highaltitude.log.20100325

[00:00] <Lunar_Lander> no, that is only a problem in the Pacific :P
[00:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:00] <Lunar_Lander> the best thing I found so far was from Goa, India
[00:00] <jonsowman> ah right, that bug needs sorting
[00:00] <Randomskk> jonsowman: I dunno if it's fixed in the sexy new code
[00:00] <Lunar_Lander> if you go really high, to 30000 m, you cover 1850 km in 24 hours, due west
[00:00] <jonsowman> ProjectCirrus: when are you planning to launch?
[00:00] <Randomskk> /predict is still old code as I understand it
[00:00] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yeh pretty sure it is
[00:00] <jonsowman> wonder if rich has fixed it
[00:01] <jonsowman> is there a live version of his code?
[00:01] <Lunar_Lander> but the thing is: The country in which you make landfall is Yemen
[00:01] <ProjectCirrus> well the site is under construction.... we're currently trying to get a payload sorted while trying to finish our uni work for easter but its http://projectcirrus.wordpress.com/
[00:01] <Randomskk> it's on github, you can compile and run the executable, but it's not online
[00:01] <Randomskk> but the executable segfaults if I make it output kml
[00:01] <jonsowman> Randomskk: ok ta
[00:01] <jonsowman> oh
[00:01] <Randomskk> works for csv but I can't plot csv
[00:01] <Randomskk> so I don't know if it works or what
[00:01] <jonsowman> ProjectCirrus: bookmarked :) look forward to it
[00:01] <ProjectCirrus> nothing of any value on it really yet
[00:01] <ProjectCirrus> just a framework
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> but I don't think that a flight India-Eritrea is a "Indian Ocean Crossing"
[00:02] <jonsowman> ProjectCirrus: yeh fair enough
[00:02] <ProjectCirrus> we are working on getting a decent payload before worrying about a decent website!
[00:02] <ProjectCirrus> time is tight
[00:03] <ProjectCirrus> and our uni course is frantic atm
[00:03] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman you may also want to check www.stratosphere.weebly.com :)
[00:03] <jonsowman> ProjectCirrus: that's fair enough - hows construction going?
[00:03] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: thanks
[00:04] <jonsowman> looks good
[00:04] <ProjectCirrus> well, its pretty much all together.... but we can't test until we have a radio which does ssb
[00:04] <ProjectCirrus> we started off wanting to do morse which our radio could do
[00:04] <ProjectCirrus> but were convinced into the beauty of ssb
[00:05] <Randomskk> well in particular rtty
[00:05] <Randomskk> but yea
[00:05] <Randomskk> bug ed some
[00:05] <jonsowman> ProjectCirrus: the whole tx on FM, rx on AM-SSB is very neat
[00:05] <Randomskk> in fact email the cusf list
[00:05] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome jonsowman :)
[00:05] <ProjectCirrus> ok will do
[00:05] <Randomskk> "hi guys we really need that radio could someone post it please" or such
[00:05] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: always interesting to see new projects
[00:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:05] <Lunar_Lander> hey somebody voted!
[00:05] <Lunar_Lander> I have that poll
[00:05] <jonsowman> ProjectCirrus: yep email the CUSF list, i'll give ed a ring if you don't get a reply
[00:05] <Lunar_Lander> "Will Project Stratósfaira succeed in launching a small balloon into the Stratosphere in 2010?"
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> quite early somebody voted for "Yes"
[00:06] <ProjectCirrus> sweet, we don't want to be annoying but we're screwed without it!
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> now there is also a vote for "Not Sure"
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> so that is 50/50 now
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[00:06] <jonsowman> ProjectCirrus: sure, I think ed knows that too but he is very busy
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> and No!
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> I did not make the "yes" vote
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[00:06] <ProjectCirrus> i do understand
[00:06] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: haha
[00:07] <jonsowman> trying to think of simple ways of testing the FM transmitter without an AMSSB set
[00:07] <Randomskk> not really anything you can do usefully
[00:07] <jonsowman> Randomskk: hmm yeh
[00:07] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2evRMRneew
[00:08] <Randomskk> connect it to an antenna resonant at a harmonic in the broadcast AM range
[00:08] <Lunar_Lander> this is me talking about the project in that link
[00:08] <ProjectCirrus> thanks for advice, have to get work done for tomorrow so will minimise this... i.e possible no response for a while!
[00:10] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: having a listen now
[00:10] <jonsowman> ProjectCirrus: okay
[00:13] <jonsowman> anyone remember which company rob harrison used for the Icarus III psb?
[00:13] <jonsowman> *pcb even
[00:20] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman how was it?
[00:21] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: very good, well presented
[00:21] <jonsowman> looking forward to seeing more of this
[00:22] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[00:23] <Lunar_Lander> I showed that to a friend
[00:23] <Lunar_Lander> she was shocked when that giant "Thank You" suddenly appeared :P
[00:23] <jonsowman> haha
[00:24] <Lunar_Lander> but she liked the outro :)
[00:27] <fergusnoble> ProjectCirrus: hey, discussed the radio loan with Ed a couple of weeks back, we all agreed to it but we got a bit caught up moving our lab to a new room
[00:27] <jonsowman> fergusnoble: oh yes, how did the lab move go?
[00:27] <fergusnoble> Im not in Camb atm but Iain, Dan and Ed are
[00:27] <fergusnoble> jonsowman: yeah looking good
[00:27] <fergusnoble> its a bigger nicer room
[00:28] <fergusnoble> not so smelly
[00:28] <jonsowman> fergusnoble: good stuff. hows things by the way - havent seen you all term?
[00:28] <fergusnoble> but unfortunately its only for a few months again
[00:28] <fergusnoble> not bad, had lots of work so havn't made it to many meetings
[00:28] <fergusnoble> progress on the GPS and started badger2.1
[00:29] <fergusnoble> how about you?
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[00:29] <fergusnoble> damn net split
[00:30] <jonsowman> fergusnoble: ah thats good, would be good to catch up on whats happening with the electronics
[00:30] <jonsowman> but yeh things are all fine, lots of work to do over easter
[00:30] <fergusnoble> yeah I could do with a hand with it
[00:30] <fergusnoble> tell me about it!
[00:31] <fergusnoble> adam was saying you guys had some ideas for a badger2 style flight computer
[00:31] <fergusnoble> was thinking why not merge the two?
[00:31] <jonsowman> wonder if he meant badgercub?
[00:31] <fergusnoble> oh perhaps
[00:32] <fergusnoble> what did you have in mind?
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[00:32] <jonsowman> Randomskk: ping
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[00:32] <Randomskk> hi
[00:33] <fergusnoble> we need to get some more bcubs soon, could be a good chance to try something new
[00:33] <jonsowman> ideas for our flight computer
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[00:33] <Randomskk> did I miss something on the netsplit?
[00:33] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yes
[00:33] <Randomskk> jeez, fourty seconds of netsplit :P
[00:33] <jonsowman> just talking about our flight computer ideas
[00:33] <Randomskk> we didn't find any other interesting radio ICs did we?
[00:33] <fergusnoble> earthshine: if your there, got your email, what kind of flight computer are you using - most microcontrollers have an SPI or I2C peripheral you can use to interface to the SCP1000
[00:33] <jonsowman> no althought i havent looked
[00:34] <jonsowman> i cannot type.
[00:34] <fergusnoble> Randomskk: keep looking but I did look quite extensivly and couldnt really find anything more promising
[00:34] <Randomskk> fergusnoble's idea of uplinking at 50baud but reading it at the perhaps-supported rate of like 600baud on the TI chip and just treating 12 bits together as a single bit
[00:34] <Randomskk> might be nicer than rssi
[00:35] <jonsowman> anything's nicer than rssi
[00:35] <Randomskk> besides that it does seem to basically work well and has the microcontroller builtin etc
[00:35] <jonsowman> the CC1111 does seem to do the job perfectly
[00:35] <fergusnoble> Randomskk: although I was swayed by the onboard micro, if you werent bothered about that there may be other possibilities
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[00:35] <jonsowman> are there any standalone radio ICs on 70cms
[00:35] <jonsowman> i wonder
[00:35] <fergusnoble> yeah
[00:36] <fergusnoble> I cant remember everything I found
[00:36] <Randomskk> well I mean TI do some
[00:36] <Randomskk> they do the CCs without the micro
[00:36] <fergusnoble> yeah the CC1100
[00:36] <fergusnoble> iirc
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[00:36] <fergusnoble> SPI iface
[00:36] <jonsowman> ah right
[00:36] <jonsowman> you two have the same nickcolour, confusingf
[00:36] <Randomskk> as do you two actually
[00:36] Nick change: fergusnoble -> fnoble-different
[00:36] <fnoble-different> changed?
[00:37] <jonsowman> no :(
[00:37] Nick change: fnoble-different -> fergusnoble
[00:37] <jonsowman> irssi knows its still you I think
[00:37] <Randomskk> ST's only radios are 2.4ghz
[00:37] <fergusnoble> yeah
[00:37] <Randomskk> though with an STM32 core onboard which is tasty
[00:37] <fergusnoble> there was one surface mount module with similar functionality to the radiometrix
[00:38] <fergusnoble> there are also the rfpics
[00:38] <Randomskk> yea
[00:38] <Randomskk> looking at them now
[00:38] <jonsowman> fergusnoble: did you say you've been working on the GPS?
[00:38] <fergusnoble> but they blow harder than the CCs
[00:38] <Randomskk> much as I otherwise dislike pics
[00:38] <Randomskk> they do have one in 434
[00:38] <Randomskk> 10dBm, FSK/ASK
[00:38] <fergusnoble> i seem to remember something putting me off
[00:38] <fergusnoble> might be that they dont come with flash
[00:38] <fergusnoble> only EPROM or something annoying maybe?
