highaltitude.log.20100206

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[00:51] <adhoc> hi juxta
[01:09] <juxta> hey adhoc
[02:17] <natrium42> ohi
[02:17] <natrium42> pix plz
[02:20] <Endeavour> OMG.
[02:20] <Endeavour> It be natrium42
[02:20] Action: natrium42 hides
[02:21] Action: Endeavour sends the Russians after the Canadenski
[02:21] <natrium42> huhu, i am russian
[02:21] <natrium42> :P
[02:21] <Endeavour> Blast!
[02:21] Action: Endeavour sends the Americans after the Russian Canadenski
[02:22] <Endeavour> Speak Russian?
[02:22] <natrium42> oh noes
[02:22] <natrium42> yes
[02:22] <Endeavour> Born in Russia?
[02:22] <natrium42> yes, sir
[02:22] <natrium42> moscow
[02:22] <Endeavour> Cool.
[02:22] <Endeavour> What took you to Canada?
[02:22] <natrium42> my parents :)
[02:23] <Endeavour> And I assume them, their jobs?
[02:23] <natrium42> kinda
[02:23] <Endeavour> Do you still have contacts in Russia?
[02:23] <natrium42> very few
[02:23] <Endeavour> I'm always interested in getting a hold of cheap Cold War era hardware.
[02:23] <natrium42> isn't there a lot of that on ebay?
[02:24] <Endeavour> Always wanted a T90 tank...
[02:24] <Endeavour> ;)
[02:24] <natrium42> haha, wow
[02:24] <natrium42> shipping could be expensive
[02:24] <Endeavour> Could be, but it's a tank.
[02:24] <natrium42> badonkadonk not good enough?
[02:24] <natrium42> amazon has it for only $20k
[02:24] <Endeavour> Nope, nothing less than a T90 for me.
[02:25] <natrium42> give a man a tank...
[02:25] <juxta> hey natrium42
[02:25] <Endeavour> I'll settle for an A1 Abrams, though.
[02:25] <juxta> going throgh pics etc now
[02:25] <natrium42> juxta, good job with the launch
[02:25] <juxta> unfortunatley my lens filters got iced up
[02:25] <juxta> so pics were not great :'(
[02:25] <juxta> but I'm processing all the tracks etc
[02:25] <juxta> we recovered it no worries
[02:26] <natrium42> yeah, tracking was great
[02:26] <natrium42> hmm, may i ask you about the weird tracks after you retrieved the payload?
[02:26] <natrium42> it looked like somebody went for a spin on the 4wd :P
[02:26] <juxta> haha
[02:27] <juxta> yeahhh we toook the 4wd out into the paddock to get it
[02:27] <juxta> and then the payload stayed on for ages
[02:27] <natrium42> my camera screwed up too in my first launch
[02:27] <juxta> natrium42: i hit the ground quite hard
[02:27] <natrium42> stopped working at below 10km iirc
[02:27] <natrium42> yeah, i saw from the rates
[02:28] <natrium42> it decelerated to about 40km/h
[02:28] <natrium42> but then it sped up again
[02:28] <juxta> yeah
[02:28] <Endeavour> That's a pretty hard hit.
[02:28] <natrium42> i guess not a clean burst?
[02:28] <juxta> nah, the chuts and radar reflector got tangled in the balloon
[02:28] <juxta> chute
[02:29] <natrium42> did you have one of those swivels inbetween?
[02:29] <juxta> i had the swivel in between the balloon and cutdown
[02:29] <natrium42> ah
[02:29] <juxta> I had the cutdown prgrammed to cut the balloon away once it had fallen more than 1000m
[02:29] <juxta> which it tried to do
[02:30] <juxta> but I think by that stage the balloon had already got tangled around the chute, cutdown & reflector
[02:30] <natrium42> hehe, i think you need to cut it of as soon as it bursts, but it's not easy to detect
[02:30] <juxta> yeah
[02:30] <juxta> or cut it straight away
[02:30] <juxta> sorry
[02:30] <juxta> i mean before
[02:30] <natrium42> yah
[02:31] <natrium42> things to experiment with for next launches :D
[02:31] <juxta> natrium42: will put a few pics here for you:
[02:31] <juxta> www.bogaurd.net/launch
[02:31] <natrium42> k, cool
[02:32] <juxta> we had some sort of weird GPS fart before we launched
[02:32] <juxta> we had about 10 modules on the ground all up, and they all randomly started losing lock
[02:32] <juxta> and taking 20 minutes to regain it
[02:32] <natrium42> is this with the lassen iq?
[02:32] <juxta> the lassen IQ, but a bunch of other stuff too
[02:32] <juxta> some SIRF chipsets in USB GPS modules too
[02:33] <natrium42> it's not very sensitive unfortunately
[02:33] <juxta> yeah
[02:33] <natrium42> did you have things around the patch antenna?
[02:33] <natrium42> that might have detuned it
[02:33] <natrium42> especially small patches are easy to detune
[02:33] <juxta> yeah, i thought that might have been influencing it, there were wires and caps near it
[02:34] <juxta> natrium42: just put a pic in that dir of the wires etc
[02:34] <juxta> pic 104
[02:34] <juxta> i re-routed them a bit
[02:34] <natrium42> yeah, that looks like an easily detunable patch, so small..
