highaltitude.log.20100121

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[04:40] <rjharrison_> Morning/Evening all
[04:49] <bittwist> hello
[04:50] <rjharrison_> bit early here
[04:51] <rjharrison_> juxta_ You awake over there?
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[10:57] <juxta_> hi edmoore, Laurenceb
[10:57] <edmoore> hi juxta_
[10:57] <edmoore> how are things?
[10:57] <juxta_> ahh not too bad
[10:58] <Laurenceb> hi
[10:58] <juxta_> asides from CASA taking forever to give me approval
[10:58] <Laurenceb> :-/
[10:58] <juxta_> I was hoping to launch last Sunday, they didn't get things done in time
[10:58] <juxta_> now it looks like this Sunday is a no go too
[11:00] <juxta_> how about yourself edmoore?
[11:01] <juxta_> I was going to ask if you guys knew who maintained the CUSF predictor website too
[11:25] <edmoore> juxta_: sorry, got called away
[11:25] <edmoore> i'm well thanks
[11:25] <edmoore> the predictor website actually has several people working on it
[11:25] <edmoore> and various *alpha* version 2s floating around our webspace
[11:25] <edmoore> for example, have you seen cuspaceflight.co.uk/hourly-predictions?
[11:26] <edmoore> that's the launch location for a launch every hour on the hour for the next 5 days
[11:26] <edmoore> for a given set of launch and burst paramaters
[11:28] <edmoore> juxta_: rjw's very alpha new version is here http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/predict_rjw/
[11:28] <edmoore> you can see it's currently missing things like launch times. but it gives you an idea of what there is going to be on the new version
[11:40] <jonsowman> hi edmoore
[11:42] <edmoore> hi jonsowman
[11:42] <jonsowman> how was the meeting yesterday?
[11:42] <edmoore> i was in london
[11:42] <jonsowman> sorry we couldnt make it - report deadlines...
[11:42] <jonsowman> oh right
[11:42] <edmoore> it's OK - the beginning of this term is *busy*
[11:42] <Randomskk> otoh report is now "glued" into lab books with blue electrical tape
[11:43] <edmoore> terms are in general. the academic year that was about 1.5 years go, we didn't launch a single balloon
[11:43] <jonsowman> ah right
[11:43] <edmoore> then did about 4 or 5 in that summer
[11:43] <jonsowman> :) nice one
[11:43] <jonsowman> hows the buspirate
[11:43] <edmoore> ah yes
[11:43] <jonsowman> need to grab that off you at some point lol
[11:43] <edmoore> subtle reminder there
[11:43] <edmoore> yes
[11:43] <jonsowman> haha
[11:43] <edmoore> i have them here
[11:43] <jonsowman> dont worry im not in any desperate need
[11:43] <edmoore> maybe i could leave them in the lab?
[11:44] <jonsowman> you at eng atm by any chance?
[11:44] <edmoore> nope
[11:44] <edmoore> there are too many research associates making coffee during the mornings for me to get any work done in the lab
[11:44] <edmoore> so i'm going in this afternoon
[11:44] <jonsowman> haha ok
[11:44] <jonsowman> if you could leave the BP in the lab that'd be great
[11:44] <jonsowman> cheers
[11:45] <edmoore> np, i will tell you when they're there
[11:45] <jonsowman> thanks :)
[11:51] <juxta_> hey edmoore, sorry, I was eating/working
[11:51] <edmoore> np - did you see the relevant links?
[11:51] <juxta_> yeah I did - I had seen the hourly one in use
[11:52] <juxta_> but noth the other
[11:52] <juxta_> not the other*
[11:52] <edmoore> i like the hourly one, i have been using it quite a lot recently
[11:52] <juxta_> edmoore: am I able to use it? or does it only work for UK sites?
[11:53] <edmoore> rjw has done a nice job. unfortunately, as a research associate he actually has a job to do, so he can't spend too long on cusf stuff
[11:53] <edmoore> juxta_: the hourly one?
[11:53] <juxta_> edmoore: yeah the hourly one
[11:53] <edmoore> i know rjw is working on sessions and logins and messing around with couchDB currently as a means of achieving this
[11:53] <edmoore> so i guess soon
[11:54] <juxta_> wow, that'd be brilliant :)
[11:54] <edmoore> currently the hourly parameters are defined in a .json that only people with write access to our server can edit
[11:54] <juxta_> ah righto
[11:56] <juxta_> edmoore: would it be possible to add a site to the drop down box on the current live one?
[11:56] <edmoore> juxta_: sure, give me a name and a set of co-ords
[11:57] <juxta_> edmoore: that'd be brilliant, just give me a moment :)
[12:00] <juxta_> edmoore: -34.9499, 138.5194, Adelaide Airport
[12:01] <juxta_> edmoore: our met bureau launch 2 balloons from there daily, which we've been chasing a bit of late :)
[12:14] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[12:18] <edmoore> juxta_: sorry! got called away again
[12:19] <edmoore> cuspaceflight.co.uk/predict
[12:19] <juxta_> no worries
[12:19] <juxta_> I have nothing better to do, I'm at work ;)
[12:19] <juxta_> (and it's almost 11pm, nothing happening here)
[12:19] <juxta_> thanks a bunch edmoore :D
[12:22] <edmoore> np
[12:23] <juxta_> are there any UK launches coming up soon by the way?
