highaltitude.log.20100421

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[01:37] <juxta> morning all
[01:37] <SpeedEvil> mroenting
[01:38] <juxta> I'm going to have to deal with out aviation safety authority again soon
[01:38] <juxta> ugh
[01:39] <SpeedEvil> :/
[01:39] <juxta> I only got permission to go to ~100,000 feet
[01:39] <juxta> I want to extend it
[01:39] <SpeedEvil> ah
[01:40] <SpeedEvil> why?
[01:40] <juxta> would like to do some launches with biggish balloons in the future :)
[01:44] <juxta> SpeedEvil: are there no flights at all in the UK right now?
[01:44] <juxta> ie not even light planes & such
[01:44] <SpeedEvil> juxta: as far as I know, no
[01:45] <juxta> wow
[01:45] <SpeedEvil> - though that may have changes in the last couple of hours - uynsure
[01:45] <juxta> what's happening with mail and such?
[01:45] <SpeedEvil> delayed
[01:45] <SpeedEvil> my laptop lower case replacement is stuck
[01:45] <juxta> heh
[01:46] <juxta> I would have thought some might go by boat?
[01:48] <SpeedEvil> boats take a long time
[01:48] <SpeedEvil> from hk->uk
[01:48] <juxta> oh true - but what about from the EU?
[01:48] <SpeedEvil> Fun part - there is another bigger volcano next to this one - that has historically sometimes gone off at the same time
[01:49] <juxta> isnt there half decent rail throughout Europe?
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> I don't really know - I just know that the seller of my laptop bit pinged me to say expect delays
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> yes
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[05:11] <natrium42> so, any planned launches?
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[07:39] <earthshine> morning
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[10:04] <rharrison> Yay got my comments sorted out on my wordpress to use recaptua
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[10:50] <rharrison> Hi all are we all busy today
[10:50] <SpeedEvil> no
[10:50] Action: SpeedEvil ponders getting out of bed,.
[10:50] <rharrison> Just being quite then
[10:50] <rharrison> You should do it the sun is shining
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> It stops that in a dozen hours or so, it's ok.
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[11:33] <rharrison> lol
[11:33] <rharrison> Hi Futurity
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[11:38] <rharrison> These are pretty good http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/04/more_from_eyjafjallajokull.html
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[11:52] <Futurity> Hi rharrison
[11:52] <Futurity> let me burn those dvds for you
[11:52] <rharrison> Hi Futurity
[11:52] <Futurity> hmm not burn a dvd in mac before
[11:52] <Futurity> is it simple?
[11:53] <rharrison> No idea
[11:53] <Futurity> i'm sure it is noddy ;)
[11:53] <rharrison> I guess so macs are normally very easy
[11:54] <Futurity> yep
[11:54] <Futurity> i'm sure there is a 3 finger gesture and it just does it for you
[11:55] <Futurity> of is that a two finger gesture lol
[11:55] <Futurity> i do love my make
[11:55] <Futurity> but for burning data it's not great
[11:57] <rharrison> I'm thinking of launching again this saturday!
[11:57] <Futurity> cool did you find the problem with the camera?
[11:57] <rharrison> Yep power save feature enabled :)
[11:58] <Futurity> lol, the simplest things can cause the most problems
[11:58] <rharrison> Yep :_)
[11:58] <Futurity> just checking if I'm free
[11:59] <Futurity> do you know a rough launch time / windowe?
[12:01] <Futurity> dvd 1 burning
[12:02] <Futurity> it looks like the school fate is on at 1pm
[12:03] <Futurity> judo is from 10am - 11:15
[12:03] <Futurity> so a small window from 11:30 ish to 1pm, but that's tight being that it takes 30 minutes at least to get to the site
[12:04] <Futurity> later on would be ok, but i take it you prefer morning / noon launches?
[12:08] <rharrison> Yep as I have to drive there and drive home too
[12:08] <jonsowman> rjharrison: launching from ears?
[12:08] <rharrison> yep
[12:08] <jonsowman> cool, will try and listen :)
[12:08] <rharrison> Cool
[12:08] <jonsowman> should be around saturday after 12
[12:08] <rharrison> Will confirm tomorrow evening
[12:08] <jonsowman> okay
[12:09] <GW8RAK> Should be able to listen in this weekend with a repaired yagi and preamp.
[12:09] <Futurity> I'll be able to try and track it using my yagi hopefully, if i'm not allowed out to play
[12:11] <Futurity> btw i'm thinking of doing a micky mouse first launch using a kids party balloon and a ultra light payload
[12:11] <Futurity> i used to make FM bugs as a kid with a friend and am thinking of just adapting them to transmit at UHF
[12:11] <jonsowman> Futurity: like foil balloon type thing?
[12:11] <Futurity> yep
[12:12] <jonsowman> fair enough, you wont get much alt
[12:12] <Futurity> purely to track the signal rather than to collect data
[12:12] <Futurity> i know
[12:12] <Futurity> but best to start small ;)
[12:13] <Futurity> perhaps a very reflective metallic colour for optical tracking and the yagi to track due to signal strength
[12:13] <Futurity> i'm interested about the use of the FM transmitter to produce a ssb output
[12:14] <Futurity> can any fm transmitter be used, as long as a dc offset voltage is applied?
[12:14] <jonsowman> yep
[12:15] <Futurity> cool
[12:15] <jonsowman> the changing input DC causes a change in the frequency (ie. FM) which, when you listen on AMSSB, sounds like tones
[12:15] <Futurity> so to decode using fm receiver, the frequency must be modulated (wobbled backwards and forward and its the change in frequency that gives tones
[12:16] <Futurity> on SSB if the actual frequency offset from the carrier (or missing carrier) that gives the tone
[12:16] <jonsowman> its not df/dt that gives tones
[12:16] <Futurity> df/dt?
[12:17] <jonsowman> change in frequency
[12:17] <jonsowman> the theory just works out that listening to a continous frequency on SSB sounds like a tone
[12:17] <Futurity> oh yes
[12:17] <Futurity> cool
[12:17] <Futurity> nice and simple design
[12:17] <jonsowman> yeh works very well
[12:18] <jonsowman> its possible to listen on FM but you'd then have to decode a serial signal at weird voltages
[12:18] <jonsowman> not impossible, but not as neat
[12:18] <Futurity> btw does anyone know where i could buy one of these fm modules should i decide not to customise a fm bug
[12:18] <jonsowman> also, fldigi is nice
[12:18] <jonsowman> well the NTX2 is a popular choice
[12:18] <Futurity> yep used fldigi last saturday with rharrison's help
[12:18] <Futurity> very nice progam
[12:19] <Futurity> are there preferred suppliers of the NTX2?