[02:35] <natrium42> best to keep wires away from it
[02:35] <juxta> yeah - is there anything better I could use?
[02:35] <natrium42> an external antenna
[02:35] <natrium42> if your board has a connector
[02:35] <juxta> yeah
[02:36] <juxta> i could just connect it straight to the lassen
[02:36] <juxta> just need a suitable antenna
[02:36] <natrium42> this antenna should be fine though if you experiment with it a bit
[02:37] <juxta> well
[02:37] <juxta> I want to get away from the arduino
[02:37] Action: natrium42 uses helix antennas
[02:37] <juxta> I want to build a board with everything on it
[02:37] <juxta> I wonder if rjharrison will send me his eagle files :)
[02:37] <natrium42> :)
[02:38] <natrium42> i bet he will
[02:39] <juxta> I'd add the SD card logging
[02:39] <juxta> and have a go with that pressure sensor you used
[02:40] <natrium42> i think ed had good results with that sparkfun sensor too
[02:40] <natrium42> the circular digital one
[02:40] <natrium42> but it may be more expensive
[02:40] <juxta> the ranges is less though
[02:41] <juxta> range*
[02:41] <juxta> mine bottomed out at 115hPa, that sparkfun one is maybe 300hPa I think
[02:41] <natrium42> yes, but supposedly it does work below specified minimum
[02:41] <juxta> ah
[02:41] <juxta> I see
[02:41] <natrium42> best to ask ed about it
[02:41] <juxta> will do
[02:42] <natrium42> for the honeywell they say 0-15
[02:42] <natrium42> but i am not really sure if it's really 0.00000
[02:42] <natrium42> :)
[02:42] <juxta> natrium42: I just emailed you some data from it
[02:42] <natrium42> k, cool
[02:42] <juxta> and a graph of the alt/pressure alt
[02:43] <natrium42> nice, pressure altitude worked welll until it cut out
[02:45] <juxta> sure did :D
[02:58] <natrium42> juxta, i am going to use this gps module the next launch --> http://inventeksys.accountsupport.com/store/ISM300F2-C5-V0004.html
[03:01] <natrium42> cheaper than u-blox
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[03:32] <juxta> that looks good natrium42
[03:32] <juxta> what about this?
[03:32] <juxta> http://www.esawdust.com/products/egps/egps-fsa03-bkob.html
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[03:49] <natrium42> looks good too
[03:49] <natrium42> helix antenna ftw
[03:55] <juxta> yeah
[03:55] <juxta> plus it's cheap
[03:56] <juxta> hey natrium42, what software did you use for your graphs on the halo2 page?
[03:57] <natrium42> excel 2007
[03:57] <juxta> ah
[03:58] <juxta> they're rather more appealing than the default graphs pumped out by my older version
[03:58] <natrium42> :)
[03:59] <juxta> natrium42: what's your opinion on the misting of my lens fitlers btw?
[03:59] <juxta> best to go without them?
[04:00] <juxta> rob suggested it'd be worth flushing the payload with He next time
[04:00] <natrium42> hmm, might help
[04:00] <natrium42> i never tried filters :S
[04:00] <natrium42> rob did though
[04:00] <juxta> hmm
[04:01] <juxta> I think next time I wont bother
[04:01] <juxta> did you do anything to stop your lens glass from misting up?
[04:02] <natrium42> maybe if you had more ventilation
[04:02] <natrium42> nope
[04:02] <juxta> yeah - my payload was very well sealed up
[04:02] <juxta> hence the warm internal temps I guess
[04:02] <natrium42> you could have the front of the camera more open to the air
[04:03] <natrium42> my camera only misted up on descent
[04:03] <juxta> hmm
[04:03] <juxta> maybe mine was so pronounced because I had quite a high ascent rate
[04:04] <natrium42> but it was just a little over, no?
[04:04] <natrium42> did you calculate the exact ascent rate?
[04:04] <juxta> around 8m/s
[04:04] <natrium42> oh
[04:05] <juxta> possibly faster
[04:08] <natrium42> install mini wipers? :P
[04:09] <natrium42> nah, but ventilation would help i think
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[06:33] <rjharrison> hey juxta you about
[06:44] <rjharrison> ping juxta
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[06:54] <juxta> ahh
[06:54] <juxta> just missed him :(
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[07:37] <MikeMc68> morning
[08:02] <Endeavour> Hello
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[08:07] <rjharrison> ping juxta
[08:07] <juxta> hey rjharrison
[08:07] <rjharrison> Hey hows it going
[08:07] <juxta> I'm around now, got in just as you left before :)
[08:07] <rjharrison> I was reading the logs you interested in building a pcb
[08:07] <juxta> not too bad thanks, how about over there?
[08:07] <juxta> yeah, I am :)
[08:08] <rjharrison> Pissing down here atm
[08:08] <rjharrison> Grey day
[08:08] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/svn/
[08:08] <rjharrison> If you go here juxta everything you need is there
[08:08] <juxta> ahh wow
[08:08] <juxta> awesome rjharrison
[08:08] <juxta> who do you use to fab?
