highaltitude.log.20100313

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[09:32] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:35] <juxta> morning jcoxon
[09:35] <Randomskk> hi
[09:37] <jcoxon> mmmm finally a good internet connection
[09:37] Action: jcoxon is back at home
[09:37] Action: Randomskk goes home today
[09:37] <Randomskk> in doing so, I lose my good internet connection though :(
[09:38] <jcoxon> Randomskk, is term over?
[09:38] <Randomskk> jcoxon: yup.
[09:38] <jcoxon> seems earlier then usual
[09:38] <Randomskk> room almost all packed up and parents here in a few minutes
[09:38] <jcoxon> :-p
[09:38] <jcoxon> i miss 8 week terms
[09:38] <Randomskk> I think we had a shorter than usual winter vacation or so
[09:38] <Randomskk> yes, 8 week terms are fantastic
[09:39] <jcoxon> well i have 8 week placements but they run into each other
[09:39] <Randomskk> D:
[09:39] <jcoxon> oh well, nearly finished :-p
[09:39] <jonsowman> morning all
[09:40] <jonsowman> Randomskk: hows the packing
[09:41] <Randomskk> jonsowman: I got it pretty much all done by 2am
[09:41] <Randomskk> all that's left is stuff I couldn't pack before sleep
[09:41] <Randomskk> and my computer
[09:41] <Randomskk> same thing really then
[09:41] <jonsowman> lol nice
[09:41] <Randomskk> so, ntb
[09:41] <Randomskk> then proceeded to not get to sleep for hours and hours
[09:41] <jonsowman> sounds fun
[09:41] <jonsowman> how are you awake now exactly?
[09:41] <Randomskk> I am gonna crash massively when I get home I think
[09:42] <Randomskk> not really sure but I am quite awake for the time being
[09:42] <jonsowman> ha
[09:43] <Randomskk> you all packed up and ready to go?
[09:43] <jonsowman> yep
[09:43] <jonsowman> just a few bits to do when parents get here, ie. computer
[09:43] <Randomskk> yea
[09:44] <Randomskk> none of the lids fit on any of my boxes now, they are all overfull with stuff
[09:44] <jonsowman> lol
[09:44] <jonsowman> thats an issue
[09:44] <Randomskk> not that much of one though, they'll still go in the car
[09:44] <jonsowman> yeh
[09:45] <Randomskk> and a lot of stuff I'm leaving here, e.g. alcohol, massive glass collection
[09:54] <jcoxon> bbl
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[10:44] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
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[10:52] <jcoxon> morning rjharrison
[10:53] <rjharrison> HEY jcoxon
[10:53] <rjharrison> I have been busy thismorning stacking loggs for the fire
[10:53] <jcoxon> rjharrison, is there away for me to get data back from the ballasthalo 4 flight
[10:53] <rjharrison> A whole 23 1/2 wheel barrow loads :)
[10:53] <rjharrison> Yep I have it all :)
[10:53] <jcoxon> as in those who recevied strings etc
[10:54] <rjharrison> ~ date of launch?
[10:54] <jcoxon> 20/2/10
[10:54] <SpeedEvil> rjharrison: that's a big fire.
[10:55] <SpeedEvil> rjharrison: going into hot-air high altitude ballooning?
[10:56] <rjharrison> SpeedEvil :)
[10:56] <rjharrison> jcoxon http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/data/atlas-feb-2010
[10:56] <rjharrison> There are other launches at the bottom just top and tail what you need
[10:56] <rjharrison> Alt
[10:57] <jcoxon> rjharrison, great
[10:57] <rjharrison> ernativly one sec
[11:00] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/poll.php?missionid=85&format=HTML
[11:02] <jcoxon> hehe, i wanted the one before :-p
[11:02] <jcoxon> but thanks!
