highaltitude.log.20100221

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[00:09] <natrium42> o/
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[00:31] <fsphil> night all
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[00:55] <juxta> hey natrium42
[00:55] <juxta> how was your drive home?
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[04:52] <natrium42> was good, roads were not too busy
[04:52] <natrium42> thanks for asking :)
[05:00] <juxta> good to hear natrium42
[05:00] <juxta> where were you coming back from?
[05:01] <natrium42> Boston MA --> Waterloo Canada
[05:02] <natrium42> was visiting my sister for a week, she is studying masters of journalism at harvard
[05:02] <juxta> ahh right
[05:03] <juxta> I noticed the harvard.edu the other day, i thought you were maybe working there or something :)
[05:03] Action: natrium42 is done reading the backlog for the launch
[05:03] <natrium42> hehe
[05:03] <natrium42> nah, i study master of CS at university of waterloo
[05:04] <natrium42> hrm, somebody complained about tracker being borked on IE7
[05:06] <juxta> hmm
[05:06] <juxta> worked OK when I tested it
[05:09] <natrium42> weird
[05:09] <natrium42> why does msft make it so hard to install IE versions along each other :S
[05:09] <natrium42> they want you to install a whole *virtual machine*
[05:10] <juxta> heh
[05:10] <juxta> that's a bit of a pain
[05:19] <juxta> natrium42: have you got a few mins? I was wondering if I could ask for your advice on a couple of things :)
[05:39] <natrium42> juxta, about to go to bed sorry
[05:39] <natrium42> just added map resizing
[05:43] <natrium42> g'nite
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[07:47] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:12] <juxta> hey jcoxon
[08:12] <juxta> congrats on the launch yesterday :)
[08:12] <juxta> any word as to whether the payload was recovered?
[08:13] <jcoxon> it hasn't been recovered yet
[08:13] <jcoxon> though people will look today
[08:13] <jcoxon> i'm just going over the data
[08:13] <jcoxon> weird flight though
[08:13] <jcoxon> guess we learnt someting about pumps and GPS modules
[08:13] <jcoxon> i'm amazed it sorted itself out
[08:14] <juxta> yeah - so it was the EMI from the pump messing with the GPS?
[08:15] <jcoxon> i think so
[08:16] <jcoxon> but not messing but really messing
[08:16] <juxta> damn, that's a shame :(
[08:16] <jcoxon> or perhaps the transistor that controlled the relay to the pump drew too much and browned out the gps
[08:16] <juxta> hmm
[08:16] <jcoxon> but can be tested
[08:16] <juxta> that's a point
[08:18] <juxta> so it could be heard through the whole flight I guess?
[08:18] <juxta> just no lock?
[08:18] <juxta> I woke up and looked and saw a strangley straight flightpath to Holland :)
[08:19] <juxta> strangely* even
[08:19] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:19] <jcoxon> also the flight path seemed really weird
[08:19] <jcoxon> the balloon must of been intact as we descended at 2m/s
[08:19] <jcoxon> which slightly worries me that its still bobbing around
[08:19] <jcoxon> hopefully someone recovers it asap
[08:20] <juxta> yeah - there were a few people in here from NL, right?
[08:20] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:24] <juxta> hopefully someone goes and grabs it then - plus it has your contact details etc, right?
[08:25] <juxta> were you able to get a rough idea of its location by triangulating it?
[08:26] <jcoxon> very rough
[08:26] <jcoxon> http://maps.google.co.uk/?q=http://arjam.net/bh4.kml
[08:27] <juxta> nice!
[08:28] <juxta> what was the flight time in the end?
[08:29] <jcoxon> 5hrs 30 approx
[08:29] <jcoxon> it did some crazy stuff in the middle, not even sure how high it got - can't of got above 22km though as it followed the low flight path
[08:30] <jcoxon> using some creative maths i've got the last position being:
[08:30] <jcoxon> 51.8716,4.7891,1450
[08:31] <juxta> creative maths?
[08:33] <jcoxon> well correcting errors by working out how much time has passed and using the ascentrate etc
[08:33] <jcoxon> which was -1.9
[08:33] <juxta> ahh right
[08:33] <jcoxon> so you can fix 145 to actually be ~1450
[08:33] <jcoxon> etc
[08:33] <juxta> so is that near anybody who was online yesterday?
[08:35] <juxta> ah, i see someone on twitter said it was :)
[08:35] <juxta> I've gotta dash, back in a little while
[08:42] <jcoxon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFAKBNEQG7Y
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[09:00] <jcoxon> morning G3VZV_Graham
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[09:01] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
[09:01] <edmoore> yo
[09:02] <jcoxon> good dinner last night?
[09:04] <G3VZV_Graham> morning chaps...just at an IARU meeting in Vienna...what happened in the end last night?
[09:05] <jcoxon> G3VZV_Graham, its landed in the netherlands, last postion at about 1450m alt - people are going to look for it today
[09:06] <G3VZV_Graham> fantastic result - fingers crossed they find it...will it still be transmiting?
[09:06] <juxta> hey edmoore, jcoxon
[09:06] <jcoxon> G3VZV_Graham, should be, RTTY out the bottom, CW out the top :-)
[09:07] <juxta> jcoxon: what was the estimated battery life?
[09:07] <juxta> jcoxon: perfect weather!
[09:07] <jcoxon> i reckon the main flight computer won't last much longer
[09:08] <jcoxon> but the CW beacon will last 48hrs perhaps
[09:08] <juxta> :)
[09:08] <jcoxon> i suspect there might still be a balloon bobbing around
[09:08] <jcoxon> hopefully not stuck in anything important...
[09:08] <juxta> heh, well should make for easier finiding :)
[09:09] <juxta> is the CW beacon in the main payload, or elsewhere on the string?
