highaltitude.log.20100309

[00:04] <natrium42> good, how are you?
[00:05] <jonsowman> yeh not too bad thanks, watching a rather boring lecture
[00:09] <jonsowman> super-quick writeup of the ferret tracker here:
[00:09] <jonsowman> http://www.hexoc.com/wb/pages/ferret.php
[00:09] <jonsowman> if anyone's interested :)
[00:13] <natrium42> coolz
[00:15] <natrium42> i like ghetto builds :D
[00:16] <jonsowman> this one was pretty fun, took 6 hours ish
[00:26] <jonsowman> natrium42: what are your plans with the web tracker?
[00:26] <natrium42> adding backend interface to create launches etc
[00:26] <natrium42> and a rewrite
[00:27] <jonsowman> sounds good, would definitely be interested in helping with that
[00:27] <jonsowman> if you need a hand
[00:27] <jonsowman> i think adam has said the same
[00:29] <jonsowman> anyway let me know how its going and if i can do anything to help :)
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[00:30] <natrium42> yeah, sure
[00:30] <rjharrison> evening all
[00:30] <jonsowman> hi rjharrison
[00:30] <natrium42> i will just start a github project soonish
[00:30] <natrium42> and add anybody who wants to help
[00:30] <jonsowman> natrium42: sounds good :)
[00:30] <Randomskk> <3 github
[00:30] <natrium42> :)
[00:30] <rjharrison> Hey natrium I'm really likeing the tracker these days
[00:30] <scotty> I am trying to have a picture in my projects page code : {{projects:IMG_1687.JPG}}
[00:30] <scotty> it wont work :(
[00:31] <scotty> trying to use image from my desktop
[00:31] <rjharrison> scotty noice launch btw
[00:31] <scotty> cheers
[00:31] <natrium42> rjharrison, :)
[00:31] <scotty> new pics are up. link on my ORion page
[00:31] <rjharrison> How come the gps was so off at the end
[00:31] <Randomskk> rjharrison: code error
[00:31] <scotty> yeah
[00:31] <Randomskk> the part after the decimal point was negative
[00:31] <natrium42> rjharrison, for prediction i need to get the dataset manually right now
[00:31] <Randomskk> but bring printed as unsigned
[00:31] <rjharrison> hehe
[00:31] <natrium42> rjharrison, so just let me know before you launch
[00:32] <Randomskk> scotty: how did your sms gps system fare?
[00:32] <rjharrison> natrium42 sure
[00:32] <scotty> can someone help me with implemnting this : {{projects:IMG_1687.JPG}} into my page
[00:32] <scotty> SMS GPS system was perfect
[00:32] <scotty> came on when payload came down
[00:32] <rjharrison> If wx is good I'll call it Friday am UTH
[00:32] <natrium42> :)
[00:32] <scotty> i just used the wrong foramt in my hand held gps
[00:32] <scotty> silly me
[00:32] <scotty> was so tried though
[00:32] <Randomskk> aah, okay
[00:32] <Randomskk> fair enough, yea
[00:32] <rjharrison> scotty that put it in the layby and I thought it was on the field
[00:33] <scotty> yeah i thought so to
[00:33] <Randomskk> btw scotty did you see http://www.hexoc.com/wb/pages/ferret.php ?
[00:33] <Randomskk> jonsowman whipped it up, should explain what that box was doing
[00:33] <scotty> oh cheers :)
[00:33] <scotty> much appreicated
[00:33] <scotty> the ferret box is in the post to CUSE
[00:33] <Randomskk> bblish
[00:33] <Randomskk> cool, thanks
[00:33] <scotty> so anyone help me out on the {{projects:IMG_1687.JPG}}?
[00:34] <scotty> putting it in the wiki Orion page
[00:34] <rjharrison> Full link to page
[00:34] <rjharrison> I think you just need to uload the pic
[00:34] <scotty> huh?
[00:34] <scotty> ah how do i do that
[00:35] <jonsowman> rjharrison: http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:orion
[00:35] <scotty> all doku wiki says is {{wiki:dokuwiki-128.png}}
[00:35] <scotty> lol
[00:35] <scotty> (need to know wether to upload the pic to projects page or can i use a pic from my desktop)
[00:36] <rjharrison> click on the image icon and uload
[00:37] <scotty> awesome cheers
[00:37] <rjharrison> next to smily face :_
[00:37] <rjharrison> )
[00:37] <rjharrison> natrium42 I'v not got much further with xml form atm
[00:38] <rjharrison> Had some teenager problems over the weekend
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[00:38] <scotty> right : http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:orion done the page. its only a little at the mo but all the link to pics and the video are up
[00:38] <scotty> cheers guys once again!!
[00:39] <rjharrison> scotty cool
[00:39] <rjharrison> Anyhow you enjoyed the launch
[00:39] Action: natrium42 slaps scotty around a bit with JPEG artifacts http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:img_814.png?cache=cache
[00:40] <rjharrison> For the net one try to reduce the payload weight you'll go higher
[00:40] <jonsowman> natrium42: lol
[00:40] <natrium42> hrm
[00:40] <natrium42> so i guess the lesson is to keep camera lens outside
[00:41] <jonsowman> seems to work better doesnt it
[00:41] <rjharrison> ?
[00:41] <natrium42> yeah
[00:42] <rjharrison> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/4387329668/sizes/l/
[00:43] <rjharrison> This is icarus III in construction
[00:43] <jonsowman> rjharrison: nice!
[00:43] <rjharrison> I'm having the best of both
[00:43] <jonsowman> looking really good
[00:43] <scotty> NICE!
[00:43] <scotty> looks awesome Harrison
[00:43] <natrium42> rjharrison, are you going to take videos too?
[00:43] <SpeedEvil> rjharrison: painting the inside of the lens housing insulation flat black?
[00:43] <scotty> i used the same servo very good one!
[00:44] <rjharrison> futaba
[00:44] <rjharrison> natrium42 yep the usual
[00:44] <natrium42> k, cool
[00:44] <rjharrison> There is a bit of magick too
[00:44] <rjharrison> Should give some interesting video
[00:45] <jonsowman> rjharrison: how close are you to launching it?
[00:45] <rjharrison> Launch should generate about 30G of imagry
[00:46] <rjharrison> jonsowman this weekend if good wx
[00:46] <rjharrison> On a 1500 or possibly a 3000 if perfect wx
[00:46] <jonsowman> sounds good :)
[00:46] <natrium42> rjharrison, you are using a 32GB SD?
[00:46] <scotty> What altitude you going for??
[00:46] <rjharrison> I have one but no 2x16G
[00:47] <jonsowman> rjharrison: do you want the hourly predictions thing changed for your payload parameters?
[00:47] <rjharrison> Well I hope to beat my record if I send up the 3000g
[00:47] <rjharrison> jonsowman that would be good when I get the final stuff
[00:48] <rjharrison> Ie weights
[00:48] <rjharrison> 2xcamera
[00:48] <jonsowman> ok, let me know when you want it done
[00:48] <jonsowman> or whoever else is around
[00:48] <rjharrison> jonsowman thanks
[00:48] <rjharrison> natrium42 I lost a 32GB card last year
[00:49] <rjharrison> Thanksfully the supplier sent me a free one
[00:49] <jonsowman> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/
[00:49] <natrium42> rjharrison, whoops
[00:50] <jonsowman> landing in the channel at the moment!
[00:50] <jonsowman> where will you be launching rjharrison?
[00:50] <rjharrison> EARS
[00:50] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus3/Icarus%20III.JPG
[00:51] <rjharrison> bit big but this is the tracker for those who have not seen it
[00:51] <jonsowman> wow
[00:51] <jonsowman> very nice indeed
[00:51] <rjharrison> big as in file size
[00:51] <rjharrison> it about the size of a credit card irl
[00:51] <jonsowman> yup
[00:52] <jonsowman> whats the microcontroller?
