highaltitude.log.20100512

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[08:57] <rharrison_> Moring all
[08:57] <rharrison_> Morning
[08:57] <rharrison_> I'm hoping to launch on Saturday
[08:58] <rharrison_> jonsowman, you're launching Friday ?
[09:54] <SpeedEvil> rharrison_: Good luck!
[09:54] <rharrison_> Hey thanks
[09:54] <rharrison_> Just about to go and interview someone for a job at work bbiab
[10:43] <jonsowman> rharrison_: nope! where did you hear that?
[10:54] <rharrison_> jonsowman, opps I ment john underwood
[10:54] <jonsowman> oh tight ok
[10:54] <jonsowman> right
[10:54] <jonsowman> makes more sense, was confused
[10:54] <jonsowman> :)
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[12:25] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: ping
[12:38] <Randomskk> hi
[12:39] <Randomskk> on phone,what's up?
[12:39] <Laurenceb> hey - the seeedstudio silkscenn
[12:39] <Laurenceb> *screen
[12:39] <Laurenceb> what size text and stuff have you sucessfully used?
[12:40] <Randomskk> 8 mil lines, text was a bit weirder, so long as their actual lines are 6 or more should e okay
[12:41] <Laurenceb> I see
[12:41] <Laurenceb> IIRC batchpcb alter text sizes
[12:41] <Randomskk> basically nothing too small
[12:41] <Laurenceb> I dont quite get how... though it was all vectors
[12:41] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:42] <Laurenceb> I'll probably increase the size a bit... did you notice anything odd happening to your text?
[12:42] <Randomskk> don't recall them doing that but their silk_gen ulp makes big-enough text
[12:43] <Laurenceb> ah I see
[12:43] <Randomskk> it either didn't appear at all or was fine on seeed
[12:44] <Laurenceb> sik_gen.ulp - the one that comes with eagle?
[12:44] <Randomskk> it is easy to forget how small things are when Oomeed in on eagle, best to make text as big as possible
[12:44] <Laurenceb> yeah but it has to fit
[12:45] <Laurenceb> thanks for the info
[12:46] <Randomskk> yea i think it does, it twill turn text into lines
[12:47] <Laurenceb> ah it gives me warnings about it being too small
[12:47] Action: Laurenceb wondering if there is a ulp for upping text size
[12:48] <Laurenceb> until it has ok feature sizes
[12:48] <Randomskk> it ssgould work despite warning
[12:49] <Laurenceb> oh.. well the text is pretty small
[12:49] <Laurenceb> 16mil high text is the smallest
[12:50] <Laurenceb> I guess if the smallest line is 6mil that would always be just legible
[12:51] <Laurenceb> also 6mil is the limit for pcb lines and text can be a bit screwed up and still ok
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[15:16] <juxta|console> edmoore: that's a while ago - any idea what jcoxon's been upto?
[15:16] <edmoore> I think he has his exams
[15:16] <juxta|console> ah right, that would make sense
[15:17] <edmoore> might drop him a text
[15:18] <juxta|console> are you done with yours ed?
