highaltitude.log.20100620

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[00:17] <pericynthion> jonsowman: I'm in California
[00:17] <pericynthion> what do you want me to test?
[00:17] <jonsowman> great
[00:17] <jonsowman> http://hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict
[00:18] <jonsowman> in the top right Scenario box, click "Show Debug"
[00:18] <jonsowman> then Run Prediction with the default settings
[00:18] <jonsowman> can you tell me if you get any lines in debug that look like "Polling for progress JSON timed out"
[00:18] <pericynthion> yes
[00:19] <jonsowman> thank you :)
[00:19] <pericynthion> one sec
[00:19] <pericynthion> http://pastebin.com/6gA6TDXH
[00:19] <pericynthion> it took about 30 seconds altogether
[00:20] <jonsowman> did it successfully plot the path?
[00:20] <pericynthion> yeah, landing a bit west of Bishop's Stortford
[00:20] <pericynthion> not sure why it only said it went up to 40% of the GFS download
[00:21] <pericynthion> pretty slick interface you have there
[00:21] <jonsowman> took a while for the ajax request to return at a guess
[00:21] <jonsowman> thank you very much for that, really helpful :)
[00:22] <pericynthion> np
[00:22] <pericynthion> are you at CUSF?
[00:22] <jonsowman> ah I see what happened, the requests kept timing out, and by the time the timeout was large enough that it didn't time out, the predictor had finished
[00:22] <jonsowman> pericynthion: I am
[00:23] <SpeedEvil> I get it saying 'increasing timeout' and it got to 1600ms when it was done
[00:23] <SpeedEvil> I currently have a congested net
[00:23] <jonsowman> Right OK
[00:23] <jonsowman> it will increase upto a max of 2000
[00:24] <pericynthion> where are you guys based now, basement of Baker at CUED?
[00:24] <jonsowman> yeh
[00:24] <pericynthion> how's that working out?
[00:24] <jonsowman> batcave, as ed calls it
[00:24] <jonsowman> it's alright, nice big lab
[00:24] <jonsowman> no GPS signal in there though
[00:24] <jonsowman> and no fume extraction for soldering
[00:25] <pericynthion> real men synthesize their own GPS signal, and the fumes give them strength
[00:25] <pericynthion> it's actually quite easy to build a GPS re-radiator, if you feel inclined
[00:25] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[00:25] <SpeedEvil> http://bellard.org/dvbt/
[00:26] Action: SpeedEvil ponders GPS of that
[00:27] <jonsowman> I've a feeling ed said this is meant to be a non-permanent arrangement
[00:27] <pericynthion> like all the other places
[00:28] <pericynthion> I feel like CUSF is a bit of a homeless drifter which gets poked with a stick and moved on by the authorities every so often
[00:28] <jonsowman> haha yes it seems that way
[00:28] <jonsowman> I liked our old lab tbh
[00:28] <jonsowman> that was good
[00:29] <pericynthion> IFM, or deployable structures?
[00:29] <pericynthion> SpeedEvil: it's a rather higher harmonic than DVB, but I've certainly had a bunch of interference from even 10MHz with sharp edges so I wouldn't rule it out
[00:29] <griffonbot> @apex_ii: main ICs on the PCB in place http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mfb2g09/IMG_0656.JPG #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apex_ii/status/16577653222]
[00:30] <jonsowman> inglis structures bit
[00:30] <SpeedEvil> I still get timeouts at 2000ms - but I suspect that that won't resolve until at least 20s - sometimes loading the map tiles can bog the connection.
[00:30] <jonsowman> hmm I see
[00:31] <jonsowman> I can let it increase the timeout further but I suspect at that point the progress bar will become a bit useless
[00:31] <SpeedEvil> probably
[00:31] <jonsowman> did it throw an error window at 2000?
[00:31] <SpeedEvil> Is it just doing the progress bar?
[00:31] <SpeedEvil> yes
[00:31] <jonsowman> yep just progress bar and writing to the debug window
[00:32] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/results/35333401.png
[00:32] <SpeedEvil> so - not entirely unexpected
[00:32] <jonsowman> hmm yes that's quite slow
[00:33] <jonsowman> but on the other hand I'd like this to work on high latency connections
[00:33] <jonsowman> eg. 3G dongles in cars
[00:33] <SpeedEvil> esp if they've dropped to GPRS
[00:33] <jonsowman> exactly
[00:33] <jonsowman> the auto-adjusting timeout is a start, but it definitely needs more work
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> The 'map' tiles may also be smaller than the hybrid ones
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> the terrain ones I mean
[00:36] <jonsowman> hmm yes I hadn't considered that
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> Around a third of the size
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[00:39] <SpeedEvil> Adding a timezone to 'launch time' might not be a bad plan
[00:40] <jonsowman> yep there is a github issue open for "make everything UTC"
[00:40] <jonsowman> will get around to that ASAP, been sorting out KML stuff today :)
[00:40] <SpeedEvil> Looking shiny, anyway
[00:42] <jonsowman> yeh it's getting there
[00:42] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[00:43] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: night
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[02:13] <fsphil> fedora packages for dl-fldigi uploaded onto my github page, plus a few commits to stop it conflicting with files from fldigi.