[09:09] <jcoxon> its in teh main payload at attached to the lid
[09:10] <juxta> ah okay
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[09:27] <jcoxon> morning F4EIR
[09:27] <F4EIR> good morning
[09:28] <F4EIR> I look for the lastest information about HALO4
[09:28] <jcoxon> oh right
[09:28] <jcoxon> it has landed in the Netherlands
[09:28] <F4EIR> yesterday i have to be left at 19h00
[09:29] <jcoxon> last known position: 51.8716,4.7891
[09:29] <F4EIR> ok sorry for the GPS
[09:29] <juxta> F4EIR: BallastHalo4 :)
[09:29] <jcoxon> it started working again :-)
[09:30] <jcoxon> but it is a shame it stopped working for so long
[09:30] <juxta> what sort of pump was it jcoxon?
[09:31] <jcoxon> http://www.williamson-shop.co.uk/100-series-with-dc-powered-motors-3586-p.asp
[09:31] <jcoxon> F4EIR, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFAKBNEQG7Y - launch video
[09:32] <jcoxon> bbl
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[09:32] <F4EIR> yesterday i have indicate on the french yahoogroup balloning interest for some repport but no many OM can do
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[09:40] <F4EIR> do you need report for post proces ?
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[09:50] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[09:50] <F4EIR> nice video
[09:51] <F4EIR> do you need information about antenna or GPS used in radiosonde ?
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[09:55] <MikeMc68|Away> morning
[09:55] Nick change: MikeMc68|Away -> MikeMc68
[09:55] <Lunar_Lander> morning
[09:55] <Lunar_Lander> hi rjharrison
[09:55] <rjharrison> Morning all
[09:55] <MikeMc68> morning
[09:56] <rjharrison> Well what a turn up for the books have we any news on recovery yet
[09:57] <MikeMc68> Has it been found?
[09:58] <rjharrison> MikeMc68 not that is what I wanted to know
[09:58] <rjharrison> I think it is very likely that it will be found as the balloon is still inflated / was
[09:59] <rjharrison> Hopfully not wrapped around some power lines
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[10:00] <rjharrison> I need to get on with building the payload for Icarus III
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[10:01] <Futurity> morning everyone
[10:01] <Futurity> the launch videos are now online
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[10:03] <MikeMc68> where?
[10:04] <Futurity> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFAKBNEQG7Y
[10:04] <Futurity> thats the HD version
[10:04] <Futurity> just going to email around the links
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[10:07] <G8DSU> Futurity: Nice pictures. Do I detect that autofocus got a bit confused by clouds from time to time? Don't know whether that is manually switchable but at that distance its probably not required. Looking forward to your launch video of BH5!
[10:07] <Futurity> yep
[10:08] <Futurity> it trues to focus on the middle point
[10:08] <Futurity> the balloon is at the top and payload at the bottom so it gets confused
[10:08] <Futurity> next time i need to switch to manual focus and infinity shortly after launch.
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[10:09] <Futurity> in the last few second it pans out and you can see just how far it's had to zoom in to see it
[10:11] <G8DSU> Yes, quite a zoom ranges on that camera. And remarkably steady images considering. Presumably on a tripod?
[10:13] <MikeMc68> I have an SX! :)
[10:13] <MikeMc68> SX1
[10:13] <MikeMc68> Not so good in darker conditions but they give nice video
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[10:13] <Futurity> yes on a tripod
[10:13] <Futurity> but i had the iPhone streaming video to the net at the same time
[10:13] <Futurity> so it wasn't as steady as it could have been
[10:14] <Futurity> there is more video, up to it drifting into that cloud
[10:14] <Futurity> the iPhone was in my left hand and i was zooming , panning etc with my right
[10:14] <Futurity> hence why the iPhone stream was so bad ;)
[10:14] <MikeMc68> best to switch to manual focus when zooming in on things with the SX1
[10:14] <MikeMc68> it has trouble focusing on long range objects
[10:14] <Futurity> i agree
[10:15] <Futurity> was a bit hectic as you can imagine
[10:15] <Futurity> learnt a lot for the next launch ;)
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[10:17] <MikeMc68> still a good video
[10:17] <Futurity> it is
[10:17] <Futurity> very impressed with it
[10:17] <Futurity> i agree that its not a great low light camera, but for launches its very nice due to the super zoom :)
[10:18] <Futurity> btw if you could rate the youtube video, we'll hopefully get a few more views of it
[10:19] <G8DSU> Consider it rated!
[10:19] <Lunar_Lander> finally
[10:19] <Lunar_Lander> crappy university network
[10:20] <Futurity> G8DSU: Many Thanks
[10:22] <Futurity> although the launch didn't run to plan, I hope encourages James to BH5 soon
[10:22] Action: SpeedEvil tried, but I couldn't get BH4 found while I slept.
[10:22] Action: SpeedEvil woke up early.
[10:23] Action: G3VZV_Graham wonders if that cloud could have caused a lot of shaking/vibration which caused the GPS problems etc
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[10:25] <Lunar_Lander> can you link me to the video?
[10:25] <Futurity> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFAKBNEQG7Y
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[10:27] <edmoore> great video
[10:27] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[10:27] <Futurity> THANKS ED
[10:27] <Futurity> ooops caps lock, please rate it on youtube if you can
[10:27] <edmoore> I really like the swirling of the background clouds at at 4:00
[10:28] <Lunar_Lander> what a launch
[10:28] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[10:30] <Lunar_Lander> well done
[10:30] <rjharrison> edmoore wtf is that scary echoing voices
[10:30] <edmoore> where?
[10:30] <rjharrison> like an 80's horror
[10:30] <rjharrison> on the HD vid
[10:30] <edmoore> i think they might be in your head
[10:31] <rjharrison> Ho
[10:31] <rjharrison> I can hear james too
[10:31] <rjharrison> But it sound weird
[10:31] <rjharrison> The wind is overriding
[10:32] <rjharrison> Some shouting in the background
[10:32] <rjharrison> When you get 5 try listening with headphones
[10:32] <rjharrison> Who filmed? Was it on the track o tron?
