highaltitude.log.20100211

[00:00] <jcoxon> i've sent out quite a few emails so hopefully someone will volunteer to help out further south
[00:01] <G8DSU> I emailed a mate in France but he hasn't responded. Outside chance that he has appropriate kit. Also wondered whether to camp in my 10th floor office in Woking but probably not much of an advantage...
[00:01] <jcoxon> natrium42, okay i've worked out how we can make an online radio for you
[00:01] <jcoxon> G8DSU, great on the email, i'd stay comfortable at home :-)
[00:02] <N900evil> broadly speaking. range improves only when altitudes are similar with tolwers added
[00:02] <N900evil> if one is at 10km - well - altitude on the lolw end isn't imporant..
[00:03] <G8DSU> N900evil - yes, and even at that height I'd not see over the Downs a few miles to the south.
[00:04] <N900evil> google earth can wolrk
[00:04] <G8DSU> Bed calls. Talk soon.
[00:04] <jcoxon> if the worsed case occurs i'll drive down to the south coast and track from there
[00:04] <jcoxon> night G8DSU
[00:04] <N900evil> add a poi at your site
[00:05] <N900evil> see what height you can see it from with cam
[00:05] <N900evil> without terrain getting in way
[00:05] <jcoxon> right bed time for me too
[00:05] <jcoxon> night all
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[01:37] <juxta> hi all
[01:42] <juxta> rjharrison: are you about?
[01:42] <natrium42> yo juxta
[01:42] <juxta> hey natrium42
[01:42] <juxta> how's things?
[01:42] <natrium42> good, coding some camera stuff
[01:42] <natrium42> you?
[01:43] <juxta> not too bad, trying to design a board
[01:43] <juxta> this is my first crack at using eagle :)
[01:44] <natrium42> ah, let me know if you have any problems
[01:44] <natrium42> i use it quite a lot
[01:45] <juxta> had a hassle where I couldnt see my components before - but I got that sorted, colours etc were not ideally set :)
[01:46] <juxta> natrium42: next launch I'd like to have data logged more frequently - I'm thinking 1hz for GPS, temps, pressure etc - I'm thinking of offloading the RTTY to another uC
[01:47] <natrium42> good idea, i always log as quick as the data comes in (assuming that lat/lon/alt changed)
[01:47] <juxta> yea
[01:47] <juxta> I would do it on the same controller, but then it throws the timing for the RTTY out
[01:48] <natrium42> avr isn't great for multitasking
[01:49] <natrium42> second controller is probably a good idea
[01:49] <juxta> i'll just link them with a serial line, should make things easy
[01:49] <juxta> I need to get an AVR programmer, I'm using chips with the arduino bootloader pre-loaded at the moment
[01:50] <Endeavour> Natrium42.
[01:51] <Endeavour> Greetings.
[01:51] <natrium42> hey Endeavour
[01:51] <natrium42> any news?
[01:51] <Endeavour> Nope.
[01:51] <Endeavour> Just waiting on my 3D Printer.
[01:51] <natrium42> i want one too :S
[01:51] <natrium42> juxta, the best one there is would be avr jtagice mkii
[01:52] <natrium42> i got a cheap clone, not the original one
[01:52] <Endeavour> Got my team to all order some Arduinos and start to learn programming.
[01:52] <natrium42> it's quite expensive if you get it from atmel
[01:52] <juxta> natrium42: where did you get your clone?
[01:52] <natrium42> hm, let me check
[01:52] <juxta> cheers :)
[01:52] <Endeavour> Debating whether or not to do the balloon or not though
[01:53] <juxta> I was looking at the AVR-ISP MKII or the usbtiny one from ladyada
[01:55] <natrium42> hm, can't find it anymore
[01:55] <natrium42> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Emulator-AVR-JTAG-ICE-MKII-USB-mega-w-ISP_W0QQitemZ220551172971QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3359dfd36b
[01:55] <natrium42> there's ebay...
[01:58] <juxta> heh, I was hoping to get away under $50 ;p
[01:58] <juxta> natrium42: have you used the lassen IQ?
[01:58] <natrium42> yes, but not on flights
[01:59] <natrium42> it might be a good idea to add a back up battery to it
[01:59] <natrium42> a lithium coin cell
[02:00] <juxta> I'm just looking at Rob's schematic for the Icarus II board - do you know why both GPS RX lines are held high?
[02:00] <natrium42> then it will get lock much faster when you start the payload
[02:00] <SpeedEvil> juxta: is it i2c?
[02:00] <juxta> natrium42: yeah, I had backup battery on it this time, still took its time to get lock :(
[02:00] <natrium42> ah
[02:00] <juxta> SpeedEvil: no, just async serial
[02:00] <natrium42> juxta, the datasheet says to add some resistors
[02:01] <natrium42> not sure on which lines though
[02:01] <juxta> will double check it, cheers natrium42
[02:01] <natrium42> it's quite scary the way they word it
[02:01] <natrium42> something like the module might break if you don't add them...
[02:01] <juxta> haha
[02:06] <juxta> ok, found it natrium42
[02:07] <natrium42> are you still on for this weekend?
[02:10] <juxta> nah, no launch this weekend unfortunatley
[02:11] <juxta> too busy with other things :(
[02:12] <natrium42> kk
[02:13] <juxta> natrium42: do fuse values need to be changed on AVR's to vary the voltage they run at?
[02:45] <natrium42> only for the brown-out detector
[03:08] <juxta> natrium42: that's what I suspected - should be OK I think
[03:08] <juxta> also, running 2 AVR's on the same crystal/caps should be OK, shouldnt it?
[03:09] <N900evil> together?
[03:09] <natrium42> no
[03:09] <N900evil> no, that won't work simply
[03:09] <natrium42> hmm, do avrs have clock output?
[03:10] <natrium42> you can use clock output if you can configure it
[03:10] <N900evil> I mean
[03:10] <SpeedEvil> The crystal oscillator part of the avr has two pins
[03:11] <SpeedEvil> (doh)
[03:11] <SpeedEvil> these are input and output pins
[03:11] <SpeedEvil> you can connect the output pin of one to the input pin of the other.
[03:11] <SpeedEvil> With the crystal connected to the first
[03:11] <SpeedEvil> you probably would need to omit the cap on the pin connected to the other AVR
[03:11] <SpeedEvil> as that will do for that
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[03:16] <juxta> hmm
[03:17] <juxta> sounds like it might be safer to run them on their own crystals
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[04:35] <SpeedEvil> read the clocking section of hte datasheet caregfully
[04:35] <SpeedEvil> often it will go into these issues - at least obliquely
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[07:14] <natrium42> yo jcoxon
[07:17] <jcoxon> morning natrium42
[07:17] <jcoxon> i think my emails might finally have got to people
[07:17] <jcoxon> i see from view.php that a operator on Guernsey has installed dl-fldigi
[07:17] <jcoxon> and also WB8ELK
[07:19] <Endeavour> Hello natrium42
[07:19] <natrium42> jcoxon, excellent
[07:20] <natrium42> hi Endeavour
[07:20] <jcoxon> WB8ELK might be a little too far away
[07:20] <juxta> hi natrium42, jcoxon :)
[07:20] <jcoxon> but i think he finally might start using it for his own flights
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[07:24] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
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[07:25] <natrium_> jcoxon, i updated the tracker, does it look right?
[07:25] <jcoxon> yeah it looks great
[07:26] Action: natrium_ needs to update the graphics...