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[09:07] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:14] <Upu> morning
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[09:37] <timbobel> Helooo! can someone plz answer a simple Q about radioing
[09:38] <timbobel> i got my hands on a e350,- Yaesu 817.. but, do i really need an antenna tuner with it/what is an antenna tuner and why
[09:38] <DanielRichman> short answer: for HAB you probably won't need it
[09:39] <DanielRichman> long answer: antenna tuner is used when you want to use an antenna for a frequency it's not perfectly designed or "tuned" for
[09:39] <russss> as long as you don't transmit it's fine ;)
[09:39] <DanielRichman> only really useful on HF, where since the wavelength varies much more as the frequency does an antenna tuner is necessary to reach each end of the band
[09:40] <russss> or if you have a massively badly matched VHF/UHF antenna, heh
[09:40] <DanielRichman> yeah but tbf what are you doing with a massivly badly matched VHF/UHF antenna
[09:41] <DanielRichman> the yaseu whip that comes with the 817 is good enough for the majority of the flight, when chasing
[09:41] <russss> yeah. make a better one.
[09:41] <russss> :P
[09:43] <timbobel> aaaah
[09:43] <timbobel> ok so an antenna uner is pointless if i just use the 70cm (the 817 is designed for)
[09:43] <russss> yeah, you can probably get awat with the 70cm whip on the 817
[09:44] <russss> (which is the shorter configuration)
[09:44] <timbobel> does it go 30kmz up the air, the whip?
[09:44] <russss> yep, as long as you're outside
[09:44] <timbobel> duh
[09:44] <timbobel> then i will be taking this 817!
[09:44] <DanielRichman> yeah we only had difficulty decoding on our chase when it was at 30k and we were inside the car
[09:44] <DanielRichman> otherwise it's all fine
[09:44] <timbobel> yeah okay
[09:44] <timbobel> but i have seen lots of configs
[09:44] <timbobel> where there were yagis on top of cars
[09:44] <DanielRichman> they mad
[09:45] <timbobel> they are
[09:45] <timbobel> madly cool
[09:45] <russss> I made my own SO239 1/4 wave ground plane which is on my roof
[09:45] <DanielRichman> I wanted to stick head out of sunroof wielding a yagi and time how long it takes to get pulled over
[09:45] <timbobel> hahaha
[09:45] <russss> so I can track from my PC which is deep inside my house :P
[09:45] <timbobel> in the basement
[09:45] <timbobel> yeah okay okay
[09:46] <timbobel> and how about a good hand held yagi
[09:46] <timbobel> is that better than the whip
[09:46] <DanielRichman> technically yeah but it might not be necessary. It's good to have around though
[09:46] <russss> you can make those yourself too if you're so inclined.
[09:46] <DanielRichman> protip: pillar drill
[09:47] <russss> bit of wood and some wire.
[09:49] <fsphil> is there such a thing as a uhf atu anyway?
[09:53] <timbobel> oh! and i bought myself a T68i
[09:53] <timbobel> i already have my own GPRS/sms module working.. but i liked a backup.
[09:53] <timbobel> you guys can probably help with that lateron, right? ;)
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[11:02] <timbobel> anyone have a good walkthrough for a 70cm directional yagi for habbing?
[11:02] <timbobel> i would like one for the 50km range, and maybe a bigger one so i can help decoding for UK on the beaches of holland
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> I know some people in here have made yagis.
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> But - it's mechanically straightforward.
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> Just the measurements
[11:05] <jonsowman> there are a few sites around the net that'll give measurements
[11:05] <jonsowman> http://www.nr6ca.org/70cmyagi.html
[11:06] <timbobel> ty
[11:06] <timbobel> or- where to buy?
[11:06] <jonsowman> how big are you looking?
