highaltitude.log.20100207

[00:00] <SpeedEvil> umm
[00:01] <SpeedEvil> as you've gotta keep the loop stable?
[00:01] <SpeedEvil> so can't tweak it too fine?
[00:01] <SpeedEvil> you mean increases?
[00:01] <SpeedEvil> if you mean decreases, I could see that too :)
[00:01] <Laurenceb_> decrease sorry
[00:02] <Laurenceb_> so you stabilise the temperature and measure power going in
[00:02] <Laurenceb_> its still a bit laggy due to the thickness of the substrate
[00:02] <SpeedEvil> what about mounting it the other way round?
[00:02] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[00:02] <Laurenceb_> http://uk.farnell.com/productimages/farnell/standard/859854104-40.jpg
[00:03] <Laurenceb_> but theres an annoying glass blob
[00:03] <Laurenceb_> AIUI theres just connection pads under there tho
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[00:03] <SpeedEvil> If you're doing self-heating mode - what about just the smallest thermistor you can obtain - not pt100
[00:03] <Laurenceb_> the resistance film in exposed - under about 50um of coating
[00:04] <SpeedEvil> ah
[00:04] <Laurenceb_> yeah maybe, but pt100 thin film is quite fast
[00:04] <Laurenceb_> it should be another order of mag faster if you cool from the front
[00:04] <Laurenceb_> so about 20ms
[00:05] <Laurenceb_> but those bosch pressure sensors are very appealing - one thing I'm not sure about is how accurate the factory cal is after aging and soldering
[00:05] <Laurenceb_> apparently the bias shifts but 100Pa or so
[00:06] <Laurenceb_> its easy to calibrate that out, but the rest of the calibration coefficients might be a fair bit less accurate
[00:06] <SpeedEvil> 0201 thermistors are quite cheap too
[00:06] <SpeedEvil> and teeny
[00:07] <SpeedEvil> I got some silver epoxy for that purpose
[00:07] <SpeedEvil> well - for another strain sensitive thing
[00:07] <Randomskk> yaaay! AVR programs properly on the second attempt at reflowing this board
[00:07] <Randomskk> this time, I laid down the paste for every QFN pad by hand
[00:07] <SpeedEvil> :)
[00:07] <Randomskk> it is a little bit tedious but it worked!
[00:07] <Laurenceb_> how did you do it before?
[00:08] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: laid down a strip across all pads by hand, then used tweezers to scrape away all paste between pads
[00:08] <MikeMc68> has anyone got a link to an easy to make 433MHz Yagi?
[00:08] <Laurenceb_> ah
[00:08] Action: Laurenceb_ made a moxon ant
[00:08] <Randomskk> personally though I think the mistake with the previous version was that I reflowed it too hot and it burnt the AVR
[00:08] <MikeMc68> I want to make one tomorrow but don't want to put a lot of effort into it
[00:08] <MikeMc68> lol
[00:08] <Randomskk> MikeMc68: get about 3m of aluminium rod, some brass rod, something to act as a boom, then just google for a yagi calculator and plug in 434
[00:08] <Randomskk> a bit of drilling and you're set
[00:09] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: it turns out I can reflow with the hob set to LOW and turning it off the moment it starts to melt, and this time the soldermask just got a little melty rather than burning
[00:09] <Randomskk> and appears to be fine after cooling
[00:09] <Randomskk> =success
[00:09] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[00:09] <Randomskk> now I just need to lay paste for every other part on the board
[00:09] <Laurenceb_> I got all the kit to make my reflow oven
[00:09] <Randomskk> I just put down the AVR, crystal and reset pullup
[00:09] <Laurenceb_> apart from the heater...
[00:10] <Randomskk> didn't want to waste it all
[00:10] <Laurenceb_> thinking linear halogen IR lamps
[00:10] <Randomskk> question now is whether the AVR can take being reflowed a second time
[00:10] <Randomskk> any thoughts?
[00:10] <Laurenceb_> probably yes
[00:10] <Randomskk> hope so
[00:10] <Randomskk> if it dies at least I know it worked and can just make a third board with everything at once
[00:13] <SpeedEvil> I'm currently wondering about a very small reflow oven
[00:13] <SpeedEvil> as in ~100mm cube
[00:13] <SpeedEvil> 4*500W halogen bulbs
[00:14] <SpeedEvil> not run at full power probably
[00:14] <Laurenceb_> yeah, thats kind of my idea
[00:14] <Laurenceb_> was even thinking baked bean can
[00:14] <SpeedEvil> Sort of 'reflow oven for a tenner
[00:14] <Laurenceb_> but cant find IR halogens shorter than 100mm
[00:14] <SpeedEvil> I was just meaning visible
[00:14] <Laurenceb_> yeah, the tronic from rapid is about £7
[00:14] <SpeedEvil> at low power
[00:15] <SpeedEvil> There is probablyt some reason this won't work
[00:15] <Laurenceb_> transformer etc for 5v supply, and an attiny with thermocouple the one of those MOC thingies
[00:15] <Laurenceb_> optical may heat up some parts too much
[00:15] <Laurenceb_> I read solder paste absorbs IR quite well
[00:19] <Laurenceb_> attiny84 is what I'm using - havent written any code yet
[00:19] <Laurenceb_> but its has temp sensor and adc with gain stage, so everything you need to directly interface a thermocouple
[00:19] <natrium42> <Randomskk> question now is whether the AVR can take being reflowed a second time <-- yes, i have done it before
[00:19] <Randomskk> excellent
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: I was going to add a thin shell round the PCBs as a reradiator if that turned out to be a concern
[00:22] <Laurenceb_> there are some <100mm IR halogens, but ceramic end caps
[00:22] <Laurenceb_> not spot welded leads
[00:26] <Laurenceb_> hmm no 0201 thermistors on farnell as far as I can see
[00:27] <SpeedEvil> I was looking at digikey
[00:28] <Randomskk> why 0201?
