highaltitude.log.20100131

[00:01] <Laurenceb> more like 100us
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[00:01] <Laurenceb> these things have crazy fast response times
[00:02] <Endeavour> Howdy.
[00:02] <Laurenceb> you can do cool wind tunnel diagnostics with them
[00:02] <Laurenceb> e.g. flow separation - observe individual vortices and stuff
[00:02] <SpeedEvil> fun
[00:02] <Laurenceb> Endeavour: hi
[00:03] <Endeavour> Hello Laurenceb
[00:03] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: also very good resolution at low speed - drafts of a few cm/s and stuff
[00:03] <SpeedEvil> Sounds good if it works
[00:03] <SpeedEvil> I don't see why it wouldn't
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[00:25] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[06:31] <juxta> hey natrium42
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[08:20] <juxta> natrium42, you around?
[08:21] <natrium42> hi
[08:21] <juxta> ah, you're up :)
[08:21] <natrium42> it's only 3:20am
[08:21] <juxta> heh
[08:21] <juxta> just writing the code to do the car tracking
[08:21] <juxta> how often can I post to the tracker?
[08:22] <natrium42> as often as you want
[08:22] <juxta> hmm
[08:22] <juxta> once a second seems excessive i suspect
[08:22] <natrium42> yeah
[08:22] <natrium42> maybe a bit more :)
[08:23] <juxta> perhaps 1/10 secs
[08:23] <juxta> every 10 secs i mean
[08:23] <natrium42> sounds good
[08:23] <juxta> alright
[08:24] <juxta> will test it when I drive home in a bit
[08:24] <natrium42> the javascript grabs the data every 10 seconds, btw
[08:25] <natrium42> so not much point to post updates faster than that
[08:26] <juxta> yeah, i thought it was around 10 secs
[08:27] <juxta> natrium42: does the tracker ignore 0000.0000,00000.0000?
[08:27] <natrium42> hmm, maybe
[08:27] <juxta> okay
[08:27] <natrium42> i put in some checks for one of the last launches
[08:27] <natrium42> should i remove it?
[08:27] <juxta> is there a response code btw?
[08:27] <juxta> nah, thats fine
[08:28] <natrium42> no response code :S
[08:28] <juxta> didnt think so
[08:28] <natrium42> but you could search for the word "error"
[08:28] <juxta> just got a path to php
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[08:28] <natrium42> the script can also take emails, if it's easier for you
[08:28] <natrium42> but GET/POST is better
[08:28] <juxta> hopefully should be ok, doing checksum validation on the GPS & only sending valid fixes
[08:28] <juxta> http is easier :)
[08:29] <natrium42> :)
[08:29] <natrium42> do you have error checking on the radio strings?
[08:29] <juxta> yeah
[08:30] <juxta> just an XOR checksum like NMEA
[08:30] <natrium42> k, nice
[08:30] <juxta> ok, i just finished work, let me fix up this code and you can watch me drive home if all goes to plan ;p
[08:31] <natrium42> :D
[08:32] <natrium42> don't speed
[08:32] <juxta> heh
[08:32] <juxta> okay, it seems to be working
[08:33] <juxta> every 10 secs
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[08:33] <juxta> should probably flush the buffers too incase it takes a while to do the post, as it'll be mobile broadband
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[08:35] <juxta> i'll fix that later, gonna drive home with it now
[08:35] <natrium42> kk
[08:35] <natrium42> have a nice ride :)
[08:35] <juxta> hehe
[08:36] <juxta> thanks natrium42
[08:36] <natrium42> np
[08:36] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:37] <natrium42> hi jcoxon
[08:37] <jcoxon> yup late natrium42
[08:37] <jcoxon> hows the sd card going?
[08:37] <juxta> hi jcoxon
[08:37] <jcoxon> hey juxta
[08:37] <natrium42> well, it turned out that the lens was messed up after impact from halo2
[08:38] <natrium42> so i had to take the camera completely apart
[08:38] <jcoxon> oh
[08:38] <natrium42> and fix the lens
[08:38] <natrium42> but it works now :)
[08:38] <jcoxon> i miss taking apart cameras
[08:38] <natrium42> hehe
[08:38] <jcoxon> the amount of times i shorted the flash capacitor on myself
[08:38] <natrium42> haha
[08:38] <jcoxon> yeah i haven't launched a camera on a payload in a while
[08:38] <natrium42> i disconnected the cap first thing
[08:39] <jcoxon> good plan
[08:39] <natrium42> going to scrap most of the unnecessary components
[08:39] <juxta> i got myself with the caps in mine about 10 times
[08:39] <juxta> then finally removed it
[08:39] <jcoxon> right i need to plan my day - lots to do, very little time to do it in
[08:39] <juxta> im off, data should be on the tracker in about 10 minutes natrium42, if you're still up :)
[08:40] <natrium42> k :)
[08:40] <natrium42> jcoxon, you could watch tennis final :P
[08:41] <natrium42> got your man there, rite
[08:42] <jcoxon> indeed
[08:43] <jcoxon> ooo its on bbc1
[08:43] <natrium42> i am recording it, need to get some sleep
[08:44] <jcoxon> hehe, hopefully will get BH4 finished today
[08:44] <natrium42> cool
[08:44] <jcoxon> need to wait for the shops to open to get some more hot glue sticks
[08:44] <natrium42> haha, hot glue ftw
[08:46] <jcoxon> its a lot more streamline then BH3 :-D
[08:47] <natrium42> are you going for a cutdown?
[08:48] <jcoxon> nah
[08:48] <natrium42> so it could end up in france again, eh?