[12:19] <jonsowman> wherever is cheapest
[12:19] <jonsowman> if you can convince radiometrix it's an educational project, theyll give you a nice discount
[12:19] <Futurity> lol, but does anyone have any recommendations
[12:19] <Futurity> oh thats a good idea ;)
[12:19] <jonsowman> otherwise, farnell always stock them
[12:20] <jonsowman> even if they dont give you a discount, they'll still sell you them direct
[12:20] <Futurity> cool a friend regularly orders from them so i could piggy back on their order
[12:20] <jonsowman> yup
[12:28] <Futurity> lol, out of stock at Farnell
[12:28] <Futurity> it looks like Farnell only do the single frequency
[12:29] <Futurity> are there two versions? making it possible to launch two balloons on the same day
[12:29] <jonsowman> what frequency are you after?
[12:29] <jonsowman> oh, yes
[12:29] <jonsowman> 434.075 and 434.650
[12:31] <Futurity> cool. sorry for all these questions. do you use a simple 1/4 wave aerial, or try and make a ground plane etc?
[12:31] <Futurity> i.e. single wire or something more complicated?
[12:33] <jonsowman> no problems :)
[12:33] <jonsowman> erm theres a few choice for antennas
[12:33] <jonsowman> 1/4 wave with radials is easy to make and proven to be very effective
[12:34] <Futurity> cool, i'll discuss the aerials nearer the time :)
[12:34] <jonsowman> bazooka dipoles are also good but harder to build
[12:34] <jonsowman> 1/4wave with radials can be made from some coax, a bit of single-side copper-clad, single core wires and some drinking straws
[12:34] <Futurity> i guess a simple dangling wire dipole would be the easiest to make and lightest
[12:34] <jonsowman> we made one in about 20 mins and that worked up to at least 28km
[12:35] <Futurity> hmm i guess it could spike someone if it comes down on someone's head
[12:35] <Futurity> cool range
[12:35] <jonsowman> dipoles are fine but be careful of radiation pattern
[12:35] <Futurity> yep
[12:35] <jonsowman> you dont want to be putting all the RF power into pointing at the horizon
[12:35] <jonsowman> needs to be mainly downwards
[12:35] <SpeedEvil> http://xkcd.com/
[12:35] <jonsowman> hence radials on the 1/4 wave
[12:35] <jonsowman> SpeedEvil: brilliant isnt it :)
[12:35] <SpeedEvil> Spot the movie reference in the middle :)
[12:36] <Futurity> i take it with a 1/4 wave aerial with radials it'll tend to radiate the signal downwards?
[12:36] <Futurity> cool let me check it out
[12:36] <jonsowman> Futurity: yup its a pretty good radiation pattern for ballooning
[12:36] <Futurity> jonsowman: thanks for the help
[12:36] <jonsowman> no probs :)
[12:37] <Futurity> btw for reception i take it that everything is vertically polarised?
[12:37] <jonsowman> assuming your driven element on the 1/4 wave is hanging vertically, yes
[12:37] <Futurity> cool, thanks :)
[12:41] <jonsowman> bbl
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[12:53] <Laurenceb> hi all
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[14:07] <Laurenceb> http://www.invensense.com/mems/gyro/imu3000.html
[14:08] <Laurenceb> also http://invensense.com/mems/gyro/mpu3000.html
[14:09] <Laurenceb> "Digital Motion Processing (DMP) engine supports 3D motion processing and gesture recognition algorithms"
[14:20] <Futurity> rharrison: dvds ready to post
[14:21] <rharrison> Fantastic do you have a paypal account and I'll pop you some funds across for the DVD's and postage
[14:36] <rharrison> Futurity, ^^^
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[15:10] <Laurenceb> N900evil_:http://invensense.com/mems/gyro/mpu3000.html
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[15:12] Action: SpeedEvil looks at the link
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[15:13] <SpeedEvil> awesome
[15:13] <SpeedEvil> (xchat vibrates on pm)
[15:14] <Laurenceb> heh
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure if the device supports wake on recognised gesture
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> if it does, that would be awesome
[15:16] <Laurenceb> it looks probably a bit overengineered for what I'm interested in
[15:16] <Laurenceb> but theres the imu3000 as well
[15:17] <Laurenceb> I've emailed invensence to ask how much current you can nick from the internal reg
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[15:17] <SpeedEvil> It looks very awesome.
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> hoe much is it?
[15:17] <Laurenceb> dunno - eval only atm
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> also neat
[15:18] <Laurenceb> I'll order some of those itg3200
[15:18] <Laurenceb> want any?
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> Been doing more boring stuff. Replacing shed door hinges with ones not made for cupboards (one of three had already broken)
[15:18] <Laurenceb> $10 a shot
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> And lawn is actually coming up. Yay!
[15:19] <Laurenceb> heh
[15:19] <Laurenceb> cool
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> I want some, yes.
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> but.
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> I have _way_ too much shit here that I have not touched.
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> Adding to the pile does not make me more productive.
[15:20] <Laurenceb> http://www.homesonview.co.uk/Scripts/FullDetails.aspx?CID=EVRUDERB&AID=EVRUDERB&PID=EDP00863
[15:20] <Laurenceb> thats what I've been working on - new door etc
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> you're doing the do-up and sell thing/
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> or new place?
[15:21] <Laurenceb> yes... but as it says, no heating
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> No heating here ATM either - jumpers
[15:22] <Laurenceb> need the money
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> and electric blanket means it's not too bad
[15:22] <Laurenceb> also the profit margin on fitting heating looked very small
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> that's quite small
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> I suppose it's lots warmer as the shared uninsulated walls
[15:23] <Laurenceb> 85K without heating as opposed to 95 filly up to date
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> gotta have an up-to-date filly. :)
[15:27] <Laurenceb> *fully
[15:27] <Laurenceb> :P
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> yeah. heating 'only costs x'
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> bu thten you've got all of the costs of making good.
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[16:31] <Andreas1> hello
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[16:31] <Andreas1> someone from germany here ?
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[16:35] <Futurity> rharrison: dvds posted
[16:35] <Futurity> around 4pm so should be collected today
[16:36] <rharrison> Futurity, cool
[16:36] <rharrison> Did you see my previous re payment by paypal?
[16:36] <Futurity> don't worry about the cost
[16:36] <rharrison> Futurity, cool
[16:36] <Futurity> more hassle than its worth ;)
[16:36] <rharrison> thanks
[16:36] <Futurity> thanks for the offer though. Appreciated
[16:37] <Futurity> so i'm looking to do a dirt cheap launch where i'll try and track something but don't mind if i loose the payload
[16:38] <Futurity> i take it that a small latex balloon is the way to go and just kindly ask a local party shop to fill it for me ;)
[16:38] <Futurity> small latex because it'll stretch and therefore give me more altitude
[16:39] <Futurity> do sure small latex balloons exist and is there a source anyone knows of
[16:41] <Andreas1> i have a problem ... how get i the GPS cordinates on my Laptop at home if the weather ballon is in the sky ?
[16:42] <sbasuita> Andreas1: you transmit them from the balloon via radio
[16:42] <Futurity> Hi Andreas1, there is a really useful website about all this type of stuff: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[16:42] <Futurity> this page explains in details how most people track the balloon
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[16:42] <Futurity> As well as the hardware they use
[16:43] <Andreas1> okay thank you :) i hope i can read this ...