[15:18] <edmoore> yep, finished on friday
[15:18] <juxta|console> oh great, all went OK i'm sure? :)
[15:18] <edmoore> am now fighting with LaTeX to write up my project
[15:19] <juxta|console> haha
[15:19] <edmoore> god knows. Had a few shockers
[15:19] <Randomskk> hehe LaTeX
[15:19] <Randomskk> I've taken to doing all my lab reports in it, the markers are surprised every time
[15:19] <edmoore> ironically the easier courses had had exams and the horrendous courses had pretty easy exams
[15:19] <edmoore> if you *didn't* use latex, our markers would probably keel over in shock and horror
[15:19] <juxta|console> haha
[15:19] <Randomskk> for your thesis I can imagine so
[15:20] <juxta|console> latex is very much non-standard here
[15:20] <edmoore> but I'm trying to make a title page in my own format, and it's a recipe for disaster if you try and make latex try and do something it doesn't naturally want to do
[15:20] <edmoore> .sty files are not as easy to edit as they should be, I think
[15:20] <edmoore> oh well, of all the things that I could complain about in my life
[15:21] <juxta|console> be glad you're not moving & renovating, that really sucks :)
[15:21] <Randomskk> latex is very much easier if you just go with what it wants you to do, for sure
[15:21] <edmoore> yes. it's sort of axiomatic for layout
[15:22] <edmoore> and in the same way you after to be a fields-medla mathmo to go after the axioms, you have to be a fields-prize-level idiot to start messing with latex
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[15:41] <rharrison_> Hi guys
[15:42] <rharrison_> Any chance of changing the pred to 40k
[15:42] <rharrison_> 5up 5 down
[15:42] <rharrison_> I feel a launch coming on for this w/e
[15:43] <rharrison_> Randomskk, this is probably one for you
[15:44] <rharrison_> Given edmoore is playing with latex. Far more fun at night than playing with it during the day
[15:45] <Randomskk> done
[15:46] <Randomskk> every time, I feel more and more compelled to renew work on a website that does hourly predictions per user and lets you enter your own templates
[15:51] <rharrison_> I keep thinking I should svn the code and set up my own here so I can play to my hearts content
[15:51] <rharrison_> But like you I never seem to get arround to it :)
[15:51] <rharrison_> I think the hourly pred is in svn
[15:51] <rharrison_> Randomskk, thanks
[15:56] <edmoore> tis difficult when the guy developing it has *actual* research to do as a day job
[15:57] <Randomskk> what he's already done should be enough for me to get playing with making a nice web interface for multiple users though
[15:57] <edmoore> he was part way thorugh some session system based on couchDB
[15:57] <edmoore> might be worth pinging to see how far that's got
[16:14] <rharrison_> I have been doing a bit of out reach up here. Got about 10 local schools interested and one launched
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[16:15] <rharrison_> I'm hoping to set up a NOTAM for Up North soon using Weatherby racecourse as a launch site.
[16:20] <rharrison_> juxta, hows life downunder
[16:20] <rharrison_> any launches planned?
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[16:38] <sbasuita> just releasing the source so we could run local sims would be great
[16:39] <edmoore> it is all released
[16:39] <edmoore> always has been
[16:39] <edmoore> hence spacenear.us now having landing prediction
[16:39] <sbasuita> oh right
[16:39] <sbasuita> link?
[16:40] <sbasuita> does that include the hourly scripts with the gmaps etc?
[16:40] <edmoore> http://github.com/rjw57/cusf-landing-prediction
[16:40] <edmoore> yes
[16:40] <sbasuita> ooo thanks
[16:40] <edmoore> that's the most recent publicly available version
[16:41] <edmoore> if we haven't released the latest stuff it's only because someone hasn't committed yet, or we sort of choose not to for some of the things, like the GPS
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[16:42] <Randomskk> edmoore: what's the status on our notam?
[16:43] <DanielRichman> hmm when It said "28pin DIL socket, narrow7.62mm, with central support" I didn't notice the prefix "Tube of 17"... Instead of 4 atmega168 sockets I now have 68. Great success!
[16:43] <edmoore> the roster seems to have it
[16:43] <edmoore> but i don't have a document yet
[16:43] <edmoore> i phoned him at about 2.30, got some excuses about ash clouds, but he said he'll try and get it generated this afternoon
[16:43] <Randomskk> cool, okay
[16:45] <edmoore> as for the oxfordshire notam we're after, not sure yet
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[16:45] <edmoore> he's going to look into it, but he told me that in Jan
[16:46] <edmoore> and again today
[16:53] <stilldavid> DanielRichman, guess what worked :)
[16:53] <DanielRichman> stilldavid, :i
[16:53] <DanielRichman> stilldavid, ** :o
[16:53] <DanielRichman> stilldavid, ok so adding a second stop bit meant it didn't die after 32 characters?