[11:10] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/poll.php?callsign=atlas&missionid=85&format=KML
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[11:10] <rjharrison> If you paste that into google maps you will get the track
[11:10] <jcoxon> didn't want the track :-p
[11:11] <jcoxon> wanted a list of those who had received data
[11:11] <rjharrison> Just showing off some of the new functionality
[11:11] <rjharrison> :-P
[11:11] <jcoxon> rjharrison, you need to list your mission ids :-p
[11:13] <rjharrison> +----------+
[11:13] <rjharrison> | userid |
[11:13] <rjharrison> +----------+
[11:13] <rjharrison> | M6JCX |
[11:13] <rjharrison> | alex |
[11:13] <rjharrison> | m6rjh |
[11:13] <rjharrison> | 2E0RJH |
[11:13] <rjharrison> | Callsign |
[11:13] <rjharrison> | G4FEV |
[11:13] <rjharrison> | M0RND |
[11:13] <rjharrison> | BICSTR |
[11:13] <rjharrison> | wilbert |
[11:13] <rjharrison> +----------+
[11:13] <rjharrison> :)
[11:14] <jcoxon> hehe
[11:14] <rjharrison> I know I know
[11:14] <jcoxon> bbl
[11:14] <rjharrison> I'm working on the stats pack
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[11:32] <rjharrison> http://pastebin.com/V7uTXsEu
[11:33] <rjharrison> Launches since keeping logs
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[11:56] <jcoxon> Randomskk, ping
[12:01] <sbasuita> jcoxon, http://code.google.com/p/dl-fldigi/issues/detail?id=2
[12:02] <jcoxon> hmmmm
[12:02] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[12:02] <jcoxon> i see the problem
[12:02] <jcoxon> yeah need to scrap dl info
[12:02] <jcoxon> its badly written
[12:02] <sbasuita> jcoxon, what's it meant to do?
[12:02] <jcoxon> well its meant to give feedback from teh server
[12:03] <jcoxon> so that crash wouldn't happen if you'd submitted a string
[12:03] <sbasuita> ah right
[12:03] <jcoxon> but to tell the truth its a load of crap
[12:03] <jcoxon> i'll disable it and then make it really work on version 2
[12:03] <sbasuita> jcoxon, are you going to move dl-fldigi into git?
[12:05] <jcoxon> perhaps
[12:06] <sbasuita> The forecast is still really bad ;(
[12:06] <jcoxon> yeah, we are having bad weather still
[12:13] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, but it says "Aborting fldigi..." but still segfaults?
[12:13] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, yeah that's called failing to fail
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[12:16] <gb73d> gm all does anyone have the frequency for the French Balloon ?
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[12:21] <jcoxon> gb73d, which balloon?
[12:23] <gb73d> http://www.southgatearc.org/news/march2010/french_ar_balloon.htm
[12:24] <jcoxon> oh right
[12:24] <gb73d> it says 144.390 on the description of telemetry page
[12:24] <gb73d> not 144.650 as on southgate news item
[12:25] <jcoxon> yeah onlineradio.fr says 144.390
[12:25] <gb73d> i have a aprs rig monitoring 144.390 now
[12:25] <jcoxon> its quite far away :-p
[12:31] <gb73d> tnx fer that French radio website
[12:32] <gb73d> it might come in at max altitude
[12:32] <jcoxon> gb73d, interesting to know
[12:32] <jcoxon> i don't have a 2m antenna so can't help out :-)
[12:33] <gb73d> will let u know if I hear anything
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> 144.39*3=433.17
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> 1/6th wave ant should work?
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> somewhat
[12:34] Action: SpeedEvil goes back out to garden.
[12:35] <jcoxon> bbl
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[12:36] <Laurenceb> sup
[12:36] Action: Laurenceb is working on RF layout for his autopilot board
[12:37] <Laurenceb> ends up rathe rlarge :( about 10mmx25
[12:37] <gb73d> im using a thd7e + maldol gdx50 discone in loft
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:39] <Laurenceb> I'm not sure how do to the sheilding
[12:39] <Laurenceb> probasbly just long pabs around it
[12:39] <Laurenceb> maybe 1mm wide? and solder on tin or copper sheet
[12:40] <Laurenceb> is stamped tin sheet usually used?
