highaltitude.log.20100303

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[02:25] <natrium42> juxta, are the pictures on flickr all you got that flight?
[02:34] <natrium42> it's quite possible to stich a full frame, if you have more: http://spacenear.us/temp/horus/
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[11:52] <jcoxon> Got BH4 back :-)
[11:55] <jonsowman> jcoxon: good good :)
[12:02] <juxta> jcoxon: nice :)
[12:02] <juxta> I'll be launching a balloon this coming Monday I think
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> Good luck.
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: oh - great!
[12:03] <jcoxon> will do some revision for an hour and then will start the detective work
[12:04] <jcoxon> i tihnk the first step is to just run the pump and gps at the same time
[12:04] <jcoxon> (as in run the pump manually and see if its noise
[12:05] Action: SpeedEvil passes jcoxon a magnifying glass, and a deerstalker.
[12:08] <jcoxon> bbl
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[13:31] <jcoxon> back
[13:31] <jcoxon> wow 39 people
[13:34] <SpeedEvil> 38
[13:35] <jcoxon> hehe zeusbot is a person!
[13:35] Action: N900evil is a dupe.
[13:36] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[13:54] <jcoxon> yay i got a QSL card from PD3EM
[13:54] <jcoxon> which reminds me to get on and make some of my own
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[15:26] <MikeMc68> afternoon
[15:26] <jcoxon> hey MikeMc68
[15:28] <MikeMc68> hey
[15:29] <jcoxon> hmmm the more i research the more i find that the lassen iq is terrible with interference
[15:29] <MikeMc68> in what way?
[15:35] <jcoxon> seems like quite a lot of reports of interfernce from various things such as cameras
[15:35] <jcoxon> http://bear.sbszoo.com/bear3-4/bear4.htm
[15:36] <MikeMc68> hmm
[15:36] <MikeMc68> that's not good
[15:38] <jcoxon> and also: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:gps_modules#gps_interference
[15:39] <jcoxon> iirc steve had issues with flip cameras causing interference
[15:39] <MikeMc68> hmm
[15:39] <MikeMc68> sounds like a ublox is in order
[15:40] <jcoxon> yeah
[15:40] <jcoxon> just a shame they are so hard to get hold of in a nice format
[15:42] <ProjectCirrus> would a simple opto coupler help?
[15:43] <MikeMc68> That US company does a nice breakout etc.
[15:43] <jcoxon> ProjectCirrus, oh for BH4 with the motor issues there was a relay inbetween
[15:43] <jcoxon> seperate powersupplies
[15:44] <jcoxon> MikeMc68, quite expensive shipping
[15:44] <ProjectCirrus> ahh, radiated interference ah well worth a shot :)
[15:44] <MikeMc68> yeah it is
[15:45] <MikeMc68> jcoxon why don't we design our own?
[15:45] <MikeMc68> and then buy a load of them - we could sell them
[15:45] <MikeMc68> i can advertise them on my store
[15:46] <ProjectCirrus> excuse my ignorance but are you the face of random aerospace?
[15:46] <ProjectCirrus> or random solutions?
[15:46] <MikeMc68> not me
[15:46] <jcoxon> ProjectCirrus, oh thats rocektboy's shop
[15:46] <MikeMc68> i'm Earthshine Design
[15:46] <jcoxon> MikeMc68, does earthshinedesign
[15:46] <MikeMc68> that's rocketboy
[15:46] <ProjectCirrus> ahh good to know
[15:46] <ProjectCirrus> thanks, i'll check out your shop
[15:49] <MikeMc68> James what are the differences between the FSA01, 02 and 03 modules ?
[15:50] <jcoxon> lots
[15:50] <jcoxon> only 03 is ublox
[15:50] <jcoxon> the others are sirfIII
[15:50] <MikeMc68> ahh
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[15:53] <MikeMc68> James i've written to Falcom
[15:53] <MikeMc68> to see about getting hold of a batch of them to sell
[15:53] <MikeMc68> and we can make our own breakout PCB and get them made from PCBTrain or somewhere like that
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[15:55] <jcoxon> good idea
[15:57] <jcoxon> MikeMc68, if not there is always the more expensive GS407
[15:57] <jcoxon> http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=379
[15:58] <MikeMc68> is there any benefit for the extra cash?
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> Has anyone looked at irect from china?
