highaltitude.log.20100129

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[10:05] <MikeMc68> morning
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[11:46] <Laurenceb> hello
[11:52] <MikeMc68> hi Laurance
[11:58] <Laurenceb> my solder station cleared customs
[11:59] Action: Laurenceb is excited
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[12:00] <Laurenceb> one of these http://www.justblair.co.uk/the-kada-852-smt-solderstation.html
[12:02] <MikeMc68> looks nice
[12:02] <MikeMc68> and also heavy
[12:03] Action: SpeedEvil sings "It's not that heavy. (It's my soldering station)"
[12:04] <MikeMc68> lol
[12:04] <MikeMc68> eBay?
[12:07] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:07] <Laurenceb> EMS shipping is quite impressive
[12:07] <MikeMc68> Cool
[12:07] <Laurenceb> it will have travelled about 10miles by road once it arrives
[12:08] <Laurenceb> direct plane from china
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[12:23] <MikeMc68> i get stuff from China a lot via EMS - they seem pretty reliable
[13:07] <Laurenceb> very impressively flight route
[13:07] <Laurenceb> from the factories nearest airport to my nearest one
[13:50] <Laurenceb> http://www.space.com/news/obama-nasa-space-plan-reactions-100128.html
[13:50] <Laurenceb> never saw that coming
[13:54] <Xenion> Laurenceb, i did
[13:54] <Xenion> time for the GLXP
[14:11] <Laurenceb> I was being ironic :P
[14:12] <Xenion> :P
[14:13] Action: Laurenceb got the parts for his reflow oven
[14:14] <Laurenceb> well - the actual heating elements
[14:14] <Laurenceb> Im still trying to find a <200mm long IR linear halogen
[14:14] <Laurenceb> http://www.lamps-on-line.com/cgi-bin/gl_products.pl?INFRARED|QUARTZINFRARED-INDUSTRIALPROCESS
[14:14] <Laurenceb> theres those things but they dont have leads
[14:15] <Randomskk> I'm currently torn between trying to lay out paste by hand and getting a stencil made up for my motor controller
[14:15] <Laurenceb> http://www.rapidonline.com/sku/Electronic-Components/Integrated-Circuits/Sensors/MAX6674-Thermocouple-to-digital-converter-IC/77202/82-1022
[14:15] <Randomskk> still planning on reflowing on the kitchen hob for the time being but one of these days i wanna make some variety of reflow oven
[14:15] <Laurenceb> thats nice but silly price - not sure about maxims sample policy
[14:16] <Laurenceb> IMO youll be fine with laying out by hand
[14:16] <Laurenceb> I might use a stencil for an IMU as you might get better IC alignment
[14:16] <Laurenceb> Id be wary about reflowing expensive MEMS on a hob
[14:16] <Randomskk> the issue is mostly getting paste out just right onto the very tiny pads
[14:16] <Randomskk> ordered some fresh paste instead of this year-old-warm paste and a pretty fine nozzle
[14:17] <Laurenceb> QFN ?
[14:18] <Laurenceb> that can be a bit more fiddly to do by hand
[14:18] <Randomskk> mostly 0402 is the issue
[14:18] <Randomskk> also QFN though
[14:18] <Laurenceb> IIRC you can get mylar stencils for QFN
[14:18] <Randomskk> proper 0402 pads rather than the eagle default ones which are ginormous
[14:18] <Randomskk> there's this www.smtstencils.co.uk that'l do a stencil for £12
[14:18] <Laurenceb> ie you dont need a stencil making up for the whole pcb
[14:18] <Randomskk> but it's massive and I have a tiny PCB and not much use for panelising lots
[14:18] <Laurenceb> custom for the pcb?
