highaltitude.log.20100118

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[12:39] <Laurenceb> hi
[12:39] <Laurenceb> anyone here worked with triacs?
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> yes
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> a bit
[12:41] <Laurenceb> Im thinking about toaster reflow
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> google moc3020 - and look at the datasheet
[12:41] <Laurenceb> do I need a triac output optoisolator?
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> zero crossing optotriac
[12:41] <Laurenceb> right
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> you hook one of these in series with a big triac
[12:42] <Laurenceb> then a second triac for output driving?
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> yes
[12:42] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:42] <Laurenceb> what about zero crossing detection... transformer?
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> you can in principle drive the triac direct - but that means an isolated power source
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> no - the moc* chip has thet in
[12:42] <Laurenceb> and use that to power the micro
[12:42] <Laurenceb> ah right
[12:43] <Laurenceb> guess I could just nick a SMPS power brixck
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> probably easiest
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> For testing, a relay works fine
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> but relays typically have a life of 100kops or so - which may not work so well
[12:54] <Laurenceb> yeah I need to PWM with high resolution
[12:55] <Laurenceb> I have an AD595 setup for temperature measurement
[12:58] <Laurenceb> I dont see any zero crossing detection on the MOc
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> possibly wrong number
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> 3030 I meant
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> oops
[13:33] <Laurenceb> still dont see how you detect zero crossings with that thing
[13:33] <Laurenceb> as you need to set a timer at the zero crossing then trigger the triac at timeout
[13:34] <SpeedEvil> It has a zero crossing detector in it
[13:34] <SpeedEvil> my net is being stupidly slow ATM
[13:35] <Laurenceb> I only see an LED corrected to the low voltage side
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> the 3030 has a zero crossing module on the HV side
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> If I've remembered the part number right this time
[13:35] <Laurenceb> is it saying it only conducts +ive side of the AC?
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> no
[13:36] <Laurenceb> says "zero voltage crossing" in the datasheet
[13:37] <SpeedEvil> it has a block in the AC side which only enables the triac after zero crossing if the LED is on
[13:37] <Laurenceb> ah
[13:38] <Laurenceb> so you could pwm by intermittently enabling 180 degree sections of sine wave
[13:38] <Laurenceb> of the AC
[13:38] <Laurenceb> I get it
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> So you just PWM at - say - 5Hz - at some freuency not locked to the AC line freq
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> and it just works
[13:39] <Laurenceb> yeah, just has to be fairly slow
[13:39] <Laurenceb> but for toaster elements that should be ok
[13:39] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[13:39] <SpeedEvil> well - 1s is probably better controlled - 5hz will have a fair bit of noise
[13:39] <Laurenceb> they cool down pretty fast - prob exponential decay with time constant ~0.5 seconds
[13:39] <SpeedEvil> and a high minimum power
[13:40] <Laurenceb> yeah, thats prob not an issue
[13:40] <SpeedEvil> actually - no - there won't be a minimum power on reflection
[13:40] <Laurenceb> guess need to try it out
[13:40] <SpeedEvil> the zero crossing is easier than working on all the snubbing and stuff to stop RFI
[13:41] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:41] <Laurenceb> thats the problem with the other approach
[13:41] <Laurenceb> of turning it on some time after a zero crossing
[13:42] <Laurenceb> my thoughts for the "oven" are one half of a cheap toaster
[13:42] <Laurenceb> mounted horizontally - with plastic parts removed
[13:42] <Laurenceb> poss some stainless steel cover that allows the hot air to accumulate
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> alternatively - te with http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg//SID-C1D562E8-2D7065DD/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_7744.htm?offerdate=&idcheck=true&ar2=&id=390&country=GB&zipcode=KY7+5PS&city=Fife&district=Glenrothes&street=Leslie+Road&ar=11&nf=True
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> thermometer with the righthand item on
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:43] <Laurenceb> error
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> I have a cheap piza oven
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> from ebay
[13:44] <SpeedEvil> dimmer switch
[13:44] <SpeedEvil> works well - according to some tests.
[13:44] <SpeedEvil> I haven't completed the controller though
[13:44] <Laurenceb> what were you linking at lidl?
[13:45] <SpeedEvil> dimmer switch that I happened to have it open.