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/GeneralManager?point_search=on&page=search%2FProductSearchResults&product_search=on&supplier_search=off&article_search=off&type=new&search_what=1&query=gps+module+sirf&point_id=3000000149681&catalog_id=2000000003844&from=&loc=t&AGG=N&action=GetPoint&action=DoFreeTextSearch
[16:03] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, certainly don't want a sirf :-
[16:03] <jcoxon> D
[16:03] <jcoxon> MikeMc68, there are a lot more of those modules though they aren't any better
[16:06] <MikeMc68> the FSA03 seems to be the cheapest of that kind
[16:07] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:09] <MikeMc68> I have from 18th to 28th March off on annual leave
[16:10] <MikeMc68> I am planning on using as much of that time as I can to work on my payload
[16:10] <MikeMc68> to get it ready for a launch window in early April
[16:11] <jcoxon> great
[16:12] <MikeMc68> I've just been too busy otherwise so having 11 days off will allow me to concentrate on it and get it done
[16:12] <jcoxon> wow getting individual chips from ublox is a challenge
[16:12] <jcoxon> they only ship in 500+
[16:13] <MikeMc68> chips without teh antennas?
[16:13] <MikeMc68> A lot of compaies will say that they sell in minimum quantities but you can usually come to an agreement
[16:14] <jcoxon> no just the raw chips
[16:14] <MikeMc68> I buy RGB Dot Matrix units from a chinese company that usually only sell in minimum quantities of 1000+ but i've ordered as low as 50 off them
[16:14] <MikeMc68> Would you want the raw chip though?
[16:14] <jcoxon> http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/GPS#Sourcing_from_u-blox
[16:14] <jcoxon> make our own :-)
[16:15] <jcoxon> MikeMc68, there is alos: http://www.computeruniverse.net/products/e90280018/d2/specifications/navilock-nl-507ttl-u-blox-ttl-modul.asp
[16:15] <MikeMc68> hmm
[16:16] <MikeMc68> is that the samea chip as in the FSA03 ?
[16:16] <jcoxon> no
[16:16] <jcoxon> the fsa03 is better
[16:16] <jcoxon> i reckon the fsa03 is the best option - its an excellent chip and a very good antenna
[16:17] <jcoxon> and a fair price
[16:18] <MikeMc68> yeah
[16:18] <MikeMc68> i'll see what prices they offer me and buy some
[16:19] <MikeMc68> if I can get them a decent price and it is cheaper for you HAS guys then you will order from me instead of other companies hopefully
[16:19] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[16:19] <jcoxon> and if a breakout is available even better
[16:19] <MikeMc68> we can make our own
[16:19] <jcoxon> yes
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[18:10] <JohnTed> What is a good balloon trajectory forecast website for NY area?
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[18:13] <JohnTed> also, how accurate at these forecasts in the opinion of someone who has used them and launched before? any advice when forecasting?
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[18:17] <scottyjames> hi can anyone give me advice for pre flight checklist? i have the balloon, parachute, and payload
[18:18] <scottyjames> also i need some advice on how to connect the parachute to the payload and payload to the balloon tanks.
[18:18] <scottyjames> thanks.
[18:24] <scottyjames> i have a 1.4 kg payload and a kcl kaymont 1200 sounding balloon
[18:25] <scottyjames> and a 44" PML DuraChute
[18:25] <scottyjames> anyone help please?
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> balloon tanks?
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> JohnTed: the forecasts are generally OK - +-50km is not uncommon
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> JohnTed: you've investigate the FAA/... requirements? NY airspace is quite crowded
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/predict/ - may be of use
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> you'll need to define your own launch site
[18:32] <scottyjames> thanks not tanks lol
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> oh - right. :)
[18:32] <scottyjames> i have got permission for cambridge site
[18:32] <scottyjames> i have read about balloon check list etc
[18:33] <scottyjames> put how do u tie the parachute to the cable.
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> As I understand it, tape round the balloon neck, capturing a string which goes to the parachute, then the payload
[18:33] <scottyjames> i have been told that i can with the dura chute
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> but I've never actually launched.
[18:34] <scottyjames> sew a small loop into the side of the spill hole and run the line through that - using a similar disk (or bar technique).
[18:34] <scottyjames> oh
[18:34] <scottyjames> humm
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[18:35] <SpeedEvil> Prolly best to wait for people who've actually done the launching thing.
[18:36] <scottyjames> do u know when they will be online
[18:36] <scottyjames> ?
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> Couple of hours would be typical.
[18:36] <scottyjames> kool kool
[18:36] <scottyjames> so u in the states?
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> Nope.
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> UK.
[18:37] <scottyjames> oh cool
[18:37] <SpeedEvil> I was saying FAA as JohnTed was meantioning launchinf from NY
[18:37] Action: SpeedEvil is in Fife, Scotland.
