highaltitude.log.20100420

[00:01] <Laurenceb> http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11030&Product_Name=Alpha_Type_2_Piston_Stirling_Engine
[00:01] <Laurenceb> thats nice as well
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[00:04] <Randomskk> sbasuita: do you have all the cool irssi scripts
[00:04] <sbasuita> Randomskk: just d/led window list
[00:04] <Randomskk> adv_windowlist, mouse, nickcolor, screen_away, spell, trackbar, trigger, uptime, usercount
[00:04] <Randomskk> .pl
[00:04] <sbasuita> Randomskk: cheers
[00:04] <Randomskk> trigger is only marginally useful
[00:04] <Randomskk> there are of course others
[00:05] <Randomskk> of those the first six are super duper useful
[00:05] <Randomskk> or at least I find nickcolor really useful
[00:05] <sbasuita> yeah nick colours is a must have
[00:05] <sbasuita> for any group chat
[00:05] <Randomskk> yea
[00:12] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/pwfO3.png
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[00:12] <Laurenceb> ^ thats what I'm thinking with the IMU design
[00:13] <Laurenceb> using the ITG-3200 as a 1.8v supply for the LSM303
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[00:18] <Laurenceb> probably a 100 ohm resistor and two 10uf caps
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[02:03] <rjharrison> .
[02:03] <juxta> morning Rob
[02:03] <rjharrison> Just woken up
[02:03] <rjharrison> heh 2.03 here
[02:03] <juxta> ah hah, I was right for once then, it is the morning ;p
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[05:42] <adwiens> hi
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[07:26] <earthshine> morning
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[09:50] <rharrison> I all I need some collective help here. I have made up a check list for launches and would welcome any input if any onle else has such lists or advice. http://www.robertharrison.org/icarus/wordpress/28/launch-check-list/
[09:58] Action: SpeedEvil looks
[09:59] <SpeedEvil> I would add maybe another step - 'a week before'... - check your software for common errors. For example, lat/lon boundary errors, what happens if GPS loses signal, ...
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> also - charge or use new batteries
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> weights to do free lift?
[10:04] <SpeedEvil> operational has one p
[10:04] <SpeedEvil> othe than that, looks ok
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> I'd add some sort of warm gloves for winter launches
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> maybe a large umbrella if it's intermittently raining?
[10:07] <SpeedEvil> oh - bateries are seperately mentioned
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[10:34] <rharrison> SpeedEvil, some great points there I'll put them in
[10:38] <SpeedEvil> a simple card with contact info, if randoms wander up?
[10:39] <rharrison> Another good idea I currently pack a huge (A1) pic to show people who come up but som business cards would be most cool too
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[10:46] <wolle-> greetings
[10:47] <rharrison> hi wolle-
[10:47] <wolle-> hey robert
[10:47] <wolle-> cool at irc, that awsome
[10:47] <rharrison> You will find alot of helpful people on here
[10:47] <wolle-> very good
[10:47] <wolle-> Thats very good, thank you
[10:47] <rharrison> As you can see we're quite active
[10:47] <wolle-> saw it on your response time :)
[10:48] <rharrison> We cover most of the world in this group
[10:48] <wolle-> wow
[10:48] <wolle-> thats the answer!
[10:48] <wolle-> searched for something like that
[10:48] <wolle-> hey people im wolle from germany!!
[10:49] <wolle-> robert
[10:49] <rharrison> SpeedEvil, may know if there are others on here from Germany. I'm sure there used to be a pilot on here a while back
[10:49] <wolle-> i wrote to the balloon company you have on ur page
[10:50] <rharrison> Cool I'm sure they will get back to you
[10:50] <wolle-> ah here in my firm 3 other ppl love this project, too
[10:50] <wolle-> Yes they answered yet
[10:50] <SpeedEvil> dunno any other germans
[10:50] <wolle-> but they ask how big the ballon have to be and much other things
[10:50] <rharrison> Cool what does your firm do?
[10:50] <wolle-> Did you tried much sizes?
[10:50] <wolle-> IT
[10:50] <rharrison> 1500 and 3000g ones
[10:50] <wolle-> i work in i it firm
[10:51] <rharrison> 1500 are fine for most launches
[10:51] <wolle-> and for wich u need the 3000g?
[10:51] <rharrison> wolle-, cool like me
[10:51] <russss> I think Lunar_Lander is german
[10:51] <wolle-> ah nice :) you see same interesst :P
[10:51] <wolle-> the g means gallone?
[10:51] <rharrison> well they are expensive but perhaps if you want to get higher!