[13:45] <Laurenceb> ah
[13:45] <Laurenceb> yeah problem is controlling it
[13:46] <Laurenceb> optotriac seems easier
[13:46] <Laurenceb> then micro +ad959 + 2x16 lcd
[13:46] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[13:47] <Laurenceb> display temperature, target temperature, time, remaining time etc
[13:49] <Laurenceb> safety is a bit of an issue
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> not really
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> thermal fuse
[13:49] <Laurenceb> then again toasters a pretty dangerous - I nearly electricuted myself trying to get something out with a fork
[13:50] <Laurenceb> I mean electricution risk
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> ah
[13:50] <Laurenceb> lots of heat shrink certainly
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> I decided to just use the pizza oven set to high temp
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> and leave the existing cutouts
[13:51] <Laurenceb> I was worried something like that might be too laggy
[13:51] <Laurenceb> want to be careful reflowing expensive parts
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> I got a reasonable rise-rate in tests
[13:52] <Laurenceb> what about cool rate? what sort of rates?
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> don't recall.
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> don't have notes.
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> I was lightly modding it - with a stirring fan.
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> and an exhaust fan.
[13:53] <Laurenceb> ah
[13:53] <Laurenceb> yeah that was my idea
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> to let in small amounts of air in a controlled manner
[13:53] <Laurenceb> before I realised if you just have stainless stell as a cover
[13:54] <Laurenceb> it will cool plenty fast enough
[13:55] <Laurenceb> if you buy a slightly more expensive toaster with a stainless case, then you get the SS sheet as well
[13:56] <Laurenceb> maybe just chop toaster in half and add a door
[13:58] <Laurenceb> they tend to use heat resistant wire and crimps to supply the elements, so it should mind getting hot inside
[13:58] <Laurenceb> bbl
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> wve
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[20:46] <jcoxon> evening all
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[21:27] <jcoxon> evening rjharrison
[21:27] <rjharrison> evening all
[21:27] <rjharrison> Hi jcoxon
[21:27] <rjharrison> This is the fist time i'm testing the sauna laptop
[21:27] <jcoxon> sauna laptop!
[21:28] <rjharrison> No web cam i'm pleased to say
[21:28] <jcoxon> surely the moisture will munch it
[21:28] <rjharrison> I brought this sauna on ebay a few years back and finally got it installed for new years day
[21:28] <rjharrison> 18 person sauna
[21:29] <rjharrison> humidity at 50% atm and 50 C
[21:29] <rjharrison> I'm using it on the bottom bench
[21:29] <jcoxon> rjharrison, you are crazy
[21:29] <rjharrison> Yep your not the first to say that
[21:30] <rjharrison> I have spodify steaming to the speakers too
[21:30] <rjharrison> streaming :-)
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[21:30] <jcoxon> good pun
[21:30] <rjharrison> juxta: how is the effort down under?
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[21:31] <rjharrison> DanielRichman: Where are you guys up tooo
[21:31] <rjharrison> Surely you must be ready to launch soon
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[21:31] <jcoxon> rjharrison, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/4281812942/in/set-72157623226106480/
[21:32] <rjharrison> master coxon I like that
[21:32] <DanielRichman> rjharrison, i just finished aralditing the antenna elements
[21:32] <rjharrison> Looks like a diving tool
[21:33] <rjharrison> DanielRichman: Excellent well the wx has been shit for launching
[21:33] <jcoxon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhugRk1lEN0
[21:34] <rjharrison> nice
[21:34] <rjharrison> Am i right in thinking the pump works by squishing a tube to send a known volume out>
[21:35] <rjharrison> I'm hoping there is going to be alot of launch activity in
[21:35] <jcoxon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Howworksmin.gif
[21:35] <jcoxon> yeah each rotation 'shift's a set volume
[21:35] <rjharrison> I'm hoping there is going to be alot of launch activity in February as we have been a bit flat recently save JC's effort. Good on you james
[21:37] <jcoxon> hehe, i havn't launched that much
[21:37] <rjharrison> Yep but you have launched in the lull
[21:37] <jcoxon> out of 18 flights in 2009 i launched 3 of them :-p
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[21:37] <rjharrison> how is CUSF doing
[21:38] <rjharrison> Hey junderwood any plans afoot from cambridge at the moment?
