highaltitude.log.20100319

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[06:08] <earthshine> juxta: ping
[06:17] <earthshine> Juxta are you there ?
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[07:03] <earthshine> jonsowmanmorning
[07:04] <earthshine> oops
[07:04] <earthshine> morning
[07:24] <natrium42> hi earthshine
[07:34] <natrium42> nn
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[11:15] <earthshine> having a weird time with my ublox
[11:15] <earthshine> i'm sat near a window and yet it is onky picking up 2 satellites and taking ages to acquire those
[11:20] <Laurenceb> which ublox?
[11:21] <Laurenceb> low emissivity windows?
[11:22] <Laurenceb> foil insulation in walls?
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[11:37] <Laurenceb> I once got just one sat near the window in a uni building - when I looked up the prn, I discovered it was coming in down the lift shaft!
[11:37] <Laurenceb> low e glazing panels can totally block gps
[11:39] <russss> hah
[11:40] <junderwood> earthshine, which direction is your window? The satellites never get too far North
[11:40] <Laurenceb> that as well
[11:40] <Laurenceb> or just bad luck with alignment
[11:41] <Randomskk> question is whether any other GPS gets a better lock in the same circumstances
[11:42] <earthshine> the window faces south
[11:42] <earthshine> these units though are supposed to be uktra-sensitive and be able to pick up satellites from just about anywhere even indoors
[11:42] <junderwood> I found the uBlox modules (LEA-5x) pretty good. I got a good SBAS signal with the (powered) antenna against a north facing window. Of course it picked up the SBAS corrections from the geostationary satellite through the house walls.
[11:42] <Laurenceb> ublox5?
[11:43] <Laurenceb> yeah I've found that
[11:43] <Laurenceb> SBAS is really strong
[11:57] <earthshine> bizarre
[11:57] <earthshine> i'm flummoxed
[11:57] <Laurenceb> have you had it working inside before?
[11:57] <earthshine> no
[11:58] <earthshine> but i just put it by the patio windows and opened them and still nothing
[11:58] <Laurenceb> reset it
[11:58] <Laurenceb> is it a ublox5?
[11:58] <earthshine> FSA03
[11:58] <earthshine> i've resete it about 50 times
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> earthshine: Take it out to the top of a hill, and hold it on top of your head.
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> Alternatively, what antenna?
[11:59] <earthshine> it's all built in - it's the FSA03 unit with the helical antenna
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> oh - those
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> Try another GPS - perhaps ass-hat with jammer
[12:00] <Laurenceb> leave it for a minute or two after resetting
[12:01] <junderwood> What is attached to it? Any chance of interference?
[12:01] <Laurenceb> ooh I know
[12:01] <Laurenceb> the power supply pita
[12:01] <Laurenceb> how are you powering it?
[12:01] <junderwood> All the uBlox modules have Faraday cans attached. The FSA03 is naked
[12:02] <Laurenceb> ublox5 is a PITA wrt power
[12:02] <earthshine> it's attached to a bench PSU
[12:02] <Laurenceb> IMO unlikely to work
[12:03] <junderwood> never had any problem with uBlox power here - and I've used a fair few. But I've always had a local voltage reg
[12:03] <Laurenceb> you'll need a LDO and low ESR cap next to it
[12:03] <Laurenceb> junderwood: I've had very bad experiences with them
[12:03] <Laurenceb> when ?I tried stuff similar to earthshine
[12:04] <earthshine> ok i'll try an alternative power source
[12:04] <Laurenceb> the RF runs directly off Vcc
[12:04] <Laurenceb> then theres a 1.8v reg internally for the digital
[12:04] <junderwood> Yuk.
[12:04] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:05] <Laurenceb> also FSA03 has a TCXO off Vcc
[12:05] <Laurenceb> it needs as close as poss to 3.3v
[12:05] <junderwood> decoupling caps are always a good idea anyway - 1pence each and hardly any board area.
[12:05] <Laurenceb> falcom recommend a LDO as close as poss, and a 33uF low esr tantalum
[12:05] <Laurenceb> theres some MLCCs on the board
[12:06] <Laurenceb> but they are smaller
[12:06] <Randomskk> low esr tants are hardly 1p each sadly
[12:06] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:06] <Laurenceb> or that small
[12:06] <Randomskk> still almost negligable compared to the cost of the gps itself though
[12:07] <Laurenceb> £1 or 2
[12:07] <Randomskk> yea
[12:07] <Randomskk> annoying footprints sadly, not standard sizes usually
[12:07] <Laurenceb> SparkFun have some
[12:07] <Laurenceb> thats what I used on my board
[12:08] <Laurenceb> atm I'm getting annoyed by the size of 0.1 inch connectors
[12:08] <Laurenceb> and the CR1216 holder thats huge :(
[12:08] <junderwood> as I recall Eagle has some standard SMC Tantalum footprints (SMA, SMB, SMC from memory)
[12:09] <Randomskk> yea
[12:09] <Randomskk> those are the ones I've used in the past
[12:09] <Randomskk> in the rcl lib
[12:09] <junderwood> There's a limit to how small you can make a 0.1" connector!