[10:51] <wolle-> or what means it
[10:52] <rharrison> grams
[10:52] <rharrison> as in kilograms
[10:52] <wolle-> okay i was wondering
[10:52] <wolle-> Mh other question, the 1500g how high did u get with it?
[10:52] <wolle-> the pics over the sky are also with this one or with the 3000 then?
[10:53] <rharrison> I'm going to have to do a little bit of work for a while but I will be on later. I'm sure others will answer some questions the 1500 will get to 35km
[10:53] <rharrison> 1500 for all my pics sofar
[10:53] <wolle-> oh yeah of course i have to work to
[10:53] <rharrison> This is more fun than work
[10:53] <wolle-> Would like to not disturb
[10:53] <wolle-> shure!!!
[10:53] <wolle-> thats it
[10:54] <wolle-> i love photos, i am a fotodesigner too
[10:54] <wolle-> and thats a point i say: wow
[10:54] <rharrison> Cool well you will get some spectacular pics from the balloon but make sure you talk to air traffic control
[10:55] <rharrison> You need to get permission before you launch :)
[10:55] <rharrison> Right I'm on with some work :(
[10:55] <wolle-> Yes we talked about that. We didnt know if we have to do that or not becouse we dont know how big it have to be to talk with them
[10:55] <wolle-> thats good.
[10:56] <rharrison> I think you will need to talk to them and get some permission in place
[10:56] <wolle-> Robert i dont want to disturb you at work now.
[10:56] <wolle-> yeah think so, too
[10:58] <wolle-> But I'll still bring in experience. Thus a call to help as much.
[10:58] <wolle-> Until I'm ready, it takes a bit
[10:58] <wolle-> Just performing the design and build.
[11:04] <wolle-> oh hey the company is very very fast
[11:04] <wolle-> robert on your page the german news arent listet (:
[11:04] <wolle-> In the German news you were too.
[11:04] <wolle-> laugh :P
[11:04] <wolle-> not bad
[11:05] <SpeedEvil> He has recently had way too much publicity. :)
[11:06] <wolle-> Hey speed
[11:06] <wolle-> yes
[11:07] <wolle-> SpeedEvil where do you come from?
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> Fife, Scotland.
[11:07] <wolle-> scotland
[11:07] <wolle-> good
[11:07] <wolle-> It often rain there? :)
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[11:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=56.216&lon=-3.109&zoom=10&layers=B000FTF
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> Fairly often.
[11:09] <wolle-> Speed do you also get pictures out of the sky?
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> No, I haven't launched any balloons.
[11:09] <wolle-> ok
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4259431966/
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> though I do have sky.
[11:10] <wolle-> :D
[11:10] <wolle-> dito
[11:10] <wolle-> i have sky too, mom
[11:13] <wolle-> http://www.wolle-foto.de/files/bennyaxt.jpg
[11:13] <wolle-> here also
[11:14] <wolle-> my aggro little brother
[11:14] <wolle-> with sky
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> I need to get some balloons launched - but stuff gets in the way.
[11:16] <wolle-> stuff of your job?
[11:17] <wolle-> at my live much stuff got in the way. But i try to finish things now.
[11:18] <GW8RAK> FYI - there is someone on ebay with a number of GSM modems, Siemens TC35i. chembrow of this group was saying that they are quite easy to interface to last night.
[11:18] <GW8RAK> Ideal if you want to send yourself a text message from your landing position.
[11:19] <GW8RAK> No connection with the seller so don't know if they are a bargain, but at £13.49 delivered, not too expensive.
[11:21] <wolle-> send a text message to where?
[11:21] <wolle-> to the handy or?
[11:21] <wolle-> btw hi GW8RAK
[11:21] <GW8RAK> Hi Wolle, back to your mobile phone. It could be more reliable than a low power transmitter sitting in the grass.
[11:22] <GW8RAK> Both have advantages, but if one doesn't work, it could be an extra backup.
[11:22] <wolle-> do you have a articlenumber for ebay?
[11:22] <wolle-> yes of course, a good idea
[11:22] <GW8RAK> ebay 150435000600
[11:23] <wolle-> i am at work, so i can look at this at home first - thank you i will mail it to me
[11:23] <wolle-> for that price it seems ok
[11:23] <wolle-> :)
[11:23] <wolle-> a sms with the position, not bad
[11:24] <GW8RAK> I wasn't thinking about an sms message, but discussions and reading other information, suggests that it should not be difficult to do.
[11:24] <wolle-> yes
[11:25] <wolle-> i understand like this but i thought about a sms too
[11:25] <wolle-> oh okay have break now at work be back later then!
[11:26] <GW8RAK> coffee time finished here as well. back to work
[11:26] <wolle-> i have now coffee time :P
[11:26] <wolle-> anyone know how high 800g ballons will fly?
