highaltitude.log.20100227

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[00:03] <ms7821> Randomskk: is there any more than that lecture?
[00:03] <Randomskk> I didn't actually go to it; I just got those notes by email and they appear to be the powerpoint presentation the guy gave
[00:04] <ms7821> ahh, well they're interesting enough
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[00:06] <natrium42> edmoore, !!!!
[00:06] <edmoore> yes
[00:06] <natrium42> hi :D
[00:07] <edmoore> hi.
[00:07] <natrium42> XD
[00:08] <natrium42> so, do you know if the github predictor code it working?
[00:08] <edmoore> rich warehams?
[00:08] <edmoore> yes
[00:08] <natrium42> the one with monte carlo stuff
[00:08] <edmoore> oh, not so sure about specifically that, you'll have to ask him
[00:08] <natrium42> cool, i am just looking into adding it to the tracker
[00:08] <edmoore> cool
[00:09] <edmoore> i wouldn't bother with MC for that
[00:09] <edmoore> you just want to ML solution anyway :)
[00:09] <natrium42> hmm
[00:09] <natrium42> so what code should i be using?
[00:10] <edmoore> can you link me to the github you're looking at currently?
[00:10] <natrium42> there are so many versions :P
[00:11] <natrium42> http://github.com/rjw57/cusf-landing-prediction
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[00:11] <edmoore> i think that should just work as-is
[00:14] <natrium42> is it recommended? or should i use the code from the cvs?
[00:14] <edmoore> use rich's
[00:14] <edmoore> it's current and running
[00:15] <natrium42> so the cvs code is not used anymore?
[00:16] <edmoore> that's basically identical to what is in pred_src, except not as debugged and tested
[00:16] <edmoore> rich' stuff is the active branch of what is in websvn, effectively
[00:16] <edmoore> + better grib server interfacing
[00:17] <natrium42> ah, excellent
[00:20] <natrium42> edmoore, so how does your landing spot prediction work
[00:20] <natrium42> do you just feed in the current position or the track so far?
[00:20] <natrium42> because from track-so-far you could maybe get better wind vectors for lower levels than from GFS
[00:21] <edmoore> track so far gives you no info about the future really, as the winds are pretty much uncorrelated at the different levels
[00:21] <edmoore> so you just feed the latest telem pos as the initial condition and re-run
[00:22] <edmoore> we also found that the grib knew better about the winds at level x on the way back down than using the data you collect at level x on the way back
[00:22] <edmoore> 
[00:22] <edmoore> on the way up*
[00:23] <edmoore> because you are usually significantly temporally and spatially different at level x on the way back down to the way back up
[00:23] <natrium42> ah
[00:24] <natrium42> i thought balloon data would be better than the one from weather models (with sparse input)
[00:24] <natrium42> this is quite surprising
[00:24] <edmoore> same. when we tried it, it was a fair bit worse
[00:25] <natrium42> makes it easier then
[00:25] <edmoore> yep
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[02:08] <trialex> OK getting to the last stages of my balloon project, need some advice.
[02:09] <trialex> Currently using my homemade 1m dia parachute, but getting scared, thinking about springing for a commercial 'chute.
[02:11] <trialex> For a 3kg package, I'm thinking maybe a 5ft chute from the-rocketman.com
[02:13] <trialex> Any advice?
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[08:01] <MikeMc68> morning
[08:03] <rjharrison> morning all
[08:03] <rjharrison> hi MikeMc68
[08:19] <juxta> hi all
[08:21] <MikeMc68> hi juxta
[08:21] <juxta> hey MikeMc68
[08:21] <juxta> I sat a course for my ham license today
[08:21] <juxta> terribly boring :(
[08:21] <juxta> our rules are horrible here
[08:23] <MikeMc68> when will you know if you've passed?