[08:08] <rjharrison> Eagle files the software the boards everything
[08:09] <rjharrison> olimex
[08:09] <rjharrison> but you can take advantage of your closeness to the far east and get cheaper
[08:09] <juxta> ahh
[08:09] <juxta> hehe
[08:09] <juxta> well I'd have to get my ahead around eagle properly :)
[08:10] <rjharrison> Yep it takes a while but there are some good tutorials on sparkfun
[08:10] <rjharrison> and on the eagle website too
[08:10] <rjharrison> You don't need to pay for it either
[08:10] <juxta> yeah, I've been working from the sparkfun ones
[08:11] <juxta> I have designed most of a board :)
[08:11] <rjharrison> Cool
[08:11] <rjharrison> Icarus II is easier to wor with
[08:11] <juxta> what do the pcb's cost to make?
[08:11] <rjharrison> work
[08:11] <rjharrison> about 50 quid for two here
[08:11] <rjharrison> basicially one board cut into two
[08:12] <juxta> wow
[08:12] <juxta> that's more expensive than I had guessed
[08:12] <rjharrison> Yep it is a bit but you get just what you need on the board
[08:13] <juxta> do you know what the chinese houses charge?
[08:13] <rjharrison> I would stick with the arduinos for a bit as they are very similar to our boards really
[08:13] <rjharrison> no idead
[08:13] <rjharrison> Any pics up yet?
[08:13] <rjharrison> I had a look at the ones from the ground
[08:14] <juxta> none yet rjharrison, I'll do so shortly :)
[08:14] <rjharrison> Cool do you have a flickr account?
[08:14] <juxta> not yet ;p
[08:15] <rjharrison> Its quite easy to kick them off uploading and do something else whilst they are being done
[08:15] <juxta> haha okok I promise ;p
[08:15] <rjharrison> There is quite alot of hab stuff on there
[08:18] <juxta> rjharrison: I think we might do another small launch in a weeks time
[08:19] <juxta> just with a 200g balloon, no camera
[08:19] <juxta> would like to test a few new ideas with code and tracking
[08:29] <rjharrison> Yep it's adictive
[08:30] <rjharrison> Warn the girlfriend now
[08:30] <rjharrison> unless she's a bit geeky too
[08:30] <rjharrison> Sorry trying to plug in a backup drive
[08:31] <juxta> haha
[08:32] <juxta> not really up her alley, but she enjoyed the chase yesterday, except for the fast driving on dirt roads
[08:33] <juxta> I still havent unpacked my car, I'm going to do now and get the remainder of the cameras etc and memory cards
[08:33] <juxta> to do so* now
[08:34] <rjharrison> Cool I can't wait
[08:34] <rjharrison> btw when you get five you should read the #ha logs during the flight
[08:46] <juxta> rjharrison: where can I find the logs? :)
[08:46] <juxta> I would indeed like to read them, hehe
[08:50] <rjharrison> http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:irc_channel
[08:50] <rjharrison> In the zeusbot section
[09:12] <juxta> cheers rjharrison
[09:12] <juxta> I'm sorting the photos now
[09:16] <juxta> rjharrison: another thing I noticed is I got a lot of reflections of the camera in the filter
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[09:21] <juxta> hmm, the mist/ice was clearing up at around 29,000 feet
[09:21] <juxta> meters*
[09:21] <juxta> if the payload had been up there another 10 minutes I think we might have got some clear shots
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[09:41] <rjharrison__> weird I got booted off the server
[09:42] <rjharrison__> juxta: the lens often clears as you get higher
[09:42] <rjharrison__> Esp given your internal heat
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[09:43] <rjharrison__> The air is very srid at those altitudes almost no humidity at all and if you can make the ice liquid you will soon lose it to the atmosphere
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[09:43] <rjharrison__> Hey I'm back one sec
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[09:44] <rjharrison> it's me
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[09:45] <rjharrison> juxta as I was saying if you haddn't over inflated you would have probably cleared the lens with your internal heat. Depends on how much ice you accumulated
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[09:52] <edmoore> yo juxta
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[10:20] <juxta> hey edmoore, rjharrison
[10:20] <edmoore> hi
[10:20] <juxta> was just having some dinner
[10:20] <edmoore> pics?
[10:20] <edmoore> :)
[10:20] <juxta> doing them now edmoore ;p
[10:20] <juxta> nearly done!
[10:21] <juxta> juist going through the launch day pics from the other cams
[10:21] <jcoxon> morning all
[10:22] <juxta> hey jcoxon
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[10:28] <juxta> ok, uploading to flickr in a moment
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[10:38] <juxta> hey jcoxon
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[10:39] <jcoxon> hey
[10:40] <juxta> I'm just uploading some photos to flickr now :)
[10:40] <juxta> http://www.flickr.com/photos/projecthorus/ should do it I think
[10:49] <jcoxon> such a shame about the icing
[10:50] <jcoxon> around the edges - its looks amazing
[10:51] <juxta> yeah :(
[10:51] <juxta> jcoxon: all the tracks are here: http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1265453438-28371-121.45.84.224.html
[10:52] <juxta> covering the bits we missed where our net access dropped out
[10:53] <jcoxon> cool cool
[10:53] <jcoxon> so going to launch again?
