xml and it'll autoselect it
[23:21] <edmoore> stilldavid: I think it can be done with nothing more complex than decoupled PID loops
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: I was wondering a while ago about a maglev bearing for attitude control in spacecraft.
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: Literally a couple of inch ball bearing (or so) with no attachment to the walls other thanthe motors
[23:21] <edmoore> I was chasing 10s of arcseconds of accuracy so was bogged down in lots of kalman filters and robust control methods
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> well - drive coils
[23:22] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: sats use mag bearings for reaction wheels already
[23:22] <edmoore> even some amsats
[23:22] <stilldavid> edmoore, so in english, a reactive control system with a filter on it?
[23:22] <edmoore> the kalman filter was to get the most from mems sensors
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: I know, I was wondering about putting all the reaction wheels into one inherently multi-axis one.
[23:23] <edmoore> the robust control is just using some newish control techniques to deal with system uncertainties
[23:23] <stilldavid> edmoore, with the 9dof IMU from Sparkfun(tm)(R) I used Jordi Munoz's code
[23:23] <stilldavid> http://code.google.com/p/sf9domahrs/source/list
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: were you using 'cheap' MEMs sensors, or the more spendy sort
[23:24] <stilldavid> it's fro AHRS, but it gives kalman-filtered heading, roll, pitch and yaw
[23:24] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: AD
[23:25] <stilldavid> logging the data, it looks smooth enough for simple stuff. haven't done the math, but servos won't give less than a few degrees of accuracy anyway
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> You're looking to do what?
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> Just pics?
[23:26] <edmoore> thats neat, though the kalman bit is a bit puzzling...
[23:27] <stilldavid> yeah, not quite sure just yet. I think I'll start with video that faces the same general direction for a time lapse on the way up
[23:27] <jcoxon> stilldavid, that would be cool
[23:27] <jcoxon> have it point at something notable all the way up
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> The sun is easy.
[23:28] <stilldavid> the kalman is just for the gyro + accelerometer part AFAIK. I didn't get past third semester calc, though :P
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> (though not very pretty) :)
[23:28] <stilldavid> I've seen people use IR sensors for horizon detection
[23:28] <edmoore> heh, the DCM is a neatish representation of attitude
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> stilldavid: I would wonder about using mouse sensors to pick up the sun.
[23:28] <stilldavid> I've been researching a lot of kite aerial photography stuff
[23:28] <edmoore> *bookmarked*
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> stilldavid: Sun + accel +gyro = really quite good attitude reference.
[23:29] <stilldavid> and how do you pinpoint the sun?
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> optical mice cameras have a mode where they can read out sequentially
[23:30] <jcoxon> array of photodiodes
[23:30] <jcoxon> in a line
[23:30] <stilldavid> ah optical mice. was thinking trackball and got way confused
[23:30] <jcoxon> jpeg camera!
[23:31] <stilldavid> jcoxon, saw those pics on flickr, btw. amazing!
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=516-1843-ND
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> Of course.
[23:31] <jcoxon> stilldavid, thanks
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> What you _really_ want is the nice chip inside the wiimote
[23:31] <jcoxon> shame that camera is not being made anymore
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> It does nice stuff like outputting the centroids of the 6 brightest spots in the image
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> which would be awesome for sun-sensing
[23:31] <edmoore> yeah!
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> At stupid framerate too
[23:32] <stilldavid> especially on planets with multiple suns
[23:32] <edmoore> wow that'd be an excellent thing
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> And decent resolution.
[23:32] <stilldavid> might poke around CL for a used wiimote
[23:32] <stilldavid> I'm sure that device has been hacked any way possible too
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> You can get datasheets of that sort of thing - but they are never available.
[23:33] <stilldavid> circa 2006: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/tutorial_info.php?tutorials_id=43
[23:33] <jcoxon> there is one in the hackspace i think
[23:33] <stilldavid> I'll just ask Nate
[23:34] <jcoxon> while i'm on the case - are there any modes people want me to implment in dl-fldigi
[23:34] <jcoxon> anything in the pipe line
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[23:38] <edmoore> would be cool if eventually it could control the tracker
[23:38] <edmoore> but that's a way off
[23:44] <jcoxon> hehe i meant dominoex, rtty etc
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[23:55] <fsphil> would mfsk offer any benefit over rtty?
[23:55] <fsphil> would be pretty easy to do with the ntx2
[00:00] --- Tue Jun 22 2010