highaltitude.log.20100402

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[07:59] Nick change: SpeedEvil_ -> SpeedEvil
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[08:47] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:48] <jcoxon> PBH-10 launch was scrubbed
[08:57] <DanielRichman> jcoxon,
[08:57] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, did you fix your git woes?
[08:58] <jcoxon> on the case right now
[08:58] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, clone your github then pull in my master
[08:58] <DanielRichman> (if you want to, that is)
[08:59] <jcoxon> yup
[08:59] <jcoxon> yeah am compiling right now
[08:59] <DanielRichman> the only QA assurance I can offer you is that it doesn't segfault as I start up
[08:59] <jcoxon> just had to work out the pkg-config fix i did originally to get it to compile
[08:59] <DanielRichman> but I'm moderately confident that it's stableish
[08:59] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, its okay - not like anyone is using it for mission critical stuff
[08:59] <jcoxon> sorry for messing up my github
[09:00] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, if you have pulled my master; make sure you have the latest (I pushed a few mins. ago)
[09:03] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, hmmm got latest
[09:03] <jcoxon> fldigi opens but fldigi --hab has a bus error
[09:03] <jcoxon> dl_fldigi: dl_fldigi_download() was executed in "parent" thread -1609513184
[09:03] <jcoxon> dl_fldigi: begin download attempt...
[09:03] <jcoxon> dl_fldigi: created a thread to perform the download, returning now
[09:03] <jcoxon> dl_fldigi: (thread -1341517824) performing download...
[09:03] <jcoxon> Bus error
[09:05] <DanielRichman> mac sort of segfault?
[09:05] <DanielRichman> eww.
[09:05] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, Time to educate you in the way of GDB
[09:05] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, $ make clean
[09:05] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, $ make CFLAGS=-g
[09:05] <DanielRichman> (warning: this will compile with both -O2 and -g which is not optimal but removing the -O2 is a pain)
[09:05] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, $ gdb src/fldigi
[09:05] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, gdb) run --hab
[09:06] <DanielRichman> (cause crash; then switch back to terminal)
[09:06] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, gdb) bt
[09:06] <DanielRichman> or
[09:06] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, gdb) bt full
[09:06] <DanielRichman> will tell you the offending line
[09:08] <jcoxon> okay just compiling
[09:12] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, any luck?
[09:13] <jcoxon> DanielRichman -> highaltitude99 - no need to flood the channel
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[10:07] <jcoxon> okay git is fixed - master is now 'stable' again
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[10:47] <Laurenceb> hi
[10:50] Action: Laurenceb needs a name for his autopilot board
[10:51] <Laurenceb> trying to think of somethig to call it
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[11:09] Nick change: MikeMc68_mobile -> earthshine_
[11:10] <earthshine_> morning
[11:11] <Laurenceb> hi
[11:11] Action: Laurenceb is trying to come up with aname for his board
[11:12] <Laurenceb> maybe plagiarise the SUSF naming convention and call it somehting like Pigeon
[11:13] <earthshine_> Ouija Board
[11:14] <Laurenceb> lmao
[11:14] <Laurenceb> do you run the earthshine webstore?
[11:14] <earthshine_> yep
[11:14] <Laurenceb> neat
[11:15] <Laurenceb> do you make anything or just buy stuff in?
[11:16] <earthshine_> the kits are made up but the rest is bought in - i have some ideas for producing PCB's for shields and things that if I ever get some spare time to do I will make and sell
[11:18] <Laurenceb> I see
[11:18] <earthshine_> making the kits is a very time consuming process
[11:19] <earthshine_> having to sort out, bag up and label 10,000 components per batch is not fun
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[11:46] <Daviey> earthshine_: Sorry, we'll stop buying them then :)
[11:47] Action: Daviey has bought two kits from earthshine_, and was thinking about buying a third. But i don't want you to go to any trouble earthshine_ :)
[11:48] <Daviey> earthshine_: On another note, my board seems fubar'd.. Searching online implied the firmware has become duff; but trying to reflash with a USBTinyISP isn't yeilding any joy. Have you come across this before?
[11:50] <Laurenceb> earthshine: do you have much solder kit?
[11:50] <Laurenceb> I'm going to order about 20 or more of these autopilot board, if you can make them up your welcome to the extra ones
[11:50] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[11:50] <Laurenceb> but you need a hot air tool at the very least
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> what is the bom - for just the stm and rf?
[11:51] <Laurenceb> < £10
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> I realised earlier, that it could be handy for much.