[10:53] <jcoxon> are you hooked yet?
[10:54] <juxta> yes, hehe
[10:54] <juxta> might even launch on this coming Friday
[10:54] <jcoxon> nice
[10:54] <jcoxon> how long does your permission last for?
[10:54] <juxta> 2 years
[10:55] <juxta> so I have lots of time for launches :)
[10:55] <jcoxon> oh wow, thats worth the effort
[10:56] <juxta> yeah, it's not so bad in the end
[10:57] Action: jcoxon dislikes the weather
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[10:59] <juxta> heh, we landed near a little airfield
[10:59] <jcoxon> :-p
[11:03] <Laurenceb> hi
[11:03] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: I'm working on soime sim code for the balloon
[11:03] <jcoxon> great
[11:04] <Laurenceb> so we can fine tune the ballast drop code
[11:04] <jcoxon> yes
[11:04] <jcoxon> do you need any help?
[11:04] <Laurenceb> I'll use the bouyancy data from Rodger Farley
[11:04] <Laurenceb> should bne fine thanks
[11:04] <jcoxon> okay cool
[11:05] <jcoxon> i'm twiddling thumbs waiting for a break in the winds
[11:05] <Laurenceb> Launch next weekend?
[11:05] <jcoxon> hope so
[11:05] <Laurenceb> cool, good luck
[11:05] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9603
[11:05] <Laurenceb> cheaper than SCP-1000
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[11:07] <SpeedEvil> quite a lot
[11:10] <juxta> the honeywell sensor natrium42 used looks quite good I think
[11:10] <jonsowman> hi all
[11:10] <Laurenceb> wasnt it 5v ?
[11:10] <juxta> as it goes down to ~0psi, mine bottomed out at 115hPa
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: the hot-wire thingy...
[11:11] <Laurenceb> juxta: yeah thats kind of handy
[11:11] <SpeedEvil> though calibration...
[11:11] <juxta> Laurenceb: not sure on the voltage, I think probably 5v
[11:11] <juxta> mine was just an absolute pressure transducer, it was also 5v
[11:11] <juxta> but my payload was 5v, so it wasn't a problem
[11:11] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: yeah maybe
[11:11] <Laurenceb> the oxidation is a PITA
[11:12] <Laurenceb> I'm still looking at PT100 sensors - writing some basic FEA code
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> 500C is way too hot.
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> Ping me when you get it able to do hypersonic seperations.
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:15] <juxta> rjharrison: what was that wordpress plugin for flickr again?
[11:18] <Laurenceb> ooh interesting
[11:18] <Laurenceb> that Bosch sensor has similar performance to other stuff - 50Pa over -20 to 60C bias drift
[11:19] <Laurenceb> but its factory calibrated from temperature effects and so on
[11:19] <Laurenceb> theres onboard eeprom with the cal data
[11:19] <Laurenceb> "The 176 bit E2PROM is partitioned in 11 words of 16 bit each. These contain 11 calibration coefficients. Every sensor module has individual coefficients. "
[11:24] <Laurenceb> with calibration two of them may well be matched well enough for use in a pitot/barometric arrangment
[11:33] <SpeedEvil> funky
[11:34] <Laurenceb> apart from the noise - thats going to be about +-1m/s at 5m/s speed
[11:34] <Laurenceb> or +-0.5 at 10 and so on
[11:40] <Laurenceb> but 40hz sampling rate, so you can filter it a bit
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> not bad at all
[11:41] <edmoore> am super keen to see these phots
[11:42] <Laurenceb> guess you could epoxy a bit of brass tube onto that hole
[11:42] <Laurenceb> and use for the pitot hose
[11:42] <SpeedEvil> why epoxy, not o-ring?
[11:43] <jonsowman> hi edmoore, is the BP around?
[11:43] <jonsowman> heading into town in a bit and could pop into eng
[11:43] <edmoore> got it here. although, i am going into town this aft - i could drop it into selwyn?
[11:44] <jonsowman> if its out of your way then dont worry
[11:44] <edmoore> it's not - am driving past
[11:44] <jonsowman> ah great, what sort of time? i'll make sure i'm here
[11:44] <edmoore> could you pm me your mob number? may give you a call so i can hand it over in person if you happen to be physically around
[11:45] <edmoore> hrm, well if i make it co-incide with going to london, about 6? is that any use?
[11:45] <jonsowman> 6 is fine
[11:46] <jonsowman> give me a ring when you're here
[11:46] <jonsowman> i'm likely to be at dinner so it may be a pigeon hole job
[11:46] <edmoore> ok cool
[11:46] <jonsowman> thanks :)
[11:47] <edmoore> np. sorry for not being more efficient about it
[11:47] <jonsowman> dont worry, not a problem :) can imagine you're rather busy at the moment
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[13:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello people
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> hello
[13:01] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
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[13:06] <SpeedEvil> Ok - just lying in bed for the moment.
[13:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:07] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYlW3H7fyBA check that out :)
[13:11] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/G4CWQ.png
[13:11] <Laurenceb> thats the FEA result
[13:11] <Laurenceb> airspeed jumps from 1 to 2m/s at 2 seconds time
[13:13] <edmoore> juxta: ping :p
[13:13] <juxta> hey edmoore
[13:13] <edmoore> how doing?