[11:06] <jonsowman> the one we use on the CUSF tracker is this one:
[11:07] <jonsowman> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/20909-tonna-70cm-440mhz-yagi-p-2321.html?osCsid=c7bc170d9d9913abd4c83ad890981a7f
[11:07] <jonsowman> but if you want a bigger one for a static mount:
[11:08] <jonsowman> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/719b-cushcraft-70cm-yagi-p-1983.html
[11:08] <fsphil> I use this: http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/a430s10r-diamond-430440mhz-70cm-yagi-p-3962.html
[11:09] <jonsowman> fsphil: wow that's cheap for 13.1 dbi gain
[11:09] <fsphil> yea that's what I thought
[11:09] <jonsowman> has it been good?
[11:10] <fsphil> seems to be good -- I've nothing to compare it against
[11:10] <fsphil> I used it to track my own payload, and one of rjh's
[11:10] <jonsowman> fair enough
[11:13] <fsphil> bit awkward to hold though :)
[11:13] <fsphil> definitely need a tripod
[11:13] <jonsowman> yes true
[11:13] <jonsowman> also it has a SO-239 which is good
[11:14] <jonsowman> hmm that's very tempting
[11:14] <jonsowman> for £50 that's pretty good
[11:15] <jonsowman> can you remember what postage was like?
[11:17] <fsphil> one sec
[11:18] <fsphil> I got it here: http://www.wsplc.com/acatalog/Info_1056.html
[11:18] <fsphil> postage about £6
[11:18] <jonsowman> lovely
[11:18] <jonsowman> thank you :)
[11:18] <fsphil> radioworld where going to charge me £15 postage
[11:19] <jonsowman> ah righty
[11:19] <jonsowman> we'll buy it through the school so don't have to pay VAT, which will offset it a bit
[11:19] <fsphil> sweet
[11:19] <fsphil> I've heard SO-239 is not good at higher frequencies -- is there really that much difference?
[11:21] <jonsowman> i have no idea to be honest
[11:21] <jonsowman> i have also heard that, but I don't know how true it is
[11:21] <russss> define "higher" :P
[11:21] <jonsowman> "Despite the name it is rarely used for actual UHF frequencies as they don't work well above 300 MHz."
[11:21] <jonsowman> wiki
[11:22] <jonsowman> [citation required] tbh
[11:23] <fsphil> In my limited experience, most of the loss comes from the cable
[11:26] <jonsowman> there is a lot of loss in connectors though
[11:26] <jonsowman> but I don't know how different connectors vary in losses at UHF
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[11:36] <timbobel> i found that diamond 10el voor 30eur 2nd hand
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[12:07] <DanielRichman> ahh getting the DAC to work on the xmega is so much easier than using an external chip
[12:11] <juxta> DanielRichman, jcoxon - I tried the new version of dl-fldigi today - awesome work!
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[12:19] <jonsowman> juxta: ping
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[12:45] <juxta> jonsowman: hey there
[12:46] <jonsowman> could I borrow you for a few minutes to test the predictor again?
[12:47] <juxta> sure thing
[12:47] <jonsowman> basically I've implemented code to automatically increase polling timeout
[12:47] <juxta> oh nice
[12:47] <jonsowman> if you could just run a few predictions and watch the debug window
[12:47] <juxta> 2 secs, let me run a couple
[12:47] <juxta> :)
[12:48] <jonsowman> you should see lines in the debug window like "polling for progress JSON timed out" and "increasing timeout from X to Y"
[12:48] <juxta> yep, got it :)
[12:48] <juxta> will run a couple
[12:48] <juxta> 2 secs
[12:48] <jonsowman> thank you :)
[12:50] <juxta> jonsowman: http://pastebin.com/p55tDVyY
[12:50] <jonsowman> excellent
[12:50] <jonsowman> and it worked - plotted the path?