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> All the balloons listed will go above 30km with some payload
[11:29] <wolle-> good
[11:30] <wolle-> ok thanks, now coffee
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[11:39] <Futurity> Hi
[11:40] <Futurity> rharrison: the 3x Launch videos are no on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/futuritymmx
[11:40] <Futurity> 720 is the max resolution
[11:40] <rharrison> Cool I'll have a quick look now #:)
[11:41] <Futurity> there is the launch, the burst and me being electricuted ;)
[11:44] <rharrison> Futurity, thanks for putting in the electricution it's quite funny the way you describe it as static :)
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[11:45] <rharrison> I'm just wiping the tears from my eyes
[11:49] <Futurity> yep
[11:49] <Futurity> i didn't see the battery
[11:50] <Futurity> so just assumed it was static
[11:50] <Futurity> lol
[11:50] <Futurity> Glad everyone enjoyed the electricution video
[11:50] <Futurity> ;)
[11:54] <Futurity> btw i now have a 12 element UHF aerial. Hopefully it'll make my reception better. Saying this, due to the line of sight, i had no problem usign the mobile whip aerial on Saturday
[12:01] <LazyLeopard> <pedant> It ain't "electrocution" if you live to tell the tale. ;) ;) </pedant>
[12:03] <LazyLeopard> I've a 10-element 70cms yagi, and it had no trouble following the payload from Orpington, at least while the payload was over 1500 metres altitude.
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[12:28] <wolle-> Oh a youtube link
[12:29] <wolle-> damn at work youtube is locked (:
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[12:50] <Futurity> LazyLeopard: cool to know the 12 element will work well
[12:52] <Futurity> LazyLeopard: Do you have a motor drive on that, or is it something you manually point at the balloon?
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[12:59] <LazyLeopard> Just pointed by hand. It sits on the top of a 4-metre tripod outside my window, and I poke it with a stick as needed...
[13:00] <LazyLeopard> A nice smooth alt-az bearing would make the job easier, especially if some elevation's needed, but at this sort of distance there's not much need for it.
[13:01] <LazyLeopard> PL-259s are pigs to solder...
[13:01] Action: LazyLeopard throws another one in the bin.
[13:01] <Futurity> lol, soulds like a good setup
[13:01] <Futurity> i was considering using a tripod as well
[13:02] <Futurity> this Yagi has thick coax
[13:02] <Futurity> good, but thick and a right pain as you say to solder a PL-259 onto
[13:03] <Futurity> i used the screw thread over the white plastic and bend back sheild to get a good conntection, then soldered the bits of shield which stuch out past the plug
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[13:03] <Futurity> not as good as soldering through those two holes you get just behind the centre pin, but they aer a right pain to solder to
[13:04] <GW8RAK> There are better designs of pl259 than the "solder through the two holes" designs. These inevitably end up with dry joints and a poor antenna
[13:05] <Futurity> Do you think i'd get a good enough shield connection just by screwing the pluc onto the bent back sheild copper?
[13:06] <Futurity> thye centre pin is soldered
[13:06] <Futurity> *the
[13:06] <GW8RAK> PL259 with pressure sleeve gland entry. £3 from Westlake electronics.
[13:07] <GW8RAK> these use a liner which fits inside the shield and makes contact with the body. A gland behind prevents water ingress
[13:09] <LazyLeopard> Chrome plating really doesn't help the solderability...
[13:10] <GW8RAK> I spent a long time one session making up 10 patch leads with cheap pl259's and ended up throwing them away in frustration.
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[13:12] <Futurity> i may well have to cut off the end and try again
[13:12] <Futurity> it's hopefully better than a whip aerial
[13:13] <Futurity> i'll have to give is a proper test on the next launch
[13:13] <GW8RAK> Remember that at 70cms you need good quality coax, particularly ifyou are using long aerial runs
[13:13] <Futurity> LazyLeopard: whats the furtherest you've been able to pick up a balloon?
[13:15] <LazyLeopard> I've only tracked Cambridge/EARS launches successfully so far.
[13:16] <Futurity> do you know if a metal tripod will interfere with the yagi's receiption?
[13:16] <Futurity> i take it you have it mounted at the balance point?
[13:17] <GW8RAK> If the yagi is mounted on a metal pole through it's balance point, it is best to have the elements at right angles to that pole.
[13:18] <GW8RAK> There is still some interaction, but less than having them in the same plane. Unfortunately, the balloon antenna is vertically polarised, so it makes things worse.