[00:52] <rjharrison> atmega 238p
[00:52] <jonsowman> :)
[00:53] <rjharrison> jonsowman http://www.robertharrison.org/svn/filedetails.php?repname=the-icarus-project&path=%2FIcarus+III%2Feagle%2FIcarus+III%2FIcarus.pdf
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[00:54] <jonsowman> rjharrison: looks great, neat board
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[00:54] <jonsowman> where do you get the pcb made?
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[00:55] <scotty> back lol
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[00:56] <rjharrison> olimex
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[01:06] <scotty> any good programs to put a video into a circular picture
[01:07] <scotty> (want to use video clips to do a circumference of the earth
[01:07] <scotty> )
[01:12] <rjharrison> natrium42 is quite an expert on this
[01:17] <natrium42> heh
[01:17] <natrium42> scotty, http://www.autopano.net/en/
[01:17] <natrium42> is the best one
[01:17] <natrium42> the demo version puts some text, but you could photoshop it out...
[01:18] <natrium42> you could try the one by microsoft research which is free: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/groups/ivm/ICE/
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[01:19] <natrium42> i use virtual dub to take frames out of the video (each couple of frames)
[01:19] <scotty> cheers natrium!
[01:19] <natrium42> then just give those frames to autopano pro and it does everything else automagically
[01:19] <natrium42> np
[01:20] <scotty> nice
[01:25] <juxta> hi all
[01:25] <scotty> hopfully i will get a nice round circle
[01:25] <scotty> i should
[01:27] <scotty> hi juxta position lol
[01:29] <scotty> Hey natirum how do i set up virtual dub to take frames out every couple of frames
[01:29] <scotty> ...
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[01:34] <juxta> scotty: use file -> save image seq
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[01:40] <scotty> cool
[01:40] <juxta> you probably only want every 2nd frame or so as natrium said
[01:40] <juxta> or maybe every 5th
[01:41] <juxta> to pick that, go to video -> frame rate
[01:41] <juxta> then chose 'Decimate by' and enter say 5
[01:41] <juxta> that will process only every 5th frame
[01:46] <scotty> loading now :)
[01:46] <scotty> auto pan is doing its thing
[01:47] <natrium42> :)
[01:47] <scotty> umm cant save in auto pan
[01:47] <scotty> (pics look amazing though)
[01:47] <natrium42> not the project
[01:47] <natrium42> but you can render it to a png
[01:47] <scotty> humm how
[01:48] <juxta> hey natrium42, the landing predicition in the tracker was very close
[01:48] <juxta> in fact it may have been correct
[01:49] <natrium42> scotty, View -> Render
[01:49] <juxta> but the payload got dragged along a very long way as the balloon hadnt burst
[01:49] <natrium42> juxta, hehe, at least i was able to find two bugs during the mission :D
[01:49] <juxta> :)
[01:49] <juxta> thanks for all your help yesterday
[01:49] <natrium42> ascent rate wasn't being averaged correctly
[01:49] <natrium42> sure thing
[01:49] <juxta> it was really hectic, bad day for launching
[01:50] <juxta> here's where we recovered it:
[01:50] <juxta> http://tinyurl.com/ydu5swm
[01:50] <natrium42> yeah, guess you have learnt a lesson :D
[01:50] <natrium42> ah, i see it travelled a bit further than jackson road
[01:50] <juxta> if those tree's hadn't stopped it, it probably would have gone north further and wound up in the river
[01:50] <juxta> jackson 'road'
[01:51] <natrium42> did you salvage the balloon?
[01:51] <scotty> i have view: toolbars, split left right no view render :(
[01:51] <juxta> that was a horrible, horrible road
[01:51] <juxta> we tried to natrium42, but it was insanely windy & we were in the middle of the trees
[01:51] <juxta> a gust of wind eventually blew it into the trees and popped it
[01:51] <scotty> might be doing it now tbh
[01:51] <natrium42> scotty did you click the edit button of the group?
[01:51] <natrium42> juxta, ouch
[01:52] <natrium42> wow, i got a better stitching for you juxta
[01:52] <natrium42> using 7 images XD
[01:52] <juxta> i went all the way up jackson road, found no balloon, so turned around and went back along glenburr road - not ideal roads unless you have a 4WD, which I don't
[01:53] <scotty> im in edit settings
[01:53] <juxta> oh awesome, thanks natrium42 - I forgot to mention the other day, I have loads more pics if you want to see them
[01:53] <juxta> I only put a few up
[01:53] <juxta> I have autopanopro installed, I should have a crack
[01:53] <juxta> I havent used it in a long time
[01:54] <scotty> u have a crack that could help :)
[01:54] <scotty> if u dont mind sharing or telling me where one is
[01:54] <scotty> pics look awesome on autopan
[01:56] <natrium42> juxta, yeah, you should be able to stitch a full frame
[01:56] <natrium42> it's nice that autopano supports png transparency
[01:57] <scotty> hey natium i have rendered the pic
[01:57] <scotty> now how do i get the .png
[01:57] <scotty> view render doesnt work
[01:58] <natrium42> eh? you don't have View -> Render ?
[01:58] <scotty> yeah i am in that now
[01:59] <natrium42> juxta, http://spacenear.us/temp/horus/stitching3.png
[01:59] <natrium42> you can do it
[01:59] <scotty> oh i got it
[01:59] <natrium42> scotty, hrm
[01:59] <juxta> wow, nice work natrium42
[01:59] <natrium42> make sure to select png
[01:59] <natrium42> no need to add extra compression
[01:59] <juxta> I'll def load up the rest into autopano and see how we go
[01:59] <scotty> I got the pic
[01:59] <scotty> would love to get rid of the words though...
[01:59] <natrium42> juxta, yah, i love photo restoration
[01:59] <natrium42> :)
[01:59] <scotty> juxta do u know where the crack is?
[02:00] <natrium42> scotty, you can get rid of them for $$$ :)
[02:00] <natrium42> or maybe they can be photoshopped out...
[02:00] <natrium42> maybe that free microsoft research tool will work ok
[02:00] <natrium42> i never tried it
[02:01] <juxta> I got mine ages ago, I remember it being like 30 or 40 dollars
[02:01] <scotty> ah cool
[02:01] <scotty> fair does
[02:01] <juxta> it's 199 now though aparantly?
[02:01] <juxta> 199 euro actually
[02:01] <scotty> ouch
[02:01] <natrium42> is that for the giga version?
[02:01] <juxta> oh yeah
[02:01] <natrium42> you only need the pro
[02:01] <juxta> thats the giga one
[02:01] <natrium42> but it is very nice software
[02:01] <juxta> i best have a shower
[02:01] <juxta> back soon
[02:01] <natrium42> later
[02:02] <natrium42> yeah, the pro version is EUR 99
[02:02] <scotty> using microsoft one now
[02:03] <natrium42> once you have the panorama, you can easily create a polar view using photoshop polar filter
[02:03] <natrium42> i can tell you how once you're at that point
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[02:11] <scotty> i am at that point
[02:11] <scotty> how do u make it polar view?
[02:11] <scotty> i dont have photo dop
[02:11] <scotty> shop
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[02:41] <scotty> night guys
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[06:45] <MikeMc68> morning
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[07:13] <MikeMc68> ping juxta
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[08:53] <MikeMc68> morning
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[10:02] <Mikemc_mobile> Hello
[10:02] <Mikemc_mobile> Topic needs to be changed
[10:03] <Mikemc_mobile> Still got the Orion launch
[10:08] <juxta> hey mike_jh_
[10:09] <juxta> i mean MikeMc68
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[10:12] <Mikemc_mobile> Hey juxta
[10:13] <Mikemc_mobile> How are you?
