highaltitude.log.20100427

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[09:25] <earthshine> morning
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[16:13] <earthshine> wow - not a single post on here all day long !!
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> (09:25:21 AM) earthshine: morning
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:14] <earthshine> apart from mine i meant :P
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[19:18] <AlexBreton> hey
[19:18] <sbasuita> where is EARS?
[19:18] <AlexBreton> Anyone know where the big rocket meet at 'Ears' is?
[19:19] <DanielRichman> s/where/what/
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[19:38] <AlexBreton> We think we're going to launch on Sunday
[19:38] <FutFutFut> Hi Everyone, Do you know if rharrison is still on for a launch this weekend?
[19:40] <jonsowman> FutFutFut: yes as far as i know, given wx
[19:40] <jonsowman> AlexBreton: cool
[19:40] <jonsowman> weather is looking good for a launch on sunuday
[19:42] <AlexBreton> jonsowman: indeed
[19:42] <DanielRichman> edmoore told us to talk to him when we want to launch (at camb? or would it be a better idea to launch at EARS; insn't rjh launching there?)
[19:42] <DanielRichman> however he's ain't here (no need to go disturb him)
[19:42] <DanielRichman> does anyone else count as an official spokesperson for cusf?
[19:42] <jonsowman> i think we were planning on a cam launch
[19:43] <jonsowman> but you need to talk to ed
[19:43] <DanielRichman> as in: you guys are going to launch; or you were expecting a request from one of us in #ha to use your site?
[19:43] <jonsowman> we were expecting you to launch from cam
[19:43] <jonsowman> or chu to be more precise
[19:44] <sbasuita> yeah let's launch from cam
[19:44] <DanielRichman> ok AlexBreton as offical spokesperson I empower you to sort this sh*t out
[19:44] <sbasuita> i think ears will be very crowded with people we don't know
[19:44] <sbasuita> dad says he will give us a lift on sunday
[19:44] <DanielRichman> lift or will he be a chasecar?
[19:44] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: might want to do another endurance test of the payload to make sure it hasn't decomposed after all this time
[19:44] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: chasecar
[19:45] <sbasuita> bbiab need to finish this revision then i'll draft up a launch announcement etc
[19:45] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, we may as well go for the full testification; I need you to give me some lithiums. Ideally we'd run it across reading a few times
[19:45] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, actually
[19:45] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, on thursday I'll b e coming home from school via car so can do a gps drive test then
[19:47] <sbasuita> has anybody got edmoore's email?
[19:47] <jonsowman> sbasuita: email the cusf list
[19:48] <jonsowman> if you really want it, eam52@cam.ac.uk
[19:48] <jonsowman> but i suggest you email the list
[19:53] <AlexBreton> sbasuita: hold your horses
[19:54] <AlexBreton> sbasuita: he'll come onto irc
[19:55] <jonsowman> i havent seen him for a while either
[19:55] <jonsowman> hmm
[19:55] <DanielRichman> email it is
[19:55] <DanielRichman> you think we should hit the list?
[19:55] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: yes
[19:55] <jonsowman> if he hasn't replied in a reasonable amount of time I'll ring/text him
[19:56] <DanielRichman> AlexBreton,
[19:56] <AlexBreton> DanielRichman: sbasuita has the list
[19:57] <DanielRichman> yeah but he's off revising his french :X
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[20:44] <stilldavid> let's talk antennas!
[20:44] <stilldavid> I've got my NTX2 up and running with a piece of wire now (I still think it's magic...)
[20:44] <fsphil> big dipoles! yay!
[20:45] <stilldavid> is that the best antenna for a balloon? sticking out the bottom of the payload?
[20:45] <fsphil> I used a bit of coax, with the braid folded back over itself
[20:46] <fsphil> from here: http://www.iw5edi.com/ham-radio/?the-vertical-bazooka-antenna,18
[20:46] <fsphil> worked very well
[20:46] <fsphil> received 300 baud right up until the balloon dropped below the horizon
[20:47] <stilldavid> is that just your traditional coax cable?
[20:47] <fsphil> ye ol' standard 50 ohm cable
[20:47] <stilldavid> looks simple enough
[20:47] <fsphil> can be a bit tricky folding back the braid, but I had no troubles
[20:48] <fsphil> one thing I would say, try to keep it as straight as possible
[20:48] <stilldavid> I've got a piece of leftover carbon fiber tubing from the radar reflector
[20:48] <fsphil> our spinning payload made the aerial sit at an angle, caused fading
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[20:50] <stilldavid> bummer that half the images on that page are broken
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[20:51] <stilldavid> fsphil, so did you mount it vertically pointing up or down?
[20:52] <fsphil> hanging out the bottom .. we had two modules, the other aerial was out the top tied to one of the lines
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[21:09] <FutFutFut> I think edmoore said he's also thinking of going to the rocket launches
[21:09] <jonsowman> FutFutFut: at ears?
