highaltitude.log.20100407

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[00:17] <Laurenceb> Antenna gain: 60 dBi
[00:17] <Laurenceb> interesting to know
[00:22] <jonsowman> what are the checksum types suitable for the DL
[00:22] <jonsowman> I know CRC16 can be used
[00:22] <jonsowman> others (simpler) ?
[00:23] <Randomskk> crc is pretty simple on an avr
[00:23] <Randomskk> I believe the other one is XOR
[00:23] <jonsowman> this isn't an AVR
[00:23] <Randomskk> just xor everything and put the resulting byte as hex as the checksum
[00:23] <jonsowman> it has to be understandable to and programmable by younger kids
[00:23] <Randomskk> xor
[00:23] <Randomskk> but tbh crc and a library
[00:23] <jonsowman> ok
[00:23] <jonsowman> ta
[00:24] <Randomskk> xor is easy though
[00:24] <jonsowman> yup
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[00:24] <Randomskk> char checksum = 0 (or ff, whatever)
[00:24] <Randomskk> for each byte in message, checksum ^= byte
[00:25] <jonsowman> cool
[00:25] <jonsowman> cheers
[00:26] <jonsowman> is 8-bit CRC usable?
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[00:27] <Randomskk> probably? not sure why you'd use it
[00:27] <jonsowman> jw
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[08:44] <jonsowman> morning jcoxon
[08:49] <jcoxon> morning jonsowman
[08:50] <Randomskk> hey guys
[08:51] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yo
[08:52] <jcoxon> time to write a list of jobs for the day
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[09:03] <jonsowman> Randomskk: I guess I don't need to bring databooks/lecture notes?
[09:03] <jonsowman> and are we just working on ex. papers?
[09:03] <Randomskk> I doubt we'll move off examples papers unless we decide to just do tripos
[09:04] <Randomskk> I have databooks and lecture notes
[09:04] <jonsowman> ok let's go for examples papers
[09:04] <Randomskk> though if they're readily bringable it might be an idea
[09:04] <jonsowman> i'll just bring those
[09:04] <jonsowman> hmm tre
[09:04] <jonsowman> *true
[09:04] <jonsowman> ok
[09:06] <jcoxon> guys, anyone got experience with ublox
[09:06] <jcoxon> what airbourne mode should i go for
[09:07] <jcoxon> i would say a balloon is an extreme dynamic environment rather than a typical airbourne environment
[09:51] <jcoxon> wow u-center works really well in wine
[09:51] <jcoxon> i'm impressed
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[10:15] <rharrison> moring all
[10:16] <rharrison> Randomskk, We seem to have broken the hourly predictor
[10:17] <rharrison> hehe it's working now :)
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[11:35] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!jcoxon@host86-154-32-126.range86-154.btcentralplus.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, wiki.ukhas.org.uk
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[12:52] <Laurenceb> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=828-1003-1-ND
[12:52] <Laurenceb> cheap
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> mobile phones and shit ++
[12:54] Action: SpeedEvil has been whittling.
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4499887406/
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> what's the resolution/noise like?
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> you sent your board off for fab yet?
[13:02] <Laurenceb> nope
[13:02] <Laurenceb> bbl sorry
[13:03] <Laurenceb> noisier and twice as much cross axis as adxl345
[13:03] <Laurenceb> also no fifo buffer and it loses resolution as you increase range
[13:04] <Laurenceb> adxl345 is 13bit, +-16g
[13:04] <Laurenceb> so 4mg/lsb
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[13:54] <earthshine_> afternoon
[13:54] <juxta> hey earthshine
[13:54] <earthshine_> hey Juxta
[13:55] <earthshine_> Wow! 3 x RJharrison's
[13:56] <juxta> heh
[13:56] <earthshine_> so Terry - what's new ?
[13:56] <earthshine_> Any launches planned ?
[13:56] <juxta> not a whole lot
[13:56] <juxta> soon hopefully
[13:57] <juxta> just a bit flat out at the moment with real world stuff :)
[13:57] <earthshine_> When are you going to invite us all over for a barbie ?
[13:57] <juxta> haha
[13:57] <juxta> bbq is on me, airfares are on you ;)
[13:57] <earthshine_> fair enough
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[13:59] <juxta> are you launching soon earthshine?
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[14:00] <juxta> earthshine_: actually building a carputer at the moment too
[14:00] <juxta> waiting on my icom CIV cable to come from hong kong
[14:05] <earthshine_> juxta: My payload will be ready end of April
[14:05] <juxta> great :)
[14:05] <earthshine_> I have set myself a target of 1st May to have it ready to go - weather permitting
[14:06] <juxta> are you launching from CU?