[16:53] <stilldavid> yup. printed 100+ chars with no errors
[16:54] <DanielRichman> stilldavid, SpeedEvil ^^
[16:54] <SpeedEvil> fun
[16:54] <DanielRichman> fldigi gah
[16:54] <DanielRichman> stilldavid, so now you have a pretty good idea of what the problem is; the timing is slightly off
[16:55] <stilldavid> I'll see if I can tweak it a little bit in either direction
[16:55] <DanielRichman> yeah you could reduce it back to one stop bit and tweak it
[16:55] <stilldavid> it makes sense, I guess... my loop might take a bit longer/shorter to run than the loop I so graciously borrowed the code from
[16:56] <stilldavid> I might bring it in to work and drop it on an o-scope
[16:56] <stilldavid> see how much off of the 20ms loop it is
[16:57] <stilldavid> at any rate, thanks a million!
[16:57] <SpeedEvil> stilldavid: scope is overkill
[16:57] <SpeedEvil> stilldavid: soundcard works fine
[16:57] <SpeedEvil> http://xoscope.sourceforge.net/hardware/hardware.html
[16:57] <SpeedEvil> or direct even
[16:58] <stilldavid> what does this analyze?
[16:59] <stilldavid> er, look at, or whatever... voltages on the soundcard input?
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> yes
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> it's plenty for serial edge analysis
[17:01] <stilldavid> very cool.
[17:05] <stilldavid> oh, this is so cool.
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[17:29] <rharrison> .
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[17:43] <rharrison> ping DanielRichman
[17:44] <rharrison> How many people in your year could code a uC
[17:45] <rharrison> I have been sent a request from some 14 year olds in portsmouth to do a HAB experiment. They are apparently gifted and talented and part of some program
[17:46] <DanielRichman> rharrison, with or without training? You mean if I picked them right now ?
[17:46] <rharrison> Yep
[17:46] <DanielRichman> hmm sbasuita
[17:46] <rharrison> Ie like you :)_
[17:46] <DanielRichman> (sb: what do you think?)
[17:46] <rharrison> Could you do this stuff a year ago?
[17:46] <DanielRichman> yes
[17:47] <edmoore> we programmed pics in year 9 DT. shouldn't be too much of a problem rharrison
[17:47] <edmoore> was just part of the syllabus
[17:47] <rharrison> 2 years ago
[17:47] <rharrison> lol
[17:47] <DanielRichman> rharrison, you should be fine
[17:47] <rharrison> not from what I can remember. Cool DT has PIC programming as part of the course
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[17:48] <rharrison> Hey when I was young !!!
[17:48] <DanielRichman> ours didn't; though in ICT we did some "flowchart" stuff
[17:48] <DanielRichman> Logicator eugh
[17:48] Action: rharrison wonders which school edmoore when to
[17:48] <rharrison> o
[17:49] <edmoore> cranleigh
[17:49] <DanielRichman> rharrison, have you been asked by a group of 14 year olds or asked through their school; ie. will it be a school project?
[17:49] <DanielRichman> also how large is the group?
[17:49] <rharrison> Humm well I'm going to have a conf. call with the team down there tomorrow. About 5 i believe
[17:49] <edmoore> that's a good number!
[17:49] <edmoore> totally different kettle of fish to an entire class or club
[17:50] <DanielRichman> yeah sounds good
[17:50] <rharrison> No the kid contacted directly. Had email from teacher today but apparently the kids are expected to get on with stuff on their own
[17:50] <edmoore> initiative points
[17:51] <rharrison> Hence why they are gifted and talented
[17:52] <edmoore> sounds like it should be a pretty easy starter then if you want to get into schools stuff
[17:52] <edmoore> right, time to cook
[17:52] Nick change: edmoore -> edmoore|away
[17:52] <rharrison> Yep I like the word easy
[17:52] <rharrison> I have about 15 schools who have contacted me so far
[17:54] <DanielRichman> :o
[18:02] <rharrison> DanielRichman, i'm using you guys as an example of what motivated people can do. Hope thats ok
[18:02] <DanielRichman> rharrison, go ahead :)
[18:02] <DanielRichman> though I think motivated is a bit strong.
