highaltitude.log.20100124

[00:04] <Laurenceb> then theres this
[00:04] <Laurenceb> http://uk.farnell.com/texas-instruments/cc1111f32rsp/transceiver-rf-with-mcu-36qfn/dp/1573890
[00:04] <Laurenceb> but 8dB less sensitivity
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[00:09] <Laurenceb> http://www.modula.si/cc_flasher/en
[00:09] <Laurenceb> looks good
[00:10] <Laurenceb> pity about the 8dB - with cc1020 the performances is comparible with ssb scanners
[00:13] <SpeedEvil1> Hmm. I was working with gnuplot - to plot some values of the accel data, when I was wondering why it wasn't working.
[00:14] <SpeedEvil1> Then I realised I was still ssh'd into the phone - and gnuplot was indeed on the display
[00:14] <Laurenceb> heh
[00:15] <Laurenceb> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6264042
[00:15] <Laurenceb> thats slightly cheaper
[00:15] <SpeedEvil1> Interesting - a splot of 10000 points actually does look like it describes a sphere quite well
[00:15] <Laurenceb> should do - if you hold it steady
[00:15] <SpeedEvil1> which of course should be obvious - but that it's responsive when rotating the graph :)
[00:15] <Laurenceb> that octave code I posted uses newton-raphson to fit a spheroid
[00:16] <SpeedEvil1> yeah - I need to try that.
[00:17] <SpeedEvil1> After I work out something better to sample with than while true;do cat accel >>~/log;done
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[00:44] <juxta> Laurenceb, SpeedEvil: have either of you used GPS onboard in rockets before?
[00:46] <SpeedEvil> no.
[00:46] <SpeedEvil> edmoore might have
[00:46] <SpeedEvil> IIRC
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[01:00] <juxta> alrighty, I'll ask him SpeedEvil
[01:00] <juxta> just wondering if modules would usually lose lock during launch
[01:00] <juxta> 75G
[01:00] <SpeedEvil> often, yes
[01:00] <juxta> ~75g
[01:01] <SpeedEvil> they are specced to a given accel, and jerk, and the loop filters are tuned so that it optimises performance below that.
[01:01] <SpeedEvil> expect most to lose lock.
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[01:08] <juxta> SpeedEvil: fair enough
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[01:47] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[01:47] <SpeedEvil> The accelleration of gravity next to my sofa is 9.2m/s^2
[01:47] <SpeedEvil> :)
[01:49] <Randomskk> that's a pretty significant difference from the normally quoted 9.81 near the surface of the earth
[01:49] <Randomskk> are you actually living in a HAB?
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> Apparantly.
[01:50] <Randomskk> for that matter, I wonder what g is on a HAB
[01:50] <SpeedEvil> Either that, or my phone is inaccurate.
[01:50] <Randomskk> nah, the phone definitely can't be inaccurate!
[01:50] <SpeedEvil> radius of earth is 6000km
[01:50] <Randomskk> yea
[01:50] <Randomskk> I can't imagine 30km makes much odds
[01:50] <SpeedEvil> so - it drops off by 2/6000 or so per km
[01:50] <SpeedEvil> so 60/6000 at 30km - or 1%
[01:50] <Randomskk> about 0.01 for 30km
[01:50] <SpeedEvil> which is more than I'd thought
[01:50] <Randomskk> 9.80 then :P
[01:51] <Randomskk> oh, right, 1% not 1/100
[01:51] <Randomskk> well 1/100 * 9.81 anyway
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[06:01] <juxta> anybody up yet? :)
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[09:19] <MikeMc68> morning all
[09:20] <MikeMc68> Anybody seen this - http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=1053 ?
[09:55] <Twiner> At least it's cheap. (:
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[10:56] <juxta_> hi all
[10:58] <Laurenceb> hi
[10:58] <Laurenceb> edmoore: which chipcon IC do you use on badger cub?