[11:52] <Laurenceb> oh I've redone the ground planes properly - http://imagebin.org/91327
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> remote controlled relay, or 1-wire or...
[11:52] <Laurenceb> the analogue, RF and digital are better seperated
[11:52] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:52] <Laurenceb> bbl
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> door enrry controller, ...
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[11:53] <SpeedEvil> wavde
[11:53] Action: SpeedEvil goes back to digging.
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> and carrying around railway sleepers.
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[12:02] <earthshine_> LaurenceB: I'll happily advertise and sell them if that's what you mean
[12:03] <earthshine_> Daviey: No trouble at all. Order as many kits as you like ;)
[12:03] <earthshine_> LaurenceB: No I don;t have any SMT soldering kit
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[12:09] <Daviey> earthshine_: did you see my other question?
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[13:14] <earthshine_> Daviey: What do you mean by fubar'd ? What is it doing (or not doing) ?
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[13:17] <Laurenceb> earthshine_: nvm then - I dont fancy making 20 of them up with my hot air kit
[13:17] <earthshine_> understandable
[13:17] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:17] <Laurenceb> I need to make a reflow oven
[13:18] <Laurenceb> I got all the parts a while back, just need to find the time
[13:18] <Laurenceb> also need a toaster
[13:18] <Laurenceb> - take out the nicrome ribbon and supports and use as the heater
[13:19] <earthshine_> Yeah i've been meaning to make a reflow oven too
[13:20] <earthshine_> So do you have any videos made from your UAV's anywhere ?
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> hawt
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> ebay has some nice cheap video camera to sd
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[13:46] <earthshine_> They do?
[13:46] <earthshine_> Oh like camcorders
[13:48] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:48] <SpeedEvil> tiny keychain ones
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> that producee quite good results in good light
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> someone strapped one to the rotor head of a model heli
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> which was fun
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[14:14] <earthshine_> cool
[14:16] <jcoxon> shame pbh-10 didn't launch last night
[14:17] <jcoxon> was looking forward to some tracking
[14:21] <earthshine_> US right?
[14:26] <jcoxon> yeah
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[14:43] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[14:46] <earthshine_> hi
[14:47] <Lunar_Lander> earthshine_ do you see a case for manned HAB?
[14:50] <earthshine_> manned HAB ?!
[14:50] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[14:50] <earthshine_> a) Very expensive and b) Full of legislation and red tape
[14:51] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[14:51] <Lunar_Lander> that is true
[14:52] <sbasuita> the red bull guys are doing it
[14:52] <earthshine_> with a lot of cash behind them
[14:53] <sbasuita> yep ;)
[14:53] <sbasuita> but still an awesome project
[14:53] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[14:53] <Lunar_Lander> did you ever hear of the XAP?
[14:53] <sbasuita> http://www.piccard.info/ ?
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> yes and www.mesasphere.com
[14:55] <sbasuita> no, looks interesting though
[14:55] <sbasuita> a permanent lab?
[14:55] <Lunar_Lander> not permanent, but up to several days
[14:55] <Lunar_Lander> the sad thing is that I offered that thing to Red Bull and Pepsi and Canon and so on
[14:56] <Lunar_Lander> and nobody replied
[14:57] <earthshine_> that website is atrocious
[14:57] <earthshine_> and wider than my laptop resolution
[14:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[15:01] <jcoxon> bbl
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[15:01] <Lunar_Lander> does anybody know Julian Nott?
[15:03] <earthshine_> no
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[15:04] <Lunar_Lander> he is a great balloonist too
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[16:04] <Futurity> Hi Everyone
[16:04] <Lunar_Lander> hello!
[16:05] natrium42 (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:07] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[16:08] <Futurity> brb phone call
[16:08] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[16:08] <Lunar_Lander> hi natrium42
[16:08] <natrium42> yo
[16:09] <Lunar_Lander> I saw a hilarious pic
[16:10] <Lunar_Lander> you surely know that IPhone has GPS?
[16:10] <earthshine_> hi
[16:10] <Lunar_Lander> hi earthshine_
[16:12] <earthshine_> hi
[16:12] <natrium42> right
[16:12] <natrium42> hi earthshine_
[16:12] <earthshine_> hey
[16:13] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander, i have an iPhone 3GS
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander> and some girl uploaded a naked pic at 4chan and the iPhone attached the GPS coordnates
[16:13] <earthshine_> lol
[16:14] <earthshine_> i bet she had quite a few 'visitors' after that
[16:14] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[16:14] <earthshine_> I have no sympathy for numpty's
[16:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:16] <Lunar_Lander> I don't know what the point of that is anyway
[16:16] <Lunar_Lander> I mean putting up images of that kind
[16:17] <earthshine_> exhibitionism
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> oh dear.