[10:32] <edmoore> Futurity filmed it
[10:33] <Futurity> There was a football or rugby game on
[10:33] <Futurity> you can hear it in the background
[10:33] <rjharrison> Futurity cool
[10:33] <juxta> that woulkd have been cool to have it on the tracking tripod
[10:33] <Futurity> Rob, I'm Neil, from Steve's launch last year ;)
[10:33] <rjharrison> Yep
[10:33] <rjharrison> I remember
[10:33] <Futurity> i need to use manual focus next time
[10:34] <juxta> but good work given it was done by hand Futurity :)
[10:34] <rjharrison> Not that you were called neil mind you
[10:34] <edmoore> the tracking tripod does't update fast enough to catch launch
[10:34] <rjharrison> Yep not much to focus on
[10:34] <edmoore> which is unfortunate
[10:34] <rjharrison> I'm going to be launching soonish
[10:34] <rjharrison> Ie in the next wx window
[10:34] <rjharrison> weekend wx window
[10:34] <Futurity> and also spend less time on the iPhone ustreaming
[10:34] <Futurity> perhaps next time i can attach the iphone to the same tripod
[10:35] <Futurity> off now for a bit but back later
[10:35] <G3VZV_Graham> futurity - check out batc.tv
[10:35] <G3VZV_Graham> you can use this system to give greater bandwidth for more viewers at one time..
[10:36] <rjharrison> G3VZV_Graham cool
[10:37] <rjharrison> edmoore any ideas on light weight fat for avr to write data to sd?
[10:37] <edmoore> the elm-chan one
[10:37] <edmoore> if you want lighter, brew a coffee and write your own with the specific bits you wat
[10:37] <edmoore> want*
[10:38] <rjharrison> yep I have a life to live as well :)
[10:38] <rjharrison> I'll have a look I'm thinking of the writing over a large txt file init to 0's or 1's
[10:39] <rjharrison> iirc the easiest way?
[10:39] <edmoore> init?
[10:40] <SpeedEvil> rjharrison: pretty much
[10:40] <SpeedEvil> rjharrison: or even just use it only under linux.
[10:40] <juxta> any idea if James published the mods to TinyGPS he used?
[10:40] <SpeedEvil> First block has a current file pointer - ...
[10:40] <edmoore> i mean you don't actually need a file system, you can just treat the sd card as addressable memory and write to it raw
[10:41] <jonsowman> hi all
[10:41] <rjharrison> edmoore humm
[10:41] <rjharrison> That sounds like a plan
[10:41] <rjharrison> and then just read it back out
[10:41] <juxta> just treat it like a big eeprom
[10:41] <edmoore> and then perahsp write a wee script based around dd to convert it into a more useful file on a *nix system
[10:41] <edmoore> or yes, just pipe it back out through the cpu over a serial port
[10:42] <rjharrison> Humm rather like danielrichmans
[10:42] Action: SpeedEvil wonders how complex the tar format is
[10:42] Action: rjharrison is glad SpeedEvil is pondering
[10:42] <rjharrison> juxta no idea but I'm sure he'll tell you
[10:43] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_%28file_format%29 - looks quite easy
[10:47] <juxta> my local electronics store doesn't sell 9x2, 10x2, 11x2 etc header sockets
[10:47] <juxta> how annoying
[10:48] <gordonjcp> juxta: what, pin headers like for ribbon cable IDE connectors?
[10:48] <juxta> gordonjcp: yeah, that sort of thing
[10:49] <gordonjcp> juxta: pick up some 40-pin ones and cut them down?
[10:49] <edmoore> butt up some smaller ones together?
[10:49] <Lunar_Lander> see you later people!
[10:49] <juxta> yeah
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[10:49] <juxta> I'll probably end up either cutting one to size or using some smaller ones together
[10:50] <juxta> just annoying, they have nothing useful
[10:50] <rjharrison> juxta it's cheaper to buy 50 pin strips and solder side by side
[10:50] <juxta> they have a million and useless things & never anything useful
[10:50] <rjharrison> They break of easy enough
[10:50] <rjharrison> off
[10:51] <juxta> I was hoping for the connector so that I don't plug it in backwards later down the track, hehe
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> juxta: large blob of white paint on device and plug
[10:52] <juxta> heh, good idea :)
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> Also
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> remove one pin
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> glue up one hole
[10:52] <juxta> ah
[10:52] <juxta> nice, that sounds like a good plan
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[11:01] <juxta> do via's usually get covered by solder mask?
[11:05] <SpeedEvil> sometimes
[11:05] <rjharrison> juxa not for mine
[11:05] <rjharrison> It's normally an extra
[11:07] <juxta> alright
[11:07] <juxta> I won't put any under the GPS battery then :)
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[11:38] <martinsweeney> jcoxon: the GPS you used for BH4, what was it? And, are there still issues above a certain altitude with getting satellite fixes?
[11:41] <jcoxon> it was a lassen IQ and it does work above 18km
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[11:41] <jcoxon> but its quite old - there are better gpses around these days - especially ublox modules
[11:41] <martinsweeney> were the telit modules a no go? IIRC they had GPRS as well...
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[11:42] <MikeMc68> i don't think there was a problem with the GPS was there? It was compromised due to a fault with the pumping system right ?
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[11:43] Action: martinsweeney was thinking in general really, rather than specific to BH4
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[11:45] <jcoxon> yeah they use sirfIII which doesn't work above 24km
[11:47] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil:is it possible to have a via in the middle of a pad?
[11:48] <edmoore> hi martinsweeney
[11:48] <edmoore> long time no see
[11:50] <martinsweeney> morning. Yep, de-lurking what with all the excitement
[11:50] Ziltro_ (~ziltro@ziltro.plus.com) got netsplit.
[11:50] Zoeff (~Z@unaffiliated/zoeff) got netsplit.
[11:51] <martinsweeney> still having thoughts about making a v simple up/down payload to get some nice pics
[11:52] <edmoore> do!
