highaltitude.log.20100530

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[07:59] <billy31> hi
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[12:06] <earthshine> morning
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[12:42] <RocketBoy> telent launch today - http://www.ustream.tv/channel/xaben
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[13:01] <RocketBoy> telent launch today - http://www.ustream.tv/channel/xaben
[13:01] <Randomskk> telent?
[13:13] <LazyLeopard> Where from?
[13:14] <LazyLeopard> Is that from EARS?
[13:15] <LazyLeopard> Sure looks windy there!
[13:20] <LazyLeopard> RocketBoy: Any tracking needed?
[13:32] <RocketBoy> no tracking - its text only
[13:32] <jonsowman> RocketBoy: launch from where?
[13:32] <RocketBoy> ears
[13:32] <jonsowman> right
[13:33] <LazyLeopard> Looks like it could blow a fair distance... ;)
[13:34] <LazyLeopard> ...if the way the trees were waving's any indication of the wind speed...
[13:34] <G8TMV> yes, it's very windy here
[13:34] <Randomskk> RocketBoy: any ideas on ascent/decent/burst?
[13:34] <LazyLeopard> G8TMV: And here.
[13:35] <G8TMV> the cusf tracker thinks it's going to end up in France
[13:35] <LazyLeopard> Oops!
[13:35] <G8TMV> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/#
[13:36] <G8TMV> and click the last red dot
[13:36] <Randomskk> 40k burst?
[13:36] <jonsowman> yeh that launch scenario is entirely wrong for this launch
[13:36] <G8TMV> Hmm.. probably
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[13:38] <Randomskk> damn
[13:38] <Randomskk> I wonder what the scenario is
[13:38] <jonsowman> 4/5/30k will probably be roughly right
[13:38] <jonsowman> seems about standard
[13:38] <Randomskk> true
[13:39] <G8TMV> well if it's a more usual 30km burst then it will only go 0.75 of the distance shown before it bursta - which will probably result in a splashdown in the channel
[13:39] <Randomskk> the ascent can vary massively though
[13:39] <jonsowman> yeh
[13:39] <Randomskk> running a prediction for 4/5/30
[13:39] <Randomskk> oh dear
[13:39] <Randomskk> the results are not pretty
[13:39] <Randomskk> almost gets to Lille
[13:40] <Randomskk> burst over the channel and touchdown a little way out from Lille
[13:40] <G8TMV> mon dieu
[13:40] <jonsowman> catastrophe!
[13:40] <G8TMV> <g>
[13:40] <Randomskk> that's not great
[13:40] <Randomskk> maybe faster ascent
[13:41] <Randomskk> 6/5/28 running
[13:41] <Randomskk> jonsowman: can we display previous predictions by sha1 yet?
[13:41] <jonsowman> Randomskk: using v2?
[13:41] <jonsowman> no
[13:41] <Randomskk> :(
[13:41] <jonsowman> won't take much doing but i'm examining out of balance rotors atm
[13:41] <Randomskk> okay 6/5/28 gives
[13:41] <Randomskk> well
[13:42] <Randomskk> it misses france by about 20 meteres
[13:42] <Randomskk> splashdown on the beach
[13:42] <Randomskk> hahaha in fact
[13:42] <jonsowman> nice
[13:42] <Randomskk> going on satellite view
[13:42] <G8TMV> I guess we have to hope he has a ferry ticket then
[13:42] <Randomskk> it hits where the surf breaks
[13:42] <jonsowman> or a friend in France with a boat
[13:43] <G8TMV> I wonder if the cell phone he's using for the sms has roaming enabled
[13:43] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/splashdown.png
[13:43] <Randomskk> oh wow, google maps satellite view on fast internet is fantastic
[13:43] <Randomskk> tiles load really, really quickly
[13:43] <G8TMV> Hmm.. it won't let me see that
[13:44] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/splashdown.png doesn't work?
[13:44] <jonsowman> Peer's certificate has an invalid signature.
[13:44] <Randomskk> curious
[13:44] <Randomskk> works on chrome
[13:44] <jonsowman> FF complains about untrsuted connection
[13:44] <Randomskk> wonder if it needs intermediates
[13:44] <jonsowman> then even if I add exception, "Secure Connection Failed"
[13:44] <Randomskk> so it does
[13:44] <Randomskk> was it doing that last night?
