highaltitude.log.20100516

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[08:31] <rjharrison> Moring edmoore
[08:31] <rjharrison> Success
[08:32] <rjharrison> Well ! in alt but elsewise
[08:32] <edmoore> awesome!
[08:32] <rjharrison> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/sets/72157623945344899/
[08:33] <rjharrison> The USB pulse triggering worked a treat
[08:34] <edmoore> pics of the balloon are great
[08:35] <rjharrison> AS did the £6 servo even at -49.9
[08:36] <rjharrison> edmoore, I'm like you bugger the alt pics. I like the down and up ones
[08:36] <edmoore> yeah. balloon burst would be *awesome*
[08:37] <rjharrison> I am only using 5 of the possible 16gb at the moment so I'm going to increase the amount of video
[08:37] <rjharrison> I will be getting burst on the next launch :)
[08:37] <edmoore> :)
[08:40] <rjharrison> edmoore I have a plan ;-)
[08:40] <edmoore> like the Cyclons
[08:41] <rjharrison> I was please with the servo
[08:42] <rjharrison> I have video which has rotation for the last 30 seconds of the two minutes
[08:42] <rjharrison> Vimeo here I come or possibly you tube
[08:42] <edmoore> awesomenewss
[08:43] <G8TMV> Vimeo is a pain, it doesn't work well on Linux systems
[08:43] Action: G8TMV returns from looking at the piccies - really good
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[09:55] <rjharrison> Hi all
[09:56] <rjharrison> This is the last video before burst from Yesterdays launch NB Servo rotation at ~1:30 and ~1:45
[09:56] <rjharrison> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL0BkWIqJww
[09:58] <rjharrison> It was a bit windy up there
[09:59] <rjharrison> DanielRichman, http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/sets/72157623945344899/
[09:59] <rjharrison> This is the flicker set of pics
[09:59] <rjharrison> flickr
[09:59] <SpeedEvil> :)
[09:59] <fsphil> brilliant, the servo worked flawlessly!
[10:00] <G8TMV> eek! that made be (air)sick
[10:00] <DanielRichman> wow, nice rjharrison
[10:01] <fsphil> motion sickness ... without moving
[10:01] <fsphil> I love the images of the balloon and the black sky
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[10:13] <rjharrison> Yep the pics of the balloon were cool
[10:14] <rjharrison> You can see how much it has expanded during the flight if you compare the first and last pics of the balloon given the distance of the camera from the balloon (~20m) is constant
[10:19] <fsphil> yea
[10:19] <fsphil> there seems to be a fair bit of the balloon still there in the way down
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[10:23] <SpeedEvil> Neat - the pics are lots better pointing straight down
[10:33] <fsphil> should make for a really nice panorama
[10:34] <sbasuita> i really like the downwards facing pics
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[10:48] <rjharrison> All the balloon returned all 3kg of it
[10:49] <rjharrison> This is typical in fact out of 12 launches I have done only one time did the balloon remain separate from the paylaod. This is not what Totex (Kaymont) claim!
[10:50] <fsphil> doesn't look like it bothered the parachute much
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[10:52] <SpeedEvil> rjharrison: have you thought about contacting them?
[10:52] <fsphil> I'll definitely be trying your rules of thirds next time
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> Maybe there is a normal way to attach that we're missing.
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[11:03] <fsphil> git.. was going to bit on a camera on ebay but they just withdrew it
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[11:29] <rjharrison> ping RocketBoy|Away
[11:43] <fsphil> woo, it sure was windy up there
[11:44] <fsphil> ah thats a decent video -- explains the wind
[11:46] <fsphil> haha the servo sounds like a scream
[11:48] <russss> what's the least cloudly launch we've had pictures of?
[11:50] <rjharrison> russss this isn't bad http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3576411466/in/set-72157618814637849/
[11:51] <russss> yeah, I get the feeling that there's a fairly substantial lower limit of cloud that you'll ever be able to get around the UK ;)
[11:52] <russss> we should have a UKHAS flickr group
[11:52] <rjharrison> russss I'm waiting for that day :) I think favorable winds and clear skys are a rare combination
[11:52] <russss> ah we do
[11:52] <rjharrison> russss there is one I think. James Coxon set iy up
[11:52] <russss> http://www.flickr.com/groups/highaltitude/
[11:52] <russss> you should submit your pics to there
[11:53] <fsphil> the day that nasa satellite took the picture of the uk covered in snow would have been good
[11:53] <russss> yeah
[11:54] Action: SpeedEvil has abused several gullible americans as to the real state of the ash cloud with that image.