[13:13] <Laurenceb> thats for a 2x2.3x0.65mm pt100 sensor in constant temperature mode - cooled by airflow on the back
[13:14] <juxta> not too bad - just going over everything from the launch :)
[13:14] <adhoc> juxta: i was wondering what was the purpose of project horus ?
[13:14] <juxta> glad we got it all back, hehe
[13:14] <juxta> adhoc: no purpose as such
[13:14] <adhoc> juxta: other than doing cool stuff with gps and radio and balloons ?
[13:14] <juxta> I may build on it for my studies later
[13:14] <Laurenceb> bbl
[13:14] <juxta> but at this stage it was just something I wanted to do :)
[13:15] <adhoc> =)
[13:15] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[13:15] <adhoc> juxta: what you studying?
[13:15] <juxta> telecomms engineering
[13:15] <adhoc> nice
[13:15] <edmoore> pics up?
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: that's quite acceptable
[13:15] <juxta> yeah they're on flickr
[13:15] <edmoore> oooh link me
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: what sort of temp rise is that?
[13:15] <juxta> www.flickr.com/photos/projecthorus I think?
[13:15] <juxta> yep thats them
[13:16] <edmoore> juxta: i am doing telecomms stuff right now!
[13:16] <juxta> damn condensation/ice :(
[13:16] <edmoore> not understanding it greatly
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: that's a time constnat of about what - .33s?
[13:16] <edmoore> have to code up a simulation of LDPC codes to empirically prove some kind of bound. It's not currently working very well.
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: also - are you assuming the heat is conducted instantly through the device - I'm not sure that's sane
[13:17] <Lunar_Lander> I study Physics btw ;)
[13:17] <juxta> heh
[13:17] <edmoore> goddam ice! http://www.flickr.com/photos/projecthorus/4333841955/
[13:17] <juxta> could be useful for ballooning though edmoore ;p
[13:17] <edmoore> that view looks like a stonka
[13:18] <edmoore> juxta: i'm not sure. they're not so efficient at small block sizes. I'm simming blocksizes around 10000 at the mo
[13:18] <edmoore> i think turbocodes might be better down at this scale
[13:18] <adhoc> juxta: well the external temp hit at least -17c, so im not surprised it iced
[13:18] <juxta> not familiar with that colloquialism edmoore, I guess it means good though ;p
[13:18] <edmoore> very :)
[13:19] <juxta> some sort of coding might be nice to save a few strings every now and a again, I was thinking about it was I drove home last night
[13:19] <russss> meh, so it had a glass filter on the outside of the payload?
[13:19] <russss> and that iced up?
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[13:19] <juxta> yeah it did russss, yeah
[13:19] <juxta> 2 year's for redundancy
[13:20] <juxta> etc
[13:20] <juxta> yeah*'s
[13:20] <russss> considering your external temperatures were actually quite warm I guess you could have done without it
[13:20] <juxta> next time I think I will skip the filters
[13:20] <Lunar_Lander> what was the glass filter for russss?
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> You can also get heatable glass quite cheap in principle
[13:20] <juxta> & I think my ext sensor should be more exposed
[13:21] <juxta> SpeedEvil: like pyrex? or glass that can actually be heated via electric current?
[13:21] <edmoore> we just fly without anything usually, or at least let some air flow between camera and filter if we do fly a filter. it's been ok so far.
[13:22] <edmoore> juxta: re: coding, for sure it would help a whole bunch I think. I don't think 600bps would be unrealistic for us with decent coding
[13:22] <juxta> yeah, I think the filter & lack of airflow was my downfall edmoore
[13:22] <russss> what temperature do cameras usually crap out at?
[13:22] <edmoore> that would give us a completepacket every second
[13:22] <juxta> edmoore: that would be a bonus :)
[13:22] <juxta> I dont think fldigi is even capable of 600baud, hehe
[13:23] <juxta> my cameras were warm when they came out
[13:23] <juxta> that's probably an understatement actually, they were quite hot
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> juxta: coated glass
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> however - practically it'd be easier with a pyrex window with a few resistors glued on
[13:24] <edmoore> we recovered a payload straight after landing where the cameras were actually hot
[13:24] <edmoore> they were well insulated in a snug foam box, and their CPU was running pretty hard thanks to the chdk constantly taking pics and vids
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> yeah - you need to do the numbers
[13:24] <edmoore> and there was no convective cooling up top
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> foam box can cause plenty heating
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> well ...
[13:25] <juxta> yeah, it was warm inside
[13:25] <russss> you need double glazing ;)
[13:25] <juxta> haha
[13:25] <edmoore> silica gel
[13:25] <juxta> I had some silica dessicants inside edmoore
[13:25] <russss> I think silica gel works pretty slowly
[13:25] <juxta> they didnt do enough though
[13:25] <edmoore> good thinking
[13:27] <Lunar_Lander> russss did you get my question?
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> for that sort of thing - where you ned a very small dew-point - you need something more aggressive.
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> 99% H2SO4 is sometimes used
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> Though that has its own issues.