[13:45] <jonsowman> nope
[13:47] <Randomskk> now?
[13:47] <G8TMV> ok
[13:48] <jonsowman> still untrusted
[13:48] <jonsowman> can see it with an exception though
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[13:49] <Randomskk> http://lists.octality.com/pipermail/cherokee/2010-May/012879.html
[13:49] <jonsowman> weird
[13:49] <jonsowman> restart cherokeee...?
[13:51] <Randomskk> and now?
[13:51] <jonsowman> works
[13:51] <Randomskk> curious
[13:52] <Randomskk> jonsowman: https://selwx.com ?
[13:53] <jonsowman> fine
[13:53] <Randomskk> okay
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[13:56] <Randomskk> think I found and resolved the issue
[13:56] <jonsowman> go on
[13:57] <Randomskk> it looks like it wasn't loading chain certificate files properly, so I just added the chained certificates to the end of the normal host certificate as one long file and now cherokee provides browsers with every required certificate from the root down to mine to verify the whole trust chain
[13:57] <Randomskk> the other issue seems unrelated
[13:57] <jonsowman> cool
[13:58] <Randomskk> oh man 2pm
[13:58] <jonsowman> lol
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[15:42] <fsphil> evening all
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[17:10] <RocketBoy> The telent payload landed near Brugge Belgium
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[17:11] <G8TMV> wow
[17:11] <m0tek> what's up?
[17:11] <G8TMV> Did he find it yet?
[17:12] <m0tek> are there any instructive url's for this flight?
[17:13] <RocketBoy> They guys are going over to get it
[17:13] <RocketBoy> Nope no URL
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[17:13] <m0tek> where are they based?
[17:16] <RocketBoy> It was a 500g balloon, 24" chute, polystyrene box, GPS/GSM/GPRS mini tracker and canon CHDKed camera - thats it - outstanding simplicity
[17:17] <RocketBoy> A couple of guys one from Kent, one from Birmingham.
[17:17] <m0tek> cool
[17:17] <m0tek> not using dl-fldigi though?
[17:20] <RocketBoy> no fldigi - just one of these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Realtime-GPS-GSM-GPRS-Tracker-mini-track-device-/260594879526?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_GPSSystems_GPSSystems&hash=item3cacaa4c26 and a compact camera
[17:21] <m0tek> fun. where'd they launch from?
[17:21] <RocketBoy> EARS
[17:22] <m0tek> am looking forward to 'bears take 2
[17:22] <RocketBoy> this years bears?
[17:22] <m0tek> yes
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[17:23] <m0tek> hi jcoxon
[17:24] <jcoxon> afternoon al
[17:24] <jcoxon> l
[17:24] <jcoxon> anything exciting today?
[17:24] <sbasuita> jcoxon: RocketBoy tells us some guys landed a balloon in belgium
[17:24] <jcoxon> oh wow
[17:24] <sbasuita> 500g with gps/gsm and chdk only
[17:24] <jcoxon> and gsm worked on begium?
[17:24] <sbasuita> 500g balloon that is
[17:25] <sbasuita> jcoxon: i assume so
[17:25] <jcoxon> wow thats impressive
[17:25] <RocketBoy> it was impressive in its simplicity
[17:25] <jcoxon> who were these guys?
[17:26] <jcoxon> did they look at the predictor?
[17:26] <jcoxon> slightly mad to launch ?
[17:26] <RocketBoy> just some guys who work in company together and decided to do it
[17:27] <jcoxon> great
[17:27] <jcoxon> sounds fun
[17:27] <RocketBoy> nope - they didn't look at much at all as far as I can tell.