[12:09] <junderwood> You can get 0.05", though
[12:09] <Randomskk> about 0.1" as it happens :P
[12:10] <Randomskk> use smaller connectors, JST are nice
[12:10] <Randomskk> I really need a crimping tool for JST though, doing it by hand is the worst thing ever
[12:10] <Randomskk> there's 2mm connectors which are slightly smaller but seem hardly worth it
[12:10] <Laurenceb> yeah I've using JST for power
[12:11] <junderwood> I found some SMT 2mm connectors. A lot easier to fit since you only lose one side of the board
[12:11] <Laurenceb> 0.1'' is easy to plug and durable
[12:12] <Randomskk> junderwood: they are nice, sf use them for some xbee stuff
[12:12] <Randomskk> however I find that fairly often having connectors on both sides of the board can make connecting to them easier
[12:12] <junderwood> true
[12:12] <Randomskk> hard to say - I tend to only put components on one side where I can possibly help it
[12:12] <Randomskk> so I don't really gain any component space by having smt connectors
[12:13] <Randomskk> otoh the more smt the better as far as board manufacture and reflow goes
[12:13] <junderwood> I'm looking at them for stacking boards. Two connectors back to back, one M, one F
[12:13] <Laurenceb> I'm having connectors one side, compnents the other
[12:14] <Laurenceb> so I gain space with smd
[12:14] <Randomskk> fair enough
[12:14] <Laurenceb> JST is big tho
[12:14] <Laurenceb> and I want to avoid really odd stuff
[12:14] <Randomskk> the female ones are pretty big
[12:14] <Randomskk> eh
[12:14] <juxta> hey earthshine, still around?
[12:14] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:14] <Randomskk> 2mm is a fair compromise I guess
[12:14] <Randomskk> jst's really only suited for wire-to-board
[12:15] <Randomskk> you woudln't use it for board to board
[12:15] <Randomskk> 2mm or 0.1" is better there - if it was solely board to board 2mm might be preferable since it's smaller, but for things going to the outside world 0.1" is a massive standard plus spaced nicely enough to hack stuff into, connect oscope and logic probes, etc
[12:16] <earthshine> justa yes
[12:17] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: yeah - all my connectors are for interface cables
[12:17] <Laurenceb> serial, I2C periferrals, RS485, and a GPS header buried under the FSA03 footprint
[12:22] <Laurenceb> JST wondnt save me any space
[12:22] <Randomskk> issue I have with 0.1" is the locking thing
[12:23] <Laurenceb> I'm going to try and aim for 35x60mm with 0.1'' for the cable headers
[12:23] <Randomskk> you can get polarised locking 0.1" though
[12:23] <Laurenceb> the 0.1'' SIL stuff is very reliable in my experience
[12:23] <Randomskk> they're still a bit shit, just a plastic tab on one side of the pins that mates with the pin housing
[12:23] <Laurenceb> toby.co.uk
[12:23] <Laurenceb> yeah I avoid those - I've been using the gold plated stuff from toby
[12:24] <Randomskk> oh, nice
[12:24] <Laurenceb> very tight fitting and pretty good quality
[12:24] <Randomskk> hadn't seen that site
[12:24] <Randomskk> looks good
[12:24] <Randomskk> I like idc stuff where possible too
[12:24] <Laurenceb> no need for the crummy molex plastic tabs
[12:24] <Randomskk> you can get polarised idc headers, friction tends to be enough to stop it pulling out, super easy to assemble
[12:24] <Randomskk> and strain relief built in mostly
[12:24] <Randomskk> you need at least 6 or so lines before it's useful though I guess
[12:25] <earthshine> `why is this happening?....
[12:25] <earthshine> 3.3v from a Bench PSU and the voltage acrtoss the unit is 3.3v
[12:26] <earthshine> but when I attach batteries the voltage drops to 0.3v
[12:26] <earthshine> even when i have 5.5 volts coming in from batteries
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[12:26] <Randomskk> what current does the psu say?
[12:27] <Laurenceb> eeek
[12:27] <earthshine> the bench PSu was using about 110mA
[12:27] <Laurenceb> you applied 5.5v ?
[12:27] <Laurenceb> thats not right
[12:27] <Laurenceb> should be 60ma max
[12:29] <earthshine> if i plug it back into the bench PSU it works fine - except it takes ages to acquire satellites and only 1 or 2 max
[12:29] <Randomskk> hardly working fine
[12:29] <earthshine> currently it is saying it is using around 100mA
[12:29] <Laurenceb> I'm worried you may have damaged the RF front end
[12:29] <earthshine> workinf fine as in - communicating with the PC ok, etc.
[12:30] <Laurenceb> the digital is protected by is internal reg
[12:30] <Laurenceb> you should never exceed the absolute max
[12:30] <Laurenceb> specs
[12:30] <junderwood> Not surprised about it taking 100 mA, especially if the antenna is active.
[12:30] <junderwood> and it's acquiring
[12:31] <junderwood> I have a LEA-5T which takes 100mA constant during acquisition and then 100mA periodically while tracking
[12:36] <Laurenceb> GS5010 is lower current
[12:36] <Laurenceb> shouldnt exceed 60ma or so
[12:39] <Laurenceb> but I could be wrong
[12:39] <Laurenceb> but you should never exceed 3.6v supply
[12:43] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[13:21] <juxta_> hey earthshine
[13:21] <juxta_> still about?