[16:17] <earthshine_> people that need to do things like that are just trying to be 'accepted'
[16:17] <Lunar_Lander> yes that sounds plausible
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> or are evil bastards that know how toedit exif.
[16:18] <earthshine_> lol
[16:18] <Lunar_Lander> LOL there is a pic which says "Brutal-Facesitting.com" in the corner
[16:20] <Lunar_Lander> I think I also could rip pics from adult sites and re-upload them there
[16:21] <Lunar_Lander> anyway
[16:21] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil did you have your driving test?
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: last one fell through - instructor did not turn up with car.
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> :/
[16:22] <Lunar_Lander> what is that ****? Isn't that like the fourth time you failed by default?
[16:22] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. it was not your fault
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> only 2.
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> or maybe 3
[16:23] <Lunar_Lander> here it is this way: student and instructor turn up together, examiner gets in
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> I was never going to pass the time I needed to dol brake rewpairs on the way there.
[16:23] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[16:41] <Futurity> hi guys back again
[16:41] <Lunar_Lander> wb Futurity
[16:42] <Futurity> i'm looking to buy a transceiver to help out with launches
[16:42] <Futurity> well tracking other peoples launches
[16:42] <Futurity> would a yeasu ft-790r be ok
[16:42] <sbasuita> Futurity, yep that's quite popular actually
[16:42] <Futurity> i think its 430mhz ssb
[16:43] <Futurity> cool :)
[16:43] <sbasuita> Futurity, it does ssb on 70cm, yes, which is pretty standard
[16:43] <sbasuita> Futurity, also its quite old, so not too expensive
[16:43] <Futurity> i know there is a mk1 and mk2 models
[16:43] <Futurity> does it matter which i get?
[16:43] <sbasuita> Futurity, dunno; never heard of mk1/2
[16:47] <sbasuita> http://ur1.ca/syyw :D
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[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> sbasuita so is that receiver also the thing I need to track my balloon?
[16:58] <Lunar_Lander> the Yaesu FT-790R?
[17:02] <Futurity> Had another phone call sorry
[17:03] <Futurity> yes the FT-790R is one of the good transceivers that can listen into 430MHz on SSB
[17:03] <Futurity> SSB is used because a limited low power signal (limited due to law regulations) can travel the furthest
[17:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> it's not really ssb. It's more using the radio to pull in a slice of spectrum that the pc then decodes
[17:05] <Lunar_Lander> I see that this is an amateur devide
[17:05] <Lunar_Lander> *device
[17:05] <Lunar_Lander> so I cannot buy it without license?
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> you can buy
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> you should not transmit with it without a licence.
[17:06] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> (apart from emergencies)
[17:07] <Lunar_Lander> I had a thought yesterday
[17:07] <Lunar_Lander> that it would be best if somebody of yours could come over hear to fix all the radio things
[17:07] <Lunar_Lander> but that would be expenses and so on
[17:07] <Futurity> yes you can buy
[17:07] <Futurity> you can listen
[17:07] <Futurity> just not transmit
[17:07] <Futurity> and the licence is dead easy to pass
[17:08] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> the setup is fairly easy
[17:10] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[17:13] <earthshine_> I have the FT-790R
[17:13] <earthshine_> Old radio but works really well
[17:13] <earthshine_> and can be picked up cheaply
[17:14] <earthshine_> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/yaesu-ft-790r-with-30w-amplifier_W0QQitemZ130378778391QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM?hash=item1e5b2e4717
[17:15] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:19] <natrium42> fett krass konkret
[17:20] <Futurity> earthshine: do you use the ft-790R for your high altitude launches?
[17:20] <Lunar_Lander> do you think it is good to have a radio guy on the team?
[17:20] <earthshine_> i will do yes
[17:20] <earthshine_> and i've used it to track other launches
[17:20] <natrium42> earthshine_, how are launch preparations?
[17:20] <earthshine_> for mine? Slowly but surely
[17:20] <Futurity> earthshine: i intend to track other launches first, before launching stuff myself
[17:21] <natrium42> earthshine_, ah, cool
[17:21] <earthshine_> yeah that's the best way to learn how to use the kit
[17:21] <Futurity> earthshire: is your ft-790r a mark 1 or mark 2? 1W or 2.5W output?