[16:43] <Futurity> A good way to start if to try and monitor other people's launches and gain enough confidence from that that you'll be able to track your own balloon launch
[16:44] <Andreas1> my english is not so good ^^
[16:44] <sbasuita> Andreas1: nah, we understand you perfectly so it can't be that bad ;)
[16:44] <juxta> Futurity: you can do a throwaway launch pretty cheaply, most expensive bits would be the GPS and NTX
[16:44] <edmoore> Andreas1: it's very much better than my German! I have no trouble understanding you, your grammar is excellent.
[16:45] <Futurity> German translation by Google: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fukhas.org.uk%2Fguides%3Atracking_guide&sl=en&tl=de
[16:45] <juxta> as for small balloons, kaymont sell the 100g balloons for around $5-10 I think, which will get you perhaps 10km of altitude with a light payload
[16:45] <Andreas1> okay thx
[16:45] <Futurity> juxta: thanks
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[16:46] <Futurity> i guess if i'm going for a NTX2 and GPS, i may as well add a PIC chips or similar single chip computer and go for a big launch ;)
[16:46] <juxta> Futurity: you could just do launch with a micro + ntx and forgo the GPS
[16:46] <Futurity> perhaps the added cost, but the much higher likely hood that i'll get the payload back is worth the extra money
[16:46] <juxta> you wouldnt know where it was exactly, but predictions will give you a rough idea
[16:47] <Futurity> true, and once on the ground, with a yagi i should be able to find it roughly
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[16:48] <SpeedEvil> absolute lowest cost is probably a beacon plus a stripped mobile phone for rough position
[16:48] <juxta> it's doable - we've chased lots of met balloons which don't have GPS onboard and recovered them OK
[16:48] <Futurity> or perhaps just add a simply pulse to the NTX2 so that it can be picked out from other signals
[16:48] <Futurity> cool
[16:48] <juxta> but it helps to find an experienced ham to help, luckily someone offered to help me out :)
[16:48] <Futurity> yep, i'm a novice HAM
[16:49] <edmoore> Futurity: you're more than welcome to come and visit us
[16:49] <edmoore> and use our lab
[16:49] <edmoore> or whatever
[16:49] <Futurity> SpeedEvil: how would a stripped mobile phone help locate the position?
[16:49] <edmoore> we're here and local
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> Futurity: you use it together with the 'locate a mobile phone' services you get on the internets
[16:49] <juxta> I'm jealous of all of you living so near to CU!
[16:50] <Futurity> edmore: thanks ed, much appreciated. How's the exams going? are they spaced out or all in one bunch?
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> to find it on the ground
[16:50] <edmoore> Futurity: just come back from one. next one in a week
[16:50] <edmoore> went OK
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> http://www.traceamobile.co.uk/ -
[16:50] <Futurity> oh i see
[16:50] <Futurity> does the mobile have to be making a call for that to work? or just turned on?
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> Futurity: It means that worst-case (if it works) - you can foxhunt from +-5km or so
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> Futurity: just on
[16:50] <edmoore> juxta: yeah our launch site has become a bit of a UK hub. silly really because we're so badly situation from a jetstream pov!
[16:50] <juxta> haha
[16:50] <edmoore> situated*
[16:50] <juxta> do you guys launch much in the winter?
[16:51] <edmoore> not that much
[16:51] <juxta> I'll probably be up that way come december/jan
[16:51] <Andreas1> what cost these things all together ?
[16:51] <edmoore> we've done I think 3 launches since winter term started
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> Andreas1: from 100 to 200 quid for the payload - for a non-minimal one
[16:51] <edmoore> and maybe 6 in our history
[16:51] <juxta> hmm
[16:51] <edmoore> sometimes you just get good days
[16:52] <edmoore> that's why things like the hourly-predictor are useful
[16:52] <Futurity> I still very green about the weather issues ;)
[16:52] <Andreas1> $ or 20ac ?
[16:52] <juxta> yeah - it's good that you can just launch as you like
[16:52] <Andreas1> ^^
[16:52] <juxta> I still have to give 2 days notice
[16:52] <sbasuita> Andreas1: quid means british pounds £
[16:52] <Futurity> yes £ = quid = pounds
[16:52] <Andreas1> okay
[16:52] <Andreas1> thy
[16:52] <Futurity> quid = common talk.
[16:53] <Futurity> ooops now who said quid?
[16:53] <juxta> my usb rig cat cable finally came today, hurrah
[16:53] <Futurity> SpeedEvil: sorry
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> ?
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> oh
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[16:54] <Futurity> We're having a lot of fun trying to stop our children using slang all the time, hence the comment. i think more people say quid than pounds these days
[16:55] <edmoore> :)
[16:56] <Futurity> edmoore: in the uk, how much notice needs to be given before you launch?
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> I shall in future refer to Pounds Sterling of the United Kingdom, its Crown dependencies (the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands) and the British Overseas Territories of South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, British Antarctic Territory and Tristan da Cunha
[16:56] <edmoore> Futurity: we have a blanked 6-month notam at Churchill
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> About 100-200 Pounds Sterling of the United Kingdom, its Crown dependencies (the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands) and the British Overseas Territories of South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, British Antarctic Territory and Tristan da Cunha
[16:56] <edmoore> which we just routinely re-apply for
[16:56] <Futurity> SpeedEvil: thank you, much appreciated for using the correct English ;)
[16:56] <edmoore> this means we can launch whenever we want
[16:56] <edmoore> blanket*
[16:57] <edmoore> we just have to ring up the local control tower 34 hours and 5 mins before launch
[16:57] <Futurity> edmoore: and then just phone 30 minutes before the actual launch to check for clearance
[16:57] <edmoore> but they don't ever want more than about 2 hours and 5 mins notice in reality
[16:57] <Futurity> i see
[16:57] <Futurity> cool
[16:57] <DanielRichman> edmoore, a while back, you mentioned that you tried domino on a balloon, but the dac wasn't accurate enough to produce the right tones (??). What was the actual problem, if it was diagnosed//how-do avoid the same problem?
[16:58] <Futurity> is there a minimum size for the notifications? I've regularly launched party balloons with all sorts of payloads made out of paper napkins, etc from restaurants.
[16:59] <edmoore> DanielRichman: so the frequency jumps for dominoEX need to be accurate to within about 10Hz.
[16:59] <juxta> Futurity: not sure about there, but here that wouldnt matter as you wouldnt enter controlled airspace anyway
[16:59] <edmoore> we ran the NTX2 from badger1's ARM LPC2148 microcontroller, which had a 10-bit DAC
[16:59] <juxta> party balloons pop way too low :)
[17:00] <edmoore> the problem was simly that the 10-bit DAC didn't have enough resolution to generate the tones correctly
[17:00] <edmoore> a 12-bit DAC would be fine. My advice: buy an external SPI dac. 14/16 bits (they're a dime-a-dozen)
[17:00] <SpeedEvil> 10-bit DAC didn't have enough resolution - was this properly scaled?
[17:00] <DanielRichman> was about to say; scaling?