[00:39] <Randomskk> 6 IO pins lol
[00:39] <fergusnoble> jonsowman: yeah, the software is running great on the blackfin
[00:39] <fergusnoble> working on porting it to the gumstix DSP
[00:39] <Randomskk> hmm this one has flash
[00:39] <jonsowman> ah right nice one
[00:40] <fergusnoble> if it works out we should basically have it running entirely on the dsp and the main cpu will be free to do our evil bidding
[00:40] <Randomskk> no i2c or spi but does have adc and timers etc
[00:40] <fergusnoble> oh, cool
[00:40] <Randomskk> hmm does it even have uart
[00:40] <Randomskk> no
[00:40] <fergusnoble> most of these things can be bit banged
[00:40] <Randomskk> yea
[00:41] <Randomskk> only 6 I/O pins though
[00:41] <fergusnoble> but the CC does have them built in
[00:41] <fergusnoble> the disadvantage is the programmer is a little harder to get hold of
[00:41] <fergusnoble> although there is an open source design
[00:41] <fergusnoble> and we could always make a USB bootloader
[00:41] <jonsowman> right then - I'm off for now
[00:41] <fergusnoble> ok, bye
[00:42] <jonsowman> night all
[00:42] <Randomskk> seeya
[00:42] <jonsowman> fergusnoble & Randomskk: catch you later
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[00:43] <Randomskk> hmm
[00:44] <Randomskk> microchip also have a 434 radio w/o µC
[00:44] <Randomskk> SPI interface
[00:44] <Randomskk> fsk
[00:45] <fergusnoble> check minimum shifts and baud rates
[00:45] <Randomskk> yea
[00:45] <fergusnoble> could be good
[00:46] <Randomskk> nah
[00:47] <Randomskk> min dev is 15khz
[00:50] <Randomskk> 0.6kbps lowest data rate
[00:50] <fergusnoble> :(
[00:50] <Randomskk> annoying
[00:51] <Randomskk> we considered doing the radio from discretes but it's really not worth it
[00:51] <Randomskk> look at how big the ntx2 is
[00:51] <fergusnoble> yeah
[00:51] <Randomskk> and that's packed full of parts
[00:51] <fergusnoble> DDS could be fun though
[00:51] <Randomskk> hard at 434mhz though
[00:51] <fergusnoble> but it will still be large
[00:51] <fergusnoble> yeah
[00:52] <Randomskk> somewhat easier for hf though even then
[00:52] <ProjectCirrus> btw, just got your message fergusnoble... thanks for the info
[00:52] <fergusnoble> either need to do some super-nyquist stuff or mix it up
[00:52] <fergusnoble> ProjectCirrus: np
[00:52] <Randomskk> yea
[00:52] <Randomskk> and once you've mixed and then filtered out 434 you may as well have used a crystal anyway
[00:52] <fergusnoble> ProjectCirrus: got the email, hopefully someone in cambridge will follow it up
[00:53] <ProjectCirrus> thanks
[00:53] <fergusnoble> if not bug us about it and ill ring Iain
[00:53] <ProjectCirrus> much appreciated
[00:53] <fergusnoble> least we can do
[00:53] <fergusnoble> good to hear your progressing well
[00:53] <ProjectCirrus> yeah, the IAA seem pretty new to the concept
[00:54] <fergusnoble> where are you launching from again?
[00:54] <ProjectCirrus> but seem generally supportive
[00:54] <fergusnoble> thats cool
[00:54] <Randomskk> plus 434 is pretty much the perfect frequency, any higher and losses get silly and most ham radios can't receive, any lower and antennas get unwieldy
[00:54] <ProjectCirrus> there are 5 flight locations being approved
[00:54] <fergusnoble> could potentially have been a major pain
[00:55] <fergusnoble> Randomskk: agreed, i think the CC isnt a bad option though
[00:55] <Randomskk> yea
[00:55] <Randomskk> certainly I can't find anything better either :P
[00:55] <ProjectCirrus> 3 in northern ireland two down south, we need that because NI is so small and we have a small flight window
[00:55] <fergusnoble> the tx carrier shiting bodge is almost exactly what we do on the radiometrix anyway
[00:55] <Randomskk> what we want is an IC for doing RTTY
[00:55] <fergusnoble> and the rx method is a bit bodgy but seems effective
[00:55] <Randomskk> I'll whip up some photomasks and I'm sure CUSF can spring for a wafer or two :P
[00:56] <fergusnoble> :)
[00:56] <fergusnoble> not sure wafers are even that expensive
[00:56] <fergusnoble> just the equipment
[00:56] <Randomskk> tooling is though
[00:56] <Randomskk> yea
[00:56] <Randomskk> also I haven't had any lectures on VLSI or otherwise microchip design yet :P
[00:57] <natrium42> just use an actel fpga
[00:57] <natrium42> :P
[00:57] <fergusnoble> how hard can it be :D
[00:57] <Randomskk> I hear at southamption the third year design project for EEngs has them design a microchip that gets produced
[00:57] <fergusnoble> natrium42: for analog RF?
[00:57] <fergusnoble> Randomskk: wow cool
[00:57] <natrium42> oh, you want analog...
[00:57] <Randomskk> but they put about thirty student group's microchips onto one die and have that die cover the wafer instead of a die each
[00:58] <Randomskk> so the IC they get back has like five pins for them
[00:58] <Randomskk> and the rest are other student groups
[00:58] <Randomskk> even so it looked like a lot of fun
[00:58] <Randomskk> they put their names in big in some unused space
[00:58] <Randomskk> you could just about make them out on the ic
[00:58] <fergusnoble> yeah, would be fun
[00:58] <Randomskk> eng dept does have license for IC design software
[00:58] <Randomskk> available in EIETL I think
[00:58] <fergusnoble> i guess we deal with things on a level higher and a level lower than silicon
[00:59] <fergusnoble> but never really get much chance to fill the gap
[00:59] <Randomskk> seems so
[00:59] <Randomskk> unfortunately
[00:59] <Randomskk> I suspect if you wanted there's probably an elective in third or fourth year
[00:59] <fergusnoble> i think there is even free layout software
[00:59] <fergusnoble> probably
[00:59] <Randomskk> as far as I'm aware as an undergrad there's no opportunity to get an IC fabbed though
[00:59] <fergusnoble> there are enough books on VLSI etc in the eng lib
[00:59] <Randomskk> despite CAPE having several suitable cleanrooms
[01:00] Nick change: ProjectCirrus -> ProjectCirrus[wo
[01:00] <fergusnoble> john is doing his postgrad at cape
[01:00] <fergusnoble> and he gets to make mico- and nano- thingys
[01:00] <fergusnoble> not sure about ics
[01:00] Nick change: ProjectCirrus[wo -> P-Cirrus[working
[01:00] <Randomskk> there's a lot of MEMs stuff as I understand it
[01:00] <fergusnoble> he said its not as scary as you might think, but the setup does sound expensive
[01:01] <fergusnoble> Randomskk: do you think there is a problem with the tx on the CC?
[01:02] <fergusnoble> if its just the rx then i think we might be able to make some improvements
[01:02] <fergusnoble> OOK does suck
[01:02] <Randomskk> not really, I guess, it works well enough to be reliably received so
[01:02] <Randomskk> it's more a case of seeing if anything 'nicer' is available
[01:02] <Randomskk> but apparently not
[01:02] <fergusnoble> yeah
[01:02] <Randomskk> everything is designed for things like car keys
[01:02] <fergusnoble> well best to keep browsing
[01:03] <Randomskk> high data rate, low range, high shift
[01:03] <fergusnoble> well thats the right kind of thing really
[01:03] <fergusnoble> yeah, there is that
[01:03] <Randomskk> yea but imagine your car unlocked at 50 baud
[01:03] <Randomskk> be a pita
[01:03] <fergusnoble> but most of that stuff is 10mW
[01:03] <fergusnoble> yup
[01:03] <Randomskk> yea, and in the right freq too
[01:03] <Randomskk> just annoying shifts and bauds
[01:03] <fergusnoble> brb
[01:04] <Randomskk> I'd better get to sleep, gotta up be early
[01:04] <Randomskk> seeya around
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[02:33] <ProjectCirrus> night all
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[06:47] <rjharrison> Just heard about the icarus project on Radio 4
[06:48] <rjharrison> I think it will be in the times
[06:48] <rjharrison> given they were reading out stories from the daily papers
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[08:05] <earthshine> morning
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[08:35] <rjharrison_work> boo
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[08:46] <rjharrison_work> hi edmoore
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[08:47] <rjharrison_work> bHi edmoore
[08:47] <rjharrison_work> bit embarrasing this morning
[08:47] <rjharrison_work> Not sure on the NASA angle !
[08:47] <rjharrison_work> The Metro did a nice spread
[08:48] <edmoore> lol, just read the times article
[08:48] <edmoore> nice
[08:48] <rjharrison_work> Got booted to page 16 but never mind
[08:48] <rjharrison_work> The Metro did me a double page sparead
[08:48] <rjharrison_work> spread with loads of good pics
[08:49] <russss> nice
[08:51] <rjharrison_work> http://www.metro.co.uk/news/818988-amateur-photographers-amazing-space-shots-using-a-balloon
[08:51] <rjharrison_work> This is a nicer article :)
[08:52] <rjharrison_work> In terms of pics
[08:53] <rjharrison_work> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7074839.ece
[08:53] <rjharrison_work> russss, john leach phone me yesterday re The Times trying to get in contact
[08:55] <russss> hmm?
[08:57] <edmoore> brekky
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[08:58] <GW8RAK> rjh - also heard about you on Radio 4's today
[09:02] <SpeedEvil> he's the new carol vaudeman.
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[09:06] Action: rjharrison_work ducks
[09:07] <rjharrison_work> humm that didn't work
[09:07] <Randomskk> ooh, nice going
[09:08] <Randomskk> you must be building up quite a scrapbook :P
[09:08] <Randomskk> "oh and here's where I appeared in The Times"
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[09:23] <rjharrison_work> Randomskk, hehe
[09:25] <rjharrison_work> Apparently It was on Chris Evans
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[09:34] <rjharrison_work> edmoore, The BBC have just called and they want to come and do some video and put me on Look North tonight.
[09:34] <rjharrison_work> Live aaahhh!
[09:35] <edmoore> live is easy!
[09:35] <rjharrison_work> Might be worth thinking about the message to get accross
[09:35] <edmoore> it's the local radio stations that get to you
[09:35] <edmoore> the sam e interview x36 times
[09:35] <rjharrison_work> I'm thinking kids and science
[09:35] <rjharrison_work> + saftey
[09:36] <rjharrison_work> I'm thinking about plugging for some funding to take this into schools
[09:36] <rjharrison_work> Some bugger might cough up a few K
[09:39] <edmoore> have a word with Garry Bulmer
[09:39] <edmoore> he's leeds-based, and has been playing with arduinos and balloons in schools
[09:40] <edmoore> razor sharp chap too, I think he came up with Erlang D-Trace
[09:40] <edmoore> or dtrace, or however it's written
[09:45] <rjharrison_work> aaah BskyB just emailed
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> :)
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> slow news day I guess. Nothing can have happened yesterday they need to discuss.
[09:48] <edmoore> they like these stories! They sent a film crew over for sky news for teddies. about a ten minute piece. I think they don't suffer from the same staffing scrutiny as the BC
[09:48] <edmoore> BBC*
[09:49] <SpeedEvil> yeah. And everygthing is covering the budget anyway.
[09:55] <edmoore> well anyhoo, good luck today rjharrison_work , and remember that you can say no to BBC local radio, as for any geographical event, there seem to be about 6 BBC local radio stations that make a claim to have a justification to interview you about it.
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[10:00] <SpeedEvil> congragts anyway :)
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[10:10] <russss> rjharrison_work: I got a metro with your article in it, do you want a photo?