[13:22] <earthshine> yeah
[13:22] <juxta_> I'm about for another 10 mins or so
[13:22] <juxta_> what's happening with the module?
[13:22] <juxta_> hassles I take it? :(
[13:22] <earthshine> it's communicating wih the PC fine, but it is only acquiring 1, maybe 2 satellites max
[13:22] <juxta_> hmm
[13:22] <juxta_> indoors or out?
[13:23] <earthshine> lauranceb thinks it might be the power supply but i don't seen to be able to find anything else
[13:23] <earthshine> indoors
[13:23] <juxta_> mine will sometimes get lock indoors, usually best if i take it out, let it get lock, then bring it back in and it can hold it OK
[13:23] <earthshine> but i put it by the patio windows and opened them so it had a clear view of the sky and no change
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[13:23] <juxta_> also, remember that if you havent got a backup battery it will take a while for it to build a copy of the almanac
[13:24] <earthshine> maybe i'll take the whole lot outside and see what happens then
[13:24] <juxta_> from a cold boot, tracking only a couple of sats, it could take 15 minutes to get lock
[13:24] <earthshine> i've just been connecting the battery input into the same 3.3v supply
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[13:25] <earthshine> well i've left it running about 20 mins now and still only 1 satellite
[13:25] <juxta_> battery backup is there to keep the GPS 'remembering' when the power is disconnected
[13:25] <juxta_> so if you take the power off and the battery backup isnt connected, back to square one
[13:25] <juxta_> but I wouldnt really fret just yet, try it outdoors :)
[13:25] <juxta_> what kind of roof do you have?
[13:25] <earthshine> yeah i'll give that a go
[13:25] <earthshine> tile roof
[13:26] <juxta_> mine is tin, it's a pain, hard to get lock. plus there's metalized foil insulation, doesnt help either
[13:26] <earthshine> weird thing is i have another GPS unit, a USB BPS mouse, which picks up lots of satellites from just about anywhere in the house
[13:26] <earthshine> *GPS
[13:26] <juxta_> hmm
[13:27] <earthshine> so it's weird that this unit - which is supposed to be the bees knees - is picking up only 2 right next to a window
[13:27] <juxta_> true
[13:27] <juxta_> I have nothing to compare with - none of my other GPS modules are able to even pickup a single sat at my house
[13:27] <juxta_> so I thought it good that the ublox could at least get a couple :)
[13:28] <earthshine> oh my! It just picked up a 3rd satellite whilst we were talking
[13:28] <juxta_> oh great :)
[13:28] <earthshine> I wonder if I just need to leave it runnning for a while and sort out the battery backup
[13:28] <juxta_> did it get lock yet?
[13:28] <earthshine> no lock yet
[13:28] <juxta_> I suspect that's probably the case
[13:28] <earthshine> now it's lost one - back to two
[13:28] <earthshine> very weird
[13:29] <earthshine> i'll leave it running for a few hours and see what happens
[13:29] <juxta_> it's probably just having a hard time acquiring indoors
[13:29] <earthshine> probably
[13:29] <juxta_> the sarantel antenna is supposed to be good in lots of orientations
[13:30] <juxta_> which would mean it would be lower gain than a patch
[13:30] <earthshine> do you use a button cell as your backup battery ?
[13:30] <juxta_> yeah I do
[13:31] <juxta_> I'm off for now - catchya later on :)
[13:31] <earthshine> ok thanks for your help
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[15:23] <g1zvn> what the server address for freenode, chat.freenode.net doesn't work for me
[15:24] <russss> irc.freenode.net
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[15:28] <g1zvn> thanks
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[17:16] <edmoore> what ed has learned today: dried apricots have consequences
[17:16] <edmoore> serious consequences
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> Do you now have an apricot tree growing out of your ear?
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[17:28] <earthshine> lol
[17:30] <edmoore> i got through about 500g absent-mindedly whilst writing a report. jesus
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[17:35] <ProjectCirrus> hey ed... any joy with radio?
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:44] <sbasuita> This evil thing is just teasing me now...... http://www.srcf.ucam.org/cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/
[17:45] <russss> haha wtf
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[17:46] <russss> some interesting paths in there
[17:47] <Randomskk> lol sbasuita
[17:47] <russss> curvy.
[17:47] <earthshine> sbasuita you have a payload to go up ?
[17:48] <sbasuita> earthshine, yep
[17:48] <Randomskk> sbasuita: all tested and ready?
[17:48] <sbasuita> waiting on the weather
[17:48] <sbasuita> Randomskk, tested a bit
[17:48] <Randomskk> test more :P
[17:48] <jonsowman> hi all
[17:48] <earthshine> it's been a long time since you launched hasn't it ?
[17:48] <earthshine> hi jonsowman
[17:51] <jiffe> hah, I'm in the memphis airport, they just told us our plane is "broken" and made us get off the plane
[17:51] <Randomskk> nice
[17:52] <Randomskk> http://manchester.ukfablabs.org/ :o
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[17:55] <russss> wtf who are these cowboys
[17:56] <jonsowman> earthshine: hi
[17:56] <Randomskk> lookit what they've got. a massive flatbed miller, a 3d miller/scanner, laser cutter, etc
[17:56] <russss> it's crazy how you can work in this field for a year, meeting new people every week, and *still* not find out about some of these things
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[17:58] <russss> they are fairly new, but not that new
[17:59] <russss> errrrrr
[18:00] <russss> oh, hah
[18:00] <russss> I went to http://ukfablabs.org/ and it showed me the hackspace foundation site. But that's because it resolves to 0.0.0.0 and the site is on my local machine.