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> something like that, yes
[12:42] <Laurenceb> as long as its not magnetic - its fairly close to the magno
[12:42] <Laurenceb> bbl
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> or too close and conductive
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> effects on tuned circuits
[12:56] <gb73d> http://projetballon.free.fr/artemis/index.html
[12:57] <gb73d> looks like the ballon has taken off
[12:57] <gb73d> a track is appearing on there
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[13:12] <gb73d> that track doesnt seem to be changing
[13:17] <gb73d> i reckon its come down or the gps is broke
[13:18] <gb73d> its only gotne a few km
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[13:27] <gb73d> about 8km
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[16:39] <rjharrison> Ooh slow today
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[16:46] <fsphil> tis
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[17:01] Action: DanielRichman has an obscene amount of pvc piping & supportive bamboo
[17:02] <DanielRichman> s/has/has just acquired/
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> Oh.
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> I just pulled down my old FM antenna
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> And I forgot it was bamboo
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> It's been up there maybe 10 years.
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> Just one unpainted bit of bamboo with two crossmembers made from old IC tubes, and 4 radials.
[17:03] <DanielRichman> Well, I was thinking of putting the supporting bambooness inside the pvc to protect it, but now it sounds like that won't even be necessary
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> http://www.signalengineering.com/ultimate/verticals.html
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> that
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> paint and it'll be fine.
[17:06] <DanielRichman> Was planning to make a slim jim
[17:06] <DanielRichman> drill a couple of holes in pvc, thread wire through, job done
[17:06] <DanielRichman> I'll be taking this 40mm x 2m pipe on the school bus :D
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[17:08] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, why do you connect via tor?
[17:09] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/data/
[17:09] <rjharrison> This is a list of all launches in the database todate
[17:10] <rjharrison> going to have a go at producing some nice stats
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: I don't.
[17:14] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, but... your hostmask?
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: I was at some point in the very distant past running a tor exit node for a couple od days.
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> This got my IP on the list of tor exit nodes that was barred on freenode.
[17:15] <DanielRichman> So they force you to have a tor hostmask?
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> After I stopped, I stuill couldn't connect to freenode, and this cloadk was the easiest way for stafgg to make it work
[17:15] <DanielRichman> Ah, I see
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> staff
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> I haven't bothered attempting to get another cloak.
[17:16] <DanielRichman> Fair enough
[17:16] <DanielRichman> I was curious 'cause you didn't strike me as the paranoid type
[17:21] Action: fsphil beats autotools about a bit with a large stick
[17:22] <DanielRichman> I couldn't agree more fsphil
[17:23] <fsphil> it just seems to fall to bits for the least little thing
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[17:41] Nick change: Xenion -> RobertB
[17:41] <Randomskk> hey guys
[17:42] <Randomskk> my current yagi is made of a bit of PVC piping and some 4mm diameter anodised aluminium rods inserted into holes drilled in it then epoxied in place
[17:42] <SpeedEvil> how long?
[17:42] <Randomskk> homebase sell some nice aluminium angle pieces in a range of sizes that seem like they could make some lovely antennas out of, with one long angle piece as the boom and then smaller angle pieces bolted in place at appropriate positions
[17:42] <SpeedEvil> and what diameter?
[17:43] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: the current one is seven elements and about 1.3m or so? with about 25mm diameter PVC pipe
[17:44] <SpeedEvil> I'd say it should be fine.
[17:44] <Randomskk> however the current one has several elements somewhat out of alignment and generally looks a bit tacky, plus the driven element consists of folded anodised aluminium which has the serious disadvantage of being the hardest thing ever to solder to
[17:44] <SpeedEvil> ah
[17:44] <Randomskk> also it's got 5m of meh-quality coax soldered straight onto it
[17:44] <Randomskk> nicer would be a BNC or N plug on the yagi
[17:44] <Randomskk> I have some nicer coax now which I could put appropriate plugs onto
[17:46] <Randomskk> but I don't know if angle pieces are really great for yagis or whether rods are better, or how I would attach the driven element (or what I would make it out of) if the rest used angle pieces
[17:46] <Randomskk> it seems like some M6 bolts could hold the passive elements in place really nicely and the whole thing would be quite rigid and durable plus correctly aligned and better positioned, not to mention with a hopefully superior driven element, balun and some kind of connector
[17:47] <Randomskk> in addition the angle pieces look about long enough to make two or more yagis from the length you buy, so I could stack 'em
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[17:48] <Randomskk> wb jonsowman
[17:48] <jonsowman> hi Randomskk
[17:48] <jonsowman> i hate windows sometimes.