[10:11] <rjharrison_work> it ok I have a few copies now from the staff
[10:11] <russss> cool
[10:11] <rjharrison_work> bskyb are comming over to do an interview and BBC evening news
[10:11] <rjharrison_work> Scary
[10:12] <rjharrison_work> SOme one get a plan together about how to wrap this up nicely for HAB
[10:13] <rjharrison_work> exit
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[10:46] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/tH3Fz.png
[10:47] <Laurenceb> ^ analogue is all routed :D
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> shiny
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> is that a tqfp proc?
[10:49] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:49] <Laurenceb> no actually
[10:49] <Laurenceb> like tqfp but tighter pins
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> oh
[10:52] <Laurenceb> lqfp
[10:52] <Laurenceb> - http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/stm8s105c6t6/mcu-8bit-stm8s-32k-flash-48lqfp/dp/1706222?in_merch=true&MER=i-9b10-00001460
[10:52] <Laurenceb> err http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/stm32f103cbt6/mcu-32bit-arm-cortex-m3-48lqfp/dp/1606327?crosssellid=1606327&crosssell=true&in_merch=true&
[10:52] <Laurenceb> dont want 8 bit :P
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[10:54] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[11:21] <earthshine> Lauance what GPS module wil be using with that board ?
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[11:58] <jonsowman> ping rjharrison
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[13:19] <Randomskk> rjharrison: saw you in the times
[13:19] <Randomskk> nice work
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[13:49] <DanielRichman> rjharrison: congratulations
[13:49] <DanielRichman> rjharrison: there's an article about you in the Reading Metro here too
[13:49] <DanielRichman> though we saw the times stuff on their website
[13:50] <DanielRichman> s/Reading Metro/The Metro/
[13:50] Action: Randomskk had a look as he walked past in smiths
[13:50] <DanielRichman> rjharrison: has your site gone down!?
[13:51] <Randomskk> lol after all that talk about ddos last night
[13:51] <Randomskk> apparently appearing in national press is a pretty good way to do that
[13:51] <KingJ> I thought the name looked familiar on that metro article, congratulations
[13:51] <Randomskk> looks like mysql died
[13:51] <Randomskk> This site is temporarily unavailable.
[13:51] <Randomskk> Please notify the System Administrator
[13:51] <Randomskk> Could not connect to the database server
[13:53] <DanielRichman> probably just only serving some requests; rather than totally dead
[13:53] <DanielRichman> I got a title on my page
[13:53] <DanielRichman> but then gave up before content.
[13:53] <Randomskk> in the process of dying then
[13:53] <Randomskk> caching cachine caching!
[13:54] <Randomskk> there's really no need at all for page views of static content on a cms to hit the database
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[13:56] <DanielRichman_> It's coming back up, it would seem
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[13:56] Nick change: DanielRichman_ -> DanielRichman
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[14:11] <Randomskk> daily mail too
[14:11] <Randomskk> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1260323/British-aerospace-enthusiast-takes-NASA-style-photographs-using-helium-balloon-pocket-camera.html
[14:12] <russss> holy crap
[14:12] <russss> does rjharrison have a PR agency?
[14:15] <Randomskk> nice diagram there too
[14:15] <Randomskk> and check out rjharrison yielding his yagi :P
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[14:38] <earthshine> That diagram says the computer controls the camera - taht cant be right - it looks like an A560 to me
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[14:39] <Randomskk> well technically I mean the flight computer can be rigged to a chdk camera
[14:39] <Randomskk> but I think probably give the diagram the benefit of doubt, it is daily mail
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[15:26] <jonsowman> yo Matt_soton_
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[15:41] <earthshine> Does anyone know why the thread on Pressure Sensors has dissapred from the mailing list ?
[15:44] <earthshine> Hmm.. for somereaon the thread has been merged with "Rob's high altitude video on sky news"
[15:45] <earthshine> Not sure how they are related really
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[16:33] <jonsowman> fergusnoble: hiya
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[16:45] <astevens> hello everyone, so happy to find a channel like this :)
[16:45] <russss> welcome
[16:46] <jonsowman> astevens: hello
[16:50] <earthshine> hi astevens
[16:53] <fergusnoble> jonsowman: hi
[16:56] <earthshine> fergusnoble: I take it you are 'Nick' in the email?
[16:57] <fergusnoble> no, im Fergus in the emails :)
[16:58] <earthshine> OK I take it you mean the email list. I got an actual email from someone called Nick.
[16:58] <earthshine> So that SPC1000 will work down to a near vacuum?
[16:58] <fergusnoble> oh right, no that wasnt me
[16:58] <fergusnoble> yeah, experience seems to say it works just fine
[16:58] <earthshine> Cool
[16:59] <earthshine> I've actually already ordered one of these - Una de les altres variables més importants i conegudes és la pressió atmosfèrica. La pressió
[16:59] <earthshine> atmosfèrica presenta una variació també prou curiosa, ja que és de decreixement
[16:59] <earthshine> exponencial, no és lineal com un es podria pensar. Aquesta variació exponencial és deguda a
[16:59] <earthshine> la formació natural de l'atmosfera.
[16:59] <earthshine> En el nostre cas el sensor utilitzat també va ser de tipus digital i fabricat per l'empresa VTI
[16:59] <earthshine> Technologies i el model és l'SCP1000. Cal dir que va comportar alguns conflictes amb la
[16:59] <earthshine> targeta SD ja que utilitzaven el mateix bus (SPI). Tot i que s'utilitzaven selectors per utilitzar
[16:59] <earthshine> el bus mai van minvar els problemes cosa que va fer que durant el vol es desactivés la
[16:59] <earthshine> targeta per evitar problemes que ja havíem tingut durant les fases de prova. Tot seguit es mostra una taula
[16:59] <earthshine> amb el resum de característiques.
[16:59] <earthshine> shit
[16:59] <earthshine> PASTE FAIL !!
[16:59] <earthshine> I've already ordered one of these .........
[16:59] <fergusnoble> I have some data collected somewhere if you want to have a look
[16:59] <earthshine> let's start again......
[16:59] <earthshine> http://onecall.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1786572
[17:00] <fergusnoble> hehe, oops
[17:00] <earthshine> Which goes from 0-15psi
[17:00] <earthshine> But I kmight also order an SPC1000 and give them both a try and see what's best
[17:00] <fergusnoble> cool, that looks good
[17:00] <fergusnoble> yup
[17:01] <fergusnoble> ooi, what are you using for a flight computer, i might be better able to answer about wiring up the SCP
[17:01] <earthshine> AN Atmega328 chip for now
[17:02] <earthshine> I'll probably be developing an ARM based board in the future but for this flight an Atmega328
[17:02] <fergusnoble> ok then I guess you know what you are doing anyway :)
[17:02] <fergusnoble> oh it was nick who was asking about wiring
[17:03] <earthshine> I like the fact the SPC1000 has an SPI interface
[17:03] <fergusnoble> yeah, I2C can be a pain
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[17:05] <fergusnoble> those gps modules look nice btw
[17:05] <earthshine> Yeah they are cool - got one wired up right now
[17:05] <fergusnoble> awesome
[17:06] <fergusnoble> do you know if they do something similar w/o an onboard antenna?
[17:06] <earthshine> you can get the chip on it's own if your happy doing SMD soldering
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[17:07] <fergusnoble> yeah thats no problem, i wonder if they have a good reference design
[17:07] <earthshine> or just remove the helical and solder up your own ant
[17:07] <fergusnoble> its the RF front end stuff that leaves me at a bit of a loss
[17:08] <fergusnoble> the first design for the software GPS lost quite a few dB from the reference design even though I though we had laid it out ok
[17:10] <earthshine> Software GPS ?
[17:12] <fergusnoble> yeah - working on a SE4120 based software GPS with Henry (hallam)
[17:12] <fergusnoble> to determine the apogee altitude of the rocket
[17:13] <fergusnoble> (ots GPS receivers wouldnt work due to COCOM limits)
[17:14] <fergusnoble> got it mostly implemented on a blackfin DSP although im porting it over to the gumstix atm
[17:15] <earthshine> neat
[17:15] <earthshine> Why go to all that effort though when their are ready made solutions around ?
[17:16] <Randomskk> the ready made ones don't work, basically
[17:16] <Randomskk> can't maintain lock under that kind of acceleration typically
[17:16] <fergusnoble> commercial GPS receivers are subject to COCOM limits (28km altitude and so many meters/s velocity)
[17:16] <Randomskk> also cocom limits
[17:16] <Randomskk> since this thing is literally a guided rocket
[17:16] <fergusnoble> we exceed both within a fraction of a second :)
[17:16] <Randomskk> exactly the kind of thing COCOM is meant to stop
[17:17] <fergusnoble> and also like Randomskk says we can tune our loop filter bandwidth to the dynamics we are expecting
[17:18] <fergusnoble> most chipset manufaturers dont exepct close to 100G :)
[17:18] <earthshine> Ahh of course - rockets
[17:18] <earthshine> So you have to make your own to circumvent the COCOM limits
[17:18] <fergusnoble> yeah for HAB there isnt really any point
[17:18] <earthshine> thats cool
[17:19] <fergusnoble> it was also fun to learn about how gps works
[17:19] <earthshine> i bet
[17:20] <fergusnoble> there are actually a couple of books around which basically tell you exactly how to do it too which helps
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[17:20] <fergusnoble> even have MATLAB code examples
[17:20] <Randomskk> I wonder if you could implement it on an fpga or such
[17:22] <fergusnoble> deffo
[17:22] <Randomskk> be a fun project
[17:22] <fergusnoble> yeah, would be
[17:23] <fergusnoble> I know henry is looking into doing something along those lines
[17:24] <fergusnoble> although doing it on a DSP doesnt seem too bad to me
[17:24] <fergusnoble> its not like its crazy crazy intensive
[17:24] <fergusnoble> and not sure quite how well it would parallelise into hardware
[17:25] <fergusnoble> actually the tracking loops would probably go into hardware quite nicely
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[17:49] <fergusnoble> hey edmoore
[17:49] <edmoore> ello
[17:49] <edmoore> just going to pop into shower b4 dinner, bad timing sorry
[17:49] <edmoore> but is all well?
[17:50] Nick change: edmoore -> edmoore|away
[17:50] <fergusnoble> yup everythings good
[17:50] <fergusnoble> cya later
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[18:01] <jonsowman> rjharrison: just seen Icarus on BBC 6oclock news
[18:01] <jonsowman> nice work
[18:05] <ProjectCirrus> i agree, and they managed not to make it too cheesy
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[18:11] <RocketBoy> rjharrison: so what should I be looking out for in the way of media coverage
[18:12] <Randomskk> BBC news at six, Times pg16, daily mail, his local ITV news and weather
[18:12] <Randomskk> uh, what else
[18:12] <Randomskk> the metro
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[18:15] <RocketBoy> just watching the bbc news now
[18:15] <jonsowman> impressive
[18:15] <jonsowman> RocketBoy: me too
[18:15] <Randomskk> it is rather
[18:19] <DanielRichman> daily mail?