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[11:34] <edmoore> Laurenceb: I think you ask this about once a month :p
[11:34] <edmoore> cc1111
[11:43] <MikeMc68> Howdy everqyone
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[12:44] <Laurenceb> ah ok
[12:45] <Laurenceb> annoyingly it doesnt seem to allow reading of the raw ADC data
[12:45] <Laurenceb> thatd be nice
[12:48] <Laurenceb> also the sensitivty is 8dB less than the cc1020 - presumably better LNA on the 1020
[12:49] <Laurenceb> so looks like 1020 + AT90USB is the best bet for a USB stick
[12:49] <Laurenceb> do you know about this? http://www.modula.si/cc_flasher/en
[12:49] <Laurenceb> IIRC you got an expensive programmer
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[18:14] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:14] <russss> morning :P
[18:15] <jcoxon> hey russss hows the states?
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[19:07] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[19:07] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[19:07] <edmoore> anything much happening?
[19:08] <jcoxon> nah, not much recently
[19:08] <jcoxon> been busy with work etc
[19:08] <edmoore> yeah
[19:08] <edmoore> same
[19:08] <jcoxon> though having a build weekend on BH4 next weekend
[19:08] <edmoore> I got some carbon-fibre honeycomb panel for hobble on friday
[19:08] <jcoxon> plan to complete it
[19:08] <edmoore> that has sort of spurred me on to get it all built
[19:08] <jcoxon> oooo now thats very cool
[19:08] <jcoxon> yay
[19:09] <edmoore> it's gorgeous stuff
[19:09] <jcoxon> also trying to organise a trans-a meeting :-p
[19:09] <edmoore> just got the email
[19:09] <edmoore> I think I can do thursday
[19:09] <jcoxon> great
[19:10] <edmoore> btw - html5 beta on youtube is great
[19:10] <edmoore> means you can watch a youtube video without an entire cpu core being locked up
[19:10] <jcoxon> on safari?
[19:10] <jcoxon> won't work on firefox i've heard
[19:11] <edmoore> safari and chrome work
[19:11] <edmoore> yep, firefox doesn't
[19:11] <jcoxon> :-(
[19:11] <Randomskk> h264 only, which firefox won't support due to patent issues
[19:11] <Randomskk> shame really
[19:11] <Randomskk> html5 was gonna specify an encoding to use as standard but couldn't agree on one so didn't
[19:12] <jcoxon> something will be worked out eventually
[19:12] <Randomskk> firefox wants to use ogg theora as it's f/oss, youtube wants to use h264 as it's better than ogg theora
[19:20] <jcoxon> bbl
[19:29] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if fennec does it
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[21:27] <Laurenceb> edmoore: where did you buy the honeycomb from?
[21:27] <edmoore> donated
[21:27] <edmoore> no way I could afford that stuff!
[21:27] <Randomskk> what's the budget like for 4th year projects, anyway?
[21:28] <edmoore> almost nothing from the department
[21:28] <Randomskk> suck
[21:28] <edmoore> depends on the inidividual funding of supervusors. they're such diverse beasts (4th year projects) that i can't really give you an answer
[21:28] <Randomskk> fair enough
[21:29] <edmoore> so you could be doing some project sponsored by shell as part of some kind of drilling technologyu and have a bottomless pit of money
[21:29] <edmoore> or you could be doing some little thing in matlab and spend £10 in total
[21:30] <Randomskk> fair enough
[21:30] <Randomskk> so just need to get a giant corporation to sponsor the project then :P
[21:30] <edmoore> uhuh
[21:32] <Laurenceb> I found some fairly chap stuff on a few webstores
[21:33] <Laurenceb> was looking for some to use in a spin stabilied rockoon/n-prize launcher
[21:33] <edmoore> all depends on how well its made, the epoxies and so on
[21:33] <edmoore> this was some pretty high grade stuff from hexcel research site
[21:33] <Laurenceb> neat
[21:33] <Laurenceb> alu core?