[11:54] <rjharrison> lol
[11:54] <fsphil> lol
[11:58] <rjharrison> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/4609610703/sizes/l/in/set-72157623945344899/
[11:58] <rjharrison> Can anyone work out the coast line there?
[12:00] <russss> it would be awesome if the flight computer logged magnetic compass/accelerometer data (it would need to be quite high-rate), then you could work out which way the photos were pointing
[12:00] <rjharrison> http://www.youtube.com/user/1971rharrison#p/u
[12:00] <fsphil> the horizon is clear, so it wasn't north west
[12:01] <rjharrison> There are a couple more videos here but much of the same thing really
[12:01] <rjharrison> fsphil true
[12:02] <rjharrison> It might be Well-next-the-sea
[12:02] <rjharrison> Wells
[12:03] <sbasuita> russss: i guess teh hard part would be matching the camera shutter time with the gps time
[12:03] <russss> yeah
[12:04] <russss> the real fix is some kind of actual stabilisation system
[12:04] <russss> somehow.
[12:04] <sbasuita> perhaps you could use still use chdk but hack the camera and detect the shutter electronically
[12:05] <russss> you can remotely trigger the shutter over USB.
[12:05] <sbasuita> oh right
[12:05] <sbasuita> that's sorted then
[12:05] <rjharrison> This is what I was doing here
[12:05] <rjharrison> Rotating the camera and then taking pics by pulsing the usb
[12:05] <sbasuita> will have to look at that setup + compass for a2 then
[12:08] <fsphil> pulsing the usb?
[12:08] <rjharrison> CHDK can monitor the USB port and measure the length of a power pulse
[12:08] <fsphil> aaah
[12:08] <rjharrison> so I send 50 ms for 2 mins video
[12:09] <fsphil> that's very smart
[12:09] <rjharrison> and 150 ms for 6 pictures
[12:09] <rjharrison> etc ..
[12:10] <fsphil> is there an easy way to get data out of the camera?
[12:12] <jonsowman> fsphil: like what?
[12:12] <rjharrison> Yep plug the sd card in a comp But you want to do it up there
[12:12] <fsphil> like a low resolution jpeg :)
[12:12] <rjharrison> It's a good point not sure if there is a way to trigger a dload
[12:12] <fsphil> it could do the job of the little serial camera I have
[12:12] <fsphil> only with much better images
[12:13] <rjharrison> Have you considered setting it to a very low mode and attaching to a gumstix
[12:13] <jonsowman> i doubt it
[12:13] <rjharrison> Taking a picture and then deloading ti convert to a better format and fire back to ground
[12:13] <fsphil> ah so do all the image work on the gumstix
[12:13] <jonsowman> you could retrieve the images but it'd be USB proto as if downloading to a computer
[12:14] <jonsowman> but yes you'd need a gumstix or similar
[12:14] <fsphil> yea the avr would struggle handling a proper usb link
[12:14] <jonsowman> even if it could manage that, processing the image would be horrid on an avr
[12:14] <fsphil> almost impossible
[12:15] <jonsowman> can't say I've tried but I imagine it'd be very difficult if not actually impossible
[12:15] <fsphil> well with enough external memory
[12:15] <rjharrison> fsphil http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/USB_Remote_Cable
[12:16] <jonsowman> rjharrison: which chdk flavour did you use?
[12:16] <rjharrison> Oh I use Sterio data maker
[12:16] <jonsowman> right
[12:16] <jonsowman> which camera?
[12:16] <rjharrison> A560
[12:16] <jonsowman> fair enough
[12:16] <jonsowman> popular one that
[12:16] <rjharrison> Going to be sending up a G9 next
[12:16] <jonsowman> nice
[12:17] <rjharrison> A560 tried tested and cheap
[12:17] <jonsowman> exactly
[12:17] <jonsowman> we used the A610 but very similar to be honest
[12:17] <rjharrison> A G9 I may cry if it doesn't come back
[12:17] <jonsowman> haha
[12:17] <jonsowman> i'm sure it will
[12:17] <jonsowman> how close did icarus III land to its predicted spot?