[00:28] <Laurenceb_> fast response
[00:29] <Laurenceb_> think is something like this would take a lot of work to mount well
[00:29] <Laurenceb_> I want to be able to produce quite a few autopilot boards to sell
[00:29] <Laurenceb_> mounting 0201 thermistors on enamled wire would be a pain
[00:30] <Randomskk> seriously.
[00:30] <Randomskk> doing it once would be a horrific pain in the arse
[00:30] <Randomskk> doing it n times and I think I'd lose the will to solder
[00:31] <Laurenceb_> this is one of the reasons I origionally though pt100
[00:31] <Laurenceb_> that and well behaved
[00:31] <Laurenceb_> and the thin film ones are fast enough I think - just expensive
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[00:36] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if flex-pcb would be light enough
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> http://inkjetflex.com/site/pricing-structure/
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> these peeps
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> though it would be nicest if you had an easy means of cutting
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> laser forex
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[00:40] <natrium42> Laurenceb_, today is the day
[00:40] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: contem[plating a 'proper' autopilot with gyro/accel/gps/airspeed/... ?
[00:40] <SpeedEvil> today is the day every day!
[00:40] <natrium42> XD
[00:40] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: yes
[00:40] <natrium42> Laurenceb_, so i remove the LP or the HP filters?
[00:41] <Laurenceb_> with stm32 and airspeed and chipcon etc
[00:41] <Laurenceb_> natrium42: yeah HP
[00:41] <Laurenceb_> we want the low pass
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[00:41] <natrium42> k, on both gyros i assume
[00:41] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk did the mod on the sparkfun gyros board
[00:41] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[00:41] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: bypass the cap?
[00:42] <natrium42> i need to find the right caps, they are not labelled
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[00:42] <Laurenceb_> afraid I'm going to get some sleep
[00:42] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: looked at http://www.st.com/mcu/inchtml-pages-stm32w.html - I've not investigated glosely.
[00:43] <SpeedEvil> eave
[00:43] <Laurenceb_> but yeah bypass the caps
[00:43] <SpeedEvil> wa
[00:43] <Laurenceb_> cya
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[02:06] <natrium42> Randomskk, there?
[02:07] <Randomskk> yup
[02:07] <natrium42> i am trying to find your camera asm code --> http://github.com/randomskk/followingrobot
[02:07] <natrium42> maybe i am blind :S
[02:08] <Randomskk> it is in asm() in C inside http://github.com/randomskk/followingrobot/blob/master/main.c#L463
[02:08] <Randomskk> because that's how I roll(ed)
[02:08] <natrium42> haha, cool thanks
[02:09] <natrium42> how fast do you have to clock this camera?
[02:09] <natrium42> 11.90MHz, eh...
[02:09] <Randomskk> mine was a bit unstable and being clocked pretty slow
[02:09] <Randomskk> theoretically you should clock it fast
[02:10] <natrium42> will be hard with avr 8 bit
[02:11] <natrium42> perhaps a fpga would be more suited
[02:11] <natrium42> i am thinking of a board with many of those tiny cameras
[02:12] <natrium42> shooting pictures to a single microsd
[02:13] <Randomskk> lilalinux on #sparkfun got it working with an FPGA using one of my PCBs for it
[02:13] <Randomskk> they have promised FPGA code on completion of their project
[02:13] <Randomskk> it's definitely doable
[02:13] <natrium42> cool
[02:14] <natrium42> throw in an actel fpga and a dram chip and a few of those cameras
[02:14] <natrium42> it should be possible to make it small + light
[02:15] <natrium42> would be nice as an "engineering" camera for HAB
[02:15] <natrium42> :)
[02:16] <natrium42> good work with that robot, btw
[02:21] <Randomskk> cheers
[02:21] <Randomskk> and yes
[02:21] <Randomskk> I really want to get it working with an fpga and sd card
[02:21] <Randomskk> use an ip core to do video compression on the fly
[02:23] <natrium42> :)
[02:23] <natrium42> do you have any fpga boards?
[02:28] <natrium42> whoa, actel has some cool new low power FPGA
[02:28] <Randomskk> yea
[02:28] <Randomskk> spartan 3e on a breakout
[02:29] <Randomskk> not got it programmed yet, working on that but I don't have much time for it atm
[02:29] <natrium42> ah
[02:32] <natrium42> too bad that $99 igloo fpga board doesn't have dram
[02:32] <SpeedEvil> natrium42: I've also pondered nasty hacks.
[02:32] <SpeedEvil> 4 cams - at 2 bits each
[02:32] <natrium42> it's really necessary to debayes the pictures
[02:32] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, :)
[02:32] <natrium42> then we should make something
[02:33] <SpeedEvil> debayering is only needed if you don't reduce the pic size
[02:33] <SpeedEvil> if you average 4*4 blocks - it's not
[02:33] <natrium42> hmm, true
[02:34] <SpeedEvil> Or you can ignore all but the red pixels - sya
[02:34] <natrium42> but we do need dram for mjpeg
[02:36] <SpeedEvil> generally
[02:36] <SpeedEvil> some cameras do it in hw of course
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[03:53] <juxta> natrium42: you about?
[03:55] <vk5fnet> juxta: nice post
[03:55] Nick change: vk5fnet -> adhoc
[03:56] <adhoc> juxta: i like the graph
[03:56] <juxta> thanks adhoc :)
[03:56] <juxta> I will get a few more up tonight
[03:57] <juxta> I may also launch another balloon on Friday this week
[03:57] <juxta> if you're not busy, I can probably drop around a 70cm radio with SSB if you'd like to track
[03:58] <adhoc> i have to work friday.
[03:58] <adhoc> thanks for the offer =)
[03:58] <juxta> ah, such is life :)
[03:58] <adhoc> indeed
[03:58] <adhoc> i was thinking about tracking from the top of Mt Barker summit
[03:59] <adhoc> and then i thought about the height that the balloon hits
[03:59] <adhoc> and that thought was irrelevant
[03:59] <natrium42> juxta, sup?