[12:51] <juxta> sure did :)
[12:51] <juxta> let me run another
[12:51] <jonsowman> lovely
[12:52] <juxta> (seems a little slow at the moment)
[12:52] <jonsowman> yeh was just about to say
[12:52] <jonsowman> it's the NOAA server, not me
[12:52] <juxta> thought so
[12:52] <jonsowman> just has the occasional slow day, I'm unsure as to why
[12:55] <juxta> another jonsowman: http://pastebin.com/fQWvWKQp
[12:55] <jonsowman> great
[12:55] <jonsowman> seems to need about 800ms
[12:55] <juxta> ooh, download links too :)
[12:56] <jonsowman> indeed :)
[12:56] <jonsowman> it'll increase timeout up to 2000ms before giving up
[12:57] <jonsowman> seems to work for you, so I'll leave the maximum at 2000 unless others have problems
[12:57] <jonsowman> to be honest, if the request is taking >2secs to return, the progress bar is pretty much useless anyway
[12:58] <juxta> yeah
[12:58] <juxta> I was going to say you could probably be a bit more agressive with the timing ramp-up
[12:59] <juxta> ie, just go from 500ms -> 1000ms
[12:59] <jonsowman> hmm yes thats a good point
[12:59] <jonsowman> OK will do that
[12:59] <jonsowman> done
[13:02] <juxta> all these new tools are great
[13:02] <jonsowman> :)
[13:10] <jonsowman> anyway thanks for that juxta
[13:10] <jonsowman> most helpful :)
[13:11] <juxta> no worries jonsowman
[13:12] <juxta> thanks for being accomodating of us far away types ;)
[13:12] <jonsowman> haha not a problem - the idea is that this thing is useable worldwide
[13:12] <jonsowman> i'm yet to test it on a really high latency connection like 3G or worse, GPRS
[13:13] <jonsowman> but i'd like it to also work on those, if people are wanting to run predictions when they're on the move
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[13:14] <juxta> jonsowman: good point. testing it now for you :)
[13:14] <jonsowman> excellent :D
[13:15] <juxta> oh, damn. I'm over quota on my mobile broadband, I forgot :(
[13:15] <jonsowman> ah no worries, it's something to test and get working in the future anyway
[13:15] <jonsowman> thanks for trying :)
[13:15] <juxta> hehe
[13:15] <juxta> will do it in a couple of days
[13:15] <jonsowman> cheers
[13:18] <jonsowman> github issue made for it
[13:18] <jonsowman> bit busy the next few days but will get round to it ASAP
[13:18] <jonsowman> planning to just poll every, say, 10 seconds instead of 2
[13:18] <juxta> oh right - good idea
[13:18] <jonsowman> and have a huge timeout (5 secs +)
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[13:23] <timbobel> question: for the fldigi: do my coordinates HAVE to be in "Deg","Deg" or can it be "Deg'Mins","Deg'Mins"
[13:31] <cuddykid> timbobel, correct me if i'm wrong people! (I probably am!) but I think, that for it to auto parse and extract your data to upload to server the coordinates have to be in deg, deg otherwise fldigi doesn't recognise them.. but as I said I may be wrong!
[13:37] <juxta> deg, deg is what you want - othwerwise you'll get invalid results
[13:38] <juxta> plus degrees are just nice to work with :)
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[14:12] <timbobel> i know, but i have to computate them to deg,deg; which sucks
[14:12] <timbobel> i did a test with it today, and it failed,
[14:13] <timbobel> i have to go from naggin Char to Long, then computate, then back to Char & Byte, gah
[14:13] <timbobel> it worked with the first 10 locations, but then it totally messed up
[14:13] <timbobel> so i would love to use just Deg.Min,Deg.Min since its so easy
[14:13] <timbobel> but indeed degrees are nice tow ork with
[14:14] <timbobel> maybe someone has a code that does what i just said?
[14:35] <cuddykid> hi guys, just trying to create a 1/4 wave gp antenna like http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4414039114/in/set-72157623572598718/
[14:36] <cuddykid> however the solder doesn't seem to want to stick to the copper clad pcb :S .. any suggestions/tips? I also think the tip of the soldering iron has gone as it doesn't seem to be melting the solder very well at all, surely this is not normal?!
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> flux
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> And tinning.
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> Have you been tinning the tip of the iron?
[14:37] <cuddykid> is that melting the solder onto the tip?
[14:37] <DanielRichman> you'd need to get the copper clad pcb hot, which would be more difficult than it is with soldering pads since it's gonna conduct heat all over the place
[14:38] <jonsowman> yeh we used a very very good soldering iron to make that antenna for ferret
[14:38] <cuddykid> ahh, ok, yes, the picture looks awesome!
[14:38] <jonsowman> make the copper clad centre piece as small as possible
[14:39] Action: DanielRichman will be making one with that design :P
[14:39] <DanielRichman> perhaps with the help of a blowtorch
[14:39] <cuddykid> do you just apply heat from solder iron to copper clad for a min or so?
[14:39] <jonsowman> the iron we used was so good it managed it in a few seconds
[14:39] <jonsowman> but as DanielRichman said, a blowtorch might help
[14:39] <cuddykid> wow! ok, thanks
[14:39] <DanielRichman> also, blowtorches are cool
[14:40] <jonsowman> the solder won't stick until the surface is at the same temperature as the solder
[14:40] <fsphil> you mean hot? :)
[14:40] <cuddykid> it feels like the tip of my iron has gone :S .. do you think its just my technique?
[14:40] <jonsowman> if the iron isn't great then it might just be that the iron can't supply enough power to heat up the copper
[14:41] <jonsowman> the copper is dissipating heat to the environment quicker than the iron can supply it
[14:41] <DanielRichman> cuddykid, is the tip shineh?