[14:07] <earthshine_> Yeah
[14:07] <earthshine_> it's easier with the blanket NOTAM
[14:07] <juxta> yeah
[14:09] <earthshine_> Though I would like to try and obtain permission to launch from Kent at some time in the future
[14:10] <earthshine_> No idea if I would be successful but there is no harm in trying
[14:10] <earthshine_> So what is the carputer for ?
[14:14] <juxta> sits in the boot and will run dlfldigi and our car track software
[14:14] <juxta> plus control the radio automatically once we write that
[14:14] <juxta> also runs our offline mapping software
[14:15] <juxta> so we can see the balloon on the map without internet access
[14:15] <earthshine_> ahh a dedicated HAB computer - cool
[14:15] <juxta> it broadcasts and ad-hoc wifi network for my laptop to connect to, and I just RDP to it
[14:15] <earthshine_> neat
[14:15] <juxta> so that way the laptop isnt tethered with a million and 1 cables
[14:15] <DanielRichman> I think jcoxon was trying to do the same thing too?
[14:16] <juxta> ah I didnt realise
[14:16] <earthshine_> it's a good solution if you're planning on doing a lot of launches
[14:16] <juxta> well I had everything lyring around
[14:16] <juxta> lying*
[14:16] <juxta> with the exception of some velcro for it to stick down in the boot
[14:17] <juxta> I'm not using a SSD or anything in the PC.... and balloons tend to land down very bump roads here, so we'll see how long it lasts
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[14:17] <earthshine_> i take it is a nix unit ?
[14:18] <juxta> it would be, but the mapping software we use is windows only sadly
[14:18] <earthshine_> ahh
[14:18] <juxta> if I can find some mapping software which will take my maps & has an API, and runs under linux, I will be a happy chap
[14:19] <earthshine_> You should attach the PC inside a sprung cage so it absorbs bumps
[14:19] <juxta> could do that
[14:19] <juxta> but this has been made from junk so far really
[14:19] <juxta> so it's no great loss
[14:20] <earthshine_> might be if it dies mid flight though ;)
[14:21] <juxta> that would be a pain
[14:21] <juxta> if I were to do it properly I would not use a regular atx PSU, i would just use a DC supply
[14:21] <juxta> no need for DC -> AC -> DC just to power a PC
[14:22] <earthshine_> It would be easy enough to make your own PSDU to run off the 12v then step it down/up as necessary
[14:22] <earthshine_> *psu
[14:22] <juxta> indeed
[14:23] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[14:23] <juxta> someone egged my car last night, hurrah
[14:23] <earthshine_> bastards
[14:23] <earthshine_> you piss someone off ?
[14:23] <juxta> nope
[14:23] <juxta> i wasnt at my house
[14:23] <juxta> it was on the street a long way from where I live
[14:24] <juxta> second time it's been egged when Ive been parked at my girlfriends, maybe someone doesnt like her
[14:24] <juxta> or her neighbors, cause that's where I was parked
[14:25] <earthshine_> yep
[14:25] <earthshine_> anyway gotta run - catch you later
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[14:27] <Lunar_Lander> hi juxta
[14:27] <juxta> hey Lunar_Lander
[14:28] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[14:28] <juxta> not too bad, how about you?
[14:28] <Lunar_Lander> I don't know
[14:28] <Lunar_Lander> I'll know on monday if I passed maths
[14:29] <juxta> ahh :)
[14:29] <Lunar_Lander> the exam was crappy
[14:29] <Lunar_Lander> you had to make 100 points
[14:29] <juxta> i've not known a maths exam to be anything but crappy :)
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> and he put in three 50 pts exercises along with some 10, 15 and 20 pts
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> in the old exam he had these phase portraits
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> for 30 pts
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> he said that he removed them because the total points possible was too high
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> wtf?
[14:30] <juxta> :(
[14:31] <Lunar_Lander> I hope I made it
[14:31] <Lunar_Lander> i mean we got three attempts and this was the first
[14:31] <Lunar_Lander> but somehow I think that I should bail out even when failing once
[14:33] <Lunar_Lander> you know?
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[14:34] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
[14:35] <Lunar_Lander> juxta still there?
[14:35] <juxta> I'm still here
[14:36] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think?
[14:36] <juxta> about the maths?