[13:21] <Futurity> oh yes, didn't think of that
[13:21] <Futurity> and repeaters are also vertical
[13:21] <Futurity> hmm so need to mount it behind the reflector elements i guess, although i've no idea how far behind it
[13:21] <LazyLeopard> The metal pole didn't cause too much trouble last Saturday, but the range wasn't much over 150kms. I may contrive a non-conductive extension using a bit of drain pipe. My first pole was entirely made of plastic drainpike, and worked well.
[13:22] <wolle-> wich gps module is good for atmel?
[13:22] <wolle-> is there a specific?
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[13:23] <GW8RAK> I was just trying to google a solution I came across a few years ago. If the tx and rx aerials are at 90 degrees, there is a theoretical 20dB loss of signal, but at 45 degrees, there is only a 3dB loss. So mounting your rx aerial at 45 will give best performance without detuning by the support pole.
[13:23] <GW8RAK> But I don't know how much the support pole affects it. Will continue googling.
[13:24] <juxta> one easy fix is to extend the back of the beam with something non-conductive, and mount to the tripod using that non-conductive beam
[13:24] <juxta> with a bit of counterweight if needed
[13:25] <GW8RAK> Sometimes the simplest solutions are so easy as to be overlooked. Doh.
[13:26] <juxta> agreed for sure :)
[13:28] <GW8RAK> There are shorter and more convenient aerials than yagis. I want to scale a moxon aerial fro 434MHz and it should be less than A4 size and significant gain.
[13:36] <wolle-> mh
[13:44] <LazyLeopard> Yagi on a drain pipe pole: http://gallery.orpington-astronomy.org.uk/albums/userpics/10004/normal_RiUk10_3539.jpg
[13:50] Action: LazyLeopard thinks quadrifiliar helical antennae look cool... ;)
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[13:58] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:59] <LazyLeopard> Whether they're any use, of course, is another matter. ;)
[13:59] <LazyLeopard> But I'll have to make at least one one of these days just because.
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[14:18] <Futurity> That's a cool picture
[14:18] <Futurity> and i have the gazibo base already as well ;)
[14:22] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[14:22] <LazyLeopard> Right. I must away...
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[14:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98/Jul/gazebo.html
[14:30] <Randomskk> :D we made a little compressed air powered single cylinder engine in the workshop skills thing
[14:30] <Randomskk> http://twitpic.com/1h0xwr
[14:31] Action: SpeedEvil passes Randomskk a spark plug.
[14:32] <Randomskk> :P
[14:32] <Randomskk> I don't think feeding it petrol would be a great idea
[14:32] <jonsowman> certainly not without the addition of loctite
[14:33] <Randomskk> haha
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[14:54] <juxta> hey rharrison, are you about?
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[15:00] <juxta> on an unrelated matter... anybody have any idea why I keep getting unsubscribed from the UKHAS mailing list? :(
[15:00] <juxta> or maybe not unsubscribed, but I never get any mail!
[15:23] <wolle-> mh i dont know i just here since today
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[15:28] <wolle-> see you later all
[15:28] <wolle-> be back then
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[15:32] <juxta> ugh, it was a broken postfix rule, hurrah
[15:32] <juxta> procmail, rather
[15:42] <rharrison> Am now juxta
[15:42] <juxta> hey rharrison
[15:43] <juxta> do you have a minute?
[15:43] <rharrison> Sure
[15:43] <juxta> was just going to ask if you had any of your chdk scripts up anywhere :)
[15:43] <rharrison> aahh I did promise but forgot
[15:43] <rharrison> Will set a reminder in myp phone
[15:44] <juxta> haha, no worries, it's no great urgency
[15:47] <rharrison> it's about 15 lines of badly written code
[15:48] <juxta> haha - I'm just poking around the CHDK site at the moment getting my head around the scripting
[15:49] <juxta> do you use automatic exposure & focus in your script Rob? I was thinking it would be wise to just set focus to infinity if possible, I dont know how much control the scripts give you
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[15:54] <juxta> also, rharrison, do you happen to know roughly how many shots an a560 can get off before the batteries die?
[15:54] <juxta> (on a set of lithiums)
[15:55] <rharrison> about 10hours of 2min vid 8 pics and 3 min sleep (cycle)
[15:56] <juxta> nice, plenty then
[15:56] <juxta> what size SD cards do you use? I have a bunch of 2gb's here, as my last cameras maxed out at 2gb
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[16:26] <rharrison> 16gb junderwood
[16:26] <rharrison> 16 gb juxta
[16:26] <juxta> cheers rharrison
[16:27] <juxta> looks like CHDK needs a bit of fiddling for >4GB cards
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[16:38] <rharrison> juxta, you just need to fdisk a partion
[16:38] <rharrison> juxta, I have some help for you
[16:38] <juxta> I had a quick look on their wiki, it mentioned seeing the FAQ
[16:39] <juxta> which didn't mention much in the way of SD cards greater than 4GB
[16:39] <rharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/icarus/wordpress/hardware/icarus-payload-hardware-setup-guide/
[16:39] <juxta> help howso rharrison?
