highaltitude.log.20100424

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[00:38] <DanielRichman> ping SpeedEvil
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[00:51] <rjharrison> I hate windows
[00:51] <rjharrison> DanielRichman this is so not playing ball
[00:52] <DanielRichman> :(
[00:52] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, what's the error?
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[00:52] <DanielRichman> (although I think I can agree on the hating windows bit)
[00:52] <rjharrison> I can't get xmlrpc-c to compile from the start
[00:53] <rjharrison> autoconf bellyaches
[00:53] <DanielRichman> :'(
[00:53] <DanielRichman> do we need it? what for?
[00:53] <DanielRichman> I mean; I know the plan is to use it in the future to do interesting stuff
[00:53] <DanielRichman> but right now what's depending on it
[00:53] <rjharrison> It's part of the fldigi build
[00:53] <rjharrison> we can proably ignore it atm
[00:54] <rjharrison> But then bloogy fldigi is wining too
[00:54] <rjharrison> I'm to bed
[00:54] <rjharrison> It's late
[00:54] <DanielRichman> What's the fldigi error?
[00:54] <DanielRichman> ok
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[06:25] <N9QGS> Hello
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[09:18] <earthshine> morning
[09:34] <GW8RAK> morning
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> cccccombo breaker.
[10:13] <GW8RAK> ?
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> nvm.
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[15:42] <Laurenceb> hi
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[15:48] <N9QGS> Hello
[15:49] <jonsowman> N9QGS: hi
[15:50] <N9QGS> Is this mainly a UK used chatroom or is it used by United States balloon information as well?
[15:50] <jonsowman> mainly UK but there are some from the states too
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[15:52] <SpeedEvil> Also some from australia.
[15:52] <N9QGS> I was wondering cause a balloon is going up Thursday from Greencastle, IN, USA and for future launches I was giving consideration to use this ti communicate back to the launch site via keyboard and using this chat room
[15:52] <N9QGS> I guess it would be okay then.
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> APRS?
[15:53] <N9QGS> Yes it will, W9YJ-11
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> For specific launches, we tend to wander over to #highaltitude99 - but it's not a huge issue.
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> We can't use airborne data, at least not like APRS - so our balloon network has evolved somewhat differently
[15:54] <N9QGS> http://www.depauw.edu/acad/physics/base/pages/base42.asp
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> Do you have a predicted track?
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/predict/ - may be of interest - if not
[15:55] <N9QGS> I had the impression like DominoEX and RTTY type is used in other parts of the world, Bill Brown created a format that is now used with nearspace.us he is reprogramming my beacon to support this format
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[15:56] <SpeedEvil> 'we' - uin the UK have picked 433MHz/50bps rtty FSK - as it seemed simplest.
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> ranges of >500km on 10mW
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[15:57] <SpeedEvil> 03:56:43 PM) SpeedEvil: 'we' - uin the UK have picked 433MHz/50bps rtty FSK - as it seemed simplest.
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> (03:56:51 PM) SpeedEvil: ranges of >500km on 10mW
[15:58] <N9QGS> http://nearspaceventures.com/w3Baltrak/readyget.pl is what I have been using here in the states. DominoEX works well deep into poor signal conditions, I'm sure you get good results with RTTY,
[15:59] <N9QGS> I find APRS since it usually requires a decentsignal, and you cant DF it. The Domino works well into the noise levels and it gives you something to DF
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> True
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> We're not so much into DF - as GPS broadcasting makes things _so_ much easier
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> (unless you run into comedy problems when you cross the meridian - and hadn't coped with that in your code)
[16:01] <N9QGS> TRUE, as long as things keep working. we lost an APRS payload on one flight, and continued to track with DominoEX, recovered both packages about 20 miles apart
[16:02] <N9QGS> We plan at this time for it to launch from greencastle, In and end up south of Shelbyville, IN about 5 miles
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> Multiple tracking methods is always good.
[16:02] <N9QGS> of Shlebyville
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> It tends to get active in here in maybe another 3 hours or so
[16:03] <SpeedEvil> Most people here are in gainful employment of some form.