[18:03] <rharrison> I'm hoping we're going to see some more action from the alien team this year
[18:03] <rharrison> Summer hols should be fun
[18:03] <DanielRichman> definitely. Alex just needs to get me my free NiM2
[18:04] <DanielRichman> or even a non free one, I don't mind. Just radiometrix are being slow
[18:10] <sbasuita> rharrison: you are an awful way away from portsmouth ;)
[18:10] <rharrison> Oh yep, but then you guys didn't have much real life contact with anyone here
[18:10] <rharrison> So I'm thinking perhaps they could do it
[18:10] <sbasuita> yeah they should be fine
[18:11] <rharrison> then if so get together for a launch in the uk
[18:11] <sbasuita> how hard is it to get a permanent notam
[18:11] <sbasuita> ?
[18:11] <sbasuita> we're thinking school field
[18:12] <rharrison> Should be fine but you're going to be on the aproach to Heathrow
[18:13] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, not practical me thinks
[18:13] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: get g4rsc involved
[18:13] <rharrison> Camb is good for a few reasons. It happens to have no flight paths between camb and norwich
[18:13] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, there's no point
[18:14] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, we'll be gone in a few years anyway and HABbage isn't exactly common
[18:14] <rharrison> You'll be doing something more exciting by then and possibly at Camb any how :)
[18:14] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, ie no benefit for school
[18:15] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, limited benefit for us
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[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> ho
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[19:23] Nick change: edmoore|away -> edmoore
[19:23] <edmoore> rharrison: hi
[19:23] <edmoore> sorry phone and I were separate
[19:23] <edmoore> as a rule, I resent mobile phones and generally don't have mine on me if I can help it
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[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> hi edmoore Hiena chembrow
[20:21] <edmoore> greetings Lunar_Lander
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[20:22] <chembrow> evening Lunar_Lander
[20:22] <edmoore> not bad, exams are over and things are pretty good
[20:22] <edmoore> you?
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> mine's ok too
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> today was another milestone question
[20:23] <edmoore> what's that?
[20:24] <edmoore> :e ~/.vimrc
[20:24] <edmoore> oh poo sticks wrong window sorry
[20:24] <chembrow> :)
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> well, uni has a seven story building
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> today I wrote the man who is responsible for building operations if I could test the parachute and sensor package on it
[20:28] <DanielRichman> If I want to test something at low temperatures (I'm not fussed about accuracy), will insulation + into the freezer do or is there something I should know before I put a flight computer in there
[20:28] <edmoore> hrm, it should be ok, but remember 2 things
[20:28] <edmoore> 1) humidity
[20:28] <edmoore> 2) pressure
[20:29] <edmoore> 2 is probably more important, i.e. if it's for a balloon, it could still overheat in a flight due to the lack of convective cooling that you had in the freezer that was the same external temperature
[20:29] <DanielRichman> the issues being condensation and explosions of rigid sealed items?
[20:30] <DanielRichman> hmm ok. It did get quite toasty in alien1; up to 40'C inside
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> but is that building good for parachute tests?
[20:32] <edmoore> if it's tall enough yep
[20:32] <edmoore> it should get to eqilibrium easily enough
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> and as for the sensors
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> I wanted to put the package on the roof for a weekend
[20:35] <edmoore> that'd be a good soak test
[20:36] <edmoore> test sensors, radio, let it completely run through a set of batteries
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:36] <edmoore> it's good to test that the system is ok if the batteries get completely depleted, i.e. they don't burst into flames, or your sd card file system doesn't corrupt, or something
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah true
[20:37] <edmoore> if you can telemetry the battery voltage, that's *really* useful too
[20:41] Nick change: Branche -> smealum
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> that one is recorded
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[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> once you discussed a pressure sensor by Honeywell here
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> one that goes down to 0 mbar
[20:47] <DanielRichman> telemetry battery voltage: potential-divide until in range of ADC is suitable method?
