highaltitude.log.20100428

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[07:49] <rjharrison> morning all
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[08:08] <earthshine> morning
[08:15] <hapt1K> http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/dontdisconnectus/
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[08:40] <rjharrison> exit
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[08:41] <earthshine> ?
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[11:26] <jonsowman> names
[11:26] <jonsowman> oops
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[11:42] <Randomskk> you can just /n
[11:43] <jonsowman> mm i know
[11:43] <jonsowman> the lack of / was more "oop"
[11:43] <jonsowman> *oops
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[11:50] Action: SpeedEvil realised that he must be an adult now.
[11:50] <SpeedEvil> Instead of - on recieving strawberry jelly cubes - eating them.
[11:50] <SpeedEvil> I used them to make a gel weedkiller.
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[13:30] <earthshine> Interesting idea - how does that work then?
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[13:59] <haptlK> that sounds less fun than say... petrol + matches.
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> strawberry jelly + orange poster paint + glyphosate
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> make up to a thick gel, and apply with brush
[14:04] <Randomskk> so today my digital & microprocessors lecturer told all 350 first year engineers that ASCII stands for american standard for information exchange
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> he's doing a java based course then?
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> No C?
[14:05] <Randomskk> if only
[14:05] <Randomskk> he's teaching us ASM, VHDL and combinational and sequential logic
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I was responding to the missing C in the above
[14:06] <Randomskk> haha ah
[14:06] <Randomskk> :P indeed, no C in his course
[14:07] <Randomskk> after someone pointed out that it's actually interchange he told them that they were a bit sad for knowing what ASCII stands for
[14:07] <Randomskk> no one dared correct the 'code' bit after that
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> Though I admit I thought it was computer, not code
[14:09] <Randomskk> he actually said "knowing what ASCII stands for is a bit sad" after being corrected
[14:10] <jonsowman> what an idiot.
[14:13] <Randomskk> timing diagram mistake was also unfortunate
[15:06] <juxta> I tangled 6 x ~80m cat5e runs today trying to pull them through conduit & spent half the day untanlging the giant mess I made
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[16:48] <DanielRichman> weird.
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[17:01] <DanielRichman> rharrison, hi!
[17:01] <rharrison> Hi DanielRichman got a text from sbasuita
[17:01] <sbasuita> \o
[17:02] <rharrison> You up 4 launch this w/e?
[17:02] <sbasuita> yes
[17:02] <DanielRichman> rharrison, the CUSF guys are nose deep in revision, which is fair enough, so a launch there would be very difficult to pull of since we'd need to drag someone with helium access & skills and a notam'd person out
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[17:03] <DanielRichman> but we heard you were launching from EARS this weekend, (right)?
[17:03] <rharrison> The weather looked like it was going to be foul
[17:03] <sbasuita> forecast is partly sunny
[17:03] <DanielRichman> sooooo.... we were wondering how feasible this is: do they have blanket permission there/what about helium there?
[17:03] <russss> forecast has got a bit better now.
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[17:04] <rharrison> DanielRichman, I'm thinking of being there with the kids as there is a rocketry event on
[17:04] <sbasuita> although the predictions have pushed out to sea a bit :\
[17:04] <rharrison> I was thinking the weekend was going to be a washout
[17:05] <sbasuita> damn the predictor has put the planned launch on the coast now
[17:05] <DanielRichman> rharrison, did/do you intend to launch a balloon
[17:05] <sbasuita> yesterday it was quite nice
[17:05] <rharrison> But if there is sun then I'll come down. We'll need to have a chat with steve regarding launch but I can't see it being a problem subject to wx
[17:05] <rharrison> DanielRichman, yes if wx is ok
[17:06] <sbasuita> the only issue is that our helium supply was cusf
[17:06] <DanielRichman> what freq?
[17:06] <rharrison> 434.075 :)
[17:06] <rharrison> But i'm not that fussed
[17:06] <rharrison> Ie happy to wait if your on that freq
[17:07] <rharrison> you're
[17:07] <DanielRichman> indeed simultaneous launch is not possible
[17:07] <rharrison> Well to be honest the chance of your signals over laping mine are minimal.