[17:50] <jonsowman> hmm the timezone on this server is wrong
[17:50] <jonsowman> unless it actually is nearly 9pm
[17:50] <Randomskk> nope it is not
[17:50] <jonsowman> good
[17:50] <Randomskk> though my radio synced clock at home is five minutes off from my other radio synced clock that I got from john lewis
[17:50] <Randomskk> both disagree with my NTP-synced computer clock
[17:50] <jonsowman> hmm
[17:51] <jonsowman> disappointing
[17:51] <fsphil> ooh that's odd
[17:51] <Randomskk> yes, it is
[17:51] <Randomskk> the one from john lewis is only a little bit off
[17:51] <fsphil> my radio clock matches perfectly with my ntp'ed server
[17:51] <Randomskk> the other one is significantly wrong
[17:51] <Randomskk> I suspect it might need new batteries perhaps
[17:51] <jonsowman> hmm yeh
[17:53] <fsphil> silly lcd screen though - can't see it clearly from the front, only from above
[17:53] <DanielRichman> My radio synced clock & watch are perfectly in sync but they disagree with my NTP synced pc by about 1 second
[17:54] <fsphil> I'm tempted to build an MSF receiver some of these days, to sync the server
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> My radio clock also matches with ntp
[17:54] <Randomskk> I suspect the second is down to the MSF being a bit slow
[17:54] <Randomskk> I tried receiving MSF at one point on my ic7000
[17:54] <Randomskk> failed
[17:55] <Randomskk> this clock has always been a bit shit, I suspect a dodgy clock
[17:55] <fsphil> I was able to receive it with my video capture card -- it has an ADC that can do 192000hz
[17:55] <Randomskk> nice
[17:55] <fsphil> or 896000hz
[17:56] <DanielRichman> That's weird... re my last comment; my radio watch & clock are actually perfectly in sync with the ntp linux server box... and my desktop is *meant* to sync to that box (they're connected by an Ethernet cable & router) yet the desktop is 1 second out (!)
[17:56] <fsphil> was able to get longwave stations too, and the DRM trial that RTE radio did on 252khz
[17:57] <Randomskk> soundcards for VLF etc are apparently quite popular
[17:57] <Randomskk> LF, VLF, ELF etc are all quite fun
[17:57] <Randomskk> ELF especially is amusing
[17:57] <Randomskk> a dipole is a significant proportion of the earth's diameter
[17:57] <fsphil> they are -- heard a could of whistles through this setup but very weak
[17:59] <fsphil> brb, doggie duties
[17:59] <Randomskk> hmm making this yagi out of angles is really tempting
[17:59] <Randomskk> it would be much more rigid and nicer than the current one
[17:59] <Randomskk> but I still dunno how I'd mount the driven element or if it's worth it over my current one
[17:59] <Randomskk> it'd be lighter too
[18:00] <Randomskk> angle pieces should work just as well as antenna elements as rods, right?
[18:00] Action: SpeedEvil ponders.
[18:00] <jonsowman> sheevaplug bootloader upgraded...
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> I _think_ so.
[18:01] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: I'm imagining bolting one flat of the elements to a flat of the boom, such that I then have the other flat standing up perpendicular to the boom
[18:01] <Randomskk> not sure that an angle piece is ideal for the boom in that it makes it asymmetric and the bit that's not being bolted to is totally pointless
[18:02] <Randomskk> a box section would be better
[18:02] <Randomskk> but I can't see it making much practical difference
[18:02] <Randomskk> obviously antenna calculations would need to take into account electrical connectivity between the boom and elements, but that's not an issue
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[18:14] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yeh good point about the driven elem
[18:14] <jonsowman> not easy to bend
[18:14] <Randomskk> angle pieces would be the hardest thing to bend ever
[18:14] <Randomskk> they do not want to bend
[18:14] <jonsowman> nope
[18:15] <Randomskk> http://www.k7mem.150m.com/Electronic_Notebook/antennas/yagi_vhf.html seems nice
[18:15] <Randomskk> I plugged in a 1.5m yagi, which is the kind of length it suggests for 434mhz, and it comes up with an 8 element deal
[18:15] Action: SpeedEvil remembers bending corrugated iron sheet the wrong way.
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> Fun.
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> Lots of hammering.
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> And jumping on.