[18:19] <DanielRichman> Also: Have been trying to straighten out a 3m piece of tinned copper wire
[18:20] <DanielRichman> Was told to try and stretch it
[18:20] <DanielRichman> Am I going to need tools etc? I tied it to a weight (and even had someone stand on the weight) at the bottom of some stairs, then tried to pull it upwards etc. to not much effect
[18:20] <DanielRichman> Should I be using some sort of tool?
[18:21] <DanielRichman> also It feels like I'm going to need eye protection incase it snaps
[18:21] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: yeh straightening wire is irritating
[18:21] <jonsowman> what's it for
[18:21] <DanielRichman> slim jim
[18:21] <ProjectCirrus> heat?
[18:22] <DanielRichman> heating a 3m length of wire doesn't sound fun
[18:22] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: is it anywhere near straight at the moment?
[18:22] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, well its *quite* straight
[18:22] <jonsowman> but it curls up when you let it go?
[18:22] <DanielRichman> mmm
[18:22] <Randomskk> thinner wire :P
[18:22] <Randomskk> once sticky tape will hold it in tension you're set
[18:23] <jonsowman> mine did that - just used electrical tape to hold it straight against the inner PVC pipe
[18:23] <Randomskk> yea
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[18:23] <jonsowman> dont try and get it to lie straight of its own accord, it'll take forever and not worth it
[18:23] <Randomskk> skin depth at 2m is thin enough that fairly thin wire is as good as thick wire
[18:23] <Randomskk> any thicker is a waste
[18:23] <Randomskk> you don't get better power handling
[18:23] <DanielRichman> 16SWG
[18:23] <Randomskk> all the current flows in the skin
[18:23] <Randomskk> that's a waste
[18:23] <DanielRichman> I've got a picture of it somewhere
[18:24] <Randomskk> 20swg would be fine, 22swg probably
[18:24] <RocketBoy> ooo its on
[18:24] <jonsowman> watch BBC1 guys
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[18:26] Nick change: Matt_soton_ -> Matt_soton
[18:26] Action: DanielRichman is watching http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/playlive/bbc_one_london/
[18:27] <russss> just caught the end of it
[18:27] <DanielRichman> same
[18:27] <ProjectCirrus> iplayer
[18:27] <DanielRichman> have to wait for the programme to finish I think
[18:27] <ProjectCirrus> yeah
[18:27] <ProjectCirrus> just means you get longer to simmer in excitement
[18:27] <RocketBoy> very smart rob
[18:28] <Randomskk> nice
[18:30] Nick change: ProjectCirrus -> cirrus-eating
[18:30] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, http://picasaweb.google.com/danieljonathanrichman/201003#
[18:30] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: looks good
[18:31] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, you reckon that the wire is straight enough there?
[18:31] <jonsowman> hmm mine was straighter, but i cant say whether it really matters that much
[18:32] <jonsowman> otoh i realise its pretty difficult to do
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[18:33] <fsphil> hi guys, nice work rjharrison :)
[18:34] <jonsowman> fsphil: hello
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[18:41] Nick change: RocketBoy -> RocketBoy|Away
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[18:48] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, use a machine head to straighten your wire
[18:49] <DanielRichman> ?
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> look up wire straightener on ebay
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> or google
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> general idea is to bend it in each direction past yield point, then back the other way to streaight
[19:20] <DanielRichman> hmm
[19:20] <DanielRichman> I doubt that the school tech depo. has one, but i'll ask
[19:22] <DanielRichman> Oshi!
[19:22] <DanielRichman> slashdotted
[19:22] <DanielRichman> http://slashdot.org/
[19:22] <Randomskk> lol
[19:22] <Randomskk> http://www.robertharrison.org/icarus/wordpress/?page_id=2
[19:22] <Randomskk> gl with that
[19:22] <DanielRichman> Hope you stocked up on liquid N2
[19:22] <Randomskk> it was dead before it got slashdotted
[19:22] <natrium42> oh, wow
[19:22] <DanielRichman> :D
[19:22] <DanielRichman> hahaha
[19:22] <natrium42> congrats rjharrison!!
[19:25] <DanielRichman> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8588156.stm
[19:26] <natrium42> this channel should grow soon
[19:26] <fsphil> was on the bbc news earlier
[19:26] <natrium42> happens every time :)
[19:26] <fsphil> was really surprised to see it
[19:27] <natrium42> hmm, i have bbc news international channel
[19:27] <natrium42> not sure they'll show it there
[19:27] <DanielRichman> that link above is a video
[19:27] <fsphil> DanielRichman's link is all of it
[19:27] <DanielRichman> I think the video from the news earlier
[19:27] <DanielRichman> yes
[19:28] <Randomskk> yea it is
[19:28] <DanielRichman> international users can watch the news vids; just not iplayer ones
[19:28] <Randomskk> though the space station perhaps orbits a bit higher
[19:29] <fsphil> I wonder if anything can be decoded from the it of rtty they played ;-)
[19:29] <fsphil> +b
[19:29] <natrium42> DanielRichman, yes, but i want to see it on TV :P
[19:30] <DanielRichman> my pc monitor > my tv
[19:31] <DanielRichman> hah fsphil I've got to try that
[19:33] <DanielRichman> there's not much at all in there
[19:33] <Randomskk> few seconds of data
[19:33] <Randomskk> probably not enough to get fldigi to align?
[19:33] <fsphil> mm, and they're talking over it
[19:33] <Randomskk> talking is unlikely to be an issue
[19:34] <Randomskk> their voices are not quite the same frequency :P
[19:34] <Randomskk> you might get a single character or two but probably not much more?
[19:36] <natrium42> haha, looks like rob's blog is slashdotted
[19:36] <natrium42> not loading here
[19:37] <Randomskk> we warned him yesterday =D
[19:38] <DanielRichman> I can't get anything out of it with fldigi
[19:40] <DanielRichman> I get "‰‰ªrÊbÒé" on 8 bit ascii"
[19:40] <DanielRichman> and "RJ" on 7 bit
[19:40] <fsphil> lol, he's using secret codes
[19:40] <DanielRichman> :O
[19:41] <DanielRichman> the video of him launching a payload - is that old? or filmed in the last few days?
[19:42] <natrium42> should have installed wp-supercache
[19:42] <natrium42> or whatever it's called
[19:43] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i don't think its real... he wouldn't launch from his back garden ;P
[19:43] <DanielRichman> I swear he let go of something
[19:44] <DanielRichman> Ahh we don't see it fly off. Maybe it's not real
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[19:47] <fsphil> heh, I've lost my laptop. teach me for getting a tiny one
[19:48] <cirrus-eating> think its on a line
[19:48] <cirrus-eating> high fsphil
[19:48] <cirrus-eating> hows module going?
[19:48] Nick change: cirrus-eating -> ProjectCirrus
[19:48] ProjectCirrus (~rhspm@cpc1-belf9-0-0-cust338.belf.cable.ntl.com) left irc:
[19:49] <fsphil> whoops
[19:49] cirrus-eating (~rhspm@cpc1-belf9-0-0-cust338.belf.cable.ntl.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:49] <fsphil> wb :)
[19:49] <Randomskk> natrium42: yea, wp-supercache
[19:49] <fsphil> module is going well, it's transmitting images -- working on receiver now
[19:49] <Randomskk> sweet
[19:49] <cirrus-eating> great!
[19:49] <Randomskk> what resolution are you getting?
[19:50] <fsphil> The camrea can do 640x480, but I'm keeping it to a saner 320x240
[19:50] <cirrus-eating> how long does one image take to send
[19:50] <Randomskk> fair enough
[19:50] <Randomskk> that serial camera from sparkfun?
[19:50] <fsphil> that's the one Randomskk
[19:50] <Randomskk> nice
[19:50] <fsphil> about 5 minutes
[19:50] <cirrus-eating> lol
[19:50] <fsphil> slower than sstv ;)
[19:50] <cirrus-eating> at what baud
[19:50] <fsphil> really-slow-scan-tv
[19:50] <Randomskk> can it manage missing a couple of bytes?
[19:50] <fsphil> 300 baud
[19:50] <Randomskk> properly testing the radios then :P
[19:50] <cirrus-eating> fair enough
[19:50] <Randomskk> got a nice yagi stack setup?
[19:50] <fsphil> reed-solomon error correction, should manage 16 errors per 256 block
[19:50] <DanielRichman> I want to try and do SSTV on ALIEn-2 but the other two won't let me
[19:51] <Randomskk> ah cool
[19:51] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: on a "too complicated" basis or what
[19:51] <fsphil> no stack, got a 10 element yagi -- thinking of getting a second
[19:51] <DanielRichman> on a "just no" basis. I don't know how they work
[19:51] <Randomskk> fsphil: got a rotator or some kind of thing to hold it in place?
[19:51] <Randomskk> ten ele is still pretty decent after all
[19:51] <Randomskk> high up and pointing in the right direction and it should be fine
[19:51] <fsphil> haven't thought that far ahead yet Randomskk -- was thinking of a camera tripod stand
[19:52] <fsphil> though something automatic would be fantastic
[19:52] <Randomskk> would probably work if you can affix it somehow but getting it high up helps a lot
[19:52] <cirrus-eating> are you using dl-fldigi to recieve the image data?
[19:53] <fsphil> probably, that's what I'm working on now. just getting to grips with git, c++ and fltk ;)
[19:53] Nick change: cirrus-eating -> ProjectCirrus
[19:53] <ProjectCirrus> lovely
[19:54] <ProjectCirrus> will you be able to send a pin high when you aren't transmitting, then wait for a 5v high input for you to begin?
[19:54] <ProjectCirrus> ie turn taking
[19:55] <fsphil> could do that, plenty of spare pins - but I'll be on a different frequency anyway
[19:55] <ProjectCirrus> do any of the experienced one know if we will affect each others transmissions
[19:56] <ProjectCirrus> would be a shame if we interfered at all and ruined the range of each others modules
[19:56] <DanielRichman> didn't cusf once launch two payloads, on different frequencies, and one reacted to the temperature differently and drifted into the other?
[19:57] <ProjectCirrus> its that sort of thing that i'm worried about!
[19:57] <fsphil> the last ballasthalo launch had a cw backup, very close together
[19:57] <fsphil> to the rtty frequency
[19:57] <fsphil> our modules are pretty far apart in frequency
[19:58] <fsphil> 434.075 vs. 434.650
[19:58] <fsphil> could test it though
[19:58] <ProjectCirrus> would two transmitting aerials beside each other not interact at all though?
[19:58] <fsphil> on the ground
[19:59] <ProjectCirrus> i agree, both at one is simpler
[19:59] <ProjectCirrus> as long as we don't hamper our range
[19:59] <fsphil> yea
[19:59] <fsphil> one aerial on top, one on bottom?