[04:00] <juxta> adhoc: being high up is good, then you can get the balloon when it's falling down low
[04:00] <juxta> which is what's really important
[04:00] <juxta> was just going to tell you that I think I've sorted the internet issue natrium42, at the launch site
[04:00] <natrium42> oh, cool
[04:00] <natrium42> did you have any chance to test the app with your cam yet?
[04:01] <adhoc> juxta: yeah, hadn't thought about that
[04:01] <juxta> my 3G modem only supports WCDMA, one of the other guys there had one that supported HSPDA and HSUPA, he got good coverage - I'll get a new one :)
[04:01] <juxta> not yet natrium42, will do so tonight
[04:03] <adhoc> juxta: was thinking about setting up a portable rig for tracking for the ROSA
[04:04] <adhoc> use 900MHz to a fixed internet connection
[04:04] <adhoc> that reminds me, i have some 900MHz yagis to try out
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[09:27] <rjharrison> hi james
[09:27] <rjharrison> Looks like the JS is moving south hence the cold snap coming
[09:28] <jcoxon> morning
[09:28] <jcoxon> yeah i've noticed :-)
[09:28] <rjharrison> ping juxta
[09:28] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/horus.png
[09:29] <jcoxon> interesting humidity peaks
[09:29] Action: jcoxon has made a solar powered lipo charger
[09:30] <rjharrison> Clounds ?
[09:30] <rjharrison> Clouds even
[09:32] <jcoxon> rjharrison, yeah, quite high 6500m
[09:32] <rjharrison> Ohh SP chrger is a good idea esp with occasional TX
[09:33] <jcoxon> you know what - i wasn't even thinking about balloons for this
[09:33] <jcoxon> that is a good point
[09:35] <rjharrison> lol james you make me smile. I can't imagine another purpose. Perhaps the ship!
[09:36] <jcoxon> actually its to power my wireless router
[09:37] <jcoxon> I have a weird issue about electricty consumption at home - the reason i don't have a home server is that i hate for it to be left on
[09:37] <jcoxon> i realised that i just want to host a simple html page which the Peg IV router can host
[09:37] <jcoxon> so i decided to make it solar powered :-p
[09:37] <rjharrison> os that an OCD problem ir is the powere expensive :)
[09:37] <rjharrison> os = is
[09:38] <jcoxon> a bit of both :-p
[09:38] <jcoxon> its a fun project using bits that i have
[09:39] <jcoxon> no purchasing required
[09:39] <rjharrison> Cool
[09:39] <rjharrison> I like the sound of it infact i'm sure I have seen an avr html server
[09:40] <rjharrison> and the no purchasing
[09:40] <jcoxon> currently i have the sparkfun lipo charger + solar power
[09:40] <rjharrison> cool
[09:40] <jcoxon> going to add a sparkfun arduino mini to it
[09:40] <jcoxon> to control it
[09:40] <jcoxon> the router will require 4.5v
[09:40] <jcoxon> so prob need 2x 3.7
[09:40] <rjharrison> Just brought a new radio and a 12v car battery to drive it
[09:41] <jcoxon> so need to make a mechanism to switch between the 2
[09:41] <rjharrison> Yeo
[09:41] <rjharrison> yep
[09:41] <jcoxon> the router won't be on all the time
[09:41] <rjharrison> The car battery is 70AH @ 12V
[09:41] <jcoxon> :-p
[09:41] <rjharrison> I'm thinking that would power a router for like a year
[09:42] <jcoxon> i found that Peg IV router runs at as low as 4.5v and draws 0.30A
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[09:47] <rjharrison> That is low V and A
[09:49] <jcoxon> well i'll see how this goes
[09:50] <rjharrison> Cool but it would be cool on the balloon depending on the size of the SP
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[09:51] <rjharrison_> weird
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[09:56] <Laurenceb_> hi
[10:02] <rjharrison_> hi Laurenceb_
[10:11] <jcoxon> right i need to find 3 relays...
[10:12] <MikeMc68> morning
[10:12] <jcoxon> morning MikeMc68
[10:16] <MikeMc68> braass rods will be OK for a Yagi won't they?
[10:21] <Laurenceb_> brass eye
[10:22] <MikeMc68> brass eye ?
[10:25] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass_Eye
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[10:31] <edmoore> jcoxon: yo
[10:32] <edmoore> had an important thought
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[10:34] <jcoxon> hehe
[10:34] <jcoxon> and...
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[10:41] <edmoore> jcoxon: ping
[10:41] <edmoore> next sat might be an issue
[10:42] <edmoore> it's the day after spring ball, college will still be fairly locked down and everyone will be tired
[10:42] <MikeMc68> Why do some Yagi designs have a flat dipole and others have a folded dipole?
[10:42] <edmoore> where 'tired' s a euphamism for fanstically sleepless and hung over
[10:42] <edmoore> MikeMc68: impedance, i think
[10:43] <MikeMc68> will it matter if i make it a flat dipole?
[10:43] <MikeMc68> it's easier to make
[10:43] <edmoore> i think you have to do much more matching and tuning
[10:43] <edmoore> which might make it more faffiy
[10:43] <MikeMc68> hmm
[10:43] <jcoxon> edmoore, hmmm that is an issue
[10:43] <MikeMc68> ok
[10:44] <jcoxon> will have a think
[10:44] <edmoore> we'll probably be getting in the way of clearup - there are usually big trucks for staging parked infront of the helium store door
[10:44] <jcoxon> yeah
[10:44] <jcoxon> might have to be EARs
[10:44] <jcoxon> thanks for the heads up
[10:45] <jcoxon> right will bbl
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[10:54] <adhoc> juxta: you still about ?
[10:58] <juxta> hey adhoc, I am
[10:58] <juxta> I was just up your way :)
[11:02] <adhoc> heh =)
[11:02] <adhoc> i was wondering about the antenna you guys used ?
[11:02] <adhoc> i notice there was a 21:25 < Hetman> why dat always return 1 ?
[11:03] <adhoc> oops
[11:03] <adhoc> i notice there was a little antenna on a base on top of a car ?