[20:47] <chembrow> I've used the motorola mpx4115 which goes down to 15
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:49] <chembrow> not sure how that relates to altitude though
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> trying to calculate that
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=solve%2815%3D1000*e^%28%280.029*9.81*h%29%2F%288.314*250%29%29%29&a=*C.e-_*NamedConstant.dflt-&a=*C.h-_*Variable-&a=UnitClash_*h.*Hours.dflt--
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[21:27] <earthshine> evening
[21:28] <fsphil> howdy earthshine
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil and earthshine
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[21:46] <fsphil> hullo Lunar_Lander
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[21:47] <earthshine> what's new guys ?
[21:48] <fsphil> not too much here - I'm wiring up some breadboard stuff, going to see if the wee serial camera survived its flight and fall
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> earthshine: rharrison is thinking of a launch this weekend
[21:49] <earthshine> Good news
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[21:53] <DanielRichman> fsphil, which serial camera did you use and where did you get it from?
[21:53] <fsphil> DanielRichman, C328 from sparkfun
[21:54] <DanielRichman> ok
[21:54] <fsphil> very tiny and light
[21:54] <fsphil> passable image quality for the live image stuff, but I wouldn't use it for proper imaging
[21:55] <fsphil> What's the camera people use here with the customisable firmware?
[21:55] <DanielRichman> chdk (canon)
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[21:57] <fsphil> thanks
[21:57] <fsphil> heh, my mum's got a compatible model but I don't think she'd appreciate me hacking it. ebay here I come
[21:59] <DanielRichman> iirc a560 is what we used; rharrison too.
[22:00] <fsphil> other than the firmware, did you do any other mods?
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[22:02] <DanielRichman> no physical mods. You pop CHDK files onto the SD card, put the "LOCK" slider down (causes the camera to load the firmware; the firmware then goes to override the lock switch to enable RW) then you can select and run a basic script stored on the card using CHDK's menus
[22:02] <DanielRichman> it's a bit overkill and sometimes buggy fsphil
[22:02] <DanielRichman> but it's much easier than soldering
[22:03] <fsphil> it's certainly more elegant
[22:03] <fsphil> buggy in what way? locks up?
[22:07] <DanielRichman> well not buggy
[22:07] <DanielRichman> just a total pain to use
[22:07] <DanielRichman> luckily there are people who have gone before. If you choose the a560 either me or rjh can (in theory) have you set up in ~10 mins. (that's a big theory; and a theory for a reason)
[22:08] <DanielRichman> fsphil, it's a bit messy. There are a billion poorly documented forks especially of the basic; you don't know if the example forum script you read is meant for either one or if that function will behave on that camera
[22:08] <DanielRichman> we know the a560 is fine.
[22:19] <fsphil> yea I'll probably go for that
[22:19] <fsphil> it's a nice size too
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[22:29] <rjharrison> evening all
[22:29] <rjharrison> Hey natrium42 I'm going to be popping one up this w/e
[22:29] <natrium42> oh, cool
[22:30] <natrium42> icarus iii?
[22:30] <rjharrison> This is going to be a bit of an alt attempt as that 3kg needs to go
[22:30] <rjharrison> Yep possibly depending on how much work I can get done on it
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[23:02] <rjharrison> natrium42 It looks like icarus III will be going up
[23:02] <rjharrison> 1/2 commercial 1/2 fun
[23:02] <natrium42> \o/
[23:14] <stilldavid> edmoore, you mentioned that sending battery voltage down as telemetry data is helpful
[23:14] <stilldavid> can I ask why? just to debug erroneous readings, or what other action can you take if the battery level drops?
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> It's handy to know that the device has plenty of battery - so you can tell how long it might transmit on the ground
[23:16] <stilldavid> ah, okay. I was wondering if you'd cut down if the batt dropped below a threshold or something
[23:20] <rjharrison> stilldavid, batteries have been very well behaved to date. You are not likely to run low during the flight assuming up and down. But as SpeedEvil suggests it's helpfull to know if it's on the way down how long it could/should tx for
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[00:00] --- Thu May 13 2010