[17:08] <rharrison> And then you get the shift due to temp
[17:08] <DanielRichman> so they might smash into each other mid flight
[17:09] <rharrison> Yep you might lose a bit of data. I have a 434.650 tx too so I could change
[17:09] <rharrison> 5mins and an iron
[17:09] <rharrison> I think wx is the big issue for me what's the forecast like?
[17:09] <sbasuita> rharrison: at the moment quite poor
[17:09] <sbasuita> rharrison: along the coast
[17:10] <rharrison> And on the ground
[17:10] <sbasuita> ground conditions are partly cloudy
[17:10] <DanielRichman> the balloon predictions were beautiful yesterday (for sunday)
[17:10] <DanielRichman> where is EARS?
[17:10] <rharrison> They look pretty good to me
[17:10] <rharrison> That's on slow ascent and 35k
[17:10] <DanielRichman> yes
[17:11] <DanielRichman> we may go for 30k
[17:11] <rharrison> 10 mins closer than uni for you
[17:11] <DanielRichman> west of churchill?
[17:11] <rharrison> You won't get 35 unless you pull one out of the bag
[17:11] <rharrison> Yep
[17:12] <DanielRichman> ok we can mess around busting the alt record later
[17:13] <sbasuita> what about helium?
[17:13] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, shall we (ask to) change predictions to a more realistic; shorter flight (so further inland) 30k?
[17:13] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: can do that for you
[17:13] <AlexBreton> DanielRichman: sounds like an idea
[17:14] <AlexBreton> DanielRichman: sbasuita risky predictions
[17:14] <AlexBreton> on the coast
[17:14] <sbasuita> yeah
[17:14] <AlexBreton> sbasuita: 30k burst?
[17:14] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, our payload was 600g right?
[17:15] <rharrison> But they are not realistic esp if you aim for 30 - 31 k
[17:15] <AlexBreton> DanielRichman: weigh it
[17:15] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, i weighed it before
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[17:15] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, has it in his epeen logs
[17:15] <AlexBreton> DanielRichman: well then why are you asking us lol
[17:15] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton, because he needs to grep
[17:15] <DanielRichman> I think was 600g
[17:15] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, stand by
[17:15] <sbasuita> yean its 600
[17:15] <DanielRichman> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/ claims for 600g/1200g 35k burst is
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[17:16] <DanielRichman> actually 5.14m/s ascent
[17:16] <DanielRichman> which will change predictions to start with
[17:16] <DanielRichman> 35000 is 8m/s ascent; 1hr flight compared to 1:40
[17:17] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, what do /
[17:18] <rharrison> We can sort out helium on the day. You may have to pay a bit towards it say 30 quid. I'm not getting it free yet or we could pick some up from camb and put it back when done if ed is up for that
[17:19] <sbasuita> i guess picking it up from cam would be best
[17:19] <rharrison> It's a bit early to call sunday ATM I think you should leave it till Friday afternoon
[17:20] <sbasuita> ok
[17:20] <rharrison> I'll collect it from ed and put it back for free quite happily
[17:20] <rharrison> Basically if there is a chance of dry wx on the ground and a launch window then I say go for it
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[17:21] <rharrison> the 23knot wind for sunday is not filling me with confidence at the moment
[17:22] <rharrison> Right time for home
[17:22] <AlexBreton> rharrison: I'll have a look at altitude wind predictions on ecmwf
[17:22] <rharrison> Ok cool
[17:22] <rharrison> There are rockets at EARS this w/e which should be fun
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[17:23] <sbasuita> i think the hourly-predictions scenario is wrong atm?
[17:24] <jonsowman> sbasuita: what are you looking for
[17:24] <jonsowman> i've changed it to 30k burst
[17:24] <jonsowman> you might want to look at a slightly higher ascent rate
[17:24] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, ed came up with the ascent and descent figures; I don't know how
[17:25] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: use the burst calc
[17:25] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/ ?