[18:37] <scottyjames> i just tested my payload at -60C for 40 mins today, no condensation on the window at all
[18:37] <scottyjames> perfect :P
[18:38] <SpeedEvil> neat.
[18:38] <SpeedEvil> Where did you get -60
[18:38] <scottyjames> enviromental chamber at my uni
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> ah.
[18:39] <scottyjames> kent uni that is
[18:40] Action: SpeedEvil goes back to looking for bits for induction cookers.
[18:41] <scottyjames> so how come u have never done a launch
[18:41] <scottyjames> ?
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> Lack of cash is a primary reason.
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> Also lack of time.
[18:42] <scottyjames> fair does
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[19:04] <scottyjames> have u used the cuse flight predictor?
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[19:16] <SpeedEvil> Yes - but never launched anything with it - others have
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[19:28] <scottyjames> some days, and times of days its in the uk others its in france lol
[19:29] <scottyjames> apart from on the morning i drive down to cambridge how do i make sure that day the payload stays int he uk
[19:29] <scottyjames> ?
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[19:29] <SpeedEvil> you launch only on days it does
[19:29] <scottyjames> so like tonight it looks great
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> And with fill amounts set for the conditions - to give the right rise rate
[19:30] <scottyjames> if on saturday it looks great, then i should go down?
[19:30] <scottyjames> fill amounts
[19:30] <scottyjames> ?
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> Fill the balloon more - it rises faster
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> And bursts lower
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[19:31] <natrium42> hi
[19:33] <scottyjames> ah well a 1200 kcl kaymont ballon takes a max 2.62 cu m of helium
[19:33] <scottyjames> but that 840 g of free liftm my payload is 1.4 kg
[19:34] <scottyjames> humm what would u suggest?
[19:35] <natrium42> scottyjames, plug all the info into burst1a.xls on the wiki
[19:35] <scottyjames> kk
[19:36] <scottyjames> oh yeah i was asking beofore does anyone know how to tie the parachute to the payload / weather balloon
[19:36] <scottyjames> so that i predeploys
[19:37] <scottyjames> i have a 42" durachute
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[19:38] <scottyjames> btw does Diameter at Launch (m) mean the diameter of the parachute?
[19:38] <natrium42> for weather baloon, i just tie the string many times around the nozzle
[19:38] <natrium42> then fold the nozzle over itself and tie the string around that as well
[19:38] <junderwood> tie the top of the parachute to the balloon and the bottom to the payload
[19:39] <natrium42> yeah
[19:39] <natrium42> then i add a rotating link between chute and balloon
[19:39] <natrium42> and a carabiner hook is nice too, then you can hook it in quickly
[19:39] <scottyjames> humm ok.
[19:40] <junderwood> To stop the balloon twisting the parachute / payload or vice versa?
[19:40] <natrium42> junderwood, yeah, that's the idea
[19:40] <scottyjames> with burst 1A is the diamter at launch refering to parachute diameter?
[19:40] <natrium42> not sure if it actually helps or not
[19:40] <natrium42> no, burst1a is just for the balloon
[19:40] <natrium42> parachute calculation is different
[19:40] <junderwood> natrium42, I meant which of the two are you worried about causing the rotation?
[19:40] <natrium42> there are some online calculators for rocketry
[19:41] <natrium42> junderwood, balloon tangling the chute lines
[19:41] <natrium42> that's what i am worried about
[19:41] <junderwood> IC
[19:41] <junderwood> Parachute is easy: m x g = 0.5 x rho x V x V x Cd x S
[19:42] <junderwood> m=mass, g=gravity, rho = sea level density, V=terminal velocity Cd=about 0.8 and S is the area of your parachute
[19:42] <natrium42> scottyjames, does your chute have a loop in the center?
[19:42] <natrium42> might need to sew one on
[19:43] <natrium42> some chutes have a line going to the center -- that's pretty nice
[19:44] <natrium42> otherwise make sure the sewn on loop can handle the stress
[19:45] <scottyjames> my shoot is a 44" PML DuraChute, it has a conical chute with a large (8") spill hole in the top
[19:45] <scottyjames> i think i need to sew one in
[19:45] <scottyjames> but how and where to sew it in the middle is what i need to konw
[19:45] <scottyjames> like any sketches online
[19:46] <natrium42> lol
[19:46] <natrium42> maybe something in a form of an X
[19:46] <junderwood> It doesn't have to be dead centre. Just attach your balloon line to a point on the 8" vent.
[19:47] <natrium42> actually, you don't even need to attach it in the middle
[19:47] <natrium42> yeah
[19:47] <natrium42> some of the CUSF launches didn't even have the chute in line with balloon, it just hangs off the side
[19:47] <junderwood> The idea is that when the balloon bursts, the parachute is in about the right place to start working
[19:47] <junderwood> Yuk.