[14:36] <juxta> I'm not sure... I've faled lots of exams before :)
[14:36] <juxta> ailed
[14:36] <juxta> failed* even
[14:37] <DanielRichman> People with the FT817: Do you have one of the cables for the back socket or just go for the 3.5mm audio socket?
[14:37] <DanielRichman> for receiving... how about for transmitting?
[14:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[14:38] <Lunar_Lander> I'll see how it comes out
[14:38] <Lunar_Lander> I did tasks wi
[14:38] <jcoxon> back socet
[14:38] <jcoxon> socket*
[14:38] <Lunar_Lander> *worth 150 pts in total if they are fully correct
[14:38] <jcoxon> but only for rx, not tx
[14:38] <Lunar_Lander> you need 100 to pass
[14:39] <juxta> dont stress too much about it :)
[14:39] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, back socket? which one?
[14:39] <jcoxon> data
[14:40] <jcoxon> so one i've got connect to do CAT and the other provides audio out
[14:41] <DanielRichman> Data? Does that provide audio out or does it demodulate and decode the rtty for you?
[14:41] <jcoxon> audio out
[14:41] <jcoxon> there is an audio in line on that as well
[14:42] <jcoxon> but you shouldn't really connect that directly to a 3.5mm jack
[14:42] <DanielRichman> On the data plug it claims "SQL, Data out (9600), GND, Data out (1200), PTT and Data In"
[14:42] <jcoxon> im personally going to get this: http://www.g4zlp.co.uk/unified/DM_MiniPRO_complete.shtml
[14:42] <DanielRichman> (on the site)
[14:45] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, so the CAT cable connects to the Microphone socket?
[14:46] <jcoxon> hehe
[14:46] <jcoxon> nope
[14:46] <jcoxon> as in the CAT format - to control the radio via serial
[14:47] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, so are you thinking about getting an 817 again?
[14:47] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I'm curious as to how you connect it to fldigi, say, to do data
[14:48] <jcoxon> i can't remember which data out
[14:48] <jcoxon> but that literally jsut goes straight into the 3.5mm jac
[14:48] <jcoxon> and so does the GND of course
[14:48] <DanielRichman> I see
[14:49] <jcoxon> thats from the DATA port
[14:49] <jcoxon> the ACC port provides control the of the radio
[14:55] <jcoxon> bbl
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[14:56] <Lunar_Lander> man first the math exam and now my dad annyoed me
[14:57] <juxta> about what Lunar_Lander?
[14:59] <Lunar_Lander> "why do you still have the water bottle of yesterday here? When will you empty the bin? It really needn't to look that way in here. Man, if I had the possibilities you have now, the room would look like something else"
[15:01] <juxta> ahh
[15:01] <Lunar_Lander> and now imagine that he walks out, turns around in the doorframe and repeats that about three times
[15:04] <GW8RAK> DanielRichman - just connect the data out and gnd if you only want to reveive with it.
[15:04] <DanielRichman> GW8RAK, what about transmitting
[15:05] <GW8RAK> Add the PTT line. Initially I had problems with ground loops and hence mains hum, so both made and bought an interface with optoisolators. They're about £25 on ebay.
[15:05] <GW8RAK> Works with all modes, except 9K6 packet
[15:05] <DanielRichman> Right so the Data 6 pin plug can be broken out to two 3.5mm connectors for audio in and out, and a PTT line
[15:06] <GW8RAK> Yes. The PTT line goes to the serial port on the PC and software commands that pin to go high or low. I have had some problems with USB to serial adaptors and prefer to use a true serial port.;
[15:07] <DanielRichman> fldigi seems to have an option where when transmitting it puts audio out on the left speaker and simply puts out +5v on the right speaker as a ptt line
[15:08] <DanielRichman> GW8RAK, The data plug concerned is exactly the same as a PS/2 connector (keyboards), right? Could just hack one together
[15:09] <GW8RAK> Data i/o is a 6 pin mini din and CAT is 8 pin. Is it the keyboard or mouse which is 6 pin? I think I cut the mouse off one and just soldered onto the cables. Cheaper than buying.
[15:10] <russss> both keyboard and mouse PS/2 have the same number of pins
[15:10] <russss> which is 6
[15:10] <DanielRichman> Why does it have two data out pins :X
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[15:11] <GW8RAK> http://www.g0hwc.com/m0aqc%5B1%5D.htm is the interface I bought
[15:12] <GW8RAK> The two data out pins are for packet radio, 1K2 and 9K6 bps. The 9K6 output comes directly from the discriminator and has a wider bandwidth to allow the higher speed.
