highaltitude.log.20100419

[00:00] RobertB (~robert@p579721A2.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[00:01] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[00:14] Action: Laurenceb is trying to work out the LSM303DLH datasheet
[00:14] <Laurenceb> http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/16941/lsm303dlh.pdf
[00:14] <Laurenceb> seems like it needs a 1.8v power supply
[00:15] <Laurenceb> page 13
[00:16] <Laurenceb> tho... the pdf is REV1, and the iNEMO board is newer, and has a jumper to select 1.8v or 3.3v power to that pin
[00:17] RocketBoy (~Steve@217.47.75.8) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[00:17] Futurity (~Futurity@cpc7-cmbg15-2-0-cust14.know.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: Futurity
[00:18] <Laurenceb> http://www.st.com/stonline/products/families/evaluation_boards/motion_sensors_mems/development_tool_kit/inertial_sensor/steval-mki062v2/schematic/steval-mki062v2_schematic.pdf
[00:39] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[00:40] Laurenceb (~laurence@host86-136-234-181.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[00:52] darknesslord_ (~darknessl@189.164.166.80) joined #highaltitude.
[00:58] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[01:19] juxta (fourtytwo@ppp118-210-231-183.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[01:26] darknesslord_ (~darknessl@189.164.166.80) left irc: Quit: can i haz interlolz?
[02:00] MoALTz_ (~no@92.20.32.64) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[02:39] <SpeedEvil> http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=25+miles+per+gallon+in+square+millimeters
[02:39] <SpeedEvil> neat
[02:42] <juxta> SpeedEvil: how does MPG convert to mm^2?
[02:43] <SpeedEvil> it's a units thing
[02:43] <SpeedEvil> you can think of it as the area of a rod of fuel a car would use
[02:43] <SpeedEvil> to go along a road
[02:43] <juxta> ah
[02:43] <juxta> I see
[02:44] <SpeedEvil> I diddn't realise the google calc could do things of that form
[02:44] <juxta> it seems a bit picky to me
[02:45] <juxta> sometimes it'll do something I don't expect, then other times it won't be capable of doing something which I would expect
[04:03] smeapala (~smealum@82.243.132.64) joined #highaltitude.
[04:34] smeapala (~smealum@82.243.132.64) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[04:56] natrium42 (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[05:59] natrium42 (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: Quit: My other car is a cdr.
[06:28] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) joined #highaltitude.
[06:31] Spetznaz (~spetznaz@195.234.148.29) joined #highaltitude.
[06:38] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@client-82-26-167-156.pete.adsl.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[06:47] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@client-82-26-167-156.pete.adsl.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]
[07:30] edmoore (~ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[07:30] edmoore (~ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) left irc: Client Quit
[07:45] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[07:46] junderwood (~John@adsl.jcu.me.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[08:50] rharrison (~rharrison@gateway.hgf.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:03] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host217-43-79-14.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:49] b3cft (~abrock@nat/yahoo/x-uxkroyoihpencwwd) joined #highaltitude.
[10:32] ms7821 (~Mark@flat.ms) left irc: Disconnected by services
[10:33] ms7821 (~Mark@flat.ms) joined #highaltitude.
[10:37] ContraSF (email@89-180-139-45.net.novis.pt) left #highaltitude.
[10:41] Laurenceb (~laurence@host86-136-234-181.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:59] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[11:00] Akiraa (~Akiraaaa@79.112.35.181) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[11:01] Akiraa (~Akiraaaa@79.112.35.181) joined #highaltitude.
[11:02] smeapala (~smealum@82.243.132.64) joined #highaltitude.
[11:07] <GW8RAK> Morning all. When the balloon comes back to earth, there has been mention of beacon transmitters on board. Are these separate from from the flight tx or do you use the same one?
[11:07] <GW8RAK> Does it still ouput the position data or just a dumb tone for direction finding?
[11:08] <russss> some payloads have a separate beacon for redundancy
[11:08] <russss> that just outputs a fixed morse string every 15mins
[11:08] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[11:08] <russss> battery tends to last longer on that than on the main payload
[11:08] <GW8RAK> That was my thinking, but since it is no longer in the air, could one run more power and/or different frequency?
[11:09] <russss> the beacons generally run for the full flight
[11:09] <russss> also there's landing in other countries to consider sometimes
[11:09] <russss> the dutch found BallastHalo5 using its backup beacon
[11:12] <Randomskk> GW8RAK: people don't tend to run a higher power or frequency after landing, but I guess technically you may be able to
[11:12] <Randomskk> however it would mean another transmitter, a bigger battery, antenna, etc
[11:13] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host217-43-79-14.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[11:14] <N900evil> a stripped phone can be quite light
[11:14] <Randomskk> or just a gsm module
[11:15] <N900evil> well - yes
[11:15] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host217-43-79-14.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:15] <N900evil> but phone is cheaper
[11:15] <Randomskk> true
[11:15] <GW8RAK> Just as a I start a thread, I loose connection.
[11:15] <N900evil> N900 or somethikng
[11:15] <N900evil> oops
[11:15] <N900evil> n1100
[11:15] <Randomskk> GW8RAK: speedevil was just suggesting a stripped down mobile phone as the backup
[11:16] <Randomskk> cheap, small, light, can text you a gps position
[11:16] <GW8RAK> Thank you. I haven't started looking at the mobile phone option yet as I don't know much about them.
[11:16] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: what mosfets did you use on your BESC?
[11:16] <N900evil> Randomskk: I was more thinking the location services
[11:16] <Randomskk> N900evil: or that I guess
[11:16] <GW8RAK> What sort of interface do they have?
[11:16] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: irf540 and irf9540
[11:16] <N900evil> Randomskk: wheree you can locate a phone
[11:16] <Randomskk> the latter being a complementary pnp
[11:17] <Randomskk> or similar anyway
[11:17] <Randomskk> they're okay but nothing fantastic, however also quite cheap
[11:17] <N900evil> Randomskk: though I hacve also thought of simply playing rapid morse at the mic
[11:17] <Randomskk> hehe
[11:17] <Randomskk> true
[11:17] <Randomskk> don't a lot of them have some sort of serial interface
[11:18] GW8RAK_ (~chatzilla@host217-43-79-14.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:18] <N900evil> dealextereme had/has a 'spy' module ideally suited forthat
[11:18] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: hmm not logic level
[11:18] <GW8RAK_> Lost connection again. BT seems to be having problems recently.
[11:18] <Randomskk> no
[11:18] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: I was looking for 3.3v ones
[11:18] <Randomskk> using sot-23 bjts to drive them
[11:18] <N900evil> teeny box, mic that goews on when you call
[11:18] <Laurenceb> adding cutdown/brushed ESC to my autopilot board
[11:18] SpeedEvil (1000@mauve.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:18] SpeedEvil (1000@mauve.plus.com) left irc: Changing host
[11:18] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[11:19] <Laurenceb> extra space now I'm going with 3 axis digital gyro and LSM303
[11:19] <Randomskk> nice
[11:19] <Laurenceb> ITG-3200 gyro - $10
[11:20] <Randomskk> cor
[11:20] <Randomskk> 3axis 16bit
[11:20] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host217-43-79-14.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[11:20] <Randomskk> builtin selectable filters, i2c, tiny
[11:21] <Randomskk> 4x4 mmm eh
[11:21] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[11:21] <Laurenceb> http://www.cdiweb.com/PortalPartSearch.aspx?txtSearch=ITG-3200
[11:21] <Randomskk> 2000dps?
[11:22] <Laurenceb> degrees per second
[11:22] <Randomskk> I mean, isn't that quite a lot
[11:22] <Laurenceb> yes :P
[11:22] <Laurenceb> 334rpm
[11:23] N900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[11:24] <Laurenceb> problem is it looks like the LSM303 needs a seperate 1.8v supply
[11:24] <Laurenceb> super lame
[11:26] <Randomskk> lsm303?
[11:26] <Randomskk> seems to be a US navy ship too, google is struggling
[11:26] <Randomskk> ah
[11:26] <Randomskk> the accel+magno?
[11:27] <Laurenceb> yes
[11:27] <Randomskk> sweet
[11:27] <Laurenceb> its odd- theres mention of a reg in the datasheet, but then the iNEMO schematic has a seperate 1.8v supply
[11:28] <Laurenceb> and the default reg config disables the internal reg
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> contact them?
[11:28] <Laurenceb> I suspect maybe its going to be there on a future revision - the iNEMO schematic has a jumper to power everything on 3.3v
[11:28] <Laurenceb> yeah I will
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> do they actually say 'do not use the internal reg' ?
[11:28] <Laurenceb> *and the default register config disables the internal reg
[11:28] <Laurenceb> no
[11:29] <Laurenceb> but how do you enable it?