[19:48] <natrium42> but i find that quite scary :P
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[19:48] <natrium42> hey rob
[19:48] <rjharrison> hey natrium42
[19:48] <rjharrison> Hows it going
[19:48] <scottyjames> right
[19:48] <rjharrison> I'm starting work on the xml maker tonight
[19:48] <natrium42> good, predictor is working quite well
[19:48] <rjharrison> hehe cool
[19:48] <natrium42> i wrote a script to convert it to JSON
[19:49] <rjharrison> You have been playing with the grib then
[19:49] <rjharrison> HOw big was the data
[19:49] <natrium42> a little
[19:49] <natrium42> 222MB for 3 hours global
[19:49] <rjharrison> humm
[19:49] <rjharrison> ouch
[19:49] <natrium42> so too much bandwith for my server
[19:49] <scottyjames> so if i was going to sew a hole in the parachute, i would do a loop in the spin hole. and tie the braided cord through the sewed loop and then onwards to the balloon?
[19:49] <natrium42> but i don't really need global
[19:49] <rjharrison> so you need t tf 222mb every 6 hours then
[19:49] <natrium42> i'll just do a nice caching scheme
[19:50] <natrium42> scottyjames, that's possible too
[19:50] <rjharrison> natrium42 well of we put launch loaction in the xml you can pull the necessary
[19:50] <junderwood> scottyjames, if the parachute is strong enough to support the payload you could just use two lengths of cord - one above and one below
[19:50] <natrium42> or if your loop can handle the stress, you don't even need to feed it through to payload
[19:50] <rjharrison> If it's easy to workout what you need automagically
[19:50] <junderwood> snap
[19:51] <natrium42> rjharrison, don't even need that
[19:51] <natrium42> i'll just get the grib when it's needed
[19:51] <scottyjames> im a bit confused lol
[19:51] <scottyjames> any pics online how to do this?
[19:52] <rjharrison> its easier to run the string through the center hole and use a piece of hard foam / card board to support the chute
[19:53] <rjharrison> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/2961914184/in/set-72157608235936214/
[19:53] <rjharrison> scottyjames ^^^
[19:53] F4EIR (~5c8d7a15@gateway/web/freenode/x-tmghjoduenxpfxje) joined #highaltitude.
[19:53] <rjharrison> Hi F4EIR
[19:53] <F4EIR> Hi rjharrison
[19:53] <F4EIR> Hi all
[19:54] <rjharrison> F4EIR I guess your waiting for a lunach to track :)
[19:54] <F4EIR> what's new in the project ?
[19:54] <natrium42> icarus III better be done soon
[19:54] <natrium42> :)
[19:54] <rjharrison> I'm hoping to launch in the next good weather window
[19:54] <rjharrison> natrium42 it will be I'm looking forward to testing the predictor
[19:55] <rjharrison> especially whaen it's on a sensitive area and I'll be wishing it wrong :)
[19:55] <F4EIR> rjharrison: ok , I will make my best if i could
[19:55] <natrium42> rjharrison, haha, so you want me to finish it eh...
[19:55] <rjharrison> F4EIR if you have a yagi on 70 cms there is a very good change that you will get something
[19:55] <rjharrison> natrium42 yeah I guess
[19:56] <rjharrison> But put in code which will move the payload to a favorable location
[19:56] <rjharrison> :)
[19:56] <natrium42> lol
[19:56] <natrium42> if only weather worked that way
[19:56] <rjharrison> You could play god then
[19:57] <F4EIR> Did you have a idea of the window ? 2 next saturday are full ..:(
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[19:57] <scottyjames> right
[19:57] <rjharrison> F4EIR I don't think I can launch for at least the next 2 weeks
[19:57] <scottyjames> i see the picture but no cardboard?
[19:58] <rjharrison> but I'm hoping to be up very soon after that
[19:58] <rjharrison> the wife is away this weekend so this is out
[19:58] <F4EIR> ok
[19:58] <rjharrison> If the weather was very good the following then I would go up
[19:59] <scottyjames> i get the tieing the bottom of the parachture to the payload cord. like in the picture but the top runs through the cord too?
[19:59] <junderwood> Mothers' Day! Brave man.
[20:00] <F4EIR> which program did you use for predictions ?