[08:48] <jcoxon> yup
[08:48] <natrium42> at least you know whom to contact now
[08:48] <natrium42> :P
[08:48] <jcoxon> exactly
[08:49] juxta_ (blah@ppp59-167-1-68.lns1.mel4.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[08:49] <juxta_> in the car, just waiting on a fix
[08:49] <jcoxon> it'll be a good flight
[08:49] <juxta_> jcoxon: BH4?
[08:50] <jcoxon> natrium42, the only real criteria for not launch will be if its going over london
[08:50] <jcoxon> juxta_ yeah
[08:50] <juxta_> i'll be following :D
[08:50] <natrium42> so if you finish it today, when could you launch it?
[08:51] <jcoxon> next weekend
[08:51] <natrium42> \o/
[08:52] <jcoxon> well the flight computer is well tested, 3 flights and about 30 simulations
[08:52] <jcoxon> this is good tennis
[08:59] <juxta_> natrium42: seems to be working
[08:59] <natrium42> wow, nice to see some negative latitudes in the tracker
[08:59] <juxta_> but the gps has a sketchy lock
[08:59] <natrium42> :)
[09:00] <natrium42> don't text while driving, juxta_ !
[09:00] <juxta_> haha
[09:00] <juxta_> i'm stopped ;p
[09:00] <jcoxon> http://pegasus4.no-ip.org/
[09:00] <natrium42> neat, good work
[09:01] <jcoxon> as i run them in real time it takes sooo long to get through a flight
[09:03] <jcoxon> juxta_ i may need to borrow the tracker next weekend :-)
[09:04] <natrium42> he's driving on the wrong side of the road!
[09:04] <natrium42> oh wait, it's australia :P
[09:05] <natrium42> brb, sleep
[09:05] <natrium42> nn
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[09:19] <juxta_> no worries jcoxon
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[09:20] <juxta_> i think i may be launching on the same day as you
[09:22] <jcoxon> ooo that'll be fun
[09:23] <jcoxon> saturday?
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[09:45] <MikeMc68> morning
[09:49] <jcoxon> morning MikeMc68
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[09:57] <jcoxon> hmmm i really could do with some gluesticks now
[09:57] Action: jcoxon has run out
[10:52] <juxta> jcoxon: I think we may launch Friday
[10:52] <juxta> or perhaps sat
[10:52] <juxta> depending on weather
[10:55] <jcoxon> okay well i'll be launching sat afternoon localtime
[10:55] <jcoxon> of course depending on the weather
[10:57] <juxta> how long will you be aloft this time jcoxon?
[10:59] <jcoxon> ummmm well if all goes well 10+hrs
[10:59] <jcoxon> but i doubt that
[11:00] <jcoxon> well if it floats properly then 10+hrs
[11:00] <jcoxon> but if the ballast tanks work then less as dumping ballast will break float and cause it to rise
[11:01] <juxta> ah right
[11:01] <juxta> any idea of landing spot?
[11:01] <juxta> ie france/belgium?
[11:02] <jcoxon> hmmmm maybe out directly east
[11:02] <jcoxon> but a little early
[11:02] <jcoxon> as long as its not over london i don't mind really
[11:02] <juxta> fair enough
[11:03] <juxta> I wish we had the road network density you guys do
[11:03] <MikeMc68> will you be engaging HAM's on the continent this time for tracking?
[11:04] <juxta> hey MikeMc68
[11:04] <jcoxon> MikeMc68, yes
[11:04] <juxta> how's your launch coming along?
[11:04] <jcoxon> they are already cc'd on the advanced warning email
[11:04] <jcoxon> but will directly email them on weds
[11:05] <jcoxon> MikeMc68, you going to be available to track?
[11:05] <juxta> I took some photos of my launch site if anybody wants to see
[11:06] <jcoxon> yeah go for it
[11:06] <MikeMc68> If it is at the weekend then yes i'll be available
[11:06] <MikeMc68> Yes please
[11:07] <jcoxon> cool cool - i reckon you'll be well placed for tracking
[11:08] <juxta> www.bogaurd.net/launch/IMG_3325.jpg
[11:08] <juxta> that's where we'll be inflating
[11:08] <juxta> www.bogaurd.net/launch/IMG_3328.jpg
[11:08] <juxta> the field
[11:09] <juxta> www.bogaurd.net/launch/IMG_3332.jpg - we can use any of those paddocks if the wind is too strong to launch in the first field
[11:09] <juxta> but the field would be good given the shed opens right onto it
[11:11] <jcoxon> cool - looks good
[11:12] <juxta> hopefully the pine trees aren't too close
[11:12] <juxta> I dont know how much to expect it to drift when I let it go
[11:12] <MikeMc68> Looks like the US not UK
[11:12] <juxta> not very green this time of year :)
[11:13] <jcoxon> mmmmm just completely salvaged the antenna off BH3 for BH4
[11:13] <MikeMc68> Are you anticipating getting this one back?
[11:13] <jcoxon> nah
[11:13] <jcoxon> didn't expect BH3 back
[11:15] <juxta> jcoxon: any idea if there's a way to turn the alt graph off for some vehicles on the tracker?