[19:59] <ProjectCirrus> sounds good to me
[20:00] <fsphil> also has the advantage that no matter what way we land, one should survive
[20:00] <ProjectCirrus> that way when payload comes down we have a better chance of recieving a radio signal
[20:00] <fsphil> great minds lol
[20:00] <ProjectCirrus> lol... same thing
[20:00] <ProjectCirrus> was going to type that until i realised the implication
[20:01] <ProjectCirrus> do you transmit at 300 baud for your telemetry as well?
[20:02] <fsphil> thinking I'll do that at 50 baud
[20:02] <fsphil> between each image packet
[20:02] <ProjectCirrus> can you run several instances of fl digi at once
[20:02] <fsphil> though that would slow the transfer
[20:02] <ProjectCirrus> on one pc
[20:02] <fsphil> seems to work on my machine
[20:02] <ProjectCirrus> sweet
[20:03] <ProjectCirrus> also, if you could get your images into the right format you could get them to upload onto the data stream
[20:03] <ProjectCirrus> then others could put the images together as theyt came in as well
[20:04] <ProjectCirrus> it will be like dial up all over again
[20:04] <fsphil> high altitude bittorrent
[20:04] <fsphil> hmm, that's a good idea
[20:05] <ProjectCirrus> i wonder could uk theoretically pick us up as well
[20:05] <ProjectCirrus> mainland that is
[20:06] <DanielRichman> you mean, pick up US HAB signals?
[20:06] <ProjectCirrus> yes
[20:06] <ProjectCirrus> from central northern ireland
[20:06] <DanielRichman> depends on the frequency they transmit on
[20:06] <ProjectCirrus> 433
[20:07] <DanielRichman> I doubt it
[20:07] <fsphil> south west of scotland should be in range, maybe bit if wales
[20:07] <ProjectCirrus> any listeners there?
[20:07] <fsphil> theoreticlly I should be able to get the cambridge launches when they get to about 30km
[20:07] <ProjectCirrus> didn't notice any on bhalo4
[20:07] <ProjectCirrus> theory is a wonderful thing
[20:08] <fsphil> isn't it just :)
[20:08] <fsphil> there was a listener in wales
[20:08] <fsphil> dunno about scotland
[20:08] <ProjectCirrus> turned out our issue with the cusf radio was one of an e-mail getting lost
[20:09] <ProjectCirrus> typical.... e-mail is reliable right until a critical e-mail is sent
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[20:09] <fsphil> unfortunately the map of listeners is missing, along with rjharrison's website ;-)
[20:09] <Enceladus> Hi all
[20:09] <fsphil> hiya Enceladus
[20:09] <ProjectCirrus> typique
[20:09] <Enceladus> Anyone see BBC news this evening?
[20:10] <ProjectCirrus> of course
[20:10] <fsphil> did indeed!
[20:10] <Enceladus> Who was it? Anyone on here?
[20:10] <fsphil> yep, was rjharrison
[20:10] <Enceladus> Was it indeed! Brilliant :)
[20:11] <edmoore|away> ProjectCirrus: yo
[20:11] <fsphil> I think so anyway .. boy it would be horrible if it was another rob!
[20:11] Nick change: edmoore|away -> edmoore
[20:11] <Enceladus> I saw it by chance. Didn't realise it was going to be on.
[20:12] <ProjectCirrus> hey ed
[20:12] <edmoore> rob's got slashdotted
[20:12] <ProjectCirrus> did you get my latest explanatory e-mail
[20:12] <edmoore> yes, odd that it seems to have gone astray
[20:13] <ProjectCirrus> yeah sorry but for whatever reason it never arrived..... stupid hotmail
[20:13] <GW8RAK> ProjectCirrus - I'm in North East Wales with a clear horizon to north through to west so if you want reports from over here, let me know your plans
[20:13] <edmoore> so I think we'd be better off doing the more expensive (about £50) but much more reliable DHL method
[20:13] <edmoore> the other one was about $42 so not much difference in it
[20:13] <edmoore> £42*
[20:13] <ProjectCirrus> how heavy is it?
[20:14] Action: Enceladus is away:
[20:14] <edmoore> about 2kg with everything
[20:14] <ProjectCirrus> only 2kg
[20:14] <edmoore> lots of the icarus articles seem to fixate upon the thing about nasa phoning rob up
[20:14] <edmoore> is that a bit of artistic license?
[20:16] <ProjectCirrus> if its only 2kg royal mail will do it with recorded delivery and £500 insurance for about a tenner
[20:17] <Randomskk> they do rather
[20:17] <ProjectCirrus> http://sg.royalmail.com/portal/rm/PriceFinderResults?pageId=pc_sltc_rm_results&catId=23500532&keyname=rmPriceFinderResults&_DARGS=/portal/rmgroup/apps/templates/html/rm/searchAgain.jsp
[20:18] <DanielRichman> the /.ers don't seem to like the nasa phone call
[20:18] <Randomskk> they don't rather
[20:18] <Randomskk> someone suggested it was someone from the cafeteria
[20:18] <fsphil> lol
[20:18] <DanielRichman> Maybe it was amplified by the press... ie, Rob mentions as a remark that someone who worked for nasa took interest in the project
[20:19] <DanielRichman> add capital letters to nasa and what do you get!?
[20:19] <Randomskk> lol
[20:19] <Randomskk> "Sadly, it will require more than duct tape and £500 to resurrect his server after a slashdotting."
[20:20] <ProjectCirrus> :)
[20:20] <fsphil> been a while since I saw a good slashdotting -- most of the sites hold up to it these days
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[20:21] <Randomskk> wordpress and joomla with no caching
[20:21] <Randomskk> mysql was getting raped
[20:21] <DanielRichman> ha
[20:21] <fsphil> faildot
[20:21] <Randomskk> and then apache got raped
[20:22] <ProjectCirrus> ed...do you see what I mean about the postage?
[20:22] <edmoore> i'd like to point out that the CUSF site has always held up on the few times it's been slashdotted :p
[20:23] <edmoore> ProjectCirrus: yes
[20:23] <Randomskk> I got my new laser from sparkfun today, it's great fun, visible beam as far as you can see out the window
[20:23] <Randomskk> edmoore: SRCF to thank for that :P
[20:23] <ProjectCirrus> i got one for christmas
[20:23] <DanielRichman> You've been shooting down low flying aircraft?
[20:23] <ProjectCirrus> tempted to put it on the balloon
[20:23] <edmoore> Randomskk: static content is to thank for that
[20:23] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: definitely not
[20:23] <Randomskk> edmoore: also that as soon as anyone loaded the front page...
[20:23] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: seriously, nope, that'd be stupid
[20:23] <DanielRichman> I know
[20:23] <Randomskk> edmoore: but yea, static html is the way forward
[20:24] <Randomskk> for something like that anyway
[20:24] <fsphil> lasers are cool!
[20:24] <DanielRichman> By the way: we were discussing taking photos at night with a downwards facing camera
[20:24] <Randomskk> fsphil: they are!
[20:24] <ProjectCirrus> wow high iso!
[20:24] <Randomskk> if I shine it onto the ceiling it lights up my room
[20:24] <DanielRichman> and Alex reckoned that the exposure would have to be very long, or have a very good/sensitive camera for it to work
[20:24] <ProjectCirrus> i agree
[20:24] <DanielRichman> has anyone tried it with a standard camera?
[20:24] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: he isn't exactly wrong, it would require very high iso
[20:25] <Randomskk> you'd probably just get blurry dots of light
[20:25] <ProjectCirrus> or lots of noise
[20:25] <Randomskk> I suspect dawn would be the time to do it
[20:25] <Randomskk> still get street lights and many building lights lighting up the towns
[20:25] <Randomskk> but enough light from the sun to get a bit of road detail
[20:25] <DanielRichman> yep. Noise, blurriness, shutter speed and ISOs came into the conversation
[20:25] <Randomskk> etc
[20:25] <DanielRichman> bad idea in general then?
[20:25] <DanielRichman> we could launch close to dawn to get a high altitude sunrise
[20:25] <ProjectCirrus> compacts are crud for low light
[20:25] <DanielRichman> but as far as downwards facing goes, don't bother?
[20:25] <Randomskk> high altitude sunrises have been done and are quite cool
[20:25] <ProjectCirrus> does that not lead to interesting CAA questions
[20:26] <Randomskk> I reckon just after dawn you'd get enough light to see stuff on the earth, but early enough in the a.m. that lots of artificial lights are on still
[20:26] <ProjectCirrus> well....... if you don't try you will never know
[20:26] <Randomskk> e.g. early morning drives to the airport in the dawn with street lights still on
[20:26] <DanielRichman> ah yes, does a downwards facing camera not count as a spy something or whatever?
[20:26] <ProjectCirrus> just get a compact with awesome low light performance
[20:27] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, it really doesn't
[20:27] <ProjectCirrus> might be worth waiting a while until better low light compacts come along
[20:27] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, it was either you or alex who mentioned it
[20:27] Action: Randomskk can't wait to put a downward facing camera on his quadcopter
[20:27] <Randomskk> so much fun potential
[20:27] <ProjectCirrus> or....... send an old slr up with high iso film!
[20:28] <Randomskk> especially if I stream images off it on 2.4ghz
[20:28] <sbasuita> Randomskk, has it got an auto-maintain-position feature?
[20:28] <Randomskk> sbasuita: right now it can't take off
[20:28] <Randomskk> so no
[20:28] <Randomskk> but it will do :P
[20:28] <sbasuita> ;(
[20:28] <DanielRichman> :)
[20:28] <sbasuita> Randomskk, you could have some sort of radio localiser that you could carry and have it follow you around
[20:29] <Randomskk> namely the controller with its xbee and a gps?
[20:29] Action: fsphil still hasn't found his laptop...
[20:29] <Randomskk> the handheld control will hopefully have a few neat things like that
[20:29] Laurenceb (~laurence@host86-136-234-181.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:29] <Randomskk> 'come to me' button etc
[20:29] <DanielRichman> give it some AI, arm it with flamethrowers, and order it to protect you
[20:29] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: that's exactly the plan
[20:29] <sbasuita> yeah but if you used gps it wouldn't be very accurate
[20:29] <Randomskk> assassins will never be the same again
[20:29] <Randomskk> sbasuita: gps is to within like 3m
[20:30] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, btw, are you dead or not?
[20:30] <Randomskk> given the kinda altitude it can fly at...
[20:30] <sbasuita> Randomskk, i thought gps was around 10 m ;\
[20:30] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: as far as assassins is concerned?
[20:30] <DanielRichman> yes
[20:30] <Randomskk> no game on
[20:30] <Randomskk> it's vacation
[20:30] <DanielRichman> how did the last game go then?