[17:21] <earthshine_> no idea
[17:21] <earthshine_> it's irrelevant
[17:21] <Futurity> true
[17:21] <earthshine_> you're not going to use it for transmission
[17:22] <Futurity> well i don't know if the reception is any better or worse between the two models you see
[17:22] <earthshine_> no different
[17:22] <Futurity> don't want to get a mark 1 if the mark 2 is what i need
[17:22] <Futurity> i see cool
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[17:25] <natrium42> jcoxon, \o/
[17:26] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[17:26] <natrium42> how are the exams?
[17:27] <jcoxon> exams!
[17:27] <jcoxon> not yet :-)
[17:27] <jcoxon> 17th may
[17:28] <natrium42> ah
[17:28] <Lunar_Lander> bbl
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[17:29] <jcoxon> natrium42, been following PBH-10?
[17:30] <natrium42> yeah, not clear whether they launched or not
[17:30] <sbasuita> http://twitter.com/PBH3/status/11455799645
[17:30] <sbasuita> no-go
[17:31] <natrium42> their updates leave things to be desired...
[17:31] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:31] <jcoxon> i'm sort of hoping its a bug they can fix asap and launch this weekend
[17:31] <jcoxon> as i'm free to track :-p
[17:31] <natrium42> :)
[17:31] Action: natrium42 should check out the condition of his HF antenna after winter
[17:32] <jcoxon> yeah they aren't too open
[17:32] <jcoxon> if they do get round to launching i'll sort out fldigi to decode and upload :-p
[17:35] <natrium42> :)
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[17:36] <jcoxon> wow uk predictions that land in the uk
[17:45] <natrium42> omg, where?
[17:47] <jcoxon> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/!
[17:47] <jcoxon> oops
[17:47] <jcoxon> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/ !
[17:47] <natrium42> whoa
[17:48] <natrium42> so... next weekend? :)
[17:48] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:48] <jcoxon> not me
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[18:02] <earthshine_> little too close for comfort that
[18:02] <natrium42> yes, but you could go with faster ascent
[18:04] <jcoxon> also i reckon its the beginning of an improvement
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[18:17] <earthshine_> let's hope so
[18:18] <earthshine_> i think there is a queue of payload's waiting to launch
[18:30] <jonsowman> hi all
[18:30] <jcoxon> earthshine, yeah quite a backlog
[18:30] <jcoxon> jonsowman, hey
[18:31] <jonsowman> hi jcoxon
[18:31] <jonsowman> anything interesting been happening in here
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[18:32] <jcoxon> not really
[18:32] <jcoxon> might be a wb8elk launch tomorrow
[18:32] <jonsowman> cool
[18:32] <jcoxon> and there could be a ZP launch soonish by the PBH guys
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[18:33] <jonsowman> ah nice, is that the postponed one from yesterday?
[18:34] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:34] <jonsowman> right :)
[18:34] <jcoxon> hopefully wasn't too much of an error
[18:34] <jcoxon> and we've been pushing on with dl-fldigi version2
[18:35] <jonsowman> ah nice one
[18:36] <jcoxon> beginning to be usable
[18:38] <jcoxon> right bbl
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[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> hello again
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
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[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> the three highest balloon flights were 48.5, 51.2 and 53 km
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> do you think this can be done with amateur HAB?
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> no
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[19:01] <SpeedEvil> it requires fecking huge zp
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> zp?
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> zero pressure
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> nonelastic
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> at 48km, the atmosphere is about 10* less dense than 3t
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> 35
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[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> the first balloon was 28.5 mil cu.ft.
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> to be strictly accurate - yes.
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> but rich amatur only
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> of course
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> what's the world record again?
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> 35 km IIRC
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[19:06] <Rjharrison_> Ping jcixin
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[19:06] <Rjharrison_> iPhone
[19:08] <Rjharrison_> Hi lunar_lander
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> I saw your CNN appearance
[19:08] <Rjharrison_> Jcoxi
[19:08] <Rjharrison_> Jcoxon
[19:09] <Rjharrison_> Lunar hehe
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> do you already have ideas how to incorporate schools?
[19:09] <Rjharrison_> V
[19:09] <Rjharrison_> No
[19:09] <Rjharrison_> I'm working on that
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> me too
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> I wrote a letter to my former high-school
[19:09] <Rjharrison_> Jcoxon you about
[19:10] <Rjharrison_> Cool
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> let's see what they'll say
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> also I did one more try at sponsoring
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> wanna guess who I asked?