[14:41] <DanielRichman> and the solder has to be able to flow around it
[14:41] <DanielRichman> (the tip)
[14:42] <fsphil> what's the best way of cleaning the tip?
[14:42] <cuddykid> DanielRichman, how do you mean? its like dull, the solder doesn't stick to it :S
[14:42] <jonsowman> fsphil: dip it in flux
[14:42] <jonsowman> flick all the solder off the tip that you can first
[14:42] <fsphil> jonsowman, while its hot?
[14:42] <jonsowman> yep
[14:43] <fsphil> right, so remove all solder then flux it
[14:43] <jonsowman> you'll get a cool cloud of smoke and a nice clean tip :)
[14:43] <fsphil> I've been leaving the solder on it
[14:43] <cuddykid> jonsowman, i'll also try that i think!
[14:44] <jonsowman> worth a try, definitely
[14:44] <cuddykid> My iron was only cheap and its 12W, would that be affecting the performance of it?!
[14:44] <jonsowman> probably
[14:44] <jonsowman> soldering onto a piece of copper clad requires more power than you'd think
[14:44] <cuddykid> ok, might pick up a higher wattage :)
[14:44] <jonsowman> or a blowtorch
[14:45] <jonsowman> if you have one
[14:45] <cuddykid> haven't got a small one :( only a big one!
[14:45] <cuddykid> are the gas solder irons any good?
[14:45] <jonsowman> i've got one and it's occasionally useful
[14:45] <jonsowman> especially for things like this
[14:46] <jonsowman> but I'd take a good electrical one over a gas one normally
[14:46] <cuddykid> ok
[14:48] <cuddykid> might pop off to maplin later, seems like i'm living in maplin atm!
[14:48] <jonsowman> haha
[14:48] <juxta> i've only got a cheap iron, it's 20w with a 'turbo' button that ramps it up to 130w
[14:48] <juxta> (while you hold the button down)
[14:48] <jonsowman> i've forgotten the make of the soldering iron we used for ferret antenna
[14:48] <juxta> but it seems to do OK, has a reasonable tip I havent had to replace in a year or two
[14:49] <juxta> jonsowman: goot maybe?
[14:49] <jonsowman> don't think so
[14:49] <jonsowman> Randomskk will know
[15:10] <jonsowman> bbl
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[15:38] <timbobel> 1) solder does NOT stick to any oxidation, so de-oxidize. make sure there is enough rasin, rasin helps a LOT
[15:39] <timbobel> try youtube
[15:43] <Hiena> Ugh...
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[16:30] <juxta_> ping DanielRichman
[16:31] <DanielRichman> sup juxta_
[16:32] <juxta_> not much - had a chance to test the new dl-fldigi, had a bit of feedback - is there somewhere to give feedback etc?
[16:32] <DanielRichman> mmm github issues
[16:32] <DanielRichman> and ze irc channel :P
[16:32] <DanielRichman> and the mailing list I believe
[16:33] <DanielRichman> http://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/issues
[16:33] <juxta_> cheers
[16:33] <DanielRichman> :)
[16:33] <juxta_> you were pretty involved in this version, yeah?
[16:34] <DanielRichman> mmm
[16:34] <juxta_> good work, it seems pretty polished :)
[16:35] <DanielRichman> that's only cause you haven't read the source :P
[16:35] <juxta_> haha
[16:35] <DanielRichman> but thank you :) IT has turned out quite well
[16:35] <juxta_> removing the non-essential functionality in HAB mode is a good idea
[16:36] <DanielRichman> ahh you'll have to see jcoxon about that; was his idea and I believe he implemented it
[16:38] <jonsowman> juxta: have just implemented the high latency mode for the predictor
[16:39] <juxta_> jonsowman: oh cool
[16:39] <juxta_> let me grab another mobile broadband stick and see if it works
[16:39] <juxta_> (the stick that is)
[16:40] <jonsowman> if you don't mind, that'd be great
[16:40] <juxta_> trying it out now
[16:40] <juxta_> well, installing the stick
[16:40] <jonsowman> it will print "Switching to high latency mode" in the debug window if it switches
[16:41] <juxta_> ok
[16:41] <juxta_> back in a second, let's see if it works
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[16:45] <jcoxon> ping timbobel
[16:46] <juxta_> jonsowman: no go on that stick either - wasnt expecting it to work, it was given to me by a carrier as a gesture of good will and was only supposed to work for a month. trying through TOR now though :)
[16:46] <jonsowman> okey doke
[16:48] <juxta_> jonsowman: perfect, worked a treat
[16:48] <juxta_> can I PM you the debug?
