highaltitude.log.20100324

[00:02] <Randomskk> does anyone here know anything about the ukhas space experiment entry thing from a few years back?
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[01:11] <earthshi1e> natrium42
[01:12] Nick change: earthshi1e -> earthshine
[01:13] <earthshine> natrium42: ping
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[02:04] <Randomskk> hah, neat. http://0xad2dee4d
[02:09] <natrium42> earthshine, sup?
[02:10] <natrium42> Randomskk, hehe, i wonder who got 0xDEADBEEF and 0xCAFEBABE
[02:10] <Randomskk> probably they don't even realise
[02:11] <natrium42> nobody, lame
[02:12] <Randomskk> it's 222.173.190.239
[02:12] <Randomskk> China
[02:13] <Randomskk> Beijing perhaps
[02:13] <Randomskk> domestic or business by the looks of things
[02:14] <Randomskk> anyway zzz
[02:14] <natrium42> nite
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[07:16] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, http://googlegeodevelopers.blogspot.com/2010/03/aint-no-mountain-high-enough.html
[07:16] <natrium42> google maps api added elevation
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[08:21] <rjharrison> who
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[08:29] <rjharrison> anyone have the hourly prediction link to hand
[08:37] <earthshine> morning
[08:39] <rjharrison> Hi earthshine
[08:39] <rjharrison> Got the link
[08:39] <rjharrison> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/
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[08:41] <earthshine> can someone send me a DM as a test please
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[08:49] <rjharrison> earthshine, did you get the PM?
[08:52] <earthshine> yes but blank box again
[08:52] <earthshine> hmm
[08:54] <earthshine> will have to restart IRSSI
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[09:00] <earthshine> back
[09:00] <earthshine> can someone send me a test DM please
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[09:02] <rjharrison> earthshine, did that work?
[09:02] <earthshine> yes thanks
[09:03] <earthshine> weird that
[09:03] <rjharrison> Cool
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[10:16] <jonsowman> morning all
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[10:30] <shauno> so, the UK Space Agency comes into being on April 1st. Seems highly appropriate.
[10:31] <jonsowman> shauno: haha hmm
[10:36] <Laurenceb> lol
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[10:40] <shauno> I can't be the only one that read http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8579270.stm twice looking for the punchline
[10:41] <SpeedEvil> it's the headline
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[11:06] Nick change: laurence_ -> Laurenceb
[11:06] Action: Laurenceb is getting confused by connectors
[11:06] <Laurenceb> 2mm SMD JST is huge - massive pads :(
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> JST?
[11:07] <Laurenceb> looks like 2mm through hole JST is nicer
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> oh - the connector
[11:07] <Laurenceb> yes
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> well - you need large pads with big connecotrs, or it falls off the board.
[11:08] <Laurenceb> yeah - the cable tension as well
[11:09] <Laurenceb> connecotrs are a pita
[11:09] <Laurenceb> interestingly you can get 2.5mm JST that will work with 0.1'' holes for small number of pins
[11:09] <Laurenceb> but its very heavy duty
[11:13] <Laurenceb> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=500006+1003651+5043137&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=JST&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&No=0&getResults=true&appliedparametrics=true&locale=en_UK&catalogId=&prevNValues=500006+1003651&filtersHidden=false&appliedHidden=false&originalQueryURL=%2Fjsp%2Fsearch%2Fbrowse.jsp%3FN%3D500006%2B1003651%26Ntk%3Dgensearch_001%26Ntt%3DJST%26Ntx%3Dmode%2Bmatchallpartial%26No%3D0%26getResults%3Dt
[11:13] <Laurenceb> rue%26appliedparametrics%3Dtrue%26locale%3Den_UK%26catalogId%3D%26prevNValues%3D500006%2B1003651
[11:13] <Laurenceb> eek
[11:13] <Laurenceb> sorry
[11:13] <earthshine> O.O
[11:14] <Laurenceb> http://uk.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/b4b-ph-sm4-tb-lf-sn/header-top-entry-smd-4way/dp/9491929
[11:14] <Laurenceb> is what I meant
[11:14] <Laurenceb> - the photo I mean - I think they have got the wrong photo for that part no
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[11:15] <Laurenceb> oh hang on no - that is the SMD on
[11:16] <Laurenceb> with huge pads - this is more like it http://uk.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/b4b-ph-k-s-lf-sn/header-top-entry-4way/dp/9492437
[11:16] <Laurenceb> 9.9x4.5mm for 4 way
[11:23] <Laurenceb> anyone here used the FTDI ICs ?
[11:23] <Randomskk> yea
[11:24] <Laurenceb> would one be fried if you apply 3v3 to VCCIO and no usb connected?
[11:25] <Randomskk> don't /think/ so, should be similar to e.g. an arduino without usb connected
[11:26] <Laurenceb> according to datasheet it should origionate from the same supply
[11:28] <Laurenceb> I suspect if you wanted to interface with a seperate 3.3v device youd use the 3.3v supply from the device to power the entire IC
[11:28] <Laurenceb> so... in that case could it be fried if it was connected to usb with no device plugged in
[11:31] <Laurenceb> ah theres examples of what I'm thinking about in the FTDI datasheet NVM
[11:32] <Laurenceb> you need to tie the USB supply rail to the reset pin if its self powered
[11:33] <Laurenceb> nice that it can do level switching thats handy
[11:39] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[12:47] <juxta_> hi all
[12:47] <earthshine> hey
[12:49] <earthshine> Juxta did you have a pressure sensor on your payload ?
[12:52] <juxta_> hey Mike, I sure did
[12:53] <juxta_> also, no hassles re the emails, I was just wondering what went on :)
[12:53] <earthshine> np
[12:53] <earthshine> Which sensor did you use ?
[12:56] <juxta_> 2 secs, lemme check
[12:56] <earthshine> Also, question about the u-center software....
[12:56] <juxta_> sure
[12:56] <earthshine> There are the 3 naviagtion modes - Nav, Nav3 and Nv5 - Which one did you change to aircraft mode and which mode?
[12:57] <juxta_> I tired to change them all
[12:57] <juxta_> from memory it only let me change 1
[12:57] <juxta_> and I set it to airborne, < 1G
[12:57] <earthshine> ok cool
[12:58] <juxta_> earthshine: http://www.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc/data_sheet/MPX4115.pdf
[12:58] <juxta_> that's the sensor I used
[12:58] <juxta_> but the range on it is not so good
[12:58] <juxta_> I'll use something else next time
[12:58] <earthshine> would the payload not get greater than 1g after burst?
[12:59] <juxta_> no
[12:59] <juxta_> it will not accel faster than 1G unless it has external thrust
[12:59] <juxta_> even in a total vaccum it would only accel at 1.0G :)
[13:00] <Randomskk> if not slightly less given as it's a little bit higher up
[13:00] <juxta_> haha, good point
[13:00] <juxta_> gravity would be weaker, but I think you'd have a hard time measuring it ;p
[13:00] <Randomskk> yea :P
[13:00] <earthshine> ahh of course - schoolboy physics
[13:01] <Randomskk> 30km out on a 6000km radius planet isn't really much
[13:03] <juxta_> the ACMA got in contact with me today
[13:03] <juxta_> equiv of your OFCOM i guess
[13:03] <Randomskk> what'd they have to say?
[13:04] <juxta_> they say I didn't write my address on my radio license application, which ios rubbish, considering they already sent me some mail about it
[13:04] <Randomskk> lol nice
[13:04] <Randomskk> amateur radio license?
[13:04] <juxta_> yeah
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[15:08] <Laurenceb> what the HGF?!
[15:13] <earthshine> ?
[15:17] <rharrison_work> Laurenceb, my work
[15:17] <rharrison_work> Deesm to be default on this xchat
[15:17] <rharrison_work> seems
[15:18] <rharrison_work> I'm going to be on ITV this evening (yorkshire only)
[15:21] <earthshine> what for Robert?
[15:29] <N900evil> they caught him.
[15:29] <N900evil> :)
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[15:51] <earthshine> Will you be standing on the steps of a courthouse with your lawyer?
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[15:58] <rharrison_work> earthshine, no I hope not
[15:58] <earthshine> :D
[15:58] <earthshine> So what is it for ?
[15:58] <rharrison_work> It's about the Icarus project
[15:59] <rharrison_work> The local paper covered the story and now a few other people want to cover it
[15:59] <earthshine> What time is it on?
[15:59] <rharrison_work> Apparently it might be in the times tomorrow
[15:59] <rharrison_work> 6pm tonight Calendar (Yorkshire ITV)
[16:00] <rharrison_work> It may also be in The Times tomorrow on page 4
[16:00] <earthshine> Cool i'll record it
[16:00] <rharrison_work> weird
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[16:19] <earthshine> What's weird ?
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[16:53] <fergusnoble> hello
[16:53] <Randomskk> yo
[16:54] <fergusnoble> hey! i have your buspirate
[16:54] <fergusnoble> :(
[16:55] <Randomskk> I have a sexy new v3 bus pirate now
[16:55] <fergusnoble> hows the quadcopter coming along?
[16:55] <fergusnoble> oh cool
[16:55] <Randomskk> props spinning but not yet fast enough for takeoff
[16:55] <Randomskk> working on bemf detection
[16:55] <Randomskk> haven't had much time to work on it
[16:55] <Randomskk> hooked up the bemf to the scope in the lab and it's a bit weird
[16:55] <Randomskk> there are like three concurrent traces
[16:55] <fergusnoble> then its not triggering probably
[16:56] <Randomskk> yet it's consistent
[16:56] <fergusnoble> or there are three distinct events causing it to trigger
[16:56] <Randomskk> yea, probably something like that
[16:56] <fergusnoble> strange though
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[16:56] <Randomskk> possibly that drain going low, drain going high and finally actual bemf
[16:56] <fergusnoble> yeah
[16:56] <Randomskk> just requires some toying with the code hopefully
[16:57] <Randomskk> it starts from rest and gets spinning, just nowhere near full speed
[16:57] <fergusnoble> what do you think it is? timing issue or not enough juice?
[16:57] <Randomskk> I suspect timing but need to verify really
[16:58] <Randomskk> the battery can definitely deliver the power
[16:58] <Randomskk> but right now it's running from a wallwart supply which can only do a few amps
[16:58] <earthshine> My Bus Pirate arrived last week too. haven'ty had a chance to play with it yet.
[16:58] <Randomskk> I like to imagine a few amps is still sufficient to do bemf based spinning even if it's not enough to generate significant lift
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[16:59] <Randomskk> I am somewhat concerned that my connectors for power and motor aren't really beefy enough, it all needs a bit of playing around with
[16:59] <Randomskk> hopefully will have some time this vacation but probably not :P "revision"
[17:02] <fergusnoble> yeah, i know how you feel
[17:03] <fergusnoble> really want to get badger2.1 done
[17:03] <fergusnoble> but no time
[17:03] <Randomskk> I opened that in eagle
[17:03] <Randomskk> ouch
[17:03] <fergusnoble> hehe yeah its quite the board
[17:03] <Randomskk> yea, you don't wanna turn all layers on :P
[17:03] <Randomskk> also running drc is fun
[17:04] <Randomskk> what tolerances did it take to get that made?
[17:04] <Randomskk> the pads on several of the chips were DRCing with themselves even on 6/6
[17:04] <fergusnoble> oh ed fucked up there :)
[17:04] <fergusnoble> he did quite a bit of the routing on that board
[17:04] <fergusnoble> and despite me telling him several times to run drc he never did
[17:04] <fergusnoble> so there are a whole bunch of errors on the board
[17:04] <Randomskk> yea there are quite a significant number of drc errors
[17:05] <fergusnoble> 820 is a number which sticks in my mind
[17:05] <Randomskk> it does depend on what tolerances you give it
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[17:05] <fergusnoble> yeah
[17:05] <Randomskk> and to be fair several hundred of them are single part footprints clashing with themselves
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[17:05] <fergusnoble> there were some really annoying ones like a ground via being on top of a track on an internal layer
[17:05] <Randomskk> probably less than ten are really really important, e.g. "this trace runs over this trace" :P
[17:06] <Randomskk> haha yea I remember
[17:06] <Randomskk> dremel time
[17:06] <fergusnoble> had to use a dremel to mill down through only the right layers
[17:06] <fergusnoble> yup
[17:06] <fergusnoble> for the next revision though im going to move the inertial sensors off onto a daughterboard i think
[17:07] <Randomskk> for emi or just to make life easier?