[08:23] <juxta> I sit the exam tomorrow
[08:24] <juxta> I'll pass it, it's very easy
[08:24] <MikeMc68> ok
[08:24] <rjharrison> juxta is this for the so called full licence
[08:24] <juxta> but I have to wait 4-5 weeks for the license though
[08:24] <rjharrison> or is there a grading system
[08:24] <juxta> rjharrison: no, this is for foundations - the lowest grade
[08:24] <MikeMc68> same as here
[08:24] <juxta> I asked them for a sample standard test, which I also passed when I ran through it
[08:25] <juxta> but the standard test also has a horrible regulations component
[08:25] <juxta> so whilst I could pass the theory, I would have no chance re the regulations
[08:25] <juxta> I'm looking at a sample paper now, it's 19 pages long
[08:28] <rjharrison> wow just 25 multiguess questions here
[08:28] <juxta> foundations is 25 very easy questions
[08:28] <juxta> but it's not a very good license: no digital modes, 10W max power
[08:31] <MikeMc68> same in UK
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[08:50] <juxta> MikeMc68:
[08:50] <juxta> The call sign suffix group IYA - IYZ is reserved for issue to
[08:50] <juxta> a) visiting amateurs
[08:50] <juxta> b) commemorate United Nations' declared years
[08:50] <juxta> c) specified Youth Groups and schools
[08:50] <juxta> d) stations participating in International contests
[08:51] <juxta> that the sort of thing in the stupid regulations test
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[09:20] <MikeMc68> lol
[09:21] <MikeMc68> Why on earth would a radio operator NEED to know that ?
[09:23] <juxta> not too sure
[09:23] <juxta> turns out it's b
[09:23] <juxta> I've gone over the stuff, I might be OK
[09:24] <juxta> only downside is that the tests cost $67 each and have a 48 hour exclusion period
[09:24] <juxta> so I can't site the standard one, fail the regulations stuff, then do foundations
[09:24] <juxta> I'd have to do foundations, pass it, then pay again and sit standard and hopefully pass the regulations
[09:24] <MikeMc68> bastards !
[09:25] <juxta> oh, and pay $35 for a practical test
[09:25] <juxta> which is basically just powering up a radio and making a transmission in sideband
[09:26] <juxta> oh wait, it says license upgrades are $41
[09:26] <juxta> but that probably won't apply seeing as they take 4 weeks to issue the thing in the first place
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[09:50] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: thanks
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[10:20] <Laurenceb> hi folks
[10:20] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: whats the worst that could happen if I plug a lipo into a 470uF tantalum cap?
[10:22] <MikeMc68> it could go pop
[10:24] <Laurenceb> I dont quite get why
[10:24] <Laurenceb> I mean how is enough energy dissapated
[10:25] <Laurenceb> or is it a case of the feed line inductance?
[10:25] <Laurenceb> creating a high voltage peak ?
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[10:26] <F4EIR> good morning all
[10:27] <MikeMc68> whats the stats for the lipo?
[10:27] <Laurenceb> dunno
[10:27] <Laurenceb> just a general lipo for RC use
[10:27] <Laurenceb> I'm designing a switching supply - it needs a large cap on the battery rail
[10:28] <MikeMc68> oh
[10:28] <MikeMc68> is it a decoupling cap ?
[10:28] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:29] <MikeMc68> ahh - i thought you were just experimenting with connecting caps across batteries
[10:29] <MikeMc68> lol
[10:29] <MikeMc68> in that case it will be fine
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> tantalums do not like fast risetime high current pulses
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> they can explode.
[10:29] <Laurenceb> I see
[10:30] <Laurenceb> one reason for the soft start option I guess
[10:30] <SpeedEvil> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel6%2F33%2F25363%2F01136680.pdf%3Farnumber%3D1136680&authDecision=-203
[10:30] <Laurenceb> - on the lt3467
[10:30] <SpeedEvil> nepp.nasa.gov/DocUploads/68DBDB5C-E91F-451A.../surge.pdf
[10:30] <Laurenceb> not a full url
[10:31] <SpeedEvil> http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:sRMDfLcSBXwJ:nepp.nasa.gov/DocUploads/68DBDB5C-E91F-451A-8F18190A4D0473E5/surge.pdf+tantalum+high+current+failure&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj64c_ECEkhTJ77c53QbDE78F71hVJxym_YDQvtnJLMXCDsT1KN6ItKdm7iEP4LshvWeiUB92nLAqqIMrebBTXlxppyYdSO1LeopI7BYDnhUfWndQCt4EtYWh97AvEXj0wStgam&sig=AHIEtbQ97ujU-6COwzEiqjLEm4husUmopw
[10:31] <SpeedEvil> even
[10:31] <SpeedEvil> cached
[10:34] <SpeedEvil> http://www.kyocera.co.jp/prdct/electro/pdf/technical/dipptant.pdf better
[10:34] <Laurenceb> I see
[10:34] <SpeedEvil> so basically don'tconnect it directly across the battery
[10:35] <Laurenceb> looks like high voltage doesnt help either
[10:36] <Laurenceb> but yeah prob best to avoid it even if its at a low voltage than the cap rating
[10:36] <Laurenceb> problem is aluminium caps are a bit large
[10:38] <SpeedEvil> why more than a ceramic before the smps
[10:39] <Laurenceb> hmm maybe yeah
[10:40] Action: Laurenceb fires up spice to take a look
[10:41] <Laurenceb> its horrendously unstable for some reason
[10:42] <Laurenceb> - under sudden changes in current draw
[10:49] <Laurenceb> hmm interesting
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> ceramic + small al-electrolytic?