[12:18] <rjharrison> I have only lost one payload out of 12 launches which is not too bad
[12:18] <jonsowman> definitely, that's a very good record
[12:18] <rjharrison> and that was due to power failure at 8k
[12:18] <jonsowman> unfortunate
[12:19] <rjharrison> Moral to that was keep the antenna small. I have a slim jim for rx and it got wound around the tx and pulled the PCB out of the payload disconnecting the battery in the process
[12:19] <fsphil> oooooh they used the LED as a crude serial out
[12:19] <rjharrison> hehe yep
[12:19] <rjharrison> That is funny with a sensor to detect
[12:20] <jonsowman> neat
[12:20] <fsphil> I wonder how reliable that is
[12:20] <jonsowman> hacky but neat
[12:20] <jonsowman> fsphil: you'd be surprised
[12:20] <rjharrison> Not good for 10Kb/s
[12:20] <fsphil> I'd be aiming for 9600 or abouts
[12:21] <rjharrison> I'm thinking more like 10b/s and that may be optomistic
[12:21] <fsphil> though a low less would be fine, considering the downlink is 300 baud
[12:21] <fsphil> low=lot
[12:21] <jonsowman> fsphil: you thinking of processing the image on the camera and then transmit over serial to flight computer?
[12:22] <fsphil> jonsowman, yep!
[12:22] <fsphil> similar to what I did before only with a better camera
[12:23] <jonsowman> fair enough, sounds reasonable
[12:23] <jonsowman> did you use exactly the same setup last time?
[12:24] <fsphil> I used a small serial camera, but from the avr point of view it should be pretty similar
[12:24] <jonsowman> right
[12:24] <jonsowman> what baud?
[12:24] <fsphil> the camera and the avr talked at 9600 baud, the rtty link was 300 baud
[12:24] <jonsowman> nice one
[12:24] <jonsowman> :)
[12:25] <jonsowman> worked well?
[12:25] <fsphil> meh ;-) a few flaws in my code meant the images where incomplete
[12:25] <fsphil> the error correction didn't have the effect it should have, but I think it's fixed now
[12:25] <jonsowman> oh well that's just coding errors, at least it works in principle
[12:25] <jonsowman> what image encoding are you using?
[12:25] <fsphil> http://projectcirrus.wordpress.com/payload/hadie/
[12:26] <jonsowman> thanks :)
[12:26] <fsphil> I'm limited to whatever the camera can deliver, jpeg in this case
[12:26] <jonsowman> hmm yeh
[12:27] <fsphil> most of those images are only missing a single block
[12:27] <jonsowman> very nice though, good work
[12:27] <jonsowman> that's the issue with jpeg
[12:27] <fsphil> yep
[12:27] <jonsowman> what image formats get around that I wonder
[12:27] <jonsowman> bitmaps at a guess
[12:28] <fsphil> A progressive jpeg would work better
[12:28] <fsphil> I think jpeg2000 has a similar feature
[12:28] <jonsowman> fair enough
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> progressive jpeg would not work better
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> a missing block would screw up earlier
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> and you'd get the remaining planes corrupt
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> AIUI
[12:29] <fsphil> yea possibly
[12:30] <fsphil> I think reset markers can be put into a jpeg stream? to help it resume correct decoding?
[12:31] <fsphil> sorry, restart marker
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> I vaguely recall so, I have been conentrating on the coding
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> I have a partially written codec
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> encoder
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[14:42] <MoALTz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulating_retro-reflector this could be nice for high data transfer rates
[14:44] <rjharrison> ping juxta, juxta|console
[14:44] <rjharrison> I have a guy emailing me form OZ re HAB will you have a chat with him?
[14:44] <russss> MoALTz: aiming line-of-sight stuff would be a real problem
[14:45] <juxta|console> hey rjharrison
[14:45] <russss> needs payload stabilisation :)
[14:45] <juxta|console> congrats on the Launch yesterday Rob - I followed from here at work :)
[14:47] <MoALTz> russss: it's a retroreflector. if you have 3 or 4 of them facing out from the payload then it should work. as for the ground station tracking the balloon enough to point the laser correctly i'd imagine it could be done by tracking the telemetry signal from the balloon
[14:47] <russss> I guess so
[14:48] <russss> there's not really any indication of how big these things are
[14:49] <rjharrison> juxta cool
[14:49] <rjharrison> I have just fired you an eamil
[14:49] <rjharrison> ro the bogart address
[14:50] <rjharrison> MoALTz would i get through clouds?