[17:07] <fergusnoble> a few things, new ones come out so often and they are not all needed in every configuration
[17:07] <fergusnoble> and they are the expensive part
[17:08] <junderwood> fergusnoble, have you considered a can over the transmitter as well
[17:08] <Randomskk> true
[17:08] <fergusnoble> you could use it as a balloon payload without the inertial board at all
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[17:08] <fergusnoble> junderwood: good idea, did you notice much interference when it was transmitting?
[17:09] <junderwood> The GPS was struggling on the last flight - especially BadgerCub. (Although that was partially the wrong dynamic mode being set)
[17:09] <junderwood> It can't hurt to keep all that RF away from the GPS
[17:10] <fergusnoble> yup
[17:10] <Randomskk> lol badgercub on the last flight
[17:10] <fergusnoble> i will also try and make the split ground planse a bit more sensible
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[17:10] <fergusnoble> junderwood: any other thoughts from your experience with the board?
[17:11] <Randomskk> jonsowman and I were looking at making a bc2 kind of deal but the radio situation is such a mess
[17:11] <fergusnoble> or nice-to-haves that could go into the next revision?
[17:11] <Randomskk> stupid licensing laws
[17:11] <junderwood> erc
[17:11] <junderwood> drc
[17:11] <junderwood> :-)
[17:11] <Randomskk> :P
[17:11] <fergusnoble> hehe, well you can ask ed about that
[17:11] <junderwood> and get rid of those rate gyros
[17:12] <fergusnoble> yeah i was thinking the new invensense 3axis in one package one
[17:12] <fergusnoble> or do you mean in favour of something more accurate like the adxls
[17:12] <junderwood> will probably have the same problem - edge pads too close to ground pad
[17:12] <fergusnoble> i think it would be ok with a proper board layout
[17:13] <junderwood> I would look at the ST LPR530AL
[17:13] <junderwood> fewer pads, better spacing, same functionality
[17:13] <Randomskk> those parts are quite nice
[17:14] <Randomskk> and you can get three axis from two in-plane ICs
[17:14] <junderwood> Oh, and whatever you do, I would avoid signals going under the centre ground pad on any of those devices
[17:14] <fergusnoble> yup
[17:14] <fergusnoble> yeah i would never do that
[17:14] <junderwood> They may be OK if you solder it on corretly first time but on the 10th hot air reflow the resist tends to get a little tired
[17:15] <fergusnoble> i was thinking the new invensense could be good because it has an integrated ADC
[17:15] <fergusnoble> yeah, along with a bunch of the other components
[17:15] <Randomskk> integrated adc is nice if it's suitably accurate
[17:15] <fergusnoble> Randomskk: what do you mean about the radio mess?
[17:15] <Randomskk> and fast etc
[17:15] <fergusnoble> yup
[17:15] <Randomskk> fergusnoble: the legal mess
[17:16] <junderwood> why not just get a separate A/D which is optimised for whatever you want to do
[17:16] <junderwood> ?
[17:17] <fergusnoble> oh well ed and I spoke to some quite high up people in the RSGB and they said it would be fine although legally its a grey area
[17:17] <Randomskk> yea, it's really grey
[17:17] <fergusnoble> i think its fine to just do it
[17:17] <Randomskk> we were trying to find some more suitable radio chips too but there's not really much
[17:17] <Randomskk> uplink by reading rssi seems a bit messy
[17:17] <fergusnoble> junderwood: mainly because good analog design is hard and keeping it all on chip can only be a good thing
[17:18] <Randomskk> downlink by shifting centre frequency works as well as anything I suppose
[17:18] <fergusnoble> Randomskk: yeah i searched for a long time but the CC was the best i could find
[17:18] <Randomskk> sadly atmel's radio+avrs are only 868 and up
[17:18] <fergusnoble> the CC can do RX in a more sane way but only at higher shifts and data rates
[17:19] <fergusnoble> but there might be something that could be done with that
[17:19] <junderwood> fergusnoble, Ah. Misunderstood you. Digital interface to the rate gyro with no external analog is definitely good.
[17:19] <Randomskk> fergusnoble: yea
[17:19] <Randomskk> do we use the same protocl for uplink (rtty 50baud)?
[17:20] <Randomskk> was also thinking of swapping out the venus for the fsa03
[17:20] <fergusnoble> ie. maybe you could set it internally to say 600baud and then transmit at 50 baud and then treak chunks of 12bits as one
[17:20] <Randomskk> might be worth playing with
[17:20] <Randomskk> take an average of the 12 readings at any rate
[17:21] <fergusnoble> obv there is the problem of start and stop bits but there might be something you could do
[17:21] <fergusnoble> Randomskk: yeah am ditching the venus in r2.1
[17:21] <Randomskk> what're you going fo?
[17:21] <Randomskk> for*
[17:21] <fergusnoble> sounds like the goals are quite similar, why not collaborate on it?
[17:21] <fergusnoble> some ublox5
[17:22] <Randomskk> as in undecided or some particular one?
[17:22] <Randomskk> http://www.falcom.de/products/gps-modules/fsa03/
[17:22] <Randomskk> probably not suited for b2 though due to onboard antenna
[17:22] <fergusnoble> not decided
[17:23] <fergusnoble> maybe the chip that the fsa03 uses if I am feeling like a challenge :)
[17:23] <Randomskk> hehe
[17:23] <Randomskk> did you see the tracker we duct taped onto scotty's payload?
[17:24] <fergusnoble> no, what was it in the end?
[17:25] <Randomskk> ems406a gps + ntx2 tx + arduino, http://negativeacknowledge.com/2010/03/ferret-high-altitude-balloon-tracker/ http://www.hexoc.com/wb/pages/ferret.php http://hackaday.com/2010/03/17/arduino-balloon-tracking/
[17:25] <Randomskk> it mostly worked
[17:25] <Randomskk> his payload was all pretty and shiny and all that
[17:25] <Randomskk> we covered it in duct tape and our black box with the straw antenna
[17:26] <Randomskk> but worked nicely, people were getting S9+ on handhelds at times
[17:26] <Randomskk> code error meant the gps position it sent was wrong but correctable
[17:26] <Randomskk> also it lost lock as it crossed the meridian for no apparent reason and didn't regain it for a while
[17:28] <sbasuita> which fool over at fldigi decided to use pure cxx to design their interface
[17:29] Action: Randomskk admittedly isn't a fan of gui designers
[17:29] <Randomskk> but on the other hand for something like fldigi
[17:29] <Randomskk> doing all that in code would be annoying as heck
[17:29] <sbasuita> Randomskk, yeah its over 5,000 lines
[17:29] <Randomskk> thing is it then requires no external tools
[17:29] <Randomskk> just a text editor
[17:30] <sbasuita> Randomskk, yeah but its not hard to do something like `sudo aptitude install fluid'
[17:30] <Randomskk> lol yea especially at 5k lines, jeez
[17:30] <sbasuita> Randomskk, i told jcoxon i would work on the special --hab gui addon
[17:30] <sbasuita> Randomskk, might go back on that now after examining this
[17:31] <sbasuita> i thought i'd warm up by fixing the gap in the menus when you run src/fldigi without any args
[17:31] <Randomskk> :P
[17:31] <Randomskk> can't fluid import it somehow?
[17:31] <sbasuita> but its just so hard to get a handle on the code
[17:33] <sbasuita> Randomskk, don't think it can import
[17:35] <fergusnoble> Randomskk: congrats on getting on hackaday :)
[17:35] <fergusnoble> nice writeups too
[17:35] <fergusnoble> sbasuita: i thought it used wx?
[17:36] <fergusnoble> not FLTK
[17:36] <fergusnoble> but sure there is always glade etc
[17:36] <sbasuita> fergusnoble, fldigi uses fltk for its gui
[17:36] <sbasuita> (hence the name) :P
[17:37] <fergusnoble> oh i seee :)
[17:37] <fergusnoble> that was dumb
[17:37] <Randomskk> fergusnoble: it used an arduino, getting on hackaday was basically a given
[17:37] <fergusnoble> hehe yeah
[17:38] <Randomskk> still fun of course :P
[17:38] <fergusnoble> if only it twittered the gps positions
[17:38] <Randomskk> I know right
[17:38] <Randomskk> I wonder how hard that would be to implement
[17:38] <Randomskk> probably not too bad
[17:38] <fergusnoble> not very
[17:38] <Randomskk> quite easy really
[17:38] <fergusnoble> they have an api which isnt too hard to use iirc
[17:38] <Randomskk> fldigi is already curling to the tracker
[17:39] <Randomskk> just add in another curl request and it'l hit twitter
[17:39] <Randomskk> it's very easy to use
[17:39] <Randomskk> I've abused it for so many things
[17:39] <fergusnoble> or put it on the tracker side
[17:39] <Randomskk> most notably "IRC over twitter"
[17:39] <Randomskk> everyone someone said got tweeted
[17:39] <Randomskk> and everything tweeted was said in irc
[17:39] <fergusnoble> hehe
[17:39] <Randomskk> it was like 10pm and someone suggested it offhand as a bad idea and/or joke
[17:39] <Randomskk> fifteeen minutes later it was running :P
[17:39] <fergusnoble> i was thinking of doing a radio -> twitter bridge
[17:40] <Randomskk> through dl-fldigi or elsewise?
[17:40] <fergusnoble> prolly fldigi
[17:40] <Randomskk> you could then twitter->radio via hamlib
[17:40] <fergusnoble> not specifically for balloons
[17:40] <Randomskk> hook the autorotator into it
[17:40] <fergusnoble> yeah
[17:40] <Randomskk> "I'm now looking at 130 deg az 30 deg el, GPS whatever!"
[17:41] <Randomskk> "@trackatron plese go to 140 deg az 35 deg el"
[17:41] <fergusnoble> on a more serious note we really should link or announcements page to our twitter
[17:41] <Randomskk> by which you mean 'make a new website'
[17:41] <fergusnoble> and then start using twitter for announcments
[17:41] <fergusnoble> na, not necissarily
[17:42] <Randomskk> well as an intermediate putting the twitter feed onto the website would be a Good Idea
[17:42] <fergusnoble> she's not pretty but she gets the job done
[17:42] <Randomskk> and then using it
[17:42] <fergusnoble> yeah
[17:42] <fergusnoble> at least just for the notam page
[17:42] <Randomskk> but it'd be nice to get the website a bit prettier and easier to use and more function and perhaps integrate the predictor and calculator into the general website style etc
[17:42] <fergusnoble> was have a bunch of followers now too but i dont think we have ever made a single tweet
[17:43] <fergusnoble> yeah
[17:43] <fergusnoble> agreed
[17:43] <fergusnoble> some kind of template
[17:43] <Randomskk> is /predict currently using the new predictor code or old?
[17:43] <fergusnoble> the old code
[17:43] <Randomskk> predictor still needs the new website with things like user accounts and stored predictions etc
[17:43] <fergusnoble> im not really sure whats going on there though
[17:44] <fergusnoble> i know rich is working on some exciting new stuff
[17:44] <fergusnoble> which so far looks really cool
[17:44] <Randomskk> I'd like to see that integrated with the new tracker website which will also have user accounts, HAB groups and payload tracks etc
[17:44] <Randomskk> and I'd like to see /that/ integrated with the DL server
[17:44] <fergusnoble> yeah
[17:44] <Randomskk> presumably all on spacenear.us or ukhas.org
[17:45] <fergusnoble> I have released the new pred code so someone could integrate it into the tracker for a while now but nobody has :(
[17:45] <fergusnoble> yeah
[17:45] <fergusnoble> would be good to get the tracker into version control so serveral people could work on it
[17:45] <fergusnoble> i think they way i set it up for the predictor could work well
[17:45] <Randomskk> natrium42 plans to redo it in python and git
[17:45] <fergusnoble> cool
[17:46] <Randomskk> not sure what's going on with the DL server end but it seems natural to combine the two
[17:46] <fergusnoble> yup
[17:46] <Randomskk> also then people can have their own tracker websites if they want
[17:46] <Randomskk> new dl-fldigi will have a server URL field
[17:46] <fergusnoble> yup, sounds good
[17:47] <Randomskk> but the idea with the new tracker is to support having 'groups' e.g. cusf, and members who can be part of groups, payloads which belong to groups, then see past payload tracks, etc
[17:47] <fergusnoble> sounds awesome
[17:47] <Randomskk> members would presumably also be listeners so you can see things like listener-points
[17:47] <fergusnoble> yup
[17:47] <Randomskk> if that was set up it would make sense for that to be where dl-fldigi uploads to
[17:47] <fergusnoble> then you just tell fldigi you username and it looks up your position etc?