[11:52] <edmoore> that's all 90% of them are
[11:54] <martinsweeney> reckon it's safe enough to rely just on the 10mW transmitter to send out position, or would an SMS when it lands be good as well?
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[11:55] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: yes.
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[11:55] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: but if not filled, it can cause wicking.
[11:55] <SpeedEvil> martinsweeney: SMS has problems.
[11:56] <martinsweeney> even on/near the ground?
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> martinsweeney: even in the best areas - coverage when it comes down lying face-down ont he ground may not be great
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> Added to the fact you may only have 30s or so to get a lock and send a SMS while you're in the air, ...
[11:56] <martinsweeney> hrm true, then what's the best way to make sure you find it?
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> As the coverage can drop off remarkably quikly.
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> GPS transmitter and 433 has worked well.
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> That gets you close enough that you can foxhunt it easily.
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> or walk directly to the payload even
[11:58] <SpeedEvil> In some cases, they've actually seen it come down - by following in the chase car the GPS
[11:58] <SpeedEvil> The best way is probably redundant solution.
[11:58] <martinsweeney> such as?
[11:58] <SpeedEvil> SMS + 433 GPS transmitter + morse beacon
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> but - at some point you have to cope with diminishing returns
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> as nothings gonna help if it lands in the sea.
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> And does adding 20% cost in redundancy really have a point if you lose 10% of them in the sea anyway?
[12:01] Ziltro_ (~ziltro@ziltro.plus.com) got lost in the net-split.
[12:01] Zoeff (~Z@unaffiliated/zoeff) got lost in the net-split.
[12:01] <martinsweeney> some incentive not to launch near the sea, then
[12:01] <edmoore> i'm not averse to SMS
[12:01] <edmoore> it often complements that telemetry very well
[12:02] <edmoore> but usually it's unecessary as you have a good enough idea of landing location to get close enought o hear it
[12:02] <SpeedEvil> martinsweeney: not near the sea is hard.
[12:02] <SpeedEvil> martinsweeney: at least here.
[12:02] Action: martinsweeney grins; I know
[12:02] <SpeedEvil> martinsweeney: the balloon goes up at 2-5m/s or so to 35km.
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> martinsweeney: that's a long time.
[12:04] <martinsweeney> is anyone using arduino for the uC part?
[12:04] <edmoore> we've built but not launched arduino flight computers
[12:06] <martinsweeney> any particular reason for not?
[12:06] <edmoore> nope
[12:06] <edmoore> we just have our own arm-based stuff
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> arduino is expensive.
[12:06] <edmoore> not really when you look at the convenience
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> When you can get the same for a couple of pounds, and configure it as you like.
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
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[12:08] <martinsweeney> boarduino is cheap, and the arduino mini (£13) is cute AND cheap
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[12:12] <martinsweeney> anyone know if ublox modules are good >18Km?
[12:12] <martinsweeney> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9566
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> there is a list on the wiki
[12:16] <jcoxon> martinsweeney, they certainly do
[12:16] <jcoxon> up to 50km apparently
[12:16] <jcoxon> andi've used arduinos - BH4 runs on the arduino boatloader though a custom board
[12:18] <martinsweeney> So, arduino + NTX2/NRX2 + camera + ublox GPS = complete?
[12:18] <jcoxon> never used a nrx2
[12:18] <jcoxon> but yeah thats very good payload
[12:18] <martinsweeney> what's your transmitter?
[12:18] <jcoxon> ntx2
[12:19] <jcoxon> nrx2 is the receiver pair but we use amateur radios
[12:19] <martinsweeney> ah, mis-read your message
[12:19] <martinsweeney> so, apart from a ~£500 amateur radio...
[12:19] <martinsweeney> any other way to receive?
[12:20] <edmoore> a ~£150 amateur radio
[12:20] <martinsweeney> that's more like it
[12:20] <martinsweeney> make/model?
[12:21] <MikeMc68> Why buy an arduino? Why not just buy the chip?
[12:21] <edmoore> try for a yaesu ft-790R on ebay
[12:21] <MikeMc68> The only other thing you need is an oscilattor
[12:21] <edmoore> it was the radio we had for our first 10 or so flights
[12:22] <martinsweeney> ebay has only parts of said radio.
[12:22] <MikeMc68> i got mine on eBay
[12:22] <martinsweeney> mikemc68: oscillator...
[12:22] <martinsweeney> ?
[12:22] <MikeMc68> they come around from time to time
[12:22] <MikeMc68> Instead of buying an Arduino just buy an Atmega328 chip and oscillator
[12:22] <edmoore> i'm not sure what the arduino-hate is for. it puts a chip + oscillator (plus all the other passives you need) and connections on a breakout board for you (which has better electrical behaviours that veroboard) for a the price of a round of drinks
[12:22] <MikeMc68> a lot cheaper and you can then solder up[ your own PCB
[12:23] <MikeMc68> I don't hate Arduino's - I love them, I have about 7 of my own but for a payload a chip soldered to a PCB is more robust than wires soldered from an Arduino to antheer circuit board
[12:23] <martinsweeney> i'm not too fussed. plus, I like to share code etc
[12:24] <martinsweeney> and it's easier/more accessible for people without bootloaders and pcbs to use
[12:25] <MikeMc68> which people with or without an arduino will be able to do
[12:25] <juxta> martinsweeney: I launched an arduino recently (my first launch)
[12:25] <MikeMc68> You don't nee a bootloader - just buy a chip with the bootloader on it
[12:25] <martinsweeney> I still think arduino has a smaller entry barrier height
[12:26] <juxta> I agree martinsweeney, it's a good place to start
[12:26] <martinsweeney> juxta: is there any info on your payload online?
[12:27] <juxta> yeah, www.projecthorus.org
[12:27] <martinsweeney> ah that's yours; I've just been reading
[12:27] <juxta> :)
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[12:28] <juxta> hrm, I have designed a board now, but it's panning out more pricey than I expected to have it made up
[12:29] <juxta> 25 bucks for the board, $10 setup, another $25 for shipping (with batchpcb)
[12:29] <juxta> unless I choose the $1 shipping option, but that could take upto 1 month :(
[12:30] <martinsweeney> ouch
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> yeah - it depends.