[11:15] <juxta> dont really need the alt of our chase cars graphed
[11:16] <jcoxon> hmmmm it was a dirty hack for the last flight - would need to speak to natrium
[11:16] <juxta> alright
[11:16] <juxta> the chase cars dont even report it
[11:16] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:16] <juxta> would be good if the tracker rounded the coords a bit
[11:16] <jcoxon> right need some opinions
[11:16] <juxta> SpeedEvil: 62.347568km/h
[11:16] <juxta> whoops
[11:17] <juxta> speed*
[11:17] <jcoxon> need to put a small air vent in the ballast tank
[11:17] <jcoxon> last time we forgot and managed to lose ballast out of the top by putting it on its side :-p
[11:17] <jcoxon> any ideas of a way of making a one-way valve
[11:18] <juxta> you can get little valves for dripper sprinklers
[11:18] <juxta> that's not exactly making it though :)
[11:19] <jcoxon> oooo i've got an idea
[11:19] <juxta> oh actually, jcoxon
[11:20] <juxta> lots of coffee bags come with one way air valves
[11:20] <juxta> http://one-simple-idea.com/CoffeeBagOneWayDegassingValve.jpg
[11:20] <jcoxon> you know in bottles, in the lid is a pit of flexible plastic, just stick one in glue one ide
[11:20] <jcoxon> side*
[11:22] <MikeMc68> like the top of a ketchup bottle?
[11:22] <juxta> the little blue plastic bits?
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[11:23] <juxta> I think the tennis might be over, I hear a lot of cheering
[11:25] <edmoore> boo
[11:25] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[11:26] <edmoore> hi
[11:26] <edmoore> how's it going?
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[11:27] <edmoore> whoops
[11:27] <jcoxon> good thanks, final stages of BH4 build
[11:28] <edmoore> pics or it didn't happen
[11:28] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/4316324367/in/set-72157623226106480/
[11:28] <jcoxon> though thats from yesterday
[11:29] <Laurenceb> hi
[11:29] <edmoore> yumm
[11:29] <Laurenceb> looks good
[11:29] <Laurenceb> hot wire cutter?
[11:29] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:29] <MikeMc68> that looks suspiciously like a Sparkfun box
[11:29] <jcoxon> it is
[11:29] <Laurenceb> I was about to say that :P
[11:29] <MikeMc68> lol
[11:29] <jcoxon> edmoore, its a lot more streamline
[11:29] <Laurenceb> is that flying?
[11:30] <jcoxon> it will
[11:30] <MikeMc68> Is the cutter just some nichrome and a battery?
[11:30] <Laurenceb> heh you could tell spoarkfun about it
[11:30] <Laurenceb> the flying box :P
[11:32] <juxta> jcoxon: what are you powering your cutter with?
[11:32] <juxta> I used an old computer PSU for mine
[11:33] <Laurenceb> neat plan
[11:34] <jcoxon> oh i've got a variable regulatred AC/DC convertor
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[11:34] <rjharrison> morning all
[11:34] <juxta> hey rjharrison
[11:34] <rjharrison> finally got on to IRC
[11:35] <rjharrison> Hey juxta any news yet?
[11:35] <rjharrison> Just on 20m doing a few qsls
[11:35] <juxta> I got approval a couple of days ago, not sure if I told you
[11:35] <rjharrison> Yeeee!
[11:35] <rjharrison> No I didn't know
[11:35] <rjharrison> cool
[11:35] <juxta> hoping to launch this fri, just drafting up an email to you and others ;p
[11:35] <rjharrison> So when is launch :)
[11:35] <rjharrison> Cool
[11:36] <rjharrison> PIng jcoxon
[11:36] <juxta> actually, rjharrison & jcoxon, seeing as you're here, I was going to ask a question
[11:36] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison
[11:36] <rjharrison> Pire away
[11:36] <rjharrison> I james
[11:36] <rjharrison> fire:)
[11:36] <rjharrison> How is it going sorry I misse dthe conf call stuck on a train for 3 hours :(
[11:37] <jcoxon> rjharrison, no worries
[11:37] <juxta> with the custom data field - how how does natrium's tracker know what the names of the fields are? doesn't view.php need to post it to the tracker with the variable names?
[11:37] <juxta> not sure if I'm clear with my question
[11:37] <rjharrison> Master coxon might know the answer as that is a recent addition
[11:38] <rjharrison> I think it might be hard coded but I might be wrong
[11:38] <jcoxon> right, well at present its hardcoded into the tracker
[11:38] <juxta> rjharrison: I tested chase vehicle reporting today
[11:38] <rjharrison> cool
[11:38] <juxta> ah, okay, that makes sense
[11:38] <jcoxon> but
[11:38] <rjharrison> jucta do you know how to clear down the tracker?
[11:38] <rjharrison> juxta even
[11:38] <juxta> I would have used your code rjharrison, but our tracker pc's are windows
[11:39] <juxta> yep, no hassles there rjharrison :)
[11:39] <jcoxon> its also set up so that we could adapt the server to post the data
[11:39] <rjharrison> using the admin bit
[11:39] <rjharrison> I like to keep a copy of launch data though so don't flush the launch
[11:39] <jcoxon> as in within the custom data we can define various fields and the tracker will update apropraite
[11:39] <juxta> plus half of the work was that other software on the PC needs access to the serial port too, for our offline tracking
[11:40] <juxta> jcoxon: yeah I knew I could just tack another field on and it would get added, but I wasnt sure how that bridge was crossed with telemtry -> tracker :)
[11:40] <juxta> as in tack on another field in the custom data in a POST/GET request
[11:41] <jcoxon> so hte next step would be for the server to be updated to follow this and we define the various fields within the xml
[11:41] <jcoxon> but now the custom data can be split up as well
[11:41] <juxta> I've got to do a test with tracking my payload with custom data
[11:41] <juxta> mmaybe tomorrow night
[11:42] <jcoxon> so really its a job for rjharrison :-)
[11:43] <rjharrison> Ok I'm up for that
[11:43] <rjharrison> So we define custom fileds in the xml and the tracker pulles the filed headdings from the xml
[11:43] <juxta> if all recipients in an email are BCC:, it'll just show up as undisclosed-recipients, right?
[11:44] <rjharrison> Yep I tend to put my own as the TO and every one else in BCC
[11:44] <juxta> rjharrison: doesnt the telemetry server just post to the tracker?