[17:00] <edmoore> no, it was just mapped over the 0-3.3V
[17:00] <SpeedEvil> Or were you trying to generate it with the DAC hooked without scaling
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> ah
[17:01] <edmoore> it was a quick bodge
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> scaling would probably fix that ten
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> hen
[17:01] <edmoore> we did actually fix it with a resistor
[17:01] <DanielRichman> could scale to 0.7-1.3v
[17:01] <edmoore> but then badger 1 went into the north sea anyway
[17:02] <DanielRichman> edmoore, was it not accurate enough on the ground too, or did the problem develop/worsen during flight?
[17:02] <Futurity> edmore: do you have a website about your launches?
[17:02] <edmoore> Futurity: cuspaceflight.co.uk
[17:02] <edmoore> flickr.com/cuspaceflight
[17:02] <Futurity> i'll go check it out
[17:02] <edmoore> vimeo.com/cuspaceflight
[17:02] <edmoore> DanielRichman: it was a problem on the ground
[17:02] <Futurity> lol they just keep coming ;)
[17:02] <edmoore> it's pretty basic
[17:03] <edmoore> just didn't have the res
[17:03] <DanielRichman> OK! Domino is ordered for alien 2; I'll be working on it sometime
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[17:03] <edmoore> we wanted to keep full scale range too so that we could fly several balloons on a single radiometrix frequency
[17:03] <DanielRichman> now that I know that it's feasible
[17:04] <edmoore> just putting them at different places within the NTX2's 20kHz
[17:04] <DanielRichman> does the ntx2 tx pin prefer voltages near 1.2 and will 0.0-0.5 (eg.) stress it out? or not?
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[17:05] <rharrison> Yo edmoore
[17:05] <edmoore> i don't think it gets stressed, no
[17:05] <rharrison> I'm hoping to be up this w/e again
[17:05] <edmoore> just it might not be a very linear mapping from voltage to frequency
[17:05] <edmoore> but nothing that can't be hand tuned
[17:06] <DanielRichman> ok, great
[17:06] <edmoore> rharrison: cool, will have a listen
[17:06] <rharrison> Should be a good day is the wx holds out
[17:06] <edmoore> what's the objective?
[17:06] <rharrison> Will be another fast launch
[17:07] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, how are you for weekend launching?
[17:07] <rharrison> Ash is there is any and a bit of fun
[17:07] <rharrison> DanielRichman, you guys should be ready by now :_
[17:07] <rharrison> :)
[17:07] <DanielRichman> we're ready
[17:07] <edmoore> it's gonne have to be a fast flight in this weather
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[17:07] <DanielRichman> rharrison, we'll race into the channel!
[17:07] <edmoore> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/
[17:07] <rharrison> Well the pred is on 35k atm
[17:07] <edmoore> look at sat!
[17:08] <rharrison> and it was wide of the mark last w.e
[17:08] <edmoore> sure but the last 5km doesn't contribute much
[17:08] <DanielRichman> and descent is very slow
[17:08] <edmoore> yeah you're chute is quite big
[17:08] <DanielRichman> if we set up to go to 30k rather than 35k our ascent is more like 8
[17:08] <rharrison> The pred had me in ipswitch and 1 was only 1/2 way ther
[17:08] <edmoore> it's as good as the numbers you give it
[17:09] <rharrison> Yep and my input was a bit iffy
[17:09] <rharrison> I think I shoved 5 up and 5 down in
[17:09] <rharrison> and reality was probably 6-7 up and 6-7 down
[17:09] <rharrison> edmoore, BTW software issure me thinks
[17:09] <edmoore> would be cool if natrium implements that wee algo to calculate the sea-level descent rate based on the descent data coming in live from much higher
[17:10] <DanielRichman> I think he has
[17:10] <edmoore> ok cool. so I will look like a wally if it doesn't work
[17:10] <DanielRichman> though I'm not totally sure
[17:11] <DanielRichman> also: quick question; Combined Cadet Force use the NRN (?) which is meant for 5MHz; their antenna is shit (that will get me thrown out of the "Signals Office") so they use this honking great ATU
[17:11] <DanielRichman> they attached an amateur radio; set it for 3.5MHz and the ATU (homebrew, by the look of it) starts sparking; one of the variable capacitors sparks between the plates
[17:11] <DanielRichman> was wondering why
[17:11] <DanielRichman> (sparks between the plates whenever you TX; no sparks on 5MHz)
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[17:12] <Randomskk> sparking presumably indicates high voltages exceeding dieletric/air breakdown?
[17:12] <edmoore> is the ATU actually working?
[17:12] <rharrison> Some one has changed the rates on the hourly
[17:12] <Randomskk> so perhaps surprise voltages from an inductor being switched somewhere
[17:12] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: too much work to do this weekend
[17:12] <edmoore> rharrison: yes it's gone back to the alien guys
[17:12] <rharrison> It looks better on 5up and down :)
[17:12] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, stuff your work; we're launching
[17:12] <edmoore> DanielRichman: you're landing in the sea!
[17:12] <DanielRichman> edmoore, the ATU seems to work; tweaking the dials does reduce/improve signal str
[17:13] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: i'd rather not fail my french oral thank you
[17:13] <edmoore> seriously, if you want to launch this weekend you need to start talking to me
[17:13] <Randomskk> pfft french oral
[17:13] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, we'll call up some french ppl when we near the coast on a radio and you can have a chat
[17:13] <Randomskk> though otoh it is useful for talking to french hams :P
[17:14] <DanielRichman> edmoore, it doesn't look likely based on WX and sbasuita
[17:14] <edmoore> fine
[17:14] <edmoore> give me a shout when you want to and we can talk logistics, helium and so on
[17:14] <DanielRichman> OK, cool
[17:14] <edmoore> assuming you want to launch from Churchill anyway
[17:14] <rharrison> Don't forget big ears weekend after next
[17:14] <edmoore> fun
[17:15] <rharrison> DanielRichman, how does one spew out uint16_t as two bytes in hex in C ?
[17:16] <Randomskk> sprintf is normally used
[17:16] <rharrison> sprintf ("%04X",crc) ?
[17:16] <Randomskk> char* mystring[128]; sprintf(mystring, "some text and also your %X hex\n", crc);
[17:16] <DanielRichman> %04X
[17:17] <Randomskk> what does just X do?
[17:17] <Randomskk> too many 0s?
[17:17] <DanielRichman> no 0 padding
[17:17] <DanielRichman> so if crc is 0x0002 you get message*2
[17:18] <rharrison> Humm I have bad code somewhere
[17:18] <Randomskk> so it does, 04 is better then
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[17:18] <Randomskk> also http://i.imgur.com/SFloI.jpg
[17:19] <rharrison> wtf iwoot
[17:20] <rharrison> Humm must dash
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[17:55] <edmoore> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/183959
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[18:31] <DanielRichman> edmoore, (resuming DAC conversation): farnell says that if I want a Dual in line 14bit+ DAC, it's £12; is this about right? (SMDs are much cheaper but I'm not sure I fancy soldering one)
[18:33] <DanielRichman> and indeed 16bit DACs appear to be cheaper than 14bit ones
[18:34] <jonsowman> edmoore: nice
[18:34] <jonsowman> how did the exam go today eh?