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> DIY can be good
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> 1-layer is easy
[12:30] <martinsweeney> etch a board yourself?
[12:31] <juxta> SpeedEvil: yeah, I have access to a lightbox and etching tank
[12:31] <juxta> but it still seems like a lot of bother
[12:31] <martinsweeney> but cheaper tho?
[12:31] <juxta> yeah - only a few bucks for the board itself
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> juxta: it depends. It's not too bad once you get used to it, and quite fast.
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> But it's a lot of screwing around to get a process that works reliably for you
[12:32] <juxta> of course you dont get fancy things like solder mask, silkscreen etc (but that doesnt really matter)
[12:33] <juxta> SpeedEvil: I've never done one myself - I'm plannig on doing up some single sided boards and doing them at home with the toner+iron method
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> brother uses a laser printer with the fuser removed
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> and a laminator
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> works for him
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> with label-backing paper
[12:34] <juxta> that's a good idea
[12:34] <martinsweeney> newb question: in terms of transmitting over the NTX2, what do you use? RTTY?
[12:34] <juxta> I have no laminator though
[12:34] <juxta> an iron I do have :P
[12:34] <juxta> martinsweeney: yeah, most use 50 baud RTTY
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> see that
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> martinsweeney:
[12:34] <martinsweeney> is it easy to encode text (ascii?) with arduino?
[12:35] <juxta> martinsweeney: very - there are some functions kicking around
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[12:36] <rjharrison> jcoxon no news yet then sir
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[12:40] <juxta> martinsweeney: where abouts are you?
[12:40] <martinsweeney> juxta: leeds
[12:41] <juxta> ah right
[12:41] <martinsweeney> juxta: you're in the US?
[12:41] <juxta> Australia :)
[12:41] <martinsweeney> juxta: ah ok; I saw sun in your photos and assumed...
[12:41] <juxta> haha
[12:42] <martinsweeney> so, how easy is it to persuade the NTX2 to talk with an arduino
[12:42] <martinsweeney> ?
[12:43] <juxta> quite easy - basically 2 pins from your board, through a couple of resistors, connected to the TX pin of the NTX2
[12:43] <juxta> the restsitors are aranged as a voltage dividor - meaning each output pin will give you a differing voltage level on the TX pin
[12:43] <juxta> (output freq is varied by input voltage)
[12:44] <juxta> then the code is maybe 40 lines I think, the methods I used were written by rjharrison, it's quite straighforward
[12:47] <martinsweeney> I do remember seeing it on the wiki somewhere, but I can't find it now...
[12:48] <juxta> martinsweeney: http://pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/ideas:notes?s=rtty
[12:48] <martinsweeney> brilliant
[12:50] <martinsweeney> right, brb - should get out of bed I suppose
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[12:57] <rjharrison> anyone running xp and up for a quick test
[12:58] <rjharrison> I need someone to test the new dl-fldigi r85 for vista and see if it runs on xp
[12:58] <rjharrison> Shuold be a quick dload and unzip and double click on icon
[12:59] <juxta> rjharrison: sure
[12:59] <juxta> I'm on XP, what's the URL?
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[13:00] <rjharrison> one sec
[13:00] <rjharrison> Just uloading
[13:00] <juxta> ok
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[13:02] <rjharrison> chugging away
[13:02] <rjharrison> Nearly there
[13:03] <rjharrison> http://code.google.com/p/dl-fldigi/downloads/list
[13:03] <rjharrison> Juxta you want the r85 version
[13:03] <juxta> ok
[13:03] <rjharrison> Ideally if this works in XP I only need to make one release :)
[13:03] <rjharrison> 8mb dload
[13:03] <juxta> runs just fine :)
[13:04] <rjharrison> cool
[13:04] <juxta> cool, customised menus
[13:04] <rjharrison> hehe we're getting there jcoxon has done a bit of work on the client with some handy weblinks
[13:04] <rjharrison> Not sure about the fish icons
[13:04] <juxta> haha I was wondering about that one :P
[13:05] <rjharrison> If you want to use this version you'll have to populate the operator details again
[13:05] <juxta> no worries
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[13:05] <juxta> I always wondered, what's wrap.exe in the archive?
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[13:05] <rjharrison> We will be forcing an upgrade on people soon but this is not the final one we need to do a little more work first
[13:06] <rjharrison> Right goto take the wife and kids out
[13:06] <rjharrison> juxta snow here about 4 inches = 15 cm
[13:06] <juxta> nice
[13:07] <juxta> though dubious metric conversion :P
[13:07] <ProjectCirrus> lol i always thought it was your right to add a third on to snow dimensions to make it sound better
[13:08] <ProjectCirrus> i wonder how many times my parents actually experiend a foot of snow
[13:09] <juxta> even if i add a third to the cumulative snow total for the year here it's still 0in = 0cm = :(
[13:09] <ProjectCirrus> don't complain!
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[13:09] <ProjectCirrus> it soon gets annoying, but getting off uni and work is good
[13:10] <juxta> haha
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[13:10] <ProjectCirrus> sorry im just on.... any news on the recovery of bh4?
[13:10] <juxta> haven't heard anything yet
[13:11] <ProjectCirrus> i just have this image of a semi inflated balloon bouncing across the netherlands
[13:13] <juxta> SpeedEvil: what size traces do you think would work on a home made PCB? ie with toner transfer?
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[13:19] <SpeedEvil> juxta: it depends
[13:19] <SpeedEvil> juxta: some get much better results than others.
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> generally a track through a DIP pad works for most
[13:20] <juxta> as in 0.1 inch?
