highaltitude.log.20100413

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[00:24] <ProjectCirrus> ok... does anyone know the name of a symbol which is a circle with four lines coming out of it's "corners"
[00:25] <ProjectCirrus> it's just that where dlfldigi should be showing $ its showing that
[00:25] <ProjectCirrus> and i have no idea what i'm doing wrong
[00:25] <ProjectCirrus> ¤
[00:26] <ProjectCirrus> thats it there
[00:26] <ProjectCirrus> what is the name of this symbol ¤
[00:27] <ProjectCirrus> anyone any ideas?
[00:30] <stilldavid> ProjectCirrus, That's the Euro symbol
[00:30] <ProjectCirrus> ahhh
[00:30] <ProjectCirrus> lol... google has zero results for it
[00:31] <stilldavid> not sure google does symbol searches
[00:31] <SpeedEvil1> sure it does
[00:31] <stilldavid> well, beyond the basic
[00:32] <ProjectCirrus> how is dlfldigi decoding it though if it isn'tr a standard ascii symbol
[00:33] <SpeedEvil1> it's not
[00:33] <SpeedEvil1> it's probably a font problem
[00:34] <SpeedEvil1> type a dollar
[00:34] <SpeedEvil1> in that font
[00:34] <SpeedEvil1> does it appear as a euro
[00:35] <ProjectCirrus> $
[00:35] <ProjectCirrus> ??? in dlfldigi's window its coming up as the funny circle
[00:35] <ProjectCirrus> ¤
[00:39] <ProjectCirrus> its ascii code 164
[00:41] <ProjectCirrus> which is exactly 128 too many
[00:42] <ProjectCirrus> for dollar which is 36
[00:42] <ProjectCirrus> so i must have the msb wrong in my code
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[02:27] <jiffe99> who all has played with the radiometrix HX1 transmitter? I don't seem to be getting the right tones out of it
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[02:52] <jiffe99> hmm, I may be reading this all wrong
[02:54] <juxta> jiffe99: most of us use the NTX2
[02:55] <juxta> I dont know if the HX1 can be used with a variable input voltage like the NTX2 can
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[03:45] <lukeyb> hi
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[06:07] <natrium42> yo juxta_
[06:07] <juxta_> hey natrium42
[06:07] <juxta_> in the car right now playing with the carputer :)
[06:07] <natrium42> sup? any launched planned?
[06:08] <natrium42> neat, netbook?
[06:08] <juxta_> ahh hoping to do one soon
[06:08] <juxta_> yeah i'm on a netbook right now
[06:08] <juxta_> but the carputer is a small desktop in the boot
[06:08] <natrium42> ah
[06:08] <juxta_> it does the decoding/offline mapping etc
[06:09] <juxta_> i just RDP to it, it broadcasts an ad-hoc wifi network
[06:10] <natrium42> cool, what do you plan to use it for?
[06:10] <juxta_> i'll put some photos up at some stage, basically it's just a small pc in an mdf rack, with an inverter, backup battery with a diode block (so i can start the car without browning-out the pc), radio receiver with CAT & a gps module
[06:11] <juxta_> for balloon chasing - the aim is to have it fully automatic in terms of tuning & decoding + uploading
[06:12] <juxta_> the main purpose being the offline mapping - because internet is so patchy here we use some mapping software with an API and plot to that
[06:12] <natrium42> gotcha
[06:13] <juxta_> this gps module takes a long time to get lock
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[06:23] <juxta_> still hasnt got lock, despite tracking 4 sats :(
[06:23] <juxta_> natrium42, you still about?
[06:23] <natrium42> yeah
[06:23] <juxta_> I was going to let you know - I was testing this last night and uploading to the tracker
[06:24] <juxta_> for some reason every point my car plotted was linked to the recent balloon in the US, if you follow what I mean
[06:24] <juxta_> the listener lines
[06:24] <juxta_> actually the module just got lock, you can probably see it now
[06:25] <juxta_> oh, not doing it now
[06:25] <juxta_> oh well :)
[06:25] <juxta_> actually, it seems it does if you turn the path for my car on
[06:29] <natrium42> hrm
[06:30] <natrium42> could you show me?
[06:30] <natrium42> oh, i see
[06:30] <natrium42> and i see why XD
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[06:32] <juxta> still here, just sutdown the carputer now
[06:32] <natrium42> yah
[06:32] <natrium42> it checks if callsign is contained in the vehicles
[06:33] <natrium42> but the callsign is ""
[06:33] <juxta> ah
[06:33] <juxta> so matches all then, hehe
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[06:34] <juxta> wow, that's a fair bit of drift from the GPS module right there
[06:35] <natrium42> fix0red
[06:35] <juxta> natrium42: is it OK if i remove the points I just plotted?
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[06:35] <juxta> awesome-o :D
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[06:37] <juxta_> yay netsplits
[06:46] <natrium42> hehe
[06:46] <natrium42> FreeNode being FreeNode
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[08:28] <earthshine> morning
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[09:06] <juxta_> hey earthshine
[09:06] <juxta_> you about?
[09:06] <earthshine> hey
[09:06] <juxta_> ahoy
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[10:16] <Futurity> Hi Everyone, is there a webpage that lists the estimated planned dates of balloon launches?
[10:18] <russss> nobody really knows the planned dates
[10:18] <russss> it's very weather-dependent
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[10:35] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
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[11:20] <Futurity> russss: thanks for the info. I wasn't so much looking for exact dates, just if there was a list of upcomming launches for this year and perhaps a rough month when launches are planned? I guess that the weather in the UK can stall launches for more than a month
[11:21] <russss> err yeah, not really
[11:21] <russss> heh
[11:21] <Futurity> no probs
[11:21] <russss> earthshine will be launching in a month or two
[11:21] <russss> I think rharrison has one in the pipeline
[11:22] <Futurity> I've bought my radio gear now and as you can imagine i'm very keen to try it all out. Perhaps i should start planning my own launch ;)
[11:22] <Futurity> Cool that 2 launches are in the pipeline
[11:22] <russss> jcoxon will certainly launch a few more
[11:23] <Futurity> btw is it possible to work out a rough altitude base on something other than gps data?
[11:23] <Futurity> I'm looking to launch a poor man's balloon due to lack of funs
[11:23] <russss> well some people have used pressure
[11:23] <Futurity> something very light and cheap
[11:23] <Futurity> cool
[11:24] <russss> what do you want it to do?
[11:24] <Futurity> i take it that temperature is far to variable to give a estimated hight
[11:24] <Futurity> to be honest,i think my first launch will be a case of just getting something up there
[11:25] <Futurity> i could start with a full gps tracked payload, but i suspect something cheap and chearful will be my first launch
[11:27] <Futurity> i take it that silver party balloons burst very quickly?
[11:28] <Futurity> i mean if i was simply to launch a beacon as a payload
[11:30] Nick change: jonsowman -> jonsowman|away
[11:31] Nick change: jonsowman|away -> jonsowman
[11:31] <russss> yeah, they don't stretch
[11:32] <russss> so you'd maybe get to 1-2km before it burst
[11:32] <russss> possibly less.
[11:36] Nick change: jonsowman -> jonsowman_away
[11:38] <ProjectCirrus> is anyone on here anything to do with the tracker?