[18:08] <SpeedEvil> jiffe: Did you ask them if they'd tried turning it off and on again?
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[18:15] <jiffe> hah, yeah they tried a reboot :)
[18:16] <jiffe> guess they have to replace a part, seemingly related to engine operation, I'm not sure how I feel about that
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[18:18] <Enceladus> Hi sbasuita. That prediction software is really good! I checked out your predictions, and of the points that fall on land, every single one of them is a field landing. I don't know why but I seem to imagine the horrific situation of the payload landing in a road as being far more probable than it actually seems to be.
[18:20] <sbasuita> Enceladus, yeah, the predictions let us steer away from any major cities, so the only roads it can land on are country lanes - all the more likely someone calls the number on the box ;)
[18:21] <Enceladus> Yeah. It's surprising how much of the country is taken up by countryside and fields! Far more than we imagine, I guess. So provided you choose the best prediction, I guess the probability of a major road landing is actually very low.
[18:21] <Enceladus> I suppose they wouldn't let you guys launch these things otherwise.
[18:22] <Enceladus> How good are the predictions in practice, then?
[18:23] <sbasuita> Enceladus, i think a couple dozen km
[18:23] <sbasuita> Enceladus, but i'm not certain
[18:24] <Enceladus> So within a 24KM radius, most probably?
[18:24] <Enceladus> That's quite a large area of uncertainty. But I suppose that as long as it's going to land away from highly populated areas you're likely to be okay.
[18:25] <sbasuita> mmm
[18:25] <Enceladus> When are you launching, then? Just waiting on weather?
[18:25] <sbasuita> Enceladus, as soon as the winds swing the other way
[18:26] <Enceladus> Brill. Is that from an approved site or something? Somewhere where you don't need a month's advance warning?
[18:27] <sbasuita> Enceladus, yeah the churchill college site has blanket permission i think
[18:27] <Enceladus> I was thinking you'd need to set a date, give your month's warning, and then if you abandoned the launch due to weather you'd have to set a date another month away.
[18:27] <Enceladus> Ah okay, that's pretty good then.
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[18:34] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:34] <jcoxon> wow 41 peoplw
[18:34] <jcoxon> people*
[18:34] <jonsowman> evening jcoxon
[18:37] <earthshine> evening
[18:37] <earthshine> juxta: ping
[18:42] <earthshine> the FSA03 sorted itself out
[18:42] <earthshine> Just needed to leave it for an hour to load the almanac
[18:43] <earthshine> now it's working fine - off the BEnch PSU too
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[18:52] <jcoxon> thats good news :-)
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[19:14] <jcoxon> hmmm so how would i use git to clone a copy of the fldigi repo so that i could work on it with my GitHub account
[19:14] <jcoxon> and continue to track changes
[19:15] <sbasuita> jcoxon, if you make the new repo on github it will give you instructions
[19:16] <jcoxon> fldigi is hosted on berliOS, do i have to go via my local git copy?
[19:16] <sbasuita> jcoxon, i don't think you have to clone the berlios repo first
[19:16] <sbasuita> jcoxon, you make a new repo then import it with some command
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[19:18] <sbasuita> jcoxon, just go to https://github.com/repositories/new , fill it out, and after you've created it run the commands under the relevant subheading
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[19:19] <Randomskk> jcoxon: so you clone their repository, then add their repositiry as remote 'upstream', then push to your github repository
[19:20] <jcoxon> hmmm okay
[19:20] <Randomskk> git clone git://git.berlios.de/fldigi
[19:20] <Randomskk> git remote add upstream git://git.berlios.de/fldigi
[19:21] <Randomskk> to update from their source, "git pull upstream master"
[19:21] <Randomskk> meanwhile you make a new repository on github
[19:21] <jcoxon> so i'm using my local copy as a go between
[19:21] <Randomskk> git remote add origin git@github.com:jcoxon/dl-fldigi
[19:21] <Randomskk> kind-of, but really your local copy is the main master central copy
[19:22] <Randomskk> github is just hosting what you push to it, and upstream is letting you download new stuff
[19:22] <Randomskk> bbl dinner
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[19:32] <Laurenceb> hi
[19:32] <jcoxon> hey Laurenceb
[19:34] <DanielRichman> earthshine, an HOUR to load the almanac!
[19:34] <DanielRichman> earthshine, did you leave it inside a lead safe or something
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[19:40] <earthshine> DanielRichman: Nope, just somewhere it had difficulty receiving the satellites
[19:40] <DanielRichman> hmm
[19:40] <DanielRichman> mine had a cold-boot lock in 4 mins
[19:40] <earthshine> but now it's done all that I can power it off and back on and it obtains lock almost instantly
[19:40] <DanielRichman> well less than 4 mins
[19:40] <DanielRichman> battery backup?
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[19:40] <earthshine> yep
[19:43] <Laurenceb> earthshine: luck?
[19:43] <Laurenceb> FSA03 is working now?