[12:23] <edmoore> probably one from us some weekend soon
[12:23] <edmoore> just another badger 2 flight
[12:23] <juxta_> also, got a bit of a question re inflation - I have a regulator and have made up a filler adapter, just a bit curious as to how long it takes to inflate the balloon
[12:24] <edmoore> depends on the flow obviously, but five to ten minutes usually including all the bouyancy testing
[12:24] <juxta_> my regulator has a flow rate gauge on it, it reads in L/min, with labels: 1 ... 2 .... 5 .... 10 .... 20 .... 30 ... infinite
[12:24] <juxta_> oh thats not too bad
[12:24] <edmoore> regulators have an annoying issue in that if there back pressure ( the low pressure side) is too low, they can go unstable and start buzzing and damaging themselves
[12:25] <juxta_> thats a pain
[12:25] <edmoore> so it helps to have a little back pressure - a long hose to the balloon, or a kink, or something
[12:25] <juxta_> maybe I should add a valve
[12:25] <juxta_> thanks for that, I'll check it out
[12:25] <edmoore> np
[12:25] <juxta_> will test it on an O2 cylinder and work out whats ideal
[12:25] <edmoore> often it's fine. we have one reg that is a lot more prone to it than the other
[12:25] <edmoore> it probably needs looking at, infact
[12:26] <juxta_> ah okay
[12:26] <juxta_> what's a cylinder of He worth over in the UK btw?
[12:26] <edmoore> lunch - bbiab
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> juxta_: It's one of the larger costs in launching a balloon.
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> typically
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> individual costs
[12:28] <juxta_> SpeedEvil: mine cost about 90GBP for 3.4m^3
[12:28] <juxta_> sound about right?
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> that sounds about right
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> I haven't priced any recently - but that's about what I remember
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> I was seriously considering hydrogen
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> Look on youtube.
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> The results of a hydrogen combustion in a weather balloon are rather boring.
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> Think bonfire of the same diameter for 1s, and bits of flaming plastic of the mass of the balloon thrown around at moederate speed
[12:37] <juxta_> SpeedEvil: I was also considering Hydrogen for the cost difference - I think it's about half the price here
[12:37] <juxta_> and so long as you dont mix it with air as you fill, I don't imagine it would be all that bad if you set it alight
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> yeah. It does have a wide flammability range.
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> So making sure there is no air in the balloon at the start is good.
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> IIRC as little as 6% air will support combustion
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[12:43] <juxta_> SpeedEvil: wow, that's not much
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[13:36] <MikeMc> WHy does everyone get logged out and then back in again from time to time? What is that all about?
[13:37] <Randomskk> netsplit
[13:37] <Randomskk> freenode is made up of many federated IRC servers
[13:37] <Randomskk> users join them depending on geolocation and server load
[13:37] <Randomskk> the servers pass all messages between each other
[13:37] <Randomskk> now and again a server loses its link to the network
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> Add to this ass-hats DDOSing the servers, and ...
[13:38] <Randomskk> yea
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> And admins accidentally klining everyone :)
[13:45] <MikeMc> lol
[14:19] <Randomskk> http://hackaday.com/2010/01/21/live-high-altitude-balloon-launch/
[14:20] <juxta_> oh god
[14:20] <juxta_> there's a photo of me
[14:20] <juxta_> wtf
[14:20] <Randomskk> :D
[14:21] <edmoore> :)
[14:21] <edmoore> looking good juxta_
[14:22] <juxta_> haha
[14:22] <juxta_> at least they plugged UKHAS :)
[14:22] <edmoore> yeah - nice one!
[14:24] <edmoore> juxta_: is that a DIY yagi?
[14:24] <juxta_> edmoore: yeah
[14:24] <edmoore> looks like you've done a beautiful job!
[14:25] <juxta_> that one's not mine, though I do have a similar one :)
[14:25] <juxta_> that belongs to VK5ZSN, the ham who I went balloon chasing with
[14:27] <edmoore> i think this photo (me in the drizzle) http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/3730471742/sizes/l/in/set-72157621083447545/ compared to your photo (sunglasses in collar) basically sums out why I want to move to australia.
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[14:27] <juxta_> haha
[14:27] <edmoore> greetings BobTBuilder
[14:27] <juxta_> you have a balloon to keep you dry
[14:28] <edmoore> ha, actually we launched in the pretty heavy rain a few weeks ago
[14:28] <edmoore> the balloon collects so much rain
[14:28] <BobTBuilder> hi,
[14:28] <juxta_> I can imagine
[14:28] <edmoore> and it comes gushing down the neck, without exaggeration it's like you've turned a tap on
[14:28] <edmoore> going down your collar and shoulder
[14:28] <juxta_> it probably doesnt help with bursting alt either I guess
[14:28] <edmoore> that one burst much earlier than expected, yes
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[14:30] <juxta_> hi BobTBuilder
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[14:52] <juxta_> hmm, I'm somewhat glad I moved the hosting for the blog away from my webserver running here on a 1mbit line
[14:53] <juxta_> there's been over 500mb of traffic in the last 20ish minutes, compared to pretty much 0 this time yesterday
[14:53] <SpeedEvil> why?