[18:34] <jonsowman> *ed
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[18:36] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: IIRC they are much cheaper on ebay
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DV-2MP-MINI-SPY-720x480-30-frame-DIGITAL-CAMERA-NEW-90_W0QQitemZ260589514319QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_AudioTVElectronics_Video_Camcorders?hash=item3cac586e4f
[18:40] <Randomskk> sparkfun are now listing LYPR540AH, three axis analogue gyro from ST, though preorder only atm
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> looks like the same one even
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> (the 2MP is a lie)
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[18:47] <DanielRichman> ooh, maxim free samples
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[19:02] <DanielRichman> digital to analogue converter: should I avoid an "internal reference", or should it be OK?
[19:02] <earthshine> http://vimeo.com/11100455
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> internal ref means you don't have to provide external ref
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> it's easier
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> however - I'd just use a couple of pots
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> and the internal
[19:04] <DanielRichman> gah, what on earth is a uMAX package
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> IIRC stupidly small
[19:06] <DanielRichman> only maxim internal reference dacs are 12bit
[19:06] <DanielRichman> how difficult is it to construct a good external reference for a DAC?
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> not very
[19:07] <DanielRichman> any more to it than potential-dividing my 5V regulated supply in half, for the 2-3V ref?
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> you'll want a cap
[19:08] <DanielRichman> doesn't sound too difficult
[19:08] Action: DanielRichman orders free samples
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> maxim also do reference chips
[19:09] Action: DanielRichman orders more free samples
[19:09] <DanielRichman> but after food; be back later
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> Unsure if they sample 1-wire stuff
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> wave
[19:09] <DanielRichman> \o
[19:11] <earthshine> O/
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[19:14] <earthshine> Orion 1 video link posted on the mailing list
[19:15] <jonsowman> earthshine: looks good :D
[19:17] <earthshine> thanks
[19:17] <sbasuita> earthshine: nice video :)
[19:21] <earthshine> ty
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[19:49] <DanielRichman> Should I sample a Shunt (2) or Series (3 pin) Voltage Reference Chip??
[19:49] <SpeedEvil> 3 pin tends to be more easy to use
[19:52] <DanielRichman> "Ideally, the reference's temperature coefficient should be less than 0.4ppm/°C to maintain 16-bit accuracy to within 1LSB "
[19:53] <DanielRichman> I can't find a Shunt below 25ppm/'C; http://para.maxim-ic.com/en/search.mvp?fam=volt_ref&605=2.5&270=Series&tree=master lowest for series is 1ppm
[19:53] <DanielRichman> non issue?
[19:53] <DanielRichman> Is it really necessary since the NTX2 slides all over the place with temperature?
[19:56] <DanielRichman> Grr; requires 8V+ input voltage; that's a pain
[19:59] <DanielRichman> Grr; all of the references in DIP packaging require 8V+ Vin
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> well - yes
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> on
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> NTX2 slides all over the place with temperature
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> For absolute accuracy, you only care about very, very rough
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> as you can compensate for most of it by tuning
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> on the reciever
[20:01] <DanielRichman> Is it worth me using a dedicated reference chip
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> you only care about relative accuracy
[20:02] <DanielRichman> I'll take that as a No :P
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure
[20:02] <DanielRichman> on a side note; what is a maxim "CDIP"?
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> ceramic DIP I think
[20:02] <DanielRichman> :O
[20:02] <DanielRichman> well I can get something with an easier Vin on CDIP
[20:02] <DanielRichman> so aslong as it's not some crazy MAXIM layout
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> I think there are some to92 ones, which are easy
[20:05] <DanielRichman> the DAC's "typical circuit" shows some caps etc. providing the reference; If I use a Maxim Reference chip I can just connect the reference out pin to the reference in pin, no fuss (providing I give the reference chip the one cap it needs)
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> yes
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[20:11] <DanielRichman> and (hopefully finally:) another typical circuit shows an op amp, a certain max 495, connected to the DAC out -> (+); output looped back into the op amp's (-), claiming that it therefore produces "unipolar output". Is this a necessary step or can I just connect the DAC output to the NTX2?
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[20:14] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: voltage buffer?
[20:15] <DanielRichman> the DAC claims to be voltage unbuffered
[20:15] <jonsowman> the input impedance of the ntx2 is quite high
[20:15] <jonsowman> the voltage buffer is probably a good idea
[20:16] <DanielRichman> voltage buffer being this OP-AMP?
[20:16] <jonsowman> yes
[20:16] <jonsowman> i think that's what you mean
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[20:16] <DanielRichman> all right. To make things easier; the MAX495 has been discontinued (!)
[20:16] <jonsowman> MAX494s will do
[20:16] <jonsowman> in fact any op amp that has rail-to-rail outputs
[20:17] <jonsowman> and inputs
[20:17] <jonsowman> I know the 494s work
[20:17] <jonsowman> you might get away with a CA3140 or something too
[20:17] <jonsowman> what are your rtty voltages?
[20:17] <DanielRichman> going to try domino
[20:17] <jonsowman> oh ok
[20:17] <jonsowman> what are the voltage rails?
[20:17] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, max494 is same product line as 495
[20:17] <DanielRichman> so will sample that
[20:18] <jonsowman> yup
[20:18] <jonsowman> i've got loads here if you just want me to post a couple
[20:18] <DanielRichman> no worries, I'm sampling a few chips anyway
[20:18] <jonsowman> okay
[20:18] <DanielRichman> hmm; a few op amps are going to go to waste :(
[20:19] <jonsowman> yeh theyre quads aren't they
[20:20] <jonsowman> if youve got an analogue sensors you can feed them through a voltage buffer before going into an ADC
[20:20] <DanielRichman> the 492 is a dual; will take up less space
[20:20] <jonsowman> it'll give you slightly nicer readings
[20:20] <DanielRichman> bah; I'll sample both
[20:20] <jonsowman> thats the way :)
[20:21] <DanielRichman> hmm. What is my expected annual usage?
[20:21] <jonsowman> 50,000+
[20:21] <jonsowman> :P
[20:21] <DanielRichman> clicking 1,000,000 is tempting
[20:21] <jonsowman> ha
[20:21] <DanielRichman> but probably means I'll be harassed by their sales team each day
[20:24] <jonsowman> i've ordered millions of things from them
[20:24] <jonsowman> don't get much spam
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[20:28] <DanielRichman> Do you claim to be a "Student" in the personal details or go for something a bit higher :P?
[20:28] <DanielRichman> ah I have to make up a company name anyway
[20:28] <DanielRichman> CEO it is
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[20:42] <DanielRichman> http://www.radiometrix.co.uk/products/433mhz.htm can all of these be used airborne?
[20:46] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: not sure
[20:46] <jonsowman> we're using a NiM2 on apexII
[20:46] <DanielRichman> and you know that's OK?
[20:46] <jonsowman> it's the same as the NTX2 just with a rxer in it too
[20:46] <DanielRichman> are you attempting an uplink?