[11:29] <Laurenceb> its a catch22
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> I see
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> is 1.8v the digital supply?
[11:29] <Laurenceb> yes
[11:30] <Laurenceb> but just to the magno
[11:30] <Laurenceb> I suspect they copied honeywells design - that has the same feature, but 1.8v is enabled by default so you can start it from 3.3v
[11:31] <Laurenceb> probably not using the same chip as some of the registers differ from the HMC-5843
[11:32] <Laurenceb> looks like I'll need an extra SOT reg
[11:34] <Laurenceb> http://www.st.com/stonline/products/families/evaluation_boards/motion_sensors_mems/development_tool_kit/inertial_sensor/steval-mki062v2/schematic/steval-mki062v2_schematic.pdf
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> the reg is on the magno chip?
[11:37] <Laurenceb> on the honeywell HMC5843 it is
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> what's the max/min of the 1.8 ?
[11:37] <Laurenceb> 2.0, 1.6
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> hack.
[11:37] <Laurenceb> actually theres a cap on the C1 pin on that schematic
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> actually - no
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> nvm
[11:38] <Laurenceb> I though that was the output from the internal reg
[11:38] <Laurenceb> very odd
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> teeny cap fed by a resistor divider to boot from?
[11:38] <Laurenceb> hmm maybe
[11:39] <Laurenceb> guess I really need to contact ST as I cant be sure what going on atm
[11:39] <Randomskk> is the i/o also 1v8 when your supply is?
[11:39] <Randomskk> or do you have 3v3 for the i/o
[11:40] <Laurenceb> 3.3v
[11:40] <Laurenceb> at least on the iNEMO schematic you do
[11:42] <Laurenceb> page 21 of the LSM303 datasheet
[11:44] <Laurenceb> ah looks like the I2C bus can go to 3.3v, but the data ready pin will only go up to 1.8v... that how I read it
[11:47] <Laurenceb> but 1.8V logic can drive 3.3v logic?
[11:50] <Laurenceb> guess it depends on the tolerances... ST seem to think so from their board design
[11:52] <Laurenceb> the DRDY output is handy - you could use it to trigger an interrupt to time stamp the data
[11:55] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:06] <Laurenceb> the ITG-3200 has a CLK input so syncronisation is easier
[12:34] Spetznaz (~spetznaz@195.234.148.29) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[12:36] Spetznaz (~spetznaz@195.234.148.29) joined #highaltitude.
[12:52] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: http://invensense.com/mems/gyro/documents/PS-ITG-3200-00-01.4.pdf <- page 15, whats the aesiest way to achieve that?
[12:52] Action: SpeedEvil loads.
[12:56] <Laurenceb> I guess Ill power the digital pin seperately - off the digital rail
[12:56] <Laurenceb> and both the rails are constantly powered up - analogue and digital
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> easiest is simply a 1.8v ldo hooked to vdd, and power the whole thing up in under a ms
[12:58] <Laurenceb> hmm yeah maybe I could run it off the 1.8v reg along with the magno
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> see page 17 - 5.9
[12:59] <Laurenceb> obviosu solution
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> vlogic just sets the i2c ref levels
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> and can be vdd
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> =vdd
[13:00] <Laurenceb> yeah... but if vdd ramps up over 5ms then vlogic ramps to slowly
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> why would it ramp that slow?
[13:01] <Laurenceb> but if its just setting the ref values its hard to see what could go wrong
[13:01] <Laurenceb> ideally I was to get vdd to ramp slowly as theres some large caps on there - so keep the current draw low
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> ah
[13:01] <Laurenceb> that keeps the smps more stable... or at least thats what spice suggests
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> you have a smps then a ldo?
[13:02] <Laurenceb> yes
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> or was that a couple of versions ago
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> can you turn the ldo off and on?
[13:02] <Laurenceb> nope
[13:03] <Laurenceb> smps - 3.5v rail - ldo to 3.3v
[13:03] <Laurenceb> you can set the rampup time of the smps with a softstart cap
[13:05] <Laurenceb> I guess they could have the rampup limits to avoid corrupted I2C data
[13:06] <Laurenceb> but you could always issue a master reset after boot
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> I'd say it' wierd startup states
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> the chip probably doesn't like slow ramps - especially if it may go up, down, up
[13:07] <Laurenceb> oh hang on a sec... if it has an internal rag driving the digitasl, and VLOGIC is just for setting the levels, then just tie the 2 together
[13:07] <Laurenceb> and theres no extra noise issues
[13:07] <Laurenceb> doh
[13:08] <Laurenceb> even more cunning scheme - connect the REGOUT pin to the magno 1.8v power pin
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> that will introduce noise if it's also used for analog
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> as it implies it may be
[13:09] Akiraa (~Akiraaaa@79.112.35.181) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[13:10] Akiraaa (~Akiraaaa@79.112.35.181) joined #highaltitude.
[13:19] <Laurenceb> well its apparently used for digital on the magno
[13:23] <Laurenceb> but yeah its probably powering analogue and digital or something on the gyro
[13:24] <Laurenceb> guess you could stick a filter inbetween - RC low pass
[13:24] grumbel_ (grumbel@grumbelbart.de) left #highaltitude.
[13:26] N900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[13:33] alexbreton (~526f17c6@gateway/web/freenode/x-glillpxmtespgtkm) joined #highaltitude.
[13:33] <alexbreton> EMERGENCY NEED COSTING PLAN
[13:33] <alexbreton> MAYDAY MAYDAY
[13:33] <Randomskk> hi
[13:34] <alexbreton> (DanielRichman) Randomskk excuse this buffoon. He forgot to do the "detailed draft budgeting" for the school "Enterprise awards"
[13:34] <alexbreton> we need some general ideas of price ranges for some basic stuff, if
[13:34] <alexbreton> that's possible
[13:34] <alexbreton> geiger counter, uv sensor, small camcorder
[13:35] <Randomskk> amazon.co.uk
[13:35] <Randomskk> well
[13:35] <Randomskk> I guess the others depend on your supplier
[13:44] Nick change: smeapala -> smealum
[13:45] alexbreton (~526f17c6@gateway/web/freenode/x-glillpxmtespgtkm) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[13:53] alexbreton (~526f17c6@gateway/web/freenode/x-jqwzmidvdbbushml) joined #highaltitude.
[13:54] junderwood_ (~John@adsl.jcu.me.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[13:54] <alexbreton> Randomskk: sorry to harass you further; do you a) have any groovy ideas about what sensors we can send up; b) know of an easy to use (1wire?) UV sensor?? I can't find one
[13:56] <Randomskk> I'd been thinking about that but can't really think of anything particularly cool - pressure, geiger, UV if you can find a sensor (I don't know of any), light is common, humidity, temperature, moisture?, acceleration?
[13:57] junderwood (~John@adsl.jcu.me.uk) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[13:59] Alex_Breton (~526f17c6@gateway/web/freenode/x-aexbdbsmeeekayfw) joined #highaltitude.
[13:59] <Alex_Breton> sup
[14:00] <Alex_Breton> alexbreton: fag
[14:00] <alexbreton> Randomskk: OK we have put £
[14:00] <alexbreton> £15 humidity & pressure each; + balloon = £100 total demand from the award fund. Sound sensible?
[14:00] <alexbreton> ignore the fools
[14:00] <Randomskk> ask for more
[14:01] <Randomskk> may as well
[14:01] <Randomskk> you can always buy more sensors, cameras, etc
[14:01] <Randomskk> £200?
[14:01] <Laurenceb> £15 pressure + humidity ?! where
[14:03] edmoore (~ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[14:04] Alex_Breton (~526f17c6@gateway/web/freenode/x-aexbdbsmeeekayfw) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[14:05] alexbreton (~526f17c6@gateway/web/freenode/x-jqwzmidvdbbushml) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[14:09] ms7821 (~Mark@flat.ms) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[14:09] ms7821 (~Mark@flat.ms) joined #highaltitude.
[14:10] Laurenceb (~laurence@host86-136-234-181.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[14:31] N900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[14:38] N900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[15:04] edmoore (~ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[15:11] <earthshine> afternoon
[15:16] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[15:19] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[15:26] earthshine (~mmcrobert@cpc3-orpi1-0-0-cust867.bmly.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[15:27] Spetznaz (~spetznaz@195.234.148.29) left irc:
[15:29] grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[15:38] earthshine (~mmcrobert@cpc3-orpi1-0-0-cust867.bmly.cable.ntl.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:47] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[15:54] Jasperw (~jasperw@skeleton2.london.iofc.org) joined #highaltitude.
[16:13] darknesslord_ (~darknessl@189.164.166.80) joined #highaltitude.
[16:28] sbasuita (~sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) joined #highaltitude.
[16:42] <juxta> hi all
[16:44] <jonsowman> hi juxta
[16:44] <juxta> hey jonsowman
[16:44] Action: juxta is a happy chappy today
[16:45] <jonsowman> juxta: good, whys that?