[11:44] <juxta> or does the tracker pull the xml from the telemtry?
[11:44] <rjharrison> Hit Itally, Serbia and Russia this morning on 20M :)
[11:45] <juxta> (telemtry server, I dont know what it's real name is, I guess a box of yours somewhere)
[11:45] <rjharrison> No the XML is stored on the server the TELEMETRY should just be data
[11:45] <rjharrison> yep www.robertharrison.org/listen.php
[11:45] <juxta> yeah
[11:45] <juxta> thats what I meant ;p
[11:45] <jcoxon> rjharrison, no, more that the listener server splits the custom field and using the fields defined in the xml e.g. temp1 it passes it to tracker tacked onto the end
[11:45] <juxta> the tracker and roberharrison.org are not on the same machine, are they?
[11:46] <juxta> listener server, that's a better name jcoxon :)
[11:46] <rjharrison> Yeo
[11:46] <rjharrison> yep they are atm
[11:46] <juxta> oh alright
[11:47] <rjharrison> what is your payload called?
[11:47] <jcoxon> okay - need to discuss this with natrium later
[11:47] <jcoxon> check what hes changed
[11:47] <rjharrison> jcoxon are we going to conf tonight
[11:47] <juxta> my payload is horus rjharrison
[11:48] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/horus.xml
[11:48] <rjharrison> this is your XML file :)
[11:49] <juxta> yep yep
[11:50] <juxta> I was also going to ask - the time field on my tranmissions
[11:50] <juxta> should it be UTC, or can it be local time?
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[11:55] <rjharrison> juxta local time is fine
[11:55] <juxta> good-o
[11:56] <rjharrison> There are issues if you go over the UK day ir from 23.59 to 00:00 as it will jump on day
[11:56] <rjharrison> but that's not a problem
[11:57] <juxta> I think we'll probably launch shortly after 00:00 UTC
[11:58] <rjharrison> Ok that would be good you're the first person to test from the otherside of the world.
[11:58] <rjharrison> You can run some test data through the system and see how it goes
[11:59] <rjharrison> Hey DanielRichman how close are you guys these days?
[11:59] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, hold on there one sec
[11:59] <DanielRichman> Ok I need an "assessment" of how badly this folded dipole won't work
[11:59] <sbasuita> rjharrison, we're pretty much done
[11:59] <DanielRichman> http://www.danielrichman.co.uk/P1000948.JPG http://www.danielrichman.co.uk/P1000949.JPG
[12:00] <DanielRichman> http://www.danielrichman.co.uk/P1000959.JPG (it should have been 29mm)
[12:00] <DanielRichman> Pic of the yagi: http://www.danielrichman.co.uk/P1000961.JPG
[12:00] <sbasuita> rjharrison, but we've been very busy preparing for mock exams starting in a week's time
[12:00] <DanielRichman> ping Randomskk ^^ the promised pictures
[12:00] <DanielRichman> Should I
[12:01] <DanielRichman> 1) reattempt with another piece of brass at school using the higher-power blowtorch there
[12:01] <DanielRichman> 2) reattempt with aluminium
[12:02] <sbasuita> DanielRichman, parasitic elements look v. nice ;)
[12:02] <DanielRichman> sbasuita, some are a little bit wonky and the majority of them are 1mm off center, but should be ok
[12:02] <sbasuita> ;P
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[12:04] <rjharrison> DanielRichman I think that should do the trick
[12:04] <rjharrison> It won't be perfect but should function fine
[12:04] <rjharrison> Have you done some tests
[12:04] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, no, not yet
[12:06] <rjharrison> Just had a qsl with italy
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[12:06] Nick change: G8DSU_ -> G8DSU
[12:07] <juxta> DanielRichman: 1mm won't matter all that much
[12:07] <juxta> and the dipole looks okay!
[12:08] <DanielRichman> juxta, despite the height being more like 35mm rather than 29mm and the tip-to-tip being more like 335 rather than 343?
[12:11] <juxta> DanielRichman: being precise helps of course, but as an example, my TV antenna is a yagi, and it has elements which are probably 50mm out of alignment thanks to the local birds. granted my local TV stations broadcast with 200kW rather than 10mW, but my point is that it won't ruin things for you
[12:11] <juxta> I used a yagi made for 403mhz on my 434mhz balloon and had no trouble at all with it, despite every single element being right off the mark :)
[12:12] <juxta> (obviously the better the build the better the performance though)
[12:12] <juxta> I wouldnt worry too much about a few mm out on the first one
[12:12] <DanielRichman> hmm Okey
[12:12] <DanielRichman> Next time I use a pillar drill though
[12:12] <juxta> a drill press?
[12:13] <DanielRichman> Yeah
[12:13] <juxta> yeah, I wish I had one
[12:13] <juxta> would make things very easy
[12:13] <DanielRichman> provided I build it in the next 2 years I can use the one at school
[12:13] <juxta> haha
[12:13] <juxta> well that's easy then
[12:13] <juxta> they're not too pricey here
[12:13] <juxta> i think maybe $200 for a cheap one
[12:14] <juxta> probably not good for anything harder than aluminium though
[12:14] <DanielRichman> the ones at school are old but beastly - they look like the raw materials would exceed that
[12:14] <juxta> i love old tools machinery
[12:15] <juxta> I went to a metal shop to have some gears cut a while ago - the gear cutters they used were from the 1920's and 1930's :D
[12:19] <DanielRichman> but still working well, I imagine
[12:19] <juxta> yeah
[12:19] <DanielRichman> You have to put quite a lot of effort in to kill one of those
[12:19] <juxta> retrofitted with modern electric motors
[12:20] <Randomskk> DanielRichman, nice!