[17:48] <Randomskk> and also make sense to have a predictor frontend there so you can run predictions and it knows where your group launches from, payload stats etc
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[17:48] <fergusnoble> yup
[17:48] <Randomskk> and can then also save the predictions against the group for later viewing, and things like seeing the predicted flight for a planned launch
[17:48] <fergusnoble> is this being worked on atm?
[17:48] <Randomskk> not sure if natrium42 has actually started coding it
[17:48] <fergusnoble> i have some ideas about a graphing system btw that could be good to integrate
[17:48] <Randomskk> at this rate I'm tempted to lay down the basics in django or something, it woudln't take more than a day to get the data storage and inter-model relationships
[17:49] <fergusnoble> yeah
[17:49] <Randomskk> I'm also torn about using Google Charts vs some other graphing library
[17:49] <Randomskk> google charts is really nice on first appearance but you have to do a fair bit of data processing locally to use it properly
[17:49] <fergusnoble> not so much a fan of google charts
[17:49] <Randomskk> they look pretty, but you have to do a lot of processing
[17:49] <fergusnoble> i was thinking that you could use matplotlib with some cleverness
[17:49] <Randomskk> especially the interactive javascript graphs
[17:50] <fergusnoble> i.e. you can specify for a payload a csv list of names for the fields in the "extra data" bit of the ukhas format
[17:50] <Randomskk> http://code.google.com/apis/visualization/documentation/gallery/annotatedtimeline.html and http://danvk.org/dygraphs/ in particualr
[17:50] <russss> check out http://g.raphaeljs.com/
[17:50] <Randomskk> fergusnoble: rjharrison and I are working on the current way that's all defined
[17:51] <fergusnoble> python then splits these out into veriables with the corresponding name and you can then add graphs which use combinations of these variables in a python expression which is eval'd
[17:51] <Randomskk> namely right now it's a not-defined XML format that could be improved somewhat
[17:51] <fergusnoble> for exery point on the graph
[17:51] <Randomskk> if this all gets integrated, the tracker website would have payload format strings and send them to dl-fldigi, removing all the xml mess
[17:51] <fergusnoble> yeah, ok
[17:51] <Randomskk> yea, that'd be really nice
[17:51] <Randomskk> russss: that looks pretty nice too actually
[17:51] <Randomskk> though matplotlib has the advantage that we can give python expressions
[17:52] <fergusnoble> i think the new tracker website needs to have a good api
[17:52] <Randomskk> yea
[17:52] <Randomskk> I was thinking it might be an idea to really modularise the predictor from the interface
[17:52] <russss> matplotlib is good
[17:52] <Randomskk> have a /cgi-bin/predict and feed it all required inputs via GET and it returns kml or csv or such
[17:52] <Randomskk> and that's all it does
[17:52] <Randomskk> then the totally separate front end can have an API, users, stored tracks, caching, etc
[17:53] <Randomskk> and just be told "this is the url for the predictor"
[17:53] <fergusnoble> yup, not a bad idea
[17:54] <fergusnoble> the code is already packaged up in quite a general purpose way so it can be reused but the user would still have to install it locally on their server
[17:54] <Randomskk> ye
[17:54] <Randomskk> plus it's all on git, so it can be kept up to date happily etc
[17:54] <Randomskk> new dl-fldigi work is all on git and github too
[17:54] <fergusnoble> yeah
[17:55] <fergusnoble> the new tracker is started then?
[17:55] <Randomskk> http://code.google.com/apis/visualization/documentation/gallery/gauge.html would be fun
[17:55] <Randomskk> I don't think natrium42 has actually started coding it, last I heard he was still debating on frameworks
[17:55] <fergusnoble> ok
[17:55] <Randomskk> namely pylons vs others I think, though I find myself liking django a lot now
[17:55] <fergusnoble> yup that would be fun
[17:56] <fergusnoble> pylons looks good
[17:56] <Randomskk> it does
[17:57] <Randomskk> though I'm not sure if I like sqlalchemy yet
[17:57] <Randomskk> I think django's ORM is nicer
[17:57] <fergusnoble> django sounds like it has one of the best communities though but perhaps more rigid?
[17:57] <fergusnoble> ok
[17:57] <Randomskk> django does have a big community and good docs
[17:57] <Randomskk> there's definitely less choice by design with django
[17:57] <Randomskk> you use their templating engine, their ORM, their URL resolver
[17:58] <Randomskk> but their templating engine, ORM and URL resolver are all good
[17:58] <Randomskk> also the builtin admin interface is excellent and very very easy
[17:58] <fergusnoble> ok
[17:58] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/fund_admin.png
[17:59] <Randomskk> all of that is provided for you when you tell django you have a Fund object that has a name, URL, and many FundPrice objects, and your FundPrice objects have a date and a price and are owned by a fund
[17:59] <Randomskk> makes doing all the backend admin very easy
[17:59] <fergusnoble> awesome
[18:00] <fergusnoble> ok, bbiab
[18:00] <Randomskk> seeya
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[18:40] <rjharrison> Evening all
[18:41] <rjharrison> Weather with a difference http://www.itv.com/yorkshire/weather/?intcmp=NAV_CALENDAR0_WEATHER2
[18:42] <rjharrison> I'll find the rest of the broradcast when it's published :)
[18:42] <rjharrison> You will have to wait for the advert I'm afraid
[18:42] <rjharrison> And it's 115,000 ft not 90,000
[18:43] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, How would I go about testing my latest commit to dl_fldigi?
[18:43] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, I can find neither a box to enter a callsign nor a test wav
[18:43] <AJ4XE> AJ4XE|Away
[18:43] Nick change: AJ4XE -> AJ4XE|Away
[18:43] Action: N900evil sighs at flash player 10 requirements.
[18:44] <Randomskk> rjharrison: haha nice
[18:44] <rjharrison> The rest of the broadcast will be published later
[18:45] <rjharrison> There may well be a full page spread on page 4 of The Times tomorrow too
[18:45] <rjharrison> DanielRichman not too sure
[18:45] <rjharrison> Do you have a payload or shall I send you a wav with some data in it
[18:45] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, wav with data would be easiest
[18:45] <DanielRichman> please
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[18:48] <rjharrison> one sec supper
[19:16] <earthshine> Robert when were those images taken ?
[19:17] <earthshine> oh he's eating
[19:19] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/view.php see the bottom (look for testing_character_escapes)
[19:33] <rjharrison> in 2008
[19:33] <rjharrison> DanielRichman, nice code btw I had a look at it this morning
[19:33] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, I've just committed a final tweak
[19:33] <DanielRichman> it's pretty much done
[19:34] <rjharrison> i'll pull you git
[19:34] <rjharrison> your
[19:35] <rjharrison> DanielRichman whats your git called
[19:36] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, git://github.com/danielrichman/dl-fldigi.git
[19:37] <rjharrison> compiling
[19:37] <rjharrison> do you want me to do a quick test as i have a runing payload here
[19:38] <DanielRichman> sure :). But beware, src/logger/rx_extract.c doesn't work
[19:38] <DanielRichman> you will need to comment out the line that checks if there is the right number of fields, since it's hardcoded at 10
[19:38] <rjharrison> weird
[19:38] <rjharrison> did you do that for testing
[19:38] <DanielRichman> yes
[19:38] <DanielRichman> line 180
[19:39] <DanielRichman> if ((rx_buff.length() < total_string_length) and (number_commas == min_number_fields - 1)) {
[19:39] <DanielRichman> do this:
[19:39] <DanielRichman> if ((rx_buff.length() < total_string_length)) { // and (number_commas == min_number_fields - 1)) {
[19:39] <rjharrison> On the whole it might be best to let the server do the filed checks
[19:39] <DanielRichman> yes
[19:39] <DanielRichman> definitely
[19:39] <rjharrison> Only that partial data is sometimes usefull
[19:39] <DanielRichman> exactly. then when you find the time to code super 1337 you can have it reconstruct whole strings from several part-strings
[19:40] <DanielRichman> **1337 algorithms
[19:40] <rjharrison> hehe
[19:40] <rjharrison> I'll let you have an account on the server for that one
[19:40] <rjharrison> Personally I think my eyes are better at looking over the data than my algorythmdd
[19:44] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, whatever you do, make sure jcoxon merges my changes before ssb's. It's his turn to resolve the conflicts between our branches
[19:45] <rjharrison> lol
[19:45] <rjharrison> ok
[19:45] <rjharrison> The coding is nice and clean DanielRichman
[19:45] <rjharrison> Credit to you
[19:46] <DanielRichman> bit verbose in places but should be OK
[19:46] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, also note the DL_FLDIGI_DEBUG #define at the top of dl_fldigi.cxx
[19:46] Nick change: AJ4XE|Away -> AJ4XE
[19:46] <DanielRichman> that just tells stderr about every string it posts, before escaping, after, if it succeeds, etc.
[19:46] <rjharrison> I saw that
[19:47] <rjharrison> I'm a big fan of DEBUG
[19:47] <DanielRichman> not necessary for final version, I don't think
[19:47] <Randomskk> well the whole point of using #ifdef is that it's not in the source code
[19:47] <Randomskk> so you can leave it in without harm
[19:47] <DanielRichman> yup
[19:48] <sbasuita> well it can make the code a bit hard to read
[19:48] <Randomskk> yea
[19:48] <DanielRichman> it could be worse
[19:48] <Randomskk> if there's an awful lot you can probably drop some
[19:51] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, btw you should really be doing all these commits in a feature branch rather than your master
[19:52] <Randomskk> and then you can even rebase the feature branch from jcoxon's master just before integration so all your commits apply as a fast forward
[19:52] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, yeah, true. It's not too bad though because I'm not working on more than one feature at once
[19:52] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, the problem was that sbasuita and I changed one file simultaneously (despite me asking him not to :X)
[19:52] <Randomskk> eh, that shoudln't be a big deal
[19:52] <DanielRichman> **in a way that git couldn't handle
[19:52] <Randomskk> ah
[19:52] <Randomskk> okay
[19:53] <Randomskk> makes a bit of a difference
[19:53] Nick change: N900evil -> SpeedEvil
[19:54] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, you can't blame me for it.... i had already pushed the stuff to github when you asked me anyway so if you want to point fingers it was your responsibility
[19:54] <DanielRichman> whatever
[19:54] <Randomskk> anyway it's merged now
[19:55] <DanielRichman> In other news: my yagi w0rkz
[19:56] <Randomskk> hurrah!
[19:56] <Randomskk> swr?
[19:56] <rjharrison> Humm where do we set the offline online stuff
[19:57] <rjharrison> at the momment it thinks it's offline
[19:57] <sbasuita> rjharrison, it is set in progdefaults.dl_online
[19:57] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, roughly 1.5 at the target 434.075; but it was going to about 1.1:1 at 426-8 ish
[19:57] <rjharrison> Do I need to hardcode that
[19:57] <rjharrison> sbasuita?
[19:57] <Randomskk> still 1.5 is okay
[19:57] <sbasuita> rjharrison, hardcode?
[19:57] <DanielRichman> there is a (I think it's buggy) checkbox under the dl_fldigi menu
[19:57] <Randomskk> sounds good
[19:57] <DanielRichman> :)
[19:57] <rjharrison> Yep I saw that makes no diff
[19:58] <rjharrison> Let me flick the code :)
[19:58] <DanielRichman> We triggered the bracknell repeater from about 1m off the ground, practically facing some metal railings, in the center of reading, on the 817's FM 2.5 Watts
[19:58] <sbasuita> yeah i'm just about to debug the checkbox now
[20:01] <sbasuita> can't reproduce it
[20:01] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/view.php
[20:01] <rjharrison> Working like a dream
[20:01] <rjharrison> DanielRichman nice one
[20:02] <DanielRichman> :)
[20:02] <rjharrison> the online offline crap doesn't work though :-P
[20:02] <rjharrison> :)
[20:02] <rjharrison> Lots of good debut too
[20:02] <rjharrison> debug
[20:03] <rjharrison> Right the next thing to build into the build procedure is an automated release counter
[20:03] <rjharrison> any ideas
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[20:04] <DanielRichman> back in the day... there'd be a file in the root of the project named VERSION
[20:04] <DanielRichman> then one would gcc -DVERSION=`cat VERSION`
[20:04] <DanielRichman> or its makefile-coded-equivalent
[20:05] <rjharrison> Some how we need to know how to build a release so that the version number is incemented
[20:05] <rjharrison> incremented
[20:05] preetum (~apollo299@c-67-160-116-121.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:05] <Randomskk> git tags?