[20:46] <jonsowman> yup :)
[20:47] <jonsowman> we had uplink on Apex I but this is different system
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[20:47] <DanielRichman> different frequency to ntx2
[20:48] <jonsowman> how dya mean?
[20:48] <DanielRichman> oh no it's not
[20:48] <DanielRichman> I could have sworn our ntx2 is 434.075
[20:48] <jonsowman> it is
[20:49] <DanielRichman> old model?
[20:49] <jonsowman> the nim2 can be had in .075 or .650 flavour
[20:49] <DanielRichman> ahh
[20:49] <jonsowman> as can the ntx2
[20:49] <DanielRichman> what's the difference between the NTR2 and the NiM2?
[20:50] <jonsowman> not very much by the looks of things
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280424579745&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:GB:1123 - the camera - someone I know has one of these - and has confirmed it's quite hackable.
[20:51] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, where did you buy the NiM2 from?
[20:51] <jonsowman> radiometrix directly
[20:51] <DanielRichman> eugh I have to email them
[20:51] <DanielRichman> or am I missing something; their site looks flat
[20:51] <jonsowman> email them
[20:51] <jonsowman> they give very hefy discounts to educational projects
[20:51] <jonsowman> so mention that it is such
[20:52] <DanielRichman> :o
[20:52] <DanielRichman> they mention samples (:P) but I guess they don't give away free stuff
[20:52] <jonsowman> we got 50% off IIRC
[20:52] <DanielRichman> do they require confirmation?
[20:52] <jonsowman> the order has to come from the school
[20:52] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: where did we get our ntx2 from?
[20:52] <jonsowman> they'll also ask permission to link to your project page from their website
[20:53] <DanielRichman> even more effort! It's impossible to get our school to do anything
[20:53] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, what does "from the school" count as?
[20:53] <sbasuita> oh right
[20:53] <sbasuita> we got one free from radiometrix
[20:53] <sbasuita> DanielRichman
[20:53] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: hang on let me find my emails from them
[20:54] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, yeah AlexBreton dropped the blagbomb
[20:54] <jonsowman> "The purchase order must originate from Sutton Grammar School"
[20:54] <jonsowman> "We need your Purchase order must be on Sutton Grammar school letterhead
[20:54] <jonsowman> and we will send the invoice to Sutton Grammar School."
[20:55] <DanielRichman> oh my days; the school administration is hopeless. I'll try :P
[20:55] <jonsowman> mind you if you got one free before, you could just put "this is part of the same project"
[20:56] <jonsowman> you might get away with that
[20:56] <DanielRichman> I'll ask Alex to dig through his emails
[21:05] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, what was the ££ (full?) of the NiM2 compared to the NTX2?
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[21:06] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: 2 secs
[21:06] <jonsowman> £36 each
[21:06] <jonsowman> roughloy
[21:06] <jonsowman> *roughly
[21:07] <jonsowman> we got them for £18.45 each
[21:07] <DanielRichman> OK
[21:17] <DanielRichman> Intermediate Practical Assessment!: 10e.1 Construct a simple amateur radio related project. What qualifies as related/what have Intermediees done in the past?
[21:18] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: almost anything as far as I can tell
[21:18] <jonsowman> grab a maplin project kit and solder it up
[21:18] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, what did you do?
[21:18] <DanielRichman> that's not radio related?
[21:18] <jonsowman> I didnt - I dont have a radio license
[21:18] <jonsowman> yet
[21:18] <jonsowman> well, maybe an amplifier or a small FM radio kit
[21:19] <DanielRichman> audio amplifier seems to be on the list of suggestions
[21:19] <jonsowman> yeh thats a simple one
[21:19] <jonsowman> build one from scratch if you like
[21:19] <jonsowman> but maplin kits are acceptable afaik
[21:19] <DanielRichman> 3.5mm socket + Op Amp + battery & speaker?
[21:20] <jonsowman> thats pretty much what an audio amp amounts to
[21:20] <jonsowman> + passives
[21:20] <DanielRichman> indeed; OK
[21:20] <DanielRichman> Perhaps I can grab a few quad op amp chips to make an audio strength meter
[21:20] <jonsowman> yup
[21:20] <jonsowman> good use for those 494s
[21:21] <DanielRichman> nooo these 494s are quality; there's a tray full of quad op amps in Tech, I believe
[21:21] <jonsowman> ah ok :)
[21:21] <DanielRichman> :P
[21:22] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: you could probably just show off alien electrionics
[21:23] <Randomskk> for correct spellings of electronics
[21:23] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, the RADARC guys don't take that kinda stuff
[21:23] <Randomskk> I just showed the guy my arm breakout board I made, not even radio related though as I later discovered PWMing a wire at 36mhz lets you do cw
[21:23] <Randomskk> sucks
[21:23] <Randomskk> in which case yea, a maplin audio amp would be more than sufficient really, or make something yourself
[21:23] <DanielRichman> I'll do an amp & str meter on stripboard; all the equipment is on site since the RADARC guys visit every Tues to run G4RSC's foundation course
[21:24] <Randomskk> sounds reasonable
[21:24] <Randomskk> the main point is to show that you can solder
[21:24] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: i can just copy you with my rudimentary soldering skills ;P
[21:24] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, we'll give you a crash course in soldering
[21:24] <Randomskk> it's not about design or understanding electronics, just about soldering yourself
[21:24] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: year 7 style solder-balls
[21:24] <Randomskk> and I guess putting the right part in the right place
[21:24] <DanielRichman> nooooooooo
[21:25] <Randomskk> proving you are capable of assembling a kit radio basically
[21:25] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, what you have to do is make a massive solder ball, then roll it off the bench so it smacks into the ground as it dries
[21:25] <DanielRichman> makes a solder splat
[21:25] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, OK
[21:25] <jonsowman> ah solder splats
[21:25] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: no, everybody knows all the rebels melt holes in the plastic stools
[21:25] <jonsowman> many a DT lesson spent making those
[21:26] <DanielRichman> :P
[21:26] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, don't do that, it stinks; very nasty fumes
[21:26] <DanielRichman> even worse than the Year 8s forgetting to open the windows when they're all soldering
[21:27] <DanielRichman> I wonder what happens if you roll multiple solderballs off onto the floor and pile solder splats ontop of each other
[21:27] <Randomskk> jonsowman have you seen mikemc's launch video
[21:27] <DanielRichman> I saw that, it's a great video
[21:27] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yum
[21:27] <jonsowman> *yup
[21:27] <jonsowman> not yum
[21:27] <Randomskk> haha
[21:27] <Randomskk> yes
[21:28] <Randomskk> very nicely edited too
[21:28] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, we'll force Alex to man the video camera no?
[21:28] <jonsowman> very
[21:28] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: er... just leave it running in the corner whilst we faff about
[21:28] <Randomskk> eh if you can get someone to video that'd be cooler :P
[21:28] <sbasuita> Randomskk: thanks for volunteering :D
[21:28] <Randomskk> ha ha :P
[21:29] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, also physics department's autoaiming telescope is going to be deployed probably at or near half term june; t^2 was dubious as to whether we'd be able to have it aim at the payload as it flies but appeared willing to try
[21:29] <Randomskk> depending on when you launch hopefully I'll be around though
[21:29] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: what is t^2???