[12:20] <Randomskk> out of interest, how did you bend the dipole?
[12:20] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, blowtorch, piece of wood
[12:21] <Randomskk> I really like how it looks with a metal boom to be honest. what're the little black things between elements and boom?
[12:21] <Randomskk> ah, okay
[12:21] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, however I found that it didn't take to being bent round a piece of wood very kindly; hence the not-so-circular bend
[12:21] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, the black things are heatshrink stuff from maplin
[12:21] <Randomskk> I just put down a bit of PVC tubing with the correct outer diameter and laid the element under it and perpendicular, then pulled up both sides at the same time until they were parallel
[12:21] <DanielRichman> with araldite on top
[12:21] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, i see
[12:21] <Randomskk> then repeated for the other side
[12:22] <DanielRichman> I'll have to find a better way to secure the metal rather than holding it for yagi 2.0
[12:22] <Laurenceb> eww araldite
[12:22] <juxta> ah I didn't see your whole yagi pic DanielRichman
[12:22] <Laurenceb> use cheap epoxy
[12:22] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4193762874/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4192993309/
[12:22] <Laurenceb> araldite is studpidly overpriced
[12:22] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, that looks much nicer
[12:22] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: nice
[12:23] <jcoxon> right time to go shopping
[12:24] <jcoxon> sbasuita, did you get my message that ive got the radio
[12:24] <sbasuita> jcoxon, yep
[12:24] <jcoxon> cool cool
[12:24] <sbasuita> jcoxon, i put your little ntx2 circuit in there as well
[12:24] <jcoxon> yes thanks
[12:25] <sbasuita> was a bit worried you might mistake it for another piece o bubble wrap :P
[12:25] <jcoxon> i did for a bit :-p
[12:25] <jcoxon> right bbl
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[12:56] <MikeMc68> Randomskk what did you use for the metal in that Yagi?
[12:58] <MikeMc68> I mean - I know it is aluminium but what is it? Where did you get it?
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[13:00] <SpeedEvil> Ebay works for metals. As can screwfix, toolstation, or even b&q
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> wander round looking for anything that can be repurposed.
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> Also your local recycling centre may be of use.
[13:00] <MikeMc68> oh i always do that
[13:00] <MikeMc68> every time i go into any kind of store i am looking what i can repurpose into something else
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[13:10] <Randomskk> MikeMc68: it was anodised aluminium rod from B&Q
[13:10] <Randomskk> which is absolutely horrid to solder
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[13:20] <Laurenceb> wow
[13:20] <Laurenceb> you managed to solder it?
[13:21] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: sand then solder very quicky?
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> you sandpaper off the worst of the anodising.
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> then you place it in a little tub of oil
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> and sand it off some more.
[13:22] <Laurenceb> aha
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> and then remove it - leaving an oil coating on - and solder with a very hot iron
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> can mostly work
[13:22] <Laurenceb> clever
[13:22] <Laurenceb> I've seen special solders for alu
[13:23] <Laurenceb> can you use normal solders? leadfree?
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> zinc basically.
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> I've never tried the above with leadfree
[13:23] <Laurenceb> ah i see
[13:24] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: what solder did you use?
[13:25] <MikeMc68> would it not be easier just to drill a hole in it, put a nut and bolt through and solder the wire to the bolt?
[13:26] <Laurenceb> what I was thinking :P
[13:26] <Laurenceb> but getting alu soldering to work is pretty impressive
[13:40] <juxta> soldering alu is a pain in the proverbial
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[14:00] Action: SpeedEvil ponders the insanity of doing 'fft' in gnuplot.
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> (looped fit to sine functions)
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> probably a bad idea
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[14:17] <hsmith> hi everyone. I'm building a moxon to track Ballast Halo 4 - should I fit a torroidal balun to the coax cable?
[14:18] <Hiena> Ugh...What do you want to do with the balun? Fit the impedance of your antenna to your receiver?
[14:19] <Hiena> What kind of antenna will you use?
[14:19] <hsmith> im not an expert - a novice. saw one wrapped around the coax near to soldering points in a diagram on web
[14:20] <Hiena> Would you mind to link the site?
[14:20] <hsmith> will find
[14:20] <hsmith> the radio is a yaesu 790r
[14:21] <Hiena> The torroidal ferrite core on the cable used as the nois suspressor.
[14:21] <hsmith> the moxon design is this: http://www.moxonantennaproject.com/sm5jab/sm5jab_2.htm
[14:21] <hsmith> yes, as a noise suppressor - do you think it is necessary - could it do any harm?
[14:21] <hsmith> I have a torroid I coud fit, before soldering up
[14:22] <Hiena> Ah, i see. It's a kind of two element yagi wit open dipole.
[14:23] <hsmith> yes
[14:24] <hsmith> is ti worth fitting the torroid do you think, I have one lying arond, but don't understand them
[14:26] <Hiena> As i see, the balun used as a suspressor here. You could add, but not so really necessary.
[14:26] <hsmith> got to go out for a couple of hours, if any one has any views, I'll leave this channel open for you guys to post any advice - much appreciated
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[14:30] <jcoxon> back :)
[15:08] <edmoore> jcoxon: talk to hsmith - he was asking about moxons
[15:08] <edmoore> bbl
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[15:52] <MikeMc68> Anybody tried a Maple board - http://leaflabs.com/Maple ?
[15:52] Action: SpeedEvil prefers oak.
[15:53] <MikeMc68> Yeah the Oak is more powerful, but the Maple is great for beginners and those used to the Arduino IDE
[15:55] Action: SpeedEvil was making a timber based joke.