[20:05] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I'm gonna have a go at reproducing it
[20:05] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, ok
[20:06] <rjharrison> Randomskk I'm going to write up that xml file format now
[20:07] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, see if this fixes it http://github.com/ssb/dl-fldigi/commit/03e2a3dfb15d368a1dcb62c9d16882d0e477314a
[20:07] <rjharrison> BTW there should be an interesting article on HAB in The Times tomorrow on page 4
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[20:07] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, it behaves really weirdly
[20:07] <rjharrison> So long as the budget doesn't push it out
[20:08] <sbasuita> rjharrison, wow, page 4 is really high
[20:08] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, ok I can't reproduce the bug but I've found out what the problem is
[20:09] <rjharrison> DanielRichman so tell me the thread is literally called just before the curl post?
[20:09] Nick change: N900evil_ -> SpeedEvil
[20:09] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, yeah, we initialise all the curl stuff, prepare the request, SETOPT everything, then create a thread to simply call _perform where it won't block anything
[20:09] <rjharrison> Cool
[20:09] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, it seems that dl_online defaults to 1 when the program starts
[20:09] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, but the checkbox is not ticked
[20:10] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i'm sure its not 1
[20:10] <rjharrison> and the rest of the curl setup just stays inplace
[20:10] <rjharrison> do you have to clean up afterwards?
[20:10] <rjharrison> or do a join on the thread and clean up?
[20:10] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, where is fldigi's config file?
[20:11] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, src/include/configuration.h
[20:11] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, or the one on disk?
[20:11] <DanielRichman> yes
[20:11] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, joining the thread would cause it to block, no, we curl_easy_init for each post
[20:11] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, its somewhere in ~/.fldigi
[20:11] <DanielRichman> then the thread that _performs it will free it
[20:11] <DanielRichman> and the char [] we allocate too
[20:12] <rjharrison> ahh the clenup; free(t->post_data); free (t);
[20:13] <rjharrison> smart clean and tidy nice ...
[20:13] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, the original bug is reproducing just fine
[20:13] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, start with a clean ~/.fldigi
[20:13] <rjharrison> I agree cleaner than forking about
[20:13] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i did
[20:14] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i rm'd .fldigi, started up fldigi, set the checkbox, closed, started, and dl_online was still zero and nothing was posted
[20:14] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, http://gist.github.com/342730
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[20:14] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, I started fldigi, dl_online = 0, checked it, dl_online = 1, closed, chose to save config, started again, dl_online = 1 but checkbox not ticked
[20:14] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, clicked it and dl_online = 0, checkbox unticked
[20:15] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, it never offers to save my config
[20:15] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, ...
[20:15] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, move ~/.fldigi
[20:15] <DanielRichman> it should come up with a wizard when you first start
[20:15] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, yes ofc
[20:15] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, it does then
[20:15] <DanielRichman> that signals that it's cleared correctly
[20:15] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, but not when you change the checkbox
[20:15] <DanielRichman> when you close it it should then offer to save config
[20:16] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, it doesn't
[20:16] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, changing the checkbox doesn't trigger a save config dialogue
[20:17] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, btw did you try that patch?
[20:17] rjharrison (~rharrison@62.49.185.11) joined #highaltitude.
[20:19] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, no, but when you close it will trigger a save
[20:19] <DanielRichman> close the whole appp
[20:19] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, :)
[20:19] Laurenceb (~laurence@host86-136-234-181.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:21] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i still can't reproduce this
[20:22] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, maybe it has something to do with your threads?
[20:22] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, i'll check out your branch and try
[20:22] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, have you pushed your debugging stuff?
[20:22] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, also see if http://github.com/ssb/dl-fldigi/commit/03e2a3dfb15d368a1dcb62c9d16882d0e477314a fixes the bug
[20:22] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, yes
[20:22] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, wait no i haven't pusshed the debug code
[20:23] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, i just used that patch you posted though
[20:23] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, hmm ok but with or without the above hacky commit ?
[20:23] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, without
[20:24] <DanielRichman> and you still cant reproduce !?
[20:24] <Randomskk> d'aww you didn't say "sbasuita, " first
[20:24] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, no
[20:24] <Randomskk> it was lining up so well
[20:24] <DanielRichman> bad habits there
[20:24] <sbasuita> Randomskk, meh i use variable width fonts anyway
[20:25] <DanielRichman> same :P
[20:25] <Randomskk> sbasuita: it would surely still line up since it's exactly the same characters
[20:25] <Randomskk> but also irc and fixed width fonts just go together like, say, programming and fixed width fonts
[20:25] <DanielRichman> well
[20:26] Action: Randomskk uses Inconsolata, it's really nice
[20:26] <Randomskk> http://www.levien.com/type/myfonts/inconsolata.html
[20:26] <DanielRichman> they go together by habit... there was an article a while ago that suggested that proportional font improved programming by x% where x is positive and pulled out of the arse of a journalist
[20:26] <DanielRichman> but the point is...
[20:26] <Randomskk> I saw that on /.
[20:26] <Randomskk> but then the comments ridiculed it
[20:27] <sbasuita> meh i just use whatever default sans font comes with ubuntu
[20:27] <Randomskk> ubuntu's default fonts are okay
[20:27] <sbasuita> meh meh meh meh
[20:27] <Randomskk> but try setting inconsolata for your system fixed width
[20:27] <Randomskk> it's lovely
[20:27] <Randomskk> especially in vim, irssi
[20:27] <Randomskk> :P
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[20:32] AJ4XE (~steve@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[20:34] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, your anti-save-in-xml hack appears to have "fixed it" (though it did result in the death of many kittens.
[20:34] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, wihtout that hack I can reproduce the bug on your branch
[20:35] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, it seems to only happen the first time
[20:35] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, meh, i guess we're ok
[20:35] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, also why dead kittens?
[20:35] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, basically it only happens when the config is saved when dl_online = 1
[20:35] <Randomskk> yea I was kinda wondering
[20:35] <Randomskk> you know what causes kittens to die
[20:35] <DanielRichman> bad things in general
[20:36] <sbasuita> but the kittens love my anti-save-in-xml branch
[20:36] <sbasuita> they can't get enough of it
[20:36] <DanielRichman> ok whatever
[20:36] <sbasuita> ;P
[20:36] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, the point is that if the XML is saved with DL_ONLINE = 1
[20:36] <DanielRichman> then it loads up dl_online = 1 but does not tick the checkbox at startup
[20:36] <DanielRichman> normal operation: config is only saved on close on the first run
[20:36] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, right but its fixed now so no problem anymore right?
[20:36] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, if your anti-save-in-xml is the fix?
[20:37] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, dunno
[20:37] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, ye
[20:37] <DanielRichman> OK
[20:37] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, well you said it fixed it
[20:37] <DanielRichman> that's fine with me; if you don't want it to save then t hat's fine
[20:37] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, it did
[20:37] <sbasuita> yeah there's no reason to start dl-fldigi in online mode really
[20:37] <sbasuita> you'd want to start it, set it up with the correct payload etc, then flick the upload switch
[20:37] <DanielRichman> hmm Ok. the checkbox is a little obscure for such a feature though
[20:37] <sbasuita> jcoxon said he'd fix the server login thing to be compatible with it last night
[20:38] <DanielRichman> you'll get a lot of people that don't realise it's there and so don't upload anything
[20:38] <DanielRichman> i'd have thought it was more useful as a debug-mode rather than a feature
[20:38] <Randomskk> make it more obvious then
[20:38] <Laurenceb> weird eagle problem - I have a trace that thinks its two seperate nets
[20:38] <Randomskk> put it in big on the hab info panel
[20:38] <Laurenceb> any idea how to fix it?
[20:38] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: how does it think that?
[20:38] <Randomskk> like how does the error manifest?
[20:38] <Laurenceb> I altered the schematic
[20:39] <rjharrison> sbasuita I think starting it in online mode would be a good idea
[20:39] <Laurenceb> now I have traces that have sections in different nets
[20:39] <Laurenceb> ratsnest doesnt fix it
[20:39] <Laurenceb> and I cant use name to fix it
[20:39] <DanielRichman> hexedit
[20:39] <Laurenceb> as it thinks I'm back annotating the schematic
[20:40] <Randomskk> probably quickest to just delete that trace?
[20:40] <Randomskk> you can name copper routes but not unconnected nets in pcb mode iirc
[20:40] <Laurenceb> this sucks
[20:56] natrium42 (~natrium@akarpenk-mac.cs.uwaterloo.ca) joined #highaltitude.
[20:56] <natrium42> damage report!
[20:57] <Randomskk> hi natrium42
[20:57] <natrium42> yo, sup?
[20:57] <Randomskk> rjharrison made the local weather (and also The Times pg4 tomorrow or so)
[20:57] <Randomskk> fergusnoble likes the planes for the tracker
[20:57] <Randomskk> plans*
[20:57] <Randomskk> though I'm sure he'd like tracker planes too
[20:57] <natrium42> oh wow
[20:57] <natrium42> rjharrison, congrats :D
[20:58] <Randomskk> I managed to deploy my django app
[20:58] <Randomskk> hang on, there's a video
[20:58] <natrium42> lol, planes
[20:58] <natrium42> Randomskk, we also need walking figures :)
[20:58] <natrium42> if you track by foot
[20:58] <Randomskk> http://www.itv.com/yorkshire/weather/?intcmp=NAV_CALENDAR0_WEATHER2
[20:58] <DanielRichman> we'll have UAVs collect our payloads as they fall
[20:58] <natrium42> suuure
[20:58] <DanielRichman> if we put a visible light beacon on the payload....
[20:58] <DanielRichman> it could be done...
[20:59] <DanielRichman> / IR
[20:59] <natrium42> Randomskk, video is not found for some reason (maybe because i am at university)
[20:59] <DanielRichman> video crashed my libflashplugin
[20:59] <Randomskk> or not in the UK perhaps
[20:59] <DanielRichman> :(
[20:59] <Randomskk> unfortunate
[20:59] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: works for me here
[20:59] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, :P It's to be expected. This thing dies regularly
[21:00] <Randomskk> silly flash
[21:00] <natrium42> DanielRichman, what's the weather like?
[21:00] <Randomskk> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/ lol
[21:00] <natrium42> are the winds good?
[21:00] <Randomskk> no
[21:00] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, oh wait... no it refuses to work entirely
[21:00] <Randomskk> still no chance
[21:00] <natrium42> :(
[21:00] <DanielRichman> perhaps because I'm using the 64bit beta flash
[21:00] <natrium42> what the hell
[21:00] <Randomskk> I think I'm using 32bit flash in 64bit ubuntu and firefox
[21:00] <natrium42> just launch it and hope for the best!
[21:00] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, weather is looking good
[21:00] <Randomskk> silly winds
[21:00] <DanielRichman> ha
[21:01] <natrium42> maybe some freak tornado will pull it back to land
[21:02] <natrium42> just launch from snowdonia
[21:02] <natrium42> cambridge isn't a great location...
[21:02] jcoxon (~jcoxon@94.197.248.233.threembb.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[21:03] <natrium42> jcoxon, the man of the hour
[21:03] <natrium42> did you bring good weather?
[21:03] <jcoxon> nah
[21:03] <jcoxon> tis raining
[21:03] <natrium42> you made me a sad panda
[21:03] <Randomskk> rain here too :(
[21:04] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, I think that the pthreads code is ready to be git pulled
[21:04] <DanielRichman> rjharrison has been testing it too
[21:04] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, okay
[21:04] <natrium42> jcoxon, i say just launch and hope for a freak wind gust to take it back to land
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[21:04] <jcoxon> i don't have a payload !
[21:05] <natrium42> no, but the alien guys
[21:05] <DanielRichman> jcoxon could take the train to france, stand on a cliff and blow it back to england... and if that doesn't work, he could pick it up :P
[21:05] <Randomskk> just make it water tight and floaty
[21:06] <DanielRichman> and time the launch so that the tides will bring it in
[21:06] <DanielRichman> and add a whip on the top
[21:06] <natrium42> wiki page about jcoxon --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolus
[21:07] <DanielRichman> can has bag of winds?