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[13:24] <SpeedEvil> yes - as in a track between 0.1" spaced pads
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[13:40] <Lunar_Lander> hello again
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[13:42] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
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[13:43] <jcoxon> hey
[13:43] <edmoore> hi
[13:43] <jcoxon> just popping in, no news on recovery
[13:43] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[13:43] <jcoxon> haven't heard of any national disasters which is a good thing i guess :-p
[13:44] <MikeMc68> It came down in pretty rural surroundings
[13:44] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[13:45] <MikeMc68> So it may take some time to be discovered
[13:45] <jcoxon> yeah, its got laminated details on it
[13:45] <jcoxon> so it should be found eventually
[13:45] <MikeMc68> As long as it and the contact details on the side can withstand the elements for a few days I am sure it will be found
[13:45] <jcoxon> my only concern is that the balloon is still inflated a bit
[13:45] <jcoxon> but a bit of sunlight should sort that out
[13:46] <Lunar_Lander> what about a cutdown for next time?
[13:47] <jcoxon> bbl
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[14:38] <rjharrison> Starting work on icarus III payload
[14:38] <rjharrison> ie the insulated box
[14:41] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[16:55] <MikeMc68> 's'up ?
[16:56] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:56] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[17:00] <Jasperw> was the payload recovered?
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[17:01] <SpeedEvil> not yet
[17:01] <MikeMc68> not yet
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[18:02] <Neils> Hi everyone
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[18:04] <Neils> It seems that the email I sent with the launch video link was bounced from mailing lists I'm not subscribed to
[18:04] <Neils> Artic halo was one I can remember
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[18:04] <Neils> Please feel free to pass the video link around
[18:05] <natrium42> hi
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[18:05] <Neils> Hi
[18:05] <natrium42> :}
[18:05] <Neils> Are there any more launches planned that anyone knows of?
[18:06] <natrium42> robert harrison plans one
[18:06] <natrium42> as soon as winds acceptable
[18:06] <Neils> Cool
[18:11] <natrium42> Neils, what video link?
[18:17] <Neils> Of the launch. Let me find the link
[18:17] <natrium42> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFAKBNEQG7Y ?
[18:18] <Futurity> yes that one
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[18:19] <Futurity> sorry was logged on as Neils and Futurity. Now just as Futurity ;)
[18:20] <natrium42> :D
[18:20] <natrium42> cool video
[18:23] <natrium42> what's the zoom on this camera?
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[18:31] <MikeMc68> 20x Optical
[18:31] <MikeMc68> It's the Canon SX1 - I have one too - the zoom is well impressive
[18:31] <MikeMc68> Does Full HD video
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that video is awesome
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> but this video was not taken in Full HD?
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> otherwise YT would offer 1080p
[18:32] <MikeMc68> Maybe it was edited down to 720p
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[18:33] <MikeMc68> or maybe he recorded it in a lower mode
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[18:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:34] <fsphil> did well to keep it steady at 20x
[18:35] <MikeMc68> Tripod ;)
[18:37] <fsphil> hehe, still steadier than I'd have done with a tripod :)
[18:45] <Futurity> hi back
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[18:46] <Futurity> it was taken in 1080P, but the only option iMovie gives me to publist to YouTube / Export were the ones given
[18:46] <Futurity> 720p i think
[18:46] <Futurity> was very lucky that the wind was very light
[18:47] <Futurity> i need to lock the focus at infinity next time though ;)
[18:47] <Futurity> hopefully for Rob's launch if I'm available
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:47] <Futurity> i'm impressed at the zoom out at the end of the video
[18:47] <Futurity> the balloon seems to be smaller than a 1080P pixel at full zoom out
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[18:49] <fsphil> it's still a clear shot at 20x too, my own camera has a somewhat soft image at it's max, 16x
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[19:01] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:02] <GW8RAK> evening. Enjoyed yesterday's launch activities and was most impressed. Shame the GPS lost lock
[19:02] <jcoxon> GW8RAK, yeah funny situation with the gps dying then restarting once the pump ran out of batteries
[19:03] <jcoxon> need to do some 'lab' tests on if it was interference from the pump messing the gps around
[19:04] <GW8RAK> A question. Why was the pump on at that time? Should it not have been off until float altitude?
[19:05] <jcoxon> GW8RAK, indeed, however the flight path for the first launch attempt 13/2/10 risked overflying london
[19:05] <jcoxon> so to make sure we were at a suitable altitude i set it up to dump a little bit of ballast if the ascentrate was too low
[19:05] <GW8RAK> Got it. That explains it.
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[19:06] <jcoxon> over the last week i didn't touch it and on launch out ascentrate dropped a little and off it went
[19:06] <GW8RAK> What ascent rate were you after?
[19:06] <jcoxon> just didn't expect it to wipe out hte gps :-p
[19:06] <jcoxon> 2-3m/s
[19:06] <GW8RAK> One of the predicted flight paths, at 18Km, seems to have predicted the landing area quite accurately
[19:07] <GW8RAK> Is this normal?
[19:07] <jcoxon> our next issue
[19:07] <jcoxon> yes it looks like we didn't get very high
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[19:08] <jcoxon> at launch there was a problem with the vent - the seal on the end cap wasn't as good as it perhaps should have been - we patched it up but i don't think that mattered
[19:08] <jcoxon> getting these balloons to float require a 1.5mm vent hole
[19:08] <jcoxon> a previous flight by WB8ELK put 2 1.5mm vent holes in and he found that it stopped ascending around 23k ft and then descended down slowly
[19:08] <jcoxon> i reckon thats exactly what happened here
[19:09] <jcoxon> these experimental flights are tough :-p
[19:09] <jcoxon> normal up/down flights with a camera are easy :-p
[19:10] <GW8RAK> Well if they are easy, there's hope for me yet
[19:11] <jcoxon> oh - no news of recovery yet - some local hams went searching earlier today - checked out the last known position but found nothing - i reckon its 6km further east - perhaps someone will come across it during the week
[19:11] <Randomskk> any plans for a second launch?