[10:15] <Mikemc_mobile> Juxta
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[10:19] <AndChat-> Juxta what is that huge circular bay to the west?
[10:19] Nick change: AndChat- -> mikemc68_mobile
[10:20] <mikemc68_mobile> That was me
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[10:21] <mikemc68_mobile> Irc on mobile phones never works
[10:25] <mikemc68_mobile> Juxta?
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[10:42] <juxta> MikeMc68: still around? sorry, I got called away for a bit there
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100308132052.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Latest+Science+News%29&utm_content=Google+UK - funky. (using modulated beams to see through opaque stuff. Perhaps applications at RF too.
[11:32] <jonsowman> hi all
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> hi
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[11:38] <scottj> hihi
[11:38] <scottj> all
[11:38] <Randomskk> yo
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[11:41] <scottj> well good news my electronics department, wants to put my project in the news paper :)
[11:41] <Randomskk> nice
[11:41] <scottj> only thing is i need an image..autopan is great but cant get rid of the words :(
[11:41] <scottj> any ideas?
[11:41] <scottj> microsfot is ok but not as good
[11:41] <Randomskk> ?
[11:42] <scottj> microsoft's photo stitch
[11:42] <scottj> i mean
[11:42] <Randomskk> I like hugin for making stitched panoramas, but don't know if it will work for you
[11:43] <scottj> it worked half way then it wanted me to make connections :(
[11:43] <Randomskk> making them manually is not that bad
[11:43] <scottj> 50 pics though
[11:43] <Randomskk> I would try not stitching all 50 together
[11:44] <scottj> can i send u the auto pan pic
[11:44] <scottj> it looks really good
[11:44] <Randomskk> put it online somewhere - flickr etc are good
[11:44] <scottj> i dont want to put it online untill i get the words off it
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[14:09] <Mikemc68_mobile> Afternoon
[14:11] <jonsowman> hi Mikemc68_mobile
[14:11] <Mikemc68_mobile> Ping juxta
[14:11] <Mikemc68_mobile> Hey
[14:12] <Mikemc68_mobile> Sitting in a cafe in collingdale
[14:14] <Mikemc68_mobile> Anyone going to Hackspace tomorrow?
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[14:24] <Mikemc68_mobile> Disconnected
[14:26] <Mikemc68_mobile> Not much activity on here today
[14:26] <Mikemc68_mobile> Very quiet
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[15:32] <jonsowman> hi edmoore
[15:32] <jonsowman> whats going on with the lab?
[15:33] <edmoore> it's being demolished
[15:33] <edmoore> it's a total f**k-up from the department
[15:33] <jonsowman> hah yes we saw the lack of ceiling
[15:33] <edmoore> piss-up and brewery come to mind
[15:33] <jonsowman> so they havent found us a new one other than baker basement yet?
[15:34] <edmoore> no
[15:35] <jonsowman> :(
[15:35] <edmoore> the one we can't actully do anything in
[15:35] <jonsowman> yeh that's pretty unhelpful
[15:35] <edmoore> Iain and I have tried to find Philip Guildford a couple of times today but he's in a meeting all day
[15:35] <jonsowman> oh right :(
[15:36] <juxta> my boards from batchpcb came today, and amazingly they worked first go!
[15:36] <jonsowman> juxta: nice :)
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> juxta: congrats!
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> What were they again/
[15:36] <jonsowman> bbl
[15:37] <juxta> SpeedEvil: a flight board, similar to Rob's icarus boards
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> neat.
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> it's nice when non-trivial boards do that.
[15:37] <juxta> but with SD & 2 AVR's
[15:37] <edmoore> juxta: pics or it didn't happen
[15:37] <edmoore> badger1 worked first time too. I think the only time that's ever happened to me.
[15:37] <juxta> I'll grab some tomorrow, I'm going to go to bed now :)
[15:37] <edmoore> fergus and I nearly fainted and were super cautios for the rest of the week, assuming we'd used up all our karma
[15:37] <juxta> haha
[15:38] <juxta> the only thing that didn't work was my idea of writing a passthrough program from the AVR to the GPS
[15:38] <juxta> so that I could use the ublox software to configure it
[15:38] <juxta> well, at least the inital idea didn't work
[15:39] <juxta> I got it working in a really hackish way though - the AVR just bit bangs whatever logic signals it sees on the GPS pins to the uart
[15:40] <juxta> (if I'm even making sense, I'm really tired)
[15:40] <edmoore> pics pics pics
[15:40] <edmoore> oh it's pretty late for you isn't it
[15:40] <edmoore> or early, even
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[15:42] <juxta> ok i got you a pic edmoore ;p
[15:44] <edmoore> ta
[15:44] <juxta> edmoore: www.bogaurd.net/IMG_3434.jpg
[15:45] <edmoore> very pretty
[15:45] <juxta> have you used batchpcb before?
[15:45] <juxta> they sent me 2 boards
[15:46] <juxta> I thought I only paid for 1
[15:47] <edmoore> nope
[15:47] <edmoore> it's a bit slow and we've always been impatient
[15:47] <juxta> true, it's not the fastest
[15:48] <juxta> only thing I got wrong (besides changing my mind as to how I should make the board) was the silkscreen
[15:49] <juxta> I'm off to bed
[15:49] <juxta> night all
[15:50] <edmoore> see you
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[16:14] <Lunar_Lander> hey everybody
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[18:04] <scottj> hey guys
[18:04] <scottj> i put a new pic up on Orion project page
[18:05] <scottj> hope u guys like it!
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[18:16] <N900evil> liknk?
[18:16] <LazyLeopard> The panorama's cool. http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:orion
[18:17] <LazyLeopard> I think you might mean 35,000m rather than 35,000km though. ;)
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> well done scottj
[18:19] <Randomskk> scottj: I don't think it got to 35km
[18:19] <Randomskk> unless your GPS suggests otherwise?
[18:20] <Randomskk> panorama looks good
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> doesn't civilian GPS cut out at 24km?
[18:20] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: some modules do but not all of them
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:20] <Randomskk> the one in the tracker we duct taped to the side of his project did
[18:20] <Randomskk> but looking at the times when it regained lock and its ascent and decent rate jonsowman and I guessed about 28km
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:21] <Lunar_Lander> was the objective of the mission to take photos and video?
[18:21] <Randomskk> yea
[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> scottj people like the panorama ;)
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[18:48] <natrium42> scottj, you need to set the horizon in autopano
[18:48] <natrium42> then it will straighten it out
[18:49] <natrium42> and then you can scale it to a square in photoshop and then apply polar filter
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[19:07] <MikeMc68> juxta are you ignoring me ?
[19:10] <MikeMc68> i'll take that as a yes
[19:11] <scottj> i dont have photo shop lol
[19:11] <scottj> :(
[19:11] <MikeMc68> use gimp
[19:11] <scottj> at 5m/s acent at 2 hours till burst
[19:11] <scottj> it takes it to 37,000
[19:11] <scottj> so i choose 35,000 as a rough one
[19:11] <edmoore> MikeMc68: juxta isn't online as far as I can tell...
[19:11] <scottj> (i have gimp)
[19:12] <edmoore> it's 7am his time
[19:12] <scottj> What height did you think it got to then?
[19:12] <MikeMc68> so he isn't
[19:13] <scottj> oh ok 28km
[19:13] <scottj> :)
[19:13] <scottj> so say around 30km
[19:14] <ProjectCirrus> because as far as i know ascent rate isn't constant
[19:14] <scottj> yeah thats why i was like approx
[19:15] <edmoore> it is fairly constant
[19:15] <ProjectCirrus> lol i should keep my mouth shut!