[20:00] <rjharrison> scottyjames basically you want to hold the parachue upright as in the picture to prevent it opening on the way up
[20:00] <junderwood> and to make sure it opens on the way down
[20:00] <scottyjames> ah
[20:00] <scottyjames> i see
[20:00] <rjharrison> So as you say tie the bottom to the payload as you would expect
[20:01] <rjharrison> then the top needs to be held in such a position that it will open on the way down but not on the way up
[20:01] <scottyjames> so the card board is spraying out the center of the payload abit?
[20:02] <rjharrison> one sec I'll do you a bad picture
[20:03] <scottyjames> cheers much appreciated
[20:06] <F4EIR> you have a website for the pictures ?
[20:06] <scottyjames> umm
[20:07] <scottyjames> one second
[20:07] <rjharrison> F4EIR www.robertharrison.org/icarus
[20:07] <rjharrison> scottyjames http://www.robertharrison.org/images/various/Queeky_pic.jpg
[20:07] <scottyjames> http://imageshack.us/
[20:07] <scottyjames> oh ok
[20:08] <scottyjames> ah i see thats what i thought
[20:08] <scottyjames> cool
[20:08] <rjharrison> It's more like kindergarden but you get the idea
[20:08] <scottyjames> and how would u suggest getting the card/foam to stay in that position
[20:08] <scottyjames> ?
[20:08] <scottyjames> just make it rigid?
[20:08] <rjharrison> Bit of tape around the payload string
[20:08] <scottyjames> ( will have to have a hole through it
[20:09] <scottyjames> ah ok
[20:09] <F4EIR> thank you
[20:09] <scottyjames> cool
[20:09] <scottyjames> much appreciated
[20:09] <rjharrison> cut a slit in the card/ foam to give it some friction
[20:09] <scottyjames> yeah
[20:09] <rjharrison> Keep the canopy a bit saggy if you pull tight it wont open on the way down
[20:09] <rjharrison> Have a play you will see what I mean very quickly
[20:10] <junderwood> you don't really want the card to block the vent on the way down either - the vent is there for a reason
[20:10] <scottyjames> yeah
[20:10] <scottyjames> so how would u stop that then, just have thin card?
[20:10] <rjharrison> F4EIR http://www.robertharrison.org/icarus/wordpress/?page_id=125
[20:10] <rjharrison> This is a good link with pictures
[20:11] <scottyjames> kk
[20:11] <rjharrison> scottyjames just make a cross out of foam
[20:11] <rjharrison> I have a rule of thirds too
[20:11] <scottyjames> oh ok i get you
[20:11] <rjharrison> If you are relying on the balloon bursting
[20:11] <scottyjames> cool cool
[20:11] <scottyjames> rule of thirds?
[20:12] <rjharrison> Tie para a 2/3 rds length of string and balloon at the top
[20:12] <rjharrison> On the way down the balloon remains will keep out of the way of the payload
[20:12] <rjharrison> typical length total is 20meters
[20:13] <scottyjames> what humm ok
[20:13] <rjharrison> personally what nomally happens on the way down the canopy lifts up off the foam / card and air flows through the hole
[20:13] <scottyjames> i have 5meter nylon cord, for the payload, parachute, and baloonn
[20:14] <scottyjames> ballon. do i need longer?
[20:14] <rjharrison> scottyjames proably not though it is a good idea to keep the balloon away from the payload if you are not cutting the connting string
[20:14] <rjharrison> ie relying on burst
[20:15] <rjharrison> as it is common for the whole balloon to come back with the payload
[20:15] <scottyjames> so 5meters ok?
[20:15] <scottyjames> yeah
[20:15] <scottyjames> bascially longer the string is better or worse?
[20:15] <rjharrison> Personally for the cost of the string I woulf make it 15 - 20 meteras
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[20:15] <rjharrison> better in many ways
[20:15] <scottyjames> so i need 15 meters
[20:16] <rjharrison> Not good for pyro cutdown as you will have to run long wires
[20:16] <rjharrison> yep
[20:16] <scottyjames> cool
[20:16] <rjharrison> in a word
[20:16] <rjharrison> scottyjames where are you and how close are you to launch
[20:16] <scottyjames> so like the parachute will be connected half way up so 7.5 meters up the cord?
[20:16] <scottyjames> i can launch for saturday
[20:16] <rjharrison> F4EIR natrium42 has some good pictures on his website too
[20:17] <scottyjames> and spoken to edd at churchill site, who says i can do it saturday
[20:17] <scottyjames> trying to work out the getting there directions bit, when he's not too bus
[20:17] <rjharrison> no para at 14m and balloon at top assuming 20m
[20:17] <scottyjames> oh ok
[20:18] <rjharrison> para halfway means that the balloon remains will wrap around the payload
[20:18] <scottyjames> oh ok
[20:18] <rjharrison> scottyjames any pics and where is the launch loaction?