[21:34] <edmoore> nope, nomex
[21:34] <Laurenceb> interesting
[21:34] <edmoore> i'm not sure i like the differential coef. expansion for cf/ali in a hab application
[21:35] <Laurenceb> yeah - also nomex seems to be easier to source
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[21:35] <Laurenceb> - I could find it at affordable prices online - not so for ali
[21:36] <jcoxon> evening all
[21:37] <Laurenceb> http://dragonplate.com/ecart/categories.asp?cID=110
[21:37] <Laurenceb> not that bad for small stuff
[21:37] <Laurenceb> hi jcoxon
[21:37] <Laurenceb> are the altantic halo envelope specs up online?
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[21:38] <edmoore> my stuff is roughly double the thickness of that
[21:39] <edmoore> though i need to actually check precisely what it is
[21:39] <Laurenceb> http://dragonplate.com/ecart/product.asp?pID=4352&cID=111
[21:39] <Laurenceb> 0.5x6x6 '', $37 for textured finish
[21:40] <edmoore> have got three 30" square panels, roughly
[21:40] <edmoore> should be plenty
[21:40] <Laurenceb> but I found a considerably cheaper place... stupid disorganised bookmarks
[21:40] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, some of it
[21:40] <jcoxon> on the wiki
[21:40] <Laurenceb> heh thats just a bit :P
[21:40] <juxta> morning all
[21:41] <Laurenceb> evening :D
[21:41] <juxta> hehe
[21:41] <edmoore> hi jasonb
[21:41] <edmoore> juxta, even
[21:42] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, edmoore is weds okay for trans-a meeting?
[21:42] <Laurenceb> ok, in the evening
[21:42] <edmoore> should be yeop
[21:42] <edmoore> yep
[21:42] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: I got in touch with Rodger Farley
[21:43] <Laurenceb> the full sim code cant be released due to license faff
[21:43] <Laurenceb> but hes happy to help and run our balloon through the sim code and report back
[21:43] <Laurenceb> thats why I was asking about envelope specs
[21:43] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, oh wow - right well we should get onto Mark then
[21:43] <Laurenceb> do you know what thickness polythene its made from?
[21:44] <jcoxon> i don't
[21:44] <Laurenceb> we should be able to work it out from mass and area
[21:44] <jcoxon> let me do some searching
[21:45] <jcoxon> so here is the basic info: http://spacenear.us/wiki/doku.php?id=balloon:information
[21:45] <Laurenceb> is it "balloon shaped" or not?
[21:45] <jcoxon> just searching my inbox
[21:45] <jcoxon> ummmm they are identical to snox balloons
[21:46] Action: Laurenceb kicks flash video
[21:46] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/spiritofknoxville/
[21:46] <Laurenceb> ta
[21:46] <juxta> have their been any trans-a attempts by ukhas? I remember seeing some flight paths somewhere a while ago..
[21:47] <jcoxon> juxta, none yet
[21:47] <juxta> hmm, thats what I thought. don't remember what it was I saw - some sort of blog, with flight paths drawn in blue on maps
[21:47] <Laurenceb> http://www.flickr.com/photos/spiritofknoxville/2198935546/
[21:47] <Laurenceb> looks like a tetroon
[21:47] <edmoore> http://www.flickr.com/photos/spiritofknoxville/2198937612/
[21:47] <edmoore> see, that's a proper mission control
[21:48] <edmoore> none of this panels of buttons and projectors bollocks
[21:48] <Laurenceb> needs my usb stick transceiver
[21:48] <edmoore> just a comfy seat
[21:48] <jcoxon> pah edmoore our BH2 mission control was the best
[21:49] <edmoore> i think xaben 1 / icaruss 3 had it for best listening station
[21:49] <Laurenceb> hmm I guess a tetroon beats a tube
[21:49] <Laurenceb> but the sim code is designed around a teardrop
[21:49] <edmoore> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4082923928/
[21:49] <edmoore> and the sexy trackatron http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4082160869/in/photostream/
[21:49] <Laurenceb> - it sims all the internal IR emission etc and works out equilibrium temperature/superheating
[21:50] <jcoxon> fair enough
[21:50] <Laurenceb> ah nice stuff edmoore
[21:50] <jcoxon> edmoore, we had all those macs and also pints remember
[21:51] <edmoore> actually yes, i forgot the pints
[21:51] <edmoore> you raise a good pint
[21:51] <edmoore> point*
[21:51] <Laurenceb> I think a tetroon should run in the sim reasonably well
[21:52] <jcoxon> edmoore, hehe
[21:52] <edmoore> i like this photo http://www.flickr.com/photos/spiritofknoxville/2080395251/
[21:53] <Laurenceb> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3887463146/sizes/l/
[21:53] <Laurenceb> whats the IC to the right of the badger2 on the silkscreen?