[15:55] <jcoxon> yeah i've looked at them
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> sorry
[15:56] <MikeMc68> lol well they also make an Oak board
[15:56] <jcoxon> but i can't really think of why i'd upgrade to it - nothing I do is that intensive
[15:56] <Randomskk> I've used what is essentially a maple board
[15:56] <Randomskk> their firmware on my PCB
[15:58] <MikeMc68> I like the look of the mBed baords too - they have built in Ethernet
[15:59] <MikeMc68> not much use for HAB of course - but for other projects
[15:59] <edmoore> mBed came out of cambridge iirc
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[17:00] <DanielRichman> http://www.danielrichman.co.uk/internals-1.jpg http://www.danielrichman.co.uk/internals-2.jpg
[17:00] <DanielRichman> Look ok? I'm about to screw the lid on
[17:01] <Randomskk> yea, looks fine
[17:01] <Randomskk> mine is much the same but has no lid or bnc connector :D
[17:02] <Randomskk> or box, for that matter
[17:02] <DanielRichman> Cool, on goes the lid
[17:05] <DanielRichman> Gah!
[17:05] Action: DanielRichman just made a screwdriver-shaped hole in his hand
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[17:05] <Randomskk> ouch
[17:15] <DanielRichman> Hmm, should I have the bnc connector facing into the middle of the antenna or backwards towards the reflector? (Randomskk sbasuita)?
[17:16] <Randomskk> I don't think it makes a big difference but personally towards reflector is more logical for actually connecting it
[17:16] <Randomskk> that's the direction your cable is going to go
[17:17] <DanielRichman> ok
[17:22] <MikeMc68> is that a moxon?
[17:22] <Randomskk> I really wanna make a new yagi I think
[17:22] <Randomskk> with a better soldered wire and a connector instead of a cable
[17:22] <Randomskk> hmm
[17:22] <Randomskk> and with more elements for less length? dunno
[17:22] <Randomskk> the current one is really long but doesn't have many elements
[17:23] <Randomskk> that and make one to a significantly higher accuracy, this one has some decidedly non-parallel elements
[17:23] <Randomskk> also, metal boom
[17:23] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, do you have a radio?
[17:30] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, not this minute, will do when it comes to launching
[17:31] <DanielRichman> pictures of the final thing coming up:
[17:31] <Randomskk> what radio are you going for?
[17:31] <Randomskk> btw resize your jpgs :P
[17:31] <DanielRichman> :P yeah, it seriously impacts on my ability to view iplayer if I stick the 2mb ones up
[17:32] <Randomskk> or better yet, shove them on something like flickr, so people can view full size and smaller sizes and it doesn't affect you at all
[17:32] <DanielRichman> These are just temporary pics - the ones i linked earlier today will 404
[17:32] <Randomskk> you save bandwidth as soon as more than one person has looked at them, that way
[17:32] <Randomskk> ah, fair enough
[17:32] <Randomskk> in which case yea, resize :P
[17:33] <DanielRichman> Oh but the effort !
[17:33] <Randomskk> got linux?
[17:34] <DanielRichman> yeah, hold on, I'maboutto imagemagick them
[17:34] <Randomskk> yea
[17:34] <Randomskk> mogrify -resize 1024x *.jpg
[17:34] <DanielRichman> Very useful package, that imagemagick
[17:36] <DanielRichman> http://danielrichman.co.uk/final-{1,2,3,4}.jpg
[17:37] <Randomskk> shame my browser doesn't recognise bash expansion syntax
[17:37] <Randomskk> looks great though
[17:38] <DanielRichman> :)
[17:38] <Randomskk> shame you don't have a radio to test with
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[17:38] <DanielRichman> It stil has 24hrs to dry
[17:38] <aLeXBrEtOn_> ?
[17:38] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, sbasuita, http://danielrichman.co.uk/final-1.jpg (final-2, final-3, final-4)
[17:39] <aLeXBrEtOn_> DanielRichman: put t onto the blog
[17:39] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, later :X
[17:39] <jcoxon> looks good
[17:39] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, it's still drying, want to test it first
[17:39] <aLeXBrEtOn_> DanielRichman: shoulda been on blog 1st ;-)
[17:40] <DanielRichman> Wednesday + 1 week is BARC club "show and tell" meeting
[17:40] <DanielRichman> I'll mail them if i remember and ask atleast one person to have an swr meter and a radio that won't explode if I've done it wrong and the swr goes miles high
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[17:42] <jcoxon> hi Endeavour
[17:43] <Endeavour> Hello
[17:43] <jcoxon> welcome to #highaltitude :-D
[17:43] <Randomskk> hi Endeavour
[17:43] <Endeavour> Heh, thanks
[17:43] <Hiena> DanielRichman, that reminds me, why we used switching transistors instead the expensive RF ones.
[17:43] <Endeavour> Hello Randomskk. What are you doing here?
[17:44] <Randomskk> well mostly discussingi anything to do with high altitude projects
[17:44] <Randomskk> such as balloons, gliders etc
[17:44] <Randomskk> :P
[17:44] <Endeavour> Heh
[17:44] <MikeMc68> lol
[17:44] <Endeavour> Have you done high altitude stuff?
[17:44] <Randomskk> or if I'm not just quoting the topic, talking about my off-topic quadcopter and pretending I do HA stuff
[17:44] <edmoore> you two know each other?
[17:44] <Randomskk> Endeavour: well I am part of cambridge university spaceflight
[17:45] <edmoore> or just eKnow each other
[17:45] <Randomskk> the latter
[17:45] <Endeavour> eKnow
[17:45] <Endeavour> I see Random.
[17:45] <Endeavour> I might be doing a high altitude balloon.