[16:39] <juxta> ooh
[16:39] <juxta> :D
[16:39] <rharrison> Read the bottom bit on SD cards
[16:39] <juxta> brilliant
[16:40] <juxta> oh right, so it's just a case of a couple of partitions
[16:40] <juxta> excellent, thanks Rob
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> Also
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> think carefully about resolution
[16:40] <rharrison> oh that tar should have the CHDK scripts in it too
[16:41] <rharrison> Superfine laurge
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> can in any of the HAB pictures you actually tell if you blow up a picture half the x and y dimensions and smooth it?
[16:41] <rharrison> large
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> The only one I've seen that possibly justified it was the images of a wheat-field when it had gotten onto the ground.
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> but...
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> All the others are blurred by lots of air
[16:42] <rharrison> Yep but you have 10 hours of pics and vid available you may as well go for broke
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> true
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> if you've got the storage
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-valahnjuk/
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> cameracano
[16:42] <rharrison> 16gb = 30 quid oe less
[16:44] <juxta> true, SD cards are very cheap these days
[16:44] <juxta> anyway - I best get to bed
[16:44] <juxta> cheers for the advice guys :)
[16:44] <rharrison> np
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[16:52] <rharrison> SpeedEvil, is that a webcam on the volcano?
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> apparantly
[16:54] <rharrison> so when the camera vanishes then we know it's gone with a bang :)
[16:56] <jonsowman> better head over i guess
[16:56] <Randomskk> yup
[16:57] <jonsowman> whoops said that in wrong window
[16:57] <jonsowman> oh well
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[17:12] <junderwood> rharrison, thanks for the tip on CHDK / 8GB. I was just getting round to banging my head against that particular wall!
[17:13] <rharrison> junderwood, np
[17:13] <rharrison> I wrote that to make it easy in the future
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[17:39] <rharrison> I come I go
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[18:14] <rharrison> home time
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[19:56] <edmoore> cool http://www.flickr.com/photos/kt/424288678/
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[19:57] <Andreas4> hello
[19:57] <edmoore> hey Andreas4
[19:57] <Andreas4> someone frrom germany here ?
[19:58] <edmoore> I think so, but I can't remember exactly who. Quite a lot of new faces in 2010 and I have trouble keeping up!
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> there was someone here earlier - wolle
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> (from germany)
[19:58] <Andreas4> okay ... sorry but my english is not so good
[19:58] <Andreas4> but i have a few questions
[19:58] <Andreas4> ^^
[19:59] <edmoore> I have had correspondence with Michael Matthes of http://www.ballonprojekt.de/ in the past
[19:59] <edmoore> ask away!
[20:00] <jonsowman> edmoore: that thing is cool
[20:00] <edmoore> Iain and I were thinking a similar rig for the trackatron ground station would be a good thing
[20:00] <jonsowman> that'd be a very good idea
[20:01] <jonsowman> whats access to the new lab like at the moment?
[20:01] <edmoore> same as ever
[20:01] <edmoore> there's the key in the combo box
[20:01] <jonsowman> same combo?
[20:01] <edmoore> i think we can get 8 keys total, right now I think three of us have personal keys
[20:01] <edmoore> yep
[20:02] <edmoore> I've not been down in the last few days though - concentrating on exams atm
[20:02] <jonsowman> ok we'd like to see the new lab as we havent yet
[20:02] <jonsowman> might go have a look around tomorrow
[20:02] <jonsowman> 8 keys isnt bad really
[20:04] <jonsowman> hows things?
[20:04] <jonsowman> got more exams?
[20:04] <edmoore> 6
[20:04] <jonsowman> good lord
[20:04] <edmoore> yep
[20:04] <jonsowman> whens next?
[20:04] <edmoore> then thesis write-up
[20:04] <edmoore> tomorrow
[20:04] <jonsowman> ah right
[20:04] <jonsowman> good luck again :)
[20:04] <edmoore> ta
[20:05] <jonsowman> guessing not much CUSF related is going on at the moment?
[20:05] <edmoore> I think there is the side project, but I'm out of the loop for the duration of exams
[20:05] <jonsowman> oh ok
[20:06] <jonsowman> yes this term is going to be mostly revision for us too i think
[20:06] <edmoore> it should be. exams fly up on you quickly and they're not easy
[20:06] <edmoore> such is summer for the next few years
[20:06] <jonsowman> yup
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[20:09] <rjharrison> evening all
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[20:09] <jonsowman> hi rjharrison
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[20:12] <rjharrison> Ji jonsowman et al
[20:12] <rjharrison> hi :)
[20:14] <DanielRichman> 80m really needs a calling channel
[20:17] <jonsowman> anyone got a TNC they want to get rid of?