[16:48] <jonsowman> yes please :)
[16:48] <jonsowman> excellent
[16:48] <jonsowman> did it eventually plot the trace etc ok?
[16:48] <juxta_> yup
[16:49] <jonsowman> \o/
[16:49] <jonsowman> right that should sort out high latency connections when using the predictor :)
[16:49] <jonsowman> thanks juxta_ :)
[16:50] <juxta_> good work jonsowman
[16:50] <juxta_> no worries - I'm off to bed now!
[16:50] <jonsowman> righty
[16:50] <jonsowman> cheers again for the help - night!
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[19:24] <timbobel> ping timbobel
[19:24] <timbobel> ping
[19:25] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[19:25] <timbobel> OMG i just found out that if you do "6x10000" you will get -5500.. u have to do "6xlong(10000)" OMG
[19:25] <timbobel> spend 3 hours on it
[19:25] <timbobel> spent
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:31] <timbobel> NEED HELP WITH CHECKSUM
[19:31] <timbobel> anyone?!
[19:32] <SpeedEvil> I've never done the NMEA checksum
[19:33] <jcoxon> timbobel, no shouting!
[19:33] <jcoxon> firstly you can use the format that nmea uses
[19:33] <jcoxon> don't necessarily have to use DD.dddd
[19:34] <timbobel> ah really
[19:34] <timbobel> CRAP
[19:34] <timbobel> hahahahaa
[19:34] <timbobel> but i just finished!
[19:34] <jcoxon> secondly there is a wiki page on how to do the checksum
[19:34] <timbobel> $$TIMBOBEL,18:33:29,52.604006,004.699990,11.6
[19:34] <timbobel> is that a good format?
[19:34] <timbobel> maybe thirdly you can give the link =)
[19:34] <jcoxon> pah search yourself!
[19:34] <timbobel> and i hate checksums, can i skip it?
[19:34] <timbobel> or does your fldigi really want it
[19:35] <jcoxon> i recommend it
[19:35] <jcoxon> or you'll make a nasty mess on the map
[19:35] <jcoxon> http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol?s=checksum
[19:35] <jcoxon> XOR is very simple
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[19:36] <timbobel> okay thanks a lot again
[19:40] <timbobel> my gps thinks im in a submarine @ -80mtrs
[19:41] Action: fsphil waves ... I'm at +80 metres
[19:44] <DanielRichman> So I'm thinking of getting a FT817 proper: however I don't want to prevent myself from being able to do worldwide HF so was looking at ways I could boost the power; ie. Linear Amplifiers. However my question is this: there are very few 100W ish linear amps, and the majority that are out there are so expensive that the cost of an AMP + a FT817 is greater than that of say, a FT897 or FT857 which do 100W and 50W in the first place
[19:44] <DanielRichman> anyway. However I have found a few linear amps that are a more reasonable price: but I'm wondering if they are cheaper because they are poor quality. IS the whole small-portable-rig + upgrade later with an amp idea sensible or not?
[19:44] <DanielRichman> Were this possible I'd get the 817 and later upgrade via linear amp if I decide I wanna mess with that stuff.
[19:47] Action: timbobel wants to know which one to use for making own checksum: CRC16 or XOR
[19:47] <fsphil> some people enjoy the challenge of making contacts with 5 watts :)
[19:47] <timbobel> in other news; i bought a 817
[19:48] <fsphil> timbobel, CRC16 is better - xor is simpler
[19:48] <fsphil> I need a second radio, but e-bay seems to be all out of FT790's atm
[19:49] <DanielRichman> true fsphil, and this way I'd be able try that and then choose to get more powerzz if I want. But I don't know if that scheme is sensible.
[19:49] <DanielRichman> forex: how does this look? http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/hla150-150w-amplifier-p-2061.html
[19:51] <DanielRichman> or even this http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/mod351p-amplifier-60200w-kl400-p-5670.html
[19:51] <fsphil> looks very nice. I suppose the big advantage is the FT817 still being portable if needed
[19:51] <DanielRichman> and the ft817 is just awesome
[19:52] <fsphil> it seems a good match for the ft817's output too
[19:53] <DanielRichman> cool. So I'll be able to get the 817 in the knowledge that I can upgrade power later on ;)
[19:54] <fsphil> I've yet to really try making HF contacts yet -- unfortunately wspr doesn't count :)
[19:58] <DanielRichman> HF is jokes
[19:58] <DanielRichman> I talked to someone in Germany :o
[19:59] <DanielRichman> (school HF kit)
[20:01] <fsphil> sweet .. the range of HF is just silly
[20:01] <DanielRichman> that was LSB voice
[20:01] <DanielRichman> with cw or data apparently you can go the full way around the world
[20:02] <DanielRichman> on 5W.