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[15:13] <GW8RAK> And http://www.m0kgk.co.uk/psk31.php has got a very similar circuit to my home brew interface
[15:14] <DanielRichman> http://imagebin.org/92052 ?
[15:15] <DanielRichman> Those two Data lines, in and out, are audio data?
[15:15] <DanielRichman> or are they digital/serial
[15:15] <GW8RAK> IIRC, they are both audio out.
[15:16] <DanielRichman> both audio out? even the one labelled data in?
[15:16] <GW8RAK> Sorry, must think before typing. Both are audio.
[15:16] <DanielRichman> OK, cool
[15:17] <GW8RAK> It all works remarkably well.
[15:17] <DanielRichman> <jcoxon> but you shouldn't really connect that directly to a 3.5mm jack
[15:18] <DanielRichman> Is it safe to wire that data port to a pair of 3.5mms?
[15:18] Jasperw (~jasperw@92.40.139.190.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[15:18] <DanielRichman> and then connect to speaker out and line in of the PC?
[15:18] <GW8RAK> You can connect them directly to 3.5mm plugs, but isolating transformers are recommended.
[15:20] <DanielRichman> And that's the optoisolators you mentioned above? (I didn't realise you could easily opto isolate an audio signal)
[15:21] <GW8RAK> Sorry, just following this thread while working. The optoisolator goes in the PTT line.
[15:21] <DanielRichman> "isolating transformers"?
[15:21] <DanielRichman> (as in: what are these?)
[15:21] <GW8RAK> Much rather be playing radio than work this afternoon.
[15:22] <DanielRichman> :P
[15:22] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[15:22] <GW8RAK> Look at the second link I posted, these are two audio output transformers which you can get from Maplin (if you are UK based)
[15:25] <GW8RAK> Have a look at the following links, they describe soundcard interfacing well
[15:26] <GW8RAK> http://www.kc2rlm.info/soundcardpacket/1cablerx.htm
[15:26] <GW8RAK> http://www.kc2rlm.info/soundcardpacket/1cabletx.htm
[15:26] <GW8RAK> http://www.kc2rlm.info/soundcardpacket/1cableptt.htm
[15:26] <DanielRichman> Thank you :)
[15:29] <DanielRichman> Oh! "This audio pin is sometimes labeled "RX Data 1200 Baud", RXA, RXD, or PR1. This is the audio most suitable for 1200 baud packet."
[15:29] <DanielRichman> I thought it meant Serial Data at 1200 Baud :X
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[16:08] <Lunar_Lander> bbl
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[16:13] <earthshine> afternoon
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[16:33] <jcoxon> ping rjharrison
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[17:07] Nick change: haptiK -> shenanigans
[17:07] Nick change: shenanigans -> haptiK
[17:08] <rharrison> ping jcoxon
[17:08] <rharrison> Nice email
[17:08] Nick change: rharrison -> rjharrison_work
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[18:55] <fsphil> holy crap, 0603 parts are *tiny*
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[19:17] <Randomskk> fsphil: you should try 0402 and 0201
[19:17] <junderwood> don't sneeze
[19:17] <junderwood> (or breathe)
[19:17] <Randomskk> don't even look at them
[19:18] <fsphil> eek, I looked!
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[19:19] <fsphil> glad I only have to solder two this time
[19:20] <fsphil> how do they even make these things
[19:20] <fsphil> and smaller
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[22:00] <Laurenceb> hi folks
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[22:13] <earthshine> hey
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[23:08] Action: Laurenceb is still looking at accelerometers
[23:08] <Laurenceb> so many of them :-/
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[23:09] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:10] Action: sbasuita is looking at whipped MPs
[23:10] <sbasuita> so many of them
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> They are all - generally interchangable - the digital ones at least - with minor rework.
[23:10] Action: SpeedEvil is looking at the donuts remaining in the packet.
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> Not so many.
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> :/
[23:10] Action: SpeedEvil had meant to have a couple a day.
[23:12] <Laurenceb> http://gb.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/LIS331DLH/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu5vlrqIFXt5Q%252bJk07H1I8CCueqm%2fVo8wE%3d
[23:12] <Laurenceb> that looks crazy good from the data... but nothing on nonlinearity and cross axis
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[23:30] <SpeedEvil> Datasheets that utterly fail to mention noise are popular in digital accels.
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[00:00] --- Thu Apr 8 2010