[17:45] <Randomskk> :o
[17:45] <Endeavour> Depends on the whole legality of it all.
[17:45] <Endeavour> And if I can rig up a proper radio without needing to get a HAM License.
[17:46] <edmoore> Endeavour: where are you based?
[17:46] <Endeavour> Texas
[17:46] <Randomskk> you can use radios to receive without a license
[17:46] <edmoore> pah everything is legal in Texas
[17:46] <Endeavour> Hah
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: unless they (in the UK) recieve licensed television programme services.
[17:46] <edmoore> they fly whatever they like in the US
[17:47] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: are you saying I need a TV license for my amateur radio? :P
[17:47] <Endeavour> We'll see edmoore.
[17:47] <Randomskk> Endeavour: seriously the law is way more lenient for you than over here
[17:47] <Endeavour> I'm going to make a wireless sensor array first in the coming months.
[17:47] <Endeavour> I'll figure out the rest later.
[17:48] <jcoxon> Endeavour, certainly hang around on this channel, there are a few launches coming up
[17:48] <Endeavour> Randomskk: I suspect so. Either way, my primary concern is safety. The chances of it hitting someone are pretty slim, but I want to make sure it's pretty close to 0.
[17:49] <Endeavour> Err.
[17:49] <Endeavour> As close to 0 as possible, rather.
[17:49] <Randomskk> well usually a parachute is sufficient there
[17:49] <Randomskk> so it can hit someone and not instagib them
[17:49] <Randomskk> also you are in texas
[17:49] <Randomskk> the entire state is bigger and less populated than the UK basically?
[17:49] <Endeavour> Sure, but if the parachute fails or gets tangled, could be a problem.
[17:50] <Endeavour> I also don't want to lose hundreds of dollars in electronics.
[17:50] <edmoore> thicker skulls
[17:50] <Endeavour> Randomskk: Correct.
[17:50] <Randomskk> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/predict/ is some landing prediction
[17:50] <Randomskk> just check it won't fly over any major cities
[17:50] <Randomskk> bbl dinner
[17:53] <Endeavour> Heh
[17:53] <Endeavour> Launch out of Cambridge today and you end up in the Netherlands
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[17:54] <edmoore> http://www.cuspaceflight.co.uk/hourly-predictions
[17:55] <edmoore> blergh
[17:55] <edmoore> jcoxon: bring the launch forwards and we can bomb Maastright
[17:55] <edmoore> the payload should have a sign on it saying 'Treaty this, bitches'
[17:55] <edmoore> or somesuch
[17:56] <jcoxon> hehe
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[17:57] <edmoore> this is the longest period of poor jetstream since I've been involved with HAB
[17:58] <jcoxon> its pretty bad
[17:58] <Endeavour> You guys using high power radios for communications?
[17:59] <edmoore> limited to 10mW
[17:59] <Endeavour> 10mW?!
[17:59] <edmoore> correct
[17:59] <Endeavour> That's nothing!
[17:59] <Endeavour> Do you just give chase to keep in contact with it?
[17:59] <edmoore> interestingly, it is also plenty
[17:59] <Endeavour> Really?
[18:00] <jcoxon> current record for reception is 419km :-D
[18:00] <edmoore> i.e. on the last launch (*or nearly last launch) people were getting 400km decoding with a yagi
[18:00] <Endeavour> Interesting.
[18:00] <Endeavour> Here we're limited to 1W.
[18:00] <edmoore> It shows how spoilt hams normally are, I think :) Line of Sight makes all the difference
[18:00] <Endeavour> And those devices claim 40 miles line of sight.
[18:01] <Endeavour> About 64km max.
[18:01] <edmoore> well, with 10mW, we obviously can't slack on our radio link
[18:01] <edmoore> so we're talking really low baud rates (50 baud rtty typically)
[18:02] <edmoore> most of those off-the-shelf devices have much hgiher data rates
[18:07] <aLeXBrEtOn_> sent snail mail to BAE Systems begging for money
[18:08] <DanielRichman> 50baud is plenty though too; telemetry string every 15s is fine
[18:08] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, have you done the OR application yet?
[18:08] <aLeXBrEtOn_> after mox
[18:08] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, steve said they'll have PLENTY of cash to spare this year
[18:08] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, sooner = better, get to work
[18:08] <aLeXBrEtOn_> omnomnom
[18:08] <aLeXBrEtOn_> ALIEN 1 is paid for
[18:08] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, so?
[18:08] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, more money = more flights, more gadgets...
[18:09] <aLeXBrEtOn_> well, until we launch we don't *need* more money
[18:09] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, if we get money from BAE AND reading, even better
[18:09] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, need money? NEED MONEY?
[18:09] <aLeXBrEtOn_> it's not urgent
[18:09] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, however the ORs do have a deadline
[18:09] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, do you know when the deadline is?
[18:09] <aLeXBrEtOn_> ye April
[18:09] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, hah okey then. Just don't you dare forget
[18:09] <aLeXBrEtOn_> my brain doesn't think ahead to that level
[18:10] <aLeXBrEtOn_> it's just too far in the future to be classified as important
[18:10] <aLeXBrEtOn_> may as well be in 4 billion years :P
[18:18] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, so when is the importance cut off?
[18:19] <aLeXBrEtOn_> more than 2 weeks
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[18:25] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, that's way too high
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[19:12] <rjharrison> just got into france on 80m
[19:13] <rjharrison> Yo edmoore
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[19:13] <edmoore> hello
[19:13] Nick change: hsmith_ -> hsmith
[19:13] <edmoore> warning: about about to disappear
[19:13] <rjharrison> Hows it going
[19:13] <edmoore> how are things?
[19:13] <rjharrison> Did you enjoy avatar?