[20:02] <fsphil> my wspr signal was received in australia a few times
[20:02] <DanielRichman> :)
[20:02] <fsphil> but voice, I hear the odd US'ian but usually pretty quiet
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[20:07] <fsphil> what sort of antenna are you going to put 100 watts into?
[20:08] <DanielRichman> big ones
[20:08] <DanielRichman> not sure
[20:09] <DanielRichman> depends on what kind of antennas I have success putting 5W into
[20:09] <DanielRichman> longwire.... maybe a dipole
[20:09] <DanielRichman> I've seen some people set up dipoles inside their attic, to save them going up on the roof
[20:09] <DanielRichman> obviously doesn't work as well as something actually on the roof and probably isn't great for EMC
[20:10] <fsphil> I've had mixed success with an inverted V in the back garden, but it does seem to pick up a lot of local noise
[20:10] <fsphil> I think someone nearby has a power line ethernet adapter
[20:10] <DanielRichman> :O
[20:11] <DanielRichman> cut power to nearby houses one by one and see which one kills the noise
[20:12] <fsphil> hehe, if only
[20:12] <fsphil> knowing my luck it's something in my own house
[20:12] <SpeedEvil> I have contemplated that solution to my DSL problems.
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> To diagnose.
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> I know where the cutoff for is the village, and it only needs one small padlock boltcuttered.
[20:13] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, I trust you know it's not something in your house?
[20:13] <DanielRichman> Couldn't you blow the local fuse?
[20:13] <DanielRichman> that would be a little more subtle
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: I've turned the mains power off, and ran the laptop from a UPS
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> so, I'm 99.999% sure.
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[21:47] <Crook> hi
[21:48] <timbobel> hi
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[21:49] <rjharrison> Hi james
[21:49] <rjharrison> Just working on presentation for Wednesday
[21:50] <Crook> Im interested in getting a flight done for my school. Im a secondary teacher, into electronics, into arduino building and programming and general DIY projects. How much do you think I could get a system in the air and back down for? And as a side question, is anyone doing flights with no radio transmitter, just a phone gps fix? risky but cheaper?
[21:50] <jcoxon> rjharrison, cool
[21:50] <jcoxon> Crook, very easy
[21:51] <jcoxon> so if you were to take the radio route:
[21:51] <jcoxon> gps + arduino + radio transmitter ~ ?60
[21:52] <jcoxon> i recommend the radio route - its not too difficult, more fun and inclusive
[21:52] <Crook> that cheap? I thought the radio transmitter was kind of 100 quid is?
[21:52] <jcoxon> being able to tracki teh flight etc
[21:52] <jcoxon> the transmitter is 14
[21:52] <Crook> ahh well that changes things then
[21:52] <jcoxon> the receivers are more expensive
[21:52] <Crook> ahh cool
[21:52] <jcoxon> but
[21:52] <jcoxon> we have a system of receivers around the country so if you give warning people can listen in on your behalf
[21:53] <Crook> that would be helpful and very cool yes. I think if I was building a transmitter into the thing though, id want to receive myself
[21:54] <jcoxon> would this be for school or individual
[21:54] <jcoxon> ?
[21:55] <Crook> school project. Im just investigating at the moment to see if it's doable, and rough costing. this would be for next academic year, so the kids would have a long time to design, build etc
[21:55] <jcoxon> the yes go for
[21:55] <jcoxon> it
[21:55] <jcoxon> where are you based roughly
[21:55] <Crook> ive run a robotics club this year but i think going into near space is a whole lot cooler
[21:55] <Crook> newbury
[21:55] <russss> depending on where you are you might be able to borrow a receiver off someone.
[21:56] <jcoxon> yeah i have a ft790 that can be borrowed
[21:56] <jcoxon> but i also encourage the purchasing of an old radio
[21:57] <Crook> i mean, ive no idea where id get the balloon from, or the helium cylinder either. just clueless at the moment. Im a science teacher by trade so i might be able to get us to invest in a small He cylinder for the dept
[21:57] <jcoxon> have you seen the ukhas wiki?
[21:57] <Crook> ideally id want a self sufficient setup
[21:57] <sbasuita>
[21:57] <sbasuita> oops
[21:57] <sbasuita> :P
[21:57] <sbasuita> oh btw Crook i'm in bracknell
[21:57] <Crook> ive been reading the site yeah, and the links from it
[21:58] <jcoxon> great
[21:58] <jcoxon> lots of good info
[21:59] <Crook> yeah, ill have to go through it properly, but something that didnt jump out at me was sourcing components and materials.