[20:18] <Andreas4> where get i a GPS or must i build this by myself ?
[20:19] <sbasuita> Andreas4: you can buy gps modules like a ublox or a lassen iq
[20:19] <Andreas4> thx
[20:19] <jonsowman> in fact almost any GPS will work, but be careful of COCOM limits
[20:20] <edmoore> jonsowman: talk of the devil. have to pop to our lab now
[20:20] <sbasuita> jonsowman: don't they only apply at crazy speeds?
[20:20] <jonsowman> edmoore: i'd come too but I can't tonight
[20:20] <jonsowman> have to get an early night and work lots tomorrow
[20:20] <jonsowman> sbasuita: some
[20:21] <edmoore> am only diving in to drop off the 817
[20:21] <edmoore> right, see you all
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[20:21] <jonsowman> sbasuita: some GPSes will lose lock if *either* of the limits is reached
[20:22] <jonsowman> eg EM-406a
[20:22] <jonsowman> cuts off at >24km no matter what velocity
[20:22] <sbasuita> jonsowman: that's a bug right?
[20:22] <jonsowman> its such a grey area
[20:23] <jonsowman> some manufacturers just do it
[20:23] <jonsowman> and since that application of the limits techically complies with regulations, nobody complains
[20:23] <jonsowman> but those GPSes are useless (or nearly) for us
[20:25] <jonsowman> some manufacturers apply that limit, and then you can ask for a custom firmware version if you sign a non-export agreement
[20:25] <sbasuita> interesting
[20:26] <jonsowman> best solution is really to go for one that we know works
[20:26] <jonsowman> eg lassen, or some ublox
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> And some GPSs will sort-of-work, but not really.
[20:29] <Andreas4> oh crazy ... its so complicated ^^
[20:29] <jonsowman> Andreas4: as I said, the best way to go is to get a GPS that is known to work
[20:29] <jonsowman> the Lassen iQ is very popular
[20:29] <fsphil> is there a list of known goodies?
[20:29] <fsphil> on the wiki?
[20:30] <jonsowman> fsphil: i've seen one somewhere
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:30] <jonsowman> i've got a feeling it was on a bit of paper in the CUSF lab
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> search teh wiki for gps
[20:30] <sbasuita> did that work
[20:30] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:gps_modules
[20:30] <sbasuita> lol ok ;P
[20:30] <jonsowman> close
[20:31] <fsphil> oh, I've added the reed solomon encoder I used on hadie to the wiki: http://ukhas.org.uk/code:rs8encode
[20:32] <jonsowman> fsphil: neat
[20:38] <Andreas4> why is all on english :-D
[20:38] <jonsowman> Andreas4: sorry
[20:38] <jonsowman> :p
[20:39] <Andreas4> why is all on english :-D?
[20:39] <Andreas4> oh sorry ^^
[20:39] <Andreas4> can i take a GPS Handy to find the box ?
[20:40] <jonsowman> what do you mean?
[20:40] <Andreas4> i would try the same as robert harrison ... with the weather ballon
[20:40] <jonsowman> yup
[20:41] <Andreas4> a camera
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[20:41] <jonsowman> to find the payload you need to listen to the incoming radio beacons and track it to its landing site
[20:41] <Andreas4> a gps handy to find the box with the camera
[20:41] <jonsowman> assuming you're using radio telemetry, which seems to be the best way of doing things
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[20:43] <jonsowman> wb fsphil
[20:43] <fsphil> thanks
[20:43] <fsphil> not sure what happened there
[20:46] <jonsowman> The government has announced that all UK airports will reopen from 2200 BST on Tuesday and the no-fly zone over
[20:48] <jonsowman> mind you bbc site has conflicting info
[20:49] <fsphil> "Manufacturers have now agreed increased tolerance levels in low ash density areas." .. well that's nice of them.
[20:49] <jonsowman> ha
[20:51] <Andreas4> i thry this with a gps handy ^^ I have no idea how I deal with as a GPS module
[20:52] <jonsowman> depends how you interface to the module
[20:52] <jonsowman> serial NMEA is one option, probably the simplest
[20:52] <fsphil> and best documented
[20:52] <Andreas4> i try a look
[20:53] <jonsowman> Andreas4: what are you going to use as a flight computer?