[11:38] <ProjectCirrus> i just need to know how vital it is that my beacon sticks to protocol
[11:38] <DanielRichman> tracker is rharrison_ jcoxon and I'm involved in the client
[11:39] <ProjectCirrus> i have two euro characters instead of dollars....
[11:39] <DanielRichman> :O
[11:39] <ProjectCirrus> would happily change it but my programmer is dodgy atm
[11:39] <DanielRichman> I was about to say it would be fine, we can configure the client to do anything
[11:39] <DanielRichman> but those are non-ascii chars, no?
[11:39] <ProjectCirrus> extended ascii
[11:39] <ProjectCirrus> number 164
[11:40] <DanielRichman> Are you using fldigi?
[11:40] <ProjectCirrus> i'm bit bashing everything and all the letters and numbers have worked
[11:40] <DanielRichman> to receive the signal
[11:40] <DanielRichman> fldigi?
[11:40] <ProjectCirrus> with fldigi
[11:40] <ProjectCirrus> yup
[11:40] <DanielRichman> OK what O/S are you on?
[11:40] <ProjectCirrus> win 7
[11:40] <DanielRichman> grah
[11:41] <ProjectCirrus> :)
[11:41] <DanielRichman> record a wav of your payload and send it me
[11:41] <DanielRichman> (if you want :P)
[11:41] <DanielRichman> I'll test it with the latest dl-fldigi
[11:41] <ProjectCirrus> ok would do.... but my payload is currently being operated on
[11:41] <DanielRichman> careful there
[11:41] <DanielRichman> no rush :)
[11:41] <ProjectCirrus> it was in trying to fix the euro problem that everything died
[11:42] <ProjectCirrus> i'mhoping its just a transistor in my radio section
[11:42] <ProjectCirrus> because the radio si making scrambled noises when i touch the transistor casing
[11:42] <ProjectCirrus> which i don't think it did before
[11:42] <DanielRichman> ProjectCirrus, do you realise that Ascii 164 is 0xA4, and $ is 0x24
[11:42] <DanielRichman> it's one bit wrong
[11:42] <ProjectCirrus> yeah msb
[11:43] <ProjectCirrus> worked that out last night
[11:43] <ProjectCirrus> but the coding timimg has it done right
[11:43] <ProjectCirrus> as in right for $
[11:43] <ProjectCirrus> as it has for all the letters
[11:43] <DanielRichman> mmm
[11:43] <ProjectCirrus> but for some reason the timing is slightly wrong
[11:44] <DanielRichman> which modules are you using?
[11:44] <ProjectCirrus> and my msb is being picked up as a one instead of a zero
[11:44] <ProjectCirrus> picaxe 18x
[11:44] <DanielRichman> eww
[11:44] <DanielRichman> and the radiometrix?
[11:44] <ProjectCirrus> im literally turning an output on and off to create serial coms
[11:44] <ProjectCirrus> yeah
[11:44] <ProjectCirrus> ntx2
[11:44] <russss> woah, coax is expensive
[11:44] <DanielRichman> eh russss ?
[11:44] <russss> I suppose I should have anticipated that.
[11:44] <DanielRichman> only from Maplin it is
[11:45] <ProjectCirrus> example of code pulsout 1, 6000 '$
[11:45] <ProjectCirrus> pause 20
[11:45] <ProjectCirrus> pulsout 1,4000
[11:45] <ProjectCirrus> pause 20
[11:45] <ProjectCirrus> pulsout 1, 2000
[11:45] <ProjectCirrus> pause 40
[11:45] <DanielRichman> ProjectCirrus, hmm and your serial output checks out beautiful on your analyser?
[11:45] <russss> I was looking at farnell, but I just realised it's all listed as US stock
[11:45] <ProjectCirrus> ??????
[11:45] <DanielRichman> I mean, have you checked what the picaxe is putting out on that pin?
[11:46] <ProjectCirrus> well not in detail
[11:46] <ProjectCirrus> my scope is in belfast
[11:46] <DanielRichman> ah :P
[11:46] <ProjectCirrus> and i'm a mech eng so somewhat retarded with electronics
[11:46] <DanielRichman> I don't understand basic so can't help you there
[11:47] <ProjectCirrus> yeah well i was juston going to mess with the timings to see what was going
[11:47] <DanielRichman> what's the syntax of pulsout?
[11:47] <ProjectCirrus> but i was just wondering that if i can't fix it is it the end of the world
[11:47] <ProjectCirrus> pulsout inverts the pin
[11:47] <DanielRichman> well if you resurrect it I can try running a wav through dl-fldigi
[11:47] <ProjectCirrus> for the period of time specified
[11:48] <ProjectCirrus> sweet
[11:48] <ProjectCirrus> if its not the transistor i could be in huge trouble!
[11:48] <ProjectCirrus> if its the picaxe chip im screwed...... i only have one more
[11:49] <ProjectCirrus> which is doing the same thing when inserted and programmed
[11:50] <DanielRichman> So that code snippet you copied in sends 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0; which is start bit, 00100100 which is an ASCII $, where's the stop bit?
[11:51] <ProjectCirrus> working on it now
[11:51] <DanielRichman> no hold on, I'm reading that wrong
[11:52] <DanielRichman> if pulsout inverts the input to send a space
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[11:52] <DanielRichman> then that code is 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1
[11:53] <DanielRichman> which is ... wrong?
[11:53] <ProjectCirrus> yup
[11:53] Nick change: SpeedEvil -> n900Evil
[11:53] <ProjectCirrus> there should be 11 bits
[11:53] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[11:53] <ProjectCirrus> example heres C which works
[11:53] <DanielRichman> 8 ascii + start + stop = 10 bits?
[11:54] <ProjectCirrus> pulsout 1, 2000 'C
[11:54] <ProjectCirrus> pause 40
[11:54] <ProjectCirrus> pulsout 1,8000
[11:54] <ProjectCirrus> pause 20
[11:54] <ProjectCirrus> pulsout 1, 2000
[11:54] <ProjectCirrus> pause 40
[11:54] <ProjectCirrus> i've used 2 stop bits for everything else
[11:54] <DanielRichman> for the $
[11:54] <ProjectCirrus> only one
[11:54] <DanielRichman> <ProjectCirrus> pulsout 1, 2000 should be <ProjectCirrus> pulsout 1, 4000 ?
[11:55] <ProjectCirrus> durrrrr somewhat retarded
[11:55] <ProjectCirrus> thanks
[11:55] <DanielRichman> well see if that has a difference
[11:56] <ProjectCirrus> hopefully it will..... to be honest i'm more worried about my flight computer not functioning atm
[11:56] <DanielRichman> yeah; the C makes sense; it's 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1
[11:56] <ProjectCirrus> yup,,,, lets just hope a transistor swap out will fix the computer
[11:57] <DanielRichman> good luck!
[11:57] <ProjectCirrus> thanks
[11:57] <juxta_> are you launching today ProjectCirrus?
[11:57] <ProjectCirrus> nope... thank goodness not
[11:57] <ProjectCirrus> its scheduled friday
[11:57] <ProjectCirrus> am
[11:57] <juxta_> oh nice :)
[11:57] <ProjectCirrus> from middle of ni
[11:57] <ProjectCirrus> two beacons
[11:58] <ProjectCirrus> mine and fsphils
[11:58] <ProjectCirrus> so at least his will be reliable ;)
[11:58] <juxta_> haha
[11:58] <juxta_> I'll try to watch
[11:58] <juxta_> DanielRichman: are you still about?