[16:45] <juxta> have the MD of a very cool company who seems interested in sponsoring my launches :)
[16:45] <jonsowman> ah nice one :)
[16:45] <jonsowman> good luck
[16:46] <juxta> Incidentally I work for the company too, and he's a pretty cool guy - but I felt a little odd asking given I work there, hehe
[16:46] <jonsowman> hmm well if it means you get sponsorship
[16:47] <juxta> :)
[16:51] grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) joined #highaltitude.
[16:55] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[16:56] darknesslord_ (~darknessl@189.164.166.80) left irc: Quit: can i haz interlolz?
[16:59] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[17:02] <earthshine> congrats Juxta
[17:06] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host217-43-79-14.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]
[17:10] <rharrison> juxta, cool
[17:10] <rharrison> Sponsorship os always very cool
[17:10] <rharrison> is
[17:10] <juxta> indeed!
[17:10] <rharrison> How does that work out?
[17:11] <rharrison> Do you get free GAS etc..
[17:11] <juxta> not sure at this stage, need to discuss it further
[17:13] <juxta> I've emailed an electronics supplier too rjharrison
[17:13] <juxta> will see how things pan out
[17:16] <juxta> bed time for me, will let you know how it proceeds soon :)
[17:18] DanielRichman (~DanielRic@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude.
[17:21] <jonsowman> catch you later juxta
[17:23] b3cft (~abrock@nat/yahoo/x-uxkroyoihpencwwd) left irc: Quit: b3cft
[17:24] juxta (fourtytwo@ppp118-210-231-183.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[17:35] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, sorry for my spontaneous /quit earlier; someone decided to shut down my computer for me (which is why one does not go on IRC at my school). Providing alex remembered, we did in the end submit a request for £250; detailing the first £100 and stating that a second camera and more env. sensors would be possible with more moneys
[17:40] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54884DE9.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:47] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@client-82-26-167-156.pete.adsl.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:51] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: nice one
[17:51] <Lunar_Lander> any news on the american flight of yesterday?
[17:51] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: oho, computers being turned off at school, I know all about that :P
[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> any news on the american flight of yesterday?
[17:54] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, it's a total pain. I wonder if the school pc bioses support disabling of acpi or atleast making it standby when that button is pressed, not full powerdown
[17:55] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, afaik interpreting the buttons etc is an o/s feature
[17:55] <DanielRichman> yes but iirc the bios has a little bit of say in it
[17:57] <SpeedEvil> the 4s press -> off is pretty low-level hardware
[17:57] <SpeedEvil> what it does on a short press is entirely software thoguh
[17:59] <Lunar_Lander> hi DanielRichman SpeedEvil
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> ih
[17:59] <DanielRichman> hi
[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:13] Futurity (~Futurity@cpc7-cmbg15-2-0-cust14.know.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:14] <Futurity> Hi, It seems that the balloon launch videos i uploaded to YouTube within iMovie haven't been published yet. Is a 24 hour delay normal?
[18:17] <rharrison> Weird
[18:17] <rharrison> I'm off home now will be on later
[18:17] <Futurity> i'll manually upload it later
[18:18] fsphil (~phil@2001:470:1f09:483:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) joined #highaltitude.
[18:18] chembrow (~chatzilla@188-221-15-153.zone12.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:18] <rharrison> Futurity, still very interested in those DVD's :)
[18:18] Hiena (~Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[18:18] <Futurity> did you email me back your address?
[18:21] <rharrison> hehe have now
[18:21] jasonb_ (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[18:22] <rharrison> Upu, I guess your not at work ATM :)
[18:23] <rharrison> Upu, if you email me you moblie I'll text you next time I go for a launch.
[18:25] rharrison (~rharrison@gateway.hgf.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[18:25] chembrow_ (~chatzilla@188-221-15-153.zone12.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:26] chembrow_ (~chatzilla@188-221-15-153.zone12.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Client Quit
[18:27] chembrow_ (~chatzilla@188-221-15-153.zone12.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:27] chembrow (~chatzilla@188-221-15-153.zone12.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[18:27] Nick change: chembrow_ -> chembrow
[18:27] <Futurity> Upu, launches are great fun (if you haven't already been to one)
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> my launch has moved into some form of reality
[18:36] <DanielRichman> Lunar_Lander, how's your flight computer coming along?
[18:37] <Futurity> I'm also thinking of going for a launch this year, although don't have a payload yet (small issue that)
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> I have to phone my friend
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> but do you know what is strange?
[18:38] <Futurity> nope, do tell
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> an airmail letter to me has reached the universiry
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> *university
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> I have no idea why the letter was sent to there or who sent it
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> have to find out tomorrow
[18:41] jasonb (~jasonb@m710e36d0.tmodns.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:00] chembrow (~chatzilla@188-221-15-153.zone12.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401074458]
[19:09] MoALTz (~no@92.20.32.64) joined #highaltitude.
[19:35] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[19:35] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[19:36] jasonb (~jasonb@m710e36d0.tmodns.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[19:52] chembrow (~chris@188-221-15-153.zone12.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[19:55] <chembrow> evening all. I've been doing some digging and found the datasheet for an old GPS I've got, which uses the locsense chipset. Has anyone used these?
[19:56] <chembrow> according to the datasheet, it's operational limits are: "Altitude < 18,000m or velocity < 515m/s
[19:56] <chembrow> (COCOM limit, either may be exceeded but not both)"
[19:56] <chembrow> this should work for a HAB ok, shouldn't it?
[19:56] <sbasuita> chembrow, yep
[19:57] <chembrow> sbasuita thanks, that's what I thought
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> datasheets have been incorrect in the past though
[19:57] <sbasuita> true; some gps' have weird ceilings
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> also - some GPSs haven't really been tested properly at altitude
[19:57] <chembrow> SpeedEvil I guess there's only one way to find out for sure
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> yep.
[19:58] Futurity (~Futurity@cpc7-cmbg15-2-0-cust14.know.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: Futurity
[19:58] <GW8RAK> I hope the Locsense one works according to the datasheet as that is the one I have
[19:59] <chembrow> at least that's one component down. only several more to aquire.
[20:00] <chembrow> GW8RAK mine's from a PDA car kit, but I thought I might as well try it rather than get a new one
[20:01] <GW8RAK> I have a uBlox one I acquired some time ago, but never got around to using and then lost it. So I bought a locsense one to go with my picaxe flight controller.
[20:02] <GW8RAK> Naturally I then found the uBlox one as soon as the replacement arrived.
[20:02] <chembrow> suppose you could use both, to see which performs better
[20:03] <GW8RAK> But, unfortunately for a friend, he then dropped his car gps just as he was arriving at my house. So now I have a garmin gps waiting to be opened.
[20:04] <chembrow> I've got a Siemens GSM modem which I was thinking of using, but it needs a minimum of 8 volts at 250ma, which was higher than I was hoping to have to use.
[20:04] <GW8RAK> Is that for a recovery text message?
[20:05] <chembrow> yeah. the nice thing about the GSM modems is that you can just supply power and know they will start up, unlike a lot of mobile phones where you have to manually turn them on
[20:06] <chembrow> plus the AT commands are very well documented
[20:06] <GW8RAK> It's good you know about such things, as I've been googling for information on AT commands and phones or gsm modems to use.
[20:06] <GW8RAK> Which model do you have?
[20:07] <chembrow> *rummages through bits draw* Siemens TC35i
[20:08] Futurity (~Futurity@cpc7-cmbg15-2-0-cust14.know.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:08] <chembrow> Until 18 months ago I was a developer working in the mobile arena doing SMS related work, so I've got quite a lot of experience with these things :)
[20:08] <GW8RAK> It does use a bit of power, but if it is mostly dormant, does it matter? I was thinking of waking it up at 1000m and send a couple of text messages before it hits the ground.
[20:09] <chembrow> so if I can help let me know.
[20:09] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: are you sure it'll acquire GSM signal that quickly?
[20:09] <chembrow> I was more thinking of the need to pack in extra batteries to supply the extra needed above 5v
[20:09] <jonsowman> i've heard of phones being powered up for the whole flight but still not getting signal until after they hit the ground
[20:10] <GW8RAK> Thanks chembrow. Much appreciated.
[20:10] <chembrow> jonsowman from my point of view, that would be enough. I'm thinking of this purely for recovery
[20:10] <GW8RAK> jonsowman - no idea. Would need to get one and see how long it takes to acquire signal and send text.
[20:10] <chembrow> there are AT commands to query signal strength which would help.