[20:30] <Randomskk> there are two long games a year, one in the first term and one in the second
[20:30] <Randomskk> they start about week two and go on until one person is left alive, which almost invariably happens after six weeks
[20:31] #highaltitude: mode change '+o edmoore' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[20:31] <Randomskk> in the third term there's a ten-day game in mayweek (after exams) where you respawn every four hours and the winner is whoever gets the most kills total
[20:31] <edmoore> there will be not talk of assain's guild tolerated on this channel
[20:31] <Randomskk> as you wish
[20:31] <edmoore> find yourself another room
[20:31] #highaltitude: mode change '-o edmoore' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[20:31] Action: sbasuita is confused
[20:32] <Randomskk> sbasuita: just DanielRichman getting me into trouble with ed :P
[20:33] <edmoore> by the way doing this:
[20:33] #highaltitude: mode change '+o edmoore' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[20:33] <sbasuita> Randomskk, the thing that we're not about to talk about sounds super awesome
[20:33] <Laurenceb> hi
[20:33] <sbasuita> s/about/allowed ;P
[20:33] <edmoore> is like when gandalf intimidates bilbo in his house by gorwing large and sounding boomy
[20:33] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I can't mention its name but it has a srcf page
[20:33] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, yeah i found that
[20:33] <Randomskk> edmoore: that was pretty much how it went down in my head
[20:33] #highaltitude: mode change '-o edmoore' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[20:33] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, read yesterday's logs
[20:33] <Laurenceb> rjharrison: bang go the theory suck
[20:34] <edmoore> Laurenceb: what makes you say that?
[20:34] <Laurenceb> 5 live this afternoon
[20:34] <Laurenceb> they basically insulted rjharrison live on air
[20:34] <Randomskk> isn't bang goes the theory a bbc thing?
[20:34] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:35] <Randomskk> 5 live?
[20:35] <Laurenceb> yes - radio
[20:35] <Randomskk> aah, okay
[20:35] <Laurenceb> they wre talking about HAB
[20:35] <Randomskk> who isn't
[20:35] <fsphil> it's a pretty rubbish show anyway
[20:35] <Randomskk> bbc1 news at 6 were too
[20:35] <sbasuita> Laurenceb, what did they say?
[20:35] <Laurenceb> apparently it was invented last year by bang goes the theory
[20:35] <sbasuita> ...
[20:35] <Randomskk> lol
[20:35] <Laurenceb> and rjharrison is trying to copy them
[20:35] <Randomskk> wasn't it rjharrison doing bang goes the theory's launch
[20:35] <Randomskk> last year
[20:35] <edmoore> no
[20:36] <edmoore> that was steve
[20:36] <Laurenceb> RocketBoy
[20:36] <sbasuita> Randomskk, that was RocketBoy|Away right?
[20:36] <Randomskk> ah, yea
[20:36] <edmoore> rocketboy
[20:36] <Randomskk> so it was
[20:36] <ProjectCirrus> so thats what he looks like
[20:36] <sbasuita> Laurenceb, is there a recording we can listen to?
[20:36] <Randomskk> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/radio/bbc_radio_five_live
[20:36] <Laurenceb> dunno - I only caught the end of the topic
[20:36] <Laurenceb> yeah maybe there
[20:37] <Laurenceb> this afternoon at 3 something or other
[20:37] <Laurenceb> I was working - just turned it on when someone told me what was on
[20:37] <sbasuita> hmm just the breakfast shows
[20:37] <Laurenceb> they had rjharrison on - he may have been prerecorded
[20:37] <Randomskk> the gabby logan one was midday today for two hours
[20:38] <Randomskk> 3pm?
[20:38] <Laurenceb> but if he was on live they cut to the news before he had a chance to reply
[20:38] <Randomskk> ah presumably the richard bacon one
[20:38] <Randomskk> 2pm to 4pm
[20:38] <Randomskk> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00rkj5d/Richard_Bacon_25_03_2010/
[20:38] <Laurenceb> yeah it was on his show
[20:38] <sbasuita> 2 hours to skim through :|
[20:39] <Randomskk> if it was about 3 though
[20:39] <DanielRichman> Found it
[20:39] <DanielRichman> at 50 minutes exactly
[20:39] <sbasuita> listening...
[20:40] <Randomskk> I've got traffic news at 50min
[20:40] Nick change: ProjectCirrus -> PCirrus-Away
[20:40] <Randomskk> ..?
[20:41] <Randomskk> ah here's bang goes the theory
[20:41] <sbasuita> yeah 51 mins
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[20:43] <Laurenceb> plagiarism is ridiculous
[20:44] <fsphil> yay, decoded this from the rtty on bbc: ,,,,29.5,
[20:44] <sbasuita> fsphil, great success :D
[20:44] <Laurenceb> * a rediculous thing to say
[20:44] <sbasuita> i'm at 54 mins... where does it get interesting?
[20:44] <fsphil> yep .. I finally received telemetry ;-)
[20:44] <fsphil> wasn't even line of site!
[20:45] <Randomskk> pfft you could clearly see the transmitter
[20:45] <rjharrison> Boo
[20:45] <fsphil> lol
[20:45] <Randomskk> on the tv :P
[20:45] <Randomskk> hi rjharrison
[20:45] <rjharrison> Weird day
[20:45] <Randomskk> haha I can imagine
[20:45] <Randomskk> nice spot on bbc1 :P
[20:46] <Laurenceb> bbc1 now ?!
[20:46] <rjharrison> I knew waking up to John Humphries talking about the Icarus Project at 6:50 in the morning was a little strange
[20:46] <Randomskk> 6 o clock news
[20:46] <Randomskk> 6pm news
[20:46] <rjharrison> I think it will be on the 10 o'clock news too
[20:46] <Randomskk> the video clip they had on the tv is on the bbc news site too
[20:47] <edmoore> yeah, it's a nice piece that the bbc did
[20:47] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, finished pouring water on your servers?
[20:47] <rjharrison> Should be on BskyB, ITV, CNN, & the BBC
[20:47] <rjharrison> DanielRichman :)
[20:47] <DanielRichman> we did warn you :D
[20:47] <Randomskk> cnn too eh
[20:47] <rjharrison> The netoek at work was running a little slow
[20:47] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@client-82-26-196-123.pete.adsl.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:48] <rjharrison> DanielRichman you did
[20:48] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, your work's website seems to have survived though; are they on different pipes or different servers or both?
[20:48] <rjharrison> All on the same pipe
[20:48] <Randomskk> presumably just the server's dead
[20:48] <rjharrison> Thankfully we don't have a web based buiness
[20:48] <Randomskk> poor mysql and apache :P
[20:48] <DanielRichman> any idea what caused mysql to die? ram or cpu?
[20:48] <Laurenceb> "A British inventor, Robert Harrison"
[20:48] <Laurenceb> nice accolade
[20:48] <edmoore> congrats on surving the whirl rjharrison! has it calmed down now?
[20:48] <rjharrison> lol
[20:49] <rjharrison> Cheers for the support ed
[20:49] <DanielRichman> also rjharrison we see you almost let go of a payload: old footage, or new footage where you filled a balloon (I recall you asked RocketBoy for a balloon yesterday?) but didn't fully let go
[20:49] <rjharrison> Appreciated it this afternoon
[20:49] <Laurenceb> I think bang goes the theory are jealous then
[20:49] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, it gets interesting at 1:05
[20:49] <rjharrison> I did a dummy launch in the back garden today (teathered)
[20:50] <rjharrison> It was in the metro, times, daily mail and mirror today
[20:51] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i just listened to the whole of 1:05-1:06 though....
[20:51] <DanielRichman> that's quite a catch. What caused the sudden media interest or was it some sort of snowball effect
[20:51] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, ssh it's beginning
[20:52] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, my bad, it starts nearer to 1:20
[20:52] <edmoore> where is the start of the bang goes theory on 5 live?
[20:52] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, ... ;P
[20:52] <DanielRichman> no wait, that's someone else
[20:52] <DanielRichman> there's bang goes the theory all over that show
[20:52] <Randomskk> edmoore: well bang goes the theory starts at like 55min
[20:52] <Randomskk> but yea
[20:52] <Randomskk> it's all throughout
[20:52] <edmoore> i'm not interested in listening to them, just the specific icarus bit
[20:52] <sbasuita> yes same
[20:52] <Randomskk> we're hunting
[20:53] <rjharrison> http://www.itv.com/news/diy-space-mission67582/
[20:53] <rjharrison> This is the itv news bit
[20:53] <Laurenceb> sorry I cant help - I was working and just caught it
[20:53] <sbasuita> rjharrison, haha, slightly underwhelming ;P Robert Harrison who works as an IT director, simply straps a camera to a balloon and lets it go.
[20:54] <DanielRichman> it's mentioned at 1:03
[20:54] <DanielRichman> oh there goes the NASA name drop
[20:54] <DanielRichman> but I can't hear rjh's voice yet
[20:54] <DanielRichman> "You lost out to this guy"
[20:54] <DanielRichman> "I think he was inspired by Jem"
[20:55] <Randomskk> ah yes
[20:55] <rjharrison> haha
[20:55] <rjharrison> Just watch that
[20:55] <Randomskk> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00rkj5d/Richard_Bacon_25_03_2010/ 1:03 rjharrison
[20:56] <Randomskk> lol they do sound miffed
[20:57] <DanielRichman> oh there's his voice
[20:57] <edmoore> lol yeah
[20:57] <Randomskk> "categorically plagiarised"
[20:57] <Randomskk> "clear"
[20:57] <edmoore> if only they knew
[20:57] <Randomskk> :P
[20:57] <Randomskk> they don't mention steve actually
[20:57] <Randomskk> ironic that
[20:57] <Randomskk> they're all "we did this"
[20:58] <sbasuita> oh wow
[20:58] <sbasuita> big reaction
[20:58] <DanielRichman> Those two presenters arn't the ones that did the launches with RocketBoy iirc
[20:58] <DanielRichman> maybe they didn't pay much attention to it
[20:58] <Randomskk> nice clip on ITV too
[20:59] <Randomskk> "sent his £500 camera into space..."