[18:15] <jonsowman> Randomskk: 33 element 70cms
[18:15] <jonsowman> awesome
[18:16] <Randomskk> 11.78dBd gain, 10 elements total with 8 directors
[18:16] <Randomskk> we get 37degrees horizontal and 39 degrees vertical
[18:16] <jonsowman> thats prettygood
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[18:16] <Randomskk> it even suggests stacking distance for combinig two
[18:16] <Randomskk> though it is hard to convince myself that two are required or worthwhile
[18:17] <Randomskk> it would be nice to get crazy high S-meter readings of course
[18:17] <Randomskk> but location and altitude is going to be more important
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> you would knock down the vertical beam a bit
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> I suppose performance into the noise with it falling out of view would mean another few seconds lock
[18:19] <Randomskk> but sadly that's about it
[18:19] <Randomskk> making a collapsible mast that could elevate it some ten or twenty meters and rotate it and maybe even hold it in place doing so would be a much better use of metal than making two yagis
[18:19] <Randomskk> but putting two stacked yagis on top of such a mast would be quite fun
[18:19] <SpeedEvil> heavier though
[18:19] <SpeedEvil> but wind may be more of an issue anyway
[18:19] <Randomskk> true
[18:20] <Randomskk> ideally some kind of base that could suport it would be required then
[18:20] <Randomskk> not sure what would be suitable there
[18:21] <Randomskk> it does seem like non-metallic booms are generally better in that they do not affect the EM properties of the elements
[18:21] <Randomskk> but of course are less sturdy
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> fibreglass isn't
[18:25] <Randomskk> isn't less sturdy or isn't better than metal?
[18:25] <Randomskk> it would be nice.
[18:25] <Randomskk> harder to work with and acquire in suitable forms though
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> isn't really less sturdy
[18:26] <Randomskk> true
[18:27] <jonsowman> sheevaplug installing debian...
[18:27] Action: jonsowman watches progress bar
[18:29] <jonsowman> top
[18:29] <jonsowman> oops
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[18:43] Action: SpeedEvil has the debian chroot on the n900.
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> fun
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[19:05] <natrium42> 45 people, cool
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> 44 (at most)
[19:13] <natrium42> bots are people too :(
[19:14] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[19:15] <LazyLeopard> 43 idlers. ;)
[19:15] <natrium42> http://www.sporcle.com/games/moogles/programlanguages
[19:15] <natrium42> only got 16 out of 25 :/
[19:17] <Randomskk> ah sporcle
[19:18] <Randomskk> they have loads of fun quizzes
[19:18] <Randomskk> smalltalk is not on the list :(
[19:18] <natrium42> forth is also missing
[19:18] <Randomskk> ASP is missing too
[19:18] Action: Randomskk has 4:30 left to get the last ten
[19:18] <LazyLeopard> I doubt APL features either...
[19:19] <Randomskk> and only visual basic, no other forms seem to be on there
[19:19] Action: Randomskk is also at 16
[19:19] <Randomskk> probably missing some obvious ones though
[19:19] <Randomskk> ML is missing?
[19:20] <natrium42> :)
[19:20] <Randomskk> poor list
[19:20] <Randomskk> and no HDLs eitehr
[19:20] <natrium42> #7 is questionable
[19:20] <natrium42> is it even turing complete?
[19:20] Action: Randomskk hasn't got 7
[19:20] <natrium42> actually it might be...
[19:21] <Randomskk> woo 18
[19:21] <natrium42> niice :)
[19:21] <Randomskk> ada isn'mt there D:
[19:21] <natrium42> you can do it
[19:21] <natrium42> yeah, i also tried ada
[19:23] <Randomskk> nor erlang
[19:23] <Randomskk> disappointing
[19:23] <Randomskk> I see
[19:23] <Randomskk> I missed SQL, Delphi, Objective C, PAscal, ColdFusion, Tcl and Haskell
[19:23] <natrium42> yeah, i can't believe i missed haskell
[19:23] <Randomskk> I argue against SQL, coldfusion is annoying, and yea I shoul dhave got haskell and tcl
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[19:44] <fsphil> haha, just found my first linux cd -- redhat 4.2
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[19:53] <LazyLeopard> Oh boy. I've got a bunch of Slackware floppies somewhere...