[21:07] <jcoxon> natrium42, was my disguse that obvious
[21:08] <jcoxon> if you launch next friday you'll just make it
[21:08] <Randomskk> maybe
[21:08] <jcoxon> by like 250m
[21:08] <natrium42> :)
[21:08] <Randomskk> nice day out to the beach
[21:09] <jcoxon> this may sound silly but i might be worth running some tests through wyoming
[21:09] <sbasuita> o/ jcoxon
[21:09] <jcoxon> as we've been predicting flights so far out to sea for such a long time
[21:09] <jcoxon> and wunderground isn't that blowy
[21:09] <sbasuita> jcoxon, i think i'll leave the --hab gui task to somebody else, since i really need to start concentrating on revision for my gcses
[21:09] <sbasuita> been putting it off for too long
[21:10] <jcoxon> sbasuita, hehe okay, its a challenge - i'll see what i can magic up in my breaks from my own revision
[21:10] <Randomskk> lol revision
[21:10] <sbasuita> jcoxon, its not made easy by the fact that the authors have done it all in pure cxx
[21:11] <jcoxon> tis true
[21:12] <sbasuita> jcoxon, btw, we should really scrap the edits we made to confdialog.cxx, since it is meant to be generated by confdialog.fl
[21:12] <sbasuita> jcoxon, if you `sudo aptitude install fluid; fluid src/dialogs/confdialog.fl' you'll see what i mean
[21:13] <jcoxon> oh i know
[21:13] <jcoxon> i've got fluid already
[21:19] Nick change: AJ4XE -> RocketBoy
[21:19] <rjharrison> Hey steve
[21:19] <jcoxon> typical wyoming is broken
[21:19] <RocketBoy> boo
[21:21] <RocketBoy> RocketBoy is now also AJ4XE
[21:21] <natrium42> ajaxe?
[21:21] <natrium42> :)
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[21:21] <RocketBoy> almost
[21:22] <Randomskk> how'd you get AJ4XE?
[21:22] <RocketBoy> tis my US callsign
[21:22] <Randomskk> aha nice
[21:22] <Randomskk> quite unusual?
[21:23] <RocketBoy> well I think they are on the AJs at the mo
[21:23] <RocketBoy> its sequential
[21:23] <Randomskk> ah, right
[21:23] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, shouldn't fluid be a build dep and it do that conversion at build time?
[21:23] <RocketBoy> and the AJAXE is by chance
[21:24] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, so time for the fun mission then?
[21:24] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, *shrug*
[21:24] <RocketBoy> im working on it
[21:24] <jcoxon> great
[21:25] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, what is this NBEMS.files thing that keeps appearing in my ~? something to do with rx_extact?
[21:25] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, yeah its a new feature it seems with the latest fldigi
[21:25] <DanielRichman> hmm
[21:26] <jcoxon> sbasuita, is your offline code working?
[21:26] <rjharrison> RocketBoy I'm going to need a balloon soon how are stocks
[21:27] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, there's a no_save_dl_online branch that fixes it afaik; and you need to remove a test line that rjharrison added in his last commit that forces it always on (see the diff in dl-fldigi.cxx)
[21:27] <sbasuita> jcoxon, yeah what DanielRichman said
[21:28] <jcoxon> hmmm okay
[21:28] <sbasuita> jcoxon, atm it defaults to offline every time you start. The only issue is that there is no login sent to the server when you set it online
[21:29] <rjharrison> It should be online by default
[21:29] <DanielRichman> there's some disagreement as to whether it should default to online or offline at fldigi's start (it's set to not save to the config)
[21:29] <DanielRichman> but that's a feature more than a bug
[21:29] <rjharrison> Otherwise some poor sod is going to log a whole mission before putting it online
[21:29] <rjharrison> Probably me
[21:29] <RocketBoy> rjharrison: I have all the sizes form 1000 to 1500 and 3000s in stock
[21:30] <rjharrison> RocketBoy cool
[21:30] <rjharrison> you around for a quick call
[21:30] <RocketBoy> sure
[21:30] <rjharrison> not spoken to you in an age
[21:30] <sbasuita> well i guess when the future gui is made, there will be a big obvious button and a red/green light to indicate it
[21:30] <sbasuita> so it shouldn't be too much of an issue
[21:30] <rjharrison> home or mobile
[21:30] <RocketBoy> home
[21:30] <RocketBoy> i have been hiding
[21:31] <sbasuita> just keep in mind that if it is defaulted to online, then it also needs to be edited to save its state in the xml prefs so its easy to set offline for testing
[21:31] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, yeah i noticed :-)
[21:32] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, doesn't need to be saved
[21:32] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, it should be offline everytime it starts
[21:32] <Randomskk> I agree
[21:32] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, yeah that's my opinion too
[21:32] <DanielRichman> **online
[21:32] <DanielRichman> sorry :P
[21:32] <Randomskk> lol
[21:32] <Randomskk> I'd rather not have it phone home every time the program starts regardless of whether I plan to use it for HAB or not
[21:32] <DanielRichman> I think that having it remember its offline or online ness is the worst possible of all 3 features
[21:32] <Randomskk> as a general principle
[21:32] <DanielRichman> it only phones home if --hab is specified
[21:33] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, no it phones home anyway
[21:33] <DanielRichman> the online/offline options is a further feature
[21:33] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, well, in the finished version it won't
[21:33] <jcoxon> actually in the finished version it would
[21:33] <Randomskk> so basically --hab should imply --online?
[21:33] <Randomskk> I'd say default to offline and have --hab imply --online
[21:33] <DanielRichman> nah because --hab does a tonne of other modifications
[21:33] <sbasuita> --hab only makes gui changes
[21:33] <Randomskk> is not having --hab going to mean it doesn't do any tracking? should it?
[21:33] <sbasuita> all the dl-fldigi stuff is still running under the hood without it
[21:34] <jcoxon> well my plan was that --hab is an enhancement - that you could still normal window fldigi just fine
[21:34] <jcoxon> use*
[21:34] <DanielRichman> I was of the understanding that not having --hab would give you a totally unmodified fldigi
[21:34] <jcoxon> and upload data
[21:34] <jcoxon> more not using --hab would give your nearly a completely unmodified version
[21:34] <sbasuita> I think I would prefer to have a vanilla fldigi by default, and then toggle all of the DL features via a flag
[21:34] <Randomskk> DanielRichman++
[21:35] <Randomskk> I'd have --hab toggle the DL options
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[21:35] <sbasuita> gah the weather is just a joke
[21:35] <Randomskk> at the same time you might want to start tracking from not having --hab'd?
[21:35] <jcoxon> okay this is what i propose
[21:35] <Randomskk> dunno
[21:35] <jcoxon> quiet children!
[21:35] <jcoxon> so
[21:35] <Randomskk> sbasuita: I was gonna change the burst altitude to like 5km to make it look nicer for you
[21:36] <jcoxon> --hab is an enchanced version which goes online automatically unless its turned off
[21:36] <jcoxon> when you don't pass --hab you get what appears to be vanilla fldigi but with an online/offline tickbox
[21:36] <jcoxon> which is by default offline
[21:37] <DanielRichman> You should get a hab/vanilla tickbox
[21:37] <Randomskk> we can't change the gui after startup though apparently
[21:37] <Randomskk> jcoxon: sounds good to me
[21:37] <DanielRichman> and then when hab is enabled there is a further offline tickbox that allows debugging without spamming the tracker
[21:38] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I'd propose that that tickbox is enabled by default and has some big red light when offline, too
[21:38] <Randomskk> (while in hab mode)
[21:38] <DanielRichman> yes
[21:38] <DanielRichman> I love the way --hab removes the huge tx box and presents a cool slimmed fldigi
[21:38] <jcoxon> i think its key that you can use it the old way as well
[21:38] <jcoxon> with all the windows etc
[21:39] <jcoxon> as who knows we might want to do some txing
[21:39] <jcoxon> but hab is the slim mission control style setup
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[21:39] <DanielRichman> can we call it --slim then?
[21:39] <sbasuita> How about a --dl flag to toggle all DL activity, and a separate --hab flag for the gui
[21:39] <DanielRichman> and have a --hab to enable or disable all of our modifications
[21:39] <jcoxon> i think you are all over thinking this
[21:39] <Randomskk> we don't want to overcomplicate it
[21:40] <jcoxon> there are 3 situations: 1) normal radio stuff, 2) hab tracking 3) hab tracking testing
[21:40] <Randomskk> also we do use fldigi for uplink
[21:40] <jcoxon> so lets just have normal fldigi with dl in the background with online/offline tick box
[21:41] <sbasuita> ok fair enough, i would go with that
[21:41] <jcoxon> and then --hab slimed down super hab mission control mode
[21:41] <jcoxon> normal fldigi is offline by default, --hab is online by default
[21:42] <jcoxon> i don't think we should touch the normal fldigi gui
[21:42] <jcoxon> just like it was in version 1
[21:42] <jcoxon> apart from of course the DL Conf tab in the options
[21:42] <Randomskk> sounds good
[21:42] <DanielRichman> Ok, I agree
[21:42] <jcoxon> and have all the cool modifications on --hab
[21:42] <jcoxon> i personally plan to just use --hab
[21:42] <DanielRichman> that way a user who's read the wiki can --hab and they're online and rolling
[21:43] <jcoxon> exactly
[21:43] <jcoxon> ooooo we are going to hijack the first run wizard :-p
[21:43] <DanielRichman> Do it.
[21:43] <jcoxon> force people to fill in the details correctly etc
[21:43] <Randomskk> can we support better position info
[21:43] <DanielRichman> and choose the payload that they are tracking?
[21:43] <Randomskk> like inputting lat/lon as deg min sec as well as decimal deg
[21:44] <jcoxon> and i appreciate that running cmd line args is a little challenging for some so we should distribute 2 icons with links to normal fldigi and --hab fldiig
[21:44] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, well i thought only run it once
[21:44] <Randomskk> ideally integrate with the tracker website so you can just login and it gets your position (selected from gmaps)
[21:44] <Randomskk> the payload selection can be shown nice and big on the hab pane
[21:44] <DanielRichman> yes
[21:44] <jcoxon> but i propose on --hab to have the drop down box on the main gui in the new hab pane
[21:44] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:44] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, also perhaps later on I can integrate the threaded curl code with the status bar
[21:45] <jcoxon> well i was hoping to get some server feedback
[21:45] <DanielRichman> ie: Uploading (0/1)..., Extracting... and Uploaded !
[21:45] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:45] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, yeah currently the response from the PHP goes to stdout
[21:45] <DanielRichman> but we can have CURL give it back to us
[21:45] <jcoxon> great
[21:46] <jcoxon> okay i've merged in your curl code
[21:46] <rjharrison> DanielRichman that would be most excellent
[21:46] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, great
[21:46] Action: DanielRichman adds that to his todos
[21:48] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, I think that the expected number of fields restraint (ie. it doesn't upload if the number of fields is "wrong") should be relaxed and instead be handled by the server
[21:48] <DanielRichman> that way if we later create different algorithms to piece the data together/a misconfigured client won't have such an impact
[21:48] <Randomskk> ideally we want to send as much as possible to the server
[21:48] <DanielRichman> exactly
[21:48] <Randomskk> there's an argument for just sending all decoded text
[21:49] <DanielRichman> we could make the server's job easier by somehow synchronising the clients so it knows which sentences are meant to be identical
[21:50] <DanielRichman> somehow peel open the ntp code?
[21:50] <jcoxon> yes
[21:50] <jcoxon> but i was also thinking perhaps we could parse the data locally as well
[21:50] <jcoxon> as by grabing the payload xml we now know how to decode the data
[21:50] <DanielRichman> upload everything, parse what we can, then if the server has a better copy we get that too?
[21:50] <sbasuita> maybe have the server publish a feed of 'good' strings
[21:50] <sbasuita> and then we can just grab that and show it
[21:50] <jcoxon> as it would allow us to use this in an offline mode
[21:50] <jcoxon> say in the field
[21:51] <DanielRichman> perhaps we could have a --fifo 'name' option where it sends all "good" strings via a pipe to some other program
[21:51] <jcoxon> grab the payload xml before leaving and then let it decode while out of range
[21:53] <rjharrison> sbasuita the server already does that :)
[21:54] <rjharrison> What will it decode to? All it really needs to do is write the data to a log having tested the checksum
[21:54] <rjharrison> Unless you are planing on having an offline tracker too :)
[21:54] <DanielRichman> :O
[21:54] <Randomskk> do we want it to check the checksum?