[17:25] <sbasuita> yeah i'm thinking 33km 6.5m/s
[17:25] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: yes
[17:25] <DanielRichman> is 33km practically reachable? rjh implied that even if we fill to what the calc says will be 35k we won't make it
[17:26] <sbasuita> hmm ok lets just go for 30km at 8.05m/s
[17:26] <sbasuita> thats 62min burst
[17:27] <jonsowman> 8.05m/s! bit quick maybe?
[17:27] <DanielRichman> yeah
[17:27] <sbasuita> still an hour of photos up
[17:28] <DanielRichman> I like 33k & 6.5m/s up
[17:28] <sbasuita> need to get this thing in the air
[17:28] <DanielRichman> that's 85 mins
[17:28] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: shall i put that in the predictor and you can see how it looks?
[17:28] <AlexBreton> ya
[17:28] <DanielRichman> please do
[17:29] <jonsowman> ok wait a couple of mins
[17:29] <jonsowman> running the predictor on the new json
[17:30] <DanielRichman> I thought that messed it up bad if you tried to force it :P)
[17:30] <sbasuita> oh well too late now
[17:30] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: i know
[17:30] <sbasuita> might as well try a few scenarios ;P
[17:30] <AlexBreton> sbasuita: have you emailed BARC and RADARC
[17:31] <sbasuita> AlexBreton: dan is going to email the guy he knows at radarc
[17:31] <jonsowman> don't want to keep changing it but can get away with it a couple of times
[17:31] <AlexBreton> sbasuita: email BARC
[17:31] <DanielRichman> what why me?
[17:31] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: since you speak to the hogg dude every tuesday
[17:32] <sbasuita> ooh 6.5 looks nice
[17:32] <DanielRichman> I'll call him that; "dear hogg dude"
[17:32] <AlexBreton> LOL
[17:32] <AlexBreton> DanielRichman: sbasuita please delegate within yourselves who is responsible for emailing the hogg dude
[17:33] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, you email him
[17:33] <AlexBreton> DanielRichman: sbasuita won't get it done
[17:33] <DanielRichman> yes he will; he's going to do it now
[17:34] <AlexBreton> sbasuita: you heard him ^
[17:34] <AlexBreton> sbasuita: email BARC and RADARC
[17:35] <jonsowman> guys do you want the launch site to be EARS?
[17:35] <DanielRichman> yes please
[17:35] <AlexBreton> go for it
[17:35] <jonsowman> ok give me a min
[17:36] <jonsowman> running...
[17:39] <DanielRichman> has it run?
[17:40] <jonsowman> yes
[17:40] <jonsowman> but it's a bit weird
[17:40] <jonsowman> i'm trying to work out what time cron runs it
[17:40] <jonsowman> clashing with cron causes death
[17:40] <DanielRichman> :D
[17:41] <jonsowman> unfortunately it runs under another user's cron
[17:41] <jonsowman> so I can't read their crontab
[17:41] <DanielRichman> any access dates available?
[17:41] <DanielRichman> either it's just me or this looks broken http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/#
[17:41] <jonsowman> yes it does a bit
[17:41] <jonsowman> just trying to work out why
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[17:55] <jonsowman> hmm cannot work this out
[17:55] <jonsowman> sorry guys, will fix asap
[17:55] <AlexBreton> np
[17:56] <AlexBreton> we just hope the wind doesn't pick up
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[17:56] <jonsowman> yeh hopefully will be ok
[18:00] <jonsowman> bbl, have sent email regarding fixing the predictor if it breaks
[18:00] <jonsowman> will be working again soon with any luck
[18:05] <DanielRichman> I've got a http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/EvaluationKits/UB232R.htm here; if I want to use a 9v batt instead of the 5v provided from the USB I just connect the ground of the ub232r to the battery ground; then use the data signals normally; right? Is it then safe/OK to unplug/plug in the USB during use?
[18:18] <SpeedEvil> I don't think those have a regulator
[18:18] <SpeedEvil> You will need a 5V regulator
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[18:44] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, predictor looks like it's recovered :P
[18:44] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, predictions r tastey
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[18:52] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: YUP
[18:52] <jonsowman> oops caps
[18:53] <DanielRichman> :)
[18:54] <jonsowman> anyway you've got a reasonable prediction there
[18:54] <jonsowman> pretty good flight path
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[19:33] <FutFutFut> rjharrison: Hi Rob, Are you still on for a launch this weekend?