[20:10] <Randomskk> don't forget it may land somewhere without gsm coverage, ideally you want it transmitting as it falls where it's a bit more likely to get signal than the ground
[20:11] <jonsowman> chembrow: fair enough, just thought I'd mention it :)
[20:11] <jonsowman> there's no reason the SMS *has* to be sent from the air
[20:11] <Randomskk> jonsowman: this p.d. is the most boring thing
[20:11] <jonsowman> apart from what Randomskk just said
[20:11] <jonsowman> Randomskk: isn't it
[20:11] <chembrow> plus the modems have external antenna which are quite a bit beefier than those in a mobile phone
[20:11] <Randomskk> the antennas in mobile phones are very very very clever though
[20:11] <chembrow> jonsowman no problem, worth considering
[20:12] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: definitely worth testing
[20:12] <GW8RAK> There's lot of things to consider in whatever we do, but I'm just trying to cover all options before committing myself.
[20:12] <jonsowman> although I feel time-to-acquire is going to be a function of many many things
[20:13] <GW8RAK> chembrow - how does one write data to the modem? My interfacing skills are limited and only really understand serial ports.
[20:14] <chembrow> AT commands are sent as ASCII text over a standard serial connection. From an arduino you just use the "Serial.write" or "Serial.println" commands.
[20:15] <GW8RAK> thanks for that. I've just looked on ebay and there are a couple on there.
[20:15] <chembrow> you could probably pick up an old mobile phone for cheaper though, and you don't have to worry about powering that
[20:15] <sbasuita> some mobile phones will act as modems with at commands over serial
[20:16] <sbasuita> we're using an old sony ericsson off ebay
[20:16] <chembrow> sbasuita and typically older ones are easier to interface with, as well as being cheaper
[20:16] <sbasuita> yep
[20:16] <GW8RAK> I'm using a Picaxe chip as the "flight computer" so limited programming, but serial is catered for. In fact I'm trying to write some software to do that tonight.
[20:16] <chembrow> I've used a nokia 6210 very successfully in the past
[20:16] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: using a PICAXE too
[20:17] <GW8RAK> There's a few of them around.
[20:17] <chembrow> GW8RAK I'll see if I can dig out some old AT commands for sending SMS if you want
[20:17] <GW8RAK> I had a problem with the Picaxe connect board for the GPS and it has taken all my time to find that fault, but now it is working, I'm making progress.
[20:18] <GW8RAK> thanks chembrow. The more information I can get the better. I think a recovery sms would be best for my project as I want the highest probability of recovery.
[20:18] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: yeh that definitely increases the chance of recovering significantly
[20:18] <chembrow> GW8RAK same here
[20:18] <GW8RAK> It is an Air Cadet project and don't want them getting frustrated by losoing equipment.
[20:19] <GW8RAK> loosing
[20:19] <jonsowman> as long as 1) lands in an area of GSM reception and 2) not in the sea
[20:19] <Randomskk> also don't launch unless predictor puts you safely on land by a good margin, even if all the kids are there and want to launch today
[20:19] <Randomskk> because that's exactly when you lose it :P
[20:19] <GW8RAK> The sea would be a problem, but I'm anticipating taking a drysuit with me in case of lake landing.
[20:19] <Randomskk> dedication
[20:20] <Randomskk> make it float
[20:20] <jonsowman> and waterproof
[20:20] <GW8RAK> I have been toying with the idea of having a high power beacon which only switches on when it lands (honestly, it didn't come on at 1000m) to make the final moments more trackable.
[20:20] <jonsowman> predictor is back out in the drink again
[20:21] <Randomskk> weird scenario atm isn't it?
[20:21] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: what frequency? amateur?
[20:21] <jonsowman> it also means another transmitter, more mass in batteries and antenna
[20:21] <Randomskk> GW8RAK: however high power means low lifetime from batteries
[20:21] <Randomskk> better for low power and a better receiver really, or ideally track it on the way down
[20:22] <sbasuita> yeah if its on the ground you want it to last a few days
[20:22] <sbasuita> sometimes recovery can take a while
[20:22] <jonsowman> I would think 10mW 70cms telem and GSM on landing will be fine
[20:22] <Randomskk> yea
[20:22] <GW8RAK> The air cadets do have their own channels and I'd like to use one of them so more squadrons can listen in. Completely understand the battery life vs output power balance.
[20:23] <Randomskk> also legal tx, you cannot operate on amateur licenses until it is on the ground
[20:23] <Randomskk> actually on the ground
[20:23] <jonsowman> Randomskk: true, but what about on these decidated fxs
[20:23] <Randomskk> can cadets operate airborne?
[20:23] <jonsowman> I'd be surprised if those frequencies could be used airborne
[20:24] <GW8RAK> I'm currently in discussion with HQ air cadets seeking permission for one flight with a higher powered airborne tx as a flying repeater.
[20:24] <Randomskk> they are air cadets
[20:24] <jonsowman> or are we going for "it was on the ground, honest"
[20:24] <jonsowman> true
[20:24] <Randomskk> however a pilot's radio license is a very different thing
[20:24] <GW8RAK> Even asking the question has got some people jumping up and down
[20:24] <Randomskk> GW8RAK: heh
[20:24] <Randomskk> is that good or bad
[20:25] <GW8RAK> What? Making them jump up and down? It has ruffled a few feathers I believe.
[20:27] <jonsowman> Randomskk: nickcolor doesn't let you specify colors for nicks does it
[20:27] <Randomskk> not unless you wanna write you some perl
[20:28] <jonsowman> oh ok
[20:28] <jonsowman> i really don't
[20:28] <Randomskk> the script is commented apparently
[20:28] <Randomskk> but yea
[20:28] <Randomskk> no easy way
[20:28] <jonsowman> not worth it
[20:28] <jonsowman> maybe when i really have nothing better to do
[20:28] <jonsowman> which is not in the forseeable future
[20:29] <Randomskk> :P
[20:29] <jonsowman> hows dp?
[20:29] <Randomskk> meh
[20:29] <jonsowman> *pd
[20:29] <Randomskk> should be working on it
[20:29] Xenion (~robert@p579FCCB4.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:29] <Randomskk> but instead am watching "is it a good idea to microwave this" on youtube
[20:29] <Randomskk> the answer is yes, yes it is
[20:30] <jonsowman> well vaguely related at least
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> that show is great
[20:30] <Futurity> Hi Guys
[20:31] <jonsowman> Futurity: hello
[20:31] <Futurity> just reuploading the video footoage of the Icarus launch
[20:31] <Futurity> testing with this short video of the balloon, where you can here me being electrocuted by the electric fence. enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQPI1EsTWxU
[20:32] <jonsowman> "don't touch it then" hahaa
[20:33] <Randomskk> massive load of static? :P
[20:33] <Randomskk> can hear the pop
[20:38] <sbasuita> i love the declaration of 'a massive load of static'
[20:38] <sbasuita> (y)
[20:38] <GW8RAK> chembrow - what does the Siemens modem need to get it onto a network?
[20:42] <chembrow> GW8RAK Just a SIM card and antenna.
[20:43] <chembrow> to send as SMS it is easiest to use "text" mode, set by sending the command: AT+CMGF=1
[20:43] <GW8RAK> Nice and simple then.
[20:43] <GW8RAK> Been looking at AT commands and think I understand them. Getting the serial interface working should be entertaining, but no impossible.
[20:43] <chembrow> then the SMS is sent by sending: AT+CMGS="+447123456789"<CR>Hello World<Ctrl-Z>
[20:44] <chembrow> if the picaxe is anything like the arduino it should be pretty easy
[20:44] <GW8RAK> That would be, to use the modern vernacular, "cool"
[20:44] edmoore (~ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[20:44] <chembrow> BTW, those commands should also work with a phone as the modem
[20:45] <chembrow> This is a really complete reference of the AT commands: http://www.portech.com.tw/data/Siemens%20TC35I_AT.pdf
[20:45] <GW8RAK> Nothing jumps out as being too difficult so far, but I've not tried a low speed serial output for driving the flight tx.
[20:46] <edmoore> I've caught the tail end of this but a lot of mobile phones now don't support AT commands.
[20:46] <GW8RAK> Thanks for the document
[20:46] <edmoore> the seimens ones did, the Nokia's were a disaster
[20:46] <GW8RAK> Was just about to hit print, then saw how many pages.
[20:46] <Futurity> glad you all enjoyed the electric shock video
[20:47] <edmoore> can you link to it?
[20:47] <jonsowman> Futurity: very much
[20:47] <Futurity> just uploading the launch manually
[20:47] <jonsowman> haha
[20:47] <edmoore> missed it
[20:47] <jonsowman> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQPI1EsTWxU
[20:47] <Futurity> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQPI1EsTWxU
[20:47] <edmoore> ha, that's very very funny
[20:48] <chembrow> edmoore the older nokias are better. the 6210 was perfect for use as a modem.
[20:48] <jonsowman> edmoore: how did the exam go?