[19:43] <earthshine> yep
[19:43] <earthshine> works fine - wasn't killed
[19:43] <earthshine> just needed to leave it to 'do it's thing'
[19:43] <Laurenceb> your lucky - should never apply more than 3.6v
[19:44] <earthshine> well it's obviously a tough little bugger
[19:44] <earthshine> Anyway i've now got 10+ satellites
[19:45] <earthshine> and current has now dropped to around 60mA
[19:45] <Laurenceb> sounds more sensible
[19:45] <Laurenceb> but datasheet says 40ma :-/
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[20:10] <edmoore> just saw the ferret on hackaday
[20:10] <edmoore> well done peeps
[20:11] <edmoore> am not sure they'd be interested in b2
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[20:16] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/DfX6l.png
[20:16] <Laurenceb> ^ its about 60% routed now - I'm trying to squeeze the size down to 30x60mm
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> how much is getting hte PCBs made?
[20:21] <Laurenceb> $8 with batchpcb
[20:21] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[20:25] <SpeedEvil> Possibly saner to just make the first one a bit relaxed in spacing
[20:37] <earthshine> what is this circuit for anyway ?
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> It's like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr8WXP9PItk
[20:41] <earthshine> is this for a rocket or a drone aircraft ?
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> It's a remote controllable - well - has RF link - general purpose autopilot
[20:42] <earthshine> for an rc plane ?
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> general purpose
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[20:44] <SpeedEvil> it's just a board that has a basic INS on it + GPS + IO
[20:44] <earthshine> One of my 'to do' projects is an autopilot controlled RC plane for doing aerial photogrpahy - give it a set of waypoints and set it off to take pictures and come back
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> Are you in the UK?
[20:44] <earthshine> yup
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> That's not legal
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[20:44] <earthshine> Why not?
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> Or rahter - not without jumping through enormous numbers of hoops
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> Because UAVs are now regulated - since (IIRC) Jan this year
[20:45] <earthshine> jesus
[20:45] <earthshine> more friggin' red tape and BS
[20:46] <earthshine> i'm moving out to NEvada - you can do what the frig you like out there
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[20:46] <SpeedEvil> At least - as I( understand it - I haven't read the legislation to check
[20:46] <earthshine> it wouldn't surprise me
[20:47] <earthshine> the politicians are squeezing the joy out of everything
[20:47] <earthshine> that would have put a lot of people out of business - there are a whole load of UAV business for agriculture
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[21:42] <fsphil> a crystal oscillator is unlikely to work on breadboard yea?
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> It depends.
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> If you take into account hte fact that there is 10pf between adjacent tracks it can work ok
[21:43] <fsphil> aaah, so I'm over-doing the capacitance
[21:44] <earthshine> yes it should work fine
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[21:46] <earthshine> i did a breadboard arduino - it's on Make somewhere
[21:46] <earthshine> At the bottom - http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/04/breadboard_arduino_from_oomlout.html
[21:53] <fsphil> ah, cute
[21:53] <fsphil> what speed was the crystal?
[21:53] <earthshine> 16MHz
[21:54] <earthshine> an oscillator is just as good
[21:54] <earthshine> and easier as you can do without the caps
[21:58] <fsphil> ah-ha! it's working now
[21:58] <fsphil> without the caps
[21:58] <fsphil> weird
[21:59] <earthshine> probably not necessary
[21:59] <earthshine> as speedevil said - there is capacitance between the tracks anyway
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[21:59] <earthshine> just make sure you have enough to keep the oscillations steady
[22:00] <natrium42> o/
[22:00] <fsphil> I was sure I had the same setup as this yesterday
[22:00] <fsphil> it just wouldn't start
[22:00] <earthshine> \o
[22:00] <natrium42> how are the winds? :)
[22:00] <earthshine> windy
[22:00] <natrium42> windy winds are windy
[22:00] <Randomskk> wind? over my country?
[22:00] <Randomskk> it's more likely than you'd think
[22:01] <Randomskk> though to be fair it seems to be getting a little better
[22:01] <Randomskk> or at least may be thinkable at some point in the next week
[22:01] <Randomskk> starting to drift back overland
[22:01] <Randomskk> thursday evening / friday morning is a bit okay
[22:01] <natrium42> Randomskk, congrats on getting on hackaday :)
[22:01] <Randomskk> too far away to say for sure
[22:02] <Randomskk> natrium42: cheers :P
[22:02] <natrium42> is it your first time?
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[22:02] <Randomskk> third
[22:02] <natrium42> ah, cool
[22:02] <Randomskk> this is all jonsowman really though
[22:02] <Randomskk> his writeup and all that
[22:02] <natrium42> ah, congrats to jonsowman too then :)
[22:02] <natrium42> ubuntu lucid lynx beta 1 install time
[22:02] <jcoxon> back
[22:02] <Randomskk> not to mention he did the coding and schematic, all I did was soldermonkey :P
[22:02] <Randomskk> nevertheless +1 hackaday score
[22:03] <natrium42> hehe
[22:03] <jcoxon> my wireless internet in my hospital accomadation is actually slower then dialup
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[22:03] <Randomskk> sweet
[22:03] <earthshine> I got my BlokClok on Hackaday last year
[22:03] <earthshine> http://hackaday.com/2009/09/21/blokclok-abstract-time-display/
[22:03] <natrium42> jcoxon, what?! doctors use computers?!