[07:27] <natrium_> i want to try drawing a balloon instead of those google markers
[07:27] <natrium_> and the distance between it and its shadow would signify altitude
[07:27] <natrium_> then it would switch to a parachute once descent is detected :P
[07:28] <jcoxon> hehe
[07:29] <juxta> that would be nifty natrium_ :D
[07:32] <jcoxon> could we have a car for car chasers
[07:32] <natrium_> yes
[07:32] <jcoxon> :-p
[07:32] <natrium_> with track that is off by default :P
[07:32] <jcoxon> also perhaps put the listeners on as well
[07:32] <jcoxon> again off by default
[07:33] <natrium_> so, ferrari or lambo?
[07:33] <jcoxon> aston :p
[07:33] <natrium_> pfft, brits
[07:34] <juxta> make it a Lada
[07:34] <natrium_> eww
[07:34] <natrium_> trabant!
[07:34] <juxta> haha
[07:34] <juxta> trabant's are awesome
[07:34] <natrium_> you have heard of trabant in australia?
[07:34] <juxta> I dont think there's a single one in Australia though somehow
[07:35] <juxta> a friend of mine in Germany has one
[07:35] <natrium_> hehe
[07:35] <natrium_> it's plastic with one powered wheel..
[07:35] <juxta> not plastic as such, it's cotton fibre mixed with a resin, isnt it?
[07:36] <natrium_> the pride of german democratic republic's engineers
[07:38] <natrium_> "The Trabant was a steel monocoque design with roof, bootlid/trunklid, bonnet/hood, bumpers/fenders and doors in Duroplast, a form of plastic containing resin strengthened by wool or cotton. This helped the GDR to avoid expensive steel import"
[07:38] <juxta> ahh, close enough :P
[07:38] <juxta> cotton car
[07:40] <jcoxon> hmmmmm if i get my filling calcs wrong on sat we could be flying over london
[07:40] <juxta> what happens if you fly over london jcoxon?
[07:41] <juxta> is there a way to put components on both sides of a board in the light version of EAGLE?
[07:41] <jcoxon> juxta, nothing much though really try and avoid it
[07:42] <jcoxon> my concern is that we are quite low altitude at this point
[07:42] <jcoxon> however we'll only over fly london (heathrow) if we have a high ascentrate
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[07:46] <juxta> fair enough jcoxon
[07:46] <juxta> your last launch went pretty high over Heathrow too, didn't it?
[07:46] <jcoxon> ideally going to be wanting 1.5 - 2m/s
[07:46] <juxta> ah, that's quite slow
[07:46] <jcoxon> it went quite high :-p
[07:47] <jcoxon> well we need it to float once sunset hits
[07:47] <juxta> I ended up with about 8m/s on my launch the other day, somewhat overfilled my balloon :)
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[07:47] <juxta> are you using a zero pressure ballon jcoxon, or a normal one?
[07:47] <jcoxon> normal one with pin hole vent
[07:48] <juxta> ah
[07:48] <juxta> in the thick part down the bottom?
[07:48] <jcoxon> we put a tube in the neck with a block end
[07:49] <jcoxon> and then the hole is in here
[07:53] <jcoxon> using burst1a.xls looks like we'll be wanting about 110 and 170g of free lift
[07:55] <juxta> hey natrium_, I looked up pricing on that pressure sensor you used
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[07:55] <juxta> Farnell Australia had it, but it was pretty pricey, around $150
[07:56] <natrium_> wow
[07:56] <natrium_> i think it cost me less than $20
[07:56] <juxta> :O
[07:56] <natrium_> digikey.com
[07:56] <juxta> I'll check it out
[07:56] <juxta> digikey were being assholes about shipping when I wanted something from them
[07:57] <juxta> I wanted a single 12mm coin cell battery holder, they wanted about 30 or 40 dollars for shipping on a 20c item
[07:57] <natrium_> they use express probably
[07:57] <juxta> and they refused to send it in anything besides a big padded box
[07:58] <juxta> you found the sensor pretty accurate, didnt you natrium_?
[08:01] <natrium_> yes, but it started to deviate above a certain altitude
[08:01] <natrium_> just need a profile with the gps data
[08:01] <MikeMc68> morning
[08:02] <juxta> hey MikeMc68
[08:03] <juxta> jcoxon: when are you launching?
[08:03] <juxta> natrium_: here's what I found on farnell: http://au.farnell.com/sensortechnics/asdx015a24r/transducer-amplified-pcb-mount/dp/4197586
[08:03] <jcoxon> juxta, sat 15:00UTC
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[08:19] <juxta> ah, I found another pressure sensor with a full range for less than $20
[08:23] <MikeMc68> which one?
[08:31] <juxta> there are a couple mike
[08:31] <juxta> they have *almost* the full range I'd like
[08:31] <juxta> 0-100 kPa
[08:32] <juxta> or there's a 0-200 kPa one also - but then I'm not going to use anything above 101-105kPa, unless I land in the grand canyon :)
[08:36] <MikeMc68> :)
[08:36] <MikeMc68> can you show me a link to jsut one of them please?
[08:37] <MikeMc68> I am looking for one that will go down to zero too
[08:37] <juxta> MikeMc68: http://au.farnell.com/freescale-semiconductor/mpx2100ap/sensor-abs-press-14-5psi-344b-4/dp/1457146
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[08:38] <MikeMc68> OUCH!!
[08:38] <MikeMc68> 10 volts !!
[08:38] <juxta> hmm
[08:38] <juxta> didnt see that bit
[08:39] <natrium_> jcoxon, new icons are working
[08:40] <natrium_> going to add them in the day
[08:40] <jcoxon> natrium_, yay
[08:40] <jcoxon> as a reward i shall construct you an online radio on friday evening
[08:40] <natrium_> :D
[08:41] <natrium_> i wish we had a graphics designer
[08:41] <natrium_> they could be animated too...
[08:42] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:42] <natrium_> imagine how nice an animated parachute would look
[08:42] <natrium_> maybe some day
[08:42] <natrium_> bed time, gnite
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[09:08] <jcoxon> hi ei7ig_laptop
[09:08] <ei7ig_laptop> morning
[09:09] <ei7ig_laptop> I saw somewhere (that I can't find now) a mention of a launch in the UK this Saturday.
[09:10] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:10] <jcoxon> I'm launching on Sat from Cambridge
[09:10] <jcoxon> have been searching for radio listeners
[09:10] <ei7ig_laptop> what do you expect the RF range will be? I'm on the South East Coast of Ireland.
[09:10] <russss> I still don't have an F connector! Or an antenna!
[09:11] <jcoxon> ei7ig_laptop, last flight someone got 420km
[09:11] <jcoxon> russss, sort it out!
[09:11] <russss> I'll do an RS next day
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[09:11] <russss> charge the shipping to the hackspace :P
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[09:11] <rjharrison_> Hey juxta
[09:12] <ei7ig_laptop> what's the link to the info again? I should be able to sort out a RTTY decoder for the duration.
[09:12] <rjharrison_> You tried to call yeasterday
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[09:12] <jcoxon> ei7ig_laptop, http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:ballasthalo:ballasthalo4#launch_plans
[09:12] <rjharrison_> moring ed
[09:12] <rjharrison_> jcoxon, very little in view.php last night
[09:12] <jcoxon> nah - loads
[09:12] <jcoxon> ei7ig_laptop, we have an auto uploading decoder program
[09:12] <rjharrison_> :) After I had gone to bed :)
[09:12] <jcoxon> its modified fldigi
[09:13] <jcoxon> http://code.google.com/p/dl-fldigi/
[09:13] <ei7ig_laptop> ah ok..let me have a gander.
[09:13] <jcoxon> rjharrison_, more importantly got some new listeners
[09:13] <jcoxon> ei7ig_laptop, a guide is here: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[09:13] <ei7ig_laptop> back in a min.. then I'll grab SVN and see if It'll build.