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[11:20] <rjharrison_> ping juxta
[11:20] <rjharrison_> did you get the png
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[11:36] <JimAM> you lot ever built a nixie clock?
[11:36] <JimAM> just wondering, do they normally operate on 240V?
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[12:07] <SpeedEvil> Any voltage
[12:08] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk built one
[12:09] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: stm32w is nice, but 2.4Ghz, and doesnt look like you can get really low level access
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[12:11] <Lunar_Lander> hello people!
[12:11] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: k - not reallyt looked at it
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[12:16] <Lunar_Lander> hi SpeedEvil
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> hji
[12:20] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> afk, sorry
[12:21] <Lunar_Lander> np :)
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> Driving test tomorrow. Not fun.
[12:25] <Lunar_Lander> oh yeah
[12:25] <Lunar_Lander> I know what you mean
[12:26] <Lunar_Lander> the practise part I assume?
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> no
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> yes
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> practical
[12:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[12:26] <Lunar_Lander> that really is a thing where I worried about too
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> major problem is that I've got health problems - post viral fatigue syndrome. So some days I feel absolutely energyless and can't concentrate.
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> And 2/3 tests so far have fallen on those days.
[12:27] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> The other failure was a stupid error.
[12:27] <Lunar_Lander> oh I feel sorry for you
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> And on one of the bad days having to strip and repair the brake caliper on the way there diddn't help
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> well - wheel off and bang on it some as it'd become stiff after a couple of months parked
[12:28] <Lunar_Lander> that happened in the midst of the test?
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> no - on the way there
[12:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[12:30] <Lunar_Lander> we had it this way: The one doing the practical test on that day was driving the other ones, doing their theoretical test, to the place where they do that
[12:30] <Lunar_Lander> and then I drove around with my instructor and we picked up the other guy who also had his test that day
[12:31] <Lunar_Lander> and he was driving and we came to a crossing with a green light
[12:31] <Lunar_Lander> and suddenly a van sped out of the street from the left
[12:31] <Lunar_Lander> that was very close
[12:31] <Lunar_Lander> I think that was also why I failed that day, because of the shock
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[12:32] <Lunar_Lander> I mean I was scared over the whole time
[12:33] <Lunar_Lander> and then, about two minutes before the end I drove into a roundabout without checking for other cars
[12:33] <Lunar_Lander> instructor braked, I had failed
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> Much of it is the presence of the instructor. There are lots of problems with the current test.
[12:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[12:34] Action: SpeedEvil is annoyed that even if he passes tomorrow - won't get driving license for 6 weeks.
[12:36] <Lunar_Lander> why is that?
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> paper license
[12:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> For various reasons I got my provisional licence before photocards, so ...
[12:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[12:37] <Lunar_Lander> in Germany it is that way that you have to glue a photo on a certain spot when you enroll in driving school
[12:38] <Lunar_Lander> and during the training time the license is made and the examiner has the license with him on the test
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> logical.
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> I mean - the fraction of people that don't pass at some time is going to be small
[12:39] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[12:40] <Lunar_Lander> only thing he did was taking out his pen, writing "Sep. 4, 2008" onto the license and then he gave it to me
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> Don't know how hard the test is in germany - in the UK the average passrate is 50%
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> US gets it a lot easier
[12:41] <Lunar_Lander> well, what they want is a 45 drive through city, country and highway
[12:41] <Lunar_Lander> and they request two "Basic Tasks"
[12:42] <Lunar_Lander> they include emergency braking, several kinds of parking and also turning around at appropiate places
[12:42] <Lunar_Lander> e.g. driving onto a parking lot
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> sounds similar.
[12:42] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: so I found the problem with my AVR
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: aliens?
[12:42] <Randomskk> the pins for ICSP are also being used to drive the transistor, through 1k base resistors
[12:43] <Randomskk> turns out the 1k was allowing too much current through such that ICSP did not work at all
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> ah
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:43] <Randomskk> swapping them out for 10k, the next value I had on hand, makes it work
[12:43] <Randomskk> not yet sure if 10k is small enough for the transistors/mosfets to still work effectively
[12:43] <Randomskk> but it looks like even just 2k2 would work sufficiently
[12:44] <Randomskk> turns out the board I cooked for too long works when I swapped out the resistors too
[12:44] <Randomskk> so at any rate I now have a working board, will get it driving an actual motor then order the next revision with all the fixes this board needs and get a stencil made up
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> What's the aim again?
[12:45] <Randomskk> brushless motor controller
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> ah.
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> Because there are none of those on the market.
[12:45] <Randomskk> none exactly suitable, and also because my project was to make a quadcopter from the ground up, as far as electronics were concerned
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> fair enough.
[12:46] <Randomskk> the ones used for RC planes require a PWM input and have a shitty response/max update rate
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> How did you purify the silicon - zone refining?
[12:46] <Randomskk> the ones used otherwise tend to be massive and with more power capacity than needed
[12:46] <Randomskk> yea, the IC foundry up in west cambridge has everything I need
[12:46] <Randomskk> making my own clone of the AVR core was a bit tricky but not too bad
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> gyro/... sensors too I assume?
[12:47] <Randomskk> placing those 45nm transistors by hand is a bit tricky
[12:47] <Laurenceb_> lmao
[12:47] <Randomskk> but really, some good tweezers and some decent lighting plus a steady hand and an eye loupe is all you need
[12:47] <Laurenceb_> UV lighting obviously
[12:48] <Randomskk> I can't see UV lighting, doesn't help much with lining things up
[12:48] <Laurenceb_> wavelenght and all that
[12:48] <Lunar_Lander> it is good that you use brushless Randomskk
[12:48] <Randomskk> so okay, I am making everything from normal farnell-bought components up rather than using preassembled modules for motor control, happy SpeedEvil? :P
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> http://uk.farnell.com/productimages/farnell/thumbnail/128967206-40.jpg
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> does that look like it has resistive trace going around the sides?