[11:59] <DanielRichman> hi
[11:59] <DanielRichman> juxta_, yep
[11:59] <juxta_> hey - I was just going to ask what the current suggested version of dl-fldigi was - is it still r85? :)
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[12:00] <DanielRichman> hmm juxta_ not sure. There's going to be a release of the new github-hosted-dl-fldigi once we can get mingw compilation working
[12:01] <Laurenceb> hi all
[12:01] <DanielRichman> However yeah I'd guess that the current suggested v is still r85 if that is what it used to be
[12:01] <DanielRichman> hi
[12:01] <juxta_> based around 3.fldigi 20?
[12:01] <juxta_> erm, fldigi 3.20 even
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[12:01] Action: Laurenceb is getting roughtly consistent accel cal data now - looks like 3% cross axis between X and Y, and 0.5% between Y and Z and X and Z
[12:02] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: I'll probably go with ST for the accel
[12:02] <Laurenceb> looks like its fairly linear or I wouldnt be getting decent results
[12:02] <DanielRichman> juxta_, I don't know for sure. I only got involved on the new-github-dl-fldigi
[12:02] <DanielRichman> juxta_, O/S?
[12:02] <juxta_> DanielRichman: win32
[12:02] <Laurenceb> probably <0.5% nonlinearity but its hard to judge
[12:03] <juxta_> DanielRichman: xp mainly, but i'll be building it in ubuntu too I guess once it's ready :)
[12:03] <DanielRichman> juxta_, it looks like r85 is the newest build for windows http://code.google.com/p/dl-fldigi/downloads/list
[12:03] <juxta_> yeah thats what I thought
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[12:03] <DanielRichman> juxta_, building dl-fldigi (the new version) is very very easy on ubuntu
[12:03] <juxta_> I was just getting excited about this new version, hehe
[12:04] <juxta_> easy is good, I like easy
[12:06] <DanielRichman> the github copy seems to be of 3.20.0b9
[12:07] <DanielRichman> but it's pulled from the fldigi git so may be slightly ahead of that release
[12:08] <juxta_> DanielRichman: any idea how much better the 'improved' rtty decoder is?
[12:08] <DanielRichman> oh does 3.20 sport an improved decoder :O?
[12:08] <DanielRichman> I have no idea
[12:08] <juxta_> yah
[12:08] <juxta_> I think that's the main push for it, for us at least
[12:09] <juxta_> there was some mention of RS decoding capability being present too.. not sure on that though
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[12:19] <rharrison_> hey ProjectCirrus have you sent some test data through the client to the tracker yet?
[12:21] <rharrison_> If you can see euros signs in http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/view.php then you will be fine
[12:23] <DanielRichman> rharrison_, what's the 2-byte checksum?
[12:24] <ProjectCirrus> ok i'm not seeing euro signs but the problem in code is now quite obvious and is now fixed
[12:24] <ProjectCirrus> was my fault
[12:24] <juxta_> DanielRichman: the CRC16 sums?
[12:24] <DanielRichman> yeah I guess so juxta_
[12:24] <rharrison_> DanielRichman, http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dlistener
[12:24] <ProjectCirrus> just to confirm........ a transistor really shouldn't start going nuts if it's outer case is lightly touched... should it?
[12:24] <DanielRichman> rharrison_, that's the 1 byte xor/nmea checksum
[12:24] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: I'm getting some pretty good results from the acel now, the cross axis is quite large, 3%, 0.5% and -0.35% cross axis coefficients. I think the nonlinearity is below 0.5% but its hard to judge - everything is only consistent to about +-0.5%
[12:25] <rharrison_> crc16
[12:25] <DanielRichman> ok
[12:25] <juxta_> ProjectCirrus: shouldnt - is it a metal can type transistor? if so, maybe you're completing a circuit somewhere
[12:26] <rharrison_> hehe sorry that's not on the wiki will sort that out as I preferr CRC16
[12:26] <rharrison_> CCITT
[12:27] <ProjectCirrus> it is a metal can a bfy 51... but i'm not touching anything else
[12:27] <DanielRichman> I won't reprogram alien1, that will still use an xor checksum
[12:27] <DanielRichman> but alien2 I'll use crc16
[12:27] <ProjectCirrus> and it would be bad design for the innards to somehow be attached to the can
[12:27] <juxta_> rharrison_: yeah that threw me off for a while, i thought it was CRC16 (as in CRC16-IBM) that was in use, I wondered why my sums kept failing :)
[12:28] <rharrison_> juxta_, sorry about that. It uses a different polynomial
[12:28] <juxta_> haha yup, i worked it out in the end :)
[12:36] <rharrison_> ping DanielRichman
[12:36] <rharrison_> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dlistener
[12:36] <rharrison_> :)
[12:36] <DanielRichman> ah I thought avr libc had some functions
[12:36] <DanielRichman> great :)
[12:38] <DanielRichman> rharrison_, if (string[i] != '$') is not necessary
[12:38] <DanielRichman> well
[12:38] <DanielRichman> actually
[12:38] <DanielRichman> It's evil
[12:38] <rharrison_> :)
[12:39] <DanielRichman> It wasn't necessary in the xor checksum because there are two $s in the string
[12:39] <DanielRichman> and $ ^ $ = 0
[12:39] <DanielRichman> ie. no overall effect
[12:39] <DanielRichman> And if you want to ignore the two dollars at th e start of the string if (c != '$') is an evil hack
[12:39] <DanielRichman> but meh :P
[12:40] <DanielRichman> perhaps: /* Calculate checksum ignoring the first two $s in the string */ for (i = 2; i < strlen(string); i++) ...
[12:40] <DanielRichman> bbl
[12:42] <DanielRichman> rharrison_, shouldn't you use http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__util__crc.html static __inline__ uint16_t _crc_ccitt_update ??
[12:42] <DanielRichman> "Note: Although the CCITT polynomial is the same as that used by the Xmodem protocol, they are quite different. The difference is in how the bits are shifted through the alorgithm. Xmodem shifts the MSB of the CRC and the input first, while CCITT shifts the LSB of the CRC and the input first."
[12:42] <DanielRichman> (bbl for real)
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[13:02] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: would more data be of use?
[13:03] <Laurenceb> yeah maybe, if I could do a repeat of log2
[13:03] <Laurenceb> lots of datapoints seems to help, also it has to be steady
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> k
[13:03] <Laurenceb> the main reason for lack of consistency seems otbe it slipping slightly
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> I'll work out some better means of holding it tonight
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:03] <Laurenceb> thanks - sorry its tedious
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> np
[13:04] <Laurenceb> but I think this technique will work, and the ST accels are pretty good
[13:04] <Laurenceb> I'm thinkiing LIS331DLH
[13:05] <Laurenceb> or maybe the ST ntegrated magno and accel... but its not as good as the honeywell magno
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> e ST ntegrated magno and accel.?
[13:07] <Laurenceb> integrated
[13:07] <Laurenceb> LSM303DLH
[13:08] <Laurenceb> whats in the n900?