[19:16] <edmoore> it's usually piecewise constant
[19:16] <edmoore> 2 sections
[19:16] <edmoore> a kink roughly half way up
[19:17] <ProjectCirrus> good to know
[19:17] <MikeMc68> scottj
[19:18] <edmoore> bad google
[19:18] <edmoore> http://artvb.oatmeal.dhs.org/Project/8/BalloonAscentMystery
[19:18] <ProjectCirrus> interesting also ed, our radio module is pretty much ready to test.. is there any way ew can do
[19:18] <ProjectCirrus> the test with a scanner
[19:18] <ProjectCirrus> listening for clicks or anything?
[19:19] <ProjectCirrus> or do we need the radio
[19:19] <edmoore> oh god sorry
[19:19] <edmoore> I've got so distracted
[19:19] <ProjectCirrus> :)
[19:19] <edmoore> I'd completely forgotten about the 790
[19:19] <edmoore> Jonathan - sorry
[19:19] <edmoore> that was crap of me
[19:19] <edmoore> OK, I will try and sort it first thing tomorrow
[19:19] <ProjectCirrus> lol the reaction was worth it!
[19:19] <ProjectCirrus> no worries
[19:20] <edmoore> on the scanner front
[19:20] <edmoore> is it an fm scanner?
[19:20] <ProjectCirrus> yes
[19:20] <edmoore> tricky
[19:20] <ProjectCirrus> no worries
[19:20] <edmoore> you can try and measure the noise
[19:20] <edmoore> actually that probably won't work
[19:20] <ProjectCirrus> if the radio comes in a couple of weeks we'll be grand
[19:21] <ProjectCirrus> possible first launch date around the 12th of april
[19:21] <edmoore> so 50-baud rtty is a carrier changing frequency 50 times a second, which to an fm decoder is like a 50-hz square wave. however most radios have an audio filter that cuts off the bottom 100hz as it's basically inaudiable
[19:22] <edmoore> so you wouldn't hear the 50hz fundamental but you might get some harmonics
[19:22] <ProjectCirrus> right,
[19:22] <ProjectCirrus> would only ever do as a function test in any case
[19:22] <ProjectCirrus> which i hope it does because it's a new chip
[19:22] <edmoore> so from an information theoretic point of view, the information is there. but to practically decode it without writing a bunch of DSP code, I think you're probably stuffed
[19:23] <ProjectCirrus> also fsphil is working with us, he's NI based as well
[19:23] <edmoore> ok cool
[19:23] <edmoore> I will get that radio sorted
[19:23] <ProjectCirrus> great
[19:23] <edmoore> oh sorry, didn't see your pms
[19:23] <edmoore> sorry
[19:24] <ProjectCirrus> wasn't sure if your irc client worked with them sso just went public!
[19:25] <ProjectCirrus> but frankly this irc channel is a bit like having a discussion around a dinner table
[19:25] <ProjectCirrus> everyone adds their bit
[19:26] <ProjectCirrus> and an occasional food projectile is launched
[19:26] <ProjectCirrus> ok gtg here anyway
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[19:30] Action: MikeMc68 throws a wet haddock at edmoore
[19:31] <edmoore> ouch
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[19:31] <MikeMc68> must have scared him off
[19:32] <edmoore> yup
[19:33] <edmoore> right, bbl
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[19:37] <edmoore> whoopsie
[19:38] Nick change: edmoore -> edmoore|away
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[19:49] <fsphil> ah dang, missed the conversation
[19:57] <scotty> i cant rotate this image flat its so annoying
[19:57] <scotty> can anyone help?
[19:58] <fsphil> what image?
[19:59] <scotty> http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/projects:show_pic.jpg?id=projects%3Aorion&cache=cache
[19:59] <scotty> can anyone do it for me, i've tried gimp and everything :(
[20:00] <fsphil> you're just trying to rotate it?
[20:00] <scotty> yeah im gimp and its not working
[20:00] <scotty> the edges don't line up
[20:00] <scotty> in gimp*
[20:00] <scotty> lol
[20:02] <fsphil> what angle?
[20:05] <fsphil> or are you trying to make the panorama in gimp?
[20:06] <fsphil> for that you'd be better using a program called hugin
[20:07] <scotty> i just want to make this image flat
[20:07] <scotty> :( striaghtened out can anyone do that?
[20:07] <fsphil> so the horizon appears flat?
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[20:17] <scotty> yeah!
[20:17] <scotty> how do u do tha
[20:17] <scotty> t
[20:17] <scotty> its annoying me :(
[20:21] <fsphil> are the original images handy?
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[20:56] Nick change: Jos -> jos
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[21:12] <natrium42> <scotty> i cant rotate this image flat its so annoying
[21:12] <natrium42> <-- use horizon tool in autopano...
[21:21] <MikeMc68> does anyone jave a link to scottyj's images please ?
[21:21] <MikeMc68> *have
[21:24] <sbasuita> MikeMc68, this? http://cid-f1685fe4901686f0.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Orion%20Flight%20Photos
[21:26] <natrium42> sbasuita, so....
[21:27] <sbasuita> natrium42, soon!
[21:27] <natrium42> Real Soon (TM)
[21:27] <sbasuita> natrium42, actually we were intending to get some preliminary dates set
[21:27] <natrium42> you have been telling me that for months :(
[21:27] <sbasuita> natrium42, :( sorry
[21:27] <natrium42> brb post
[21:28] <MikeMc68> thanks sbasuita
[21:28] <sbasuita> natrium42, we're actually Ready To Go (TM) (sans radio)
[21:28] <sbasuita> so it's just an organisational matter now and the weather of course
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[21:31] <DanielRichman> natrium42, pick a number
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:33] <sbasuita> Dx
[21:33] <sbasuita> Ö
[21:33] <DanielRichman> umlauts not allowed.
[21:34] <DanielRichman> gah (!)
[21:34] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, pick a number
[21:35] <MikeMc68> sbasuita what is your project name please ?
[21:35] <DanielRichman> ALIEN  ALtitude Imaging Entering Near-space http://alienproject.wordpress.com/
[21:35] <MikeMc68> ty
[21:35] <DanielRichman> will someone please pick a number :(
[21:36] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, 0
[21:36] <DanielRichman> hmm that'll do
[21:36] <fsphil> 42
[21:36] <sbasuita> why fsphil, just why
[21:36] <MikeMc68> 763
[21:36] <fsphil> it's *completely* random. honest!
[21:37] <DanielRichman> you know what, I'm just going to ask /dev/urandom
[21:37] <fsphil> 6
[21:37] <DanielRichman> /dev/urandom says 0xBA
[21:38] <MikeMc68> bah that's letters not a number ;)
[21:38] <jonsowman> 0xba = 186
[21:38] <DanielRichman> it's a hexadecimal number
[21:39] <DanielRichman> jonsowman, did you do that in your head?
[21:39] <jonsowman> i'd like to say yes
[21:39] <jonsowman> but no, google
[21:39] <DanielRichman> gnome-calculator?
[21:39] <DanielRichman> ah google
[21:40] <MikeMc68> No!! Is it?! Surely not !!
[21:40] <MikeMc68> Letters that are really numbers - well I never
[21:40] <MikeMc68> What is the world coming to
[21:41] <DanielRichman> hmm... next time I ask for a number you're going to give me base64 stuff now, arn't you
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[21:59] <edmoore|away> hi G8DSU
[21:59] Nick change: edmoore|away -> edmoore
[22:00] <sbasuita> edmoore, so we (me dan and alex) are done with our payload... what's the best way to get a launch organised?
[22:00] <sbasuita> edmoore, any important cambridge schedules we should know about etc?
[22:00] <edmoore> just name your day and we'll do our best
[22:00] <edmoore> second half of april is a write-off for me though
[22:00] <sbasuita> edmoore, is saturday or sunday generally better?