[12:49] <Randomskk> or to put it another way I am making my own brushless motor controller with an AVR and some FETs etc, and my own IMU with some gyros and accels etc, and an autopilot on that
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> I mean this one obviously doesnt - http://uk.farnell.com/productimages/farnell/thumbnail/126693207-40.jpg
[12:50] <Randomskk> brb anyway
[12:50] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: hard to say foir sure, datasheet no use?
[12:50] <Laurenceb_> nah datasheet is useless
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: full autopilot - or piloted?
[12:50] <Laurenceb_> I'm pondering embedding one in foam with just the face exposed to the airflow
[12:51] <Laurenceb_> that was is the resistive element is like 50um from the exposed face, response time should be crazy fast
[12:51] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: piloted to start with but I plan to get full gps-based autopilot at least
[12:51] <Laurenceb_> at least it might be...
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: won't that cause it to stagnate againt the foam?
[12:51] <Laurenceb_> exactly
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> so you say run it at a constant 80C
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> I mean - the airflow
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> then almost all the sensor stays at 80C
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> so you get disrupted flow
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> and just the 50um thick coating is cooled
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> the aerodynamics is another matter entirely
[12:53] <Laurenceb_> I'm just saying in theory if you could embed it in foam and just cool the resistive face with the airstream
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> or do you mean just a teeny block glued to the back
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> ah
[12:53] <Laurenceb_> and covering the pads
[12:53] <Laurenceb_> or more clever - a neat pcb design with glued on foam blocks
[12:55] <Laurenceb_> - routed pcb
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> have a radiosonde that does that
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> for a crystal oven
[12:56] <Laurenceb_> bbl
[13:01] <Lunar_Lander> a crystal oven SpeedEvil?
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:05] <Lunar_Lander> why is that?
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> to control the temperature of the crystal to prevent drift as it cools to ~-55
[13:06] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[13:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:07] <Lunar_Lander> that sounds good
[13:13] <MikeMc68> back to my question....
[13:13] <MikeMc68> Can I use brass rods for a Yagi rather than aluminium ?
[13:13] <Randomskk> yes
[13:14] <MikeMc68> ty
[13:14] <Lunar_Lander> I'd say the only difference in that is resistance
[13:14] <Lunar_Lander> but it would work
[13:17] <Randomskk> it works fine and brass is easier to solder to, but anodised ally is more weather resistant generally
[13:17] <juxta> rjharrison_: yup I got the pic, thanks for that :)
[13:17] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[13:17] <juxta> adhoc: are you still about?
[13:17] <juxta> we just used 1/4 waves on the cars
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[13:19] <MikeMc68> i don't intend on keeping it permanently outside
[13:21] <juxta> MikeMc68: even coathangers work :D
[13:21] <MikeMc68> cool
[13:21] <MikeMc68> i'll go to B&Q and buy some brass rods
[13:23] <Lunar_Lander> MikeMc68 I still would like to know where to get water bears
[13:23] <MikeMc68> they do them in 4, 6 & 8 mm diameters
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> or microbore pipe
[13:23] <Randomskk> MikeMc68: any reason for brass instead of ally for the non-driven members?
[13:23] <MikeMc68> pretty much any patch of water
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> copper
[13:23] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[13:23] <MikeMc68> easier to solder to
[13:24] <Randomskk> but you are only soldering to the driven element
[13:24] <Lunar_Lander> then I'd need to ask the zoology department for a microscope :P
[13:24] <Randomskk> the rest just stick into the boom
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> bamboo with ordinary mains cable works
[13:24] <Randomskk> unless you plan to solder them /to/ the boom
[13:24] <MikeMc68> true
[13:24] <MikeMc68> I was just going to use a length of wooden downling for the boom
[13:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[14:23] <juxta> what was for lunch?
[14:23] <juxta> haha.. whoops
[14:24] <Hiena> Actually some pancake, which gave me some idea to test in the windtube.
[14:25] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[14:26] <Lunar_Lander> see you later people
[14:33] <jcoxon> yay got my wr850g router running off 2 3.7v lipos in series
[14:37] <Hiena> Ehem.
[14:37] <Hiena> Trying new telemetry?
[14:38] <jcoxon> nah, want to make a solarpowered wifi router
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[15:12] <jonsowman> ed
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[15:12] <jonsowman> hi edmoore
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[15:34] <MikeMc68> Well I now have all of the bits to build a Yagi
[15:35] <MikeMc68> 8 x directors plus DE and Reflector
[15:35] <MikeMc68> it will be 1.5 mtrs long
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[16:09] <Lunar_Lander> hello again
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[16:15] Nick change: bittwist -> ElJesus
[16:16] Nick change: ElJesus -> bittwist
[16:17] <rjharrison_> quick questin is it bad to drive 4 ohm speaker from radio
[16:17] <rjharrison_> it says should be capable of handling 2 ohms
[16:18] <Lunar_Lander> hmm
[16:18] <sbasuita> wouldn't it just be quieter?
[16:18] <Lunar_Lander> the radio is able to handle 2 Ohms?
[16:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:18] <Lunar_Lander> what sbasuita said
[16:19] <rjharrison_> yep that's what i think too
[16:19] <sbasuita> that's just v=ir, fix voltage, increase resistance so current must decrease
[16:19] <sbasuita> *shrug*
[16:19] <sbasuita> ; P
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[16:20] <edmoore> rjharrison_: it'll be fine, just quieter as has been said.
[16:22] <edmoore> but not for the reason that has been said :)
[16:22] <sbasuita> ; (
[16:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:24] <Lunar_Lander> is it important that the speaker is loud?
[16:24] <edmoore> sbasuita: it's not far off. You visualise the amp as a current source and a resistance (called the Thevenin equivalent).
[16:25] <edmoore> and you can see that to get the maximum power through the load (modelled as a resistor) it needs to be the same impedance as the thevenin source resistance
[16:25] Action: DanielRichman sees
[16:26] <jonsowman> hi edmoore
[16:26] <edmoore> hi jonsowman
[16:27] <Lunar_Lander> hi edmoore and jonsowman
[16:27] <edmoore> i missed you yesterday, sorry
[16:27] <jonsowman> no problems, did you get my text?