[13:09] <n900Evil> how much?
[13:10] <n900Evil> lis302dl
[13:12] <Laurenceb> £7 in single units
[13:13] <Laurenceb> its goes to 75Hz as opposed to 50 for the honeywell magno, but twice as noisy, 4 times as much cross axis and no figures for nonlinearity from ST
[13:14] <Laurenceb> http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/bd/17084.pdf <- I was just reading that - they have 100 ohm resistors on the I2C... cant work out why
[13:14] <Laurenceb> other than that pretty similar ot my board - gps and RF
[13:14] <russss> what's all this IMU talk for anyhow?
[13:15] Action: Laurenceb is making an IMU board
[13:15] <Laurenceb> maybe it reduces EMI from the I2C lines?
[13:15] <Laurenceb> as they dont get pulled down as fast
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> I can see that mag + accel wil crash in price too
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> well - to be fair - that is a crash
[13:17] <Laurenceb> I suspect ST will have an single IC IMU very soon
[13:17] <Laurenceb> just need to integrate their 3 axis digital gyro with that
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[13:20] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> though I question if there is a volume need for it
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> accel + gyro or mag - clearly great for phones
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> but both?
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[13:23] <Laurenceb> accel+mag+gps is good for augmented reality type stuff
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[13:23] <Laurenceb> and gyro and you can do really stable controls for games for example
[13:23] <Laurenceb> I was a neat app for iphone that overlaid information over the view through the camera
[13:24] <Laurenceb> so you can hold the phone in front f you and see stuf overlaid over the view
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[13:25] <Laurenceb> presumably using accel + magno
[13:25] <Laurenceb> tho if you wanted to be really clever that may be possible with computer vision
[13:28] Action: Laurenceb tries to work out difference between LIS302 and LIS331
[13:29] <grumbel_> yes, augmented reality is often done by tracking visual features
[13:29] <grumbel_> I wonder if navigation using a camera that faecs the ground makes sense
[13:29] <grumbel_> at least over land
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[13:30] <Laurenceb> seems to be just package - 331 is smallers - 3x3mm, but weird package LGA with 5 pins down two sides and 3 down the others
[13:30] <Laurenceb> grumbel_: optical mouse sensors can beuseful
[13:30] <Laurenceb> but limited range of lighting conditions
[13:31] <Laurenceb> with the right optics on the front they are useful as altimeters in most daylight conditions
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[13:31] <SpeedEvil> 302 is 18mg/unit
[13:32] <Laurenceb> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-422660.html <- grumbel_: cant find the pdf sorry
[13:33] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: my cal code found ~1LSB/G from your data
[13:33] <n900Evil> ?
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[13:34] <Laurenceb> you said the n900 uses the 302
[13:35] <grumbel_> Laurenceb, thanks
[13:35] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/kHCMbC3d
[13:37] <n900Evil> oh - sorry
[13:37] <Laurenceb> LIS302DLH datasheet has identical specs to 331
[13:37] <n900Evil> I forgot to say - it multiplies it out in kernel
[13:37] <Laurenceb> apart from "picollo" series as opposed to "nano" and the package
[13:37] <Laurenceb> oddly the analogue piccollo series have 100ug/roothz noise
[13:37] <n900Evil> so a reading of +180 is really +10 from hw
[13:38] <Laurenceb> as opposed to the digital ones that are 218 same as the nano series
[13:38] <Laurenceb> odd
[13:38] <Laurenceb> also no landing pattern for either of them in the datasheets :-/
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[13:41] <Laurenceb> guess I'll just have to copy an LGA and change for the weird number of pins on the 331
[13:41] <Laurenceb> anyway gtg, cya
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[14:29] <ProjectCirrus> ITS ALIVE :)
[14:30] <GW8RAK> Well done.
[14:30] <ProjectCirrus> it was a flippin coding problem
[14:30] <ProjectCirrus> me being stupid again
[14:30] <jcoxon> afternoon
[14:30] <GW8RAK> Also working on a Picaxe based payload and hoping to get that going soon.
[14:30] <ProjectCirrus> was using an old version of the flight program
[14:31] <ProjectCirrus> yeah picaxe is pretty simple.... ive just managed to make every mistake possible!
[14:31] <GW8RAK> Sometimes it seems like that.
[14:31] <ProjectCirrus> well... i can send you the ascii code table i constructed to help speed up your programming
[14:32] <ProjectCirrus> but i'll do it once i get this flight over
[14:33] <ProjectCirrus> lol i now have my dollar signs
[14:33] <GW8RAK> That would be very much appreciated. I've been looking at a couple of options for the 50 baud output including using a slow resonator to reduce the minimum serial port speed.
[14:33] <GW8RAK> But having an ascii code table is one of the other options. I don't need all characters, so the table doesn't need to be very big.
[14:33] <ProjectCirrus> i'd thought about that but didn't want to mess with it... you also have to remeber to switch to high speed or use another picaxe to read the nmea string
[14:34] <ProjectCirrus> yeah i did it for numbers and a couple of letters and symbols for the name etc
[14:34] <jcoxon> can't you use 2 gpio pins?
[14:34] <jcoxon> thats what i do on an avr
[14:34] <DanielRichman> Why do you need a table ProjectCirrus ?
[14:34] <DanielRichman> can't you just shift each bit out one by one?
[14:34] <ProjectCirrus> because picaxe can't do 50 baud serial
[14:34] <GW8RAK> We're obviously going down the same routes.
[14:35] <DanielRichman> but can't you bit bang it?
[14:35] <ProjectCirrus> heres the telemetry working... $$Cirrus,102234,10:22:34,54.345048,-005.381064,4,0K,
[14:35] <DanielRichman> ProjectCirrus, what does the table do?
[14:35] <ProjectCirrus> lol... i thought thats what i was doing
[14:35] <GW8RAK> I been having GPS troubles recently and forgotten some ofthe information, but I think there may be a way to output 50baud ascii directly.
[14:36] <GW8RAK> But can't remember how. Will have a look when I get home.
[14:36] <ProjectCirrus> ok the table im talking about is just an excel spreadsheet with the timings for each letter written on it
[14:36] <ProjectCirrus> just made it easier to program
[14:36] <DanielRichman> but can't you write a function
[14:36] <DanielRichman> that accepts a byte, c
[14:36] <DanielRichman> and bit bangs?
[14:36] <ProjectCirrus> quite probably
[14:36] <DanielRichman> ie.
[14:37] <DanielRichman> for (i =0; i < 8; i++) if (c & 0x01) put_gpio_high; else put_gpio_low; c <<= 1?
[14:37] <ProjectCirrus> almost certaintly... this is just the way i did it because it made sense to me.... i'm a mech eng.... no programmer
[14:37] <jcoxon> fair enough
[14:38] <DanielRichman> so you have a table with a function for each character that you might want to output?
[14:38] <ProjectCirrus> yup
[14:38] <jcoxon> i usually suggest to people to take the route of an arduino, nice GPS lib and the rtty code is very accesible
[14:38] <ProjectCirrus> its agricultural but it works
[14:38] <grumbel_> c <<=1 will set c & 0x01 to 0
[14:38] <Matt_soton> what picaxe you using anyway, the hserout on the X1/2 can do 50baud?