[16:03] <Randomskk> well
[16:03] <N9QGS> I believe they are going to do a balloon at the Dayton Hamvention, which is our large hamfest here in the States from the flea market area, I may getmyself involved on the chase on that one too.
[16:03] <Randomskk> busy during UK working hours at any rate
[16:03] <N9QGS> Is their any launches planned out your way today?
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> What sort of payload?
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> The disadvantage of the UK is that it's moderately small
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> The predictor is indicating for most pople that might htink of launching in the UK - that it'd go in the atlantic.
[16:05] <N9QGS> we have a severe weather system going on in the SE united states, high risk of long lived tornadoes,
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3863616068/
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> this is what happens in that case - it's not good.
[16:05] <N9QGS> Im not sure what they are putting on the flight specifically.
[16:06] <Randomskk> clearly they should have used even more hot glue
[16:06] <Randomskk> protected the rest of the pcb admirably :P
[16:07] <N9QGS_> :-) yeah I guess if you have a small playing field, it limits your fun days.
[16:08] <N9QGS_> Well I appreciate speaking briefly, I wanted to see what this room was all about, and thanks for the room 99 information. I will run this all by Indiana Space Port when they have there launch in June with a bunch of students
[16:08] <DanielRichman> ping SpeedEvil
[16:08] <N9QGS_> have a good day
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[16:14] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, sorry to keep on harassing you: http://lh6.ggpht.com/__lkz-FOKbO8/S9MJWiQQAEI/AAAAAAAAAH4/a5ir8-1w_SA/audio-ampstr.png
[16:14] <jonsowman> Randomskk: http://weather.hexoc.com/test.php
[16:15] <jonsowman> there are two seperate lines there, two different algs
[16:15] <Randomskk> oho
[16:15] <jonsowman> but *exactly* the same output
[16:15] <Randomskk> curious
[16:15] <Randomskk> how different are the algorithms?
[16:15] <jonsowman> 2.45487e-006*$l*$p + 11.7187*$p - 4.1119e-009*$l*$l - 0.00207619*$l - 0.00578456*$p*$p - 5920.69
[16:15] <jonsowman> 4.71319*log(93.0361 + 0.0153703*$l) + 0.192581/($l - 171.138) - 7.96062
[16:16] <Randomskk> still a constant term offset too for most of it, but I suspect that's the constant at the start of the thing not being correct for when the dataset starts
[16:16] <Randomskk> looks fairly different
[16:16] <jonsowman> hmm yeh
[16:16] <Randomskk> surprising
[16:16] <Randomskk> I reckon you could be allowed to set the constant term so that they start at the same place
[16:16] <Randomskk> e.g. adjust C so at the first data point calc is directly on real, then calculate from there
[16:16] <jonsowman> http://sheeva.hexoc.com/alpha/e1.JPG
[16:17] <jonsowman> the ones on that graph are 1st and 6th
[16:17] <Randomskk> and yet look identical, weird
[16:17] <jonsowman> odd isnt it
[16:18] <jonsowman> refresh it
[16:18] <jonsowman> 4day period
[16:19] <jonsowman> http://weather.hexoc.com/test.php?xm=0
[16:19] <jonsowman> might be clearer
[16:20] <Randomskk> can you try adjusting for the constant?
[16:20] <Randomskk> just like subtract ten
[16:20] <jonsowman> ok
[16:20] <Randomskk> ten looks right
[16:20] <jonsowman> try that
[16:20] <Randomskk> better
[16:20] <Randomskk> underestimates on the latter two
[16:20] <Randomskk> and flattens out a bit early in every case
[16:21] <Randomskk> quite seriously underestimates the fourth one - I wonder if it's higher than it is ever expecting to see
[16:21] <jonsowman> er refresh again
[16:21] <jonsowman> sorry - my mistake with the calling the two plots the same variable name
[16:21] <Randomskk> interesting
[16:21] <jonsowman> oops
[16:21] <Randomskk> so they are subtly different
[16:22] <Randomskk> quite similar though
[16:22] <jonsowman> thats clearer
[16:22] <Randomskk> surprisingly good
[16:22] <Randomskk> but not fantastic
[16:22] <jonsowman> no
[16:22] <jonsowman> also, if i move it on two days...