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[14:55] <juxta_> SpeedEvil: traffic from hackaday.com
[14:58] <MikeMc> what did you put on hackaday?
[14:59] <juxta_> they wrote about my blog and ukhas
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[15:05] <edmoore> think i might plug #highaltitude directly in the comments
[15:05] <juxta_> go for it
[15:05] <juxta_> i put it up on the frontpage of the blog too
[15:06] <edmoore> done
[15:07] <edmoore> (apologies for cuspaceflight in the signature - pagerank 'n' that)
[15:08] <juxta_> looks like it's gotta be moderated, dont see it there yet..
[15:08] <edmoore> ah yes - "Your comment is awaiting moderation."
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[15:32] <edmoore> greetings blomlet
[15:33] <edmoore> juxta_: how have you found the performance of the active copper loop on your yagi? you mentioned the shape was a bit suboptimal
[15:34] <juxta_> yeah it is edmoore
[15:34] <blomlet> greeting back this fine afternoon
[15:34] <juxta_> I have to get around to replacing it
[15:34] <juxta_> it works, but it's not brilliant
[15:34] <edmoore> blomlet: which bit of the world are you in, if you don't mind me asking?
[15:34] <blomlet> Tufnell Park
[15:34] <edmoore> ah right :)
[15:35] <edmoore> nice and easy then
[15:36] <blomlet> It is - was expecting snow according to the news last night
[15:38] <blomlet> I have a question on these latex balloons
[15:38] <blomlet> why not have 2 of them
[15:39] <blomlet> for a flight
[15:39] <blomlet> 1st one inflated as per std operating procedures
[15:39] <blomlet> will burst at 30kms
[15:40] <blomlet> 2nd one inflated to a percentage less than standard normal inflation
[15:40] <edmoore> blomlet: http://www.cuspaceflight.co.uk/media.php
[15:40] <blomlet> but capable of supporting the weight of the payload at 30kms when the 1st pops?
[15:40] <edmoore> check the 2nd video
[15:40] <edmoore> which is precisely what you are describing
[15:41] <blomlet> How much extra height did you get?
[15:41] <edmoore> well in that case we actually just wanted it to float
[15:41] <edmoore> so be carried up by the first, ditch it and then just hang about at about 30km
[15:42] <blomlet> cool - success?
[15:42] <edmoore> sort of. the winds were stronger than expected and it got to it's radius limit before we wanted, so it didn't have a chance to really do it's thing before the computer cut itself down
[15:42] <edmoore> but the ascent rate was roughly as expected
[15:42] <edmoore> the calculation of which is non-triv
[15:43] <blomlet> the 1st vid of raising the orange curtain is interesting
[15:44] <edmoore> so the objective of that was to damp out swinging about
[15:44] <edmoore> it was testing a star camera
[15:44] <edmoore> so the rotational rates had to be limited
[15:44] <juxta_> edmoore: did it work well?
[15:44] <blomlet> ah - equiv of a sea anchor then
[15:45] <edmoore> and it looks kind of like a medievil depiction of a comet too, which I like
[15:45] <edmoore> yeah, it really damped them out - you can see it's barely rotating at all, whereas a lot of balloon flights (as can be seen from onboard cmas) really swing about after launch
[15:45] <edmoore> they were quite draggy though
[15:45] <blomlet> slower ascent and lower burst height?
[15:46] <edmoore> same burst height
[15:46] <juxta_> more drift I guess
[15:46] <edmoore> that's not a function of drag
[15:46] <juxta_> ie from the wind
[15:46] <edmoore> woooo!
[15:46] <edmoore> have just nabbed some carbon fibre honeycomb sandwhich panel for Hobble
[15:47] <edmoore> no I can really make some hardware progress
[15:48] <edmoore> now*
[15:56] <juxta_> i'm off to bed all
[15:56] <juxta_> good night
[16:01] <edmoore> night juxta_
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[18:48] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:22] <jonsowman> evening
[19:22] <jcoxon> hey jonsowman
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[23:44] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: I was looking at commercial reflow ovens
[23:44] <Laurenceb> you can pick stuff up for a few hundered £ - not sure how good it is
[23:44] <Laurenceb> all seems to use halogen heat lamps
[23:45] <juxta> morning all
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> interensting
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[23:51] <Laurenceb> I was looking at tea caddies etc
[23:51] <Laurenceb> you can get some nice stainless containers with airtight doors quite cheaply
[23:51] <Laurenceb> maybe put a grill across the middle and a halogen bulb in the bottom
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> hmm
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[23:56] <juxta> does anybody remember those other australian guys who did a launch recently?
[00:00] --- Fri Jan 22 2010