[22:00] <edmoore> either
[22:00] <sbasuita> hmm
[22:01] <edmoore> saturday means churchill college brunch
[22:01] <edmoore> which always helps flights go smoothly
[22:01] <sbasuita> edmoore, what was the link to the predictor that made a plot of different launch times?
[22:01] <edmoore> cuspaceflight.co.uk/hourly-predictions
[22:02] <sbasuita> cheers
[22:02] <edmoore> I can change the flight parameters for you (ascent, descent, burst) if you tell me them. or i can work them out for yo
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[22:03] <natrium42> edmoore, haha, you should start CLS
[22:03] <sbasuita> edmoore, i would have to look them all up gleaning information from lots of sources and its a bit late now, but i'm going to try and get this off the ground soon
[22:03] <edmoore> CLS?
[22:03] <natrium42> Cambridge Launch Services
[22:03] <sbasuita> ;P
[22:03] <natrium42> a la ILS (international launch services)
[22:04] <edmoore> sbasuita: i can calc it for you if you want
[22:04] <edmoore> or guide you through
[22:04] <sbasuita> edmoore, hmm, ok, let me get the payload, balloon specs
[22:04] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, ^ ?
[22:06] <DanielRichman> er
[22:06] <DanielRichman> specs
[22:06] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, what's our payload weight?
[22:06] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, absolutely no clue
[22:06] Action: natrium42 weighs sbasuita
[22:06] Action: sbasuita waits for DanielRichman to go downstairs and get the kitchen scales
[22:06] <sbasuita> ;P
[22:06] <DanielRichman> Yeah I knew that was coming
[22:06] <sbasuita> natrium42, you scare me
[22:06] <DanielRichman> i'm too tired for this!
[22:06] <DanielRichman> gah.
[22:06] <natrium42> :)
[22:07] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, also which balloon did we get again?
[22:08] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, IDK you bought it
[22:08] <DanielRichman> hold on, I have the receipt saved in ~/Projects/Alien :o
[22:09] <DanielRichman> Kaymont Kcl-1200
[22:09] <natrium42> *Kci
[22:09] <jonsowman> pretty popular one that
[22:09] <DanielRichman> w/e natrium42
[22:09] <edmoore> i need to know payload mass, balloon size, and an altitude if desired
[22:09] <DanielRichman> it's a png with a capital I
[22:10] <DanielRichman> Payload is 600g exactly all batteries and gear included
[22:10] <DanielRichman> however that does not include weight of chute & ropes & the unescapabale death-by-duct tape sbasuita and alex want to put it through
[22:10] <jonsowman> edmoore: you changing the hourly preds scenario for them?
[22:11] <edmoore> yep
[22:11] <jonsowman> ah cool
[22:11] <DanielRichman> Chute is "Parachute for 450g to 800g payloads"
[22:11] <edmoore> just tell me the diamater
[22:11] <DanielRichman> edmoore, shouldn't the parameters be configurable by the web interface?
[22:11] <DanielRichman> diameter of chute?
[22:11] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: we havent got round to that yet...
[22:11] <edmoore> yes
[22:11] <edmoore> hourly prediction is not web-configurable
[22:12] <DanielRichman> 24"
[22:12] <jonsowman> edmoore: maybe something to look at doing in the future?
[22:12] <edmoore> it's on the list
[22:12] <DanielRichman> chute is 24"
[22:12] <jonsowman> fair enough
[22:12] <natrium42> 24"? how light is your payload?
[22:12] <edmoore> DanielRichman: is that layed out flat or the (smaller) infalted diameter
[22:13] <DanielRichman> that's the number crossed on the piece of paper that came with it. It's not opened
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[22:14] <edmoore> ok
[22:14] <DanielRichman> I believe it's from http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Products.htm, scroll to the bottom, item 24" Parachute (Out of Stock) - £8.95 (Inc. VAT) - correct sbasuita ?
[22:14] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, yeah we got it from thta page
[22:14] <edmoore> that'll probably be flat then
[22:14] <natrium42> your payload better be light with a chute of that size
[22:14] <sbasuita> i guess the nylon and duct tape are negligible btw
[22:14] <sbasuita> natrium42, bit late now ;P
[22:15] <natrium42> or handle the impact well :D
[22:15] Action: natrium42 pokes edmoore in the eye
[22:15] <sbasuita> natrium42, i would do some drop tests but they scare me
[22:15] <natrium42> meh, the launch is basically a large drop test :P
[22:15] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, the sd card will survive atleast
[22:16] <Randomskk> gotta hope whatever it lands on survives too
[22:16] <fsphil> unless it takes a dip
[22:16] <Randomskk> when's your estimate launch date?
[22:16] <sbasuita> natrium42, yeah but if there's a 1/2 chance of failure then doing a drop test and a launch is a Bad Idea ;P
[22:16] <sbasuita> Randomskk, asap
[22:16] <Randomskk> edmoore: any news on our fantastic lab? jon and I had a look at the current one
[22:16] <sbasuita> Randomskk, before GCSEs ;P
[22:16] <Randomskk> distinct lack of roof
[22:16] <edmoore> Randomskk: no
[22:16] <Randomskk> sbasuita: GCSEs are easy, your project is far more interesting
[22:16] Action: natrium42 sharpens poking stick
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> hey do you know what?
[22:17] <jonsowman> natrium42: lol
[22:17] <sbasuita> :S
[22:17] <edmoore> DanielRichman / sbasuita : so i know balloon size and parachute size, now I need payload mass
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> I can get a STS-6 counter tube for my flight
[22:17] <sbasuita> Lunar_Lander, is that a geiger counter or something?
[22:17] <DanielRichman> edmoore, 600grams
[22:17] <DanielRichman> however that does not include weight of chute & ropes & the unescapabale death-by-duct tape sbasuita and alex want to put it through
[22:17] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: my next launch will have a GM tube on it
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> exactly
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:17] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, d/w those weights are negligible
[22:18] <sbasuita> Lunar_Lander, that will be super cool
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:18] <DanielRichman> death by duct tape is not cool
[22:18] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, it is a necessary evil
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> there is that Czech/Swedish group who did experiments on the BEXUS 7 and 9 balloons
[22:18] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, by what means (iirc you did it recently) did you learn the Intermediate foundation course. Did you also do the advanced one in the same sitting/is that a possibility?
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> and they could modify it to write on a SD card
[22:19] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I did foundation and intermediate together and advanced shortly afterwards
[22:19] <Randomskk> there is no reason you couldn't do all of them
[22:19] <Randomskk> but if you failed either preceding one, you would not be able to take the latter exams and hence waste your money
[22:19] <DanielRichman> Yeah, I've heard of people doing all three in one sitting
[22:19] <DanielRichman> True
[22:19] <Randomskk> it is certainly doable
[22:20] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, what material/websites/books/lessons gave you the knowledge to do those two?
[22:20] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: the RSGB books for all three and that was it, loaned to me by the CU wireless soc
[22:20] Action: fsphil is doing the foundation course next week :D
[22:20] <Randomskk> also CUWS ran the practicals required for the foundation and intermediate, both of which are very easy
[22:21] <Randomskk> the main thing is that the advanced courses run only on certain dates
[22:21] <Randomskk> while intermediate and foundation can be run whenever
[22:21] <DanielRichman> fsphil, good luck (though I expect you don't need it)
[22:21] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, okey.
[22:22] <fsphil> thanks DanielRichman - I've been doing the mocks on hamtests.co.uk, doing pretty well on that
[22:22] <Randomskk> fsphil: the pass marks are really low
[22:22] <Randomskk> like advanced was what, 60%
[22:22] <Randomskk> it's ridiculous
[22:22] <DanielRichman> you need 17 out of 25 in foundation
[22:22] <fsphil> really?
[22:22] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, what did you get in your foundation?
[22:22] <fsphil> ah then I'm sorted :)
[22:22] <DanielRichman> fsphil, don't get complacent!