[21:09] <FutFutFut> but this may be on a separate day from rharrison's balloon launch
[21:09] <FutFutFut> at EARS
[21:09] <FutFutFut> but its their big Rocket weekend
[21:09] <FutFutFut> so launch windows may be limited
[21:09] <jonsowman> yeh
[21:10] <FutFutFut> i'm Futurity btw, in case anyone was wondering who i am, my alias isn't available tonight
[21:10] <jonsowman> ah dear, should register it
[21:11] <FutFutFut> Launching from Churchill college is a lot easier as its easier to get to, lots of mains, wifi, etc around.
[21:11] <jonsowman> yeh chu is a nice launch site
[21:11] <FutFutFut> EARS is in the middle of nowhere, but then that can also be a big advantage in itself as no onlookers.
[21:12] <FutFutFut> also at chu, there may be tools, and supplies available, where as at EARS you have to bring spares etc
[21:12] <jonsowman> yup
[21:12] <FutFutFut> not saying that chu give away stuff, just that in an emergancy you're at the college / town and you have options you don't have in the middle of nowhere
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[21:13] <jonsowman> yup
[21:13] <jonsowman> much easier for me to get to as well
[21:13] <jonsowman> ie. 15 min walk
[21:13] <jonsowman> :)
[21:13] <FutFutFut> i've yet to build a payload even ;)
[21:13] <jonsowman> FutFutFut: one underway?
[21:13] <FutFutFut> planning
[21:13] <jonsowman> sounds good
[21:13] <FutFutFut> got a Yeasu ft-790R and a 12 element aerial now ;)
[21:13] <jonsowman> thats a good start
[21:14] <FutFutFut> can track very well now (with a camera as well - see balloon burst video)
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[21:14] <jonsowman> yep saw that, very nicely done
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[21:14] <FutFutFut> thanks ;)
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[21:14] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: did you email the cusf list?
[21:15] <FutFutFut> right now i'm trying to help out as much as i can to get the experience
[21:15] <FutFutFut> oh no i didn't
[21:15] <jonsowman> FutFutFut: always a good idea
[21:15] <FutFutFut> i'll do that in a bit
[21:15] <FutFutFut> just posted the URLs here
[21:15] <FutFutFut> Doh
[21:15] <jonsowman> FutFutFut: where are you based?
[21:15] <FutFutFut> Melbourn (just south of Cambridge)
[21:16] <FutFutFut> a similar distance away from Cambridge as EARS
[21:16] <FutFutFut> makes a nice tranagle on the map
[21:16] <FutFutFut> triangle even
[21:16] <jonsowman> ah right
[21:16] <jonsowman> not too far then really
[21:17] <jonsowman> you coming to the launch(es) this weekend?
[21:17] <jonsowman> if they go ahead
[21:17] <jonsowman> wx is okay at the moment but you know
[21:17] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, no I haven't yet; waiting for sbasuita to get back
[21:17] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: ohai
[21:17] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: oh right
[21:18] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, Es-tu vegetarian?
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[21:19] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, mail cusf list
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[21:30] <sbasuita> email sent
[21:33] <jonsowman> sbasuita: you want to send it to the cusf list, not the UKHAS list
[21:33] <jonsowman> cuspaceflight@cusu.cam.ac.uk
[21:34] <sbasuita> jonsowman: hmmm, i don't think i'll send it again since everybody i know in cusf is on ukhas anyway
[21:35] <jonsowman> ok, well if ed doesnt get back to you ill try and get hold of him
[21:35] <sbasuita> cheers
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[21:43] <jonsowman> sbasuita: seen ed's reply?
[21:43] <sbasuita> jonsowman: just saw it ;P
[21:43] <jonsowman> bad time work wise at the moment it seems
[21:43] <jonsowman> I'm not free this weekend either unfortunately
[21:43] <sbasuita> yeah i was afraid of that
[21:44] <jonsowman> no guarantee the weather will remain good either
[21:44] <jonsowman> the predictor doesn't mean much this far in advance
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[21:45] <Randomskk> I am free but unable to assist solo really
[21:45] <sbasuita> well, assuming the weather holds out we should hopefully be able to get a couple of people there
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[21:46] <jonsowman> Randomskk: anyone else around that could help I wonder
[21:47] <jonsowman> you need access to chu
[21:47] <Randomskk> I mean in that I'm not on the NOTAM, are you bringing your own helium?
[21:47] <Randomskk> yea
[21:47] <jonsowman> Randomskk: using our helium
[21:47] <Randomskk> I don't have access to the helium either really
[21:47] <Randomskk> well
[21:47] <jonsowman> also the NOTAM is a big issue
[21:47] <Randomskk> jon knows where it is and I don't
[21:47] <jonsowman> finding it isnt the biggest problem
[21:47] <jonsowman> NOTAM, however, is
[21:47] <sbasuita> how does teh notam usually work?