[09:13] <jcoxon> it might be a bit simple for you
[09:13] <jcoxon> ei7ig_laptop, there are binaries :-p
[09:14] <ei7ig_laptop> god no... I'm a build from source type of guy :)
[09:14] <jcoxon> oooo don't get the main trunk
[09:15] <jcoxon> need oldtrunk in branches
[09:15] <jcoxon> we are just in the process of a complete revamp
[09:15] <ei7ig_laptop> tarball anywhere?
[09:15] <russss> I wonder what kind of cable I should use. Problem is my PC can't really move from here, and the best line of sight is off my roof
[09:15] <russss> (which is 2 floors up)
[09:15] <russss> (and the access hatch is jammed shut)
[09:15] <rjharrison_> russss you need a long cable
[09:15] <rjharrison_> :)
[09:15] <russss> thanks for that.
[09:16] <edmoore> russss: do you have a clear outlook in any direction?
[09:16] <rjharrison_> Just some RG58 should be ok standard coax stuff
[09:16] <edmoore> where aboutsare you, do you mind me asking`/
[09:16] <edmoore> ?*
[09:16] <russss> edmoore: from my roof I have an excellent view in all directions
[09:17] <jcoxon> ei7ig_laptop, svn checkout http://dl-fldigi.googlecode.com/svn/branches/oldtrunk/ dl-fldigi
[09:17] <russss> I'm in Islington
[09:17] <rjharrison_> ei7ig_laptop where abouts are you?
[09:18] <jcoxon> view.php shows that a guernsey amateur radio operator has fired up dl-fldigi
[09:18] <jcoxon> and also wb8elk
[09:18] <russss> heh
[09:20] <MikeMc68> there are two guys I know that might be listening this weekend too
[09:20] <MikeMc68> they live in same area as me in Kent
[09:20] <MikeMc68> One has an AOR-8200 scanner
[09:20] <MikeMc68> no idea what the other guy has
[09:21] <jcoxon> MikeMc68, the more the better
[09:21] <MikeMc68> yeah
[09:23] <ei7ig_laptop> dumb question before I start the build.
[09:23] <ei7ig_laptop> is it using the gui as well? I'm building remotely.
[09:24] <ei7ig_laptop> ah it is..
[09:24] <ei7ig_laptop> I see it in the guide.
[09:24] <ei7ig_laptop> dumb question!
[09:25] <ei7ig_laptop> dumb question no 2... is it going to overwrite my existing fldigi settings or will it just 'use' them?
[09:25] <jcoxon> ei7ig_laptop, now that is a good question
[09:25] <jcoxon> we;ve added a number of fldigi settings
[09:25] <jcoxon> would be worth backuping up your .fldigi
[09:25] <ei7ig_laptop> FYI.. I've an FT-847, Watson 2000 vertical, pre-amp. and I'm far enough away, that I should get it fairly well off the omni
[09:26] <ei7ig_laptop> rgr on backing up.
[09:27] <jcoxon> ei7ig_laptop, even though the transmitter is 10mW :-) the range is excllent
[09:27] <russss> SpaceX keeps sending me shouty capitalised press releases
[09:28] <ei7ig_laptop> rgr, I normally use this set-up for rx'ing PCSAT/ISS etc
[09:29] <ei7ig_laptop> does the AFC work ?
[09:29] <rjharrison_> 857?
[09:29] <rjharrison_> ei7ig_laptop FT-857?
[09:29] <ei7ig_laptop> nope 847
[09:29] <juxta> hey rjharrison
[09:30] <ei7ig_laptop> rjharrison_: I know the name... how come?
[09:30] <rjharrison_> Hi juxta
[09:30] <jcoxon> ei7ig_laptop, it does
[09:30] <ei7ig_laptop> jcoxon: FYI, ubuntu 8.04LTS needed libcurl4-openssl-dev
[09:31] <rjharrison_> Ahh nice rig the 847
[09:32] <ei7ig_laptop> rjharrison_: yeah... still wondering about the name.. SWM or MM perhaps?
[09:33] <ei7ig_laptop> I've had the 847 from new
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[09:38] <juxta> MikeMc68: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/37723.pdf
[09:38] <juxta> rjharrison: working on that board I mentioned :)
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[09:39] <edmoore> hrm, i can't log in via colloquy
[09:39] <MikeMc68> 5v that's better
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[09:43] <edmoore_> odd
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[09:43] Nick change: edmoore_ -> edmoore
[09:48] <ei7ig_laptop> fldigi-dl built ok,
[09:49] <jcoxon> ei7ig_laptop, great
[09:50] <jcoxon> its pretty easy to setup
[09:50] <MikeMc68> guys
[09:50] <edmoore> yo
[09:51] <MikeMc68> someone has built the fl-digi from source code onto his iMac - it is working, but he is trying out the example .wav file and says the stock settings won't work
[09:51] <MikeMc68> can anyone tell me what the settings should be for him to decode it successfully please ?
[09:51] <edmoore> what is the wav file that he has?
[09:51] <MikeMc68> it's an older non-intel iMac btw
[09:53] <juxta> hmm, anyone familiar with the MPX5100 pressure senors? the MPX5100A is an absolute pressure sensor, with a range from 15-115kPa, the MPX5100D is a differential pressure sensor, with a range of 0-100kPa
[09:53] <MikeMc68> edmoore: not sure, let me find out
[09:53] <jcoxon> yeah it really depends on the wav file, and an imac will be challenged by decoding rtty
[09:54] <jcoxon> if its <700mhz it'll drop down to a different method
[09:54] <juxta> the MPX5100D is available with a single 'input' as such, would it have some sort of internal vacuum reference?
[09:55] <MikeMc68> I think he might be using one of these - http://spacenear.us/wiki/doku.php?id=dlistening:client
[09:57] <jcoxon> MikeMc68, the wavs at teh bottom?
[09:57] <jcoxon> those are MFSK
[09:57] <jcoxon> not RTTY
[09:58] <MikeMc68> maybe not then
[09:58] <MikeMc68> i'll find out what he is using
[09:58] <jcoxon> check out http://tenbus.co.uk/icaruscapture_30secs.wav
[09:58] <jcoxon> thats 30seconds of icarus
[09:59] <MikeMc68> thanks i'll let him know
[09:59] <jcoxon> ei7ig_laptop, dl-fldigi is working for you: http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/view.php if you add lat and lon it'll plot you on our listeners map
[10:00] <jcoxon> ei7ig_laptop, http://maps.google.com/?q=http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/receivers.php&t=p
[10:01] <ei7ig_laptop> changed.. not sure how to get it to post again.
[10:01] <russss> we really need someone on the south coast/isle of wight :P
[10:01] <MikeMc68> that is him testing - lazy leopard
[10:01] <jcoxon> ei7ig_laptop, it'll send it every 15mins
[10:01] <edmoore> jcoxon: what is the latest binary for mac of dl-fldigi?
[10:01] <ei7ig_laptop> ok... time for Tea then :)
[10:01] <edmoore> woo it still works for me
[10:02] <edmoore> good to check these things from time to time :)
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[10:02] <jcoxon> edmoore, there is a new binary then yours i think
[10:02] <jcoxon> r63
[10:02] <edmoore> where does it live?