[22:22] <fsphil> lol
[22:22] <fsphil> moi?
[22:23] <fsphil> :)
[22:23] <DanielRichman> fsphil, what are you getting in your hamtests.co.uk?
[22:23] <edmoore> DanielRichman / sbasuita : so you can go to 35km at 4.5m/s. Yopu decent speed is 3.7m/s
[22:23] <Randomskk> apparently no one at CUWS has ever failed foundation
[22:23] <Randomskk> one person did get 17 though
[22:23] <fsphil> between 90 and 100% DanielRichman
[22:23] <Randomskk> fiiiine
[22:23] <fsphil> I did the intermediate one too for a laugh, and got 70%
[22:23] <DanielRichman> fsphil, okey... fair enough, you're sorted.
[22:23] <DanielRichman> ha
[22:23] <DanielRichman> Yeah I was looking at those a couple of days ago
[22:23] <Randomskk> also a pass iirc but obviously some learning would be good
[22:24] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, practical content in intermediate includes..?
[22:24] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: iirc, connecting a UK mains plug, soldering a PL259 or BNC connector onto coax, and making up any simple radio-related electronics project, e.g. a Maplin frequency counter
[22:24] <Randomskk> by making up I mean soldering together or similar
[22:24] <fsphil> ooh I can solder
[22:24] <Randomskk> there may be one or two parts I'm neglecting
[22:25] <Randomskk> oh, there's basic stuff like using a voltmeter and ohmmeter
[22:25] <fsphil> I was told I need to learn resistor colour codes for the intermediate?
[22:25] <Randomskk> yes but that's easy
[22:25] <Randomskk> there's a way to remember them
[22:25] <DanielRichman> so I know all that but have never practiced soldering the two connectors onto coax
[22:25] <Randomskk> but it's somewhat racist, sexist and otherwise crude and vulgar
[22:25] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: it's not like "you get it wrong you fail" so much as "demonstrate doing it once"
[22:25] <DanielRichman> ha
[22:26] <Randomskk> also it's pretty straightforward and the person running it should be able to show you how
[22:26] <DanielRichman> Electronics GCSE I've got the resistors sorted
[22:26] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, ohright you don't even have to learn it before going in there
[22:26] <edmoore> DanielRichman sbasuita : wait until 11pm
[22:26] <edmoore> then run hourly predictions
[22:26] <Randomskk> fsphil: "black boys rape our young girls but violet gives willingly" "black brown red orange yellow green blue violet grey white"
[22:26] <sbasuita> edmoore, thanks :)
[22:26] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I think properly you are meant to remember it
[22:26] <sbasuita> edmoore, is there a way we can check what values the predictor is using?
[22:26] <Randomskk> but certainly when I did mine there was a copy there
[22:26] <edmoore> it says
[22:26] <DanielRichman> I prefer.... my way of knowing those, Randomskk
[22:26] <sbasuita> edmoore, to make sure it hasn't been changed by somebody later
[22:26] <Randomskk> and it wasn't at all rigorous
[22:27] <edmoore> sbasuita: it says
[22:27] <Randomskk> like it was "work out in your head what values these are, then compare them to what you read on this multimeter to check you got it right"
[22:27] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, I know that 5 is green and 6 is blue because 560 is our school's standard LED-resistor.
[22:27] <sbasuita> edmoore, ah, i see. Many thanks
[22:27] <DanielRichman> black and brown are obvious from the abuse of 1k resistors and 10k
[22:27] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I still think my way is more memorable, but in reality you tend to just multimeter things :P
[22:27] <DanielRichman> ha
[22:27] <Randomskk> aha, found my practical sheets
[22:28] <Randomskk> intermediate consisted of: measure resistors, confirm values using colour code (note order there)
[22:28] <fsphil> i can't tell the difference between some of the colours anyway
[22:28] <DanielRichman> lol
[22:28] <Randomskk> demonstrate ability to make good soldered joints, construct a simple circuit containing a battery, resistor, LED, lamp and switch, measure voltages and currents in aforementioned circuit
[22:28] <sbasuita> somebody remind me why a number isn't just printed on the resistor?
[22:28] <Randomskk> demonstrate that a diode will only conduct in one direction in a simple DC circuit
[22:28] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, expensive to print numbers?
[22:28] <Randomskk> sbasuita: tradition, and it's harder, and it can only be read from one direction
[22:28] <Randomskk> SMT resistors do have numbers printed on
[22:29] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: no more so really
[22:29] <DanielRichman> hmm ok.
[22:29] <sbasuita> i can't imagine the cost of printing numbers to be a significant percentage of the resistor cost
[22:29] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, resistors are dirt cheap
[22:29] <Randomskk> further, demonstrate that a transistor can be used as a switch in a simple DC circuit, fit a suitable RF connector onto coax, fit a 13A plug to 3-core mains cable
[22:29] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, so is printing ;)
[22:29] <DanielRichman> usually the box they come in is more expensive
[22:29] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, I see
[22:29] <Randomskk> then "construct a simple amatuer radio related project" and "calibrate a VFO using an adjustable LC circuit", but that will be gone over entirely when you do the practical
[22:30] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, I need to get me one of those books
[22:30] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, then I'm sorted for Intermediate
[22:30] <Randomskk> whoever is assessing you may be able to lend you a book
[22:30] <Randomskk> your balloon radio project will count for your circuit tbh
[22:30] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, so we are taking full license with mat phillips right?
[22:30] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, defo
[22:30] <Randomskk> the rest of it is super easy to just turn up and do
[22:31] <Randomskk> the full license actually has some more interesting theory and is a bit more complicated, but also has no practicals
[22:31] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, our school is restarting its radio amateur club, G4RSC, started by the interests of the aformentioned max phillips who is a signaller in the Cadets (and the ccf license lets him do slightly more than foundation but only on their callsign iirc)
[22:31] <Randomskk> however you can pass despite getting all the theory parts wrong if you can remember that "as a full license holder you can pass welcome messages but should check the receiving end is happy to receive them"
[22:31] <DanielRichman> He wants to get Advanced license so he can start to operate G4RSC and I like the sound of that too
[22:31] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, can't find any info on rules about operating club callsigns
[22:31] <Randomskk> sbasuita: gotta be a full license
[22:31] <sbasuita> Randomskk, that's what we suspected
[22:31] <Randomskk> or under supervision thereof
[22:32] <DanielRichman> their equipment in the cadets signallers office is a bit... shit...
[22:32] <DanielRichman> but it's better than nothing and sounds like great fun
[22:32] <Randomskk> it is good fun
[22:32] <Randomskk> also then you can tx with 400W and use an M0/M1 etc callsign
[22:32] <sbasuita> you can _attempt_ to tx with 400W ;)
[22:32] <Randomskk> hah, true
[22:33] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, I'm really interested in building my own kit
[22:33] Action: Randomskk 's ic7000 can only do 100W on HF and less on VHF/UHF but still
[22:33] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: another fun use of an intermediate or beyond license
[22:33] <Randomskk> foundation doesn't let you
[22:33] <DanielRichman> they're trying to get everyone in the club (ie. the ~20 people who turned up on monday) to foundation in a month or a bit
[22:33] <Randomskk> foundation lets you make pre-designed kits to instruction if I remember right
[22:33] <DanielRichman> myself and sbasuita are the only ones already with foundation; one of the guys is taking foundation in a week
[22:33] <Randomskk> intermediate lets you make your own kit I think
[22:33] <fsphil> that's right Randomskk
[22:33] <DanielRichman> so we'll be working on intermediate while they do foundation, and so on
[22:33] <Randomskk> and then full is the same in that respect but with more power available
[22:34] <Randomskk> though making your own kit for 400W would be a fun albeit complicated and probably expensive enterprise :P
[22:34] <Randomskk> some of the theory is pretty useful for HAB projects admittedly
[22:36] <DanielRichman> What makes up the huge cost of radio rigs/is there one really expensive 'bit' that gives the ft-817 its £400 price tag, forex.?