[19:53] <LazyLeopard> I moved to RedHat 3.0.3 when I tired of Slackware...
[19:55] <fsphil> ooh I can imagine what that was like !
[20:04] <LazyLeopard> Back then my Net connection was dial-up, so I downloaded the floppy images at work, and spent an evening or three installing the system. I wouldn't reccommend the process... ;)
[20:05] <LazyLeopard> Kernel 0.99.15
[20:05] <LazyLeopard> ...or was it 0.99.13? I unremember
[20:05] <fsphil> I can't remember the kernel that rh 4.2 used. hmm
[20:06] <fsphil> but I've downloaded a few iso's over dialup -- remember downloading for days
[20:06] <LazyLeopard> Yeah. I used to buy CDs because it was cheaper than keeping the phone online...
[20:08] <fsphil> hehe yep, bought a few disks from the linux emporium too. I wonder where they are...
[20:09] <fsphil> Have to admit, wasn't a big fan of linux back then
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[20:26] <DanielRichman> http://www.m0ukd.com/Calculators/Slim_Jim/index.php suggests 1.51m 3/4 section for a Slim Jim, but quite a few other sources are giving more like 1.48m. Is this critical/is that calculator wrong?
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[20:42] <SpeedEvil> Generally not measurable.
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> 3cm in 1.5m
[20:44] <Laurenceb> helloi
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[20:44] Action: Laurenceb is getting annoyed by eagle
[20:45] <Laurenceb> it doesnt like my rf sheild
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> :/
[20:45] <Laurenceb> should have used open source from the start
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> just call it another layer?
[20:46] <Laurenceb> i had to stick a smd pad over the top of it
[20:46] <Laurenceb> to allow it to be defined at ground
[20:46] <Laurenceb> not the drc says thats a collision
[20:46] <g0mjw> Eagle is excellent for PCB design.
[20:47] <g0mjw> There is always kircad if you don't like it
[20:48] <DanielRichman> Rough-velocity factor of 1.6mm/16SWG tinned copper wire?
[20:50] <Laurenceb> oh I know
[20:50] <Laurenceb> just ground flood then draw a line with no solder mask
[20:50] <g0mjw> Kicad...
[20:50] <Laurenceb> thats a much easier way to do it
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[21:15] <DanielRichman> I swear noone bothers with a balun for their slim jims... if google images is anything to go by
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> I used the above linked one - for which no balun is needed, as it's the right impedence.
[21:21] <DanielRichman> So... If I find the correct matching point a balun isn't necessary?
[21:21] <DanielRichman> (on a slim jim?)
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.signalengineering.com/ultimate/verticals.html
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> I've used the vertical with radials with good effect.
[21:31] <DanielRichman> hmm
[21:32] <DanielRichman> ok
[21:45] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, did you ever test your yagi/
[21:45] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, no -.-
[21:45] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, so it might just not work
[21:46] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, :D
[21:49] <fsphil> think positive!
[21:49] <fsphil> :)
[21:54] <sbasuita> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2SDtDwymoY
[21:54] <sbasuita> admit that you love it
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[22:01] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[22:07] Nick change: Jos -> jos
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[23:07] <DanielRichman> ping jonsowman
[23:08] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: man, the predictions for next week are even worse than last week
[23:09] <Randomskk> "bam! fuck you, straight into the channel"
[23:09] <DanielRichman> :D
[23:09] <DanielRichman> glug glug glug
[23:09] <Randomskk> going for 35km burst?
[23:09] <DanielRichman> I'll tell AlexBreton to put the launch date back; he's adamant that it should be the 21st until we're ABSOLUTELY sure that it's not a "good idea"
[23:09] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, iirc yes
[23:09] <Randomskk> cool
[23:10] <Randomskk> 21st isn't on the weekly predictions yet though?
[23:10] <Randomskk> I mean it's probably going to be shit but wait until the friday or saturday to make the call
[23:10] <Randomskk> it can get quickly better
[23:10] <DanielRichman> hmm ok
[23:11] <Randomskk> hmm
[23:11] <Randomskk> I'd probably be able to assist tracking but jon and I won't be able to chase on the 21st
[23:11] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, you might know; was going to ask jonsowman - the slim jim he built doesn't *appear* to have a balun in the photos - is it required?