[10:03] <jcoxon> just checking - one sec
[10:04] <jcoxon> its the one on the downloads
[10:04] <jcoxon> http://code.google.com/p/dl-fldigi/downloads/list
[10:06] <jcoxon> its actually not the latest so i'll get on an make a new one later
[10:07] <juxta> jcoxon: what's been updated in dl-fldigi? :)
[10:08] <edmoore> websdr is so cool
[10:09] <jcoxon> oh just made rx extract on by default and also making it report teh version number onto view.php
[10:09] <edmoore> give me a shout when it's available and i'll upgrade and test
[10:10] <jcoxon> edmoore, to tell the truth its probably more hassle
[10:10] <jcoxon> your version is just fine
[10:10] <edmoore> ok, will stick with
[10:10] <jcoxon> thats teh on i'm using
[10:10] <jcoxon> one*
[10:17] <jcoxon> okay ,just emailed the Isle of Wight Radio Soc
[10:19] <jcoxon> rjharrison ping
[10:24] <edmoore> it has just been posted to amsat-bb
[10:25] <jcoxon> yay
[10:25] <jcoxon> hehe
[10:25] <edmoore> so thats a few thousand hams with UHF kit
[10:26] <jcoxon> right just got G8BKE on view.php
[10:26] <jcoxon> who is based near bournemouth
[10:26] <edmoore> perfect
[10:26] <russss> cool
[10:27] <edmoore> the winds are serios for saturday
[10:27] <edmoore> it's heading south like a rocket
[10:27] <jcoxon> yeah
[10:28] <jcoxon> might be an issue once in france
[10:28] <russss> maybe we need some more jambons francais.
[10:30] <jcoxon> edmoore, yeah G3VZV who posted on amsat got in contact last night
[10:30] <edmoore> cool
[10:30] <jcoxon> he is based near milton keynes with az/el antenna
[10:30] <edmoore> do you know if he went to the colloqium?
[10:30] <edmoore> his call vaguely rings a bell
[10:30] <jcoxon> i don't
[10:30] <jcoxon> know
[10:31] <jcoxon> edmoore, oh did i say we've got a france notam as well
[10:31] <edmoore> awesome
[10:32] <jcoxon> now the challenge will be getting the slow ascent rate :-)
[10:33] <rjharrison_> jcoxon pong
[10:33] <jcoxon> we need to think about using UTC for the listener
[10:34] <jcoxon> as dl-fldigi gets local time i think
[10:34] <jcoxon> which might mess things up with people in different time zones
[10:34] <rjharrison_> OK np!
[10:34] <jcoxon> e.g. if you look on view.php WB8ELK is in a diff timezone so doesn't display on the map
[10:34] <rjharrison_> But dl-fldigi doesn't send time!
[10:35] <rjharrison_> Just the payload string?
[10:35] <jcoxon> really?
[10:35] <jcoxon> on the ZZ string?
[10:35] <rjharrison_> Oh that
[10:35] <rjharrison_> I forgot about that
[10:35] <rjharrison_> I'll just ignore and use the server time
[10:37] <jcoxon> pah we can change dl-fldigi as well
[10:37] <jcoxon> timeinfo = localtime ( &rawtime );
[10:37] <jcoxon> strftime(date_time,80,"%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S",timeinfo);
[10:37] <jcoxon> localtime to gmtime
[10:40] <rjharrison_> OK but there is sense in taking the time from the server as it prevents inconsistancies and local locks being wrong etc...
[10:40] <rjharrison_> clocks
[10:40] <jcoxon> true
[10:40] <rjharrison_> we could just abandon the date stamp in the ZZ
[10:41] <rjharrison_> and I could start by ignoring it
[10:41] <jcoxon> hmmm i think its still useful
[10:47] <ei7ig_laptop> fldigi seems to be working ok.. btw.. I'm using GPS time on the machine.
[10:48] <jcoxon> the time isn't really important :-)
[10:48] <ei7ig_laptop> ok.
[10:48] <jcoxon> just on our listeners map its used to decided when you were last logging data etc
[10:50] <jcoxon> seems like the flight just got posted on the hyperfr mailing list
[10:50] <jcoxon> which is the french vhf etc one i think
[10:50] <jcoxon> ping edmoore
[10:50] <jcoxon> can you try new version of osx dl-fldigi
[10:50] <jcoxon> http://code.google.com/p/dl-fldigi/downloads/list
[10:51] <edmoore> ta
[11:04] <jcoxon> this is getting exciting :-)
[11:05] <edmoore> you guys should come for brunch at 11 in churchill before heading out into the cold. a heartly churchill brunch used to be the de-facto requirement for hab launches :)
[11:06] <jcoxon> brunch will be full of very hungover people
[11:06] <edmoore> you'll oass by unoticed then :)
[11:08] <jcoxon> will see how i'm going :-)
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[11:15] <rjharrison_> jcoxon, I'm going to be launching ICARUS II in the next good wx window
[11:15] <rjharrison_> I have a pass
[11:15] <rjharrison_> This will be on 3kg so it really does need to be good
[11:15] <rjharrison_> And UK bound.
[11:17] <jcoxon> hehe, great
[11:17] <jcoxon> alt record attempt?
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[11:22] <juxta> rjharrison: what will you have onboard the 3kg launch? just an icarus board?
[11:22] <rjharrison_> Yep and a camera, pics are everything :)
[11:23] <rjharrison_> Even though the payload will not go as high
[11:23] <rjharrison_> jcoxon, yep that old chestnut
[11:23] <juxta> oh nice rjharrison :)
[11:24] <rjharrison_> Icarus III payload is inconstruction but not suitalbe for alt attempt
[11:24] <juxta> has anybody used this module before?
[11:24] <rjharrison_> That has servo controlled camera onboard for new pics and videos at multiple angles
[11:24] <juxta> http://www.esawdust.com/products/egps/egps-fsa03-bkob.html
[11:25] <jcoxon> juxta, i've seen the module but hte breakout looks great
[11:26] <jcoxon> thats a really good module now
[11:26] <juxta> yeah - it's so cheap, and is supposed to be very sensitive etc too
[11:26] <rjharrison_> juxta looks great to me
[11:26] <juxta> and there's an eagle lib available for the module tiself
[11:26] <rjharrison_> jcoxon loves his ublox
[11:27] <jcoxon> yeah i miss them - stupid lassen
[11:27] <juxta> why did you switch the lassen jcoxon/
[11:27] <juxta> ?
[11:27] <edmoore> ublox are the best, fo sho
[11:27] <jcoxon> juxta, there aren't many cheap gps modules
[11:27] <jcoxon> and as most ballasthalos end up ditching :-p
[11:28] <juxta> ah
[11:28] <juxta> hehe
[11:28] <jcoxon> also there weren't many standalone ubloxes
[11:28] <juxta> where do you get your lassen's from jcoxon?
[11:28] <jcoxon> but increasingly there are
[11:28] <jcoxon> diamondpoint
[11:29] <jcoxon> they are only 29GBP
[11:29] <juxta> I think I'll order that ublox one - it's the same price as the lassen IQ from sparkfun essentially
[11:29] <juxta> ah that's quite cheap jcoxon
[11:30] <juxta> I have shipping on anything I buy too of course :)
[11:30] <jcoxon> oh yeah, that ublox is massively superior
[11:30] <jcoxon> 50channels verses 12!
[11:31] <juxta> jcoxon: I never understood why 50 channels would be useful - are there even 50 GPS sats orbiting?
[11:31] <jcoxon> no there aren't :-)
[11:32] <juxta> didnt think so ;p
[11:32] <jcoxon> but it allows for more monitoring of signals
[11:33] <juxta> fair enough
[11:33] <russss> I don't even understand what a "channel" comprises in GPS, don't they all transmit on the same frequency?
[11:33] <juxta> yeah they do russss, but they use TDMA
[11:35] <russss> GPS is deep magic
[11:38] <juxta> gotta get me a GLONASS receiver
[11:42] <jcoxon> bbl
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[11:52] <edmoore> junderwood: it's CDMA, not TDMA
[11:53] <edmoore> I don't think TDMA would work very well for GPS - tracking the doppler would be tough
[11:55] <juxta> edmoore: ah, sorry, CDMA, my mistake :)
[11:55] <edmoore> oh sorry, my autocompletion failed
[11:55] <edmoore> too many ju*s
[11:55] <juxta> hehe
[11:56] <edmoore> russss: in our amsat talk, the basics of gps are explained
[11:56] <edmoore> the video is online somewhere
[11:57] <MikeMc68> here is what this guy says about his version of fl-digi with the sample wav.....