[17:27] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:27] <RocketBoy> yeah - they say they are off to get it
[17:27] <RocketBoy> I'm impressed that the GSM tracker worked in Begium
[17:28] <jcoxon> so am i
[17:28] <jcoxon> well i look forward to pictures then :-)
[17:30] <jcoxon> i think we shouldn't encourage trans-channel crossings - not sure the legalities :-p
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[17:35] <russss> we should have a chase boat
[17:35] <russss> see if we can catch a balloon at sea
[17:36] <G8TMV> or a Herc with the catcher on the front like nasa use for grabbing satalite payloads on re-entry
[17:36] <russss> heheh
[17:37] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: I know what you mean
[17:37] <G8TMV> actually a rutan long-ez or some other pusher prop homebuilt would work
[17:37] <RocketBoy> BBL
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[20:44] <cuddykid> How does everyone go about powering the payload? Would the best option be to use a central power supply of lithiums around 8 of them and then use potential divider out of resistors to split voltage up for different components? Thanks!
[20:49] <cuddykid> Anyone?!
[20:49] <fsphil> it sometimes takes a minute :) not everyone is sitting at their computer
[20:50] <cuddykid> Sorry! I'm a newbie here!!
[20:50] <fsphil> personally, I'm using a few lithium batteries and a voltage regulator to get the required level
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[20:51] <fsphil> You may have already seen this, but there's a good page on batteries here: http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:power_supply?s=lithium
[20:52] <cuddykid> Ok, as my components require different voltages (3.3 for gps and around 8 for arduino) would potential divider and regulators work well do you think?
[20:52] <cuddykid> I'll take a look, thanks
[20:53] <fsphil> the arduino probably has a 5v regulator on the board, it should be able to take a range of voltages
[20:53] <fsphil> but you'd need to be sure
[20:55] <fsphil> if you can access the 5v on the board, you might be able to power the gps with this via a 3.3v regulator
[20:55] <cuddykid> Yeah it has, it also has an output of 3v3 which would be suitable for the gps and radio but I wasn't to sure about running everything off the arduino :/ would there be any negatives to doing so?
[20:55] <fsphil> depends on how much current the gps receiver uses
[20:56] <fsphil> it might push the 3.3v regulator above it's limits, and overheat
[20:56] <cuddykid> Ok, I think it's around 27mA
[20:56] <cuddykid> Yeah
[20:57] <fsphil> you could try it, just make sure it doesn't get too hot
[20:57] <cuddykid> Yeah, I'll have a read up on the current values etc, thanks
[20:58] <cuddykid> What antenna do you guys use for ntx2 radio on board?
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[21:02] <fsphil> I used a thing called a bazooka, basically some coax with the outer shield pulled back over the cable
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[21:03] <fsphil> a quarter wave vertical is more common though
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[21:15] <cuddykid> Ok, have you any links to tutorials or pics how to build quarter wave vertical?
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[21:15] <cuddykid> Or is it just a length of wire quarter the wavelength ?!
[21:16] <fsphil> that and some kind of ground plane -- basically a few more wires the same length, at 90 degrees. I'll try and get a picture
[21:16] <cuddykid> Cool! Thanks
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[21:21] <fsphil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4413273403/
[21:22] <fsphil> not as good a photo as I remembered to be honest :)
[21:22] <cuddykid> Thanks anyway! Will take a look
[21:22] <cuddykid> What's the material it's made out of?
[21:23] <fsphil> just a wire
[21:23] <cuddykid> Ok
[21:24] <fsphil> the straw keeps it straight
[21:25] <cuddykid> Good idea!
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[21:27] <cuddykid> What type of wire would be best do you think? Copper?!
[21:28] <fsphil> don't think it really matters .. just as long as you can solder it
[21:29] <cuddykid> Ok, thanks for your help g2g
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[21:41] <rjharrison> Hum I have to say cuddykid is all about get what he needs and off
[21:41] <rjharrison> Hi fsphil hows it going
[21:41] <rjharrison> potential divider won't work me thinks dur to the current draw
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[21:52] <rjharrison> http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Strange-News/Balloon-Man-Jonathan-Trappes-English-Channel-Crossing-Bid-Is-A-Success-Daredevil-Lands-In-France/Article/201005415639649?lpos=Strange_News_Third_Home_Page_Article_Teaser_Region__2&lid=ARTICLE_15639649_Balloon_Man_Jonathan_Trappes_English_Channel_Crossing_Bid_Is_A_Success%3A_Daredevil_Lands_In_France
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[22:02] <fsphil> hiya rjharrison, not too bad yourself?