[21:29] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, terry tucker
[21:29] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: also i mentioned it to mr. patel: "sir, won't there be tonnes of light pollution" "yeah its a complete waste of money"
[21:29] <DanielRichman> He's always negative
[21:29] <DanielRichman> but haha.
[21:30] <DanielRichman> I thought he was "head of Physics"; can't he veto?
[21:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: no idea
[21:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: i doubt he's hed
[21:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: he's quite junior no?
[21:30] <DanielRichman> yes. But I heard lots of weird trash going around
[21:31] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, also RSGB approved the school as an exam site so can do everything there now
[21:31] <fsphil> you lucky people
[21:31] <Randomskk> hah, shame mikemc's video doesn't get the football players getting attacked
[21:31] <Randomskk> apparently I can moderate radio exams? :o
[21:31] <sbasuita> Randomskk: it does
[21:31] <sbasuita> Randomskk: the one i saw at least on vimeo
[21:31] <Randomskk> sbasuita: not really
[21:32] <Randomskk> it has the first launch
[21:32] <sbasuita> Randomskk: oh, does it barge in to them?
[21:32] <Randomskk> but focuses on the balloon not the payload
[21:32] <fsphil> it doesn't show the payload-eye view
[21:32] <Randomskk> or payload level at any rate
[21:32] <Randomskk> sbasuita: it does very nearly hit several of them
[21:32] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I might go for the intermediate on may 10
[21:33] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: how much stuff is there to do/learn?
[21:33] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, what were you getting on hamtests?
[21:34] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I'll bring in my Intermediate NOW book tomorrow; I still need it I think but you can look through
[21:34] <Randomskk> intermediate doesn't have that much to actually memorise either does it?
[21:34] <fsphil> it's a pretty decent book that
[21:34] <fsphil> much better than the little foundation now book .. er.. leaflet
[21:34] <DanielRichman> http://www.commsfoundation.org/rce/pdf/intermediatesyllabus.pdf
[21:35] <fsphil> tho to be fair, there ain't much to know for the foundation
[21:35] <sbasuita> gah
[21:35] <sbasuita> why does hamtets require some login
[21:35] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: send yours please
[21:36] <fsphil> they record your scores
[21:36] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, you're not having my login
[21:42] <fsphil> would hydrogen escape from a balloon quicker than helium?
[21:46] <russss> apparently not
[21:46] <russss> although I don't understand why
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[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:48] <LazyLeopard> I think hydrogen, going around in pairs, is a slightly bigger molecule than Helium, which goes around solo...
[21:48] <russss> yeah, that just struck me
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> H2=2 protons, 2 electrons
[21:48] <russss> I think that makes it quite significantly bigger actually
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> He: 2p,2n, 2 e
[21:50] Nick change: N900evil_ -> N900evil
[21:50] <russss> He is 0.49 angstroms in diameter, H2 is 0.74
[21:50] <fsphil> ah
[21:50] <russss> SCIENCE
[21:50] <fsphil> it works!
[21:51] <fsphil> so hydrogen gas is normally H2
[21:51] <russss> yep
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[21:52] <fsphil> that makes perfect sense now, thanks guys
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[21:52] <jcoxon> evening all
[21:52] <jcoxon> ping rjharrison
[21:54] <fsphil> hiya jcoxon
[21:54] <jcoxon> PBH launch about to occur
[21:54] <jcoxon> long duration + ballast
[21:54] <fsphil> sweet
[21:54] <jcoxon> followed by normal latex = planning to do interballoon comms
[21:55] <russss> interballoon comms? is that just for bragging rights?
[21:55] <DanielRichman> CATCE form asks for "Date passed Foundation License": should I use the Date of Examination (RSGB) or the Date of License Issue by OFCOM? (about 3 days apart)
[21:55] <russss> you could have a chain of balloons
[21:55] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, date of exam then
[21:55] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I'm not sure if I will do intermediate on 10th of May yet but want to fill out a CATCE form + cheque so that if I do decide to I won't accidentally the deadline
[21:55] <jcoxon> russss, i think everything they do is for bragging rights
[21:55] <DanielRichman> so will have a form in my bag
[21:55] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, OK
[21:55] <russss> and pass messages between them using VHF
[21:55] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, well you 'passed' on that day
[21:55] <russss> expensive business though
[21:55] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: what is the fee?
[21:56] <jcoxon> its just that you had to wait for a few days for hte ofcom admin
[21:56] <fsphil> very expensive .. I mean, all of this is gonna be ditched in the atlantic
[21:56] <fsphil> madness
[21:56] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, uhm
[21:57] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, £27.50 as far as I can tell (http://www.rsgb.org/tutors/)
[21:58] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: what notice do we have to give to take the exam on the 10th?
[21:59] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, RSGB wants 10 days notice but we'd need to submit catce forms with all of the others
[21:59] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: when is that
[21:59] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I don't know
[21:59] <DanielRichman> actually
[21:59] <DanielRichman> late entries are allowed but the instructors get embarrassed
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[22:00] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, ten days notice is May 1st; meeting on 27th; Dr Pike is going to a RADARC meeting tomorrow so we can give stuff for him to hand onto G3NGX then if required; but that's quite short notice
[22:00] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, if you want email G3NGX
[22:01] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: not sure
[22:02] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, that's why I'm filling out a CATCE and keeping it on hold in my bag
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[22:16] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: what practicals do you have to do
[22:17] <DanielRichman> I will list them
[22:18] <DanielRichman> 10d.1: Measure the resistance of a number of different resistors and confirm their values using the colour code (note order).
[22:18] <DanielRichman> 10d.2 Demonstrate the ability to make good soldered joints.
[22:18] <DanielRichman> 10d.3 Construct a simple circuit containing a battery, resistor LED, lamp and switch. (doesn't appear to need soldering; ie. croc clips gogogo)
[22:18] <DanielRichman> 10d.4 Measure voltages and currents in a simple circuit
[22:19] <DanielRichman> 10d.5 Demonstrate that a diode will only conduct in one direction in a simple DC circuit.
[22:19] <DanielRichman> 10d.6 Demonstrate that a transistor can be used as a switch in a simple DC circuit.
[22:19] <DanielRichman> 10d.7 Fit a suitable RF connector (PL259, BNC or N-type) to a piece of coaxial cable.
[22:19] <DanielRichman> 10d.8 Fit a 13A plug to a piece of 3 core mains cable.
[22:20] <DanielRichman> 10e.1 Construct a simple amateur radio related project (eg. direct conversion receiver, crystal calibrator, 'grid' dip meter, ATU & SWR meter, Morse oscillator, audio amplifier) either from a pre-prepared kit or from a published or personal design. Construction may be carried out either within a course or elsewhere but the assessor _must be satisfied_ that the bulk of the work is that of the candidate. (emp added)
[22:21] <DanielRichman> 10f.1 Calibrate a variable frequency oscillator (VFO) employing an adjustable LC circuit. Calibration to show the relevant amateur band edges. The vfo may form part of the project to satisfy 10e.1, or be part of a previously constructed project or provided by the assessor.