[19:11] <Randomskk> BH5 as it were
[19:12] <jcoxon> hmmmmm perhaps :-p
[19:12] <jcoxon> ive really got to do some work though
[19:12] <jcoxon> as in revise for finals
[19:12] <Randomskk> eep
[19:13] <jcoxon> right thats 44 ukhas flights now
[19:14] <jcoxon> 14 payloads by me
[19:14] <Randomskk> nice
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> nice percentage :P
[19:16] <jcoxon> Randomskk, we probably still need to test these ballast tanks
[19:17] <jcoxon> in a less crazy situation
[19:17] <jcoxon> but i'm thinking about a few changes to the setup
[19:17] <jcoxon> and retiring the lassen and instead using a ublox as having to wait for a lassen lock just drives you mad
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[19:22] <GW8RAK> Has anyone tried packet radio and using the balloon as a digipeater please?
[19:22] <GW8RAK> If I can get this balloon project working with the air cadets, it would be a great experiment
[19:23] <jcoxon> GW8RAK, we've had a play with packet radio
[19:23] <jcoxon> especially Rocketboy(G8KHW)
[19:23] <GW8RAK> What did you do?
[19:23] <jcoxon> but not as an digipeater
[19:23] <jcoxon> we've downlinked packet on 10mW on 70cm
[19:24] <jcoxon> HF packet that is
[19:24] <GW8RAK> 300bps?
[19:24] <jcoxon> yeah
[19:25] <GW8RAK> I've only really considered packet so far as it is easy to rx for other cadet squadrons with simple equipment.
[19:25] <jcoxon> so yeah it can be done
[19:25] <jcoxon> the range isn't as good though
[19:25] <jcoxon> at least on FM that is
[19:25] <Randomskk> rtty is pretty easy
[19:25] <GW8RAK> We would only want a range to burst altitude
[19:25] <Randomskk> all you need is something with SSB on 70cms and a computer
[19:26] <jcoxon> GW8RAK, i'm also considering rebuilding my Pegasus VI payload - bit of SSTV fun again :-p
[19:26] <RocketBoy> cant really use 1200 FM packet as 10mW limits range to about 35Km
[19:26] <GW8RAK> How do you generate the RTTY? Do you have a look up table?
[19:27] <jcoxon> GW8RAK, we don't use Baudot but instead ASCII-8
[19:27] <jcoxon> so its easy to work with
[19:28] <jcoxon> and dl-fldigi (our adapted soundcard decoder) is quite happy with ASCII-7 or ASCII-8
[19:28] <GW8RAK> Of course! That does make it easy. I was looking at some of your programming today, but not knowing C (I think it is) I couldn't work out quite what was happening.
[19:29] <jcoxon> GW8RAK, with dl-fldigi we've cheekily tapped into a number of functions
[19:30] <jcoxon> that already exisited
[19:30] <jcoxon> so we can now detect our telemetry string - looking for the $$ at the beginning
[19:30] <fsphil> jcoxon, are you sending the sstv with the ntx2 module?
[19:30] <jcoxon> fsphil, yup
[19:31] <Randomskk> jcoxon: a static image over sstv or from a camera?
[19:31] <fsphil> neat - the receiver would need to be set to fm though?
[19:31] <GW8RAK> That is always the easiest way. But I'm still working on a Picaxe chip and initially packet. The problem at present is getting permission from HQ.
[19:31] <jcoxon> GW8RAK, and then once we've checked the sentence isn't noise etc we use curl to upload it to the server which parses it again and adds it to the tracker map
[19:31] <jcoxon> Randomskk, from a camera :-p
[19:31] <Randomskk> jcoxon: neat
[19:31] <Randomskk> how'd you read the image?
[19:31] <jcoxon> fsphil, RocketBoy made a ssb version as well
[19:32] <GW8RAK> Careful, I'm getting confused here. Haven't got that far.
[19:32] <jcoxon> Randomskk, using a old canon and ptp
[19:32] <Randomskk> sweet
[19:32] <jcoxon> Randomskk, fsphil http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/2996276102/in/set-72157607545848581/
[19:33] <jcoxon> it was a bad day for a launch etc - really should do it again
[19:33] <Randomskk> looks awesome
[19:33] <jcoxon> used a gumstix for it
[19:34] <Randomskk> did you recover it?
[19:34] <jcoxon> yup
[19:34] <Randomskk> nice
[19:34] <jcoxon> though i managed to screw up the rtty bit so we ended up using ths backup SMS to locate it
[19:34] <Randomskk> ah okay
[19:34] <GW8RAK> With the gumstix, did you run a SSTV programme on top of linux and just send a picture every time one was taken?
[19:35] <russss> I have a gumstix sitting here doing nothing which I would be willing to lend to a worthy cause
[19:35] <Randomskk> btw did anyone hear the CW backup on BH4? we listened for a while but didn't get anything, and I didn't pick it up on BH3 either
[19:35] <jcoxon> GW8RAK, we had a custom built bit of C code that generated audio files of in Martin1
[19:35] <jcoxon> which we then played through the gumstix's soundcard
[19:36] <jcoxon> Randomskk, junderwood_ heard it i think
[19:36] <Randomskk> okay
[19:36] <jcoxon> it didn't have a big antenna, just a wire sticking out hte top - its more for locating it on the ground
[19:36] <GW8RAK> Too complicated for me. But perhaps if we get some launches under our belts, then we could consider it.
[19:36] <Randomskk> what's it's transmit schedule?
[19:36] <jcoxon> GW8RAK, nothing beats using a camera and getting it back
[19:36] <Randomskk> its* even
[19:36] <jcoxon> Randomskk, every 10mins - its a true backup beacon
[19:36] <russss> maybe we could put the CW backup on 868MHz
[19:36] <russss> moar power
[19:37] <Randomskk> ah, fair enough
[19:37] <jcoxon> russss, fewer receviers :-p
[19:37] <russss> true
[19:37] <RocketBoy> actually the SSTV was very cool - we should do it again - on 868MHz 500mW FM this time
[19:37] <Randomskk> :( my radio won't do 868
[19:37] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, i'm up for a sstv flight
[19:37] <Randomskk> anyway bbl time to do some serious report writing
[19:37] <jcoxon> was going to swap the big old camera for one of those jpeg cameras
[19:37] <jcoxon> as the image is scaled down anyway
[19:38] <RocketBoy> wouldn't be too difficult - could use my ICR7000 on rx - or RX modules
[19:38] <GW8RAK> Considering the results so far, how much extra power would be desirable?