[19:10] <Rjharrison_> Lunar, I'm on radio 4 tomorrow around 9-10am
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:11] <Rjharrison_> Virgin galactic?
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> no
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> Toshiba
[19:11] <Rjharrison_> Cool
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> I mean, they used HAB for their ad
[19:12] <Rjharrison_> Yep the chair
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[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> but I think the sides broke off after the balloon burst
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> oh
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[19:14] <Rjharrison_> Give me an andriod
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[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> what is the World Record?=
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[20:24] <fsphil> for what?
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> for altitude in Amateur HAB
[20:28] <jonsowman> 115k feet ish isnt it?
[20:29] <jiffe1> http://www.arhab.org/ARHABrecords.htm
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> ah thank you
[20:31] <jonsowman> 128 k ft
[20:31] <jonsowman> blimey
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> he surely made an extreme effort
[20:35] <jonsowman> impressive
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> probably he used a light balloon, light payload
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> do you think that 130 Kilofeet is the probable maximum?
[20:43] <fsphil> would hydrogen rather than helium help the altitude any?
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> I think it just makes a higher ascent rate
[20:47] <jonsowman> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/
[20:48] <jonsowman> have a play with changing gas to H/He
[20:49] <fsphil> ah, forgot how awesome that was
[20:49] <fsphil> much faster ascent
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea and 500 m higher
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> wow, Methane actually gives a max altitude which is 4000 m lower
[20:53] <fsphil> hmmm 40km with a light enough payload is possible
[20:56] <fsphil> how expensive is a 3kg balloon + helium?
[20:56] <fsphil> I'm betting a LOT
[20:59] <jiffe1> I think the balloon is over $200
[20:59] <jiffe1> at least through kaymont
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> h2 is cheaper.
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> methane nearly feee
[20:59] <fsphil> why isn't it used more? (H2)
[20:59] <fsphil> other than being explosive that is
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> look on youtube
[21:00] <fsphil> heck I can make the stuff myself, just don't know how to store it :)
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> a larex balloon filled with a couple of m^2 and torched is basically a 1s bonfire pplus a flaming carrier vag thrown around
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> bag
[21:02] <fsphil> so, avoid
[21:02] <fsphil> maybe a mix of the two
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> well - not really
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> wearing minimally fireproof stuff with a bucket of water, and you're fine
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[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> sorry for the delay
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> I miss something in the new calculator jonsowman
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> the actual volume of gas to be filled into the balloon
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[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> natrium42 hello
[21:36] <natrium42> moinsen
[21:36] <natrium42> was geht ab?
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> everything is good
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> and you?
[21:38] <natrium42> good to hear
[21:38] <natrium42> likewise
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> that is great
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> I still think about that Radio system
[21:40] <natrium42> just use iridium
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> iridium? the Satellite System`?
[21:41] <natrium42> yeah
[21:41] <natrium42> works everywhere
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> can you elaborate on that a bit please? IIRC one minute of Iridium Phone costs 10 Euros
[21:43] <natrium42> nah, more like 1 euro
[21:44] <natrium42> 500 minutes cost around USD 700
[21:44] <natrium42> data rate is 2200 baud or so
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> I think the 433 system would be better
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[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> oh **** I'm tired
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> sorry for that natrium42
[21:50] <russss> natrium42: don't they have a proper packet-switched data system now?
[21:51] <natrium42> iridium? i don't think so
[21:51] <natrium42> there's BGAN
[21:51] <russss> ah yes
[21:51] <russss> that's inmarsat
[21:51] <russss> and that was what I was thinking of.
[21:51] <natrium42> yeah
[21:52] <russss> their pricing actually seems to be cheaper than my mobile phone roaming charges outside of the EU.
[21:52] <natrium42> haha
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> lol
[21:52] <natrium42> yep, it's cheaper to use iridium phone when i am in US
[21:53] <natrium42> rather than my canadian cell phone
[21:55] <natrium42> russss, BGAN doesn't cover polar regions
[21:55] <natrium42> http://www.inmarsat.com/Services/Land/BGAN/Coverage.aspx?language=EN&textonly=False
[21:56] <russss> ah yes, they're GEO aren't they
[21:56] <natrium42> doubt it
[21:56] <natrium42> latency would be too high
[21:56] <natrium42> speed of light, etc
[21:57] <russss> no, it's true
[21:57] <natrium42> hmm, you're right
[21:57] <natrium42> 3 geostationary satellites
[21:58] <natrium42> "Common latency is 1–1.5 seconds round trip for the Background IP servic"
[21:58] <russss> I'm surprised the antennas are as small as they are in that case
[21:58] <natrium42> patch antennas, right?