[21:38] <jcoxon> you launched 5, steve 4, cusf 3
[21:38] <jcoxon> rjharrison, i haven't heard much from CUSF recently
[21:38] <junderwood> Maybe something in the next few weeks.
[21:38] <rjharrison> jcoxon: I have got alot of catching up to do though
[21:38] <junderwood> Weather's lkousy, though
[21:38] <junderwood> *lousy
[21:39] <jcoxon> well its all going to come together nicely with a trans-atlantic :-
[21:39] <jcoxon> p
[21:39] <rjharrison> Yep i'm looking forward to getting icarus III up in the sky on a float with a timer
[21:39] <rjharrison> jcoxon: yep
[21:40] <rjharrison> Who is horus
[21:40] <jcoxon> juxta,
[21:40] <rjharrison> I just saw some data
[21:40] <jcoxon> yeah he is ready to launch - just the Oz CAA haven't finished sorting out permission
[21:41] <rjharrison> cool that should be a good one
[21:41] <rjharrison> Is that the first from OZ
[21:42] <rjharrison> Laptop still working I might remove the battery in a minute as I'm on mains power
[21:42] <jcoxon> ummm there have been a few that i know of
[21:42] <rjharrison> The acid isn't leaking down my legs yet
[21:43] <jcoxon> hmmm - just coding the backup ballast drops for BH4 - have one function that will dump if ascentrate < -5m/s and we have ballast left
[21:43] <jcoxon> any other situations people can think of
[21:43] <rjharrison> > 5m/s?
[21:43] <rjharrison> ahh
[21:43] <rjharrison> no your right
[21:44] <jcoxon> as in that we've screwed up and its never going to float
[21:44] <jcoxon> if say we have a full tank and we are going up to fast say after reaching 25km alt
[21:44] <rjharrison> ok I think you know what you mean do some dry runs though
[21:45] <rjharrison> With both types of problem
[21:45] <rjharrison> Too fast and no float and failure to detect float due to up and down wobble
[21:46] <rjharrison> and indeed steady descent
[21:47] <jcoxon> rjharrison, i was think perhaps a timer say if we haven't got float after 6hrs then dump some ballast
[21:47] <jcoxon> to cover wobble
[21:47] <rjharrison> Yep
[21:47] <rjharrison> is 6 a bit long
[21:47] <rjharrison> 5 ?
[21:47] <rjharrison> Would have to look at historical data
[21:47] <jcoxon> but dumping ballast will screw up chances of our perfect scenario working
[21:48] <rjharrison> yep you're in the zone
[21:48] <rjharrison> I'm a bit out of touch after xmas
[21:48] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:49] <rjharrison> will be focusing on hab again soon
[21:49] <rjharrison> BTW I signed up to do my M0 today
[21:49] <rjharrison> sit in June
[21:50] <jcoxon> oh great
[21:50] <jcoxon> good work
[21:50] <rjharrison> The i can teach my kids radio I think
[21:51] <rjharrison> you get some kind of teaching permission when you have m0
[21:51] <jcoxon> i should really get a higher licence but i really like M6JCX
[21:51] <jcoxon> its a good callsign
[21:51] <rjharrison> to allow someone to use your radio under supervision with your call sign IIRC
[21:53] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[21:53] <rjharrison> opps scrolling issue
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[21:56] <jcoxon> wow over the weekend the number of people on the channel dropped quite a bit but this evening everyone has returned
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[22:03] <icez> whatever happened to the days of barely 5 people being here
[22:04] <jcoxon> those were the days :-)
[22:04] <jcoxon> icez, you were around back in those days :-)
[22:08] <icez> it's a shame I haven't done anything related to balloons since :P
[22:08] <jcoxon> everyone here contributes to balloon missions :-)
[22:09] <rjharrison> sauna at 60C
[22:09] <rjharrison> but only 35% humid
[22:16] <jcoxon> haha
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[22:17] <EI5GTB> yo dawgs
[22:18] <jcoxon> hey EI5GTB
[22:18] <EI5GTB> hey, hows things
[22:19] <jcoxon> not bad
[22:19] <EI5GTB> good good, many flights
[22:19] <EI5GTB> ?