[14:50] <rjharrison> it
[14:50] <juxta|console> cheers rjharrison, will get in touch with him :)
[14:51] <MoALTz> rjharrison: good point... i don't think it would :)
[14:51] <rjharrison> I know oz is a big place but he may be close!
[14:51] <juxta|console> not quite a retro reflector, but our met bureau track their balloons with a narrow beam radar + radar reflector
[14:51] <rjharrison> juxta how is it going anyhow? I see some sponsorship has come your way :)
[14:52] <rjharrison> Any launches comming up?
[14:52] <juxta|console> even if not - there's a project in syd going on at the moment, they might be close to him
[14:52] <juxta|console> rjharrison: hoping to soon. am pretty much finished with renovating and moving etc, just now tying up a few loose ends :)
[14:53] <juxta|console> that's been taking up all my time of late unfortunately
[14:53] <rjharrison> juxta|console I know what thats like
[14:54] <juxta|console> painfully slow!
[14:54] <rjharrison> juxta|console I have posted a few pics and video up
[14:54] <rjharrison> the servo worked well even at very low temperatures
[14:55] <juxta|console> rjharrison: I heard - where are the videos? I saw the excellent pics on the mailing list
[14:57] <rjharrison> juxta|console http://www.youtube.com/user/1971rharrison
[14:58] <juxta|console> I'll have a look now, cheers rjharrison
[15:09] <rjharrison> right DIY beckons
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[16:32] <juxta> rjharrison: if my google-fu is any good then that guy is a local, from Adelaide too
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[17:36] <fsphil> how useful would a radar reflector be at reflecting a 70cm signal -- just wondering if voice communications would be possible between two ground stations, reflecting of a balloon
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> generally not
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> This is pretty much radar
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> you're looking at 1/r^4 losses
[17:41] <SpeedEvil> (in the case where the reflector is small WRT the beamwidths of the antannae.
[17:41] <fsphil> so it would reflect, just very little
[17:42] <sbasuita> G8TMV: hey, could you shed some light on what this means? http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/posterazor/news/20100516T163929Z.html
[17:42] <sbasuita> (my first NEW in debian)
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[17:44] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: yeah. Consider how much of a - say - 1km diameter beam from a 1w yagi a 1m reflector will intercept
[17:45] <sbasuita> G8TMV: i'm guessing it will eventually migrate to stable?
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: so you now effectively have a microwatt transmitter
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[17:45] <fsphil> yea
[17:45] <fsphil> and 1km would be optimistic
[17:46] <sbasuita> G8TMV: actually don't worry i've read up now ;)
[17:50] Action: G8TMV wanders in
[17:50] <G8TMV> sorry I wasn't around
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Global_Gravity_Anomaly_Animation_over_LAND.gif
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> damn that's cool
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[18:33] <jcoxon> evening all
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[18:43] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/4609583899/ - impressive black sky
[18:44] <sbasuita> in our a1 pics we got a completely black frame
[18:44] <jcoxon> have you uploaded that one?
[18:44] <sbasuita> no
[18:45] <jcoxon> hehe did you ever solve the decision of what hosting service to use
[18:45] <sbasuita> :P
[18:45] <sbasuita> we went for flickr
[18:45] <jcoxon> good choice
[18:46] <sbasuita> oh interesting
[18:46] <sbasuita> that total black frame isn't
[18:47] <sbasuita> there's a tiny dot of white
[18:47] <sbasuita> which is probably nothing ;P
[18:47] <jcoxon> hehe
[18:47] <jcoxon> i like looking closely at those images
[18:47] <sbasuita> wow and a red one
[18:47] <sbasuita> mars? :D
[18:47] <russss> probably hot pixels
[18:47] <sbasuita> mmm
[18:49] <sbasuita> well..
[18:49] <sbasuita> there are two white dots and one red
[18:49] <sbasuita> both composed of multiple pixels
[18:49] <jcoxon> one thing about looking at those black images is that it shows how dirty my laptop screen is
[18:49] <DanielRichman> are they 0xFF?
[18:49] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: 4033
[18:49] <jcoxon> sbasuita, post it! or it never happened
[18:49] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I cba getting my external hdd out.
[18:50] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, is the red pixel 0xff0000 and the white ones 0xffffff?