[20:54] <Andreas4> a camera and a handy ^^
[20:54] <Upu> I have an Inventek ISM300 for GPS
[20:55] <Upu> and a breadboard
[20:55] <Upu> that's the sum of my flight computer at the moment :)
[20:57] <earthshine> evening
[20:57] <Upu> evening
[20:58] <Andreas4> your flight computer cost over 700$
[20:58] <Andreas4> ^^ i haven`t so much money
[20:58] <Upu> whos ?
[20:58] <Andreas4> yors
[20:58] <Andreas4> yours
[20:59] <Upu> lol no :)
[20:59] <Upu> http://inventeksys.accountsupport.com/store/ISM300F2-C5-V0004.html
[20:59] <Upu> $32
[20:59] <Andreas4> i have looked at google
[20:59] <Andreas4> ^^
[21:00] <Andreas4> but i have no idea to work with this
[21:01] <Upu> I'd start at the beginning, get one that has a break out board available (that one doesn't), wire it upto a PC and use Hyperterm to see what it does and how it works
[21:01] <Upu> watch the voltages between your PC and the device you choose though
[21:04] <Upu> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8334
[21:04] <Upu> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=163
[21:05] <Upu> and http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/tutorial_info.php?tutorials_id=127 tells you how to do it Andreas4
[21:05] <Upu> all looks so simple :)
[21:10] <Andreas4> these things are all in english ^^
[21:11] <Andreas4> i am not so good in englisch :-D
[21:12] <jiffe1> why does it have a 130k ft ceiling?
[21:12] <jiffe1> that seems low
[21:13] <Upu> that's high most commercial recievers shutdown over a certain speed/altitude apparently
[21:13] <Upu> I'm very new to this so best get someone with some more experience to confirm this
[21:13] <jiffe1> yes because of regulations, but you have to hit both parameters
[21:13] <sbasuita> i don't think 130k ft is the altitude in the paramters
[21:13] <jiffe1> this doesn't seem to be because of regulations because the regulation altitude is much lower
[21:13] <sbasuita> its 18km i think
[21:15] <DanielRichman> in PSK the phase shift is where we shift the phase of the audio, right, not the RF?
[21:20] <DanielRichman> So if one generates an AF sine wave; pop an inverting op amp or something to "flip the waveform upside down"; get a 180' phase shift, then swap between providing one or the other to the TX pin of the NTX2, tune our radios to FM, we transmit PSK on a balloon?
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> umm - sort-of
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> but you basically get none of the advantages of psk that way
[21:22] <Andreas4> sp i must go sleeping .. good night
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> to use the ntx2 to transmit psk, you would need to work out what transient would result in 180 degrees of phase shift at 433mhz
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> and then apply that whenever you wanted a shift
[21:22] <DanielRichman> but I thought it is the phase of the Audio signal that comes out that needs to be shifted
[21:22] <DanielRichman> not the phase of the RF
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[21:23] <DanielRichman> ((or is that totally wrong??)
[21:23] <SpeedEvil> It depends why you're transmitting psk
[21:23] <SpeedEvil> you can of course transmit psk over fm
[21:23] <SpeedEvil> you have almost no benefit from it
[21:24] <DanielRichman> Was re considering alternative transmit modes since getting the exact spacings on the tones in mfsk is apparently quite hard.
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[21:39] <Laurenceb> hello
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[22:14] <jcoxon> evening
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[22:20] <jonsowman> evening jcoxon
[22:20] <jcoxon> hey jonsowman
[22:25] <jcoxon> i wish we had an autonomous vehicle competition
[22:25] <jcoxon> perhaps something for hte hackspace to organise
[22:26] Action: jcoxon has been reading about Sparkfun AVC
[22:26] <jonsowman> oh right, i was wondering
[22:26] <jonsowman> would be fun :)
[22:26] <Randomskk> I wanna go to that sometime
[22:26] <Randomskk> or similar
[22:27] <Randomskk> though I don't think quadcopters are really the ideal vehicle
[22:27] <jcoxon> im also tempted to organise a balloon weekend here in the uk
[22:27] <jcoxon> a sort of challenge
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[22:27] <Randomskk> build a payload in a weekend then do a mass launch kind of thing?
[22:27] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:27] <jcoxon> or set a ridiculous challenge for us all
[22:27] <jcoxon> say 2 payloads with comms between them
[22:28] <Randomskk> we were trying to do that at cusf a while back but didn't really get anywhere
[22:28] <Randomskk> thing is the weather would just obviously fuck you up :P
[22:28] <Randomskk> hmm, that could be interesting
[22:28] <Randomskk> just a weekend at a hackspace or such working flat out on getting it working
[22:28] <fsphil> balloon relay
[22:28] <jcoxon> Randomskk, exactly
[22:28] <fsphil> the range of one balloon is ridiculous already, two would be ... more so
[22:28] <Randomskk> probably solve some interesting challenges
[22:29] <Randomskk> fsphil: but the balloons don't have yagis and highly sensitive receivers onboard
[22:29] <fsphil> that's very true
[22:29] <jcoxon> could rent a 'space' for a weekend
[22:30] <jcoxon> even just a village hall or something
[22:30] <Randomskk> sometime in the summer I guess, when as many people as possible are available?