[13:28] <juxta> Rob suggested flushing the payload with He
[13:28] <edmoore> hand warmers + descicant
[13:28] <juxta> to remove moist air
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> handwarmers would work well. Or maybe even a little water.
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[13:31] <Lunar_Lander> hand warmers go to as much as +50°C
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> probably too much heat - unless you ahve a very thin box
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> and then they will decay too fast
[13:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> adequate ventilation will help
[13:35] <juxta> next time I will have the cams vented outside
[13:36] <juxta> what CB frequencies do you guys have in the UK? do you have UHF CB?
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> you can't broadcast on CB freqs airborne
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> only the license free bands - 433/2.4G
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[13:38] <SpeedEvil> pretty much anywya
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[13:42] <juxta> SpeedEvil: oh, no I meant for voice
[13:42] <juxta> we can't use CB for data either
[13:42] <juxta> which is a good thing I think, or CB would be even more polluted than it already is
[13:42] <Lunar_Lander> I think there is also 868 MHz
[13:43] <juxta> hmm, isnt that around cellular freq's?
[13:45] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[13:46] <Lunar_Lander> it is allowed, but rules are stricter than with 433
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[13:49] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYlW3H7fyBA
[13:51] <rjharrison> .
[13:52] <rjharrison> Hey juxta pics up yet?
[13:52] <juxta> hey rjharrison
[13:52] <juxta> yeah they aee
[13:52] <juxta> are*
[13:52] <rjharrison> Cool
[13:52] <rjharrison> on the web site>
[13:52] <rjharrison> ?
[13:52] <juxta> www.flickr.com/photos/projecthorus
[13:54] <rjharrison> http://www.flickr.com/photos/projecthorus/4334586726/
[13:54] <rjharrison> I like this one
[13:55] <rjharrison> juxta, FYI my payload is pretty much sealed whe I fly. I have had problems with ice and I guess it depends on the humidity
[13:55] <rjharrison> Have you plotted the RH against alt yet?
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[13:56] <juxta> yeah I did
[13:56] <juxta> 2 secs I'll grab it
[13:56] <rjharrison> The pics look real good appart from the ice
[13:57] <rjharrison> like you say another 10 mins and the ice would have gone
[14:00] <juxta> rjharrison: www.bogaurd.net/humidity.png
[14:02] <rjharrison> juxta can you plot humidity / alt ?
[14:02] <rjharrison> if you have the data handy or send me the xml
[14:02] <juxta> that one has humidity and alt
[14:02] <juxta> but I'll do humidity vs alt too
[14:03] <rjharrison> Yep but against time
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[14:08] Action: juxta slaps excel
[14:08] <juxta> I'll shoot you the worksheet rjharrison ;p
[14:10] <rjharrison> juxta cool
[14:10] <rjharrison> Nice wright up BTW
[14:10] <Lunar_Lander> I think humidity inside the camera was the problem
[14:10] <juxta> I'm too tired, I will write something proper tomorrow :)
[14:10] <rjharrison> juxta, that's fine I liked it
[14:11] <juxta> Lunar_Lander: there were 2 cams, one didnt have a lens as such, just a plate of glass in front of a sensor
[14:11] <rjharrison> juxta is the spread sheet coming via email
[14:11] <juxta> yeah I sent it a couple of mins ago rjharrison
[14:12] <Lunar_Lander> an
[14:12] <Lunar_Lander> *ah
[14:13] <Lunar_Lander> and that one iced up?
[14:14] <juxta> yeah, well the filter in front of it did
[14:14] <juxta> both filters did
[14:15] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[14:15] <Lunar_Lander> hmm
[14:15] <juxta> actually rjharrison
[14:15] <Lunar_Lander> Auuste Piccard had double glassed windows in his stratosphere capsule
[14:15] <juxta> I just thought of something
[14:15] <juxta> the humidity values are going to be a bit useless
[14:15] <Lunar_Lander> and he had put something between the two glasses to keep that space dry
[14:15] <juxta> as they rely on the ext temp for compensation
[14:16] <juxta> so when that was 85 (as it was a lot), the humidity would have been wrong
[14:16] <juxta> whoopsie
[14:16] <juxta> I'd say that's what those big spikes are
[14:16] <juxta> in my graph
[14:17] <juxta> something for me to remember to fix next time :)
[14:19] <rjharrison> I'll strip out the 85's
[14:19] <juxta> I already did
[14:19] <juxta> but the humidity was already calculated at that point
[14:20] <juxta> hmm
[14:20] <rjharrison> and then we'll have a look at the data
[14:20] <rjharrison> ok cool
[14:20] <juxta> I should have taken out the rows, rather than just guessing the temps where the 85's were
[14:20] <juxta> let me send you a raw dataset rjharrison
[14:20] <rjharrison> ?
[14:20] <juxta> well, I just went through and looked for 85's, replaced them with basically an average of the previous and next temps
[14:21] <rjharrison> ok cool
[14:21] <juxta> raw dataset coming :)
[14:21] <rjharrison> cool
[14:22] <edmoore> "After much stalling & waiting (unsuccessfully) for GPS lock, we decided to launch without lock,"
[14:22] <rjharrison> is there a formula to compensate the RH from the temp?
[14:22] <edmoore> OH MY GOD!!!