[18:50] <sbasuita> http://ssb.anapnea.net/stuff/a1_black.jpg
[18:50] <sbasuita> (easier to spot the dots if you go fullscreen)
[18:50] <russss> interesting, could be starsa
[18:50] <russss> -a
[18:51] <sbasuita> it would be truly awesome is the red one is mars
[18:51] <sbasuita> but i guess we'll never know
[18:51] <jcoxon> sbasuita, well you could check that mars was overhead that day
[18:51] <russss> sbasuita: it's a bit of a long shot, but... upload it to flickr and submit it to this group http://www.flickr.com/groups/astrometry
[18:51] <russss> it's the most awesome group on flickr
[18:52] <jcoxon> earthshine would be a good person to run it by as well - he does astrometry
[18:52] <russss> it automatically analyzes your image and annotates stars if it recognises them
[18:53] <DanielRichman> there's virtually nothing in that image though
[18:53] <sbasuita> yeah i seriously doubt its worth it
[18:53] <DanielRichman> after flickr resizes it to 1024x768 there will be totally nothing
[18:53] <russss> ah true, you don't have a pro account
[18:53] <DanielRichman> russss, so if I go outside at night, take a picture of the sky, submit, they'll be able to tell me where I live?
[18:53] <russss> yes
[18:54] <russss> actually
[18:54] <russss> I don't know how accurately they can do that
[18:55] <sbasuita> i wonder if they take into account lens distortion
[18:55] <jcoxon> that red dot certainly looks like something rather than an artifact
[18:56] <sbasuita> has nobody tried to take moon photos yet?
[18:56] <jcoxon> yeah i have a moon photo
[18:56] <sbasuita> ooh
[18:56] <sbasuita> linky please
[18:56] <jcoxon> yeah yeah hold your horses
[18:56] <sbasuita> :)
[18:57] <jcoxon> scroll down on my main page: http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk
[18:57] <jcoxon> just trying to find the proper link
[18:58] <sbasuita> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php/peg3flight:moonsmall.jpeg ??
[18:58] <jcoxon> thats the small version though
[18:58] <jcoxon> i'll find a big one somewhere
[19:05] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/sets/72157624072830360/
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[19:10] <sbasuita> cool
[19:15] <jcoxon> interesting squashing of the moon when its seen through the atmosphere
[19:15] <jcoxon> the camera though wasn't great - back in the day before CHDK
[19:22] <edmoore> que?
[19:22] <sbasuita> edmoore: A political scientist at Chulalongkorn University, Vienrat Nethito, said rejection of any ceasefire talk was ominous. "This pretty much guarantees fighting will continue
[19:22] <sbasuita> oops
[19:22] <edmoore> thanks for clearing that up sbasuita
[19:22] <sbasuita> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/sets/72157624072830360/
[19:22] <sbasuita> ;P
[19:23] <jcoxon> edmoore, we were hunting for celestial bodies in hab photos
[19:23] <edmoore> found one
[19:23] <edmoore> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/3730471742/
[19:24] <sbasuita> edmoore: http://ssb.anapnea.net/stuff/a1_black.jpg
[19:24] <sbasuita> edmoore: there are two white dots and a red one :D
[19:25] <edmoore> and what are they?
[19:25] <Randomskk> sensor noise?
[19:26] <sbasuita> they are multiple pixels
[19:26] <sbasuita> no idea really
[19:26] <fsphil> venus would have probably been visible
[19:26] <fsphil> at the time
[19:27] <Randomskk> do they appear in other images?
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[19:28] <sbasuita> yes
[19:28] <sbasuita> i see a white dot
[19:28] <sbasuita> looking for the red one....
[19:29] <sbasuita> yeah there it is
[19:29] <sbasuita> hang on, uploading
[19:29] <fsphil> if you stretch the contrast in the black image, you can see its brighter on the bottom right -- probably the top of the atmosphere
[19:29] <sbasuita> yep
[19:30] <fsphil> when was the image taken?
[19:30] <sbasuita> http://ssb.anapnea.net/stuff/a1_black-2.jpg
[19:31] <sbasuita> fsphil: you can check the exif
[19:31] <sbasuita> bbiab
[19:31] <fsphil> k
[19:35] <fsphil> Sirus or Jupiter would have been in about the right position
[19:36] <fsphil> Mars would have been just a little higher up too
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[19:42] <fsphil> same position in both images -- hot pixel
[19:45] <fsphil> same for the red spot, and the nearby white one
[19:50] <sbasuita> ah you're right
[19:54] <fsphil> venus was directly above at the time
[19:54] <fsphil> that would be an easy target
[19:54] <fsphil> well, except for the balloon and the sun
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[20:23] <_abc_> What is the preferred altitude barometer for your projects? If any?