[21:53] <edmoore> AD<something> 70G accelerometer
[21:54] <Laurenceb> oh nice
[21:54] <Laurenceb> and above it magno and opamp?
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[21:54] <edmoore> no
[21:54] <edmoore> 3 axis accel and adc
[21:54] <juxta> is the GPS on the badger2 true 10hz, or extrapolated?
[21:55] <Laurenceb> ah
[21:55] <edmoore> it's a load of crap
[21:55] <edmoore> don't tbother
[21:55] <edmoore> get a ublox
[21:55] <Laurenceb> semi extrapolated
[21:55] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:55] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, bingo "0.00075" thick polyethylene high altitude balloons and that they are very delicate. Request an x-ray inspection (worked for me going into Toron"
[21:55] <Laurenceb> not literal x-ray
[21:55] <Laurenceb> :P
[21:55] <Laurenceb> that er... would help much
[21:55] <jcoxon> oh that was about custom
[21:55] <Laurenceb> *wouldnt
[21:55] <jcoxon> s
[21:56] <Laurenceb> ah
[21:56] <jcoxon> apparently often they mistake hte balloon as packing and cut it
[21:57] <Laurenceb> interesting
[21:57] <Laurenceb> in my experience most packages arent opened
[21:58] <Laurenceb> another odd thing - for calculating VAT - they use the insurance form or something, so if theres no info or fake values provided, whos to tell what the VAT should be?
[21:58] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, this was between the states and canada
[21:58] <Laurenceb> ah
[21:58] Action: Laurenceb is wondering if we could assemble the entire payload in the UK and ship it to canada
[22:00] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, natrium is pretty nifty at assembly
[22:01] <juxta> this is the one I meant: http://arhab.blogspot.com/
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[22:01] <juxta> (found it eventually)
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[22:02] <jcoxon> yeah they've launched a few though don't really advertise
[22:02] <jcoxon> so don't get such good tracking
[22:03] <jcoxon> okay i've updarted the balloon page
[22:04] <jcoxon> also uploaded the filling guide done by Mark and hte Snox team
[22:05] <Laurenceb> assmebly is a bit tricky as we have to worry about temperature and RFI a lot
[22:05] <jonsowman> oh whoops
[22:05] <jonsowman> hi edmoore
[22:06] <edmoore> hello. and no, i haven't yet. sorry
[22:06] <jonsowman> haha thats alright, dont worry
[22:06] <Laurenceb> I'm sure natrium can do it, its just the order we assemble things and so on
[22:06] <edmoore> will do it tomorrow, promise
[22:06] <jonsowman> not a problem, was just wondering :)
[22:06] <jonsowman> you planning on going to wednesdays meeting?
[22:06] <Laurenceb> could get a little fiddly to work out how everything gets assembled
[22:07] <jcoxon> well we could make everything modular
[22:07] <Laurenceb> we dont want to end up sending stuff back and forth to canada
[22:07] <edmoore> i have two hab meetings on wednesday now
[22:07] <edmoore> but i think so, to both
[22:07] <jcoxon> but i guess we lose a lot of the heating from the radio
[22:07] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, something to discuss on weds
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[22:09] <MikeMc68> Hi everyone
[22:09] <jcoxon> hey MikeMc68
[22:10] <MikeMc68> What's new?