[21:59] <DanielRichman> school project eh?
[21:59] <DanielRichman> let the students call up the companies and ask for freebies
[21:59] <DanielRichman> trust me
[21:59] <jcoxon> Crook, DanielRichman sbasuita are gcse students
[21:59] <Crook> ahhh thats not a bad idea
[21:59] <jcoxon> who launched recently
[21:59] <jcoxon> they wrangled lots of free stuff
[21:59] <sbasuita> jcoxon: not gces any more; sixth form ;P
[22:00] <jcoxon> pah
[22:00] <jcoxon> havent got results yet
[22:00] <jcoxon> -> still gcse
[22:00] <sbasuita> in limbo
[22:00] <jcoxon> :-p
[22:00] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, until we get the results we're GCSE and we can still get free stuff
[22:00] <Crook> what sort of freebies did you score?
[22:00] <sbasuita> Crook: pretty much everything
[22:00] <sbasuita> Crook: power, transmitter, gps
[22:01] <DanielRichman> oh yeah you have to call Energiser
[22:01] <DanielRichman> they're great
[22:01] <Crook> thats madness :) you must be great on the phone to score that. I dont know if our kids would be that persuasive, but you never know :)
[22:02] <Crook> energiser for the lithium batts, or just a give us what you can kind of thing?
[22:02] <jcoxon> the lithiums
[22:02] <sbasuita> Crook: 'ultimate lithiums'
[22:02] <DanielRichman> no it's better than that. We asked for 24 lithiums, figuring 2 tests and a flight.
[22:02] <DanielRichman> they gave us 24 packs of 4 :)
[22:03] <Crook> :) that is pretty generous of them. did they want anything in return?
[22:03] <sbasuita> nope
[22:03] <DanielRichman> I think it was a mistake
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[22:03] <Crook> :) nice mistake then
[22:04] <sbasuita> mmm
[22:04] <shauno> sounds like the generosity was genuine, but the over-supply was a mistunderstanding. still pretty cool of them
[22:04] <sbasuita> anyway we've got a huge school grant now :D
[22:04] <DanielRichman> indeed
[22:04] <DanielRichman> the old boys association for our school run an "Enterprise" program to sponsor student projects
[22:05] <Crook> very cool yeah. I doubt our school would give me much - tight as they are, but if we got some usable pics we would get some good press, so that might swing it
[22:05] <DanielRichman> oh definitely
[22:05] <Crook> i think the kids involved might be able to rustle up sponsor money anyway
[22:06] <sbasuita> hehe http://alienproject.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/energizer-note.jpg
[22:07] <DanielRichman> perhaps a breakdown in communication; head of marketing shouts at marketing assistant to send X batteries
[22:07] <Crook> very nice of them. id never thought about asking
[22:08] <jcoxon> Crook, so they should be able to find everything online
[22:08] <jcoxon> for balloon supplies etc try: http://www.randomsolutions.co.uk/
[22:09] <DanielRichman> transmitter: radiometrix
[22:09] <Crook> are you all using modified firmware cameras, to wake them up and shut them off or are flights short enough to keep the camera awake for the whole trip?
[22:09] <Crook> oh god, lots of info. i got to copy this down
[22:09] <DanielRichman> oh yeah Crook on lithiums the camera will run for 10hrs or something crazy
[22:09] <DanielRichman> a560 is used by rjharrison and we flew one with great success
[22:10] <Crook> thats great, lots of pics to get then
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[22:13] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
[22:15] <timbobel> coxon!
[22:15] <timbobel> how much lift do you recommend a balloon
[22:15] <jcoxon> really depends
[22:15] <jcoxon> what sort of flight do you want?
[22:15] <timbobel> quick flight, doesnt have to be high
[22:16] <timbobel> payload.. dunno, 2 cams, controller, styrofoam..
[22:16] <Crook> ok, lots to read about and plan. im going to go do that, but Ive a feeling ill be back. I just want to say, thanks for the info and advice and ideas. youve been very welcoming. :)
[22:16] <jcoxon> timbobel, http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/
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[22:18] <timbobel> already there, thats why i ask, how much lift do you reocmmend
[22:18] <jcoxon> well thats the point of the calculator
[22:20] <timbobel> hmm
[22:20] <timbobel> but i ask for your experience, what is a nice ascent rate then?
[22:21] <jcoxon> 5m/s is pretty good
[22:21] <timbobel> tanks
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[23:13] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Quit: The cake is a lie !
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[23:20] <Laurenceb> hi folks
[00:00] --- Mon Jun 21 2010