[22:05] <fsphil> haha, it's a registered aircraft
[22:05] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, mmm I agree unless you want to start messing with op amps a vreg is probably easier. I don't trust the 3v3 regulator on the arduino enough though
[22:06] <fsphil> bit too weensy maybe
[22:06] <DanielRichman> yeah the "3v3 regulator" on the arduino board is actually just the regulator inside the FTDI chip
[22:06] <DanielRichman> though it does have one advantage
[22:07] <DanielRichman> if you accidentally your lassen iQ as I did, and connect it backwards & short circuit (the cable was the wrong way around :P) rather than blowing the iQ to pieces the FTDI chip just fails and gets nice and toasty
[22:07] <DanielRichman> once it cools down it's fine
[22:07] <DanielRichman> well. "fine"
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[22:11] <Randomskk> fcvo fine
[22:11] <Randomskk> fsphil: there is a better photo of the 1/4 wave http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4413279333/in/photostream/ I guess
[22:13] <Randomskk> woo, exciting pretty and better new predictor web interface
[22:13] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, nice
[22:14] <DanielRichman> does farnell.com just not work in Chrome? I can't get it to behave
[22:14] <fsphil> that's the one I was thinking of Randomskk, just didn't see it
[22:15] <Randomskk> farnell works fine for me in chrome
[22:15] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/new_pred.png
[22:15] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/new_pred_2.png
[22:15] <Randomskk> jonsowman has been working really hard on it =D it is awesome
[22:15] <N900evil> works fine here too
[22:15] <DanielRichman> great
[22:16] <DanielRichman> I hate it when this happens
[22:16] <N900evil> just checked it out with chrome.
[22:16] <DanielRichman> I can't add anything to my basket
[22:17] Action: N900evil tries that.
[22:18] <DanielRichman> hmm I'll keep on beating it
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> clicking on the buy button doesn't seem to work
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> however selecting the quantity box, and hitting enter doe
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> s
[22:21] <DanielRichman> ahh, it seems to have woken up
[22:21] <DanielRichman> thank you :P
[22:21] <DanielRichman> it's weird because pretty much every other feature of this site works
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> I should probably install chrome on my laptop
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> I have 4 browsers on the phone, one on the laptop :)
[22:22] <DanielRichman> chrome is great. It still starts faster than the calculator
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> opera is a bit faster
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> on phone that is
[22:24] <DanielRichman> mmm I got the impression Opera chases the phone & embedded market a bit
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> I finally got a kernel compiling environment setup - 3h to compile - which is silly - but meh.
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> I plan on playing with instrumenting the swap and block layer a bit more to track down why stuff stalls
[22:25] <DanielRichman> 3h compiling! on what, the phone?
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:26] <DanielRichman> can't you cross compile? Or is that more effort than a 3h compile
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> It ended up less effort just to jam it on device
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> than setup the proper SDK
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> I don't really care if a clean compile takes 3h - as I'll be at most screwing with one module
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> There are some really odd decisions.
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> For example - the charge meter chip in the phone is not used
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> So I'm writing a driver for it.
[22:29] <DanielRichman> nice :)
[22:29] <DanielRichman> and then I imagine patching the UI to display it?
[22:29] <DanielRichman> Are you writing the code on the phone too or just compiling ?
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> Well - http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME - there is a project to reverse engineer the BME blob
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> sshing into it
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> but not actually using the keyboard - which while OK for text isn't great for code :)
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> BME is the binary battery userspace driver blob
[22:32] <DanielRichman> Ahh I see you have been editing that page. Were you responsible for "Editing this without understanding can CAUSE YOUR N900 TO CATCH FIRE."? :P
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[22:34] <SpeedEvil1> sshing into it - not directly - while OK for text -t he screen isn't really up to it either
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[22:35] <DanielRichman> I see
[22:37] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[22:48] <fsphil> rjharrison or anyone know the name or model of this eeepc bracket? http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3586294757/
[22:48] <jonsowman> fsphil: looks like a EEE 901
[22:48] <fsphil> the bracket itself though
[22:48] <jonsowman> oh sorry
[22:48] <jonsowman> didn't see the word bracket :P
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[22:59] <DanielRichman> Has anyone here messed with the AVR XMEGA series/or used an "xplain" xmega evaluation board?