[22:03] <jcoxon> hehe we've all been on hackaday
[22:03] <jcoxon> :-p
[22:04] <Randomskk> hackaday is such a whore
[22:04] <natrium42> jcoxon, the first time is special
[22:04] <natrium42> but then it's meh
[22:04] <earthshine> jcoxon is a whore
[22:04] <natrium42> but still cool
[22:04] <jcoxon> natrium42, to get the xrays!
[22:04] <jcoxon> earthshine, oi
[22:04] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:04] <Randomskk> lol
[22:04] <jcoxon> :-)
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[22:05] <natrium42> jcoxon, so dod you develop a doctor's handwriting yet? :P
[22:05] <natrium42> dod=did
[22:05] <Randomskk> eh, os look just like is
[22:05] <jcoxon> natrium42, oh mine is terrible
[22:05] <jcoxon> hehe 2005 = http://hackaday.com/2005/10/29/high-altitude-linux-take-2/
[22:05] <natrium42> :)
[22:05] <Randomskk> back in the day of them actually making the pictures proper and just doing lowercase
[22:06] <fsphil> ah the good old days ;)
[22:06] <Randomskk> 2008 :(
[22:06] <Randomskk> jcoxon beats me by three years
[22:06] <Randomskk> otoh he is probably >3 years older than me so hah
[22:07] <natrium42> jcoxon, http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/05/03/08/1941204/Nintendo-DS-Homebrew-and-Hacking?art_pos=3
[22:07] <natrium42> also 2005, heh
[22:07] <jcoxon> i had a patient who though it was 2004 today, when i told him it was 2010 he was a little upset as he felt he had lost 6 years
[22:07] <jcoxon> thought*
[22:07] <Randomskk> I would be a bit upset too!
[22:07] <Randomskk> natrium42: haha fine, you win
[22:07] Action: fsphil is a hackaday virgin :p
[22:08] <jcoxon> natrium42 has been around for quite a while
[22:08] <jcoxon> the funniest thing is to look at the early #highaltitude logs :-p
[22:08] <Randomskk> fsphil: connect an LED to an arduino and blog about it, then submit it
[22:08] <fsphil> lol
[22:08] <natrium42> jcoxon, now there's a weekend project
[22:08] <fsphil> I made an automatic lighting controller for a nestbox. might submit that
[22:09] <Randomskk> in my defence I didn't actually submit any of my three hackaday appearances
[22:09] <Randomskk> they found them
[22:09] <jcoxon> Randomskk, thats better
[22:09] <jcoxon> i admit i submitted mine
[22:09] <Randomskk> well jonsowman submitted the third
[22:09] <Randomskk> but the first two were all them
[22:09] <fsphil> I bet a disco LED balloon would get on there
[22:10] <Randomskk> by "all them" I mean "they saw it on sparkfun/MAKE and nicked it"
[22:10] <jcoxon> natrium42, http://sourceforge.net/projects/smalllinux2/
[22:11] <jcoxon> 2005
[22:12] <natrium42> cool :)
[22:12] <Randomskk> jcoxon created the Anyone still around? forum thread
[22:12] <Randomskk> posted by jcoxon 588 days ago
[22:12] <natrium42> lol
[22:12] <jcoxon> yeah i was sad back then
[22:12] <earthshine> lol
[22:13] <jcoxon> actually that smalllinux distro was pretty good
[22:13] <jcoxon> ran on my 386 rather well
[22:14] <fsphil> jinux
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[22:27] <Enceladus> jcoxon - hi. We spoke via email the other day. Thanks for your info!
[22:27] <Enceladus> Oh.
[22:27] <Randomskk> bad timing
[22:27] <Enceladus> Yep :)
[22:28] <earthshine> he's as slippery as a bar of soap
[22:28] <Enceladus> Haha.
[22:28] <Randomskk> 22:04:28 <earthshine> jcoxon is a whore
[22:28] <Randomskk> 22:28:10 <earthshine> he's as slippery as a bar of soap
[22:28] <Randomskk> something you want to tell us?
[22:29] <earthshine> :O
[22:29] <Enceladus> something we don't want to hear, it sounds like.
[22:29] <earthshine> OY!!
[22:29] <Randomskk> at least HAB isn't too open to inneundo
[22:30] <natrium42> 18 miles high club
[22:30] <Randomskk> hah
[22:30] <earthshine> lol
[22:31] <jonsowman> bad time to join in?
[22:31] <Randomskk> hi jonsowman
[22:31] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yo
[22:31] <Randomskk> it's okay, jcoxon just left
[22:31] <jonsowman> ah right
[22:31] <jonsowman> :p
[22:32] <Randomskk> earthshine and him were, uh,
[22:32] <Randomskk> taking things to a new level? dunno
[22:32] <jonsowman> well nice to know
[22:32] <Randomskk> getting high has all the wrong connotations
[22:32] <jonsowman> ha
[22:32] <earthshine> WOH! Nickcolor made whoever that is talkings nick the same colour as the background
[22:32] <Randomskk> nice job nickcolor
[22:32] <jonsowman> pretty unhelpful
[22:32] <Randomskk> you shoudl be able to tell it or irssi or something what the background colour is
[22:33] <earthshine> Ahh if I highlight it I can see who it is
[22:33] <Randomskk> or just use a black background
[22:33] <earthshine> Hi Jonsowman
[22:33] <jonsowman> earthshine: hello
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[22:33] <Randomskk> aha jcoxon is back
[22:33] <jcoxon> terrible internet
[22:34] <Randomskk> jcoxon: apparently you are "slippery"
[22:34] <natrium42> jcoxon, no reason to read the backlog, really
[22:34] <Randomskk> in other news did you get that git repo set up?