[21:48] <Randomskk> ed phones them and goes "hey we are launching" and they go "uhm okay"
[21:48] <jonsowman> the AUS trust the prople on the notam to launch at sensible times
[21:48] <jonsowman> ed shouldn't (and won't) authorise a launch in cam when he is nowhere near
[21:48] <sbasuita> :/
[21:48] <Randomskk> yea
[21:49] <Randomskk> who else is on the notam?
[21:49] <jonsowman> Randomskk: Ian i believe
[21:49] <Randomskk> also exceedingly busy
[21:49] <jonsowman> I don't know about disturbing his revision to authorise the flight
[21:49] <jonsowman> ed I mean
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[21:51] <sbasuita> basically, we were hoping that somebody with experience could help us since we've never done it before
[21:51] <sbasuita> filling correctly, etc
[21:51] <jonsowman> you'd benefit massively from ed being there
[21:51] <DanielRichman> exploring other possibilities... the place where is rjh launching from; ears (right?); does that have blanket permission to launch?
[21:52] <Randomskk> you could also apply for a NOTAM yourself, I understand it's not that hard but don't know what the timescale is (jon?)
[21:52] <Randomskk> ed is basically awesome
[21:52] <jonsowman> doing it for sunday would really be pushing it
[21:53] <Randomskk> but otoh you do want to launch asap
[21:53] <sbasuita> yep we've got our own exams looming
[21:53] <Randomskk> I imagine EARS has their own NOTAM but don't know how easy it is to go there and use it
[21:53] <jonsowman> ed has access to churchill and is on the NOTAM
[21:53] <sbasuita> then all splitting off during summer
[21:53] <Randomskk> or is that that CUSF have a NOTAM for EARS?
[21:53] <jonsowman> Randomskk: don't know how that works
[21:53] <jonsowman> but ed won't be at EARS
[21:53] <jonsowman> i don't know if iain will be
[21:53] <Randomskk> out of interest, are you all going to the same sixth form? (at reading?)
[21:53] <Randomskk> is EARS doing rockets this sunday
[21:54] <jonsowman> i think so
[21:54] <sbasuita> Randomskk: yes
[21:54] <sbasuita> Randomskk: (sixth form)
[21:54] <Randomskk> rockets and balloons eh
[21:54] <sbasuita> i don't trust them rockets >_>
[21:56] <Randomskk> that would be a teribble end to a payload
[21:56] <Randomskk> dunno if ears would let you launch balloons while doing rockets
[21:56] <jonsowman> wasnt rob looking to launch on saturday from ears
[21:57] <russss> I think it's fairly unlikely that you could hit a balloon with a rocket.
[21:57] <jonsowman> depends how good your aim is
[21:57] <russss> that could be a fun game.
[21:58] <sbasuita> launch highaltitude balloon to 5km, contest to hit it
[21:58] <jonsowman> i think a cambridge launch for ALIEN is going to be difficult this weekend
[21:58] <Randomskk> ears might be possible
[21:58] <Randomskk> otoh the following weekends would probably all be better
[21:58] <Randomskk> depends on wx
[21:58] <Randomskk> also your GCSEs
[21:58] <Randomskk> but honestly, GCSEs
[21:58] <russss> wasn't rharrison planning on launching at EARS this weekend?
[21:58] <Randomskk> don't you have like study periods
[21:58] <Randomskk> like months of no school where you 'revise'
[21:58] <russss> study leave
[21:58] <sbasuita> Randomskk: more like 4 days ;P
[21:59] <Randomskk> study leave is the word
[21:59] <Randomskk> 4 days? ouch
[21:59] <Randomskk> if rob is you may be able to go along with him and double launch
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[21:59] <Randomskk> since he'll presumably be launching into good weather, knows what he's doing, and you can get the notam for both at once clear
[21:59] <jonsowman> sbasuita: how would weekend after be?
[21:59] <jonsowman> assuming ok weather
[22:00] <russss> hopefully I'll have my radio this weekend
[22:00] <russss> I just need to throw an antenna together
[22:01] <sbasuita> jonsowman: probably ok, but assuming ok weather is :/
[22:01] <sbasuita> that would be the last weekend
[22:02] <jonsowman> sbasuita: exams after that?
[22:02] <sbasuita> jonsowman: yeah
[22:02] <jonsowman> ok i've emailed Ed back via list to see if he's around next weekend
[22:02] <jonsowman> just hope he is, and the weather holds out
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[22:30] <sbasuita> jonsowman: did you mail the cusf list?