[16:23] <Randomskk> yea, then it's not so good :P
[16:23] <jonsowman> now look
[16:23] <jonsowman> hmm
[16:23] <Randomskk> much much smoother on those days interestingly
[16:23] <jonsowman> yeh
[16:23] <Randomskk> I wonder if you could model it as an impulse response and do a convolution :P
[16:23] <jonsowman> haha
[16:25] <jonsowman> lets leave it running a bit longer and see if it comes up with anything else
[16:26] <Randomskk> yup
[16:26] <Randomskk> I don't imagine it'l find anything seriously better but it's hard to say
[16:26] <Randomskk> I still reckon we want much much more data
[16:26] <jonsowman> compile all the CSVs into one?
[16:27] <jonsowman> the issue is sensors either not working or not existing at different points in history
[16:27] <Randomskk> yea, that's the problem
[16:27] <Randomskk> also I don't know if eureqa would just take longer to find the same thing if given more dat
[16:27] <Randomskk> data
[16:27] <jonsowman> hmm yeh
[16:27] <jonsowman> maybe
[16:29] <Randomskk> guh problem with interactive python console is you can't correct things or go back lines and if you typo it breaks out of all levels
[16:33] <jonsowman> oh dear
[16:43] <Randomskk> hmm gnuplot is actually pretty decent at plotting things like date-price data
[16:44] <jonsowman> :)
[16:47] <russss> Randomskk: http://ipython.scipy.org/
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[18:11] <stilldave> a little packing tape and some tin foil: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stilldavid/4548634104/
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[18:41] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:42] <stilldave> think it'll work?
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> Should do
[18:43] <stilldave> best effort if nothing else, right? :)
[18:43] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, sorry to keep on harassing you: http://lh6.ggpht.com/__lkz-FOKbO8/S9MJWiQQAEI/AAAAAAAAAH4/a5ir8-1w_SA/audio-ampstr.png
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[18:47] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - have been feeling lousy yesterday and most of today. That addresses most of the issues I saw, I think
[18:47] <DanielRichman> great
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[18:48] <DanielRichman> thank you for all the help
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> If you have a spare opamp, using it to buffer the 0V reference is a good idea
[18:51] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, like so? http://lh5.ggpht.com/__lkz-FOKbO8/S9MveVxMh7I/AAAAAAAAAIA/ENoI5drjsnQ/audio-ampstr.png
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> exactly
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> decoupling on the power supply rails too
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> 100uF or so from V+ to V-
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> what's this for anyway?
[18:53] <DanielRichman> Wanted something not too boring for Intermediate Project; saw trays of op amps
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> I mean - is it supposed yto be hifi?
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> you'll get some interference from the LEDs turning on/off
[18:54] <DanielRichman> audiophile interference or interference that I'll be able to hear?
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> Maybe in some circumstances, I'm unsure.
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> if it's for typical output of a radio use, probably not
[18:55] <DanielRichman> ok; that should be fine
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> I see no reason it won't basically work
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> I would make the buffer opamps share with the highest level output lights
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> that will somewhat minimise it
[18:58] <DanielRichman> ok
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[21:24] <earthshine> evening
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[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[21:56] <russss> right
[21:56] <russss> I'm going to buy a radio
[21:56] <russss> of some description
[21:56] <russss> and I need recommendations.
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> I like my http://www.radio-now.co.uk/pure_oasis.htm
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> More seriously - wasn't there a page on hte wiki/
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> ?
[21:58] <russss> har.