[16:27] <edmoore> yes. was on the M11 when I got it :)
[16:27] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[16:27] <jonsowman> haha oh dear
[16:28] <jonsowman> ah well. did you try and ring? not that i have any signal in Hall
[16:28] <Lunar_Lander> isn't driving and phoning also forbidden in the UK?
[16:28] <edmoore> i did try and ring
[16:28] <edmoore> yes
[16:28] <edmoore> and texted you
[16:28] <jonsowman> how interesting, never got that
[16:28] <jonsowman> ah well, not to worry
[16:29] <Lunar_Lander> at least better what happened to me an hour ago
[16:29] <edmoore> i text at about 5 saying are you around, was on the road by 6
[16:29] <jonsowman> weird
[16:29] <jonsowman> whats going on here
[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> well I was at the chinese restaurant by bike and when I came out I couldn't find the keys for the lock
[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> and I went back inside and looked everywhere
[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> fortunately I finally found it in the pocket of my jacket
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> can you imagine that?
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[16:42] Action: SpeedEvil just spent 4 hours looking for my passport.
[16:43] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[16:46] <SpeedEvil> Which I diddn't see - it was in plain sight - as there was a similar coloured and sized booklet on top of it that I looked at - and saw it wasn't the passport.
[16:48] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:48] <Lunar_Lander> I know that effect too
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[17:00] <MikeMc68> Anyone know a way to measure UV cheaply ?
[17:01] <Lunar_Lander> hmm
[17:01] <Lunar_Lander> there are sensors for UV-A and UV-B
[17:01] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> MikeMc68: diode with some sensitivity to UV - several of - with filters in front
[17:01] <akawaka> cheap cameras are usually sensitive to UV
[17:02] <MikeMc68> no that's IR
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> also UV
[17:02] <MikeMc68> The UV sensitivity of a CDD is limited
[17:02] <MikeMc68> CCD
[17:03] <SpeedEvil> very
[17:03] <SpeedEvil> but not zero
[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> MikeMc68: http://tinyurl.com/uvsensor
[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> try that
[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[17:03] <MikeMc68> pretty difficult to rig a CCD up to a microcontroller though
[17:03] <MikeMc68> that URL doesn't work
[17:03] <SpeedEvil> an imaging one, yes
[17:04] <Lunar_Lander> hmm
[17:04] <Lunar_Lander> try www.conrad.com
[17:04] <Lunar_Lander> click on the UK flag
[17:04] <Lunar_Lander> and enter "UV Sensor" into the search on the left
[17:05] <MikeMc68> yeah that's the kind of thing
[17:05] <MikeMc68> expensive though
[17:05] <MikeMc68> thanks
[17:08] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome
[17:14] <Lunar_Lander> is this connected to the water bear experiment?
[17:19] <Hiena> MikeMc68, go for the mobile cameras. Most running 8-16 wire interfce. Some has a built in jpeg compression.
[17:19] <Hiena> I rigged up Samsung cameras as BW IR replacement.
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[17:24] <Hiena> Also the contractor with that setup run a wide spectrum shots, using several camera different filters. At the visible range and the IR range the cameras run well (the IR range limited by the lense), at the UV range that was slightly suspressed.
[17:26] <Hiena> Kind of funny when you mix up the IR and the UV shots. You could identify the biological "targets" and filter out the heat non living sources
[17:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> Hyperspectral images are interesting
[17:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah truw
[17:32] <Lunar_Lander> *true
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[19:05] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:07] <blomlet> Hi James
[19:07] <sbasuita> hallo
[19:07] <blomlet> Did you kickoff any launches in the last 2 weekends?
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
[19:12] <jcoxon> hey
[19:13] <jcoxon> blomlet, scrubbed the planned launch of BH4 this weekend due to ridiclously strong winds
[19:13] <jcoxon> going to try this next weekend
[19:13] <blomlet> cool
[19:13] <blomlet> is this the one with the ballast?
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon somebody else from the UK said it was a rainy day today?
[19:14] <jcoxon> blomlet, yeah
[19:14] <russss> it wasn't that rainy here.
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[19:14] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, there was a bit of rain in south london
[19:15] <jcoxon> i think the rain was up north
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> ah I see
[19:15] <jcoxon> blomlet, hopefully it'll work this time :-p
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> is there already some wind forecst for next week?
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[19:16] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, there are though not very accurate
[19:16] <jcoxon> check out : http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/
[19:16] <jcoxon> this is for a standard flight, launched from Cambridge
[19:17] <jcoxon> BH4 will be a float flight which is a little different but that site gives a general idea of how it'll fly
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> hmm quite a trip
[19:23] <jcoxon> if you want to run your own custom forecasts see here: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/predict/index.php
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> UK-France-UK-North Sea :P
[19:23] <jcoxon> oh thats not a flight path
[19:23] <jcoxon> those are landing sites at different times
[19:23] <jcoxon> place your mouse over them and it'll tell you when
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> and these are the launch times?
[19:24] <jcoxon> yes
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[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> 199 miles of flight
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> If I'd fly on Feb. 10
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[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> thanks jcoxon this is a great tool
[19:44] <jcoxon> thank the cusf guys - they made it
[19:44] <jcoxon> :-)
[19:44] <jcoxon> right supper time will bbl
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[19:53] <Hiena> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F70tClnEKQI
[19:58] <MikeMc68> evening
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:03] <MikeMc68> very impressive
[20:04] <MikeMc68> though an accident just waiting to happen
[20:08] <russss> his web site is great. http://www.franklinairshow.com/
[20:09] <MikeMc68> Is this pressure sensor any good for HAB? - http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8128
[20:09] <MikeMc68> Does the pressure not get lower than it's lowest setting?
[20:10] <russss> oh wow, that looks nifty
[20:11] <MikeMc68> any good though?