[19:39] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, a project for the summer perhaps
[19:39] <jcoxon> after my exams :-p
[19:39] <RocketBoy> :-)
[19:39] <jcoxon> on that note need to organise a atlantichalo meeting
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander2> yeah
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander2> hi jcoxon
[19:40] <jcoxon> hey Lunar_Lander2
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander2> we still have negative recovery?
[19:41] <jcoxon> nothing yet - it'll turn up somewhere
[19:41] <jcoxon> as long as we haven't damaged anybodies property etc then it'll be fine :-)
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander2> yeah :)
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[19:46] <jcoxon> russss, does hackspace have any mbeds?
[19:46] <russss> I think jonty has one
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[19:47] <jcoxon> might get one - have an idea...
[19:47] <russss> I also met someone who knows the guy who started mbed, but I can't remember who
[19:47] <russss> I was clearly drunk
[19:47] <jcoxon> that rings a bell - on the email list perhaps
[19:47] <jcoxon> when is the next meeting?
[19:48] <russss> 10th of March
[19:50] <jcoxon> hmmm damn i'm back on placement
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[20:19] <Laurenceb> hi folks
[20:19] <Laurenceb> is there a graph of altitude from yesterdays flight?
[20:19] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, no, as there really isn't enough data
[20:19] <Laurenceb> ah thats a shame
[20:20] <jcoxon> i think we had a problem with teh poorly sealed vent
[20:20] <jcoxon> and so had a larger vent
[20:20] <jcoxon> so it actually didn't go too high and then descended slowly - similar to WB8ELK's 3rd floater flight with 2x1.5mm vents
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[20:30] <jcoxon> okay - just got a message from the dutch hams - they couldn't find it today - will have a look for it tomorrow afternoon
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander2> yea
[20:31] Nick change: Lunar_Lander2 -> Lunar_Lander
[20:32] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: any idea how long the batteries will last?
[20:33] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, i suspect the flight computer will be down but the beacon will last a long time
[20:34] <RocketBoy> cool - thats all they will need
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[20:34] <MikeMc68> should have had it send an SMS ;)
[20:35] <jcoxon> it transmits every 15mins and turns the ntx2 off between so it'll draw so very little current
[20:35] <jcoxon> and its a low power atmega168 as well
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[20:38] <G8DSU> On the basis that bad news travels fast (and good news slow?, a bit Pratchett-y!), I'd guess that BH4 has done no serious damage and it sitting awaiting recovery.
[20:38] <Twiner> Are you planning on taking the trip and looking for it yourself, if they can't find it tomorrow?
[20:38] <jcoxon> G8DSU, yes exactly my thoughts - those who were looking for it would have heard about something serious
[20:39] <H__> has it not been found yet ?
[20:39] <jcoxon> and by now the helium would have vented sufficently for it not to go bouncing etc
[20:39] <jcoxon> Twiner, unfortunately not - got to do some surgery tomorrow :-)
[20:39] <Twiner> Aww.
[20:39] <jcoxon> H__, not yet though PD3EM went looking
[20:39] <Twiner> Good luck with that. :)
[20:43] <MikeMc68> Ring up CTU - They can get one of their spy satellites to find it within seconds
[20:44] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:46] <jcoxon> i reckon 3000mAh of batteries and at max a 20mA current so 150hrs
[20:46] <jcoxon> minus a bit for the transmission
[20:47] <MikeMc68> are any of teh Dutch guys going to go mobile in that general area and try and find it ?
[20:47] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:47] <jcoxon> they went looking today
[20:47] <MikeMc68> Great
[20:47] <jcoxon> and will try again tomorrow
[20:48] <MikeMc68> Well if it is still transmitting they will find it then
[20:48] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:49] <H__> pity that I don't have a receiver for that
[20:50] <fsphil> are there any pictures of the payload before launch?
[20:51] <jcoxon> fsphil, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/sets/72157623226106480/
[20:51] <fsphil> brilliant, thanks
[20:52] <jcoxon> though must admit they aren't great
[20:52] <jcoxon> mainly pictures of construction and then the damaged caused by the first attempt to launch
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[21:02] <MikeMc68> James what do you use for the gold covering ?
[21:04] Action: H__ waves to MikeMc68
[21:04] <MikeMc68> Hey H
[21:04] <MikeMc68> What are you doing in this channel ?
[21:07] <H__> witnessed yesterday's launch
[21:07] <H__> got a hint from allenk, turns out the balloon flew right at me :-D
[21:08] <jcoxon> MikeMc68, its just space blanket from decathalon
[21:08] <MikeMc68> ahh" mylar - cool
[21:09] <jcoxon> it seems pretty good at retain heat but also looks extra cool
[21:09] <MikeMc68> yeah make's it look like a real spacecraft - lol
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[21:42] <MikeMc68> I need an 8-Core Mac Pro - Rendering Full HD video takes so long
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[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:43] <LazyLeopard> MikeMc68: I wish! ;)
[21:45] <MikeMc68> I went to the apple site today to configure my ideal Mac Pro system for video editing
[21:46] <MikeMc68> came out at just over £9000
[21:46] <MikeMc68> I think i'll just suffer the longer render times till I win the lottery
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[22:11] <Twiner> MikeMc68: Really? Over £9000? :)
[22:12] <natrium42> impossible!
[22:12] Action: Twiner wonders why noone picked up on that one.
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[22:37] <MikeMc68> yeah
[22:37] <MikeMc68> if you choose all of the top of the range extras
[22:37] <MikeMc68> if money was no object :)
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[00:00] --- Mon Feb 22 2010