[22:36] <Randomskk> markup
[22:36] <DanielRichman> so building your own....?
[22:36] <Randomskk> well I guess really it's a case of cost of employing engineers
[22:36] <Randomskk> amateur radios are significantly smaller volume than, say, wifi transceivers
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[22:37] <Randomskk> and are pretty sensitive, low-noise, well designed items by and large
[22:38] <DanielRichman> fair enough
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> Building your own rig - to the same specs - is not going to be cheaper.
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> Especially once you count time.
[22:40] <Randomskk> definitely.
[22:40] <Randomskk> building your own to a lower spec can be cheaper though still takes significant time
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> Building a rig to recieve - say 70cm direct conversion only - may be cheaper
[22:42] <Randomskk> but probably even then not cheaper for the same functionality
[22:42] <Randomskk> especially once DSP gets involved
[22:42] <DanielRichman> On a related but tangential note... Antenna at 5watts to reach ~20miles vertically polarised on FM... Whip enough? Dipole? Folded Dipole?
[22:42] <Randomskk> whip should probably do
[22:42] <DanielRichman> also: building a balun for a folded dipole is relatively easy; what about for a non-folded/normal dipole? what well-matching designs are there to build at home?
[22:42] <Randomskk> dipole would be marginally better
[22:43] <DanielRichman> but more of a pain to mount
[22:43] <Randomskk> a normal dipole tends to be pretty easy to make a balun for too
[22:43] <DanielRichman> Ok. Whips need baluns?
[22:43] <Randomskk> no
[22:43] <Randomskk> whips are unbalanced
[22:43] <Randomskk> e.g. fed at an end, not symmetric about feed point
[22:43] <DanielRichman> and 1/4 wavelength long or 1/2?
[22:43] <Randomskk> for a whip? 1/4 is usually okay, better if you can make a ground plane
[22:44] <Randomskk> check out the fantastic contraption hanging off the box in http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4413279333/
[22:44] <Randomskk> that's a 434 1/4wave whip with ground plane radials
[22:44] <DanielRichman> tastey
[22:44] <Randomskk> and got from here to oxford on 10mW
[22:44] <DanielRichman> We've got a less professional looking 1/4 ground plane antenna for our payload
[22:44] <Randomskk> admittedly LoS
[22:44] <Randomskk> "less professional looking"?!
[22:44] <DanielRichman> s/professional/awesome?
[22:44] <Randomskk> this is made of yellow sainsburys drinking straws
[22:44] <DanielRichman> but damn does it looks good
[22:45] <Randomskk> :P
[22:45] <DanielRichman> however - i'm thinking 2m/145.375MHz for talking to the local club.
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> drinking straws are good.
[22:45] Action: natrium42 looks at edmoore
[22:45] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4414039114/in/set-72157623572598718/ is actually what it looks like under the tape
[22:45] <edmoore> whya look at me natrium42
[22:45] <Randomskk> a square of copper clad board with a hole drilled through
[22:45] <natrium42> PM
[22:45] <natrium42> :)
[22:45] <Randomskk> the centre conductor goes through the hole and is soldered to the driven element
[22:45] <edmoore> oh yeah
[22:45] <Randomskk> then the braid is soldered to the copper along with the four radials
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> If only it was easy to sine a square.
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> http://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/mobile_momentum/archive/2009/12/12/flash-10-moves-to-the-mobile-environment.aspx - forexample
[22:46] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> http://www.analog.com/en/rfif-components/pll-synthesizersvcos/ADF4350/products/product.html?ref=ASC-PR-015
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> even
[22:46] <DanielRichman> mmm
[22:46] <DanielRichman> 2m/145.375MHz for talking to the local club; mounting on the roof; probably easier to use a whip?
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> a nice 135-4Ghz clock gen
[22:46] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: net or repeater?
[22:46] <DanielRichman> net
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> Add a mixer, and you're done.
[22:46] <Randomskk> whip definitely
[22:47] <Randomskk> dipole has the whole directionality problem
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> neglecting any filters of course.
[22:47] <DanielRichman> what if I had said repeater?
[22:47] <Randomskk> unless all net members are in a straight line deal
[22:47] <Randomskk> with a repeater a small yagi'd be fine
[22:47] <DanielRichman> well I'm quite far from the majority of them
[22:47] <Randomskk> still fairly easy to make but you can point it straight at it and get awesome signal
[22:47] <DanielRichman> :P
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> a good pattern is one with quite a lot of gain horizontally, and ideally that points the beam down a little
[22:48] <edmoore> slim-jim or j-pole
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> so you get a cone of peak beam at maybe 10 degrees down
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> not a cone
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> yes a cone
[22:48] Action: SpeedEvil is confusing himself.
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> You don't care much about gain when you're far enough away that you can't hear it - or when you're close enough to be out of the main beamlobe.
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> As you can't be further than 35km away underneath
[22:53] <DanielRichman> I could build a moxon
[22:53] <edmoore> nooooooooooo
[22:53] <edmoore> look at their elevation radiation pattern
[22:53] <DanielRichman> :P
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> I suggest building a automatically steered yagi.
[22:54] <DanielRichman> ha
[22:54] <edmoore> as it ascends it wpould sound like this:
[22:54] <edmoore> BLEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeep
[22:54] <DanielRichman> But should be ok talking to the hams on 2m
[22:55] <edmoore> oh yeah sure
[22:59] <DanielRichman> bbl
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[22:59] <juxta> morning all
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> hi juxta
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[23:06] <juxta> MikeMc68, are you around? sorry I kept missing you yesterday
[23:06] <MikeMc68> hi
[23:07] <juxta> hey
[23:07] <MikeMc68> Question
[23:07] <juxta> sure
[23:07] <MikeMc68> To the west of your landing spot is a weird coastal feature - it is a perfect curved bay
[23:07] <juxta> oh yep
[23:07] <MikeMc68> it is either man made or it has got to be the rim of a crater
[23:07] <juxta> lake alexandrina
[23:07] <juxta> hmm
[23:08] <juxta> it's not man made
[23:08] <MikeMc68> no it's on the coast
[23:08] <MikeMc68> it is a perfect curve
[23:08] <juxta> oh right
[23:08] <MikeMc68> it has got to be the rim of a huge volcano or a meteor impact crater
[23:08] <juxta> yeah down by the coorong
[23:08] <MikeMc68> Policemans something
[23:09] <juxta> http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Adelaide&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Adelaide+South+Australia&ll=-36.22655,139.702148&spn=1.661696,3.040466&z=9
[23:09] <juxta> that one?
[23:09] <MikeMc68> yeah
[23:09] <MikeMc68> it's not a fractal coastline like it shoul dbe
[23:09] <juxta> true that
[23:10] <juxta> but it's not hard land either
[23:10] <juxta> that's all constantly changing sands
[23:10] <MikeMc68> it's all very weird
[23:11] <juxta> now that you mention it, yeah, it is
[23:11] <MikeMc68> we need a geologist
[23:11] <juxta> heh
[23:12] <juxta> this is where horus 2 came down MikeMc68: http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=34+57.122S,+139+34.319E&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=21.908432,56.513672&ie=UTF8&ll=-34.951945,139.57469&spn=0.004872,0.013797&t=h&z=16
[23:12] <MikeMc68> in a tree ?
[23:12] <edmoore> night
[23:13] <juxta> yeah - the balloon didn't pop, so it got dragged along for ages until it wound up in a tree
[23:13] <juxta> I'll post some photos later on
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[23:13] <juxta> it's a sad and dirty state
[23:13] <MikeMc68> so it didn't go up at all ?