[22:30] <Randomskk> do you have placements over the summer?
[22:30] <fsphil> and with the frequencies drifting all over the place would make it extra difficult
[22:30] <jcoxon> i qualify in a month...
[22:30] <Randomskk> :o
[22:30] <jcoxon> but start work in august
[22:30] <jcoxon> so could do it in july
[22:31] <Randomskk> yup
[22:31] <Randomskk> no rest for the wicked huh? :P
[22:31] <jcoxon> exactly
[22:31] <jcoxon> could have an online presence as well of course
[22:32] <Randomskk> yea
[22:33] <Randomskk> the americans/canadians can take over when we eventually collapse into a fitful sleep
[22:33] <jcoxon> hehe, need to recruit the hardcorers though such as fergus
[22:33] <jcoxon> he can motor through at least 3 days with no sleep
[22:33] <jcoxon> but yeah
[22:34] <Randomskk> stock up on appropriate stimulants
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[22:34] <jcoxon> but yeah i think it would be great fun
[22:34] <Randomskk> what would we try and do?
[22:34] <Randomskk> yea it would
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[22:35] <jcoxon> ummmmm
[22:35] <jcoxon> inter-balloon comms
[22:36] <fsphil> targeted landing? closest wins
[22:36] <jcoxon> was thinking more of a team challenge
[22:36] <jcoxon> so we all work together to complete a task
[22:36] <fsphil> ah, not a competition like event
[22:37] <Randomskk> targetted landing is all down to the wx anyway
[22:37] <Randomskk> and prediction software
[22:37] <Randomskk> could potentially work on dl-fldigi and the tracker and the predictor too
[22:37] <jcoxon> how about create deploy, emergency balloon
[22:37] <jcoxon> i've always thought about this
[22:37] <Randomskk> emergency balloon?
[22:37] <jcoxon> so you are the first into haiti
[22:37] <jcoxon> you need to restore comms
[22:38] <jcoxon> you launch a float to ~30km
[22:38] <jcoxon> with comms onboard
[22:38] <jcoxon> which restores cellphone network
[22:38] <jcoxon> while we can't do the cellphone bit
[22:38] <jcoxon> we can replicate it
[22:38] <jcoxon> so we need ballast and valve perhaps
[22:38] <jcoxon> easy to deploy, perhaps some sort of autofiller
[22:38] <Randomskk> sounds fun
[22:38] <Randomskk> yea
[22:39] <jcoxon> so we get a scenario
[22:39] <fsphil> if you're going down the comms route, I'd love to get involved, I'm just on the edge of the range here for a launch at cambridge
[22:39] <jcoxon> fsphil, there is no reason why you can't get involved! as i said an online prescence and will need help in software + tracking
[22:40] <jcoxon> perhaps flight computer has gfs onboard so can calculate which altitude to fly at to not move
[22:41] <fsphil> is that possible? I mean, are the winds not all more or less travelling in the same direction?
[22:41] <jcoxon> not really
[22:41] <jcoxon> link coming, hold on
[22:42] <Randomskk> that could be fun
[22:42] <Randomskk> winds vary a lot by altitude and aren't really correlated, it seems
[22:42] <Randomskk> so by going up or down a reasonable amount you can change what direction you get blown
[22:42] <Randomskk> and it may be you can do it to stay in one general area for a long time
[22:42] <Randomskk> depending on the winds
[22:42] <Randomskk> the maths'd be hard
[22:42] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/lib/exe/detail.php/missions:screenshotmap.jpg?id=missions%3Aballasthalo
[22:43] <jcoxon> so in the UK at high alts in the summer the winds blow E->W
[22:43] <jcoxon> while the lower winds blow W->E
[22:45] <fsphil> now that'd be a neat trick
[22:46] <jcoxon> potentially what would be created would have practical application
[22:46] <jcoxon> perhaps we could challenge the states to a competition to build the best over a weekend
[22:53] <jcoxon> well its something to think about...
[22:53] Action: jcoxon needs sleep
[22:53] <jcoxon> night all
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[22:58] <fsphil> and it's good night from me too! later guys
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[23:33] <earthshine> evening
[23:33] <earthshine> what's new ?
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[00:00] --- Wed Apr 21 2010