[23:11] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, we'll be chasing in sbasuita's dad's car I believe
[23:11] <Randomskk> the more the merrier apparently; jonsowman wants to go chasing if he can at some point these holidays
[23:11] <DanielRichman> holidays?
[23:11] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I don't know about his but in general there are plenty of times when baluns are not needed
[23:12] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: we are on vacation for five weeks
[23:12] <DanielRichman> ah!
[23:12] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, if a balun is required - should it be placed just below the feedpoint, or below the "free" slim jim area?
[23:12] <natrium42> just ask jcoxon for better weather
[23:12] <natrium42> he can do it
[23:12] <DanielRichman> And yeah, I read some sites claiming it requires a balanced feed, and others saying that it requires no balun in order to get the "appearance" of a ground plane or something
[23:12] <DanielRichman> Probably a horribly deformed quote w/o original meaning
[23:12] <DanielRichman> natrium42, really?
[23:13] <natrium42> apparently
[23:15] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: actually iirc jonsowman had a choke balun for this
[23:15] <Randomskk> e.g. winding the coax around some former
[23:16] <Randomskk> it would be in the free space just below the antenna but as close to it as possible.
[23:16] <DanielRichman> so just below feed point?
[23:16] <DanielRichman> and at 144MHz what diameter of former & number of turns is appropriate?
[23:16] <DanielRichman> (the internet has given me many conflicting claims on that).
[23:17] <Randomskk> I can't find anywhere that is backed up by anywhere else online, let me check a reference a sec
[23:21] <Randomskk> some description of balun is definitely going to be required
[23:21] <Randomskk> a choke balun definitely appears to be the most commonly recommended type
[23:21] <Randomskk> this thing is still loading from my server
[23:22] <DanielRichman> hmm
[23:22] <DanielRichman> Perhaps when I tune it I can test different balun locations / no balun
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> No balun tends to lead to wierd shit
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> you get standing waves in the feedline
[23:25] <DanielRichman> tasty
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> which means it works wonderfully at 144.2MHz, and not at all at 144.4
[23:25] <DanielRichman> ok so balun is a must. now... need to think about diam, no. of turns and where
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> Unless you make a matched antenna of course
[23:26] <DanielRichman> slim jim... ?
[23:26] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I read "3 turns of the feed coax rolled into a coil about 8" diameter" for 2m
[23:26] <Randomskk> from a reliable source, i.e. the ARRL textbook
[23:27] <DanielRichman> does the ARRL textbook have a slim jim section?
[23:27] <DanielRichman> / does it mention the location of the balun?
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: I assume you don't have a swr metere/
[23:27] <DanielRichman> (Randomskk thanks btw :P)
[23:27] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, I will use one to tune it
[23:27] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, will nag the local club
[23:27] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: it does not specify where the balun should be located
[23:28] <Randomskk> also it does not mention slim jims per se, but instead j-poles
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> you want it close to the antenna though
[23:28] <Randomskk> j-poles are to slim jims as normal dipoles are to folded dipoles
[23:28] <Randomskk> yea, as close as possible but doesn't need to be right there
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> The inductance of the balun needs to be large compared to 50 ohms.
[23:28] <Randomskk> the point of a choke balun is to stop the braid radiating so the less braid after the balun the better
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> I would say under 1/20th wavelength
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> or you will get wierd effects from the bit before the balun radiating
[23:29] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: do 3 turns of coax and if it's really shit SWR do more, three should be fine though
[23:29] <Randomskk> jonsowman: what did you use?
[23:29] <DanielRichman> http://www.hamuniverse.com/slimjim.html - mentions a required "free space" below the antenna
[23:30] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: free of other metal and ground
[23:30] <Randomskk> put the balun as close to the feed point as you can
[23:30] <jonsowman> tbh the jim seems to perform without a choke
[23:30] <Randomskk> ultimately the choke is just stopping the braid radiating but it should perform better with
[23:30] <DanielRichman> read this: http://forums.qrz.com/showpost.php?p=1275333&postcount=12
[23:30] <jonsowman> yup
[23:31] <Randomskk> interesting
[23:31] <DanielRichman> that's what gave me cause for concern
[23:31] <Randomskk> that would appear to slightly contradict the ARRL book but not significantly
[23:31] <Randomskk> he should know what he's talking about
[23:32] <Randomskk> you could certainly try putting the choke at that lower point
[23:33] <jonsowman> 2 secs, server switching...