[14:23] <rjharrison> go on
[14:23] <rjharrison> lol
[14:23] <rjharrison> I quite like that statement
[14:23] <edmoore> i would ordinarily say that that is the worst idea ever. that you got away with it means someone was smiling on you that day
[14:23] <jonsowman> haha
[14:23] <Randomskk> that is a bit bold
[14:24] <rjharrison> The fact that all GPS sigs were down was a better sign and they seem to have a very good foxer with them
[14:24] <juxta> rjharrison: yeah there is, you can work back from it if you like
[14:24] <edmoore> in all my 30 or so launches, i think that is the only time I've come across something not working on the ground but working in the air
[14:24] <rjharrison> true :)
[14:24] <rjharrison> But it had been well tested :)
[14:25] <juxta> let me find the datasheet, 2 secs
[14:25] <juxta> edmoore: ahh we would have gotten it even without telemetry ;p
[14:26] <juxta> we've picked up the radiosondes OK, and they don't have GPS ;)
[14:26] <edmoore> sure, it's fun to foxhunt. but blimey.
[14:27] <juxta> haha
[14:27] <juxta> True RH = (Sensor RH)/(1.0546 – 0.00216T), T in ºC
[14:27] <juxta> rjharrison ^^\
[14:27] <juxta> if you work back from my values for humidity given the temp, you can get the sensor humidity
[14:27] <juxta> then use a real temp
[14:28] <juxta> edmoore: when we launched we couldnt get lock on anything
[14:29] <juxta> we pulled down a few ephemeris' from the foxhunt truck, then later ran them through the psuedo GPS data we got from the sonde
[14:29] <juxta> they didn't work - only one we grabbed sometime later worked
[14:30] <juxta> so we figure something went pear shaped out of our control
[14:32] <edmoore> ho hum
[14:32] <edmoore> i like the write-up
[14:33] <juxta> thanks edmoore
[14:34] <juxta> actually rjharrison, that temp compensation wont move things much I just realised
[14:34] <juxta> the coefficient on T is tiny
[14:36] <juxta> pretty sure I left our friends shed doors open yesterday
[14:36] <juxta> so I've got to drive out there tomorrow and close them :(
[14:45] <juxta> rjharrison, how did you get one with plotting humidity vs alt?
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[15:12] <Hiena> ' morning!
[15:15] <Lunar_Lander> morning
[15:15] <jonsowman> hello
[15:16] <Hiena> Actually already afternoon here, but i'm kind of slowed down.
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[16:19] <rjharrison> Loks like cloud level at ~4k http://www.robertharrison.org/horus.png
[16:19] <rjharrison> looks
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[16:21] <Lunar_Lander> yes that could well be
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[16:25] <rjharrison> Given that the early data is missing it would be reasonable to assume that the return mimics the ascent and you can see where the ice was added.
[16:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[17:32] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/horus.png
[17:33] <rjharrison> Temp and Humidity against Altitude
[17:34] Action: sbasuita likes this
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[17:37] <rjharrison> Thanks sbasuita
[17:38] <sbasuita> rjharrison, nah but srsly the clouds (are they?) in the humidity are pretty cool
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[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[17:47] <Hiena> http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18427-space-diver-to-attempt-first-supersonic-freefall.html
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[17:49] <Lunar_Lander> I hope that this finally works
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[18:54] <natrium42> "Local Area Network in Australia: The LAN down under."
[18:54] <natrium42> XD
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[18:59] <MikeMc68> lol
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> hi MikeMc68
[19:03] <Endeavour> natrium42: Get me my T90 yet?
[19:03] <MikeMc68> hey
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[19:04] <MikeMc68> k
[19:04] <MikeMc68> u?
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> me too
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> did you receive what I explained about glass and UV yesterday?
[19:05] <natrium42> Endeavour, yes, but it's 10:1 size :D
[19:05] <Endeavour> 10x size!
[19:05] <Endeavour> Magnificent
[19:05] <Endeavour> Super T90
[19:06] <natrium42> was geht ab, Lunar_Lander? :P
[19:06] <Endeavour> Bring it on over.
[19:06] <natrium42> rofl
[19:06] <Endeavour> If customs gives you any problems, just run over the booth.
[19:06] <natrium42> "battlecruiser operational"
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> alles klar :P
[19:06] <Endeavour> No one can stop a super T90
[19:06] <Endeavour> Sehr gut Lunar_Lander, es freut mich sehr das alles ist gut mit dir.
[19:07] <Endeavour> natrium42: I look forward to the delivery.
[19:08] <natrium42> is canada post fine?
[19:09] <Endeavour> Sure
[19:09] <natrium42> k
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[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> wb natrium42 :)
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[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> well people
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> next week will be BH4, how do you feel about that?
[20:08] <rjharrison> Felling good
[20:08] <rjharrison> Lunar_Lander you going to be tracking?
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> well, If I had a radio I would love to help
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> but at the moment I couldn't do better than staring into the sky or something like that
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> sorry for that
[20:11] <natrium42> globaltuners might be worth a shot
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> I'm still at the very beginning
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> we got one
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> what would I need to do?