[10:49] <Laurenceb> looks like you need ceramic on the output as well
[10:49] <Laurenceb> that seems to be whats destabilising it
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> ah
[10:49] <Laurenceb> I'd gone too large with the caps, and the ESR was too high
[10:50] <Laurenceb> thats one of the main problems
[10:50] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[10:50] <SpeedEvil> what's the operating freq
[10:50] <Laurenceb> 1.2MHz or 2.1MHz
[10:51] <Laurenceb> looks like you just need ceramic caps for the smsp, and maybe one or two tantalums to smooth out current surges
[10:51] <Laurenceb> - tantalums on the output
[10:51] <Laurenceb> if theres too much ripple of the feedback pin it doesnt settle very well
[10:52] <Laurenceb> *on
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> IIRC Ta elects are moderatelyheavier
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[10:58] <Laurenceb> if I use a 10u 0805 ceramic its only got 8mv peak to peak ripple
[10:58] <Laurenceb> cant complain about that
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> nope
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> high MHz switchers are nice that way
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> you're assuming the 10u ceramic has 0 ESR?
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> because high value ceramics aren't great
[11:00] <Laurenceb> nah
[11:00] <Laurenceb> LT have a nice recommended part folder
[11:00] <Laurenceb> just grabbed it out of there - so it has the right ESR etc
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:04] <Laurenceb> it just tends to hunt a little at 35KHz after a sudden change in current draw
[11:04] <Laurenceb> I guess its not that bad - the hunting is mainly in the input current draw - not the output voltage
[11:05] <Laurenceb> I think its partly an interaction of my lipo model with the input capacitance
[11:05] <Laurenceb> probably not a huge problem - especially if the mems isnt running off the smps rail
[11:05] <Laurenceb> which would be stupid anyway
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[11:27] <jcoxon> morning
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> nornign
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> morning.
[11:34] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[11:34] <juxta> morning jcoxon
[11:34] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!jcoxon@host81-129-141-46.range81-129.btcentralplus.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, wiki.ukhas.org.uk, WB8ELK Launch ? 27/2/10 19:00UTC spacenear.us/tracker/
[11:34] <jcoxon> hey ju
[11:34] <jcoxon> juxta,
[11:35] <juxta> oh yay, another launch :D
[11:35] <edmoore> HF on wb8elk?
[11:35] <jcoxon> hehe not in the UK
[11:35] <juxta> did an email go out? maybe the list unsubscribed me again :(
[11:35] <jcoxon> edmoore, nah 70cm rtty, dominiex and hellschriber
[11:36] <edmoore> maybe the DL will catch on in the states
[11:36] <edmoore> i understand the US ballooners can enrage the APRS network
[11:36] <jcoxon> thats the plan
[11:36] <juxta> edmoore: enrage how so?
[11:36] <edmoore> as basically every APRS gate in the US is in range of a hab aprs beacon
[11:36] <jcoxon> my thinking is that if they've installed dl-fldigi for a wb8elk flight then they'll be all set to listen for a tran-sa
[11:36] <jcoxon> trans-a*
[11:36] <juxta> ahh, I see
[11:37] <juxta> jcoxon: how did you get on with the radio?
[11:37] <jcoxon> juxta, swapped to optoisolators - have got it shifting freq up and down
[11:37] <jcoxon> then had a fight with linux getting soundcards to work
[11:37] <jcoxon> but now have it inputting in to dl-fldigi
[11:37] <juxta> nice, is it a case of keeping the circuit closed to keep it scrolling? or do you have to pulse it?