[20:48] <jonsowman> it was today right?
[20:48] <edmoore> we had problems with the 6310
[20:48] <edmoore> FBUS was temperamental
[20:48] <edmoore> jonsowman: it was a disaster
[20:48] <Futurity> Edmoore: I hope your rescue trip to help me didn't cost you too much revision time?
[20:49] <jonsowman> oh dear, how so?
[20:49] <edmoore> but thankfully that was the concensus of everyone who took it, and the academic who proof-read it in advance
[20:49] <Futurity> oh no
[20:49] <edmoore> not an easy exam at all
[20:49] <Futurity> what went wrong?
[20:49] <jonsowman> ah well thats not so bad then
[20:49] <edmoore> it was exceptionally difficult
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:49] <Futurity> well fingers crossed you managed a bit more than everyone else
[20:50] <edmoore> some bizarre recursive periodogram algorithm, which we're then asked to find the variance for for some arbitrary non-gaussian process. all in about 20 minutes. algebraic nightmare. conceptual nightmare.
[20:51] <edmoore> did. not. like.
[20:51] <edmoore> anyway, let's hope for better luck on the next one.
[20:52] <edmoore> Futurity: that's a really thwack you got!
[20:52] <edmoore> real*
[20:52] <Futurity> it wasn't good at all
[20:52] <Futurity> it didn't hurt
[20:52] <Futurity> more a pins and needles feeling in my elbow
[20:53] <Futurity> yep, my elbow, the worst place on the body to get a shock lol
[20:53] <Futurity> i.e. funny bone
[20:54] <edmoore> you should email that to the arhab mailing list
[20:54] <edmoore> a cautionary tail
[20:56] <chembrow> edmoore didn't the 6310i support serial through the inbuilt modem, like the 6210?
[20:57] <edmoore> yes, but the serial format it needed was something that, for some reason, we couldn't generate with the hardware usart on our arm chip so we had to write a soft one, and it seemed very fussy
[20:57] <Futurity> launch video can now be seen here
[20:57] <Futurity> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxovYXoTGHk
[20:57] <edmoore> loosing the gsm was the best thing we did
[20:57] <Futurity> i guess the hd versions are available later?
[20:58] <chembrow> odd, although I never connected from a micro, only a pc
[20:58] <chembrow> why was losing the GSM a good thing?
[20:58] <edmoore> it always felt like cheating :)
[20:58] <edmoore> and the radio got reliable enough that, in combination with our landing predictor code, we found we didn't really need the gsm
[20:59] <edmoore> we could always find it
[20:59] <chembrow> I don't mind a bit of cheating if it means retrieving the payload. certainly for a first launch
[20:59] <edmoore> sure. we had gsm for the first 7 or so of our launches
[20:59] <chembrow> I'm looking at using a siemens GSM modem, so communication's not an issue; they're designed for it
[21:00] <edmoore> but rtty is good. and for one of jcoxon's launches we managed to find it within east anglia with just direction finding the 1hz backup beacon
[21:00] <edmoore> we took a bearing from ipswich and norwich and then homed in
[21:00] <GW8RAK> edmoore - 1hz backup beacon? Was that in addition to the flight tx?
[21:01] <edmoore> yep
[21:01] <edmoore> the flight tx went down within about the first km of ascent
[21:01] <chembrow> was that on a different frequency to the main tx?
[21:01] <edmoore> yep
[21:01] <GW8RAK> What hardware did you use?
[21:01] <edmoore> it was just another 10mW job
[21:01] <edmoore> ntx2 or similar
[21:02] <GW8RAK> My worry is that a 10mW beacon lying on the ground is going to have a very short range and not be detectable.
[21:02] <edmoore> i think it might actually have been one of the Circuit Solutions modules, but they have proved to be far less robust than the radiometrix units
[21:03] <edmoore> GW8RAK: that's entirely valid. We have always found though that our landing prediction code produced a good enough estimate that we could always be close enough to hear it
[21:03] <GW8RAK> I'm impressed
[21:04] <edmoore> that's why we dropped the gsm
[21:04] <edmoore> combined with the gsm modems costing the same as the rest of the computer put together
[21:04] <edmoore> and pulling about 2A during transmit!
[21:04] <Futurity> here is another burst clip. you'll have to make it full screen to really see the balloon. I think it'll be far clearer once the HD versions are available (i.e. 720p)
[21:04] <Futurity> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mznpNYMNRpg
[21:05] <edmoore> the 720p is already there
[21:05] <edmoore> you can see it quite well±!
[21:05] <chembrow> edmoore fortunately I already have the module, so cost's not an issue at least
[21:05] <Futurity> wow that was quick
[21:05] <edmoore> we used a telit gm468 as our gsm module, for reference
[21:06] <edmoore> gmXXX, rather
[21:06] <edmoore> where XXX =
[21:06] Action: edmoore checks
[21:06] <edmoore> 862
[21:07] <Futurity> cool glad it works
[21:07] <Futurity> signing off for tonight ttfn
[21:07] <edmoore> there was some work to get the GPS version of the telit gsm modem to work above 24km. combined with the onboard python interpreter, you'd have a flight tracker in a single device
[21:08] Futurity (~Futurity@cpc7-cmbg15-2-0-cust14.know.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: Futurity
[21:08] <edmoore> but I don't think anyone got it working
[21:08] <chembrow> I've got the siemens TC35i unit; hoping to find the datasheet to be able to pull the gsm module out an use it standalone
[21:08] ContraSF (email@89.180.209.116) joined #highaltitude.
[21:08] <chembrow> interesting. I've used the all-in-one siemens units before, but not the telits
[21:09] <edmoore> chembrow: http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:mihab:mihab_2
[21:09] <edmoore> 2nd picture
[21:09] <edmoore> 3rd picture sorry
[21:09] <edmoore> i beleive the gold phone nestled in the bottom left is the TC35
[21:10] Futurity (~Futurity@cpc7-cmbg15-2-0-cust14.know.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:10] <edmoore> so it has 'heritage' (which I understand is the buzzword in aerospace circles)
[21:10] Futurity (~Futurity@cpc7-cmbg15-2-0-cust14.know.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Client Quit
[21:10] <chembrow> this is what I've got: http://www.warburtech.com/gsm/tc35i.terminal/
[21:10] <edmoore> ah cool
[21:11] jasonb (~jasonb@dsl027-180-244.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:11] <edmoore> considered that naked pcb for badger1. I think we went with the telit just so we could buy everything from sparkfun
[21:11] <chembrow> but the entire unit wants 8 volts. just the gsm module inside can run on 3.
[21:12] Jasperw (~jasperw@skeleton2.london.iofc.org) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[21:12] <edmoore> poor old badger1. we got her back in the end though: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3863616068/in/set-72157622038400075/
[21:12] <chembrow> nasty
[21:12] b3cft (~abrock@host86-178-160-25.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:13] <chembrow> anyway, I have to spend some time with the missus. night all
[21:14] chembrow (chris@188-221-15-153.zone12.bethere.co.uk) left #highaltitude.
[21:16] <earthshine> hi all
[21:16] <earthshine> What's new ?
[21:16] <GW8RAK> thanks chembrow
[21:30] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[21:33] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54884DE9.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Quit: Lunar_Lander
[21:40] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@client-82-26-167-156.pete.adsl.virginmedia.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[21:52] Laurenceb (~laurence@host86-136-234-181.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:53] Hiena (~Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: Quit: -=Got bored from the net. Gone blowing up things.=-
[21:53] <Laurenceb> hi all
[21:58] <edmoore> join vim
[21:58] <edmoore> fail
[21:59] edmoore (~ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[21:59] edmoore (~ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[21:59] <fsphil> yes, join vim. join us!
[22:00] <DanielRichman> you mean there's an alternative to vim?
[22:00] <edmoore> I've been a part of you since I started with unix. not to worry. I was just looking for plugin help
[22:08] <edmoore> well actually I was just asking this: 'how do I install a .vim plugin (python.vim)? Ive placed it in ~/.vim/plugin and in /usr/share/vim/vim72/plugin/, but nothing seems to be working.' which is the question from here: http://metaleks.net/internet/elitism-in-irc
[22:09] <edmoore> mainly to see how quickly I got kicked
[22:09] <edmoore> infact I got banned within about 4 seconds
[22:09] <edmoore> revision is going well
[22:14] <edmoore> At the rick of getting a really high monologue coefficient, I am working on some numerical integration methods for a project currently. One of them is the cumulative trapezoidal numerical method. Helpfully, matlab has a built-in function for this
[22:14] <edmoore> Ladies and Gents, I give you: cumtrapz(X)
[22:14] <Randomskk> *applaud
[22:15] <Randomskk> that's quite the function name
[22:15] <jonsowman> haahaha
[22:15] <Randomskk> excellent, octave has it too
[22:15] <fsphil> hehe
[22:15] <fsphil> I wish I understood 10% of that ;)
[22:16] <edmoore> it's really just what you did in school before you learnt calculus!