[22:31] <jonsowman> i replied via ukhas
[22:31] <Randomskk> did you reply to the list
[22:31] <jonsowman> yes... think so
[22:32] Action: Randomskk didn't get an email
[22:32] Action: sbasuita neither
[22:32] <jonsowman> to ukhas@googlegroups.com
[22:32] <jonsowman> hmm
[22:32] <Randomskk> google groups is being slow
[22:32] <Randomskk> trying to access website
[22:32] <Randomskk> your message is there
[22:32] <Randomskk> aha just got it via email
[22:37] <earthshine> evening
[22:37] <sbasuita> Randomskk: re this weekend, we're looking for somebody who can put out a NOTAM and who has access to helium?
[22:37] <Randomskk> well we have the notam, you're looking for someone who can phone them up because they are on the notam we have
[22:37] <sbasuita> right
[22:37] <jonsowman> and knows what to do
[22:37] <Randomskk> and also access to helium though I think I kinda do, but not really and haven't got it before
[22:37] <Randomskk> the knowing is more important
[22:38] <sbasuita> ok cool
[22:38] <sbasuita> i'll email the cusf list
[22:38] <earthshine> you're not going to Churchill?
[22:38] <jonsowman> Randomskk: be nice when we're on the notam
[22:38] <Randomskk> yea
[22:38] <jonsowman> also if ed's not here next year the helium will have to find a new home
[22:39] <Randomskk> well they could still keep it
[22:39] <russss> what's the deal with the helium (out of interest)
[22:39] <jonsowman> yeh maybe
[22:39] <jonsowman> russss: well it's CUSF's
[22:40] <jonsowman> but it lives at churchill
[22:40] <russss> we want to play with RC blimps, but we need some helium
[22:41] <russss> and I noticed that their bulk discount is massive.
[22:41] <DanielRichman> I always thought RC blimps lacked bb guns
[22:41] <russss> yeah ;)
[22:41] <jonsowman> contact BOC or air products, best bet
[22:41] <russss> yep, I already have (although their account application form is impenetrable)
[22:42] <jonsowman> ah dear
[22:42] <russss> the crazy thing is that it's so much cheaper to buy a full cylinder
[22:42] <russss> but they charge you £9/month rental
[22:43] <russss> so I was wondering about the practicality of transferring between cylinders. Probably impractical I guess.
[22:44] <sbasuita> well you would only be able to transfer half the gas right
[22:44] <sbasuita> since you would reach equilibrium
[22:44] <Randomskk> unless you had a pump :o
[22:44] <sbasuita> yeah but i'm guessing nobody does ;)
[22:45] <Randomskk> I imagine they exist
[22:45] <Randomskk> could always heat one cylinder to make it expand a bit more
[22:45] <sbasuita> interesting idea
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: can you video while you're doing that.
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> Sounds like fun.
[22:45] <Randomskk> :P
[22:45] <russss> heh
[22:46] <Randomskk> our thermodynamics lectures fail to mention anything even vaguely practical
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> seriously though - +50 -20C would be about the limits of what you could safely get I suppose.
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> And that's not a huge delta
[22:46] <Randomskk> I could do all sorts of maths on the volumes, pressures, temperatures, other things, but saying "shit it might explode" is well beyond the call of duty it seems
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> Find the max storage temperature for the cylinder
[22:47] <Randomskk> I could also do the pressure vessels thanks to structures and the material yield limits from materials and probably work out when it'd fail spectacularly, but again it's not practical
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> taking it up to that should not be hazerdous.
[22:47] <Randomskk> yup
[22:47] <Randomskk> and the other as far down as possible
[22:47] <Randomskk> if you had multiple cylinders you could do a better job
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[22:48] <Randomskk> or even keep filling balloons then compress balloons back into cylinders
[22:48] <Randomskk> then you'd get to atmospheric pressure eventually, rather than just half the original
[22:48] <Randomskk> obviously also a terrible idea
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> if you could work out what's a not-crap barrier to helium - there is always the obvious solution.
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> Though you now need a van to get to the launch.
[22:49] <Randomskk> :P
[22:50] Action: Laurenceb was reading up on mine clearance blimps
[22:50] <Randomskk> and filling ballons would be harder
[22:50] <Laurenceb> some interesting ideas...
[22:50] Action: SpeedEvil ponders mime clearance blimps.
[22:52] <fsphil> anything to get rid of mimes has my support
[22:52] <earthshine> agreed
[22:52] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_activation_analysis
[22:53] <Laurenceb> some people were looking at using that with an inertial confinement fusion reactor dangling off a blimp
[22:53] <Laurenceb> slightly mad
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[22:56] <Laurenceb> neutrons hit the explosive and give off characteristic gamma ray signature
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[22:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.generalfusion.com/
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> hang one of those off a blimp. Much cooler.
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> May need a larger blimp though.
[22:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www.generalfusion.com/t5_general_fusion.php
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[00:00] --- Wed Apr 28 2010