[21:55] <rjharrison> Well if you want an offline version you may
[21:55] <Randomskk> vs just storing all decoded text
[21:55] <DanielRichman> we want it to aggregate the data from all clients, match up the corresponding bits (based on clock sync) and then take the 'average' if you will
[21:55] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: unless any one does validate checksum
[21:55] <rjharrison> so online then
[21:56] <DanielRichman> we should push as much data to the server as we can every ~ 10sec from all clients
[21:56] <DanielRichman> the server then waits 10 seconds; keeping it all in raw form
[21:56] <DanielRichman> then it will have 5 copies of the data to work with
[21:56] <DanielRichman> and can combine, extract sentences, and publish
[21:56] <rjharrison> Humm
[21:56] <rjharrison> not so sure about that
[21:56] <Randomskk> interesting idea
[21:57] <Randomskk> with synced clocks and relatively low latency that could work
[21:57] <rjharrison> I tag the time of all inbound packets
[21:57] <Randomskk> potentially be quite advantageous
[21:57] <jcoxon> that assumes lots of data
[21:57] <DanielRichman> so I propose that the php/whatever side of the upload simply sticks the data in the database
[21:57] <jcoxon> what about HF flights
[21:57] <DanielRichman> then a cron-job style deal runs every ~15s to try and combine/extract
[21:57] <DanielRichman> perhaps that could be enabled on a per flight basis
[21:57] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: persistent program would be better
[21:57] <DanielRichman> or when there is 2 or more trackers
[21:57] <jcoxon> i think the server does the job very well
[21:58] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, I agree. But I'm catering for the possibility of a PHP only shared host, or google app engine. Task queues might be able to do it on the latter
[21:58] <rjharrison> To be fair i'm not botherd about missing one packet in 50
[21:58] <Randomskk> true
[21:58] <DanielRichman> We probably ought to work out how much data the plan would realistically be able to recover
[21:58] <DanielRichman> just by observing a flight if we have 99% of strings it's not worth it
[21:59] <DanielRichman> Still, in the sense of "forwards compatibility" we ought to push all data to the server; incase we later find a use for it; it would be a pain to force everyone to update their client
[21:59] <rjharrison> It doesn't matter really. Experince to date says you either get lots of good data or none at all due to failure
[22:00] <rjharrison> Logging all imcomming data to the server is usefull esp for HF flights where tx may be once an hour as corruption is best left to the sophisticated human brain
[22:00] <Randomskk> true
[22:00] <Randomskk> well
[22:00] <Randomskk> I think algorithmic systems are worth applying
[22:00] <Randomskk> human brain sees what it wants to see
[22:00] <Randomskk> especially for things like numerical data
[22:00] <rjharrison> Now if we are going to keep the audio and reprocess that then cool but not yet
[22:01] <DanielRichman> we can use the method to at least produce a "reliability" rating
[22:01] <Randomskk> I agree with your first point though
[22:01] <Randomskk> we have loads of good listeners
[22:01] <Randomskk> by and large we get high quality signals
[22:01] <sbasuita> The vast majority of payloads stay within UK shores, so we do get good signals.
[22:01] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, personally I'd have the demodulator, rather than making the decision between a 0 and a 1 for each bit, output a decimal/fraction showing how close it was to being a bit flip :P
[22:01] <DanielRichman> then upload that
[22:01] <rjharrison> Basically the effort to correct the data is not worth while at the moment
[22:02] <DanielRichman> we could up the baud
[22:02] <rjharrison> Do we really need more data?
[22:02] <Randomskk> we could, but we don't need to - there's not much more to transmit
[22:02] <DanielRichman> we always need more data :P
[22:02] <DanielRichman> though no, not really, you're right :P
[22:02] <Randomskk> have to find a balance between not doing anything new because "it already works" and not spending time working on things that aren't as badly needed as other htings, though
[22:03] <rjharrison> What i would like to do is have a uload facility for people who store the data on an SD card as it would be nice to have a perfect upload if the SD card comes back
[22:03] <rjharrison> Like an xml generator :)
[22:03] <Randomskk> true
[22:04] <Randomskk> that would be nice
[22:04] <Randomskk> dunno how many payloads do that
[22:04] <rjharrison> HF is largely untested
[22:04] <Randomskk> though also by and large the balloons we recover are the ones where the radio worked
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[22:05] <rjharrison> jcoxon, can you work on the PBH team to se if there are interested in using our system or better still get our dl to work on their data
[22:05] <rjharrison> That would be a great test for A-Halo
[22:06] <rjharrison> Randomskk the data is actually worth having for later camparative analysis between launches
[22:06] <jcoxon> rjharrison, i can try though i don't think they'll respond
[22:06] <rjharrison> compatrative
[22:06] <jcoxon> they seem to want to do their own thing
[22:06] <jcoxon> but we'll get dl-fldigi to work what ever happens
[22:06] <DanielRichman> we store the data on a sd card
[22:06] <rjharrison> jcoxon if we could get some test data wav though that would be cool
[22:07] <rjharrison> Right I'm getting back to specing the xml file for Randomskk to write a javascript generator
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[22:12] <earthshine> evening
[22:14] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p548851E1.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> hi SpeedEvil
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[22:16] <SpeedEvil> hik
[22:17] <rjharrison> Randomskk http://www.robertharrison.org/icarus/wordpress/?page_id=194
[22:17] <rjharrison> Is this enough to go on?
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> the CU Predictor now gives a "Server Busy" for more than 24 hours now
[22:18] <Randomskk> rjharrison: yea I imagine so
[22:18] <Randomskk> why would we not have timing continuous
[22:18] <Randomskk> I mean, does that make any difference
[22:18] <rjharrison> to save power
[22:18] <Randomskk> yea, but why does that affect anything
[22:18] <Randomskk> on the receiver side
[22:18] <rjharrison> Oh yep when to expect data
[22:19] <rjharrison> For the listener
[22:19] <rjharrison> ir human
[22:19] <rjharrison> ie
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[22:19] <Randomskk> I suppose so
[22:19] <Randomskk> okay
[22:19] <rjharrison> if it's every hour you might like to know
[22:19] <rjharrison> or every six hours
[22:19] <rjharrison> This way we can inform the listeners
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> when does the Predictor work again?
[22:19] <Randomskk> yup
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[22:20] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: oh sorry, was about to check that for you
[22:20] <Randomskk> got distracted
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> no problem
[22:20] <rjharrison> Randomskk there is no rx reason really
[22:20] <rjharrison> jcoxon note the new level in the xml code
[22:21] <Randomskk> rjharrison: is this the format currently used or are we planning to swap to this?
[22:21] <rjharrison> it's 99% whats in use
[22:21] <Randomskk> yea
[22:21] <Randomskk> okay
[22:21] <rjharrison> Except stop_bit and object_type and object_name
[22:22] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: okay I deleted the lock file
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> thanks!
[22:22] <Randomskk> wait a sec though
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I see it still says busy
[22:22] <Randomskk> yea
[22:22] Action: Randomskk is running it
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> want to know what I wanted to try?
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:23] <Randomskk> it has all old gribs now
[22:23] <Randomskk> okay gribs updated
[22:23] <Randomskk> it should work now
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> it loads :)
[22:23] <rjharrison> what was the argument for keeping the default to offline
[22:23] <Randomskk> rjharrison: it defaults to offline if you haven't also specified --hab
[22:23] <Randomskk> if you --hab it loads the minimal interface and onlines
[22:23] <rjharrison> can we at least have command line option --online :)
[22:24] <Randomskk> if you don't --hab it loads the normal fldigi interface and set to offline
[22:25] <rjharrison> I'll settle for that if we also get a bit warning message
[22:25] <rjharrison> big
[22:25] <Randomskk> yea
[22:25] <Randomskk> well you would typically load it with --hab
[22:25] <Randomskk> like that'd be on the windows shortcut
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> YAY it works
[22:25] <Randomskk> we really need to get the sexy new predictor code running online
[22:25] <rjharrison> I can sort of see that if it give the info we need :)
[22:26] <rjharrison> Randomskk what is sexy about it?
[22:26] <Randomskk> it's not shit
[22:26] <rjharrison> lol
[22:26] <Randomskk> have you looked at the current code
[22:26] <Randomskk> don't
[22:26] <rjharrison> no
[22:26] <Randomskk> also it's sexy
[22:26] <rjharrison> I don't think we can
[22:26] <Randomskk> you can look at the new code
[22:26] <rjharrison> unless it's in the svn
[22:27] <Randomskk> trust me, for the best that the old code stay forever hidden
[22:27] <rjharrison> hehe
[22:27] <Randomskk> it is, everything is in the svn
[22:27] <Randomskk> but the new code is on git
[22:27] <rjharrison> oh cool so in theory I could run my own predictor?
[22:27] <Randomskk> http://github.com/rjw57/cusf-landing-prediction
[22:27] <Randomskk> yup
[22:27] <Randomskk> we want to integrate it with the new tracker website
[22:28] <Randomskk> since that'l have your group's launch locations, payload details etc
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> I wanted to tell you what my current experiment with the predictor is
[22:28] <Randomskk> and then store results, auto run predictions for given scenarios for your group etc
[22:28] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: go for it
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> do you know "Earthwinds"?
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> that global balloon by Larry Newman
[22:28] <Randomskk> I don't
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[22:29] <rjharrison> Right I had better make the listener nice and clean in the code department
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.aerostar.com/hotair/images/HAB/Earthwinds.jpg
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> the lower balloon is filled with cold air as a rechargable ballast container
[22:29] <Randomskk> I'd like to see the listener, tracker and predictor all integrated and available in one happy package, plus ideally on git
[22:29] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: haha neat
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> and I was quite fascinated by it and I even wrote a short story while I still was in school
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> it was about the balloon "Passat Flyer" which flew from Thailand to Tanzania
[22:30] <rjharrison> Randomskk, that's entirly possible
[22:31] <Randomskk> rjharrison: is there any reason not to integrate the listener with the tracker part?
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> but what I saw now doesn't look good
[22:31] <rjharrison> One thing that i'm concerend about is that it's nice to keep historical data in a db
[22:31] <Randomskk> definitely
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> when I gave it a location in Thailand, it looked more like a flight to Sri Lanka and India
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> and Indonesia did not look better either
[22:31] <Randomskk> what I'm proposing for the tracker is that taken slightly further
[22:31] <DanielRichman> what you want. Is to have the weather model with the prediction, that is automatically refined by flight data
[22:32] <Randomskk> e.g. the aforementioned group system so you can readily view each payload's flights, that group's flight, etc
[22:32] <DanielRichman> so the prediction becomes more and more accurate as it flies
[22:32] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: eh
[22:32] <Randomskk> I guess it'd work for the way down
[22:32] <rjharrison> now if we put the dl-server in git then everyone will run their own instance and we won't have a central store of hab lauches
[22:32] <Randomskk> rjharrison: I doubt many people will run their own instances
[22:32] <rjharrison> True
[22:32] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, well you can deduce from the path it takes vs. the path you thought it would have taken what the differences in the real weather vs the weather forecast are... obv it's not as simple but hat, but mayyybe...
[22:33] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: the thing is
[22:33] <Randomskk> winds you pass through don't affect winds higher up
[22:33] <Randomskk> so you can't use the current wind speed to refine the guess of the wind speed higher
[22:33] <Randomskk> but you can use the total log of wind speeds at altitudes to repredict the descent
[22:33] <DanielRichman> is there a cause common to both winds?
[22:33] <DanielRichman> or are they totally un related
[22:33] <Randomskk> nothing feasible to compute
[22:33] <rjharrison> Also the tracker is going to get quite a bit of traffic with say a hundered people watching the tracker
[22:34] <DanielRichman> google app engine!
[22:34] <rjharrison> Ahh that is most cool
[22:34] <Randomskk> google app engine solves that, but to be honest the tracker is more than capable of doing a hundred people watching
[22:34] <DanielRichman> it is indeed
[22:34] <Randomskk> it's almost all cached data
[22:34] <Randomskk> or rather
[22:34] <Randomskk> shoudl be
[22:34] <DanielRichman> let's ddos rjh's site to find out how much it can take
[22:34] <Randomskk> lol
[22:34] <Randomskk> I think rjharrison's point is that
[22:34] <rjharrison> go for it
[22:35] <Randomskk> having the dl-server separate means that
[22:35] <Randomskk> even if the tracker site goes down
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> hey
[22:35] <Randomskk> the dl-clients keep reporting
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> do you know "Five Weeks in a Balloon"?