[11:38] <jcoxon> if you pulse it, it shifts once
[11:38] <jcoxon> if you hold it it'll scan
[11:38] <juxta> nifty
[11:38] <DanielRichman> connected to an arduino, then usb?
[11:38] <juxta> workable to move a few mhz etc?
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> you wired it across the buttons?
[11:39] <juxta> or will you need to change the step size too?
[11:39] <juxta> SpeedEvil: I think directly into the interface pins on the mic socket
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:41] <jcoxon> juxta, we need to work on a frontend
[11:41] <jcoxon> :-)
[11:42] <juxta> web based?
[11:42] <juxta> should be pretty easy
[11:43] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: http://www.falcom.de/typo3temp/pics/7d7ec0b731.jpg
[11:43] <SpeedEvil> can't see pics atm
[11:43] <Laurenceb> do you think thats a TCXO at the upper right?
[11:43] <juxta> Laurenceb: I bought 2 of those the other day
[11:43] <Laurenceb> they are very nice
[11:43] <juxta> cheap too :)
[11:43] <Laurenceb> trying to work out if it will run at 2.7v or 3v
[11:43] <juxta> datasheet is a bit skimpy, isnt it
[11:43] <Laurenceb> the ublox5 doesnt main that voltage
[11:44] <Laurenceb> wondering if its the tcxo
[11:44] <Laurenceb> yes
[11:44] <juxta> when mine comes I can test it and tell you
[11:44] <MikeMc68> UK guys - where is the cheapest place to get those ublox units?
[11:45] <Laurenceb> juxta: I have one - it seems to work
[11:45] <juxta> shipping wasnt bad for me from esawdust MikeMc68, but I guess somewhere local would be better
[11:45] <Laurenceb> but I want to be sure it will meet specs
[11:45] <juxta> ah
[11:45] <Laurenceb> annoyingly that ublox5 QFN datasheet is NDA
[11:45] <juxta> maybe email falcom
[11:45] <Laurenceb> but the flyer seems to suggest 2.7 to 3.6v operation
[11:46] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:46] <Laurenceb> falcom say 3.3v +-5%
[11:46] <jcoxon> MikeMc68, check out sequioa
[11:46] <jcoxon> juxta, yeah
[11:47] <jcoxon> if only there was away to tap into fldigi to get the waterfall out so we could make that web based
[11:47] <juxta> hmm
[11:47] <juxta> you could do that sort of
[11:47] <juxta> have it screenshotted and fed to the page
[11:47] <juxta> somewhat hackish I guess :)
[11:47] <jcoxon> hehe, yeah
[11:47] <edmoore> jcoxon: the websdr stuff might be open source?
[11:49] <jcoxon> they've sped websdr up
[11:49] <jcoxon> it runs a lot better now
[11:50] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, you could start a vnc server
[11:51] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:52] <jcoxon> but we've found that the waterfall doesn't do great over vnc
[11:52] <jcoxon> at least with a normal broadband conncetion
[12:03] <DanielRichman> hmm
[12:03] <DanielRichman> Well I can help with a web interface to your arduino thing if you want
[12:04] <DanielRichman> MikeMc68, jcoxon, is this the one? http://www.sequoia.co.uk/shop/product.php?p=807
[12:04] <jcoxon> yeah
[12:05] <jcoxon> will bbl
[12:05] <jcoxon> cya
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[12:05] <SpeedEvil> the spectrum graph works better
[12:05] <DanielRichman> Are the things that look like pads round the breadboard-size?
[12:05] <DanielRichman> *spacing
[12:06] <MikeMc68> DanielRichman: Yes. Shame they don't sell the breakouts like esawdust do though.
[12:06] <DanielRichman> There's an eval. kit though there on that site I think
[12:06] <DanielRichman> MikeMc68, so I just have to solder some .1 headers to it and plug in
[12:06] <DanielRichman> *except for the bottom row which I would short out
[12:07] <juxta> the eval kits are very expensive from what I've seen
[12:08] <DanielRichman> mmm
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[13:55] <juxta> tittux: irc as root? ;p
[14:07] <H__> that's plain sad
[14:13] <Randomskk> some people like living life on the edge
[14:15] <SpeedEvil> And root is not always important
[14:15] <SpeedEvil> for several years I ran with a normal user account called root
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[14:18] <Randomskk> and of course you can set your ircname to anything you want
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[14:24] <WillD_> does anyone know any good UK sources of helium at a reasonable price?