[22:21] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, EOF.
[22:22] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: pretty easy then
[22:22] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, yaya; though I have no idea what 10f.1 entails
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[22:24] <natrium42> is alex back from vacation?
[22:24] <DanielRichman> :D yes
[22:24] <DanielRichman> I'll invite him in here if you want to crucify him
[22:24] <natrium42> about damn time
[22:24] <natrium42> lol
[22:24] <natrium42> did he get sun tan?
[22:24] <DanielRichman> Dunno; didn't pay much attention, sbasuita ?
[22:24] <sbasuita> http://picasaweb.google.com/pbhdata/ProjectBlueHorizon02#5453029216782363490
[22:24] <sbasuita> scary ;P
[22:25] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: not really
[22:25] <DanielRichman> lucky he was going by car though; some pupils are still stuck in Amsterdam etc.
[22:25] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: nah richard is back :)
[22:25] <DanielRichman> wait, what!?
[22:25] <DanielRichman> when!
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[22:28] <jcoxon> natrium42, going to try and track pbh-11?
[22:30] <natrium42> when are they launching?
[22:30] <jcoxon> asap
[22:30] <jcoxon> http://twitter.com/PBH3
[22:31] <natrium42> ah
[22:31] <natrium42> maybe i will have a listen later
[22:31] <natrium42> very busy with course projects lately
[22:31] <jcoxon> fair enough
[22:31] <jcoxon> same
[22:31] <jcoxon> was in the hospital today for 12hrs
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[22:33] <sbasuita> jcoxon: you're training as a medic right? does that mean you're the guy who comes to my house in an ambulance?
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[22:33] <jcoxon> sbasuita, you mean a paramedic?
[22:34] <sbasuita> jcoxon: uhh, i'm asking you ;P
[22:35] <jcoxon> nope thats not what i'll be when i qualify
[22:35] <jcoxon> that burns you know
[22:35] <jcoxon> :-p
[22:35] <sbasuita> jcoxon: that comment burns paramedics
[22:35] <sbasuita> but i didn't mean to offend ;)
[22:36] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:36] <natrium42> i don't think paramedics are medical doctors
[22:36] <natrium42> at least not usually
[22:36] <sbasuita> jcoxon: so you're training to be?
[22:36] <jcoxon> natrium42, they aren't
[22:36] <jcoxon> on 1/7/10 if all goes to plan i'll be a Dr
[22:36] <sbasuita> whoa nice
[22:37] <jcoxon> so Ba(Hons) and MBBS
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> hey jcoxon and natrium42
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> and sbasuita
[22:38] <sbasuita> o/ Lunar_Lander
[22:38] <natrium42> hi Lunar_Lander
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> what's your opinion on flight enumberation?
[22:41] <fsphil> you guys gonna be plotting phb on the tracker again?
[22:44] <SpeedEvil1> jcoxon: Good luck! Random question - I'm trying to work out the calorific cost of laying down muscle - but I get 0 hits on musculogenesis - which I thought would be the term I'd need to find it in journals. Any thoughts on correct terminology?
[22:44] <jcoxon> fsphil, i don't think so - it was quite a bit of effort to tell the truth - their format doesn't really help and decoding CW is best done by ear
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[22:45] <SpeedEvil1> machine CW should be quite amenable to decoding I'd have thought
[22:45] <SpeedEvil1> hmm
[22:45] <SpeedEvil1> Can't think of any obvious way other than to throw a maximal likelyhood thingy at it
[22:46] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil1, in reality all the cw decoders i've tried have been terrible in comparison to the ear
[22:46] <jcoxon> and a very experience ham
[22:46] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil1, partially why you haven't got a link for musclogensis is that it doesn't really occur
[22:47] <SpeedEvil1> oh - yeah - I read that in passing
[22:47] <SpeedEvil1> I hadn't absorbed it
[22:47] <jcoxon> you don't lay down more muscle - the current muscle just gets bigger
[22:47] <SpeedEvil1> Hmm, so I'm searching for something slightly different.
[22:47] <SpeedEvil1> Thanks!
[22:47] <jcoxon> np
[22:47] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> hi SpeedEvil1
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> That explains why all the hits I was getting are from the early embryonic stage :)
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[22:50] <jcoxon> exactly
[22:50] <jcoxon> :-)
[22:50] Action: SpeedEvil ponders helium for weight-loss.
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Is the remaining work you've to do 'tick-boxes' or huge final exam that you can utterly fail?
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> oh - 3 months
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> I misread that
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> well - 2 - presumably gotta be lots of fairly substantive then.
[22:53] <jcoxon> ummm i've got 2x3hr exams on general medicine and surgery and then a 3hr practical exam
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> Good luck again then.
[22:53] <jcoxon> yeah i could fail
[22:54] <natrium42> don't say that!
[22:54] <jcoxon> but hopefully i've absorbed enough knowledge over the past 6 years (when HAB hasn't been distracting me)
[22:54] <jcoxon> :-p
[22:54] <natrium42> :)
[22:57] <jcoxon> earthshine, good video :-)
[22:57] <jcoxon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgve80XmrXA
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon did I tell you of the LHe?
[22:59] <earthshine> ty
[22:59] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, yup
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> I contacted the peruans again
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> I hope there can be a cooperation too
[23:01] <jcoxon> cool
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> and for the chemical stuff I wrote to Denmark
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> and a descendant of James Glaisher contacted me
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> that was the biggest surprise
[23:12] <jcoxon> grrr watching the orion 1 launch makes me want to launch
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[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, what do you think about flight enumberationß
[23:15] <jcoxon> as in the numbers for each flight?
[23:15] <jcoxon> enumberation isn't a commenly used english word
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea, I thought like "Stratosfaira Osnabrück Balloon"
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> would be SOB-1
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> but SOB also has bad meanings
[23:16] <jcoxon> hehe to me that means Short Of Breath
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:17] <jiffe1> jcoxon: medical background?
[23:17] <jcoxon> indeed
[23:18] <jiffe1> cool
[23:18] <stilldavid> that video reminds me, why is there always so much line between the balloon/parachute/payload?
[23:18] <jcoxon> stilldavid, its to do with oscilations
[23:19] <stilldavid> stays a bit more steady in flight?
[23:19] <jcoxon> thats the theory
[23:19] Action: stilldavid takes notes
[23:19] <jcoxon> you've got lots of space so stick on a long line
[23:19] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, hmmm its a tough one
[23:20] <jcoxon> how about Stratos-1
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> that sounds good :)
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> thanks!
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[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> the professor who gives me the He is quite interested in the project
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> he agrees that we should try to get the GPS transmitting via the beacon
[23:44] <jcoxon> oh yes, thats key]
[23:44] <jcoxon> right time for bed
[23:44] <jcoxon> night all
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[23:58] <edmoore> earthshine: excellent video
[23:58] <edmoore> really nicely edited
[00:00] --- Thu Apr 22 2010