[14:38] <DanielRichman> wow. That will eat your ra,s ProjectCirrus
[14:38] <DanielRichman> *rams
[14:38] <ProjectCirrus> nope... only using about half memory
[14:39] <ProjectCirrus> 18x
[14:39] <DanielRichman> how much do you have?
[14:39] <jonsowman> ProjectCirrus: apparently the hserout capable picaxes will do 50baud natively
[14:39] <ProjectCirrus> think its 2024 on the 18x the newer ones are very capable but i purchased in ignorance
[14:40] <ProjectCirrus> i only ever wanted to do basic morse
[14:40] <ProjectCirrus> i got encouraged to use rtty
[14:40] <ProjectCirrus> and can now see the benefit
[14:40] <jcoxon> ProjectCirrus, am looking forward to your flight on friday
[14:40] <jcoxon> just got 1 question
[14:40] <DanielRichman> my bad grumbel_, I meant c >>= 1
[14:40] <jcoxon> what do you want to do about having 2 tracks on spacenear.us which will be over lying each other?
[14:41] <GW8RAK> ProjectCirrus - are you just flying a beacon or will you have data on it?
[14:41] <jcoxon> as they'll be 2 downlinks i guess
[14:41] <juxta_> maybe only have on displaying the path by default?
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[14:42] <ProjectCirrus> ok two telemetry streams
[14:42] <DanielRichman> ProjectCirrus, do you live underwater? http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=54.345048,-005.381064
[14:42] <ProjectCirrus> ohhhhhhhh crap
[14:42] <juxta_> also, my carputer is finished (asides from waiting on a CIV cable for my ICOM) :D
[14:42] <jonsowman> juxta_: nice
[14:43] <juxta_> jcoxon: it looks like fldigi can do rig control & tuning etc btw, there's a helper program called flrig I think
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[14:43] <jcoxon> juxta_, oh yes i know
[14:43] <jcoxon> its seems to be quite variable about getting it to work
[14:43] <ProjectCirrus> ok.... we are both putting out telemetry on the flight... though fs phil is sending down pics as well which will stop his telem for 5 mins at a time
[14:43] <juxta_> ahh
[14:43] <juxta_> hehe
[14:43] <juxta_> i just took a couple of photos, prepare to see this marvel of construction jonsowman
[14:43] <juxta_> space age materials in use
[14:43] <jcoxon> ProjectCirrus, okay cool then overlying is a good idea then
[14:44] <DanielRichman> duct tape?
[14:44] <jonsowman> juxta_: :D
[14:44] <ProjectCirrus> if possible i suppose
[14:44] <ProjectCirrus> fsphils is probably more reliable
[14:44] <jcoxon> yeah not problem at all
[14:44] <ProjectCirrus> he has the downwards whip antennae
[14:44] <GW8RAK> ProjectCirrus - do you have a launch time yet?
[14:44] <jcoxon> but they'll be gaps - you'res will be continous
[14:44] <juxta_> DanielRichman: surprisingly no!
[14:44] <ProjectCirrus> hopefully
[14:44] <jcoxon> you'll compliment each other
[14:44] <ProjectCirrus> lol
[14:44] Action: jcoxon sees the positive in it hehe
[14:45] <ProjectCirrus> well might need to check my gps
[14:45] <ProjectCirrus> currently im in an ocean
[14:45] Action: DanielRichman suspects the ddm to dd conversion, if you have one
[14:45] <jcoxon> could it be a conversion issue?
[14:45] <jcoxon> happens to the best of us, WB8ELK did it recently
[14:46] <ProjectCirrus> almost certainly
[14:46] <ProjectCirrus> aww crud
[14:46] <DanielRichman> ProjectCirrus, do you live here?
[14:46] <DanielRichman> http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=54+34.5048+-005+38.1064&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
[14:46] <juxta_> ugh adobe lightroom is a piece of junk :(
[14:46] <ProjectCirrus> i don't know even how to go about starting to find the problem
[14:46] <ProjectCirrus> yes
[14:46] <ProjectCirrus> i do
[14:46] <DanielRichman> goal!
[14:47] <DanielRichman> there's your problem
[14:47] <ProjectCirrus> do tell
[14:47] <ProjectCirrus> am i outputing wrong?
[14:47] <DanielRichman> mmm
[14:47] <DanielRichman> ok
[14:47] <DanielRichman> The GPS will give you Lat and Lon in "DDM"
[14:47] <ProjectCirrus> yup
[14:47] <DanielRichman> degrees decimal minutes
[14:48] <ProjectCirrus> understood
[14:48] <jcoxon> ProjectCirrus, the quick fix is to not do any conversion
[14:48] <ProjectCirrus> ohh and the conversion isn't simple
[14:48] <jcoxon> the server can cope with ddmm.mmmm
[14:48] <DanielRichman> ie. a number of degrees out of 360 then a number of minutes out of 60 as a fraction
[14:48] <DanielRichman> ProjectCirrus, it is simple, hold on
[14:48] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, sssshhhhh
[14:48] <DanielRichman> to convert you take the minutes part and divide by 60
[14:48] <DanielRichman> and slap that on the end of your degrees
[14:48] <jcoxon> just send the extracted string from the nmea
[14:48] <DanielRichman> FOR EXAMPLE! 54 34.5048 -005 38.1064
[14:48] <ProjectCirrus> the slap made it sound easier
[14:49] <ProjectCirrus> one problem
[14:49] <DanielRichman> 34.5048 / 60 = 0.57508
[14:49] <juxta_> marvel away: http://bogaurd.net/carputer/
[14:49] <ProjectCirrus> my code takes the ascii letters
[14:49] <ProjectCirrus> so i'd have to convert into binary to do maths
[14:49] <ProjectCirrus> then back to characters
[14:49] <DanielRichman> doing the same for the lon gives you 54.57508 -005.635107
[14:50] <DanielRichman> http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=54.57508+-005.635107
[14:50] <jonsowman> juxta_: that's fantastic
[14:50] <jonsowman> good job!
[14:50] <juxta_> hehe :D
[14:50] <DanielRichman> ProjectCirrus, not to mention you have to worry about the fact that it's not an integer. Does a picaxe do floating points straight out of the box?
[14:50] <juxta_> the velcro does a little too good a job of sticking it down in my boot
[14:51] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: no
[14:51] <juxta_> it becomes very difficult to remove after its sat there for a while
[14:51] <ProjectCirrus> the only floating point project cirrus has is in the irish sea
[14:51] <jcoxon> pah just send the ascii char
[14:51] <jonsowman> juxta_: haha
[14:51] <jcoxon> send lat and lon as they come out of the nmea
[14:51] <jcoxon> the server will do the rest
[14:51] <ProjectCirrus> are you sure?
[14:52] <jcoxon> just need to add it to the xml file
[14:52] <ProjectCirrus> im way too busy to care... if i had time i'd fix it but time is really not available
[14:52] <jcoxon> we add this feature a few weeks ago
[14:52] <DanielRichman> I (ALIEN) actually wrote some C to do the conversion without ascii to integer conversion and back, and without using -lm (math library) or any floating point numbers
[14:52] <ProjectCirrus> lucky me
[14:52] <DanielRichman> http://code.google.com/p/alien-flightcomputer/source/browse/trunk/alien1/atmega162/final/gps.c starts at line 239 but is very roundabout
[14:52] <DanielRichman> and hard to understand
[14:52] <jcoxon> ProjectCirrus, have you got a xml file yet?