[23:00] <DanielRichman> or alternatively, does anyone know whether the people in ##avr are friendly?
[23:00] <Randomskk> I hear they're not
[23:00] <Randomskk> try #sparkfun?
[23:01] <DanielRichman> hmm ok; one second
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[23:06] Action: grummund has an xplain board
[23:15] <DanielRichman> grummund, what's it like? Do the xmegas live up to the tech specs?
[23:15] Action: grummund only used it on a day course ;)
[23:16] <grummund> i'd say they live up to the spec's but not the hype
[23:16] <DanielRichman> oh?
[23:16] <DanielRichman> they're as reliable as the normal megas though?
[23:16] <grummund> yeah i should think so
[23:17] <DanielRichman> ok. Well I need to breadboard & test a few features of the xmegas; planning to use an xmegaa4 on alien-2. But breadboarding a TQFP44 is quite hard :P. So given the cost of pcb manufacturers it looks like an xplain would be the easiest way to go.
[23:17] <grummund> amazing feature set but some people talk about them as if they're some kind of high performance computing engine
[23:18] <DanielRichman> ah well it's the peripherals I'm after, not the CPU
[23:18] <grummund> an 8-bit micro is still an 8-bit micro
[23:18] <DanielRichman> indeed
[23:18] <grummund> xplain doesn't have much i/o broken out to headers
[23:19] <DanielRichman> yeah that was a concern
[23:19] <DanielRichman> most of it's used interfacing to the stuff on the board though
[23:19] <DanielRichman> two ports on the 8 buttons & leds; I think the SDRAM extention takes up another two
[23:19] <grummund> strictly it's a demo board not a dev board
[23:19] <DanielRichman> indeed. But I've checked; and the peripherals I need are broken out.
[23:20] <grummund> ah well, answered your own question then :P
[23:21] <DanielRichman> ok cool. thanks for the infos. Will order one tomorrow :P
[23:22] <DanielRichman> Did you program it using the JTAG or via the USB chip on board?
[23:22] <G8DSU> Just spotted a report of a successful HAB in Portugal today. Tweeting as flyspacebits. Some nice images it seems... http://yfrog.com/bgureyj
[23:23] <grummund> btw, AT90USBKey has a ton of i/o broken out to headers, usb, LEDs and button... worth a look before you order.
[23:24] <grummund> oh and something like 16MB dataflash on board
[23:25] <DanielRichman> yeah I'll be messing with the AT90USB on the xplain board since I might end up using that to program the xmega via PDI. But it's the DAC and ADC of the xmega I'm interested in
[23:26] Action: LazyLeopard wonders whether there's been any news about that launch from EARS this afternoon?
[23:37] <RocketBoy> LazyLeopard: It landed near Brugge Belgium
[23:38] <RocketBoy> the last I heard the guys who launched it were going over to get it back
[23:39] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... A little way to travel ;)
[23:42] <RocketBoy> yep - they didn't have any idea it was going to go that far
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[23:46] <LazyLeopard> Had they run any predictions?
[23:48] <Randomskk> or even glanced at the hourly predictor, which while set for a totally different scenario would at least suggest that now was not the best time to launch
[23:48] <Randomskk> surprised it didn't sink :P
[23:50] <LazyLeopard> Yeah. The way the wind (and the cirrus streaks) have been today, I'd have guessed the middle of the North Sea was a likely landing point...
[23:50] <RocketBoy> LazyLeopard - no they hadn't run any predictions.
[23:52] <LazyLeopard> Ah, well. Lucky for them it landed on land rather than water, then. ;)
[23:53] <RocketBoy> yeah I guess
[23:54] <RocketBoy> was the ustream OK?
[23:55] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, a bit jumpy at times, but caught most of the action (except the moment of release, which I lost in one of those moments of jumpiness)... ;)
[23:58] <RocketBoy> Cool - sounds like I need more bandwidth - It was only running at about 400Kbps
[23:58] <RocketBoy> nights
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[00:00] --- Mon May 31 2010