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[22:00] <russss> they have a relatively normally sized phone coming out http://www.inmarsat.com/Services/Land/IsatPhone/default.aspx?language=EN&textonly=False
[22:00] <russss> which is fairly impressive
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[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[22:01] <russss> I guess at least you don't have to worry about doppler shift in GEO
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> because the satellites are stationary
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[22:11] <terry> Gday, does anyone here have any experience with the Radiometric radio modules?
[22:11] <terry> Radiometrix, rather.
[22:11] <russss> lots of people here do
[22:12] Action: russss has not got any direct experience but could probably answer any reasonably simple questions
[22:12] <terry> that's great. hmm. ok. Are they using them for RTTY or APRS or both?
[22:12] <russss> the UKHAS Way (tm
[22:12] <russss> )
[22:12] <russss> is to use them for RTTY
[22:12] <Randomskk> rtty here
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[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> is it difficult to connect the Radiometrix module?
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> it has a strange socket
[22:13] <russss> I would guess your power budget is probably going to be dicey at best for APRS.
[22:13] <russss> it's just a SIL module
[22:14] <Randomskk> you can breadboard or solder it to some prototyping board or etc
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> is there a step-by-step guide how to set up a balloon radio?
[22:15] <russss> there is http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:radio_modules
[22:15] <terry> I'd ideally like to use an HX1, and I'm looking at the data sheet. I'm a bit confused about what they're expecting on the TXD pin, is it audio or data?
[22:15] <russss> and http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:licence_exempt
[22:16] <russss> terry: it's audio, effectively (see the first link I posted)
[22:16] <russss> frequency is proportional to voltage
[22:16] <russss> presumably the HX1 is the same as the NTX2
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> thank you
[22:17] <russss> in that regard
[22:18] <terry> russss: ok, so those graphs are showing frequency deviation vs input voltage?
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> russss do you think that having a radioman on the team is good?
[22:19] <russss> terry: yep
[22:19] <terry> thanks! that's great.
[22:20] <russss> terry: so we use that to send an SSB signal (not FM). The code for that is around somewhere.
[22:20] <terry> So when you guys use RTTY, what is your transmitter duty cycle? 100%?
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:21] <terry> russ: ok, for RTTY SSB makes sense.
[22:21] <terry> you're using FSK, not AFSK.
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> +350hz for a 1
[22:21] <russss> well, it's AFSK if you're listening to it using an SSB receiver
[22:21] <terry> the downside is that the receivers your recovery team(s) use must be SSB capable.
[22:22] <russss> yep
[22:22] <terry> I see.
[22:22] <terry> The upside of course is that you get much better bang for your buck in terms of power.
[22:23] <terry> signal/noise ratio can be much lower.
[22:23] <terry> all good.
[22:23] <terry> something to consider.
[22:23] <russss> since we can only use 10mW TX power that issue is somewhat essential
[22:24] <terry> I'm not limited in that way, so I can afford to be a bit less frugal, but it's still worth serious consideration.
[22:25] <terry> Using RTTY also means you can use a very simple controller, you could convince a PIC to do RTTY pretty easily.
[22:25] <terry> I can see the sense of it.
[22:25] <Randomskk> it is just serial output
[22:25] <Randomskk> very easy to do
[22:25] <terry> yes
[22:25] <russss> if you use RTTY you have the advantage of being able to use our excellent tracker system ;)
[22:26] <Randomskk> well technically no
[22:26] <Randomskk> you can use dl-fldigi system on any encoding
[22:26] <russss> true
[22:26] <Randomskk> 434mhz ssb is the safest bet in terms of having receivers
[22:26] <Randomskk> but things like mfsk, olivia etc would all work
[22:26] <russss> I suppose if you've got enough link power you might be able to use something a bit more swanky
[22:27] <terry> We're working up to flight number 1, so keeping it simple seems like the sensible thing to do.
[22:30] <terry> These modules look incredibly easy to use.
[22:30] <Randomskk> they really are
[22:31] <Randomskk> jonsowman and I put together a tracke witha gps, arduino and ntx2 in ike a few ours in the lab
[22:34] <terry> nice.