[11:57] <MikeMc68> 1) The selected spectrum window on the waterfall. I can't get mine to cover the tramlines properly. Best I can do is stretch it over about two thirds of the required width, which means it probably either sees the ones or the zeros but not both. There must be a setting to change the window width, but I've not found it yet.
[11:57] <MikeMc68> 2) Actually decoding the data. Now, sorting the first may magically sort this, but I'm guessing that somewhere the software needs to be told how many bits per character and what parity, data rate, and so on to expect. Again, not convinced I've found the correct setting.
[11:58] <edmoore> 1) Op Mode > RTTY > custom > Carrier shift
[11:59] <edmoore> 2) Op Mode > RTTY > custom > all of the other settings that define each of what you listed
[12:01] <MikeMc68> are the settings listed anywhere?
[12:02] <edmoore> well infact, configure > operator > DL Client (tab) then selecting icarus should set it all automagically
[12:11] <MikeMc68> cheers
[12:11] <edmoore> working?
[12:12] <MikeMc68> no idea
[12:13] <jonsowman> hi all
[12:14] <MikeMc68> hi
[12:19] <juxta> has anybody used batchPCB before?
[12:22] <MikeMc68> no
[12:42] <MikeMc68> considered it so would like to know what theya re like myself
[12:43] <juxta> well I'll tell you when i found out I guess MikeMc68 ;p
[12:43] <juxta> about to shoot them an email now
[12:43] <MikeMc68> cool
[12:59] <rjharrison_> MikeMc68 configure > operator > DL Client (tab) then selecting THE PAYLOAD should sort it
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[13:00] <MikeMc68> cheers
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[13:15] <junderwood> Idea for listener / tracker improvement: How about modifiying the tracker to accept reception frequency from listeners in addition to their position. Then it should be possibly to set up completely autonomous listeners.
[13:16] <junderwood> i.e. grab the current frequency and position, tune and point. No human required to fiddle the tuning dial
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[13:54] <rjharrison_> That is easier said that done. We have had mixed results in getting the computer to control the rig from fldigi
[13:59] <edmoore> i also wonder about variations between radios being larger than the fidelity required to accurately get the matched-filter cross-hairs on the target
[13:59] <edmoore> i guess it just has to gwet close enough that fldigi can do the rest
[14:10] <junderwood> fldigi seems to control my rig OK using hamlib but I guess others' experiences may differ.
[14:10] <junderwood> Not sure about the variations between radios but I guess they are much smaller than the drift in frequencies during a flight
[14:11] <junderwood> And radio to radio variation can probably be calibrated out.
[14:11] <junderwood> (I guess it's constant within a small frequency range)
[14:13] <rjharrison_> junderwood, wahts your rig
[14:13] <rjharrison_> what's
[14:22] <junderwood> AOR8000 (scanner)
[14:22] <junderwood> (ancient)
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[15:08] <ei7ig_laptop> back.. sorry was away there for a good bit
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[16:56] <jcoxon> hey all
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[17:00] Nick change: sbasuita_ -> sbasuita
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[17:22] <MikeMc68> evening
[17:22] <jcoxon> hey MikeMc68
[17:22] <jcoxon> sort out those fldigi issues?
[17:22] <MikeMc68> yeah he's got it running now
[17:23] <jcoxon> good good
[17:23] <MikeMc68> works fine with the sample wav now
[17:24] <jcoxon> great
[17:26] <jcoxon> MikeMc68, i might be able tomorrow evening to pump out some telem from london towards you if you want to test real time
[17:26] <MikeMc68> via radio?
[17:27] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:27] <jcoxon> can't be that far
[17:28] <MikeMc68> about 16 miles i think
[17:28] <MikeMc68> thanks - i'll let him know
[17:29] <jcoxon> hmmm i might not have time actually
[17:29] <MikeMc68> lol ok
[17:29] <jcoxon> need to make an online radio for natrium
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[17:36] <MikeMc68> online radio?
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[17:37] <edmoore> MikeMc68:
[17:37] <jcoxon> oh i'm going to rig my ft790 to be controlled
[17:37] <MikeMc68> oh i see
[17:37] <MikeMc68> cool
[17:38] <MikeMc68> what would be the benefit of that?
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> allow someone else to run the radio if you're not there
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> for launches
[17:40] <MikeMc68> ahh just learnt he went to W&S today to buy an FT-817
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[17:42] <jcoxon> wow thats a nice radio
[17:43] <MikeMc68> yeah i'm jealous
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[18:20] <natrium42> \o
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[18:23] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[18:24] <jcoxon> hey LazyLeopard
[18:24] <natrium42> hi james
[18:24] <jcoxon> natrium42, you any good at php?
[18:24] <natrium42> i am ok, what's up?
[18:25] <jcoxon> need to make an interface for the radio
[18:25] <natrium42> ok, do you have some webserver running?
[18:25] <MikeMc68> hi LazyLeopard
[18:25] <jcoxon> will do tomorrow evening
[18:26] <LazyLeopard> Hiya
[18:26] <jcoxon> basically i plan to make an interface for the radio (freq up, down, radio on, off
[18:26] <jcoxon> )
[18:27] <jcoxon> and then using xml-rpc intergrate something with dl-fldigi
[18:27] <jcoxon> so you can shift the decode bars up and down
[18:27] <jcoxon> then have some form of screenshotting of the waterfall for more info
[18:27] <jcoxon> and finally rig streaming of the audio as well
[18:27] <natrium42> ah
[18:28] <natrium42> so you want a php for the "gui"?
[18:29] <natrium42> xml-rpc can be done through javascript
[18:29] <DanielRichman> if the server's running at home, jcoxon, wouldn't it just be more simple to open another port, have whatever piece of C programming you have connected to the radio open a socket... and have dl-fldigi connect to that and send single byte commands?
[18:29] <DanielRichman> stage two: Ethernet for arduino
[18:30] <jcoxon> okay well the radio will be controlled via an arduino
[18:31] <jcoxon> we could open the xml-rpc socket to the world
[18:31] <jcoxon> from dl-fldigi
[18:31] <DanielRichman> no need. If controlled by an arduino... that arduino will be connected via serial to your server pc...
[18:32] <DanielRichman> you just need to connect the arduino's serial connection to the internet; open a port
[18:32] <DanielRichman> a quick C daemon will do the trick (OR... you could write it using netcat and bash?)
[18:32] <DanielRichman> if you want authentication you could do that
[18:32] <DanielRichman> Then fldigi connects to that port, sends byte commands; no xml required
[18:33] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, a php page with a few commands would be pretty easy though
[18:33] <natrium42> could also run a webserver and the scripts (php?) can call the tool to control arduino
[18:33] <DanielRichman> What's the fldigi connection for then?
[18:33] <DanielRichman> Have Fldigi auto-adjust the frequency?
[18:34] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, it has quite a limited afc
[18:34] <DanielRichman> natrium42, yeah, I guess that's how you could connect it anyway since php can open sockets itself
[18:34] <DanielRichman> netcat -l -p 81 > /dev/ttyUSB0
[18:34] <DanielRichman> would do the trick though (to a limited,one-client,proof of concept extent)
[18:34] <natrium42> :D
[18:35] <rjharrison_> wow i'm out of my depth here
[18:35] <rjharrison_> James just way what you want and let them knock somehting up
[18:35] <rjharrison_> just say
[18:36] <jcoxon> okay well i'm going to say that there will be 4 commands available
[18:36] <jcoxon> freq up, freq down, radio on and radio off
[18:36] <rjharrison_> jcoxon how about vnc into your machine
[18:36] <rjharrison_> I'm going to be about
[18:36] <rjharrison_> Rig control?