[20:59] <Randomskk> lol facts
[20:59] <sbasuita> well, if it were me i'd be getting in contact with bgtt to get it straight
[20:59] <Randomskk> a few seconds later, in the video, "standard point and click camera... £50 from ebay"
[20:59] Nick change: RocketBoy|Away -> RocketBoy
[20:59] <Laurenceb> 4.33 is out of order
[21:00] <edmoore> i think the greater issue was that the bgtt launch wasn't done by bgtt, but by steve
[21:00] <rjharrison> haha bang goes the theory
[21:00] <rjharrison> They sound pissed
[21:00] <RocketBoy> actually Dallas was at the Pudsey Bear/Sun launch
[21:00] <rjharrison> Yep I have him on icarus video
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[21:00] <Randomskk> they are like "he categorically plagiarised us" "clearly"
[21:01] <Randomskk> lol
[21:01] <Laurenceb> the point is poeple have been doing HAB launches for years
[21:01] <Laurenceb> dont they realise or what
[21:01] <Randomskk> RobertB: heya
[21:01] <Randomskk> uh
[21:01] <Randomskk> RocketBoy: heya*
[21:01] <Randomskk> sorry RobertB but hi anyway :P
[21:01] <rjharrison> Cool I think the pic from Oct 2008 predates the inception of Bang goes the theort
[21:01] <rjharrison> Cool I think the pic from Oct 2008 predates the inception of Bang goes the theory
[21:01] <Randomskk> haha
[21:01] <RocketBoy> nothing in the media is 100% real or accurate
[21:02] <fsphil> will be interesting to see how the Sun reports it: "Balloon kills kittens"
[21:02] <Randomskk> "eccentric scientist uses space camera to spy on children" more like?
[21:02] <fsphil> lol
[21:02] <edmoore> yeah. when we did teddybears, we 'sent a laptop and webcam into space' according to the mail and telegraph. it's all more or less nonsense. such is life.
[21:02] <fsphil> that'll be it
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> they did a balloon based 50th aniv - the sun
[21:02] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, where did the insane NASA name dropping come from?
[21:03] <edmoore> fsphil: the sane refered to me as a 'cambridge boffin' which is probably the nicest thing I've ever been called.
[21:03] <edmoore> the sun, not sane, sorry
[21:03] <fsphil> oh that's brilliant!
[21:03] <fsphil> interesting typo ed lol
[21:03] <edmoore> along with jokes about 'a space oddteddy' and 'the right stuffing' and every variation on a theme
[21:04] <RocketBoy> :-)
[21:04] <edmoore> i'd love to be a pun-writer for the sun
[21:05] <Laurenceb> bang goes acknowledging your sources
[21:05] <Randomskk> bang goes taking the credit
[21:06] <sbasuita> bang goes the presenters knowing anything about the projects they're doing
[21:06] <Randomskk> she has a masters in "science" apparently
[21:06] <sbasuita> Randomskk, i heard one of the females talking about how she never quite understood physics
[21:06] <Randomskk> admittedly she might mean an MSci
[21:07] <DanielRichman> i can du scienze
[21:07] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, (Y)
[21:07] <DanielRichman> Grr. I hate these online-homework sciences.
[21:07] <DanielRichman> **services
[21:07] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you actually do them?
[21:07] <Randomskk> I used to get adverts for getting people from cambridge to write my essays
[21:07] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, the standard excuse is "dunno what my login/password is"
[21:07] <DanielRichman> :D
[21:07] <RocketBoy> Jem is quite clued up technically
[21:08] <Randomskk> now I get adverts saying "oxbridge freelance writers needed"
[21:08] <DanielRichman> and what happens if you browse from an oxford IP
[21:08] <Randomskk> ^
[21:08] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, you don't use adblock?
[21:08] <Randomskk> well I suspect it's more the facebook network being cambridge
[21:08] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: no
[21:08] <DanielRichman> Why not?
[21:08] <Randomskk> out of general principle more than anything, I don't visit sites with obnoxious or disrupting adverts
[21:09] <DanielRichman> ah, fair enough
[21:09] <Laurenceb> bang goes the basic tenet of science that you acknowledge your sources
[21:09] <Randomskk> so for the remainder I'm happy enough to see the adverts
[21:09] <sbasuita> Randomskk, why would you be happy to see the adverts?
[21:09] <Randomskk> facebook admittedly gets silly at times but eh
[21:09] <fsphil> facebook has ads?
[21:09] <DanielRichman> I didn't realise FB had adverts for a humiliating-while
[21:09] <DanielRichman> yes exactly fsphil
[21:09] <Randomskk> it's interesting actually, on konqueror I had adblock
[21:09] <DanielRichman> I remember thinking to myself "how do they make money!?"
[21:09] <Randomskk> but haven't ever put it onto facebook
[21:09] <Randomskk> I've never actually clicked an advert
[21:10] <rjharrison> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8588156.stm
[21:10] <Randomskk> so seeing them is probably pointless
[21:10] <sbasuita> Randomskk, then you're just wasting your time downloading htem
[21:10] <DanielRichman> they're just annoying and start flash and munch my cpu
[21:10] <Randomskk> you raise a good point
[21:11] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, What caused the sudden media interest or was it some sort of snowball effect
[21:11] <Randomskk> I bet the NASA high altitude balloon team are loving it :P
[21:12] <DanielRichman> They're probably used to the fact that the media is a bit um...
[21:13] <Randomskk> I suspect so :P
[21:14] <fsphil> does the met office use HABs?
[21:14] <rjharrison> http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Camera-Taped-To-Helium-Balloon-Takes-Amazing-Pictures-Of-Earths-Surface-22-Miles-Above-The-Planet/Article/201003415582176?lpos=UK_News_Second_Home_Page_Feature_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15582176_Camera_Taped_To_Helium_Balloon_Takes_Amazing_Pictures_Of_Earths_Surface_22_Miles_Above_The_Planet
[21:14] <rjharrison> if you arnt board yet
[21:14] <DanielRichman> now *that* is a URL -.-
[21:14] <Randomskk> fsphil: yea
[21:14] <RocketBoy> Oh - just found it - Dallas/Liz are well pissed
[21:15] <Randomskk> aren't they just
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[21:16] <RocketBoy> but wrong
[21:16] <Randomskk> you mean to say rjharrison didn't categorically plagiarise you? :P
[21:17] <RocketBoy> clearly Bang did the launch not me
[21:17] <Laurenceb> someone should email 5 live to say
[21:18] <sbasuita> definitely
[21:18] <Laurenceb> I mean when its on the radio like that to the average person it looks like Bang invented HAB
[21:18] <edmoore> I'm sure they will drop everything and broadcast a correction Laurenceb
[21:19] <Laurenceb> heh
[21:19] <DanielRichman> along with an apology in the next bang ep.
[21:19] <edmoore> just make sure you let them know how really jolly improper it was
[21:19] <Randomskk> just not cricket etc
[21:19] <fsphil> times online article is pretty fair: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7074839.ece
[21:20] <fsphil> found it searching for the met office balloons
[21:20] <PCirrus-Away> well i know the met office use balloons but i don't think ever photographic
[21:21] <fsphil> yea, the payload sees too small to hold a camera
[21:21] <fsphil> no point I suppose
[21:21] <fsphil> they're only interested in the raw data
[21:21] <edmoore> ROOOOAAARRR
[21:21] <edmoore> data
[21:21] <PCirrus-Away> true science
[21:21] <fsphil> naked information
[21:22] <PCirrus-Away> eugh yuk
[21:22] <RocketBoy> who knows C ?
[21:22] <PCirrus-Away> numerical pornography
[21:22] <fsphil> I DO C
[21:22] <Laurenceb> " John Ellis wrote:
[21:22] <Laurenceb> Robert Harrison is a genius and should be knighted."
[21:22] <Laurenceb> from the times site :D
[21:22] <RocketBoy> why should if ((u08)(mid_bit - last_edge) < duration) return a different result to if ((mid_bit - last_edge) < duration)
[21:23] <RocketBoy> if they are all u08
[21:23] <Laurenceb> ooh that looks like RTTY decoder code
[21:23] <PCirrus-Away> lol phil you seem quite sure of your knowledge of that particualar programming language
[21:23] <RocketBoy> tis
[21:23] <fsphil> I grew up speaking C ;-)
[21:23] <Laurenceb> so you have an iddue due to u08
[21:24] <Laurenceb> being different from s08
[21:24] <fsphil> RocketBoy, is id_bit - last_edge a negative number?
[21:24] <Laurenceb> looks like to me
[21:24] <rjharrison> It all bolox :)
[21:24] <rjharrison> A bit of fun
[21:24] <RocketBoy> they are all unsigned chars
[21:24] <Laurenceb> which would why it fails
[21:24] <DanielRichman> RocketBoy, but if last_edge is greater than mid_bit
[21:24] <Laurenceb> hmm
[21:24] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:24] <RocketBoy> so no negative nos anywhere
[21:25] <fsphil> (u08) 1 - 2 == 255
[21:25] <fsphil> it wraps around
[21:25] <Laurenceb> if last_edge can be greater than mid_bit you shouldnt really do that
[21:25] <Laurenceb> unless you understand the wrap around
[21:25] <Laurenceb> and account for it in your logical test
[21:25] <PCirrus-Away> right I could talk here all night, but i have to go work on uni stuff or ProjectCirrus will never get off the ground! see you all later
[21:25] <RocketBoy> don't worry about the nos - the two return different results for the same ni set
[21:26] <fsphil> later jon!
[21:26] <RocketBoy> number set
[21:26] PCirrus-Away (~rhspm@cpc1-belf9-0-0-cust338.belf.cable.ntl.com) left irc:
[21:26] <DanielRichman> RocketBoy, and you're sure nowhere in that number set last_edge is greater than mid_bit? can we have some of the numbers & results?
[21:26] <RocketBoy> so why do i need to cast the (mid_bit - last_edge) bit
[21:26] <Laurenceb> rjharrison: why the huge media interest?
[21:27] <Laurenceb> did you approach them?
[21:27] <rjharrison> loacl media then syndicated to national
[21:27] <RocketBoy> like I said - don't worry about the nos - there should be no difference in calculation
[21:28] <RocketBoy> the result of (mid_bit - last_edge) where both are u08 should be a u08 and not need to be cast right?
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[21:28] <DanielRichman> u08 is unsigned and cannot be a negative number
[21:28] <DanielRichman> however u08 - u08 could result in a neg number
[21:28] <RocketBoy> your point is?
[21:28] <DanielRichman> which if cast will cause you trouble
[21:28] <Randomskk> which would wrap around
[21:29] <RocketBoy> don't worry about wrap
[21:29] <RocketBoy> why is (mid_bit - last_edge) different to (u08)(mid_bit - last_edge) ?
[21:29] <Laurenceb> oh got you
[21:29] <Laurenceb> sorry
[21:30] <Laurenceb> it must be typecasting that as s08
[21:30] <RocketBoy> when mid_bit & last_edge are both u08
[21:30] <fsphil> what type is duration?
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[21:30] <RocketBoy> so is this a compiler error - or something about c I don't know
[21:30] <RocketBoy> ?
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[21:31] <RocketBoy> duration is a u08 too
[21:31] <Laurenceb> the compiler may try to typecast duration as s08
[21:31] <Laurenceb> and compare s08
[21:32] <RocketBoy> perhaps the result of brackets is promoted to int?