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> ebay!
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> (though not actually great price)
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> Considered H2?
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[14:25] <WillD_> yeah - possibility of hydrogen too - probably cheaper
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> I'm pondering doing a natural gas balloon sometime.
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> Simply because I'm lazy and there is a tap in the kitchen.
[14:32] <Randomskk> how does it compare, cost wise?
[14:33] <WillD_> would natural gas work? lift-wise?
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> 1m^3 is about 30p.
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> no, not well.
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> it's half atmospheric weight
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> so it's obviously a lot worse as a lifting gas
[14:41] <Randomskk> oh god, the badger2 PCB is complicated
[14:41] <Randomskk> and by complicated I mean upwards of 500 DRC errors
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> probably simply spacings
[14:41] <Randomskk> a lot of them are
[14:41] <Randomskk> but they're still around even on 6mil
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> you autorouting it?
[14:42] <Randomskk> heck no
[14:42] <Randomskk> though it is already routed
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> you need to set the design rules before doing routing
[14:42] <Randomskk> I haven't actually touched it yet, just looking through it
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> then it keeps out automatically - you can't draw over a pad
[14:43] <Randomskk> this is the design ed & fergus routed last summer iirc
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[14:44] <Randomskk> it has quite a lot going on
[14:44] <Randomskk> and a few silly errors that need fixing, but it's easy to see how they happened
[14:44] <Randomskk> especially in the noise of this many DRC errors
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[16:00] <rjharrison> Afternnon all
[16:00] Action: rjharrison nods to edmoore
[16:00] <edmoore> hi
[16:08] <F4EIR> hi all
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[16:09] <F4EIR> i try to make dlclient working for next time but i have some trouble
[16:10] <F4EIR> can anyone help me ?
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[16:28] <rjharrison> F4EIR sure what's the problem?
[16:30] <rjharrison> For the math heads out there how does one go about foinding the largest integer divison of a number without a remainder? eg for 100 its 50
[16:30] <rjharrison> for 31250 it's ?
[16:30] <rjharrison> I guess div 2 then dive 3 then 4 untill I hit it :)
[16:30] <ms7821> factorise, take largest factor
[16:30] <ms7821> oh I see what you mean
[16:30] <ms7821> factorise, divide by lowest factor
[16:31] <rjharrison> Actually I'm being thick here :)
[16:31] <rjharrison> Nothing new there :)
[16:33] <DanielRichman> div 2, div 3, div 5 until you get an integer, which is your largest factor... only bother dividing by prime numbers
[16:33] <DanielRichman> for 31250 it's easy since it divides by 2... or do you need to know more ?
[16:33] <ms7821> DanielRichman: and stop at n^0.5, of course
[16:34] <DanielRichman> yes, at which point your prime-number-generator should inform you that the next prime number is your input itself
[16:34] <ms7821> yikes, that'll be nasty code
[16:34] <DanielRichman> providing the input number isn't too big... allocate n/8 bytes of ram
[16:35] <DanielRichman> try 2, if it works, print result, otherwise set bits 2, 4, 6... to 1...
[16:35] <DanielRichman> try next unset bit (3) and if that doesn't work shade 2, 6, 9, ...