[22:16] <Randomskk> count the squares :P
[22:16] <edmoore> between counting squares and learning calculus
[22:16] <Randomskk> well in this case the trapezoidal sections but
[22:16] <Randomskk> split it up into pretty triangles
[22:17] <Randomskk> to be honest, GCSE maths, "cut the shape out and weigh it"
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> you missed out one key element
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> 'with the plastic scissors'
[22:17] <edmoore> that's like Archemedes' Palimpsest heuristic method
[22:17] <Randomskk> hehe of course
[22:17] <sbasuita> hey, in a level physics will i do any real maths or is it more speed = distance/time ?
[22:18] <edmoore> i don't remember
[22:18] <edmoore> i think just calculus
[22:18] <edmoore> and some exponentials floating around
[22:18] <jonsowman> there is calculus involved
[22:18] <Randomskk> not any more
[22:18] <jonsowman> really?
[22:18] <edmoore> what?
[22:18] <jonsowman> oh dear
[22:18] <Randomskk> modern a level physics has as little maths as they can get away with
[22:18] <sbasuita> : (
[22:18] <Randomskk> my physics teacher was whining to me
[22:18] <jonsowman> i had to to calc and exps
[22:18] <edmoore> how are you meant to do any physics without calculus?
[22:18] <sbasuita> we do more physics in maths than maths in physics
[22:18] <Randomskk> I mean, even at my level they didn't say "differentiate" or "integrate"
[22:19] <Randomskk> it was "this graph changes quickly here, so the velocity would be big here, but low here... oh look a sine wave"
[22:19] <Randomskk> i.e. differentiate x -> v, v -> a for simple harmonic motion
[22:19] <edmoore> oh look a bee!
[22:19] <Randomskk> but instead of saying it's a sine wave or anything, we differentiated by saying it was a bit steep here, etc
[22:19] <Randomskk> meanwhile instead of trig we had to draw scale diagrams
[22:19] <DanielRichman> the only thing that is worse is the fact that the physics teachers ask the class if we've covered this bit (eg. make x the subject) before going on to do it for us
[22:19] <edmoore> Randomskk: that's dire
[22:19] <Randomskk> and now apparently there's /less/ maths
[22:19] <sbasuita> :|
[22:20] <Randomskk> it's more "issues based"
[22:20] <edmoore> i think it probably depends on which exam board you do
[22:20] <Randomskk> yea
[22:20] <Randomskk> though the problem is apparently the new government syllabus
[22:20] <edmoore> our one had some decent physics in it
[22:20] <sbasuita> we do the welsh board
[22:20] <sbasuita> its a mess
[22:20] <Randomskk> changes the gcse and a level science
[22:20] <sbasuita> the mark schemes have calculation errors in them
[22:20] <edmoore> the welsh board
[22:20] <edmoore> ...
[22:20] <sbasuita> and they keep asking about which fuses to use
[22:21] <edmoore> electromagnetism and baa-aaa-aaa-aaack EMF
[22:21] <DanielRichman> steady on
[22:21] <DanielRichman> I'm not sure back emf is part of gcse physics
[22:21] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, ?
[22:24] b3cft (~abrock@host86-178-160-25.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: b3cft
[22:25] <sbasuita> i think it is
[22:26] <sbasuita> electromagnetic field?
[22:26] <sbasuita> or electromotive force
[22:26] <sbasuita> ;P
[22:26] <Randomskk> back emf probably isn't, emf probably is
[22:26] <Randomskk> most of my class hated the concept of internal resistance and emf, it confused them a lot
[22:26] <DanielRichman> back emf features in electronics gcse regularly as "do this or the transistor dies"
[22:26] <Randomskk> yea, it's in electronics/dt
[22:27] <DanielRichman> but it is a broader concept than that in physics? I don't think we've touched on it in a physics lesson
[22:27] <sbasuita> oh well
[22:27] <sbasuita> just need to make it through gcses
[22:27] <sbasuita> then a levels will be a breeze
[22:27] <sbasuita> maths+science+philosophy <3
[22:27] <Randomskk> hah
[22:27] <DanielRichman> haha
[22:28] <DanielRichman> grass is greener
[22:28] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, is philos. actually happening? you going for it?
[22:28] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i think it is very likely
[22:28] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, and i will do it
[22:28] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, its very interesting
[22:28] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, any idea how much time must be devoted to it?
[22:29] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, lots and lots of essays ;)
[22:29] <DanielRichman> no
[22:29] <DanielRichman> I'm not doing it
[22:29] <DanielRichman> That's settled.
[22:29] <Randomskk> yea essays are terrible
[22:29] <sbasuita> no they're not
[22:29] <sbasuita> just depends on the subject matter
[22:29] <DanielRichman> OK, I'll agree with that
[22:29] <Randomskk> nah
[22:29] <Randomskk> well maybe I've just never been given a decent one to write
[22:30] <Randomskk> "engineer in society" was this year's essay
[22:30] <DanielRichman> and the chances of being given a decent one are greatly reduced by taking a essay subject
[22:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, nah
[22:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, philosophy is like "Free will. Discuss"
[22:30] <sbasuita> you can write what you want
[22:30] <sbasuita> ;)
[22:30] <DanielRichman> the grass is always greener
[22:31] <Randomskk> sbasuita: but you can't really write what you want
[22:31] <DanielRichman> BTW: pretty please can we have the hourly-predictor set back for settings more alike our payload?
[22:31] <Randomskk> you have to write other people's considered arguments and quote and reference what they said
[22:31] <Randomskk> and then come to the conclusion that neither answer is correct and give a balanced summary
[22:31] <Randomskk> all the time
[22:32] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: yea, what are settings like your payload?
[22:32] <sbasuita> Randomskk, nah, there's plenty of scope for introducing your own arguments
[22:32] <DanielRichman> Ummmm. Hold on. Randomskk which numbers do you need?
[22:32] <sbasuita> you study the greeks to get you going in the right direction
[22:32] <Randomskk> ascent, descent, burst alt
[22:32] <sbasuita> grep the logs ;P
[22:32] <Randomskk> also launch location but I assume 52.2135, 0.0964
[22:32] <DanielRichman> where's that ascent descent calculator?
[22:32] <Randomskk> you grep them, I'm the one updating the predictor :P
[22:32] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I don't have the logs to grep. You grep them
[22:33] Action: sbasuita is the log master
[22:33] <Randomskk> calc is
[22:33] <Randomskk> http://cuspaceflight.co.uk/calc/
[22:33] <edmoore> i worked this out for them first time round
[22:33] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, ages ago I specified our payload's weight. I think it was 500g. see if you can find that conversation
[22:33] <edmoore> and...
[22:33] <edmoore> IU've forgotten
[22:33] <sbasuita> edmoore, d/w i'll find it
[22:34] N900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[22:34] <edmoore> the .json might be on the wayback machine :)
[22:34] <Randomskk> would it archive it?
[22:34] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[22:34] <DanielRichman> is hourly-predictions even web-crawler-accessible?
[22:35] <Randomskk> this is another reason for me to hurry up and play with some kind of login system for the predictor stuff
[22:35] <Randomskk> or natrium to get the new tracker started
[22:35] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, doesn't the ascent and descent depend on how much we fill the balloon? Or are we expected to provide that information in the "balloon mass" input field
[22:35] junderwood_ (~John@adsl.jcu.me.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[22:35] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: the calc tells you how much to fill it
[22:35] <Randomskk> based on what you give it
[22:35] <sbasuita> Mar 09 22:23:07 <edmoore> DanielRichman / sbasuita : so you can go to 35km at 4.5m/s. Yopu decent speed is 3.7m/s
[22:35] <Randomskk> balloon mass is your selected balloon
[22:35] Action: sbasuita basks in glory
[22:36] <Randomskk> json updated
[22:36] <edmoore> oh yeah it was a very pedestrian descent
[22:36] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, "neck lift"?
[22:36] <sbasuita> payload mass is 600g
[22:36] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: neck lift is how much lift the balloon should have excluding its own mass
[22:36] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, your glory is well deserved.
[22:36] <sbasuita> :)
[22:36] <Randomskk> in other words it's the ballast you should apply and then fill to neutral bouyancy
[22:36] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/ I'm not seeing the "fill amount" box
[22:37] <Randomskk> it's neck lift
[22:37] <Randomskk> that's what we use to judge how much to fill it
[22:37] <DanielRichman> ahh, of course
[22:37] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, balloon mass was?
[22:37] <Randomskk> we make a ballast that's the neck lift mass, then fill the balloon until it just floats
[22:37] <DanielRichman> cool
[22:38] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, 1200?