[20:18] <rjharrison> oj soory
[20:18] <rjharrison> cambridge
[20:18] <scottyjames> so parachute 14 meters up and balloon at 20 meters up
[20:18] <scottyjames> yeah cambridge churchhill site
[20:18] <F4EIR> rjharrison: i can ear you this saturday
[20:18] <scottyjames> this saturday
[20:18] <scottyjames> ears location?
[20:19] <scottyjames> the ears site you mean?
[20:19] <rjharrison> scottyjames churchill if it's ed
[20:19] <scottyjames> i need the helium, and churchill site said they have some that i can use
[20:19] <F4EIR> wrong word sorry, i'm not free for the lunch
[20:19] <scottyjames> yeah chruchill sight
[20:20] <rjharrison> scottyjames do you have a pic of the payload?
[20:20] <rjharrison> F4EIR no problem
[20:20] <scottyjames> i tested my payload at -63 C for 40 mins, with no condensation :)
[20:20] <rjharrison> scottyjames cool
[20:20] <scottyjames> so everything is tested and ready
[20:20] <Laurenceb> sup folks
[20:20] <rjharrison> scottyjames is there a poject page
[20:21] <rjharrison> What's going up?
[20:21] <Laurenceb> scottyjames: where are you based?
[20:21] <scottyjames> umm i haven't made one apart from my kent university project profile
[20:21] <Laurenceb> ah cool, good luck
[20:21] <scottyjames> i am at kent univeristy
[20:21] <rjharrison> Laurenceb kent I guess :)
[20:21] <rjharrison> I assume you're sending a camera up
[20:21] <scottyjames> laurenceb?
[20:22] <scottyjames> yep 8.6 mega pixels
[20:22] <scottyjames> its very good!
[20:22] <rjharrison> nice
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> yu tested it taking pictures?
[20:22] <rjharrison> Be nice to see a pic of the payload
[20:22] <rjharrison> and a quick explaination of what it does
[20:22] <rjharrison> any sensors?
[20:25] <scottyjames> yeah
[20:25] <scottyjames> sure i have pics i could upload them
[20:26] <scottyjames> i have seen your wiki ukhas page, can anyone put a project up there?
[20:26] <scottyjames> im happy to put mine up there
[20:26] <jonsowman> yup just sign up
[20:26] <jonsowman> :)
[20:27] <scottyjames> ok cool
[20:27] <scottyjames> will do it soonish
[20:28] <scottyjames> can i get some advice
[20:28] <scottyjames> my camera lasts 2 hours (taking pictures every 5 mins while tiliting)
[20:28] <scottyjames> when i did the burst xls
[20:28] <scottyjames> it says
[20:28] <scottyjames> The balloon has volume 3.003m3 at launch, will burst at 34158m, will have an ascent rate of 212m/min and will take 161.14 minutes to burst.
[20:29] <jonsowman> sounds about right
[20:29] <jonsowman> does the camera get powered off when its not taking pics?
[20:29] <scottyjames> an way to get the balloon at bursting quicker
[20:29] <scottyjames> before my battery runs out
[20:30] <jonsowman> well it will go up quicker if you put more helium in
[20:30] <jonsowman> but it will also burst a lower alt
[20:30] <jonsowman> better to try and get the cam to run longer if possible
[20:30] <jonsowman> is it running on internal batteries?
[20:34] <scottyjames> yeah i will thinking that
[20:34] <scottyjames> yeah internal batteries
[20:34] <scottyjames> i cant get bigger ones
[20:34] <jonsowman> what camera?
[20:34] <scottyjames> samsung digimax
[20:35] <scottyjames> v800
[20:35] <jonsowman> how are you getting it to take pictures
[20:35] <scottyjames> i have a servo driver tiltiing it and trigering the remote control
[20:35] <jonsowman> ah right
[20:35] <jonsowman> hmm well you run it off external batteries
[20:35] <jonsowman> or investigate powering the camera off between photographs
[20:36] <jonsowman> also you could do things like disconnect the LCD backlight power, that'll save on battery
[20:36] <scottyjames> humm yeah
[20:38] <jonsowman> i think those are your main options really
[20:38] <jonsowman> powering the camera off is the one i tend to go for
[20:39] <jonsowman> very easy with canon chdk-able cams
[20:42] <scottyjames> humm i could delay to take a picture every 30 seconds and not every 5 seconds.
[20:42] <scottyjames> but i dont think that would help very much.
[20:59] <scottyjames> its so clear cut my window on my payload where the camera is.