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[20:39] <natrium42> well, it's just a network of radios that you can use online
[20:39] <natrium42> perhaps it's possible to pick up BH4
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> oh that you mean
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> I thought you mean these little radios called "Weltempfänger"
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> is it globaltuners.com`?
[20:43] <natrium42> those are HF radios, BH4 doesn't use high frequency waves
[20:43] <natrium42> yeah
[20:43] <natrium42> BH4 uses ultra high frequency (UHF)
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander:
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> well I'd need to get myself one of these receivers
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[21:31] <Laurenceb> hi
[21:31] <N900evil> hi
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[21:58] <MikeMc68> evening
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> hi
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[22:53] <natrium42> hi DanielRichman
[22:53] <natrium42> so...
[22:54] Action: natrium42 prepares question
[22:54] Action: DanielRichman runs
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[22:54] <natrium42> :D
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[22:54] <DanielRichman> natrium42, have you seen mai yagi?
[22:54] <natrium42> nope, url?
[22:55] <natrium42> i am planning to make a yagi, actually
[22:55] <natrium42> need good ideas :)
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> hmm
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> Yagis don't look difficult
[22:58] <DanielRichman> natrium42, http://danielrichman.co.uk/temporary/final-{1,2,3,4}.jpg
[22:58] <natrium42> oo, looks nice
[22:59] <natrium42> my question is, what's the best way to do the driving element?
[23:00] <natrium42> i have seen some yagis use a loop, like you did
[23:00] <natrium42> others just use a disconnected element
[23:00] <natrium42> others use a half-loop
[23:02] <DanielRichman> natrium42, I preferred the folded dipole because its easy to make a balun for.
[23:02] <DanielRichman> I'm taking it to the local ham club meet next week to have its SWR and gain tested.
[23:02] <natrium42> ah
[23:02] <natrium42> your radio doesn't have an swr meter?
[23:03] <DanielRichman> natrium42, what radio
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> Daniel the pic doesn't work
[23:03] <natrium42> oh, i see
[23:03] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander fails
[23:03] <DanielRichman> Lunar_Lander, bash expansion sytax
[23:03] <DanielRichman> natrium42, :D
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:03] <DanielRichman> http://danielrichman.co.uk/temporary/final-{1,2,3,4}.jpg means: http://danielrichman.co.uk/temporary/final-1.jpg http://danielrichman.co.uk/temporary/final-2.jpg http://danielrichman.co.uk/temporary/final-3.jpg http://danielrichman.co.uk/temporary/final-14jpg
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[23:04] <natrium42> firefox should support this... expand it to multiple tabs
[23:04] Action: Lunar_Lander facepalms
[23:04] <DanielRichman> yeah
[23:04] <DanielRichman> I suppose if you ran it at command line...
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[23:04] Action: DanielRichman tries it (although with chrome)
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> my FF 3.5.7 didn't to it in normal mode
[23:04] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander, oh it doesn't
[23:04] <natrium42> but it should!
[23:04] <DanielRichman> If you run `bash google-chrome http://danielrichman.co.uk/temporary/final-{1,2,3,4}.jpg`
[23:04] <DanielRichman> then it will open your 4 tabs
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> nice Yagi
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> and nice alarm clock :P
[23:05] <natrium42> juxta, i think you can assemble a complete frame from the pics
[23:05] <natrium42> if you have enough
[23:06] <natrium42> http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/100_1925.jpg
[23:06] <natrium42> looks quite doable
[23:08] <DanielRichman> What causes the blob infront of his lenz?
[23:08] <natrium42> condensate
[23:08] <DanielRichman> on inside or outside?
[23:08] <natrium42> inside i think
[23:08] <DanielRichman> what's the best way to deal with it?
[23:08] <natrium42> he kept his payload very warm
[23:08] <DanielRichman> I see
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> a desiccant
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> that is a possible solution
[23:09] <natrium42> i didn't have a problem, but i never tried a filter
[23:09] <DanielRichman> Is a UV filter worth it?
[23:09] <DanielRichman> We've got one
[23:09] <natrium42> might remove haze
[23:09] <DanielRichman> mmm
[23:09] <natrium42> rob launched with filters, best to ask him
[23:09] <natrium42> his pics looked very good
[23:10] <natrium42> he says to flush payload with helium before launch
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> that's also a good idea
[23:13] <DanielRichman> He inside the box? Hmm
[23:13] <DanielRichman> But we intend to fully seal it as we launch
[23:13] <DanielRichman> Gonna have to be fast :P
[23:17] <natrium42> DanielRichman, can't you launch sbasuita ?
[23:17] <natrium42> he'd clean the lens if necessary
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> xD :P
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> but it needn't be helium Daniel
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> nitrogen could also be used for flushing
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[23:31] Nick change: laurence_ -> Laurenceb_
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[23:39] <juxta> I'll give it a go tonight I think natrium42
[23:39] <juxta> (assembling a full frame, that is)
[23:39] <natrium42> :)
[23:39] <juxta> I have to go to work now :(
[23:40] <natrium42> but it's sunday
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[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[23:59] <Laurenceb_> this is interesting - running a pt100 in constant temperature mode increases response time by an order of magnitude
[23:59] <Laurenceb_> roughly
[00:00] --- Sun Feb 7 2010