[20:11] <russss> IIRC the pressure at 100,000ft is about 10mbar, which is quite a bit less than 30kPa
[20:11] <MikeMc68> thought so
[20:11] <russss> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_pressure#Altitude_atmospheric_pressure_variation
[20:12] <russss> wow it's tiny too http://static.sparkfun.com/images/products/08128-04-L.jpg
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:13] <MikeMc68> yeah
[20:13] <MikeMc68> not a lot of good for HAB though if it cuts out after its lowest pressure range
[20:13] <russss> yeah
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> the best would be: This size + better measuring range
[20:16] <natrium42> edmoore, didn't you huys test that sensor?
[20:16] <natrium42> *guys
[20:18] <natrium42> this one is cheaper, but less precise --> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9603
[20:18] <natrium42> smaller too
[20:19] <MikeMc68> which one did you use Alex ?
[20:20] <natrium42> Honeywell ASDX015A24R
[20:20] <natrium42> 0-15 psi
[20:22] <MikeMc68> ahh yes Farnell sell those
[20:22] <natrium42> though befare that it's 5V
[20:22] <natrium42> *beware even
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> farnell.co.uk ?
[20:22] <natrium42> won't work at 3.3V
[20:22] <MikeMc68> yeah
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[20:26] <MikeMc68> Farnell also has a load of the Motorola MPX range of sensors which look cheaper
[20:27] <MikeMc68> they have a few that will go down to 0psi and -40 degrees C
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:35] Nick change: DanielRichman -> amarumo
[20:35] Nick change: amarumo -> DanielRichman
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[20:55] <jcoxon> oooo 40 people
[20:56] <jcoxon> 1 bot, no doubles
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[20:57] <jcoxon> evening natrium42
[20:57] <jcoxon> made any progress with the radio?
[20:57] <natrium42> hi james
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[20:58] <natrium42> nope, this weekend i need to finish my turntable stuff
[20:58] <natrium42> :S
[20:58] <natrium42> jcoxon, what antenna do you recommend?
[20:59] <jcoxon> just a 1/4 wave ground plane
[20:59] <jcoxon> thats what we've always used
[20:59] <jcoxon> just stripped a bit of coax, leaving the centre as the 1/4 wave, then solder 4 radial wires onto the outside mesh
[21:00] <natrium42> ah, gotcha
[21:00] <natrium42> the ground plane should be as large as possible?
[21:00] <jcoxon> i have 4 wires, each 1/4 wave long
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[21:01] <natrium42> k
[21:01] <natrium42> i also need to build a yagi
[21:01] <jcoxon> so you planning a test flight then
[21:01] <natrium42> yes
[21:01] <jcoxon> flight 'puter, spot, radio, gps?
[21:01] <jcoxon> okay cool
[21:02] <natrium42> or do you use a whip antenna for tracking while driving?
[21:03] <jcoxon> yeah, the whip will cover you nearly all teh way - the yagi comes in useful when its beginning to pop over the horizon or about to land
[21:04] <natrium42> hmm, i could test HF if steve is done with it
[21:04] <natrium42> seems like a good idea to test it beforehand
[21:05] <jcoxon> yeah but you'd need a licence :-p
[21:05] <jcoxon> natrium42, its easy apparently - don't even need to do practicals - just mcqs
[21:05] <natrium42> i think i will just schedule a test
[21:06] <jcoxon> apparently also the question bank is avaliable
[21:06] <jcoxon> so in theory you can do all the questions in advnace
[21:06] <jcoxon> :-p
[21:06] <natrium42> :)
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> hello
[21:06] <natrium42> hello laurence
[21:07] <jcoxon> but yes i think a radio could be made ready - last time i heard he was making up 3 :-p
[21:07] <natrium42> so i modified the imu
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> any luck with imu?
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> ah cool
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> any chance of posting data on wiki
[21:07] <natrium42> what data do you want?
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> just of it changing roll pitch yaw a bit
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> not of it moving about, and pref with little vibration
[21:07] <natrium42> also, it runs some test program already
[21:07] <natrium42> or should i get the arhs stuff?
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> just for testing IMU code type stuff
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> just raw data would be cool
[21:08] <natrium42> k
[21:08] <natrium42> all the software is arduino :(
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> - the its possible to play about in matlab
[21:10] <Hiena> Hmmm...Anyboby experienced rocket designer? Seems, I misscalculated the lifting force of the 120 cm long 12mm diameter and 8 atm filled tube. It flown 15 meter with 1.4kg load.
[21:11] <natrium42> Laurenceb_, i could put it on a turntable
[21:11] <natrium42> but there might be some vibration
[21:13] <natrium42> jcoxon, did you ever try tracking with yagi attached to top of car? or is this unecessary?
[21:13] <rjharrison_> unecessary
[21:14] <natrium42> coolz
[21:14] <natrium42> rjharrison_, i saw you use a slim jim antenna on your paylod, how did that work out?
[21:14] <rjharrison_> Shit I lost the payload
[21:14] <natrium42> ah
[21:15] <rjharrison_> I think it was due to the SJ wraping around the 1/4 wave and pulling the pcb through the payload foam :)
[21:15] <jcoxon> natrium42, BH3 have 1/4wave GP
[21:15] <jcoxon> and that went far far away :-p
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[21:16] <rjharrison_> You can do about 300 + km on 70cm 1/4 wave
[21:16] <natrium42> jcoxon, good point
[21:16] <natrium42> so no matching required for 1/4 wave?
[21:17] <rjharrison_> I only use 2 GP !4 as according to ARIEL (SP?) the other two were for marketing
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[21:18] <jcoxon> fair enough
[21:19] <jcoxon> no need for matching
[21:19] <edmoore> natrium42: yes we have tested it
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> natrium42: I wasnt thinking those levels
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> just held steady should be fine
[21:20] <natrium42> k
[21:20] <natrium42> edmoore, usable then?
[21:20] <edmoore> yep
[21:20] <edmoore> still seems to work beneath 30kpa
[21:22] <natrium42> cool
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[21:36] <rjharrison_> Hi RocketBoy
[21:37] <RocketBoy> yo
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy!