[21:00] <natrium42> scottyjames, is the camera battery a li-ion?
[21:09] <scottyjames> yes
[21:09] <natrium42> good
[21:09] <scottyjames> and it survied the enviromental chamber at -63 C fine
[21:09] <scottyjames> for 1 hour
[21:10] <natrium42> nice :)
[21:10] <scottyjames> whole test lasted 2.3 hours
[21:10] <scottyjames> just trying to get higher capcity batteries
[21:10] <natrium42> does the camera have a DC jack?
[21:11] <scottyjames> no
[21:11] <scottyjames> battery dock only
[21:12] <scottyjames> basically the camera will last for 2 hrs 10 mins max
[21:12] <scottyjames> and i need it to last 2 hrs 30 mins when it reaches 34,000 meters
[21:12] <natrium42> is that at room temperature?
[21:12] <scottyjames> what room temp
[21:12] <scottyjames> ?
[21:12] <scottyjames> the 2.3 hours was in the enviro chmaber
[21:12] <scottyjames> -60 C for 40 mins
[21:12] <natrium42> even lithium batteries have worse capacity at low temperature
[21:13] <scottyjames> from 23 C down to -50 C 40 mins then -60 then slowly back up
[21:13] <natrium42> so if camera batteries last 2 hours at room temperature, it will be less at colder temperature
[21:14] <scottyjames> nope
[21:14] <scottyjames> because i did that test :P
[21:14] <scottyjames> (i have a cctv heater unit in my payload) so internal temp of papyload always at room temperutre
[21:14] <scottyjames> :)
[21:15] <scottyjames> thanks to you guys i thought of the heater due to condensation, and it also makes my camera last longer to :)
[21:15] <natrium42> http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
[21:15] <MikeMc68> scottyjames is your 'enviro chamber' just a freezer or is it something you've made ?
[21:17] <scottyjames> i got that pdf im using AA not AAA
[21:18] <natrium42> this is for AA
[21:18] <scottyjames> and the enviromental chamber is an astell chamber
[21:18] <scottyjames> oh sorry, yeah the batteries ( i already used them in the test)
[21:18] <scottyjames> worked a dream
[21:18] <scottyjames> lasted well over 4 hours
[21:18] <natrium42> :)
[21:19] <MikeMc68> is this astell chamber yours ?!
[21:20] <scottyjames> kent universitys ( my uni) they did it with c02 :)
[21:20] <scottyjames> i've got lots of data, temp, light. etc
[21:20] <MikeMc68> ahh
[21:20] <MikeMc68> k
[21:20] <natrium42> very cool
[21:20] <scottyjames> anyone know how to turn the back light lcd off on a digimax?
[21:21] <scottyjames> i have looked through the manual
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> unplug isplay
[21:21] <scottyjames> unplug display?
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> yes
[21:22] <scottyjames> im confused, you can do that on a digital camera
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> well - lacking a software solution.
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> Of course you can.
[21:22] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, did diddy do it?
[21:23] <scottyjames> theres no software for this camera
[21:23] <scottyjames> well i know it will last 2:10 hrs so hopefully it will be enough
[21:23] <SpeedEvil> The inbuilt software for one.
[21:23] <SpeedEvil> external bats may well be easiest
[21:23] <scottyjames> i have looked in the manual it doesn't say
[21:23] <rjharrison> back
[21:24] <scottyjames> camera has a 3.3v out
[21:24] <scottyjames> DC in
[21:24] <scottyjames> humm could plug in external battery
[21:27] <rjharrison> scottyjames try to kep the payload quite light though especially as it's your first
[21:28] <rjharrison> Make sure everything is well tapped ie gaffer tape
[21:28] <rjharrison> Try to imagine teh parachute not working and it hitting a car and if you think the car will be fine your porbably ok :)
[21:30] <rjharrison> scottyjames you are going to have alot more humidity in the atmos compared to the test chamber me thinks
[21:30] <rjharrison> I may be wrong
[21:30] <rjharrison> scottyjames BTW waht is the camera model
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[21:34] <SpeedEvil> s/a car/your car/
[21:37] <F4EIR> info : saturday 11h and 13h TU two french school ballon
[21:37] <F4EIR> from "region Bretagne" near Lannion town
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[21:39] <scottyjames> the humidity from the c02 wasnt too bad in the chmaber
[21:39] <scottyjames> and the sun will heat most humidty above cloud cove
[21:39] <scottyjames> r
[21:39] <scottyjames> the camera is a digimax v800
[21:39] <Randomskk> plenty of cameras end up getting fogged due to humidity that takes too long to clear though
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[21:40] <scottyjames> all i know is that at -60C the window wasn't fogged up massivly
[21:40] <scottyjames> and it was clear at -40
[21:40] <scottyjames> due to the heater inside its always room temp/above
[21:40] <scottyjames> throughout the flight
[21:40] <Randomskk> that's still more testing than the vast majority of flights go through pre-launch, admittedly
[21:41] <scottyjames> :) thanks i have tried my best
[21:41] <Randomskk> are you going to be using the dl network to track it?