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[22:21] <blomlet_> I've just seen an older "chair at altitude" video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hSDbAo2WMk
[22:21] <jcoxon> ummm BH3, preparing for BH4 soon early feb
[22:22] <jcoxon> blomlet_, oh yeah
[22:22] <jcoxon> that was before all of us, perhaps a little naughty as it used amateur radio i think
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[22:22] <blomlet_> it looks like a real chair too
[22:23] <blomlet_> not a balsa construction
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[22:41] <DanielRichman> Hmm. Brass 4mm Rod, will be blowtorch-heated and bent around a 29mm (pine?) piece of wood to make a folded dipole:
[22:41] <DanielRichman> a) by how much should I roughly over-bend it so that when it cools and relaxes it is a 180 degree bend?
[22:42] <DanielRichman> b) should I worry about the heat and pressure getting to the wood
[22:42] <Randomskk> I just put it under some pvc pipe and pulled both ends up while standing on the pipe
[22:42] <DanielRichman> c) the dipole is specified to be both 691mm long, and, after bending, should have a 10mm gap
[22:42] <Randomskk> what I'm trying to say is that you already seem much more prepared and well thought out than me
[22:42] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, heh I'll just go for it then
[22:42] <Randomskk> getting the gap right is a bit of a pain in the arse with my method
[22:43] <DanielRichman> Randomskk, my question is: what is more important? the overall length or the gap
[22:43] <DanielRichman> should I roughly cut the length, bend, and fine tune to get the precise gap
[22:43] <Randomskk> the overall length is the most important, but really it's the half-length that's important
[22:43] <DanielRichman> or exactly cut the length and just hope for the gap
[22:43] <Randomskk> the gap doesn't matter all that much
[22:43] <DanielRichman> ok got it.
[22:43] <Randomskk> but if the gap is wrong it means you got the bend wrong
[22:43] <Randomskk> which matters a bit more
[22:43] <Randomskk> you want the right length and also the right gap :P
[22:43] <Randomskk> within a few mm anyway
[22:43] <DanielRichman> any idea of the tolerance?
[22:43] <Randomskk> ^
[22:44] <DanielRichman> :)
[22:44] <Randomskk> but really you can be pretty far out and still get away with it, I am told
[22:44] <DanielRichman> right. I also need to decide if i should try and measure the gain
[22:44] <DanielRichman> I might be pleased or gutted :P
[22:44] <Randomskk> hehe
[22:44] <Randomskk> worth knowing
[22:44] <Randomskk> I don't think I have anything with which to measure the gain
[22:44] <DanielRichman> the design, perfected, claims it should manage 11.7 dBd
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[23:03] <tonyb486> Can you recommend a 900mhz (or not?) radio thats simple and relativley inexpensive, We're looking at the Xbee XSC 900 but don't like that it has a proprietary protocol
[23:05] <Randomskk> lol farnell
[23:05] <Randomskk> my parts for the motor controller arrived
[23:05] <Randomskk> one AVR in TQFP
[23:05] <Randomskk> in a 250-chip tray
[23:05] <Randomskk> five AVRs in QF in a 500-chip tray
[23:06] <jcoxon> tonyb486, we use radiometrix ntx2 434mhz modules with a ham receiver and are looking into Radiometrix 868mhz modules
[23:07] <tonyb486> And those work well for communicating with a balloon?
[23:08] <jcoxon> the 434mhz at 10mw has gone 420kms!
[23:08] <tonyb486> I don't think those frequencies are allowed in the uS though
[23:09] <tonyb486> but I dont know
[23:09] <jcoxon> i think they might be - we use very low power
[23:10] <tonyb486> Hmm
[23:10] <tonyb486> Probably need a ham license
[23:11] <Randomskk> nope
[23:11] <Randomskk> not to rx
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[23:11] <Randomskk> and the tx should be unlicensed
[23:11] <tonyb486> I see
[23:11] <jcoxon> tonyb486, tis lower power
[23:11] <kuzew> Hey guys
[23:12] <jcoxon> hi kuzew, welcome to #highaltitude
[23:12] <tonyb486> kuzew is in the same group as me
[23:12] <jcoxon> oh cool
[23:12] <kuzew> yeah, I'm working on the DAQ system and the radios
[23:13] <kuzew> Had some questions on APRS
[23:13] <jcoxon> tonyb486, yeah if you get a ham licence APRS is very easy
[23:14] <jcoxon> in the UK we can't use the APRS freqs to have to do our own thing
[23:14] <tonyb486> the modules they were talking about (and that I told you about) weren't APRS I believe
[23:14] <tonyb486> kuzew: wanna get ham licenses, heh
[23:14] <kuzew> I would, but not for this project
[23:14] <tonyb486> They were giving the ham test at HOPE, I should've tried then
[23:15] <jcoxon> kuzew, so yeah we use 10mW 434mhz modules transmitting rtty and then use a ham receiver to rx the data strings
[23:15] <jcoxon> and the max range has been 419km
[23:15] <kuzew> How easy is the AX.25 protocol stack to program?