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> congratulations
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> I think I can never be so good in radio
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[22:41] <jcoxon> anyone free to test out the latest version of dl-fldigi
[22:41] <jcoxon> it'll only compile in osx and linux though
[22:41] <jcoxon> haven't dared look at windows
[22:43] <Laurenceb> heh jcoxon
[22:43] <Laurenceb> whats different about dl-fldigi?
[22:43] Action: Laurenceb hasnt been following sorry
[22:44] <Laurenceb> rjharrison: see you are on radio 4 tomorrow
[22:44] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, complete rewrite
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> in java.
[22:45] <Laurenceb> nice, including the modem?
[22:45] <jcoxon> http://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> oh - that was yesterday
[22:45] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, no - based on the latest version of fldigi
[22:45] <jcoxon> so its got newer version of some of the modems
[22:46] <Laurenceb> I see, so whats different?
[22:46] <terry> A rewrite in Java?
[22:46] Action: Laurenceb neads to read the modem code to see how it works - I did write my own modem code but it wasnt finished
[22:46] <jcoxon> a special GUI for hab
[22:46] <Laurenceb> ah I see
[22:47] <Laurenceb> maybe itd be nice to rewrite the code for RTTY to do proper FLL/DLL
[22:47] <terry> jcoxon: You re-implemented the modems in Java? What license is it covered by?
[22:47] <Laurenceb> I'll take a look asap
[22:47] <jcoxon> terry, no no
[22:47] <terry> oh
[22:48] <jcoxon> no java - SpeedEvil is being annoying
[22:48] <terry> oh.
[22:48] <terry> damn.
[22:48] <terry> I was getting excited for a moment.
[22:48] <Randomskk> but why
[22:48] <terry> I'm looking for a good opensource java implementation of psk31.
[22:48] <Randomskk> java is horrid
[22:48] <Laurenceb> silly SpeedEvil
[22:48] <Laurenceb> :P
[22:49] <Laurenceb> it is rather bad
[22:49] <terry> I'm being lazy and trying to avoid reimplementing it myself.\
[22:49] <jcoxon> terry, why java though?
[22:49] <terry> Randomskk: Java has a place.
[22:49] <terry> jcoxon: Android.
[22:49] Action: Laurenceb has been thinking for a name for the autopilot board - MATOC - Multipurpose Airborne Telemetery lOgging and Control
[22:50] <jcoxon> terry, oh cool
[22:50] <jcoxon> dl-fldigi anyone?
[22:51] <terry> jcoxon: what library dependencies are there?
[22:51] <fsphil> just merged your branch into mine, will compile it up now
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[22:51] <jcoxon> fsphil, i've got all your ssdv code in as well
[22:52] <fsphil> jcoxon, thanks. I'm working on a setup tab for it now
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> Autopilot Navigation Versatile Inexpensive Laurenceb.
[22:52] <jcoxon> terry, ummm curl, fltk, portaudio and libsamplerate off the top of my head
[22:52] <fsphil> I'm not fond of the name SSDV, will have to make up something better
[22:52] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, :-D
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[22:53] <jcoxon> fsphil, we should add it to the Op Mode menu
[22:54] <fsphil> hmm.. yea not bad idea, could also stop it decoding the data as text too
[22:54] <Laurenceb> lol
[22:55] <jcoxon> fsphil, also do you have the sample wav lying around?
[22:55] <fsphil> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/ssdv/
[22:55] <jcoxon> i put back the function to playback files
[22:55] <Laurenceb> apparently rjharrison is on bbc R4 tomorrow at 9am I think
[22:56] <Laurenceb> anvils dont fly very well... mattocks fly slightly better but also kill people when they land...
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> 9-10
[22:57] Action: SpeedEvil ponders appropriate names from history.
[22:57] <jcoxon> fsphil, what settings?
[22:57] <Laurenceb> bbl
[22:57] <fsphil> ah sorry jcoxon, 300 baud, no parity, 1.5 stop bits, 8-bit ascii
[22:57] <fsphil> 850 shift
[22:57] <fsphil> it's a fairly long file
[22:58] <jcoxon> and then open the rx window?
[22:58] <fsphil> yes
[22:59] <jcoxon> hehe it seems to be working
[22:59] <fsphil> it should start showing an image after about 3 received blocks
[23:08] <jcoxon> yay jpeg decoded
[23:09] <jcoxon> takes a while
[23:10] <fsphil> yea, hopefully the images during the flight will be smaller - less detail
[23:10] <fsphil> I don't dare try 600 baud :)
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[23:13] <jcoxon> i'll add a mode to the menu as well
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[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> well, good night people
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[23:25] <fsphil> I've to add some code to post the image to a server yet, and save a local copy. pretty simple stuff, most of the work left is on the TX side
[23:26] <fsphil> and getting the PCB made
[23:26] <jcoxon> okay i'll merge
[23:27] <jcoxon> pushed to github?