[14:52] <ProjectCirrus> nope
[14:53] <jcoxon> oh yeah thats my job - need a example string
[14:53] <jcoxon> then you can get testing
[14:53] <ProjectCirrus> ok here one comes
[14:53] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, ProjectCirrus was also wondering earlier if r85 was the current to-use version?
[14:53] <ProjectCirrus> $$Cirrus,104116,10:41:16,54.345048,-005.381064,4,0K,
[14:53] <jcoxon> yeah for now r85 is fine
[14:54] <jcoxon> i'm a little confused about the cycle count - is that just the time?
[14:54] <ProjectCirrus> the 4 should be altitude and the 0k was going to be the temperature in kelvin but i simply don't have time to add the chip.... i have to do uni work
[14:55] <ProjectCirrus> yeah i agree.... it was supposed to be time but it looks way wrong
[14:55] <jcoxon> so the second field - 104116?
[14:55] <jcoxon> that'll slowly go up
[14:55] <ProjectCirrus> is the "time" to give a sequential count
[14:56] <ProjectCirrus> as suggested on ukhas
[14:56] <jcoxon> usually we just count transmission loops
[14:56] <jcoxon> but no worries - as long as it goes up
[14:57] <ProjectCirrus> it will
[14:57] <ProjectCirrus> my time field doesn't make sense though
[14:57] <jcoxon> what are the rtty details?
[14:58] <juxta_> has anybody tried to connect an iphone to an ad-hoc wifi network?
[14:58] <jonsowman> juxta_: yeh
[14:58] <jonsowman> never got it to work
[14:58] <juxta_> jonsowman: hmm
[14:58] <juxta_> the carputer broadcasts an adhoc network & shares its 3G internet connection
[14:58] <juxta_> works great on my laptop
[14:59] <jonsowman> but the iphone wont connect?
[14:59] <juxta_> nah, it asks for a username and password for the network
[14:59] <jonsowman> youre using no encryption?
[14:59] <juxta_> (I'm using WPA-PSK authentication... i think it's trying to authenticate with WPA, 802.11x etc
[14:59] <juxta_> )
[15:00] <ProjectCirrus> would that time make sense in utc
[15:00] <jonsowman> turn off encryption temporarily
[15:00] <juxta_> yeah, i figure it's probably that
[15:00] <jonsowman> then see if it feels like working
[15:00] <juxta_> but I dont have an iphone to test with ;p
[15:00] <jonsowman> ah
[15:00] <juxta_> I'll try it next time someone in the car has one, hehe
[15:01] <jonsowman> haha yeh
[15:01] <jonsowman> mine plays up every time with adhocs as well
[15:01] <juxta_> hopefully fldigi/flrig plays nice with my radio, then i'll have fully automatic tracking in the boot :D
[15:01] <jonsowman> what radio are you using?
[15:01] <ProjectCirrus> is UTC time ok for the tracker?
[15:01] <juxta_> it's an ICOM-706MKIIG
[15:02] <juxta_> ProjectCirrus: yes
[15:02] <jcoxon> ProjectCirrus, okay i've setup your xml file
[15:02] <jonsowman> ah right
[15:02] <ProjectCirrus> thanks.... it makes no sense to me
[15:02] <jcoxon> though your gps could be broken - well the longitude doesn't seem to be right
[15:02] <ProjectCirrus> cool
[15:02] <ProjectCirrus> ok whats messed up with the longitude
[15:03] <juxta_> jonsowman: the main purpose of the carputer is to run our offline tracking - we have very patchy GSM coverage, so we can't really rely on being able to access the google maps tracker
[15:03] <ProjectCirrus> is the decimal point in the wrong place?
[15:03] <jonsowman> juxta_: we've got (read: will have) a similar system in place for Apex II
[15:03] <jonsowman> we don't rely on internet connection at all
[15:03] <juxta_> ah right
[15:03] <ProjectCirrus> jcoxon... my code does shift it...
[15:04] <ProjectCirrus> to try and make decimal
[15:04] <juxta_> yeah - we just upload the data for everyone else to see :)
[15:04] <juxta_> jonsowman: what mapping software do you use?
[15:04] <jonsowman> also we're using APRS to communicate between chase cars
[15:04] <jonsowman> juxta_: Mappoint/APRSPoint
[15:04] <juxta_> ah nice
[15:05] <jonsowman> used it on Apex I with an interface program we wrote between the soundcard modem and APRSPoint
[15:05] <juxta_> at this stage I dont have APRS in my car, but the other car does
[15:05] <juxta_> in future we'll probably share our data etc through a local repeater or APRS
[15:05] <jonsowman> yup
[15:05] <jonsowman> that's our goal
[15:06] <jonsowman> we're working on getting fldigi and agwpe (aprs soundmodem) running on the same computer but seperate soundacrds
[15:06] <juxta_> I haven't used mappoint - I'm using OziExplorer, mainly used by 4WD enthusiasts here I think
[15:06] <jonsowman> fair enough
[15:06] <juxta_> but it has a really good API :D
[15:06] <jonsowman> anything that's got a simple(ish)API works
[15:06] <jonsowman> mappoint is just a TCP port
[15:06] <juxta_> ah right
[15:07] <juxta_> I wonder if mappoint maps are available for australia
[15:07] <jonsowman> apparently so
[15:07] <jonsowman> says google
[15:07] <jonsowman> only the older versions of mappoint have that nice TCP interface though
[15:08] <jonsowman> 2004 and 2006 are the european versions that work iirc
[15:08] <juxta_> hmm
[15:08] <juxta_> it says there's a web service available for aus
[15:08] <juxta_> but not offline maps? :(
[15:08] <jonsowman> hmm
[15:08] <jonsowman> shame
[15:09] <juxta_> ah well
[15:09] <jonsowman> there must be some map software around for aus
[15:09] <juxta_> Ozi does the job well I think
[15:09] <jonsowman> yeh fair enough :)
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[15:09] <juxta_> it doesnt do turn by turn etc, it's just bitmap type maps
[15:09] <juxta_> but there are some pretty good maps available
[15:09] <jonsowman> :)
[15:09] <juxta_> mappoint does turn based directions etc?
[15:10] <jonsowman> the 2004 version we have doesnt, i don't think
[15:10] <jonsowman> though we didn't have GPSes in the chase cars last time
[15:10] <jonsowman> ie. mappoint only plotted the balloon's position
[15:10] <juxta_> ah right
[15:12] <juxta_> jonsowman: when are you planning on launching again?
[15:13] <jonsowman> this summer
[15:13] <jonsowman> the project is being run & funded at my school, which the three Apex I members have now left to go to uni (including me)
[15:14] <jonsowman> so lots of the kids there are getting involved and doing things
[15:14] <jonsowman> but us three dont have much time during uni terms
[15:14] <jonsowman> when it gets to summer we'll have lots of time to finalise things, test kit etc
[15:16] <jcoxon> jonsowman, there is a plan with the new dl-fldigi to add in code to post to the APRS network
[15:16] <jcoxon> which might come in useful
[15:16] <jonsowman> jcoxon: that'd be brilliant
[15:16] <jonsowman> do you mean a packet modem built into fldigi
[15:16] <jcoxon> hehe no
[15:17] <jcoxon> as in repackage the received data and post onto aprs.fi i think
[15:17] <jonsowman> ah i see
[15:17] <jcoxon> though if you suddenly find time...