[16:35] <ms7821> well the thing is there are usually libraries to return nth factor
[16:36] <ms7821> so you don't need to implement it yourself
[16:36] <DanielRichman> unless he wants speed
[16:36] <ms7821> (and they work efficiently with large numbers if you need)
[16:36] <ms7821> s/speed/to work on an embedded system/
[16:38] <DanielRichman> either way, since his request to find a factor is quite specific, you might be able to squeese more speed out of that method (I forget its name) even on a desktop vs a generic library
[16:38] <ms7821> depends on input range, and whether it's needed. sieve of eratosthenes becomes inefficient very quickly
[16:39] <F4EIR> i use fldigi 3.12.5 and i have install python like in wiki and dlclient7
[16:40] <DanielRichman> got it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_of_Eratosthenes
[16:40] <F4EIR> first run it ask for information call, lon lat, rig, antenna and say write config file
[16:40] <DanielRichman> ms7821, gah you beat me to it
[16:40] <DanielRichman> I had forgotten its name
[16:41] <F4EIR> then i restart script and i had an error Traceback (most recent call last): File "C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py", line 325, in RunScript exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__ File "C:\ballonballast\client7.py", line 119, in <module> user_identity = config.get('User Conf', 'user') File "C:\Python26\lib\ConfigParser.py", line 311, in get raise NoSectionError(section) NoSe
[16:42] <DanielRichman> F4EIR, dlclient installs its own copy of (modified) fldigi if i remember correctly
[16:42] <DanielRichman> are you running that or a vanilla fldigi?
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[16:43] <F4EIR> no, you need install fldigi ans start it, then start the script
[16:44] <ms7821> is the config file being written?
[16:45] <DanielRichman> F4EIR, which wiki page are you reading instructions from?
[16:45] <F4EIR> oh sorry, the file was created but nothinf write donw
[16:46] <F4EIR> DanielRichman, this one http://spacenear.us/wiki/doku.php?id=dlistening:client
[16:46] <DanielRichman> hmm. Unless you need specific functionality from that one it's a bit clunky. F4EIR, all you're trying to do is listen right? http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide is easier
[16:48] <rjharrison> F4EIR We abandoned the python script a while back
[16:49] <rjharrison> As DanielRichman said the new way is to install the dl-fldigi aplication and it will do most of the magick for you
[16:50] <rjharrison> Basically it fldigi with an early fork and sentances recieved are passed to the child and sent to the server using curl
[16:50] <F4EIR> ah ok
[16:50] <rjharrison> F4EIR sorry about that could you let me know where the instructions were as we need to remove those
[16:50] <rjharrison> Sorry for the inconveniance
[16:51] <F4EIR> i'll going to read this page, you mabe have a new listener/logger in France
[16:51] <rjharrison> F4EIR yes pleas
[16:51] <rjharrison> F4EIR yes please
[16:51] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, they're on spacenear.us's wiki linked somewhere above
[16:51] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, http://spacenear.us/wiki/doku.php?id=dlistening:client
[16:52] <F4EIR> no problem, it explain wy i can use it since 2 days ... lol
[16:52] <rjharrison> Will get that removed as soon as possible
[16:53] <rjharrison> F4EIR some instructions here http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dlistener
[16:53] <rjharrison> http://code.google.com/p/dl-fldigi/downloads/list
[16:54] <rjharrison> The code & binarys are here
[16:54] <DanielRichman> and http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[16:54] <F4EIR> i have make many research for found it, it's not easy. Or i have a wrong start browser page
[16:54] <rjharrison> Please set up your location in the operator section
[16:54] <rjharrison> And if you run it you should appear on the loggers map
[16:55] <rjharrison> http://code.google.com/p/dl-fldigi/downloads/list
[16:55] <rjharrison> F4EIR Sorry about that it is hidden away I'm afraid
[16:56] <F4EIR> ok i will try, and y keep an eye on big wings coming from spain
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[17:03] <smithder> Hello, is there any way to view traffic for say the last 30min
[17:06] <edmoore> smithder: chat channel trafic?
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[17:11] <smithder> Yes, this channel traffic, just before I signed on ?
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[17:14] <F4EIR> thank you for all, i'm now QRV
[17:15] <F4EIR> i see my data in the raw page
[17:16] <DanielRichman> smithder, http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/zeusbot/highaltitude.log.20100227
[17:19] <smithder> Thanks Daniel
[17:20] <F4EIR> last question: how did you make a nickname in red to tell it ,
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[17:25] <ms7821> F4EIR, say it at the start of the line?
[17:27] <F4EIR> yes like you just make
[17:27] <ms7821> :)
[17:34] <DanielRichman> F4EIR, type the first few letters of someones name, then press TAB. That will autocomplete their name. However the real answer to your question is: if your IRC client receives a message with your name mentioned somewhere in it, It will try to notify you, by highlighting or beeping, etc.