[19:35] <FutFutFut> FutFutFut=Futurity
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[22:11] <stilldavid> anyone have experience with alerting the FAA about a launch here in the US?
[22:11] <stilldavid> sending out a NOTAM, etc...
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> umm - I think htere was someonme in the US here that's done launches
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure if they are awake at teh moment
[22:12] <stilldavid> I haven't had much luck calling around the local airport
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[22:13] <fsphil> have you tried contacting the FAA directly?
[22:18] <stilldavid> fsphil, no, I haven't found a good number to call
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> how heavy is this balloon?
[22:18] <stilldavid> <5 lbs
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> I came across some references to under 12lb being exempt
[22:20] <stilldavid> yeah, I've read the same; no more than 2 6lb payloads attached with line that breaks at 50lbs, etc...
[22:20] <stilldavid> but it would still be nice to tell someone in person, y'know?
[22:20] <earthshine> evening
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[22:50] <junderwood> stilldavid, try contacting WB8ELK (http://home.hiwaay.net/~bbrown/)
[22:50] <junderwood> based in AL
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[22:51] <kosztyua> hi
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[22:52] <kosztyua> i was wondering if there is someone who could help a newb with a few things
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[22:54] <kosztyua> well, not going to wait here, ill just ask and maybe later some1 answers :) ..
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[22:55] <kosztyua> i'm looking for receiver, at a low budget. i saw a nice list on http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide but unfortunately i was unable to locate these in my home country (hungary)... so if its possible please list some more budget category of these and a homepage where i could find second hand things of these
[22:59] <fsphil> any amature radio clubs nearby kosztyua?
[23:00] <kosztyua> a few, tried contacting them online with luck, but nobody to sell... a week ago there was a yaesu 790r for sale but i was late :/
[23:00] <N900evil> ebay
[23:00] <N900evil> or that
[23:02] <kosztyua> on ebay it's a pain to find things if dont know the exact name, thats why my other question what are these receivers which you use and might be at low cost
[23:03] <fsphil> the 790r is probably the cheapest
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[23:03] <fsphil> for ssb on 70cm
[23:04] <N900evil> doesn't hungary have rules that basikally ban HAB?
[23:04] <kosztyua> yeah ive read its great and available for reasonable price but could find only this one i missed, in two weeks searching
[23:04] <kosztyua> not that i know of
[23:04] <LazyLeopard> The yaesu ft-817 seems quite popular. As the new ft-817ND (with the WARC bands) is the current model you might find older ones on ebay (or wherever) if folks trade up to getthe WARC bands.
[23:06] <earthshine> hi rick
[23:06] <N900evil> also
[23:06] <LazyLeopard> Hi Mike
[23:06] <N900evil> the reciever and senders we use are tailored to uk regs.
[23:06] <kosztyua> yes i heard its popular with all those fancy functions :) well, we are a really beginner bunch of people, so might go with the cheapest for now
[23:07] <N900evil> cheap may nolt mean easy
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[23:07] <N900evil> finding your radio does not work by losing your payload isn't cheap
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[23:08] <kosztyua> heh, yeah :) is it really frequent, loosing the payload?
[23:09] <N900evil> not so jmuch
[23:09] <N900evil> but that is after a few losses
[23:09] <LazyLeopard> ...so long as you keep it out of the sea. ;)
[23:09] <kosztyua> now i am getting worried how many things we want to put into the box :)
[23:09] <kosztyua> no seas around :)
[23:09] <fsphil> keep it simple to start with
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[23:10] <fsphil> which is exactly what I didn't do, so I can't really talk about that ;)
[23:10] <kosztyua> ^^'
[23:11] <earthshine> fsphil did you lose your payload?