[19:13] <rjharrison> Good just very busy with the new house
[19:13] <rjharrison> fount 5 mins to play radio today
[19:13] <edmoore> yes not bad, but pretty busy. seems like life is charging headlong towards always having stuff to do. I'm not sure I like it
[19:14] <edmoore> are cool - france then?
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[19:14] <rjharrison> and put up my new HF vertical
[19:14] <rjharrison> Furtest was russia on 20m 1500 km
[19:14] <edmoore> wow not bad
[19:15] <rjharrison> Yep a good start for a pole in the backgarden
[19:15] <Randomskk> man, I really wanna get an HF antenna setup
[19:15] <rjharrison> edmoore, http://www.snowdonia-radio-company.co.uk/ourshop/prod_514853-SRC-X80-Vertical-Multiband-HF-antenna.html
[19:15] <rjharrison> This is the vertical
[19:16] <rjharrison> Randomskk, it's good fun
[19:16] <edmoore> very nice
[19:16] <rjharrison> I'm getting a bit of practice in for the trans atlantic
[19:16] <rjharrison> edmoore not bad for 50 notes
[19:17] <rjharrison> Even works in the cold :)
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[19:18] <rjharrison> I'm going to do a bit of work on the XML format for the listener tonight
[19:18] <rjharrison> Trying to get cutom fileds auto recognised and stored in the DB as well as being passed
[19:18] <rjharrison> custon
[19:18] <rjharrison> custom I'll get there in the end
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[19:19] <edmoore> right popping out for dinner. will be online later
[19:19] <edmoore> sorry to have to dash
[19:20] <rjharrison> edmoore np laters
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[20:28] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:32] <aLeXBrEtOn_> bong swa
[20:37] <jcoxon> evening alex
[20:39] <aLeXBrEtOn_> how are you doing?
[20:41] <jcoxon> good thanks
[20:41] <jcoxon> might need to recruit you for next weekend in case we need to recruit some ham operators :-)
[20:45] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, you need to write "the essential HAB phrasebook"
[20:45] <aLeXBrEtOn_> haha
[20:46] <aLeXBrEtOn_> jcoxon: I'm not a ham ;-)
[20:46] <aLeXBrEtOn_> just a translator
[20:46] <DanielRichman> read: linguistical ninja
[20:46] <aLeXBrEtOn_> OK then
[20:47] <jcoxon> :-p
[20:50] <aLeXBrEtOn_> read official homework helper
[20:51] <aLeXBrEtOn_> I ought to have a business card with that on
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[20:55] <DanielRichman> aLeXBrEtOn_, haha, true
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[21:09] <MikeMc68> yo
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[21:29] <jcoxon> http://www.onlineradio.fr/news-radioamateur/ballon-halo4-sur-le-depart-info-de-james-coxon-m6jcx/#comments
[21:29] <jcoxon> :-p
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[21:30] <natrium42> whoa
[21:30] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, are you a full-licensed HAM?
[21:32] <jcoxon> no
[21:33] <jcoxon> just foundation
[21:33] <jcoxon> M6JCX
[21:34] <edmoore> hi all
[21:34] <edmoore> rjharrison: back
[21:34] <MikeMc68> hi ed
[21:40] <jcoxon> some how i've managed to make BH4 heavier then BH3
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[21:58] <jcoxon> guys, what sort of loss do you get with RG58 over say 10m?
[22:05] <DanielRichman> huge losses iirc
[22:06] <DanielRichman> jcoxon, http://www.ocarc.ca/coax.htm
[22:07] <jcoxon> hmm, not great is it
[22:07] <edmoore> you loose half your power
[22:08] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/sets/72157623226106480/
[22:08] <jcoxon> pics
[22:10] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: nice work
[22:11] <Laurenceb> going to use a larger orifice this time?
[22:11] <Laurenceb> so we get some fairly significant loss of buoyancy
[22:12] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: whats your ballast drop technique?
[22:12] <edmoore> giigle at all of the above
[22:12] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, as in mechanism or logic?
[22:12] <edmoore> giggle*
[22:12] <jcoxon> edmoore, :-)
[22:12] <Laurenceb> logic
[22:13] <Laurenceb> I was thinking PID control isnt insane
[22:13] <Laurenceb> just cant have a -ive ballast drop rate
[22:14] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, hmmm with BH4 the aim is not to maintain altitude with the ballast drops but to test them
[22:14] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/m926cad6
[22:14] <Laurenceb> fairdoos
[22:14] <jcoxon> so the flight computer waits for a float and then dumps ballast, waits for a float - dumps - repeat
[22:14] <jcoxon> also it has emergency dumps in case we don't achive float
[22:14] <Laurenceb> ok, sounds sane
[22:15] <jcoxon> edmoore, i think the hourly prediction runs is borken
[22:15] <jcoxon> broken*
[22:15] <jcoxon> as its predicting march launches
[22:15] <Laurenceb> ^ thats some code demonstrating what I was thinking of
[22:16] <jcoxon> oh i see
[22:16] <edmoore> it means feburary
[22:16] <edmoore> ]
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[22:16] <jcoxon> to get that sort of situation Laurenceb we'd need to survive the night i think
[22:16] <Laurenceb> yeah probably
[22:16] <jcoxon> as in we don't really lose altitude in the same way
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[23:39] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: better idea for airspeed: two PT100 sensors
[23:40] <Laurenceb> I think they can be setup with an opamp to stabilise with a small difference in temperature between them
[23:40] <Laurenceb> so air temperature is calibrated out
[23:47] <juxta> morning all
[23:50] <MikeMc68> morning
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[23:59] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: sounds possible
[00:00] --- Mon Feb 1 2010