[17:36] <F4EIR> DanielRichman: ok thank you. I'm throu freenode for the moment
[17:58] <MikeMc68> evening
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[19:36] <smithder> jacoxon posted a link to the flightcomputer:code page, and in it is a reference to gravity wave experience "From past experience gravity waves are significant,"
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[19:38] <smithder> The link shows a chart on p23 reporting gravity waves from Trope up to float 0 and then they stop...
[19:38] <smithder> Isn't it more likely that these oscilations are a function of the flight and not gravity waves as reported ?
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[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:25] <smithder> Lunar_Lander: Hi, is it usually this quiet here ?
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> yes, there are periods of silence
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> it disturbed me too first
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> but you get used to it ;)
[20:26] <russss> that's the way IRC works :P
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> are you new here?
[20:26] <Hiena> Can't concentrate to the right mixture ration, in the noise.
[20:27] <smithder> Yes, more used to a forum or wiki environment
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> so do you want the cute or the brutal welcoming present :P?
[20:28] <Hiena> Or a hindsight.
[20:28] <smithder> go on then - brutal
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N_Bby9AKBc&feature=related
[20:29] <Hiena> Ehem.
[20:29] <smithder> Yek - what mixture did you use ?
[20:31] <smithder> Still, I suppose you can't say on here - will be watching for key words - still, pretty dirty bang...
[20:32] <smithder> That was BB will be watching
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:32] <Hiena> Talking about the mixtures: Never ever try to mix up ammonium-nitrate, hydrogen-peroxide, and NaOH. Also, the bottle labeling is critical in the lab.
[20:32] <smithder> what ?
[20:33] <smithder> No way...
[20:34] <natrium42> Hiena, speaking from experience? :)
[20:37] <Hiena> Yeah. Usually my hindsights came after the experience. Toyed with some nitrate, and after soaking with some peroxide, i missed the milled nitrate tube with the NaOH. Minus one test tube.
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> btw you remind me
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> you got that "How to get started" text on the wiki right?
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[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> what about a do/don't list?
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> I have an idea for a don't: "Having breaking glass or melting devices in the balloon"
[20:40] <natrium42> haha
[20:41] <natrium42> "don't launch your pets"
[20:43] <Laurenceb> hi all
[20:43] <smithder> Melting device is very useful as a cut free to prevent landing in the wet stuff
[20:44] <Laurenceb> yeah hot resistor cutters ftw
[20:45] <Hiena> Yeah. The cats lousy co-pilots and camera operators.
[20:46] <natrium42> Hiena, i found this for you --> http://www.scienceteecher.com/Stand-Back-Try-Science-T-shirt.html
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:47] <Hiena> Back the time, when i worked at a aircraft service and maintenance company, we had several aborted test flights due the "cat onboard malfunction".
[20:49] <rjharrison> hEY natrium42
[20:50] <natrium42> hi
[20:50] <rjharrison> natrium42 can you remove the old tracker stuff from spacenear.us
[20:51] <rjharrison> There is some stuff about the python client on there
[20:51] <rjharrison> and some french guy spent the last two days trying to get the python client working
[20:52] <rjharrison> Might be best to point it to the UKHAS stuff
[20:52] <natrium42> kk
[20:54] <natrium42> hrm, i don't remember my username
[20:54] <natrium42> and password
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[21:12] <smithder> jacoxon posted a link to the flightcomputer:code page, and in it is a reference to gravity wave experience "From past experience gravity waves are significant,"
[21:12] <smithder> The link shows a chart on p23 reporting gravity waves from Trope up to float 0 and then they stop...
[21:13] <smithder> Isn't it more likely that these oscilations are a function of the flight and not gravity waves as reported ?
[21:13] <Randomskk> I think he may have been slightly tongue-in-cheek
[21:14] <smithder> why ?
[21:14] <Laurenceb> gravity waves have a big effect
[21:15] <smithder> it is a nasa doc, I don'r think they are kidding http://mysite.verizon.net/milkyway99/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/systemsseminarfarley2008.pdf
[21:17] <Laurenceb> yeah he ran some sims for us
[21:17] <Randomskk> ah, fair enough
[21:17] <smithder> Why should they suddenly stop when the balloon reached float ?
[21:20] <Laurenceb> graph?
[21:21] <smithder> Laurenceb: p23
[21:21] <russss> that graph doesn't show the gravity waves stopping at float
[21:21] <russss> it just shows the average ascent rate dropping to 0
[21:22] <smithder> the g waves were apparently affecting the ascent prior to float, so why not after?