[21:39] <RocketBoy> yo
[21:39] <RocketBoy> views on scopes: my faithfull old philips osciloscope has packed up - so its time to buy a new one - shall I get another analoge CRT scope - or a digital LCD scope?
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> hmmm
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> I think LCD is better and doesn't need so much power
[21:42] <RocketBoy> I have never used a LCD scope (just LCD Logic analyzers) - just wondering if a LCD scope gives as much feel of the waveform
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[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> I'd say the screen gives a pretty good definition
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> or fix it
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> how has it packed up?
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> It's nothing to do with hte screen.
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> With a traduitional analog scope - the position on the y axis is simply a function of the input voltage - with high frequency rolloff and some phase artifacts maybe.
[21:48] <RocketBoy> sort of a toss up between http://www.rapidonline.com/sku/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Test-Equipment/Oscilloscopes/7100-100MHz-2-channel-Oscilloscope/36664/85-2208
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> With a digital scope - sampling at 60MHz - and a 10MHz input waveform - the scope will display a nice smooth line
[21:48] <RocketBoy> or the 100m version of this http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Test-Equipment/Oscilloscopes/PDS-Series-2-channel-colour-oscilloscopes/80709
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> When it's in fact completely inventing this line from 6 points.
[21:48] <MikeMc68> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/dso-nano-preorder-p-611.html?cPath=11
[21:49] <RocketBoy> The PSU has gone on the old one
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> Unless you know in detail how it's going this, htis can be very, very confusing
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> fix it
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> PSUs are easy
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> Especially if you don't care to keep it original design
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> Much oif the time it may just be dead caps
[21:50] <RocketBoy> well its old and has a couple of other problems too - the middle timebases seem to stop working after a few mins
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> that may be PSU related too
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> I have the 60M version of the abover
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> it's usable.
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> The screen isn't great.
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[22:00] <N900evil> night all!
[22:03] <MikeMc68> cya
[22:07] Nick change: RocketBoy -> RocketBoy|Away
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[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[22:36] <jcoxon> ping RocketBoy|Away
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> that dso nano thing is nice
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> needs more bandwidth
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> natrium42: any luck?
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[22:48] <MikeMc68> i need to find a new IRc client
[22:49] <N900evil> xchat!
[22:50] Action: Laurenceb_ uses xchat too
[22:50] <N900evil> been playing with keymaps
[22:50] <N900evil> andc finding I get 30wpm on this
[22:51] <N900evil> Should be faster with a bit of practice.
[22:51] <MikeMc68> i'll give it a go
[22:52] <MikeMc68> ahh
[22:52] <MikeMc68> Will have to get X-Chat Aqua
[22:53] <MikeMc68> FUCK !!
[22:53] <MikeMc68> I have just realised I won't be around to track James launch next weekend
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[22:55] <MikeMc68_> trying out xchat
[22:56] <jcoxon> hey MikeMc68
[22:56] <jcoxon> shame you aren;t around
[22:56] <MikeMc68_> Hi James
[22:56] <jcoxon> though its not confirmed yet
[22:56] <jcoxon> still too early to tell
[22:56] <MikeMc68_> Yeah I have just been reminded that I am driving up North Saturday
[22:56] <MikeMc68_> relatives birthday party saturday night
[22:56] <jcoxon> oh well
[22:56] <jcoxon> follow online :-p
[22:57] <MikeMc68_> yeah I will do when I can
[23:01] <natrium42> <MikeMc68> Will have to get X-Chat Aqua <-- don't, it's very outdated
[23:02] <natrium42> colloquy is better for mac... or you can use xchat for X...
[23:02] <MikeMc68_> I am using colluqay - that is what I wish to chance
[23:02] <MikeMc68_> change
[23:03] <natrium42> xchat aqua is full of security bugs
[23:03] <natrium42> i don't recommend it
[23:05] <natrium42> you can install the recent xchat from macports
[23:05] <natrium42> http://www.macports.org/ports.php?by=name&substr=xchat
[23:05] <natrium42> but it uses GTK2, so interface will not be as nice as colloquy
[23:07] <natrium42> jcoxon, how does next weekend look for BH4?
[23:09] Nick change: RocketBoy|Away -> RocketBoy
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> http://mugtug.com/sketchpad/ <- nice
[23:10] <jcoxon> natrium42, ummm france bound
[23:10] <jcoxon> ping RocketBoy
[23:10] <MikeMc68> cheers
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[23:11] <jcoxon> natrium42, just sorting out 'permission' to enter french airspace
[23:11] <jcoxon> if i get that then pretty much certain i'll launch
[23:12] <natrium42> oh
[23:12] <natrium42> "we got an unidentified british object, scramble the mirages!"
[23:12] <jcoxon> oh apparently it'll be easy
[23:12] <jcoxon> just need a NOTAM
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[23:17] <Laurenceb_> natrium42: any luck?
[23:17] <natrium42> don't have time to work on it today, sorry
[23:18] <natrium42> maybe late in the night :D
[23:18] <natrium42> might be watching the shuttle launch
[23:18] <natrium42> it's at 4am for me
[23:20] <Laurenceb_> np
[23:20] <natrium42> jcoxon, should i make 8 element yagi or fewer/more?
[23:21] <jcoxon> natrium42, i don't really know
[23:21] <jcoxon> never made a yagi
[23:22] <natrium42> k
[23:22] <natrium42> 8 seems to be popular
[23:23] <jcoxon> got to stop doing a forecast a week in advance :-p
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> http://www-g.eng.cam.ac.uk/whittle/current-research/hph/hot-film/hot-film.html
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> ^ interesting
[23:32] <jcoxon> night all
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[23:45] <MikeMc68> natrium I am making a Yagi
[23:45] <natrium42> cool
[23:45] <MikeMc68> 8 directors, 1 DE and 1 Reflector
[23:46] Action: natrium42 needs to get some materials for his
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[00:00] --- Mon Feb 8 2010