[15:17] <jonsowman> haha maybe, I'm not a programmer at all
[15:17] <jonsowman> it's something I need to learn
[15:18] <jcoxon> well anything new please do roll it into the dl-fldigi setup as well
[15:18] <jcoxon> as i'm sure others will find it useful
[15:19] <jonsowman> fair enough :)
[15:20] <jonsowman> jcoxon: at the moment our solution is to get receieved data from fldigi via TCP, and send that to either a TNC via serial, or AGWPE (on another soundcard)
[15:20] <jcoxon> i see
[15:21] <jcoxon> so a nice conversion function to the aprs format would be helpful
[15:21] <jcoxon> then we could either send that to aprs.fi over tinternet
[15:21] <jonsowman> that code is already written, but in visual basic
[15:21] <jcoxon> or onwards to a TNC or AGWPE
[15:21] <jcoxon> to make a sort of more standardaised interface for you
[15:22] <jonsowman> yeh that'd certainly be useful for us as well as many others im sure
[15:24] <juxta_> the ham who helps me has some code to parse data from his GPS and send it off over APRS
[15:24] <juxta_> not sure if it's C on one of the carputers of if it's on a PIC or something, will have to ask
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[15:25] <jonsowman> we have APRS<->UKHAS format conversion code but it's in VB
[15:26] <jonsowman> which isn't very useful
[15:26] <juxta_> hey jcoxon: is the RTTY in the newer versions of fldigi much better?
[15:26] <jcoxon> juxta_, ummm not sure
[15:26] <jcoxon> haven't really tested it
[15:26] <juxta_> ah righto
[15:28] <rharrison_> ipn jcoxon
[15:28] <rharrison_> ping
[15:28] <jcoxon> yup
[15:36] <Futurity> Hi Does everyone use different payload single chip computers or is there a standard one that most people use with standard onboard software?
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> pretty much mostly different
[15:38] <Futurity> i see
[15:39] <jcoxon> i think arduino is the simplest personally
[15:39] <jcoxon> a good gps lib is avaliable and the rtty code is also published
[15:39] <Futurity> is any of the onboard payload software opensource at all? I.e. rather than reinvent the wheel, for a first launch it would be good to go with a tried and tested payload
[15:40] <Futurity> then tweek the code to add bits and bobs
[15:40] <jcoxon> you can have mine
[15:40] <jcoxon> need to remove the ballast stuff of course
[15:40] <SpeedEvil> Or add a pump :)
[15:41] <Futurity> lol
[15:42] <Futurity> just leave it there pumping air ;)
[15:42] <juxta_> Futurity: pretty much everyone puts their code up I think, or will give it to you if you ask
[15:42] <Futurity> cool many thanks
[15:42] <Futurity> James, is this the code that sents the transmitter to sleep for a few hours and then wakes up as it nears another country?
[15:42] <Futurity> ;)
[15:42] <russss> we should link to all the code on the wiki
[15:43] <jcoxon> Futurity, only if you include a pump
[15:43] <jcoxon> :-p
[15:43] <Futurity> lol sorry ;)
[15:43] <russss> ah, there is a code page.
[15:43] <Futurity> Cool
[15:43] <jcoxon> russss, you name it - somewhere there is a page on the wiki
[15:43] <russss> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:code
[15:43] <jcoxon> a lot of that code is old
[15:43] <jcoxon> and random
[15:43] <Futurity> I've done Microchip PIC programming in the past, but its very low level stuff
[15:43] <russss> needs more github
[15:45] <Futurity> is the arduino coded in c?
[15:47] <russss> arduino itself uses a slighly preprocessed version of C
[15:47] <Futurity> i'll do some further reading up
[15:47] <Futurity> sorry for inturrupting the conversation
[15:47] <DanielRichman> arduino C is nasty
[15:47] <DanielRichman> stay awya
[15:49] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, perhaps we should start linking to people's repositories from that code page; loads of projects have them lying around
[15:49] <juxta_> it's not so bad, it will let you do what you want quite easily Futurity
[15:50] <russss> yeah, that's what I meant when I mentioned code on the wiki ;)
[15:53] <Futurity> To be honest i suspect the amount of C code is quite small? A tight loop getting GPS co-ords and sending this data out through a Uart at 50Hz, or do most programmers set an output pin high and low manually in the code?
[15:53] <Futurity> Within a timed loop i mean
[15:54] <juxta_> using the ntx2 I think most people toggle between a couple of pins to give varying input voltages to the transmitter, using a timed loop
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> yes, it's not a lot of code
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> the nasty part is getting it wrong.
[15:54] <juxta_> and yeah, it's not many lines
[15:54] <rharrison_> Futurity, the best way to see if a launch is likely is to monitor http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/ and look for when red dots are in the fens :)
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> Actually testing - or thinking carefully - about 0 lat/lon crossings for example.
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[15:55] <SpeedEvil> And what happens if the GPS dies
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> And ...
[15:57] <Futurity> rharrison: Thanks for the link
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[15:59] <Futurity> I think i'll start by building a test payload and then transmit as I do local driving ;)
[15:59] <Futurity> i.e. a car payload ;)
[16:01] <n900Evil> probably sane.
[16:02] <n900Evil> you will get a _lot_ less range on the ground though.
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[16:05] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:17] <GW8RAK> A work related question if I may. I'm looking for a system which will detect when an arm is pointed north and then light a LED. I can't position a GPS on the arm so need some form of remote sensor. Does anyone have any ideas please?
[16:17] <Lunar_Lander> what about a magnetic sensor?
[16:18] <GW8RAK> Could be suitable. I'm just trying to find technologies. It has to be ruggedised and able to withstand -40C
[16:18] <Randomskk> megnetic sensor seems like the easiest way
[16:18] <Lunar_Lander> I saw magnetic sensor chips which can do that
[16:18] <Lunar_Lander> I mean standing the temperature
[16:19] <GW8RAK> So these will detect when the chip is aligned with north and then trigger an output?
[16:19] <Lunar_Lander> I think so
[16:19] <Randomskk> well it's a bit complicated
[16:19] <GW8RAK> Can they be programmed to detect when pointing in any other direction?
[16:19] <Randomskk> they will give you the magnetic field vector in 3d
[16:19] <Randomskk> you then do Maths to work out your magnetic bearing
[16:20] <Randomskk> and can apply a correction factor based on position to determine true bearing
[16:21] <GW8RAK> So we'd need to know our lat and long in order to work out the angle of magnetic field to the vertical for the correction?
[16:21] <Randomskk> not really
[16:21] <Randomskk> if you know you're in the UK that's basically good enough
[16:22] <GW8RAK> Although potentially useful for the UK and moderate latitiudes, I'm thinking or 86N and S.