[23:15] <tonyb486> Are the modules you use easy to program with?
[23:15] <jcoxon> there is an aprs/ax25 lib for avrs i think
[23:16] <jcoxon> tonyb486, well they are 'raw' modules as such
[23:16] <jcoxon> varying voltage varies the freq
[23:16] <kuzew> Why should I use APRS vs. Xbee or other radios/schemes?
[23:17] <jcoxon> well APRS on ham freqs allows you to use all the nodes that exist through out the states
[23:17] <tonyb486> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=560 o.o
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[23:18] <jcoxon> http://www.radiometrix.com/cu-spaceflight
[23:18] <kuzew> right, can you talk to your micro through APRS?
[23:18] <Randomskk> the advantage to using something likr APRS or RTTY is that a really good ham radio with a really good antenna can be used to pick it up
[23:18] <Randomskk> even though the transmitter might be shitty
[23:19] <Randomskk> using stuff like xbee or that sparkfun module pretty much limits you to using the same thing on the other side of the link
[23:19] <kuzew> not if you homebrew your antennas
[23:19] <Randomskk> yea, but you still have a shitty receiver
[23:20] <kuzew> I see
[23:21] <tonyb486> I actually got http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8946 and a reciever to play with
[23:21] <tonyb486> not for a balloon
[23:21] <jcoxon> tonyb486, thats the sort of thing we use though we find the radiometrix modules better quality and you have far more control over them
[23:21] <jcoxon> they aren't too expensive either
[23:21] <tonyb486> yeah I have those on my desk now
[23:21] <jcoxon> 21 dollars
[23:22] <tonyb486> they were $5, I doubt they are any use for this though
[23:22] <kuzew> how are some of these modules on power?
[23:23] <jcoxon> kuzew, tx power? 10mW but on a balloon its got amazing line of sight
[23:23] <jcoxon> or if you mean around 20mA i think
[23:24] <kuzew> yeah, 20mA on transmit?
[23:24] <Laurenceb> another idea is cc1020
[23:24] <Laurenceb> 10mw transceiver on 434MHz
[23:25] <Randomskk> hmm
[23:25] <jcoxon> kuzew, datasheet says 18mA
[23:25] <Randomskk> anyone know if flux fumes are likely to set off kitchen fire alarms? :P
[23:25] <Laurenceb> that sparkfun thing is actually quite good
[23:25] <Laurenceb> but radiometrix are better
[23:25] <kuzew> jcoxon: not bad for 10mW
[23:25] <Laurenceb> up to 1000Km or so
[23:25] <Laurenceb> with radiometrix
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[23:25] <Laurenceb> that thing gives you about 100Km maybe a bit more
[23:25] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, hehe we ran out at 420km las ttime
[23:26] <jcoxon> right i'm off, nght all
[23:26] <Laurenceb> yeah, but due to line of sight
[23:26] <Laurenceb> but noise floor
[23:26] <Laurenceb> cya
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[23:26] <Laurenceb> I'm working on a cc1020 link
[23:26] <Laurenceb> mouser have the eval boards, but they are a bit pricey
[23:27] <Laurenceb> but _very_ good performance
[23:27] <Laurenceb> roughtly as good as the best scanners if you extract the raw data from the front end in Rx mode
[23:28] <Laurenceb> havent actually got that working with hardware yet - just simulated in matlab
[23:29] <tonyb486> I seee
[23:30] <tonyb486> For the radiometrix stuff, is it easy to program with a PIC?