[21:58] <russss> yeah, there is
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[22:09] <futurity> russss: I bought a Yeasu ft-790R and just using the whip aerial it cam with i was about to listen in to the balloon payload all the way until it burst
[22:09] <futurity> seen them go on ebay for £70
[22:10] <russss> yeah, I'm thinking about getting something a bit more wideband though
[22:10] <russss> think I want to do HF too
[22:10] <futurity> cool
[22:10] <futurity> the ft-790r is a basic transceiver although it seem sto be very sensative
[22:10] <futurity> ttfn
[22:10] <earthshine> the 817 is the usual weapon of choice
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[22:11] <russss> one of the cheap hong kong handhelds I bought for £25 does 70cm, but only FM
[22:11] <DanielRichman> HF is booooooring
[22:11] <DanielRichman> well, atleast 80m is
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[22:13] <fsphil> need a good aerial for HF
[22:13] <russss> I am planning one
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[22:13] <russss> I have a decent amount of roof to play with
[22:14] Nick change: Lunar_Lander2 -> Lunar_Lander
[22:14] <LazyLeopard> The 817 is also the rig of choice for the HF QRP folks.
[22:16] <earthshine> Hi Rick
[22:16] <earthshine> changed your nick back i see
[22:16] <earthshine> unless you forgot to change the defaults
[22:21] <russss> yeah I might have to get an FT817 then
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[22:22] <LazyLeopard> I usually change to m6lep when I'm monitoring a launch.
[22:24] <LazyLeopard> Met a couple of friends who're radio amateurs at a gathering today. They both had FT-817NDs
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[22:37] <jcoxon> evening all
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[22:37] <Upu> Evening
[22:38] <jcoxon> hi Upu
[22:38] <earthshine> hi jcoxon
[22:39] <jcoxon> hey earthshine
[22:39] <jcoxon> shame the JS is so crap - the weather the last few days has been glorious
[22:39] <earthshine> jcoxon: got an email today from you. Did you send it ?
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> parachute has arrive
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> *arrived
[22:40] <jcoxon> earthshine, nope, nothing from me today
[22:40] <jcoxon> someone stolen my identity?
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[22:48] <earthshine> yeah the email said you had been given $10,000,000 from an aunt who died and you wanted me to look after it for a while and i'd get 20% fee
[22:50] <earthshine> You signed it "James Olakunle Coxon"
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[22:51] <jcoxon> oops
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> one of these nigerian e-mails?
[23:05] <earthshine> LL when do you launch ?
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[23:13] <jcoxon> i think i'm going to add a SPoT satellite tracker to ballasthalo 5
[23:13] <jcoxon> so that when it lands in the sea we can still follow it
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[23:15] <russss> planning a rescue boat?
[23:17] <fsphil> it'll wash up eventually
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[23:18] <jcoxon> no rescue boat
[23:19] <jcoxon> will add a solar panel and a some power saving
[23:19] <russss> how long do the spot transmitters last in the water?
[23:19] <jcoxon> oh we'll hack it
[23:19] <russss> heh
[23:20] <jcoxon> never seen this? http://natrium42.com/projects/spot/
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[23:22] <russss> I don't think I've seen that particular page
[23:22] <russss> but I know of it ;
[23:22] <russss> ;)
[23:23] <jcoxon> :-)
[23:24] <jcoxon> its time for ballasthalo to actually not come back - after my exams when i get round to launching it i'm not going to worry about a sea landing
[23:26] <jcoxon> fsphil, good work on the dl-fldigi icons
[23:26] <russss> I wonder how much the data costs if you use that stx2 transmitter directly
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[23:27] <fsphil> yep, important work jcoxon ;-) was trying to build an rpm package, need to separate it from vanilla fldigi
[23:27] <jcoxon> once we get a windows build we'll do a release and get people to upgrade
[23:28] <fsphil> I added some code to estimate missing bytes, should help the Reed-Solomon decoder a fair bit
[23:29] <fsphil> estimate the number of missing bytes even
[23:29] <jcoxon> cool
[23:32] <jcoxon> really keen to get this release done, seems that building fldigi on windows is a massive challenge
[23:33] <jcoxon> as the new version is considerably superior to the old
[23:33] <fsphil> it does seem to be
[23:35] <jcoxon> right, night all
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[00:00] --- Sun Apr 25 2010