[18:36] <jcoxon> will have to use dead reckoning
[18:36] <DanielRichman> vnc with a password :X
[18:37] <rjharrison_> Sol long as the I can control your rig I'm sure we have done this before
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[18:38] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, be sure to build in a timeout so that noone ends up leaving your rig on overnight
[18:39] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, good point
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[18:39] <jcoxon> though i plan to be back :-p
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[18:40] <DanielRichman> How are you connecting the arduino to the radio, jcoxon ? Some servos or some sort of digital shazzle on the back
[18:40] <natrium42> jcoxon, if you're not back by midnight
[18:40] <jcoxon> servo to control the on/off and relays to go up and down in freq
[18:40] <natrium42> we will tell people your story
[18:40] <jcoxon> natrium42, thanks
[18:40] <natrium42> np :D
[18:41] <jcoxon> a true friend :-)
[18:42] <rjharrison_> lol
[18:42] <rjharrison_> What radio are you leaving at home?
[18:42] <rjharrison_> The old crap one? :-P
[18:44] <jcoxon> the tremendous ft790
[18:44] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, Mock GCSES are over (well; maths tomorrow but that doesn't count) so I'll be available to join in coding something C/PHP if you want
[18:44] <jcoxon> don't say bad things about it
[18:44] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, well i'll get the hardware sorted and then we can go from there
[18:44] <jcoxon> won't be back in london till ~6 tomorrow
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> why do you care about all night?
[18:45] <natrium42> cool, then DanielRichman can work on that
[18:46] <natrium42> i will fix up the tracker a bit
[18:46] <DanielRichman> iirc you wanna fix the SQL injection holes on that natrium42
[18:46] <natrium42> pfft
[18:47] <DanielRichman> although ofc no disrespect to the awesome piece of kit that it is
[18:49] <natrium42> well, my server runs with magic quotes on :P
[18:52] <DanielRichman> :o
[18:53] <DanielRichman> SQL injection just makes me want to cry when I see it :(
[18:53] <DanielRichman> 'spose it's k if you know t he server and have magic quotes
[18:55] <DanielRichman> bbl
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[19:02] <rjharrison_> natrium42 oh ot be young again
[19:02] <rjharrison_> to
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[19:07] <natrium42> bbl
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[19:15] <MikeMc68> back
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[19:47] <jcoxon> evening RocketBoy
[19:48] <jcoxon> is there anything i need to sort for launching from EARS?
[19:56] <RocketBoy> I don't think so - I'll bring the balloons,chute,helium,fill tube,groundsheet,line,cable ties & tools
[19:57] <RocketBoy> do you know if edmoore will be about - I need to give him some stuff
[19:59] <jcoxon> depends on his alcohol consumption the night before
[20:00] <RocketBoy> the garage say my van should be fixed tomorrow - so should have that - If not I'll let you know tomorrow.
[20:00] <jcoxon> okay :-S
[20:03] <RocketBoy> whats the current track looking like?
[20:04] <jcoxon> forecast is holding
[20:05] <jcoxon> so west then south, still outside M25, crossing into the channel over portsmouth then onto france
[20:05] <jcoxon> my main worry is getting the right ascent rate
[20:05] <jcoxon> will bring scaes
[20:05] <jcoxon> scales
[20:06] <RocketBoy> I keep getting server busy from the CUSF predictor - have done for a couple of days
[20:06] <jcoxon> yeah i run my own now
[20:06] <RocketBoy> I'll bring the water bottles
[20:07] <RocketBoy> twas a 30" chute?
[20:07] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:07] <jcoxon> big payload
[20:08] <jcoxon> some how
[20:08] <jcoxon> i think it might be the EPS i'm using
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[20:09] Nick change: sbasuita_ -> sbasuita
[20:10] <MikeMc68> ok i give up...
[20:10] <MikeMc68> What's EPS ?
[20:10] <jcoxon> expanded polystyrne
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[20:10] <MikeMc68> Ahh!
[20:11] <MikeMc68> I was trying to figure out how you had heavy Encapsulated Post Script
[20:12] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:24] <jcoxon> hey all
[20:24] <jcoxon> thoughts on time between backup beacon telem
[20:25] <jcoxon> as they could potentially clash was thinking of having it occasionally
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> is the beacon morse?
[20:25] <jcoxon> say every 15mins
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> IOr what?
[20:25] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> I would say at least 1 min/15
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> Or maybe something like 1 min/5 for an hour period every 6 hours
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[20:30] <SpeedEvil> But that's possibly getting into the realms of too complex
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> you don't want a random reset meaning you get nothing for the next 3 hours
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> At reset it should transmit then wait 15 min of course
[20:32] <jcoxon> i think we'll go for 3 strings every 15mins
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> what's that in terms of on-time?
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[20:36] <jcoxon> hmmmm not too long
[20:36] <jcoxon> perhaps i'll add a tone as well
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> or some fixed 'eeeeeeeee' string at the start
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> to make it maybe a bit easier
[20:38] <jcoxon> i was going for VVV
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[20:38] <SpeedEvil> that too
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[20:49] <jcoxon> ping rjharrison
[20:59] <jcoxon> right we have our first french amateur radio operator
[20:59] <jcoxon> seems like he has tracked radiosondes before
[20:59] <jcoxon> and has 2x13 element array
[21:03] <MikeMc68> excellent
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[21:04] <jcoxon> just sent him an email with a link to dl-fldigi and the guide through google translate
[21:04] <jcoxon> and we also have the guernsey ham
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[21:06] <jcoxon> though for some reason its not working for him
[21:06] <jcoxon> oh i see, he hasn't used decimal degs
[21:07] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, the decimal degrees for location puzzled me for a while, too...
[21:07] <MikeMc68> LazyLeopard are you here?
[21:07] <LazyLeopard> Hi Mike
[21:07] <LazyLeopard> "Rick" works, too. ;)
[21:08] <MikeMc68> Hey Rick
[21:08] <MikeMc68> You all set for tomorrow?
[21:08] <MikeMc68> Going to help track?
[21:08] <jcoxon> MikeMc68, its sat not fri!
[21:08] <LazyLeopard> I hope I'll be set by Saturday. ;)
[21:09] <MikeMc68> DOH!
[21:09] <MikeMc68> I mean Sat
[21:09] <MikeMc68> I keep thinking it is Friday today
[21:09] <LazyLeopard> Been a long week?
[21:09] <MikeMc68> tell me about it
[21:09] <jcoxon> LazyLeopard, hey
[21:09] <jcoxon> what antenna are you planning to use?
[21:10] <LazyLeopard> I have a whip already wired up, and a 10-element yagi that needs me to do some soldering...
[21:11] <jcoxon> great
[21:11] <jcoxon> seems like you are all set
[21:11] <LazyLeopard> ...so, with luck, the yagi.
[21:11] <MikeMc68> Ooh you got a Yagi or you are making one ?
[21:12] <LazyLeopard> Bought one in sort-of kitfo rm...
[21:12] <LazyLeopard> kit-form, even.
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[21:15] <MikeMc68> Sounds like fun
[21:15] <LazyLeopard> Just got the feed cable to put together now, and then figure how to handle it...
[21:15] <MikeMc68> I bought loads of aluminium rod, brass rod, wooden doweling and other odds and sods at the weekend to make my own
[21:16] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, I contemplated that approach, but time's short...