[22:38] <DanielRichman> ok
[22:38] <Randomskk> by 'we make a ballast that's the neck lift' I mean 'the one time I was there, we used a litre water bottle, some peanut butter, a spanner and a screwdriver and hoped that was about 2kg'
[22:38] <DanielRichman> the new shiny calculator says 5.14m/s ascent
[22:38] <jonsowman> Randomskk: that was a good launch
[22:38] <DanielRichman> haha
[22:38] <Randomskk> heck yes
[22:38] <DanielRichman> that's hilarious
[22:39] <Randomskk> that was when edmoore used the launch equipment box as a balance on the helium tank to balance the 1L of water against the other crud to see if the other crud was 1kg
[22:39] <edmoore> science!!
[22:39] <edmoore> it works, bitches
[22:39] <Randomskk> absolutely
[22:39] <Randomskk> shame I wasn't wearing my Science tshirt really
[22:39] <DanielRichman> :o you have one?
[22:39] <Randomskk> I do :o
[22:39] <DanielRichman> Anyway ~1hour until those numbers are reflected in the predictor?
[22:39] <edmoore> 20 mins
[22:39] <edmoore> 25
[22:39] <Randomskk> I have the one that's just Science and it has the shark with the weather balloon attached to it chasing some scientists
[22:40] <sbasuita> wow, i have 260k lines of irc logs since i installed ubuntu karmic
[22:40] <DanielRichman> how appropriate
[22:40] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, bytes?
[22:40] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, 19 meg
[22:40] <DanielRichman> percentage - by - bytes of obscenities?
[22:41] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, list of obscenities plz
[22:42] <sbasuita> $ grep lol * | wc -l
[22:42] <sbasuita> 2473
[22:42] <sbasuita> that's a lot of lol
[22:42] <Randomskk> lol I have 1.6 million lines of IRC logs
[22:43] <sbasuita> Randomskk, damn you
[22:43] <sbasuita> >_>
[22:43] <Randomskk> including 20,000 'lol'
[22:43] <Randomskk> 20k lol in freenode alone, that is
[22:43] <sbasuita> Randomskk, make a poster of all the lol lines
[22:44] <Randomskk> also: over 70k hits for 'Randomskk' in Freenode alone
[22:45] <sbasuita> hmm i have 18k
[22:45] <sbasuita> BUT
[22:45] <sbasuita> 18/260 = 7%
[22:45] <sbasuita> 70/1600 = 4%
[22:45] <russss> sqlite> select count(*) from backlog;
[22:45] <russss> 1667314
[22:45] <sbasuita> therefore sbasuita = more popular wins internet contest :D
[22:46] <Randomskk> russss: what client do you have that stores things in sqlite?
[22:46] <russss> Randomskk: Quassel
[22:46] <DanielRichman> something has gone horribly horribly wrong
[22:46] <Randomskk> sbasuita: 1.6mil isn't freenode though
[22:46] <sbasuita> ;(
[22:46] <Randomskk> admittedly it's almost all freenode
[22:46] <Randomskk> freenode is the biggest share by a long way
[22:46] <Randomskk> still 70k>18k
[22:46] <Randomskk> russss: that's quite neat
[22:46] <russss> the sqlite db is 250MB :/
[22:46] <Randomskk> these text file logs are shit, plus a load of them lack datestamps
[22:46] <Randomskk> 116MB of irc text logs
[22:47] <sbasuita> i need to stop going for the 'clean slate every six months' and start racking up these ircmiles
[22:47] <DanielRichman> the datestamps xchat adds are nasty
[22:47] <Randomskk> sbasuita: the trick is to run irssi on a server that stays on and connected the whole time
[22:47] <russss> the nice thing about quassel is that it logs everything centrally on my server
[22:47] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[22:47] <russss> irssi+screen would also work
[22:47] <sbasuita> Randomskk, but irssi doesn't do notifications
[22:47] <sbasuita> that's the only reason i don't use it
[22:47] <sbasuita> xchat has a nice flashy icon
[22:47] <Randomskk> it can do notifications
[22:47] <Randomskk> e.g. if you are running gnome
[22:48] <sbasuita> how?
[22:48] <Randomskk> or mac
[22:48] <Randomskk> irssi script
[22:48] <sbasuita> also does that work over ssh+screen?
[22:48] <Randomskk> yea
[22:48] <sbasuita> now i need to be able to minimise that terminal to an icon
[22:48] <sbasuita> i bet there's an app for that
[22:48] <russss> quassel will do that without the hassle
[22:48] <sbasuita> ;P
[22:48] <Randomskk> http://thorstenl.blogspot.com/2007/01/thls-irssi-notification-script.html
[22:48] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) left irc:
[22:48] <russss> see what I did there. I rhymed, unintentionally.
[22:48] <sbasuita> :/
[22:49] <Randomskk> however it's too much effort for me to cba, my terminal window flashes when I get an alert
[22:49] <Randomskk> that's sufficient
[22:50] <sbasuita> hmm this one claims to be real time
[22:50] <sbasuita> http://blog.ufsoft.org/irssi-notification
[22:50] <DanielRichman> use a BNC
[22:50] <Randomskk> clever
[22:50] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, no BNCs on my shell
[22:50] <Randomskk> I don't like BNCs as much as ssh+Screen
[22:51] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, get some more shell
[22:51] <sbasuita> this is win
[22:51] <sbasuita> running irc 24/7 is clinically proven to enhance e-peen size
[22:51] <Randomskk> it's true
[22:51] <fsphil> woo-hoo!
[22:51] <DanielRichman> <DanielRichman> something has gone horribly horribly wrong
[22:52] <Randomskk> you can tell by how I have many many more chat log lines than sbasuita
[22:52] <Randomskk> thus a much, much larger e-peen
[22:52] <sbasuita> it's true ;(
[22:52] <sbasuita> "Ok, now let’s go deep into installing a configuring this baby"
[22:52] <sbasuita> even the blog post knows it
[22:52] <DanielRichman> Do you want a larger e-peen? It's easy with this python script to generate random fake IRC lines; you can't tell the difference! 2GB in 2 weeks!
[22:53] <sbasuita> hah
[22:53] <Randomskk> haha
[22:53] Nick change: sbasuita -> sbasuita_
[22:53] <sbasuita_> (xchat just got relegated)
[22:54] <fsphil> I feel like I've just walked into an xkcd sketch
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> ?
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> oh
[22:55] Action: fsphil keeps an eye out for velociraptors
[22:55] <sbasuita_> the only issue with this plan is that my 24/7 torrents don't help with the ssh typing
[22:56] <Randomskk> depends on how bad it is and what your shell is like
[22:56] <Randomskk> for me the latency is minimal
[22:56] <Randomskk> but I don't torrent at all
[22:56] <Randomskk> despite this 100Mbps internet
[22:56] <Randomskk> mmmm delicious
[22:56] <DanielRichman> stop that
[22:56] <DanielRichman> that's not fair
[22:57] <sbasuita_> ;P
[22:57] <Randomskk> you'll get it too when you come to uni
[22:57] <Randomskk> well, most unis
[22:57] <Randomskk> it's only two and a half years away or so
[22:57] <DanielRichman> sbasuita_, you could set up some insane iptables rules to prioritise your ssh traffic
[22:57] <DanielRichman> :O
[22:57] <Randomskk> heck you might get 100mbps at home by then
[22:57] <DanielRichman> true
[22:57] <fsphil> 100mbps, but download more than 5MB and get capped
[22:57] <Randomskk> isn't it lovely
[22:58] <Randomskk> not quite that horrific but close
[22:58] <Randomskk> however it turns out there are good ways around that
[22:58] <Randomskk> namely, download through the PWF
[22:58] <Randomskk> who charge less for bandwidth, but to college it counts as internal traffic which isn't charged, but is throttled, but not between 2 and 7 am
[22:58] <fsphil> cunning
[22:58] <DanielRichman> But If I have a large download I leave it overnight anyway
[22:59] <DanielRichman> and then the difference between 10mbps and 100mbps is not going to be there unless you want the entire library of congress
[23:01] Action: SpeedEvil wants the entire library of congress.
[23:01] <Randomskk> but the difference is totally there all the rest of the time
[23:01] <Randomskk> everything just happens really, really quickly
[23:02] <DanielRichman> :(
[23:02] <DanielRichman> and you get ipv6, don't you?
[23:02] <fsphil> quicky question.. looking at the weight/parachute size chart. a 15" parachute should be fine for a 300g payload?
[23:03] <Randomskk> we don't actually but will shortly
[23:03] <Randomskk> my college doesn't, cam generally does
[23:04] <sbasuita_> bah remote notifications is just effort
[23:05] Xenion (~robert@p579FCCB4.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[23:05] <sbasuita_> i'll have a separate 'highlight' window in irris
[23:05] <sbasuita_> that i can just check
[23:05] <sbasuita_> that way i don't miss anything
[23:05] <sbasuita_> unless
[23:05] <sbasuita_> Randomskk, what method do you you use to get your terminal to flash?