[21:32] <Laurenceb> with the typecast as u08 on the left it doesnt
[21:32] <Laurenceb> maybe thats what happens
[21:32] <Laurenceb> maybe that also
[21:32] <Laurenceb> depends on the compiler
[21:32] <RocketBoy> shouldn't do - its C
[21:32] <Laurenceb> I always add my own typecasts to be sure its doing what I want
[21:33] <RocketBoy> yeah thats best
[21:33] <rjharrison> DanielRichman are you doing the DoS on myserver
[21:33] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, nope
[21:33] <RocketBoy> just didn't expect it to
[21:33] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, that's your /. ing
[21:33] <rjharrison> It's puuched
[21:33] <rjharrison> phucked
[21:34] <DanielRichman> Yep
[21:34] <rjharrison> lo
[21:34] <Randomskk> rjharrison: massively
[21:34] <rjharrison> Ho well
[21:34] <DanielRichman> It was running slow when timesonline linked you
[21:34] <rjharrison> Glad we're not launching today
[21:34] <DanielRichman> but then the direct link from the slashdot properly finished it off
[21:34] <rjharrison> haha
[21:34] <Randomskk> RocketBoy: I only get different results if mid_bit is less than last_edge
[21:34] <Randomskk> otherwise they're the same
[21:34] <rjharrison> I need a new host
[21:35] <Randomskk> rjharrison: how often are you expecting to get slashdotted?
[21:35] <Randomskk> not worth upgrading everything after the fact if it works all the rest of the time
[21:35] <rjharrison> i'm joaking
[21:35] <rjharrison> joking
[21:35] <Randomskk> ah, fair enough
[21:35] <DanielRichman> you could atleast cache some stuff
[21:35] <Randomskk> on the other hand though it is worth setting things up so they don't die so quick
[21:36] <Randomskk> nginx is much better than apache in this situation, php works happier with an opcode cache, wp-supercache will reduce the load on mysql a hell of a lot
[21:36] <RocketBoy> Randomskk: thanks - I guess it would be treating something differently - my question is why
[21:36] <DanielRichman> I imagine joomla and wp have caching modules
[21:36] <DanielRichman> Or if you can't be bothered with the above you could stick a squid proxy in between or something
[21:37] <Randomskk> RocketBoy: looks like in the casting case it casts to the 8 bit value
[21:37] <Randomskk> while when you don't explicitely cast it seems to be using a larger sized unsigned int
[21:38] <Randomskk> though that may be an artifact of how I'm testing
[21:38] <fsphil> I get the same result
[21:38] <Randomskk> namely giving it to printf as an argument and telling printf it's a %u
[21:38] <Randomskk> which would make it expect an (unsigned int) normally
[21:39] <Randomskk> yea
[21:39] <Randomskk> if I make some u8s to store the result of the subtraction
[21:39] <Randomskk> then both appear the same
[21:44] <fsphil> ah
[21:44] <fsphil> it's because of the the integer promotion rules
[21:44] <RocketBoy> so the result of a (u08 - u08) is an unsigned int?
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[21:45] <fsphil> seems that way, I'm trying to find a more explicit explanation
[21:46] <Randomskk> RocketBoy: it may be evaluated as such depending on what is looking at it, it seems
[21:46] <Randomskk> make a u8, store the result of the subtraction in that, then do the < comparison
[21:48] <fsphil> http://supp.iar.com/Support/?note=12582
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[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> hello people
[21:53] <RocketBoy> yeah its integer promotion - I should have known
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy
[21:53] <fsphil> hiya Lunar_Lander !
[21:53] <RocketBoy> tis working again
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> I got one for you
[21:53] <RocketBoy> Lunar_Lander: Hi
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> can you imagine that the new Weather Bureau of India only has a snail-mail address?
[21:54] <RocketBoy> really - no
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.mausam.gov.in/WEBIMD/contact_us.jsp
[21:58] <RocketBoy> and the reciver is off the hook - so I can't even phone them
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:00] <RocketBoy> So whats a phone that I could get cheapish on ebay that has a built in GPS that someone can use for tracking?
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[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> good question
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy I called up German Flight safety
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> they said, 1500g balloon + 2.3kg payload is no problem
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[22:24] <fsphil> heh, it's on bbc1 again
[22:25] <Laurenceb> bbc news now
[22:25] <fsphil> nice pile of bricks
[22:27] <fsphil> that's brilliant
[22:27] <RocketBoy> Lunar_Lander: cool - but personally I'd be going for something smaller
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:27] <fsphil> If I'd done that, I'd just look like a bumbling idiot
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> I just gave them the maximum thing possible
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> to be sure that anything smaller is ok :P
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> the woman on the phone said that they have people handling balloons up to 4.5 kg in Bavaria (they count balloon+payload weight)
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> I think that is quite massive
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> and it almost seems like a "Super-Heavy" class flight:)
[22:30] <fsphil> how do I delete temporary build files in git?
[22:30] <Randomskk> well it's not git's concern
[22:30] <Randomskk> but 'make clean'
[22:30] <Randomskk> you can however use git
[22:31] <Randomskk> 'git clean -rf' will remove all files not tracked by git
[22:31] <Randomskk> making the current directory exactly like the repository (well except for uncommited changes which are kept)
[22:31] <Randomskk> (git reset --hard will revert uncommitted changes to the latest committed version)
[22:31] <Randomskk> make clean will remove object and output files
[22:31] <fsphil> perfect -- thanks
[22:32] <fsphil> untracked files will remain if I switch branches, yea?
[22:32] <Randomskk> yes
[22:32] <Randomskk> but since switching updates files, you can still just make again
[22:32] <Randomskk> and make will know what to do
[22:32] <Randomskk> however yea you can make clean to remove object files and force everything to be recompiled
[22:32] <Randomskk> ./configure will always reconfigure and regenerate makefiles
[22:32] <Randomskk> autoreconf will remake the configure, too
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy there actually was some confusion because I talked about 10-20 kg in my initial E-Mail!
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> but that cleared up quickly
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[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> asked Bolivia for ozone and Peru for magnetism
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[23:00] Nick change: N900evil -> SpeedEvil
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[23:03] <fuzzylugnuts> rjharrison: Dude, I just saw you on the news
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> so did several others. :)
[23:04] <fuzzylugnuts> : )
[23:04] <fuzzylugnuts> neat.
[23:05] <fuzzylugnuts> I would have enver thought that was possible
[23:05] <fuzzylugnuts> I thought that was a TV show JUST FOR ME
[23:05] <fuzzylugnuts> ;P
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> fuzzylugnuts I alredy have an agreement with SWR when my flight comes xD
[23:07] <fuzzylugnuts> SWR?
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> south west rail?
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> "Südwestrundfunk"
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> Radio and TV for South-Western Germany
[23:09] <fuzzylugnuts> Ahh ok
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> when my idea was still around a manned balloon for 5 km altitude, I was also with NDR
[23:10] <fuzzylugnuts> Media is pretty good. Hopefully it will inspire others to take a crack at it
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> which is for Northern Germany
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> but when I told the guy there that I switched to unmanned and stratospheric, he said that this could be "too special" to bring it to the general audience
[23:11] <fsphil> let us know when it's on Lunar_Lander
[23:11] <fsphil> I don't speak german, but I can get SWR
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> I will for sure
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> via ASTRA?
[23:12] <fsphil> yea
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> yea, thanks Mr. Clarke :P
[23:12] <fsphil> yep yep!
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> Arthur C. Clarke actually invented the Geostationary Comsat
[23:12] <fsphil> every home in the UK used to get it, before Sky switched to astra 2
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> I liked to watch Dutch Regional TV because there was quite some good stuff
[23:13] <fsphil> I remember at night some of the channels would show a burning fire, or a camera in the front of a train
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> but then they went to ASTRA 3 for no apperant reson
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :P
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> the old VOX
[23:13] <fsphil> or space night! on BR
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that is the best
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> btw, VOX still is the only station to show german dubbed BBC documentaries
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> I call this the "Scientific Sunday" because they run every Sunday morning
[23:15] <fsphil> Some great BBC documentaries -- some of the best stuff they make
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> I think VOX was also the first station to show the "Space Odyssey" movie
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[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> I now wrote some new potential partners
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> in Bolivia, Peru, American Samoa and the Marshall Islands
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[23:29] <PCirrus-Away> we just got IAA clearance,
[23:29] <PCirrus-Away> Project cirrus is a go
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> very nice
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> when is the launch?
[23:29] <PCirrus-Away> well at least thats half our permissions are cleared
[23:29] <PCirrus-Away> 12th of april onwards depending on weather
[23:29] <fsphil> Woo-hoo!!
[23:29] <PCirrus-Away> just the CAA to confirm now
[23:30] <fsphil> crap, now I've got a deadline *g*
[23:30] <PCirrus-Away> they didn't even give us any obvious restrictions
[23:30] <PCirrus-Away> well our deadline is worse... we haven't even got our telemetry system tested yet!
[23:30] <PCirrus-Away> but soon... very soon we will
[23:31] <PCirrus-Away> radio is on its way tomorrow
[23:31] <fsphil> Have you decided on the launch site?
[23:31] <PCirrus-Away> well we can't until 4 days before
[23:32] <PCirrus-Away> but we now have 5
[23:32] <PCirrus-Away> 3north 2 south
[23:32] <PCirrus-Away> i'll e-mail you the new set
[23:32] <fsphil> thanks
[23:32] <PCirrus-Away> but basically
[23:32] <PCirrus-Away> coagh is your closest
[23:32] <PCirrus-Away> but we have one all rounder site in creggan if the wind is low
[23:33] <PCirrus-Away> also handy for you
[23:33] <fsphil> on the omagh road?
[23:36] <PCirrus-Away> yeah thats prob it, just sent you the e-mail
[23:36] <PCirrus-Away> sorry but the sites are all seperate because of official requirements
[23:39] <fsphil> I drove through there last week, it's all empty more or less.
[23:40] <fsphil> quite high up too, good view all around
[23:41] <rjharrison> nights
[23:41] <rjharrison> all
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[23:43] <PCirrus-Away> yeah, the requirements prefered somewhere with a postcode and our team will probably camp wherever we intend to go the night before, so that area made sense to us
[23:43] <PCirrus-Away> the southern sites are official camp sites and coagh is my cousins farm
[23:44] <fsphil> any particular time of day for the launch?
[23:44] <PCirrus-Away> subject to change due to atc requirements but likely to be morning rather than afternoon
[23:45] <PCirrus-Away> flight time of 2.5 hours
[23:45] <PCirrus-Away> i'd tried for a little later but atc didn't like it!
[23:45] <fsphil> busier probably
[23:46] <fsphil> I'll have to see what kind of transport I can get
[23:46] <fsphil> and what I'll be bringing
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[23:50] <PCirrus-Away> no probs
[23:50] <PCirrus-Away> i was just sending a clarification e-mail to the IAA there
[23:58] <PCirrus-Away> was tuning your ntx2 pretty simple phil?
[23:58] <PCirrus-Away> any stumbling blocks i should be aware of?
[00:00] --- Fri Mar 26 2010