[23:13] <juxta> it went up about 1km
[23:13] <juxta> well
[23:13] <juxta> 1.5km
[23:13] <MikeMc68> then came back down ?
[23:13] <juxta> we underfilled, it was going up very slowly, and it was insanely windy + rainy
[23:14] <MikeMc68> oh dear
[23:14] <juxta> as it got into the clouds, it soaked up some water & didnt have enough lift
[23:14] <juxta> so it slowly came down
[23:14] <MikeMc68> you'll have to be more patient for the right conditions next time :)
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[23:14] <juxta> bad day for launching ;)
[23:14] <MikeMc68> sounds like it
[23:14] <juxta> we coulddnt keep up with it
[23:15] <MikeMc68> you should have shot it down
[23:15] <MikeMc68> take a shotgun next time
[23:15] <juxta> hehe
[23:15] <natrium42> lol
[23:15] <MikeMc68> next project - a rocket guided missile for taking out rogue balloons
[23:15] <natrium42> actually a bb gun should be standard launch equip
[23:15] <Randomskk> hahaha yes
[23:15] <natrium42> :P
[23:16] <Randomskk> "shit, balloon isn't filled enough, quick"
[23:16] <Randomskk> actually
[23:16] <juxta> next time I'll program the cutdown to take runaway balloons into account
[23:16] <Randomskk> hydrogen balloon
[23:16] <Randomskk> and cutdown device
[23:16] <MikeMc68> woohoo
[23:16] <Randomskk> a small pyro charge
[23:16] <juxta> natrium42: my boards arrived from batchpcb
[23:16] <Randomskk> hydrogen is cheaper and less dense already
[23:16] <Randomskk> we just turn the "explosive" bug into a feature
[23:16] <juxta> we'll be using H2 in future
[23:17] <juxta> will probably get hold of some safety gear though
[23:17] <juxta> hey MikeMc68, did you manage to secure FSA03's?
[23:18] <MikeMc68> yep
[23:18] <juxta> oh nice
[23:18] <juxta> any idea on price?
[23:18] <MikeMc68> just waiting for the next run from the manufacturer
[23:18] <MikeMc68> that I get them for or that I will sell them for ?
[23:18] <juxta> sell them for, I'd like to get a few ;p
[23:19] <juxta> shipping from the UK is usually pretty horrible here though
[23:19] <MikeMc68> well for the UKHAS guys you can have them trade prices so it will be £25 + VAT + P&P
[23:19] <MikeMc68> for a tiny light package like that it should only be a few quid
[23:19] <juxta> awesome
[23:20] <juxta> what does VAT amount to?
[23:20] <juxta> 10%ish?
[23:21] <Randomskk> 17.5% woo
[23:21] <juxta> wow, thats a bit rude
[23:22] <MikeMc68> lol
[23:22] <MikeMc68> it's bloody scandalous never mind rude
[23:22] <juxta> I'm quite impressed with the FSA03, it gets lock really quickly even inside
[23:23] <Randomskk> it was 15% briefly
[23:23] <Randomskk> to lull us all into a false sense of security presumably
[23:23] <Randomskk> they then upped it back to 17.5%
[23:23] <MikeMc68> edmoore is giving really dirty to looks to the camera throughout this video
[23:23] <Randomskk> lucky it didn't go up to 20% really
[23:23] <fsphil> it'll likely go higher soon too
[23:23] <Randomskk> MikeMc68: haha epic
[23:23] <Randomskk> is it up yet or are you still editing?
[23:24] <MikeMc68> still editing
[23:24] <jonsowman> MikeMc68: lol. looking forward to seeing this
[23:24] <juxta> oh wait, but do I pay that being international? I know I dont pay sales tax to US stores ;p
[23:24] <jonsowman> Randomskk: i have your box lids
[23:24] <jonsowman> just fyi
[23:24] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Election coming up. After that...
[23:24] <MikeMc68> Hi Rick
[23:25] <MikeMc68> Didn't see you lurking there
[23:25] <juxta> ok, I'm off to the tire shop to get them to fix the bodge they made of my wheel alignment, back in a while
[23:25] <jonsowman> cya juxta
[23:25] <LazyLeopard> ...OAS committee meeting...
[23:26] <MikeMc68> lol
[23:26] <MikeMc68> that interesting ay ? ;)
[23:26] <Randomskk> jonsowman: oh so you do
[23:26] <Randomskk> I should take them back some time
[23:26] fsphil (~phil@2001:470:1f09:483:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) left irc: Quit: night all
[23:26] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yeh before saturday preferably. heh
[23:26] <LazyLeopard> At my place, so when it got tedious I went and made more tea/coffee/etc.
[23:26] <Randomskk> yea
[23:26] <Randomskk> well I am going on saturday too
[23:26] <MikeMc68> i'm going to have to edit out edmoore's dirty looks to camera - he looks like an axe murderer
[23:26] <Randomskk> I could collect them now if you want
[23:27] <jonsowman> i'll bring them down tomorrow morning
[23:27] <MikeMc68> Rick - ahh that is handy
[23:27] <Randomskk> MikeMc68: by "have to edit out" you mean "emphasise"?
[23:27] <Randomskk> uh
[23:27] <MikeMc68> I guess I could zoom in on his eyes and freeze frame
[23:27] <MikeMc68> for dramatic effect
[23:27] <Randomskk> hehe
[23:27] <jonsowman> at at some point tomorrow at least.
[23:27] <Randomskk> jonsowman: okay
[23:27] <Randomskk> I could collect them now, it would take like twenty seconds
[23:27] <Randomskk> also kiwi is excellent this term
[23:28] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yup ok go for it
[23:28] <jonsowman> as for kiwi, havent read it yet
[23:29] Action: LazyLeopard needs to check the state of his lathe and mill, clearly...
[23:29] <Randomskk> yaaay box lids
[23:29] <jonsowman> Randomskk: lol
[23:31] <LazyLeopard> ...now that they're nearly accessible for the first time in almost a decade.
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:37] <MikeMc68> anyone know where to get that kind of box that Scott J used for his payload ?
[23:39] SpeedEvil1 (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[23:39] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[23:40] <jonsowman> sleep time
[23:40] <jonsowman> night all
[23:41] <MikeMc68> night
[23:41] <SpeedEvil1> niht
[23:41] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[23:42] <Lunar_Lander> one thing before I go to bed
[23:42] <Lunar_Lander> the prediction for tomorrow is amazing
[23:43] <Randomskk> from chu?
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[23:43] <Randomskk> yea
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> look at this: http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/511/balloontrack10032010.png
[23:43] <Randomskk> it is really nice
[23:43] <Randomskk> I don't think we're planning to fly anything though
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> it's just an experiment right now :P
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> according to google earth, it will drop right besides a high-tension cable pole
[23:48] <MikeMc68> Lunar_Lander where are you ?
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> at the green arrow there :P
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> where it says Osnabrück
[23:49] <natrium42> Niedarsachsen
[23:50] <MikeMc68> I didn't realise you were in GErmany
[23:50] <MikeMc68> lived out there for a while when I was a kid
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> in the city too?
[23:52] <MikeMc68> Wuppertal
[23:53] <MikeMc68> as a kid it was all a big adventure
[23:53] <MikeMc68> especially riding on the Schwebebahn
[23:53] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:53] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that's cool
[23:53] <natrium42> haha
[23:54] <natrium42> i lived near Leer over 7 years
[23:54] <natrium42> you know where that is, Lunar_Lander?
[23:54] <MikeMc68> I still think a monorail is the solution to the travel problems in London
[23:56] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[23:56] <Lunar_Lander> I have been there also ;)
[23:57] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[23:57] <natrium42> :)
[23:58] <natrium42> what did you do there?
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> I passed through on my way to the North Sea
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> ;)
[00:00] --- Wed Mar 10 2010