[14:18] <Randomskk> oh, I see what you mean
[14:18] <Randomskk> yea, £12 for custom for a pcb
[14:19] <Randomskk> but getting one just for the QFN is an interesting idea
[14:19] <Laurenceb> Im sure Ive seen selections of QFN stencils in a little pack
[14:19] <Randomskk> would still rather get the 0402s done too
[14:19] <Laurenceb> for like £1
[14:19] <Randomskk> not sure what I'd use to spread the paste either
[14:19] <Laurenceb> cant remeber where, try ebay
[14:19] <Laurenceb> any sort of scraper
[14:20] <Randomskk> yea
[14:20] <Randomskk> will see how it goes with this new paste at any rate
[14:21] <Randomskk> QFNs will be much harder to remove bridges from
[14:21] <Randomskk> if I can't get it working I'll probably just buy a stencil anyway
[14:21] <Randomskk> and try to find something or other to spread it with. I think CUSF might have something
[14:22] <Laurenceb> I think they tried it by hand and had issues
[14:22] <Laurenceb> they have an x-ray
[14:22] <Randomskk> they do
[14:23] <Randomskk> they had a vinyl CNC cutter at one point and I think they used that to make a stencil
[14:23] <Laurenceb> solder paste tends to "clean itself up" as it reflows
[14:23] <Randomskk> yea
[14:23] <Randomskk> but not if there's too much of it
[14:23] <Laurenceb> but with QFN it can be tricky yes
[14:23] <Randomskk> which is typically the problem when applying by hand
[14:23] <Randomskk> since it's otherwise hard to get it to not just stick to the nozzle
[14:24] <Laurenceb> maybe a v small screwdriver
[14:24] <Laurenceb> to cut it off
[14:24] <Randomskk> industrially they just place paste with CNC don't they?
[14:24] <Laurenceb> or razor blade
[14:24] <Randomskk> yea, that might work
[14:24] <Laurenceb> usually stencils
[14:24] <Laurenceb> industrically
[14:24] <Randomskk> oh, really? for high volume?
[14:24] <Laurenceb> laser cut metal sheet
[14:24] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:24] <Randomskk> yea
[14:24] <Randomskk> fair enough
[14:24] <Randomskk> I have seen cnc paste dispensers though :p
[14:25] <Randomskk> usually combined with cnc glue dispensers and possibly pick and place machines
[14:25] <SpeedEvil> way too slow
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> I mean for real volume
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> A screen printer can do boards/minute, not minutes/board
[14:26] <Randomskk> true
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[14:48] <Laurenceb> thing is I've yet to see a toaster oven reflow that actually works well
[14:48] <Laurenceb> one US guy used a black a decker infrawave oven
[14:48] <Laurenceb> with has linear halogens
[14:48] <junderwood> I've tried the smtstencil.co.uk stencils and they work really well.
[14:48] <Laurenceb> so thats what I'm going to try and build from scratch
[14:48] <junderwood> with a cheap Argos toaster oven
[14:49] <junderwood> results look as good as industrially produced boards
[14:49] <Randomskk> junderwood: what else did you use with them?
[14:49] <Randomskk> e.g. to hold the stencil or scrape the paste
[14:49] <Laurenceb> yeah, but how badly do you stress the components
[14:49] <junderwood> old credit car to scrape the paste
[14:50] <Laurenceb> I want to try to at least try to follow the recommended temperature profile
[14:50] <junderwood> held the stencil down using vacuum through vias on the board
[14:50] <Laurenceb> neat
[14:50] <Laurenceb> I've gtg, cya
[14:50] <Randomskk> fair enough
[14:50] <Randomskk> brb
[14:50] <junderwood> I preheated the board to about 150 then zapped it until the solder reflowed. The allowed to cool slowly
[14:51] Nick change: Laurenceb -> Laurenceb_away
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[14:53] <jcoxon> afternoon all
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[18:27] <nblracer> hey
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[19:41] Action: SpeedEvil becomes confused over gnuplot again.
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> plot [0:1] x,10 works, plot 10,[0:1] x doesnot...
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[20:30] <jcoxon> evening all
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[20:36] <SpeedEvil> evening
[20:37] <jcoxon> hey SpeedEvil
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> hey.
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> Today I have been doing more wrestling with kitchen units. Meh.
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[21:20] <SpeedEvil> And doing the most pointless form of work on my diet. a wlog. http://www.mauve.plus.com/weight.gif
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[21:22] <SpeedEvil> Though it helped me learn about how to do fits.
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[22:06] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: lol
[22:06] <Laurenceb> tho thats not too overwieght
[22:06] <Laurenceb> or at all - unless you're quite short
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[22:22] <SpeedEvil> well - 175cm - I was BMI>30.
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> Aiming for ~75Kg
[22:39] <Laurenceb> I'm 74, 178cm
[22:41] <natrium42> you're all shorties :P
[22:41] <Laurenceb> heh
[22:41] <Laurenceb> I dont trust BMI
[22:42] <Laurenceb> you casn have high bmi and not be overwieght
[22:42] <Laurenceb> or the opposite
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> yes, it's a rough measure.
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[22:47] <SpeedEvil> But I would not argue at 96Kg with 'obese' - based on BMI>30
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[00:00] --- Sat Jan 30 2010