[21:41] <scottyjames> want to get amazing pics of wimbledon tennis (my home town)
[21:41] <scottyjames> lol
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> Does it also do pressure tests?
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> And did you ytest it with the camera taking pictures?
[21:41] <scottyjames> ah no i am using gm862 module
[21:41] <scottyjames> and another gps as backup
[21:42] <Randomskk> how're you communicating the other GPS?
[21:42] <scottyjames> works to 18,000 meters and accuracy of 5-8 meters
[21:42] <scottyjames> my mobile
[21:42] <Randomskk> or are all comms over the gm862?
[21:42] <Randomskk> ah, okay
[21:42] <scottyjames> sends sms of its location, speed
[21:42] <scottyjames> long lat
[21:42] <Randomskk> bear in mind you'll lose GSM reception fairly early on and may not land in an area with much coverage
[21:42] <scottyjames> yeah i know
[21:42] <scottyjames> but it will send the last known position
[21:42] <Randomskk> the advantage of having a radio onboard is that you can track it throughout the flight, so it's easier to recover generally
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> scottyjames: if it gets coverage at all
[21:43] <scottyjames> and i will get the gps to contunily send me text
[21:43] <scottyjames> s
[21:43] <Randomskk> but there have been successful launches without radios, so eh
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> scottyjames: phone coverage.
[21:43] <scottyjames> throughout
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> scottyjames: it may not.
[21:43] <natrium42> scottyjames, you need to reset that GPS module if it stops working
[21:43] <scottyjames> yeah i know
[21:43] <natrium42> otherwise it never comes back
[21:43] <natrium42> kk, good
[21:44] <scottyjames> tbh i have done as much as i can low temp tests, atmosphere test of 1 atmosphere pressure
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[21:47] <scottyjames> any safe pre tests for parachutes? other then droping it outside a window
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> wind tunnel
[21:47] <scottyjames> and i cant lower my payload weight
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> Computational fluid dynamics.
[21:48] <scottyjames> ah, dont have one in canters i dont tink
[21:48] <scottyjames> think..
[21:48] <jcoxon> evening all
[21:49] <F4EIR> evening
[21:49] <jcoxon> busy in here tonight
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> yup.
[21:50] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, you causing trouble?
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> Maybe.
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> I'm taking a break from looking for parts for an induction cooker.
[21:50] <natrium42> lol
[21:51] <jcoxon> :-)
[21:52] <scottyjames> why do u need an induction cooker?
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> scottyjames: To cook with.
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> More sensibly - I was pondering the supply of large ones - ~7500W to ebay.
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> A fascinating design. Massive tank, with 20KW of power circulating, and a pan on top.
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> (for 2KW cooker)
[22:02] <jcoxon> oh i've got BH4 back for those who are interested
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> It'd save a lot of time if you just posted it out next time.
[22:09] <Randomskk> :P
[22:09] <jonsowman> lol
[22:11] <jcoxon> hehe my 'postal service' was a lot faster then the return journey
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> Slightly less accurate tho. :)
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[22:16] <jcoxon> well...
[22:18] <jcoxon> MikeMc68, ping
[22:18] <MikeMc68> yo
[22:19] <jcoxon> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9566
[22:22] <MikeMc68> ok
[22:26] <jcoxon> $10 cheaper then the other sparkfun one and a much nicer connector
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[22:32] <MikeMc68> hmm
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[23:14] <Laurenceb> BH$ found
[23:14] <Laurenceb> awesome
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[23:43] <DoYouKnow> hi!!! :)
[23:43] <DoYouKnow> I'm glad that I discovered this group
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[23:44] <DoYouKnow> anyone here do any near space work?
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[23:45] <DoYouKnow> ARHAB
[23:45] <DoYouKnow> etc
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[23:45] <DoYouKnow> well, I had one question. I live near an airport that is quite busy. Is it possible that I could still arrange a launch from my location?
[23:46] <DoYouKnow> probably more questions than that but that's the main one
[23:46] <DoYouKnow> of a high altitude balloon
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[23:50] <DoYouKnow> well, I'll bbiab. I have business to attend to
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[00:00] --- Thu Mar 4 2010