[20:25] <Randomskk> usually GPS altitude is used
[20:26] <_abc_> So you are not using a manometer at all?
[20:26] <russss> some people have used them
[20:26] <Randomskk> a few people have had various pressure sensors
[20:26] <russss> but as far as I can tell there don't seem to be any which cover the whole range
[20:27] <Randomskk> I think a few have tried flying solid state MEMSy kinda devices, and while I don't know for sure I think a couple have flown larger scale sensors
[20:27] <Randomskk> but by and large, and eespecially recently, GPS has been the most commonly used option
[20:27] <Randomskk> it's easy, and you already have a GPS module, and it's fairly accurate, and it reports altitude not pressure
[20:28] <edmoore> scp1000 has been used as a pressure sensor
[20:28] <_abc_> Why would GPS be used in the first place? To ease recovery?
[20:28] <sbasuita> _abc_: yes
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[20:29] <Randomskk> also it gives you pretty trails in google earth
[20:29] <_abc_> Yes of course.
[20:29] <Randomskk> but yea, it does allow for recovery. we have predictor software that is run on the latest gps position so it updates its predictions of the landing spot during the flight
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[20:38] <earthshine> Hi guys
[20:38] <earthshine> Did Rob launch yesterday?
[20:38] <edmoore> yup
[20:39] <earthshine> did he get a record altitude ?
[20:39] <edmoore> nope
[20:39] <earthshine> darn
[20:39] <edmoore> ukhas 3rd place i think
[20:40] <earthshine> Was it purely an altitude flight or did he get pictures too ?
[20:40] <edmoore> pics too
[20:41] <russss> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/sets/72157623945344899/
[20:41] <edmoore> rob said yesterday, amusingly, something like 'yeah.... hab pics all start to look the same ater a while'
[20:42] <earthshine> these are nice
[20:42] <earthshine> i like the rape fields
[20:42] <edmoore> i like the balloon pics
[20:42] <edmoore> a video of burst would be excellent
[20:42] <edmoore> i think rob is planning to try and catch that
[20:43] <earthshine> nice
[20:45] <edmoore> last time we stuck an upward facing camera on, it ran out of memory before burst. curses! but we got a cool video illustrating just how vicious the jetstream can be to balloons: http://vimeo.com/1598522
[20:49] <earthshine> wow
[20:49] <earthshine> almost tumbling end over end
[20:49] <edmoore> yeah. makes you want to go and re-check your knots doesn't it :) certainly gave me some pause for thought
[20:57] <earthshine> yeah
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[21:03] <fsphil> re: them all looking the same ... good excuse to launch from more exotic locations :)
[21:03] <Randomskk> hehe
[21:03] <Randomskk> a nice tropical sea
[21:03] <Randomskk> or just moar altitude! rockets
[21:04] <_abc_> Has anyone tried to fire a model rocket from a high altitude balloon?
[21:04] <fsphil> how much more height could a rocket get from there?
[21:04] <Randomskk> fsphil: depends on the rocket ;)
[21:04] <fsphil> lol
[21:04] <_abc_> Strikes me as an optimal balloon bursting device ;D
[21:04] <edmoore> _abc_: yes
[21:04] <fsphil> a light weight one
[21:04] <edmoore> fsphil: 70km
[21:04] <Randomskk> annoyingly rockets are not well designed for downwards-facing cameras
[21:04] <edmoore> i.e you can get into space
[21:04] <fsphil> seriously edmoore?
[21:04] <edmoore> yes
[21:04] <Randomskk> edmoore: weren't we shooting for 100km?
[21:04] <edmoore> he asked how much *more* height
[21:04] <edmoore> fsphil: for sure
[21:04] <Randomskk> so he did
[21:04] <edmoore> that's what CUSF are trying to do
[21:04] <fsphil> I thought maybe 50km
[21:05] <edmoore> the reason we got into ballooning is as a stepping stone to 100km
[21:05] <_abc_> 70km to 100km is very respectable. This on one stage?
[21:05] <edmoore> rockoons are the new black
[21:05] <edmoore> yep
[21:05] <_abc_> So probably 2 stages would go up and stay up.