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[23:11] <kosztyua> i think we will follow the horus project for the onboard computer with 2 cameras, but its still a months time and still have to learn using radio
[23:11] <fsphil> nope earthshine, but only because we had a second transmitter :)
[23:12] <fsphil> if we had relied on my module I don't think we'd have found it
[23:13] <kosztyua> what was the second transmitter?
[23:13] <fsphil> they where both NTX2's, just different frequency. the landing destroyed one of them
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[23:15] <fsphil> it's probably overkill using two, it was just unlucky what happened my module
[23:16] <kosztyua> we are considering using sms for backup
[23:16] <earthshine> you should always have a backup GPS system
[23:16] <fsphil> sms is probably the best choice
[23:16] <kosztyua> well, even for main system we considered using gms, but... well we always wanted to get into radio as well, now is the chance :)
[23:17] <earthshine> my 2nd GPS is an SMS system
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[23:18] <kosztyua> a normal cellphone with gps capability sending coordinates?
[23:18] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: was your 'chute a mite small for the weight of the payload, or did it land on bare rock?
[23:19] <fsphil> LazyLeopard, the remains of the balloon, the cord and the parachute all got tangled up
[23:20] <LazyLeopard> Ah. How was your cord divided, and how long was it?
[23:20] <fsphil> the parachute was pretty close to the payload
[23:21] <earthshine> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003CIFGCO/ref=oss_product
[23:21] <earthshine> that is why
[23:21] <fsphil> I don't know exact measurements, but you can get an idea from the launch video:
[23:21] <fsphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYuN1mOaM0w
[23:21] <earthshine> you need loooooooooooooooooooooooong cords
[23:21] <kosztyua> this looks nice
[23:22] <earthshine> jesus that is a really short cord
[23:22] <fsphil> yep
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[23:22] <earthshine> see how long it was on Orion? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgve80XmrXA
[23:22] <earthshine> it was like 100 feet long
[23:24] <fsphil> I'll be doing it differently for the next launch
[23:24] <LazyLeopard> Ah, and the radar reflector above the chute probably didn't help... ;)
[23:25] <earthshine> yeah no need for those
[23:25] <fsphil> the reflectors are not needed?
[23:25] <earthshine> nope
[23:25] <LazyLeopard> Foil on the payload should do, presumably.
[23:25] <fsphil> aaah
[23:25] <earthshine> it still won;t be seen by radar
[23:25] <jonsowman> don't even need that really, but probably good practise
[23:25] <earthshine> they are too small
[23:26] <earthshine> your balloon goes through airspace so quickly it's not even an issue
[23:26] <LazyLeopard> Weather balloon reflectors I've seen were a metre on each vertex.
[23:27] <earthshine> remember for msot of its flight it is looking dwon on aircraft as tiny dots below
[23:29] <fsphil> that's good to know
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> The easy way to fix this is to use a foil balloon.
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[23:29] <LazyLeopard> Lead foil? ;)
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> Actually - Al foil is not - quite - insane as a balloon material
[23:29] <earthshine> Lead Balloon
[23:30] <russss> aluminised mylar
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> aluminised mylar is a whole lot less conductive than foil
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure of its ohms/square value
[23:31] <russss> I dunno how sensitive aircraft radar is
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> not sensitive enough to pick up volcanic ash :)
[23:32] <russss> if the CAA cared about this they'd just ask you to put ADS-B or similar on the balloon
[23:32] <earthshine> trust me - a HAB being sucked into an aircraft engine would be shredded and spat out as dust
[23:32] <russss> ADS-B would be cool, you could track it using radarvirtuel ;)
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> The balloon will
[23:32] <LazyLeopard> I imagine its conductive layer is a mite on the thin side, given some mylar film can be used as a solar filter...
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> the payload might cause some issues - some bits
[23:32] <earthshine> it would end up looking like this - http://www.blendtec.com/willitblend/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=ipad
[23:33] <russss> yeah, the payload would probably not be great for the engine
[23:33] <russss> but that's such a vanishingly unlikely probability
[23:33] <earthshine> it wouldn't do any damage
[23:34] <earthshine> no ore than a birdstrike anyway
[23:34] <earthshine> *more
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[00:00] --- Thu Apr 29 2010