[16:22] <GW8RAK> and above
[16:22] <Randomskk> some kind of menu to input that data
[16:23] <Randomskk> or a gps if you have one anyway
[16:23] <GW8RAK> We have gps
[16:23] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[16:27] <GW8RAK> Does anyone have any part numbers for the magentic sensor chips so I can look for datasheets. Google produces a large number of hits, but these are predominantly for industrial applications with strong magentic fields.
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> LSM303DLH is one
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=1967220&k=HMC5843
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> is another
[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> I saw a NSX (Philips) one which said that it is for geomagnetic research
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> search digikey for 'compass'
[16:31] Nick change: jonsowman -> jonsowman_away
[16:31] Nick change: jonsowman_away -> jonsowman
[16:31] <GW8RAK> Excellent, thanks very much. Will have a good read this evening and see if they are suitable.
[16:31] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome :)
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> suitable for compasses
[16:32] <GW8RAK> I'll happily pay my usual finders fees.
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[18:47] <jcoxon> looks like the weather is going to get crap again in relation to balloon launching
[18:49] <russss> damn weather!
[18:49] <jcoxon> according to the cusf hourly forecast
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> hey jcoxon
[18:50] <jcoxon> hi Lunar_Lander
[18:50] <junderwood> jcoxon, Remember the predictor is set for a rather optimistic 40 km burst altitude
[18:50] <jcoxon> true
[18:50] <jcoxon> thats rjharrisons fault
[18:51] <jcoxon> but still it progressively gets further east
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon I can be heard on the radio :P
[18:51] <junderwood> I suggested they put predictions up for two altitudes at once but they seem to have exams on :P
[18:51] <jcoxon> oh wow
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> http://orbiterradio.thruhere.net/
[18:52] <jcoxon> hehe the CUSF machine takes some time to turn
[18:52] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, oh cool
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> can you hear the SlapChop?
[18:54] <jcoxon> my internet is very slow so can't do streaming
[18:55] <earthshine> evening
[18:55] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, sorry!
[18:56] <jcoxon> evening earthshine
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> no problem
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[19:03] <jcoxon> right bb;
[19:03] <jcoxon> bbl*
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[20:18] <Laurenceb> hi all
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[20:36] <Laurenceb> http://www.embeddedstar.com/weblog/2010/01/06/st-lsm303dlh-geomagnetic/
[20:36] <Laurenceb> "The ST LSM303DLH digital compass uses Honeywells Anisotropic Magneto-Resistive (AMR) technology"
[20:37] <Laurenceb> apparently its just a HMC5843
[20:37] <Laurenceb> sensor element wise - according to some forum posters...
[20:39] <Laurenceb> http://info.coventor.com/mems-products/?Tag=ST%20Microelectronics
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[20:41] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoresistance#Anisotropic_magnetoresistance_.28AMR.29
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[20:44] <Laurenceb> I'm wondering if its going to be as good as the honeywell magno
[20:45] <Laurenceb> the specs seem to indicate more cross axis but thats not the end of the world
[20:46] <Laurenceb> just wondering if ST arent using the same test conditions or something
[20:46] <SpeedEvil_> forex leadframe materials
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> may make a difference
[20:47] <Laurenceb> yeah
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> or mounting stress.
[20:48] <Laurenceb> if its basically the innards of a HMC5843 it seems silly not to use it - I had been thinking ST had developed their own sensor elements
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> it's the sensing elements, packaged seperately with a different ADC?
[20:50] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:50] <Laurenceb> Honeywell have seperate dies
[20:50] <Laurenceb> looks like ST produced their own ADC die
[20:51] <Laurenceb> and there are three seperate ones packed in there, LIS331 accel, the ADC and the sensors from honeywell
[20:51] <Laurenceb> you can see the pcb on some of the photos
[20:53] <Laurenceb> http://info.coventor.com/mems-products/bid/33483/STMicroelectronics-Unveils-MEMS-Digital-Compass-Module
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[21:04] <SpeedEvil> If they're cheating, and doing it the multichip way - then indeed the barriewr for entry to doing a INS on a chip is - comparatively - tiny.
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> compared to doing it 'properly' - and integrating it all on one or two chips.
[21:05] <Laurenceb> its pretty clearly multichip - I suspect they buy in the sensors from honeywell
[21:05] <Laurenceb> the HMC is multichip
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/8618414.stm :)
[21:07] <Laurenceb> lol
[21:11] <Laurenceb> http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/16941.pdf
[21:11] <Laurenceb> ^ the section on external mag fields seems to be lifted from the honeywell datasheet
[21:12] <Laurenceb> also the S/R cap and things for the sensor degaussing is the same
[21:12] <Laurenceb> its probably the same sensor chip
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> hmm. Seems plausible
[21:16] <Laurenceb> aha - something that was confising me - the HMC5843 can have RMS error down to 2.5milligauss with the right settings
[21:16] <Laurenceb> but the ST one just has resolution = 8 milliguass in the datasheet , but in the HMC5843 specs table that figure appears
[21:17] <Laurenceb> so the noise is probably pretty similar as the ADC resolution is approx the same
[21:17] <Laurenceb> just up to 75Hz sampling as opposed to 50 max on the honeywell
[21:19] <Laurenceb> so its would be singlble to assume it will be pretty linear like the honeywell - 0.1%
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> unless the ADC has bad linearity
[21:21] <Laurenceb> ADCs arent usually that bad
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> true
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> maybe the honeywell one has nonlinearity cancellation
[21:22] <Laurenceb> hmm thats a good point
[21:23] <Laurenceb> but I suspect not
[21:23] <Laurenceb> Gecksenator would know how linear Honeywell elements are
[21:24] <Laurenceb> but hes not online - he used "raw" sensor bridges connected to a 16bit adc in his IMU thingy IIRC
[21:25] <Laurenceb> I could read his code...
[21:27] <Laurenceb> odd about the higher cross axis too
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[21:33] <Laurenceb> http://repo.or.cz/w/openmag.git/blob/4d153b85b52a69eaa17d8b22756bddb93a54ca7c:/doc/Calibration.texi
[21:34] <Laurenceb> around line 21, non nonlinear for the magno
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[21:34] <Laurenceb> well that solves that one
[21:43] <Laurenceb> this get sthe BOM down to about £60 for single units
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[22:00] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:02] <fsphil> evenin'
[22:02] <jcoxon> hey fsphil, everything working well regarding the payload?
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[22:12] <fsphil> working well so far, ProjectCirrus is here now doing some bug fixing. two payloads are happy enough together so far!
[22:12] <jcoxon> good good
[22:17] <jcoxon> look forward to the launch
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tusb9260.html - not strictly applicable - but fun. stm32, with sata and usb3 interface
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[22:41] <earthshine> evening
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[22:48] <earthshine> Does anyone kno0w what the UV levels will be at 30k+
[22:48] <earthshine> as in the radiation in mW/cm2
[22:49] Nick change: jonsowman_away -> jonsowman
[22:50] Nick change: jonsowman -> jonsowman_away
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[22:58] <fsphil> our gps receiver seems to be causing the voltage to waver about a bit .. anyone seen that before?
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[23:10] <SpeedEvil> aren't you using a regulator of some form?
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[23:18] <earthshine> slightly off topic I know
[23:18] <earthshine> oops
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[23:21] <fsphil> we've a 5v regulator
[23:21] <fsphil> I think we just need to add more capacitors
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[00:00] --- Wed Apr 14 2010