[21:05] <fsphil> what height would be expected from the same rocket launched at sea level?
[21:05] <edmoore> it's very tight on one stage, but we think worth it to save on the complexity
[21:06] <Randomskk> _abc_: staying up is much harder
[21:06] <Randomskk> requires a heck of a lot of horizontal velocity
[21:06] <edmoore> fsphil: about 10km tops
[21:06] <edmoore> assuming the mass distribution was more optimised
[21:06] <_abc_> I am implying the North Korean style of staying up
[21:06] <fsphil> so without the air it gets seven times that
[21:06] <_abc_> "If you can't find it it must be still up"
[21:06] <edmoore> of that order yes
[21:06] <fsphil> that's amazing
[21:06] <edmoore> it's all drag at our end of the cube/square spectrum
[21:06] <fsphil> so when's it launching? need any help? ;-)
[21:07] <_abc_> fsphil: It's not just that operating a rocket engine against vacuum back pressure makes it more efficient
[21:07] <edmoore> well, some of us are working on rockets over the summer in the evenings, as for once we'll just have 9-to-5 jobs :)
[21:07] <edmoore> fsphil: so here are our rough milestones
[21:07] <fsphil> 'just' lol
[21:07] <edmoore> well comapred to degree ;)
[21:08] <_abc_> edmoore: Who is we? Link?
[21:08] <fsphil> of that I cannot speak - but I can imagine
[21:08] <edmoore> _abc_: cambridge university spaceflight
[21:08] <edmoore> cuspaceflight.co.uk
[21:08] <edmoore> flickr.com/cusapceflight
[21:09] <edmoore> fsphil: so we have nearly finished the rockot motor 5DOF static test rig. this is vital as it lets us measure how much of the rockot motor thrust is off-axis, so we can size fins appropriately. in such thin air fins are very challenging
[21:09] <edmoore> we have flown DIY carbon fibre rockets supersonically. so we're more confident about working with carbon fibre
[21:09] <edmoore> we've develped a software gps to work on the rocket which is going hypersonic
[21:10] <edmoore> although that's not in a complete, flight-ready unit yet
[21:10] <edmoore> we haven't yet done much work on the gondola launch-tower
[21:11] <edmoore> badger 2 was designed as a flight computer for the rocket - hence the funny shame and crammed components- http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4362704812/
[21:11] <edmoore> the first air-worthy carbon fibre rocket: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/sets/72157621633883573/
[21:11] <edmoore> so there's still plenty of work to do. and we need to find somewhere to launch it
[21:12] <edmoore> would love to launch 2011 :)
[21:12] <sbasuita> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3742621186/in/set-72157621633883573/ <--- awesome capture
[21:12] <edmoore> iphone special
[21:12] <sbasuita> wow
[21:12] <edmoore> i asked iain to 'look napoleonic'
[21:15] <edmoore> another biggish job: we use off the shelf rocket motors. but they have thick aluminium cases. this is dead weight. so we're making the back end of the carbon rocket the motor case, with a ceramic liner to make it heat-proof. this saves about 500g which is a serious boon. we'll be testing that on the static rig asap
[21:15] <edmoore> hrm, there really is a lot to be done!
[21:15] <_abc_> 5DOF would be 3 axes and torque?
[21:16] <_abc_> Torque on 2 axes?
[21:16] <edmoore> it's axial thrust and radius in 2 places
[21:16] <Randomskk> it doesn't get a degree of freedom down its long axis :P
[21:16] <Randomskk> edmoore: has any progress been made on the datalogger for that?
[21:17] <edmoore> of course not
[21:17] <edmoore> finals!
[21:17] <Randomskk> hehe
[21:17] <Randomskk> only a few weeks left now at least
[21:17] <edmoore> _abc_: http://cuspaceflight.co.uk/testrig.pdf
[21:18] <edmoore> iain made these renderings of the test rig
[21:18] <edmoore> they show the layout
[21:18] <edmoore> it's using that bosch extrustion which is super stuff. you order it at the specific lengths you want and they deliver it cut. so we basically just got a flat-pack kit
[21:24] <_abc_> edmoore: Are you funding this through the university?