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[22:34] <jcoxon> Randomskk, still working on it
[22:34] <jcoxon> pushing it now
[22:37] <Enceladus> Hi jcoxon
[22:37] <jcoxon> hi Enceladus
[22:37] <Enceladus> We spoke via email the other day. Thanks for your info/help
[22:37] <jcoxon> oh cool, no worries - happy to help
[22:38] <Enceladus> :)
[22:40] <jcoxon> Randomskk, this push command seems to be freezing
[22:40] <jcoxon> after:
[22:40] <jcoxon> Writing objects: 100% (13972/13972), 3.99 MiB | 37 KiB/s, done.
[22:40] <jcoxon> Total 13972 (delta 11129), reused 13587 (delta 10852)
[22:40] <Randomskk> this is pushing to github?
[22:40] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:41] <Randomskk> might just need to wait a bit, especially if net is slow
[22:41] <jcoxon> fair enough - should have perhaps made it more verbose
[22:42] <jcoxon> (i should have)
[22:42] <jcoxon> Enceladus, hows the project planning coming along?
[22:42] Action: Enceladus is back (gone 00:03:35)
[22:43] <Enceladus> jcoxon, very well. It's had a major kick since coming here - lots of people have showered me with information and websites!
[22:43] <jcoxon> Randomskk, all done
[22:43] <Randomskk> sweet, I see it
[22:44] <jcoxon> Enceladus, tis a friendly place
[22:44] <Enceladus> Indeed. I've even chosen a name for my first payload now (Enceladus I), so there's no going back. By hook or by crook, something's going to launch.
[22:45] <sbasuita> jcoxon, Randomskk, i wonder if its possible to import the svn log as well
[22:45] <Randomskk> jcoxon: ./configure appears to be missing?
[22:45] <Randomskk> sbasuita: it is
[22:45] <Randomskk> git-svn
[22:45] <Randomskk> but getting it to import from that and also the upstream git repo could be interesting
[22:46] <Randomskk> jcoxon: is ./configure missing or is this cmakey
[22:46] <jcoxon> hmmm this will be a big upgrade though
[22:46] <sbasuita> Randomskk, i would assume the google code hosting is going to be discontinued though?
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[22:46] <jcoxon> Randomskk, yeah i'm inverstigating that
[22:46] <Randomskk> sbasuita: I guess there's no point having both on the go at once
[22:46] <sbasuita> in which case you could put the svn stuff in a branch off the correct revision of the berlios git and merge it in again at the current
[22:46] <Randomskk> yea
[22:47] <Randomskk> that'd probably work
[22:47] Action: Enceladus is away: Probably busy coding or doing some other nerdy stuff
[22:47] Action: Randomskk tries
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[22:48] <Enceladus> G'night all
[22:48] <Laurenceb> AIUI UAVs are ok if they are in visual line of sight
[22:48] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: that was my impression
[22:49] <Randomskk> unaided visual contact
[22:49] <Laurenceb> if you can see them and have a method for direct ground control
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[22:49] <Laurenceb> which in reality for experimental stuff is how you will be using it anyway
[22:50] <sbasuita> hmm: how come git tag -l doesn't give a list of tags :/
[22:50] <Laurenceb> github is such a stupid name
[22:50] <Laurenceb> where the gits hang out
[22:50] <natrium42> lol
[22:50] <Laurenceb> I'm not a git
[22:50] <sbasuita> git is a stupid name
[22:51] <Randomskk> have you heard why it's named that
[22:51] <Randomskk> linus says "I'm an arrogant bastard and name all my projects after myself: first linux, now git"
[22:51] <natrium42> lol
[22:51] <jcoxon> hmmm the lack of configure is weird
[22:52] <sbasuita> jcoxon, you need to run autotools to generate it
[22:52] <sbasuita> jcoxon, run autoconf
[22:53] <jcoxon> autoconf didn't play nice
[22:54] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: ok its awsome if thats true
[22:54] <sbasuita> jcoxon, i think it prints a bunch of errors but still produces a script *shrug*
[22:55] <sbasuita> but then the script complains about something to do with install-sh
[22:55] <sbasuita> =/
[22:55] <Randomskk> there are an awful lot of conflicts when I try the merge from svn to latest from their git
[22:55] <Randomskk> lulz
[22:56] <Randomskk> we need to update the svn to the latest fldigi I guess
[22:56] <Randomskk> or are you suggesting merging svn to its corresponding fldigi
[22:56] <Randomskk> and then applying later fldigi updates on top?
[22:56] <Randomskk> is a suitably old fldigi available on git?