[23:30] <kuzew> are there APRS chipsets out there that I can talk to via SPI or UART?
[23:30] <Laurenceb> yes
[23:30] <Laurenceb> unlikely
[23:30] <Laurenceb> but you could possibly do APRS with a chipcon
[23:32] <kuzew> I just think there are alot of games one has to play with APRS (I'd rather keep to something simpler)
[23:32] <Laurenceb> IMO is best to use a simpler protocol
[23:33] <Laurenceb> or just the chipcon modem
[23:33] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: for reflow ovens - thermcouple with a lith battery monitor
[23:33] <Laurenceb> DS2745U
[23:34] <kuzew> Laurenceb: what would you recommend to commucate with a micro with?
[23:34] <kuzew> long range where RF LOS is not a problem
[23:34] <Laurenceb> we use radiometrix to a scanner
[23:34] <Laurenceb> then sound card
[23:34] <Laurenceb> but its one way
[23:34] <Laurenceb> I'm experimenting with ccc1020, but not flight tested yet
[23:35] <tonyb486> I don't think we have a scanner
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I saw that app-note.
[23:35] <Laurenceb> those sparkfun thingies use chipcon ICs, but older less sensitive ones
[23:35] <Laurenceb> I calculated 100Km + with a module on a hill test
[23:36] <tonyb486> hill test?
[23:36] <Laurenceb> I'm working on a cc1020 based "scanner" - but its matlab code only atm - proof of concept
[23:36] <Laurenceb> module stuck on a hill, walk away until loss of signal
[23:36] <tonyb486> you walked 100km away?
[23:36] Action: SpeedEvil puts on the proclaimers.
[23:37] <Laurenceb> no
[23:37] <Laurenceb> about 1.5Km
[23:37] <Laurenceb> with crappy antenni
[23:37] <Laurenceb> or however you spell it, then calculated performance with properyagi
[23:38] <Laurenceb> if you want to go down the radiometrix route, you need something that does single side band on 434MHz
[23:38] <Laurenceb> or SSB as the HAMs call it
[23:38] <tonyb486> I don't think we want to use a scanner+soundcard+etc, we'd like to keep it as simple as possible
[23:38] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: Farnell have that IC for £3.38
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[23:39] <Laurenceb> tonyb486: yeah I hate it too
[23:39] <Laurenceb> ideally a little usb dongly thing would be nice
[23:39] <Laurenceb> thats what I'm working towards
[23:39] <tonyb486> the xbee stuff is kinda like that
[23:40] <Laurenceb> ewww
[23:40] <Laurenceb> also 2.4GHz
[23:40] <kuzew> 900 MHz
[23:40] <tonyb486> there is a 900mhz xbee radio
[23:40] <Laurenceb> or 434 and poor performance
[23:40] <Laurenceb> yeah if you're in the states maybe an option
[23:40] <Laurenceb> I havent looked into US legal stuff much as Im UK
[23:41] <tonyb486> we can use 900mhz, I believe
[23:41] <kuzew> yeah, but is it not an 802.15.4 standard
[23:41] <kuzew> some closed protocol crap
[23:41] <tonyb486> we don't like black magic being used
[23:41] <Laurenceb> me too
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[23:42] Action: SpeedEvil is playing with 'night vision' mode on his n900
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> I noticed that the video camera is surprisingly quiet - the camera looks black when taking video
[23:43] <SpeedEvil> mplayer tv:// -tv device=/dev/video0 -vf eq=77:100,eq=10:100,eq=50:100,denoise3d=8:6:22,scale=320:240
[23:43] <SpeedEvil> is the rather silly result
[23:43] <SpeedEvil> but has surprisingly good output
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[23:45] <tonyb486> What do you think the range of http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=155 would actually be with line of sight?
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> couple of kilometers?
[23:46] <tonyb486> thats no good for a balloon I guess
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[23:49] <SpeedEvil> the 9600 costs you _lots_ of range over - say 50bps and the comparatively poor reciever costs you more
[23:51] <kuzew> low bit rate isn't a problem
[23:51] <kuzew> range in the 15+ miles is ideal
[23:52] <kuzew> with the proper antenna that is
[00:00] --- Tue Jan 19 2010