[22:35] <Randomskk> but I think a well written tracker site could handle fairly well
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> do you know that novel?
[22:37] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, sbasuita i've pulled in your changes and pushed them onto git hub
[22:37] <Randomskk> rjharrison: what setup is your server?
[22:37] <jcoxon> also i've made a new "HAB" frame above the rx box for --hab
[22:37] <Randomskk> namely what apache process model, what php interpreter and any kind of memory or opcode caching?
[22:38] <rjharrison> PHP 5.1.6 (cli) (built: Jan 13 2010 17:13:05)
[22:39] <Randomskk> cli interfaced via what, fcgi?
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> had a balloon launched at 18:15 GMT at Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania and travelled at 9000 m, it would have landed on the shores of Lake Victora after 24 hours
[22:39] <rjharrison> Server version: Apache/2.2.3
[22:39] <rjharrison> Server built: Nov 12 2009 18:43:47
[22:40] <jcoxon> night all
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[22:41] <rjharrison> Randomskk this is on a 100Mb/s fiber pipe into the local pop
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> It seems like you can cross africa
[22:41] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, your ram will fill before your pipe
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> but not the indian ocean
[22:42] <DanielRichman> providing we pick the right page to ddos :P
[22:42] <rjharrison> hehe
[22:42] <Randomskk> also apache
[22:42] <Randomskk> uh
[22:42] <Randomskk> mysql*
[22:42] <DanielRichman> mmm. find a page with a few JOINs on it
[22:42] <Randomskk> rjharrison: my connection at uni is 100Mb/s too :P
[22:42] <rjharrison> mysql Ver 14.12 Distrib 5.0.77,
[22:43] <DanielRichman> O/S?
[22:43] <Randomskk> rjharrison: but is php implemented as fcgi or?
[22:43] <rjharrison> Just that mines shared with 3 servers with almost no usage. Unlike 1000 sex starved students :p
[22:43] <rjharrison> Randomskk I have to conceed I have no idea
[22:44] <rjharrison> on the php
[22:44] <DanielRichman> probably not then
[22:44] <Randomskk> okay
[22:44] <Randomskk> well I can't imagine anyone will be actively trying to be malicious
[22:44] <DanielRichman> I think php displays fcgi in the version string when support is built in
[22:46] <rjharrison> basically standard rhel install of php
[22:46] <Randomskk> would have thought mod_php then
[22:46] <Randomskk> rjharrison: there aren't 1000 sex starved students sharing my ethernet :P
[22:46] <Randomskk> or should that be ;P
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[22:47] <rjharrison> Oh i meant the pipe to the cloud
[22:47] <Randomskk> rjharrison: yea, I know
[22:47] <Randomskk> I mean that
[22:48] <Randomskk> uni's connection to the cloud is very very fast (JANET fibre) but my local connection is 100mbps
[22:48] <DanielRichman> would it be 1gbps if your nic supported it or is the nearest switch 100mbps?
[22:48] <rjharrison> JANET is cool I miss those heady early days of the internet
[22:48] <Randomskk> definitely
[22:48] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: my nic supports gigabit
[22:48] <rjharrison> cool
[22:49] <Randomskk> building is cat5 and switches and routers are 100mbit
[22:49] <Randomskk> link to college is gigabit
[22:49] <Randomskk> also 100mbps is a limit for practical reasons
[22:49] <Randomskk> even as it stands I can go over my ten day usage allowance in six minutes of downloading
[22:50] <Randomskk> dropping that to 30 seconds or so would be scary
[22:50] <Randomskk> scary but awesome admittedly
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> any idea why I can't cross the Indian Ocean?
[22:50] <DanielRichman> usage allowance?
[22:50] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I know right D:
[22:50] <Randomskk> it's really complicated
[22:50] <DanielRichman> hah
[22:50] <Randomskk> uh, so basically
[22:50] <Randomskk> there are two separate systems
[22:50] <Randomskk> the first one concerns bandwidth external to the university and applies all the time
[22:50] <DanielRichman> the deep packet inspection and the other deep packet inspection station?
[22:51] <DanielRichman> along with the rsa breaking system
[22:51] <Randomskk> the previous ten days are looked at
[22:51] <Randomskk> for the sum of external bandwidth over those ten days,
[22:51] <Randomskk> I get three gigabytes free, and pay 50p per gigabyte above that, but only when total usage exceeds 6GB over those ten days
[22:52] <Randomskk> the payment is daily depending on the ten-day-moving-daily-average over 0.3GB when over 0.6GB
[22:52] <rjharrison> DanielRichman Centos5.4
[22:52] <DanielRichman> that's a bit harsh
[22:52] <Randomskk> so if the daily average over the last ten days was say 1.3GB
[22:52] <DanielRichman> 300MB a day?
[22:52] <Randomskk> I would pay 50p today
[22:52] <Randomskk> and then the next day, let's say I used as much as I did ten days ago
[22:53] <Randomskk> daily average is still 1.3GB
[22:53] <Randomskk> I pay another 50p
[22:53] <Randomskk> eventually the day where I used a lot more bandwidth than otherwise goes off the ten day list
[22:53] <Randomskk> and I stop paying
[22:53] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: best to think of it as "6GB over the last ten days"
[22:53] <Randomskk> "and anything beyond that you pay for, 50p per gigabyte"
[22:53] <DanielRichman> Fair enough, I guess
[22:53] <Randomskk> so that's one half of the system, and not that bad really though a bit annoying
[22:53] <Randomskk> the other half is much much worse
[22:53] <DanielRichman> do they provide an easy way to track it?
[22:54] <Randomskk> none at all
[22:54] <Randomskk> other colleges differ
[22:54] <Randomskk> some provide lots of ways of monitoring, some are unlimited
[22:54] <Randomskk> some are much much wrose
[22:54] <Randomskk> some have 300MB/term limits
[22:54] <Randomskk> and you pay for anything above that
[22:54] <Randomskk> but that college lacks Selwyn's second system
[22:54] <Randomskk> this one concerns all traffic leaving your local router (but not locally switched traffic)
[22:54] <DanielRichman> 300MB/term?!
[22:54] <Randomskk> same ten day deal
[22:55] <Randomskk> (the 300MB/term is really more 'pay as you go internet with a minimum payment to support 300mb')
[22:55] <DanielRichman> hmm OK
[22:55] <Randomskk> (they pay less per gb over too)
[22:55] <DanielRichman> I would hope so :P
[22:55] <Randomskk> this other system only counts traffic from 7am to 2am
[22:55] <Randomskk> so "peak time", except offpeak is 2am to 7am
[22:55] <Randomskk> with this system, the ten day daily average is considered again
[22:55] <Randomskk> and if it's above 8GB total (0.8GB/day average)
[22:55] <Randomskk> you get megathrottled
[22:56] <DanielRichman> I was wondering when that would happen :P
[22:56] <Randomskk> 30KB/s max data rate (from 10MB/s) and latency up to 4s
[22:56] <DanielRichman> ouuch
[22:56] <DanielRichman> ever happened to you?
[22:56] <Randomskk> this one time
[22:56] <Randomskk> steam
[22:56] <Randomskk> mass effect 2
[22:56] <Randomskk> it downloaded 30GB
[22:56] <DanielRichman> so you paid for not only the external 'net
[22:56] <Randomskk> in about half an hour
[22:56] <DanielRichman> but got instathrottled
[22:56] <Randomskk> nah
[22:56] <Randomskk> instathrottle would be much better
[22:57] <Randomskk> the throttling took so long to start that by the time it happened I was already fucked
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> can we talk about some ballooning issues too?
[22:57] <DanielRichman> true, then you could stop it. When does the throttling begin?
[22:57] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: this is vaguely related
[22:57] <DanielRichman> :P
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:57] <DanielRichman> we've gone further offtopic before
[22:57] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: no idea when it begins, it took a while
[22:57] <Randomskk> I guess every hour
[22:57] <Randomskk> normally you would only just go over or such
[22:57] <Randomskk> so if you used less the next day, your average drops and you're safe
[22:58] <Randomskk> for me there was no way to drop my average enough even if I didn't use the internet at all
[22:58] <Randomskk> so I had to endure ten days of 1-4s latency at 30KB/s and also pay like a pound a day :P
[22:58] <Randomskk> now I have my own router and it does bandwidth monitoring for me and will be throttling a lot faster
[22:58] <DanielRichman> :D
[22:58] <DanielRichman> drill hole in wall, steal neighbours internet...
[22:59] <Randomskk> the data rate isn't nearly so bad as the latency
[22:59] <Randomskk> interestingly the wireless is unaffected so it's possible to just have my router connect to the wireless and go through that
[22:59] <DanielRichman> does tcpip mean that it waits for its 1 second ACK for each packet?
[22:59] <Randomskk> and the AP is just outside my room
[22:59] <DanielRichman> :)
[22:59] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I didn't fully investigate. it was very, very slow
[23:00] <DanielRichman> back to the dialup days - 1
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> I had an incident with the Internet Archive
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> it took ages to load
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> and suddenly I saw that my ICQ went to "No Connection"
[23:02] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: yea. I had to go outside and stuff
[23:03] <DanielRichman> no. way.
[23:03] <Randomskk> pretty traumatic
[23:03] <Randomskk> I snapped and killed someone
[23:03] <DanielRichman> on the bright side, you had mass effect 2 to play
[23:03] <Randomskk> no that's the worst part
[23:03] <Randomskk> it got to 90%
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> I actually had my laptop crashing when it lost the WLAN signal when I still had Vista
[23:03] <DanielRichman> No.
[23:03] <DanielRichman> That's so harsh
[23:04] <Randomskk> I know right D:
[23:04] <Randomskk> I did actually go kill outside and kill someone
[23:04] <Randomskk> (assassins soc.)
[23:05] <DanielRichman> Oh I heard about that
[23:05] <DanielRichman> What's it like?
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> did you make it on Crimewatch :P?
[23:05] <Randomskk> quite fun
[23:06] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I mean
[23:06] <Randomskk> it basically consists of looking twice at anyone walking towards you or standing still or running etc as your hand drifts towards your coat pocket
[23:06] <Randomskk> combined with occasionally running down the high street in pursuit of someone while wielding a water gun and rubber band gun
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk how did people react?
[23:07] <Randomskk> this is cambridge
[23:07] <Randomskk> they took it in their stride
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:07] <DanielRichman> how did the public react?
[23:07] <Randomskk> same as when I start sitting on the lawn with the yagi and laptop and radio all set up
[23:07] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: they take it in their stride :P
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:08] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: also a bit of waiting around tends to happen
[23:08] <Randomskk> e.g. someone has left their door unlocked and you turn up and enter their room and sit inside for a few minutes
[23:08] <Randomskk> they return, you shoot them
[23:08] <Randomskk> alternatively
[23:08] <Randomskk> they don't return for hours
[23:08] <Randomskk> it gets dark and cold
[23:08] <Randomskk> dinner time comes and goes
[23:08] <Randomskk> they return, you shoot them
[23:09] <DanielRichman> :D
[23:09] <DanielRichman> you turn up and enter their room, use their ethernet port to finish your mass effect download, they return, you shoot them
[23:09] <Randomskk> :D
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[23:10] <Randomskk> basically all sorts of general fun times
[23:11] <Randomskk> one time the guy was having an afternoon nap and left his door unlocked
[23:11] <Randomskk> epitome of foolishness
[23:11] <DanielRichman> bad idea there
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> then people walked in?
[23:11] <Randomskk> well I walked in
[23:11] <Randomskk> armed
[23:11] <DanielRichman> can you set traps for them? if you can't be bothered waiting for them, just stick note behind the door saying "you just triggered the bomb ~~ name"?
[23:12] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: you used to be able to
[23:12] <Randomskk> but traps and poison have now been removed
[23:12] <Randomskk> for the best, in my opinion, as awesome as traps may seem
[23:12] <Randomskk> it gets a bit too silly
[23:12] <Randomskk> you have to wear gloves the whole time in case someone contact poisoned your doorknob
[23:12] <DanielRichman> yeah, I suppose
[23:12] <Randomskk> also far too much reliance on honour system
[23:12] <Randomskk> also the rules were stupid
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[23:13] <Randomskk> the blast radius was a function of the log of the volume of the bomb
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> people poison doorknobs?!