[21:24] <edmoore> we get no money from the university
[21:24] <edmoore> it's student-run and privately funded. it's an evenings-and-weekends thing
[21:24] <edmoore> no sponsorship, no flights. which is annoying but such is life :)
[21:26] <rjharrison> hey edmoore
[21:26] <Upu> evening Robert, great pictures
[21:27] <rjharrison> Upu I hope you have some too did you have a good day
[21:27] <rjharrison> the weather was great
[21:27] <edmoore> the help we get from the university is that we have managed to scrounge a disused lab in the basement of the engineering department to work out of. that's quite a useful space. also obviously 'cambridge university spaceflight' in the name makes it easier to persuade people that we're serious than 'some blokes spaceflight', even though the latter is more accurate.
[21:27] <Upu> was fantastic just watching websites now to see if we can fly tommorrow, not looking great
[21:28] <edmoore> _abc_: www.cuspaceflight.co.uk/sponsorship is where we get the money
[21:28] <rjharrison> edmoore I may not be using EARS to launch in the future
[21:28] <edmoore> got a notam ooop north?
[21:28] <_abc_> Thanks edmoore, I have to go now.
[21:29] <edmoore> no probs _abc_
[21:29] <edmoore> rjharrison
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[21:30] <rjharrison> edmoore I'm applying for a NOTAM for here http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=elvington+airfield&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=23.912534,69.038086&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Airfield+Industrial+Estate,+York+Rd,+Elvington,+York,+North+Yorkshire+YO41+4AU,+United+Kingdom&ll=53.923448,-0.991044&spn=0.023149,0.06742&t=h&z=15
[21:30] <edmoore> ah cool
[21:30] <Upu> I'll vote for that
[21:31] <edmoore> so in controlled airspace
[21:31] <rjharrison> Upu thought you might
[21:31] <Upu> :)
[21:31] <rjharrison> No
[21:31] <edmoore> have you been in contact about it?
[21:31] <rjharrison> It's a race track
[21:31] <rjharrison> Yep
[21:31] <edmoore> oh right. whose juristiction is it in?
[21:31] <rjharrison> Spoke to the owner and he's happy
[21:31] <edmoore> no i mean the caa
[21:31] <rjharrison> It not in the commercial flight paths either
[21:31] <rjharrison> I think David will be ok with it
[21:32] <rjharrison> I'll speak with him tomorrow
[21:32] <rjharrison> I'm going to try for a 7 days a week notam but it may get kicked back to weekends
[21:32] <edmoore> have you spoken to him before? I'm surprised you think he'd be ok with it.
[21:33] <rjharrison> Well he suggested this area to me two years ago and they have given a NOTAM to a school in Weatherby which is in a far worse positoon
[21:33] <Upu> don't suppose anyone wants to lend me some balloons so I can go on my honeymoon ? :)
[21:33] <rjharrison> position
[21:33] <edmoore> last time I spoke to him about three days ago he was being stressed by ash clouds and other reasons why he hadn't re-issued our notam. we have since got it re-issued though.
[21:34] <rjharrison> Upu hehe it's not looking good today
[21:34] <Upu> nope it's not, suppose to be an update from NATS at 10pm, really annoying because we have to be up at 5am if we are flying and I'd really like to know before I go to bed
[21:34] <edmoore> we're after another launch site south of Bicester, but he's not making any promises about it.
[21:35] <edmoore> although it's in a pretty dire location
[21:35] <edmoore> from an air traffic pov
[21:35] <Upu> Your house a bit too close to LBA I take it Robert ?
[21:35] <rjharrison> And Manchester
[21:35] <Upu> yeah true
[21:36] <Upu> also you really don't want to be recovering stuff from Moss Side
[21:36] <edmoore> basically my advice with him would be to tread lightly but tread persistently. I had to try several times to get stuff re-issued, being ever so polite each time.
[21:36] <rjharrison> PM
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[22:43] <Laurenceb> hello
[22:44] Action: Laurenceb wonders where one could obtain very fast sample rate wind data
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[22:45] <Laurenceb> http://gb.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=L3G4200 <- lead time 40 weeks
[22:45] <Laurenceb> guess its invensense for the time being
[22:45] <russss> heh
[22:47] <Laurenceb> not a bad price, but invensense is cheaper - $10
[22:48] <Laurenceb> st has lower temperature drift, but other than that the two are very similar
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[22:51] <Laurenceb> http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/arc/cp/0873.pdf
[22:51] <Laurenceb> looks useful
[22:52] Action: Laurenceb is trying to work out how often you need to sample a pitot tube
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[00:00] --- Mon May 17 2010