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[23:34] <jonsowman> back :)
[23:34] <DanielRichman> Oh my days... being a metric person, I wanted to know what "8 inches" was in cm, so I turned to google
[23:34] <DanielRichman> !8 inches
[23:34] <DanielRichman> (how do you get zeusbot to respond?)
[23:34] <DanielRichman> EIther way - it was a bad idea
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:34] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, did you actually use a choke in the end then?
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> ask it 8 inches in cm
[23:34] <Randomskk> so are you suggesting to not google for "8 inches"
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> that works
[23:35] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: there is currently no choke on it
[23:35] <Randomskk> I would suggest wolframalpha.com for anything along those lines, but certainly googling "8 inches in cm" should work
[23:35] <DanielRichman> SpeedEvil, it gave me the answers but the website results below it made me facepalm.
[23:35] <jonsowman> it seemed to make SWR worse so I removed it
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:35] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, okey. I will do some testing when the time cometh
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> jonsowman: did you measure at more than one frequency?
[23:35] <jonsowman> i measured it in the 2m amateur band
[23:36] <jonsowman> didnt really care outside of that
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> I had a dttv ariel that had no balun - and would pick up random combinations of channels.
[23:36] <jonsowman> SpeedEvil: interesting
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> Depending on the precise position and orientation of the downloead
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> downlead
[23:36] <DanielRichman> I'll see if I can get hold of the g4bra dude that has a Minivna analyser
[23:36] <DanielRichman> that'll make checking if it's being crazy specific to one channel easy
[23:36] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: I don't think a choke will make a significant difference to performace
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> In some cases, it's a huge difference.
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> If it's gonna be a problem is a hugely complex sum.
[23:37] <DanielRichman> On a related note: RG58 or some other lower loss coax that I will probably end up using + rain = problem?
[23:39] <Randomskk> should be okay
[23:39] <Randomskk> make sure the part where you turn coax into connections to antenna is waterproofed I guess though, you don't wanna get water inside the coax or shorting the shield and centre
[23:41] <DanielRichman> The antenna element wiring will be on the outside of the pvc but I plan to have the coax go up the middle and then out of two 2mm holes; which I'll then seal with epoxy
[23:41] <DanielRichman> and + cap on the top
[23:41] <Randomskk> should be okay
[23:44] <Randomskk> ARRL book has interesting plans for quagis, a yagi with a quad driven and reflector but normal dipole directors
[23:45] <DanielRichman> I've ordered the intermediate&advanced rsgb books, by the way :)
[23:45] <Randomskk> cool
[23:45] <DanielRichman> And the person running the school's amateur radio club wants to buy an 817 for our base station...
[23:46] <Randomskk> good little radio
[23:46] <DanielRichman> indeed. I want one... but a 5 watt base station?
[23:47] <Randomskk> if you're just using it for training things like local repeaters and simplex vhf you don't need much more
[23:47] <Randomskk> plus it's cheap and easy
[23:47] <Randomskk> well
[23:47] <Randomskk> a bigger radio would be easier to use
[23:47] <Randomskk> but really expensive
[23:48] <DanielRichman> Personally, yes, I'd choose the 817
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[23:49] <DanielRichman> But the antennas at the school, as far as I can see, arn't great. Wouldn't they be better off with an 857?
[23:50] <fsphil> relatively cheap
[23:50] <Randomskk> eh, it's nicer and does more than the 817 but it's still a small mobile radio
[23:50] <Randomskk> if they're not planning to do DX at school then eh
[23:50] <DanielRichman> ahh well. That's the thing
[23:50] <DanielRichman> currently their kit only goes up to ~70MHz
[23:50] <DanielRichman> and while they won't get rid of it and replace it with the 817 they seem to be the DX type
[23:51] <Randomskk> ah
[23:51] <Randomskk> the 817's not going to be fantastic for DX unless you like QRP DX
[23:51] <DanielRichman> indeed
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[00:00] --- Sun Mar 14 2010