[22:57] <jcoxon> Randomskk, oh i wouldn't go near merging the svn with the latests fldigi
[22:57] <sbasuita> Randomskk, yes, what you just said
[22:57] <Randomskk> jcoxon: idea there is to get all the history and previous work etc
[22:57] <jcoxon> rjharrison and i plan to port it over, more like a rewrite
[22:57] <Randomskk> or are we starting from scratch?
[22:57] <Randomskk> ah, okay
[22:57] <sbasuita> oh a rewrite
[22:57] <jcoxon> its terribly hacked and there are loads of key features
[22:57] <Randomskk> yea
[22:58] <earthshine> ok i'm off to bed
[22:58] <earthshine> night all
[22:58] <jcoxon> thats of course if i can get the damn thing to compile
[22:58] <fsphil> I had awful trouble trying to modify fldigi's makefiles
[22:59] <Randomskk> autoconf is definitely not too happy
[23:00] <jcoxon> Randomskk, the latest tarball with configure works great
[23:00] <Randomskk> so the only question is how they make the tarball from the github source
[23:00] <sbasuita> they must have some script
[23:00] <sbasuita> aha
[23:00] <sbasuita> scripts/ ;P
[23:00] <Randomskk> running automake produces other weird results
[23:01] <sbasuita> actually, the scripts are all osx/windows related
[23:01] <Randomskk> yea
[23:01] <Randomskk> sadly
[23:01] <jcoxon> nothing on the mailing lists
[23:02] <jcoxon> Randomskk, sbasuita oh if you want to have a look at what i'm thinking grab the new3.20 branch off the googlecode svn, compile and run ./fldigi --hab
[23:02] <sbasuita> jcoxon, ok
[23:02] <jcoxon> this was where i was starting to play
[23:02] <Randomskk> https://fedorahosted.org/fldigi/wiki/Documentation/HOWTO/BuildOnDebian
[23:02] <Randomskk> autoreconf -vfi
[23:02] <Randomskk> appears to be working so far
[23:02] <Randomskk> ta da
[23:02] <Randomskk> configuring now
[23:03] <jcoxon> lets put that in hte make file :-p
[23:03] <jcoxon> not make file i mean readme file
[23:03] <Randomskk> configures okay, almost all enabled too
[23:03] <Randomskk> making
[23:03] <Randomskk> I have everything except portaudio
[23:04] <Randomskk> la la still making
[23:04] <Randomskk> appears to be making flarq too
[23:04] <Randomskk> made
[23:04] <Randomskk> and we're running
[23:04] <Randomskk> wroks
[23:06] <Randomskk> appears to be functional
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[23:08] <Randomskk> sbasuita: useful tip, `git clean -f` will remove untracked files from local directory to clean up all the crap autoreconf and configure and make will generate
[23:09] <sbasuita> Randomskk, cheers :)
[23:10] <sbasuita> -d is useful there as well
[23:10] <Randomskk> ah yes
[23:10] <Randomskk> though git doesn't really care about directories
[23:10] <Randomskk> still clutters up status though
[23:10] <Randomskk> fair enough
[23:10] <sbasuita> saves the ominous red lines on my git status though ;)
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[23:10] <Randomskk> yea :P
[23:10] <jcoxon> damn 3g
[23:11] <jcoxon> hmmm doesn't configure happy on os x
[23:16] <fsphil> ah brilliant Randomskk, autoreconf -vfi fixed my build issues too
[23:16] <sbasuita> $ git remote add upstream git://github.com/pjhyett/github-services.git
[23:16] <sbasuita> $ git fetch upstream
[23:16] <sbasuita> grabs a nice bunch of tags
[23:16] <Randomskk> got portlib dev files on so now I have yesses in all columns, how nice
[23:17] <sbasuita> oops
[23:17] <sbasuita> that url is just wrong
[23:17] <sbasuita> : (
[23:17] <sbasuita> but yeh
[23:17] <Randomskk> sbasuita: `git tag -l` shows me loads of tags
[23:17] <Randomskk> I have upupstream added as the original berlios repo and that's where they all came from though
[23:17] <sbasuita> Randomskk, hmm, that didn't work for me before i fetched
[23:17] <sbasuita> yeah
[23:17] <jcoxon> sbasuita, get anywhere with the new3.20 branch?
[23:18] <sbasuita> jcoxon, yeah i ran it and its nice to seperate out the ukhas mods with the --hab option
[23:18] <sbasuita> nice simple interface as well will encourage more trackers
[23:18] <jcoxon> also lets you view maps etc
[23:18] <Randomskk> I'm all in favour of having the hab stuff be a totally toggleable option
[23:18] <Randomskk> and then when it is on making it easier to use for just hab stuff
[23:19] <sbasuita> jcoxon, you can view maps?
[23:19] <jcoxon> as in you can place it at the bottom of your screen
[23:19] <jcoxon> and have things behind it running
[23:20] <sbasuita> ah yes
[23:21] <jcoxon> ./configure: line 12625: syntax error near unexpected token `PNG,'
[23:21] <jcoxon> ./configure: line 12625: ` PKG_CHECK_MODULES(PNG, libpng >= 1.2.8, ac_cv_[]png=yes, ac_cv_[]png=no)'
[23:21] <Randomskk> :/
[23:26] <jcoxon> obviously something to do with osx
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[23:51] <jcoxon> grrrr this stupid error is annoying me
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[00:00] --- Sat Mar 20 2010