[22:10] <jcoxon> has been quite quiet recently
[22:11] <edmoore> crappy winter jetstream
[22:13] <jcoxon> indeed
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[22:14] <juxta> predictions are looking pretty rubbish here for the next few days
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[22:15] <juxta> so even if CASA do give me approval, looks like i'll be waiting a while
[22:15] <MikeMc68> bummer
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[23:09] <Laurenceb> jcxoon: I think we want to use come copper foil
[23:09] <Laurenceb> to keep the crazy RF power out of the tronics area
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> a couple of layers of Al works fine
[23:11] <Laurenceb> or that yes
[23:11] <Laurenceb> but ideally it needs to be grounded
[23:11] <jcoxon> how about space blanket?
[23:11] <jcoxon> can that be used?
[23:12] <SpeedEvil> not really
[23:12] <edmoore> it doesn't really need to be grounded
[23:12] <SpeedEvil> it has a scky ohms/square
[23:12] <Laurenceb> yeah actually
[23:12] <edmoore> the eddy currents generated by a few parallel layers dissipates loads of the rf energy
[23:12] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:12] <Laurenceb> but it really helps to avoid seperate sections
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> what is the power?
[23:13] <Laurenceb> tricky with ali foil
[23:13] <Laurenceb> 1W or so
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> oh - I suppose it's GPS
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> I mean - GPS is the concern in that it's an undocumented box
[23:13] <Laurenceb> undocumented?
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> in terms of jam performance.
[23:14] <Laurenceb> ah
[23:14] <Laurenceb> well its 10MHz
[23:14] <Laurenceb> but the harmonics could interfere
[23:14] <Laurenceb> also the 10mhz could seep into the dsp and stuff
[23:15] <Laurenceb> and jam up the gps with that much rf floating about
[23:15] <Laurenceb> only one way to find out
[23:16] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: so its 0.75mil thick polythene - thats neat as the nasa code is for 0.8mil polythene
[23:17] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, 0.00075? is what i found in one of my emails
[23:17] <Laurenceb> in inches
[23:17] <Laurenceb> thats 0.75mil in us units
[23:20] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:25] <jcoxon> right work tomorrow, night all
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[23:27] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: fun - http://www.mauve.plus.com/accel-orientations
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> The datasheet is horrible
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> it doesn't make any mention of noise.
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> There is significant noise - enough that in many apps - the 16mg/bit quantisation dissapears.
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[23:28] <SpeedEvil> (time,ignore,x,y,z)
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> need to try fitting that to spheroid
[23:28] <Laurenceb> fish...?
[23:28] <Laurenceb> :P
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> err
[23:28] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/code:fit
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> that was a 'is this working'
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> ah - yes - that's where it went
[23:29] <Laurenceb> top couple of lines need alterning
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[23:30] <SpeedEvil> hmm - it seems to be doing some wierd decimaty shit. Ah - forgot to switch it into 'fast' mode.
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> actually - I should see what this mode is like
[23:36] <Laurenceb> seems to be converging
[23:36] <Laurenceb> v slow with that much data
[23:36] <Laurenceb> yeah its converged by a few orders of mag now
[23:38] <SpeedEvil> was just working out if gnuplot can do fit to spheroid. I have come to the conclusion that I need sleep first.
[23:38] <Laurenceb> pretty cool as I gave it no clue of the bias and scale factors
[23:39] <SpeedEvil> the slow mode seems to be ~ 1 bit of noise most the time - the fast mode has enough noise that it's dithered.
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> But there seems to be a large signal at ~1hz - which is unfortunate. But still - ~3mg or so is more-or-less achievable over a couple of seconds.
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> I need to fft it properly.
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> Any progress on the rolago?
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> Or just waiting for a flight
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> Night all!
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[23:43] <Laurenceb> cya
[23:43] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: I'm more interested in full blown UAV stuff atm
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:44] <Laurenceb> will launch it if I can work out some nice improvements
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> That is shiny - but somewhat harder. Though easier in other ways
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> and really going to sleep.
[23:45] <Laurenceb> cya
[23:45] <Laurenceb> more importantly - I can sell it
[23:45] <Laurenceb> I want to get a USB comm stick and UAV board it can talk to
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[00:00] --- Mon Jan 25 2010