[23:27] juxta_ (~blah@ppp118-210-3-11.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[23:29] <fsphil> haven't done it yet, github has the latest. only difference is I've merged your latest changes
[23:30] <fsphil> oh the hab stuff is looking good
[23:31] <fsphil> windows doesn't resize?
[23:31] <fsphil> dl-fldigi window that is
[23:33] <fsphil> is the checksum code handy?
[23:33] <jcoxon> back
[23:33] <fsphil> re
[23:34] <jcoxon> yeah i'm having a few issues with the window resize
[23:34] <jcoxon> its not perfect yet
[23:35] <jcoxon> and being on a mac i'm not sure how it appears on linux
[23:35] <fsphil> not far from it, love the balloon data at the top
[23:35] <jcoxon> my favourite bit is the time since Rx
[23:35] <jcoxon> will be very useful for trans-a flights with say 10mins between transmissions
[23:36] <jcoxon> checksum code for tx?
[23:36] <fsphil> yep
[23:36] <jcoxon> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dlistener
[23:36] <fsphil> I'm gonna push to get the avr code finished this weekend
[23:36] <fsphil> thanks
[23:37] <fsphil> lovely and simple
[23:37] <jcoxon> fsphil, anything you think we should add to the hab gui?
[23:38] <jcoxon> fsphil, there is also a more advanced checksum
[23:38] <jcoxon> need to ask Randomskk about that
[23:38] <fsphil> gui wise, possibly the rig control
[23:39] <jcoxon> yeah, i was wondering though to promote the use of flrig instead
[23:40] <fsphil> ah didn't know about that
[23:40] <jcoxon> by the same guys
[23:41] <jcoxon> i'll see what i can do about intergration
[23:41] <fsphil> it's purely for selfish reasons, the ft817nd's screen is very tiny :)
[23:42] <jcoxon> hehe, the code is all there
[23:42] <jcoxon> just need to add the relevent bits to the --hab section
[23:43] <jcoxon> going to add a bearing and a declination boxes
[23:43] <jcoxon> once i finish the telem decoder
[23:44] <jcoxon> to help with yagi pointing
[23:44] <fsphil> a range would be interesting too
[23:44] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:44] <fsphil> though not particularly useful
[23:45] <jcoxon> pah its key for bragging
[23:45] <fsphil> yep lol
[23:45] <jcoxon> going to introduce a points system
[23:45] <jcoxon> points = number of strings decoder * their range
[23:46] <fsphil> aah cute.
[23:46] <jcoxon> best for HF flights
[23:47] <fsphil> though someone could 'tweak' their position to be a little further away
[23:48] <jcoxon> it'll rely on a bit of good faith
[23:48] <sbasuita> jcoxon, have you thought about some sort of authentication for uploaders?
[23:48] <fsphil> yep.. which I suppose we already do
[23:49] <jcoxon> sbasuita, its been mentioned but i really don't think we need it
[23:49] <jcoxon> its pretty niche
[23:49] <jcoxon> and the server doesn't accept any rubbish
[23:50] <sbasuita> hmm... you're probably right, but security issues always seem to unnerve me
[23:51] <jcoxon> sbasuita, what would be your security solution?
[23:53] <sbasuita> jcoxon, i think it would be best to minimise barrier to entry for uploaders, so i would implement a whitelist 'switch' on the server. When it is enabled, it would only allow uploads from certain ips which i guess we could share on irc in the case of an attacker trying to mess up a mission.
[23:53] <jcoxon> i see
[23:53] <juxta_> morning all
[23:54] <jcoxon> so keep it open but if we run into something dodgey then only accept a preset list
[23:54] <sbasuita> yep
[23:54] <juxta_> I've also worried about that too sbasuita :)
[23:54] <jcoxon> something to chat with rjharrison about
[23:54] <sbasuita> i think its best to have an 'emergency plan' worked out beforehand, than trying to quickly write firewall rules when a balloon is in the air
[23:55] <jcoxon> sbasuita, i think that seems sensible and easy to implment
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[23:58] <fsphil> innocent until proven iffy
[00:00] --- Sat Apr 3 2010