[21:16] <MikeMc68> yeah i'm thinking I might make the boom end slightly longer than necessary, add counter weights to it, and fit something to allow me to attach it to my tripod
[21:17] <LazyLeopard> Instant rotation device. ;)
[21:17] <MikeMc68> exactly
[21:20] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54887212.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:22] <jcoxon> hi Lunar_Lander
[21:22] <MikeMc68> Hey
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[21:23] <jcoxon> good thanks
[21:23] <jcoxon> finishing touches to BH4
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> two days left
[21:23] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:23] <jcoxon> 1d 17hrs
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[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> you gave me that link to that prediction website
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> and you showed me that map where it plotted several predictions on a curve
[21:25] <jcoxon> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> how can I make it to make such a "show all landing sites for a time interval"
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[21:25] <jcoxon> its unfortunately preset
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> ah I see
[21:26] <jcoxon> you'd need to chat to members of CUSF - they prob won't change it though
[21:26] <jcoxon> as we use it to find good days to launch
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> but I tested the other site with sites in Germany and Slovenia and that worked well :)
[21:27] <jcoxon> oh this: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/predict/index.php
[21:27] <jcoxon> ?
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> yes!
[21:29] <jcoxon> yeah its great isn't it
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> it is really cool
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> and I saw predictions from the American EOSS team
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> and they were like standing there and the balloon came down within sight
[21:32] <MikeMc68> James - I was thinking the other day - of making a simulator for pumping artificial data into the controller board
[21:33] <MikeMc68> like take the current weather and wind conditions and then pump altitude and location data (like a GHPS string) into the microcontroller so you can test kit almost as if it were for real
[21:33] <jcoxon> yeah that would be amazing
[21:33] <jcoxon> we have fake gps generator from kml already
[21:33] <jcoxon> but it would be nice to make a loop
[21:33] <MikeMc68> but I mean real live weather conditions
[21:34] <jcoxon> it would be very cool
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> oh no
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> "Server Busy"
[21:41] <jcoxon> yeah that'll happen a bit
[21:41] <jcoxon> if someone else is using it
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> I'm trying to simulate the following
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> a start from Halifax, Newfoundland and a day floating time
[21:43] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, looking into trans-atlantic?
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah ;)
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> but not in reality
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> just in the sim
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> and it still is overloaded :(
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> but can I throw in a ground-base suggestion ;)?
[21:50] <jcoxon> go for it
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> No need to spend money on isotonic drinks: A mix of equal parts of apple juice and sodium-rich mineral water will do too
[21:50] <jcoxon> right
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> Or a some coke and a bag of crisps.
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> well, coke is hypertonic
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> and it needs to be processed and actually can cause dehydration
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> Not with the bag of (salty) crisps
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> err
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> nvm
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> sory - tired
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> no problem
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[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> how long do you think will the trans-atlantic flight last?
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> up to now we got everything from one day to one week
[22:04] <jcoxon> 3 days
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:04] <jcoxon> you'd want to launch in fast jetstream conditions
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> of course
[22:04] <jcoxon> as you have a limited supply of He in the balloon
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> do you also know which flight made it in one day?
[22:05] <jcoxon> one day?
[22:05] <jcoxon> i don't know of a flight that has done it in one day
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> Breitling Orbiter 3, in 1999
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[22:06] Nick change: G8DSU_ -> G8DSU
[22:07] <jcoxon> oh right
[22:07] <jcoxon> thats a bit different
[22:07] <jcoxon> different type of balloon
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :P
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> and do you also know the one who took a week?
[22:09] <jcoxon> nope
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> that was Kevin Uliassi, in J.Renee in 2000
[22:09] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, you are a library of knowledge
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> it was to be a round-the-world flight also, but he got a very slow track across the Atlantic
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[22:10] <jcoxon> in regards to amateur high altitude ballooning no one has made it across the atlantic yet
[22:10] <jcoxon> though they have come very close
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> and I assume there is also the next challenge ready
[22:11] <jcoxon> yup
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> when the Atlantic is done, we go to the Pacific :P
[22:12] <jcoxon> :-s
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> and when that is done, we do the Indian Ocean
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> and then round-the-world and then the North Pole
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:15] <MikeMc68> Moon shot
[22:15] <MikeMc68> Moon by Balloon
[22:15] <DanielRichman> Nah, we'll skip the moon since that's been done; next stop: Mars
[22:15] <MikeMc68> true
[22:16] <DanielRichman> actually that's been done
[22:16] <DanielRichman> gah
[22:16] <DanielRichman> er... Jupiter anyone?
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> no wait
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> there had been no Mars balloons jet
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> *yet
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> only Venus
[22:16] <DanielRichman> There's been no Moon balloons?
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> Vega 1 and 2 brought Balloons to Venus
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> but that is about it with balloons in space
[22:18] <MikeMc68> Mars would be a real challenge for a balloon with that thin atmosphere
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> yes
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[22:29] <natrium42> oy
[22:29] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> hi natrium42
[22:29] <natrium42> hi james and lunar
[22:31] <rjharrison> hi all
[22:31] <rjharrison> back from my M0
[22:31] <jcoxon> rjharrison oh hi
[22:31] <jcoxon> how did that go?
[22:32] <rjharrison> Fine it's just the course aatm
[22:32] <rjharrison> exam in june
[22:32] <jcoxon> i should get round to doing my intermediate some time
[22:32] <jcoxon> rjharrison, natrium42 so we've got a french ham
[22:32] <rjharrison> you pinged
[22:32] <rjharrison> cool
[22:32] <jcoxon> and also a guerney ham
[22:32] <rjharrison> let me see have they gon digital
[22:33] <jcoxon> guernsey*
[22:33] <rjharrison> perhaps a sample string in the GUI
[22:33] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:33] <jcoxon> thats easily done
[22:34] <rjharrison> Humm I don't see any antennas yet
[22:34] <rjharrison> Not a good sign that they have got things working
[22:35] <jcoxon> check view.php
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[22:37] <natrium42> hey rob
[22:37] <natrium42> jcoxon, oh excellent
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[22:43] <rjharrison> bloody internet
[22:48] <Laurenceb> sup
[22:48] Action: Laurenceb back
[22:50] <natrium42> rjharrison, how is icarus III?
[22:52] Action: natrium42 fails @ art
[22:53] Action: Laurenceb is happy as CFLs are cheap again
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[22:54] Action: SpeedEvil has a bag of 40 in the attic to add attic lighting
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> thin 2-core flex - solder a bulb on every 60cm
[22:55] <Laurenceb> http://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Browse?storeId=20001&langId=-1&c_2=2|cat_16849318|Light+bulbs|14418038&c_1=1|category_root|Lighting|16849318&c_3=3|cat_14418038|Energy+saving|14327558
[22:55] <Laurenceb> bleh huge url
[22:56] <Laurenceb> but crazy cheap noe eon have started subsidising phillips bulbs
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[22:58] <Laurenceb> its not of the site but you can pick up 4 of the 12W spirals for £1.50
[22:58] <Laurenceb> *on
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[23:00] <edmoore> what's new?
[23:01] <Laurenceb> you
[23:01] <jcoxon> evening Laurenceb and edmoore
[23:01] <Laurenceb> its true and it rhymes
[23:02] <natrium42> it's true because it rhymes
[23:02] <rjharrison> ping jcoxon
[23:02] <jcoxon> rjharrison, yes
[23:02] <rjharrison> You may like this james http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/view.php?reg=/M6JCX%20:%20ATLAS/
[23:02] <rjharrison> ah well the %20 is a space
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/0,1000001991,40022669,00.htm - chip and pin broken. In cambridge too.
[23:03] <jcoxon> it works
[23:03] <natrium42> rjharrison, is it possible to grab stats on the listeners somehow?
[23:03] <rjharrison> but basically its a reg expression
[23:03] <rjharrison> natrium42 sure what stats do you want
[23:03] <rjharrison> ie who is listenin etc?
[23:03] <natrium42> hmm, actually, is it possible to get which listeners received a position?