[21:23] <russss> because it's not ascending?
[21:23] <smithder> but the balloon is still in the air being driven by the g waves - it can't be immune just because it is not ascending ?
[21:24] <russss> I don't understand what you're saying. that graph shows the waves at float
[21:25] <smithder> it shows oscillations when float is reached - sort of bobbing up and down - they die out.
[21:26] <russss> they don't die out completely though
[21:27] <Laurenceb> thats bouyancy oscillation
[21:27] <Laurenceb> excited by the transition to float
[21:29] <smithder> so is the final stable float oscillation due to g waves ?
[21:29] <russss> yes
[21:29] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:29] <smithder> Ahh thanks
[21:30] <smithder> What do you think amplifies the g wave on the approach to float ?
[21:32] <russss> it's just the balloon overshooting the float altitude and then oscillating until it finds it
[21:33] <smithder> that g wave seems to be going on for over seven hours with a wavelength of 12 min - is that normal ?
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[21:34] <Laurenceb> pretty much
[21:36] <smithder> It is still going up at ca 4 - 5 m/s doesn't seem to be near float point to me...
[21:36] <smithder> until it reaches 2 hrs in
[21:40] <smithder> my mistake, the wavelength is ca 5 min is that normal ?
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[21:45] <rjharrison> Yo juxta you woken up down there
[21:48] <juxta> hey rjharrison
[21:48] <juxta> yeah
[21:48] <juxta> just got up
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[22:05] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!jcoxon@host81-129-141-46.range81-129.btcentralplus.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, wiki.ukhas.org.uk, WB8ELK Launch ?? 28/2/10 19:00UTC spacenear.us/tracker/
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[22:15] <MikeMc68> Who is launching tomorrow?
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[22:39] <MikeMc68> The header for the channel mentions a launch tomorrow but there is nothing in the UKHAS website
[22:40] <fsphil> its a US launch I believe
[22:41] <MikeMc68> Oh
[22:41] <MikeMc68> darn :(
[22:41] <fsphil> yea, I gor my 70cm yagi on friday - was hoping to try it out.
[22:41] <MikeMc68> you'll need a very tall pole
[22:42] <fsphil> indeed!
[22:42] Action: SpeedEvil hands fsphil a 10000km roll of coax.
[22:42] <fsphil> maybe I can get a reflection of the ISS :)
[22:43] <russss> gah, I just did a Farnell order and forgot to get the stuff I needed, again.
[22:43] <russss> fail
[22:43] <fsphil> been there, done that
[22:44] <fsphil> never admit to it though :)
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[22:55] <fsphil> are there any uk launches on the horizon?
[22:55] <russss> someone should do a good old launch with a camera
[22:56] <fsphil> yea
[22:56] <MikeMc68> that's what I will be doing when I can find time to work on mine
[22:56] <russss> meh, maybe I should do one ;)
[22:56] <russss> (as if I have the time)
[22:56] <MikeMc68> I have 11 days off work at the end of March and I intend on using the time to work on my payload ready for launch
[22:57] <fsphil> I'm working on a little payload that might get launched - only a 640x480 camera though
[22:57] <russss> what are you putting in the payload MikeMc68?
[22:58] <russss> if I did a launch I'd probably just thieve james's design and build an atlas clone
[22:58] <MikeMc68> payload will be :- camera, GPS, transmitter, temp sensor, pressure sensor and UV sensor
[22:58] <natrium42> russss, russss rjharrison is working on one http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/4387329668/in/photostream/
[22:59] <russss> ah yes, I saw that before
[23:02] <fsphil> good bit of woodworking
[23:03] <fsphil> oh that's foam
[23:03] Action: fsphil is half asleep
[23:03] <natrium42> :)
[23:03] <russss> good bit of foamworking
[23:03] <russss> :P
[23:05] <fsphil> I wonder if that servo will be remote controlled, or automated
[23:05] <natrium42> i am pretty sure it will be automated
[23:06] <fsphil> yea - without live images a remote control would be pretty useless
[23:06] <natrium42> not sure what remote control would get you as you don't see the viewfinder
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[00:00] --- Sun Feb 28 2010