[23:06] <DanielRichman> sbasuita_, you need to setup some 1337 screen scripts (or whatever) so that when you detach it sets you /away
[23:06] <DanielRichman> and when you re attach...
[23:06] <sbasuita_> DanielRichman, all the remote notification setups use proxies and other crap i cba with
[23:06] edmoore (~ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[23:07] <DanielRichman> have fun.
[23:08] <Randomskk> sbasuita_: it just does
[23:08] <Randomskk> sbasuita_: what I do is something else
[23:08] <Randomskk> yea
[23:08] <Randomskk> screen_away.pl
[23:08] <Randomskk> when I detach from screen it sets me away
[23:08] <Randomskk> when I retach it sets me back
[23:08] <sbasuita_> cool
[23:08] <Randomskk> on away it goes to status window
[23:08] <Randomskk> and on back it then shows lastlog
[23:08] <Randomskk> so all highlights while I was away
[23:09] <Randomskk> 18:30:40 [BitlBee] -!- You are no longer marked as being away
[23:09] <Randomskk> 18:30:40 -!- Irssi: 3 new messages in awaylog:
[23:09] <Randomskk> 2010-04-17 06:24:06#sparkfun: <cbx_> Tricia, nope, but Randomskk did something similar too, I'll have to find it on his site tho
[23:09] <Randomskk> etc
[23:09] <sbasuita_> nice
[23:09] <sbasuita_> gah
[23:09] smealum (~smealum@82.243.132.64) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[23:09] <sbasuita_> its alt+# to switch irssi window right
[23:09] <sbasuita_> doesn't work :S
[23:09] <sbasuita_> unless there's only one window
[23:09] <sbasuita_> [] [1]
[23:09] <Randomskk> it does work
[23:09] <DanielRichman> ??hab
[23:09] <Randomskk> rather it should
[23:09] <Randomskk> btw https://randomskk.net/u/highaltitude.html
[23:10] <Randomskk> that's not right
[23:10] <Randomskk> hmmm
[23:10] <Randomskk> something is wrong with it reading these log files
[23:10] <Randomskk> anyway though
[23:10] <Randomskk> sbasuita_: it is alt+#, or /window #, or alt+left, alt+right
[23:11] <jonsowman> Randomskk: we leaving half 8ish 2mo/
[23:11] <jonsowman> ?
[23:12] <Randomskk> yea
[23:12] <Randomskk> should be good
[23:12] <Randomskk> 9am start there
[23:12] <jonsowman> ok
[23:12] <Randomskk> have lunch in town I imagine
[23:12] <Randomskk> I think we get an hour
[23:12] <Randomskk> depends if there's more of it in the p.m.
[23:12] <Randomskk> actually you might want ot make that a little earlier
[23:12] <Randomskk> hand in deadline is 1 tomorrow for p.d.
[23:12] <Randomskk> we will want to hand it in before the workshop I imagine
[23:13] <jonsowman> will only take 2 mins
[23:13] <Randomskk> true
[23:13] <Randomskk> oaky
[23:13] <Randomskk> 0830 leave
[23:13] <jonsowman> dpo?
[23:13] <Randomskk> no
[23:13] <Randomskk> but nearly
[23:13] <Randomskk> design office iirc?
[23:13] <Randomskk> it'l be signposted etc and is on this bit of paper I have
[23:14] <jonsowman> ok
[23:15] fsphil (~phil@2001:470:1f09:483:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) left irc: Quit: Sleeeeeeeeeeeeep
[23:15] <Randomskk> should be fun
[23:15] <Randomskk> what do we do again
[23:16] <Randomskk> here it is
[23:16] <Randomskk> oh crickey
[23:17] <Randomskk> this desc says "is based on the manufacture of a small oscillating air engine, consisting of several parts, some of which are supplied, you make the rest and then assemble, includes turning, milling, drilling"
[23:17] <Randomskk> I swear I've read a different version of that which sounded less exciting
[23:17] <jonsowman> :)
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> ohh
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> a pulsejet!
[23:17] <Randomskk> this sounds awesome
[23:17] <Randomskk> the other one was like stick some metal together or something
[23:19] Jasperw (~jasperw@92.40.208.183.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[23:19] <Randomskk> so we come out of it with a little air engine to call our own?
[23:20] <Randomskk> knowing cued they probably take it from us actually grr
[23:20] smealum (~smealum@82.243.132.64) joined #highaltitude.
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsejet
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> it's probably not a pulsejet
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> that'd be too much fun
[23:20] <Randomskk> yea
[23:20] <Randomskk> they can't let undergrads have too much fun doing actual engineering
[23:21] <Randomskk> we might want to go into a career in engineering instead of stock broking
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> Could be a stirling engine
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> Which is still cool, but rather less explosions.
[23:22] <Randomskk> :(
[23:22] <Randomskk> otoh this is cued, they love jet engines to pieces
[23:22] <Randomskk> they invented them?
[23:23] <Randomskk> hah no, "dated back to before first century AD"
[23:23] <Randomskk> but they did something useful with them apparently
[23:23] <Randomskk> turbojet maybe
[23:23] <Randomskk> frank whittle
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtBmoUmiHTw
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> maybe one of these.
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:23] <Randomskk> I can dream
[23:28] DanielRichman (~DanielRic@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[23:30] DanielRichman (~DanielRic@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude.
[23:30] sbasuita (ssb@unaffiliated/drebellion) joined #highaltitude.
[23:30] <sbasuita> o/
[23:31] <Randomskk> \o
[23:31] <Randomskk> so I see you both have cloaks
[23:31] <Randomskk> it's all about ranger.randomskk.net
[23:31] Action: sbasuita begins ddos
[23:32] <DanielRichman> I like king j's host
[23:41] sbasuita (ssb@unaffiliated/drebellion) left irc: Quit: leaving
[23:41] sbasuita (ssb@unaffiliated/drebellion) joined #highaltitude.
[23:48] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, all working?
[23:48] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: too much customisation
[23:48] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, gave up?
[23:48] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: i will b e here all nigh ;P
[23:48] <sbasuita> DanielRichman: no this is irssi
[23:48] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, so will I with these undone english essays
[23:49] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[23:50] <stilldavid> quick question about radar reflectors...
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> shoot
[23:50] <stilldavid> I've read a little bit about it, and it seems that the surfaces used have to be as flat as possible
[23:50] <DanielRichman> oh yes I was curious about those
[23:50] <DanielRichman> are they necessary?
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> stilldavid: ideally, yes.
[23:51] <stilldavid> I was planning on using a space blanket or something attached to a frame, is that still the easiest way?
[23:51] <DanielRichman> I've used a basic one before for night sailing (solent)
[23:51] <stilldavid> doesn't seem like it'd be flat enough
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> stilldavid: space blanket is probably not actually conductive enough
[23:51] <DanielRichman> was a square made of triangles. (I don't know it's name)
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> I'm not completely surethough
[23:52] <stilldavid> I might consider purchasing one, but have no idea how much they weigh, I'd think quite a bit
[23:52] <stilldavid> as most are meant for marine uses where weight is not a top concern
[23:55] <stilldavid> I think I'll just use a space blanket on a frame, as per: http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:flight_support
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure a space blanket willwork effectively
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> I'd go with a square and two triangles of foil
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> you can get 60cm foil easily
[23:56] <SpeedEvil> I'd also do some googling to see if I'm wrong about space blankets
[23:56] <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure the resistivity isn't too high
[23:56] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: you can buy radials from hobbyking.com
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: ?
[23:57] <Laurenceb> someone on rcgroups made a quadcopter with one
[23:57] Action: SpeedEvil is pondering overclocking his phone.
[23:57] <Laurenceb> those radial engines
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> ah
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> a quadcopter - with radials?
[23:57] <Laurenceb> yes
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> Sounds F**ng expensive
[23:57] <Laurenceb> using hall effect sensors for RPM feedback
[23:58] <Laurenceb> http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8981&Product_Name=ASP_FS400AR_Four_Stroke_5_Cylinder_Glow_Engine
[23:59] <stilldavid> SpeedEvil, what kind of foil? aluminum?
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> yes
[23:59] <stilldavid> alright, I'll report back tomorrow with pictures.
[23:59] <Laurenceb> http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11029&Product_Name=Seidel_Nine_Cylinder_Glow_plug_Radial_Engine
[23:59] <stilldavid> until then, peace
[23:59] <Laurenceb> ^ wow
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> tape the edges with sellotape after cutting - and it doesn't tear easily, and is surprisingly tobust
[00:00] --- Tue Apr 20 2010