[23:04] <natrium42> then i could draw animated wavy lines once a position comes in
[23:04] <natrium42> around the station
[23:04] <natrium42> or stations
[23:05] <rjharrison> Humm, Yep if you know the positions lat,lng and alt then I guess I can give you a list of the loggers callsigns
[23:05] <rjharrison> Shall I do that
[23:05] <rjharrison> How would you like the results
[23:05] <natrium42> is it possible to send a list of receivers with each position?
[23:06] <natrium42> or do you only get it later?
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[23:06] <rjharrison> Well I post the position to you as soon as I get it. So from the first logger
[23:06] <rjharrison> the other data is posted to you too but you drop identical lat,long,alt
[23:07] <rjharrison> I can add the initial logger to the upload if you like
[23:07] <natrium42> ok, can you post the ID and the receiver then, it's fine if there are duplicate IDs (but different receivers)
[23:08] <rjharrison> Ok whats the current format for that
[23:08] <natrium42> there is none, just add the fields and name them at your discretion :)
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[23:09] <natrium42> then i will add them in
[23:09] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: your suggestion for aluminium as a anemometer fin - its only 16% worse than copper
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> speed of heat?
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> or what metric - I forgot
[23:10] <Laurenceb> so not too bad, but silver is 50% better
[23:10] <Laurenceb> conductivity/heat capacity
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> ah
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> diamond!
[23:11] <natrium42> i will also add "horizon"
[23:11] <natrium42> i.e. circle where there is LOS to the payload
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> SRTM?
[23:11] <edmoore> natrium42: that would be super useful
[23:12] <SpeedEvil> http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/
[23:12] <edmoore> geometric horizon and perhaps radio horizon too?
[23:12] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: its very easy to get 20Hz or so bandwidth for the sensor
[23:12] <SpeedEvil> though that would be lots more complex
[23:12] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: that's surprisingly good
[23:12] <Laurenceb> yeah, as good as the pressure sensors
[23:12] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: what sort of noise figure?
[23:12] <natrium42> edmoore, hmm, how do i calculate radio horizon?
[23:12] <Laurenceb> dunno - have to build it
[23:13] <Laurenceb> as long as you have laminar flow...
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_zone natrium42
[23:13] <Laurenceb> and the currents and voltages involved are sensible, so it should give a clean signal
[23:13] <rjharrison> http://spacenear.us/tracker/track.php?vehicle=atlas&time=231244&lat=51.3920&lon=0.5290&alt=-46&heading=&speed=&data=0.0;0;0;25;26;23;43;500;0&pass=XXXX
[23:13] <Laurenceb> need to order that vishay pt100 sensor from farnell and try it
[23:13] <rjharrison> natrium42 this is what I send at the moment
[23:14] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, formula plz :D
[23:14] <rjharrison> will add &callsign=M6JCX
[23:14] <natrium42> rjharrison, ok, add &id=<id>&receiver=<receiver> or something similar
[23:14] <natrium42> yah, that will do
[23:15] <natrium42> could you send the position ids too?
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> natrium42: Ah - the base formulae is there - but you would need to add the curvature of hte earth
[23:15] <rjharrison> I don't know those do I
[23:15] <rjharrison> They get set when you do the insert
[23:15] <rjharrison> or am I missing something
[23:15] <natrium42> oh, i thought that the radio string contained an ID
[23:16] <rjharrison> Oh the sequence
[23:16] <natrium42> yeah
[23:16] <rjharrison> sure
[23:16] <Laurenceb> id suggest just the visual line of sight
[23:16] <Laurenceb> not that hard to calc from lla of each point
[23:16] <Laurenceb> i.e. istener and balloon
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> true
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> SRTM is probably overkill - but would be nice
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[23:23] <rjharrison> natrium42 hum there is a slight problem I only send updates to spacenear.us if they are new points so duplicate lat lng alt are not sent
[23:24] <rjharrison> If you like i can send you a sentance with the sequence and callsign for every clen packet
[23:24] <natrium42> yeah, but i will add code to handle that
[23:24] <rjharrison> clean
[23:25] <rjharrison> Ok so send every sentance to you even duplicate ones
[23:25] <natrium42> hmm, i would rather have the sentences handled on your side
[23:25] <natrium42> then you can adjust format easily
[23:25] <rjharrison> I just set a unique key on table positions;
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[23:26] <rjharrison> natrium42 I post the data as above just for every position and not just new ones
[23:26] <rjharrison> http://spacenear.us/tracker/track.php?vehicle=atlas&time=231244&lat=51.3920&lon=0.5290&alt=-46&heading=&speed=&data=0.0;0;0;25;26;23;43;500;0&pass=XXXX
[23:27] <natrium42> yep
[23:27] <rjharrison> http://spacenear.us/tracker/track.php?vehicle=atlas&time=231244&lat=51.3920&lon=0.5290&alt=-46&heading=&speed=&data=0.0;0;0;25;26;23;43;500;0&callsign=M6JCX&Seq=44&pass=XXXX
[23:27] <rjharrison> http://spacenear.us/tracker/track.php?vehicle=atlas&time=231244&lat=51.3920&lon=0.5290&alt=-46&heading=&speed=&data=0.0;0;0;25;26;23;43;500;0&callsign=2E0RJH&Seq=44&pass=XXXX
[23:27] <rjharrison> like that
[23:28] <rjharrison> NB the callsigns
[23:29] <rjharrison> I can do this quite simply and you will have to parse the callsigns and not plot both positions, but like a say a unique index will prevent that
[23:29] <jcoxon> haha edmoore
[23:30] <rjharrison> jcoxon did i miss something
[23:30] <jcoxon> check your emails
[23:30] <rjharrison> natrium42 ^^^
[23:30] <natrium42> rjharrison, looks great
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[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> oh man the prediction still doesn't work
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> well
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> good night then
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[23:39] <natrium42> http://i.imgur.com/D4hVP.png
[23:39] <natrium42> mockup, how does it look?
[23:40] <natrium42> jcoxon?
[23:40] <natrium42> which parachute looks better?
[23:40] <jcoxon> ooooo
[23:41] <MikeMc68> red and blue
[23:41] <jcoxon> i sort of like the grey one
[23:42] <rjharrison> ping natrium42 the listener will now post to you http://spacenear.us/tracker/track.php?vehicle=atlas&time=231244&lat=51.3920&lon=0.5290&alt=-46&heading=&speed=&data=0.0;0;0;25;26;23;43;500;0&callsign=M6RJH&seq=26&pass=aurora
[23:42] <natrium42> rjharrison, awesome :D
[23:42] <natrium42> http://i.imgur.com/rcvg8.png
[23:42] <natrium42> satellite view
[23:44] <natrium42> the distance between shadow and payload will depend on altitude
[23:45] <jcoxon> natrium42, amazing
[23:46] <natrium42> if anybody is/knows an artist, please let me know if you can get better graphics
[23:46] <natrium42> <--- programmer
[23:47] <rjharrison> natrium42 I really like that png
[23:49] <rjharrison> natrium42, right we need live update of the positions of the listeners next
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[23:49] <rjharrison> Chase cars with optional plots of courses
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[23:49] <rjharrison> The ability to turn off a ploted course would be cool too
[23:50] <rjharrison> But that's a wish list
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[23:51] <natrium42> yeah, not sure how much of that i will accomplish today
[23:51] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[23:51] Action: N900evil hates his dsl.
[23:52] <natrium42> i think it hates you too :P
[23:52] <rjharrison> Right I need to sleep
[23:52] <natrium42> kk, nite
[23:53] <rjharrison> jcoxon I'm happy to coordinate the listening for you on Saturday and keep everything logging fine
[23:53] <rjharrison> natrium42 good luck with the coding
[23:53] <natrium42> ty
[23:53] <jcoxon> rjharrison yes please
[23:54] <rjharrison> right will chat tomorrow
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[23:59] <jcoxon> hey natrium42 i can now tell you the various temp sensors
[00:00] --- Fri Feb 12 2010