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[23:13] <Randomskk> they did
[23:13] <Randomskk> poison is now not allowed
[23:13] <Randomskk> though I think some forms are still okay e.g. poison lipstick
[23:14] <Randomskk> poison lipstick rarely sees application
[23:14] <DanielRichman> hmm... if you can shoot people but not traps... how about a webcam + robot arm + watergun combo guarding your room?
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> holy shit that is murder if somebody dies!
[23:14] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: gotta be you doing it
[23:14] <Randomskk> can't be remote
[23:14] <DanielRichman> aww
[23:14] <Randomskk> can be e.g. an anvil on rope with you a long way away letting go of rope
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> is that a real "game"?
[23:14] <Randomskk> by anvil I mean foam anvil, large cardboard box labelled anvil/fridge/etc
[23:15] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: by guns I mean rubber band guns and water guns, by knives I mean pens labelled knife and LARP knives, by poison I mean a bit of paper with 'poison' written on it, by bombs I mean a drinks bottle with "BOMB" and something that makes a noise strapped to it
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> oh I see
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> that is a different light of course
[23:16] <DanielRichman> <DanielRichman> we've gone further offtopic before
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[23:16] <Randomskk> haha
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:16] <DanielRichman> ((not that I'm objecting!))
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> the predictor doesn't like the Date Line it seems to me :P
[23:18] <Randomskk> possibly not, I don't know if we tested for that
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> it simply craps out :P
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> (that's my term for malfunction)
[23:20] <DanielRichman> a perfectly valid term!
[23:21] <DanielRichman> there's an implied difference between craps out and malfunctions
[23:21] <DanielRichman> personally, malfunctions sounds like it glitches, goes wrong, but carries on
[23:21] <DanielRichman> wheras "craps out"
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> that sounds more like stopping, breaking down
[23:22] <DanielRichman> or crashing headfirst into a brick wall
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:23] <DanielRichman> from a technical P.O.V, I guess it implies some sort of abort()
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> the predictor just says that it doensn't have a 0.5x0.5 grid anymore and that a coordinate is too easterly
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> and then it stops
[23:23] ProjectCirrus (~rhspm@cpc1-belf9-0-0-cust338.belf.cable.ntl.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> but when I talk about the Date Line you probably know what I'm trying :P
[23:25] <ProjectCirrus> sorry to but in but was ed moore on at all earlier?
[23:25] <DanielRichman> zeusbot, !
[23:26] <ProjectCirrus> good... he is still alive then, just need to chat with him sometime
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> hey ProjectCirrus
[23:26] <DanielRichman> if you dare you might email him. However if its a general HAB question feel free to ask here :)
[23:27] <DanielRichman> (now) :P
[23:27] <ProjectCirrus> yeah, its a specific ed question unfortunately... general irc has been great with other questions though
[23:28] <rjharrison> any one want a lauch
[23:28] <Randomskk> specific ed or specific CUSF?
[23:28] <rjharrison> laugh
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> ProjectCirrus I got a question for you :P
[23:28] <ProjectCirrus> im all ears
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> rjharrison a laugh is good :)
[23:28] <rjharrison> http://www.itv.com/yorkshire/fullprogramme/?intcmp=NAV_CALENDAR0_FULLPROG4
[23:28] <Randomskk> ProjectCirrus: CUSF related or ed related?
[23:29] <rjharrison> Check out the last 5 mins of this program
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> ProjectCirrus I'm messing around with the predictor and it craps out at the Date Line, what am I trying to simulate?
[23:29] <ProjectCirrus> is trhis a riddle lol
[23:29] <rjharrison> This my bit on the evening ITV news
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> rjharrison it discriminiate
[23:29] <rjharrison> You have to go through the adverts first
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> *discriminates
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> it only shows for British people it says
[23:30] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, my flashplugin Just Dies (tm) and I don't have time to fix it right now... what's it like?
[23:30] <rjharrison> ooh sorry
[23:30] <rjharrison> 5 mins talk on icarus
[23:30] <rjharrison> Jazzed by the media
[23:30] <Randomskk> "video could not be found"
[23:30] Action: Randomskk bookmarks
[23:30] <Randomskk> will probably work later
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> anybody having an idea where to get a British proxy?
[23:31] <rjharrison> weird
[23:31] <rjharrison> I'm off to bed
[23:31] <ProjectCirrus> lunar lander... im on the west of the date line and have no problems.... is this the new version or the old one?
[23:31] <rjharrison> chat later
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[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> this is the version that appears on the website now
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> I am in Sapporo and it only goes as far as 179.99 E
[23:33] <ProjectCirrus> just a minute
[23:37] <ProjectCirrus> ok just a thought here... but can you actually go beyond 179.99 degrees east
[23:37] <ProjectCirrus> would beyond that not be a west
[23:37] <ProjectCirrus> 360 degrees in a circle
[23:37] <DanielRichman> It should wrap around?
[23:38] <ProjectCirrus> 180 degrees east is the same as 180 degrees west is it not
[23:38] <ProjectCirrus> so it wouldn't be proper to have say 210 degrees east
[23:38] <ProjectCirrus> what does google earth call the coordinates of your location?
[23:39] <Randomskk> correct, you shoudln't ever go above 180
[23:39] <Lunar_Lander> google earth has the coordinates in the degree,minute,second form
[23:39] <ProjectCirrus> change it in the options
[23:39] <ProjectCirrus> but in any case... just stick a -ve in?
[23:41] <ProjectCirrus> yeah change it in your options... its under 3d view and the show lat lon area
[23:42] <ProjectCirrus> 141°20'18.15"E is very roughly sapporo japan
[23:42] <Randomskk> sapporo :D
[23:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> anyhow
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> it looks like a Pacific flight could be made :P
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> you get to the Date Line in under 24 hours
[23:43] <ProjectCirrus> does it work ok now?
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> it does give a server busy again
[23:45] <ProjectCirrus> how many people can that predictor host at once i wonder
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> but I have another interesting thing
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[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> ProjectCirrus do you know Earthwinds Transglobal?
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[23:47] <ProjectCirrus> i do now
[23:47] preetum (~apollo299@c-67-160-116-121.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> I once wrote a short story of such a balloon flying from Thailand to Tanzania with the Passat Winds
[23:47] <ProjectCirrus> cool
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> but the Predictor now spoke a different language
[23:47] <ProjectCirrus> ?
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> I either flew east or from Thailand to India
[23:48] <ProjectCirrus> yeah
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> then I tried the West Coast of Indonesia
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> but then I also landed in the sea and things like that
[23:48] <ProjectCirrus> naturally :0
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> and Nairobi and Dar Es Salaam didn't work either
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> but if you had launched at 18:15 GMT yesterday from Dar Es Salaam, you would land at Lake Victoria's shore after 24 hours
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> given that you are floating at 9000 m
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> and that's just like in "Five Weeks in a Balloon" :)
[23:49] <ProjectCirrus> precise control and a nightmare for atc but pretty awesome
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> and then I did a final try
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> Goa, India
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> and now I have it
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> if you go to 30000 to 33000, you run 1850 km in one day
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> due west
[23:50] <ProjectCirrus> good, but seasonal changes must screw with it a lot
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> but then the second day must be a bit difficult
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> I mean
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> your options
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> to your right: Yemen
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> to your left: Somalia
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> straight on: Sudan
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> with much luck you hit Djibouti
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> that would be the best choice
[23:52] <ProjectCirrus> thats a lot to come together!, are there any CUSF people on tonight?
[23:52] <Lunar_Lander> good question
[23:52] <Lunar_Lander> but I realized now that my story I once wrote probably was shit
[23:52] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:53] <ProjectCirrus> ahh well thats how it goes.... never let the facts get in the way of a good story
[23:53] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:53] <Lunar_Lander> I even did a little map in AutoRout
[23:53] <Lunar_Lander> *AutoRoute
[23:53] <Randomskk> ProjectCirrus: hi
[23:53] <Randomskk> I am
[23:54] <Randomskk> fergusnoble is but he's afk atm
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> and I made a perfect South-Westerly line
[23:54] <jonsowman> me too :)
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> no turns and nothing
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> .P
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[23:54] <Randomskk> ooh, and jonsowman is around
[23:54] <Randomskk> three of us
[23:54] <Randomskk> hi jonsowman
[23:54] <jonsowman> Randomskk: hello :)
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> and I put the little maps in
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> hi jonsowman
[23:54] <ProjectCirrus> did ed ever mention loaning the old radio to us
[23:54] <Randomskk> yea
[23:54] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: hia
[23:54] <Randomskk> haven't heard anything from him on that front though
[23:54] <Randomskk> jonsowman: so I came up with my idea for the product design but still haven't done any 'real' work, starting to feel bad about it
[23:54] <jonsowman> which radio is this
[23:55] <Randomskk> jonsowman: the old old yaesu that was sitting on the filing cabinet
[23:55] <jonsowman> Randomskk: well at least you have an idea
[23:55] <jonsowman> oh that oner
[23:55] <jonsowman> *one
[23:55] <Randomskk> jonsowman: will probably do some tomorrow except
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> BTW, I was wrong
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> before Sudan comes Eritrea
[23:55] <Randomskk> my driving lesson got moved from friday morning to tomorrow morning
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> AFAIK, Eritrea is a peaceful country
[23:55] <Randomskk> so after two hours driving from 9am I'll probably want to get home and sleep for a bit
[23:55] <jonsowman> Randomskk: ah thats annoying - hows the driving going?
[23:55] <Randomskk> which means getting much work done tomorrow is less and less likely
[23:56] <Randomskk> and then friday is already all gone as someone is coming to visit from london for the day
[23:56] <Randomskk> driving is going well
[23:56] <ProjectCirrus> ok, its just that i'm not sure if he's forgotten but our project is getting REALLY close to our deadline and we can't test our kit till the radio arrives!
[23:56] <Randomskk> actually going out and driving every day makes a massive difference
[23:56] <Randomskk> ProjectCirrus: I don't think he's forgotten but he is very busy, keep emailing him
[23:56] <Randomskk> literally keep emailing him
[23:56] <jonsowman> ProjectCirrus: have you sent an email to the CUSF list?
[23:56] <ProjectCirrus> i understand, he seems like a busy guy
[23:56] <Randomskk> there were some emails about it on the list
[23:56] <jonsowman> Randomskk: ok
[23:57] <jonsowman> Randomskk: do you know where he is atm? ie. still in cam?
[23:57] <Randomskk> no idea actually
[23:57] <Randomskk> he was in cam very recently
[23:57] <jonsowman> no me neither
[23:57] <Randomskk> ^
[23:57] <jonsowman> well he's probably alive then
[23:57] <Randomskk> and at cam
[23:57] <jonsowman> which is a plus
[23:57] <jonsowman> yep
[23:57] <ProjectCirrus> it was one of those things that was organised a while ago but i'm just worried in case it's slipped his mind
[23:58] <jonsowman> ProjectCirrus: we'll get it sorted somehow
[23:58] <ProjectCirrus> or he leaves for easter and we're left stuck
[23:58] <Randomskk> jonsowman: my product design idea is even based on a real live difficulty a person experienced, awesome
[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman I wrote a story about a manned Indian Ocean flight (Thailand-Tanzania) in an Earthwinds-type balloon about four years ago
[23:58] <Randomskk> however I have suddenly come up with a solution rather than a real problem
[23:58] <Randomskk> so a bit the wrong way to do things
[23:58] <jonsowman> Randomskk: :) best way
[23:58] <Randomskk> all the rest of the work will be writing down my solution and other 'potentials' that are obviously shit
[23:58] <Randomskk> and ruling them out
[23:58] <Randomskk> e.g. GCSE and A-level systems & design
[23:58] <jonsowman> ProjectCirrus: any project website/info page?
[23:58] <Randomskk> remember 'alternative circuits'? :P
[23:59] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: nice :)
[23:59] <ProjectCirrus> thanks I appreciate the help.... it might even be in the post for all I know
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> and now I found out that you cannot go from Thailand to Tanzania :P
[23:59] <jonsowman> why's that?
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> I tried the predictor
[23:59] <jonsowman> oh is this the dateline bug?
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> it sends me towards India and Sri Lanka
[23:59] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: the winds are fickle
[00:00] <Randomskk> and may change
[00:00] --- Thu Mar 25 2010