highaltitude.log.20100110

[00:24] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/code:7_state_ekf_with_bias
[00:24] <Laurenceb> a quick write up
[00:28] <Laurenceb> I need to do a version of the diydrones algorithm for a full comparison
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[00:41] <russss> http://russ.garrett.co.uk/2010/01/10/semi-realtime-satellite-desktop-backgrounds/
[00:41] <russss> my quick hack for the day
[00:45] <N900evil> hmm
[00:45] <N900evil> that would be cool as one of my desktop backgrounds with weather graph overlaid.
[00:46] <N900evil> using http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Glenrothes/meteogram.png atnm
[00:47] <N900evil> atm
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[02:13] <juxta> one of my onewire temp sensors seems to have failed :(
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[03:30] Action: N900evil has a bag of 50 to deploy.
[03:31] <N900evil> need to get on with that.
[03:32] <N900evil> for monitorkinbg airflow and temps around house to look for condensation possibilities.
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[11:27] <edmoore> good morning jcoxon
[11:29] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[11:29] <edmoore> all well?
[11:29] <jcoxon> yup
[11:29] <jcoxon> just upgrading my atlas flight avr to a 328
[11:29] <edmoore> cool
[11:29] <edmoore> i finally dound my batch of 328s
[11:29] <edmoore> we really needed them about 4 months ago at 11pm one night, couldn't find them for the life of me
[11:30] <edmoore> poor iain instead had to do a massive refactoring exercise to get the antenna-pointer and uplink controller onto a 168
[11:32] <jcoxon> hehe, where were they?
[11:33] <edmoore> in my boot
[11:33] <edmoore> did a deep clean of my car in anticipation of it being part exchanged
[11:33] <edmoore> it's actually really nice. i went to one of those cowboy looking outfits that take up old petrol stations that do complete valetting for £15
[11:34] <edmoore> never seen my car so shiny both inside and out.
[11:34] <jcoxon> hehe
[11:34] <jcoxon> hmmm my arduino NG board does not like 328s
[11:36] Action: Laurenceb is thinking of making a diy drones style autopilot with a 328
[11:36] <edmoore> there's a lot of decent code there
[11:36] <edmoore> the board itself is just a trivial breakout, but the code is turning into a pretty nice project
[11:37] <Laurenceb> I want to make a lot of changes
[11:37] <Laurenceb> to get it to run with a magnetometer
[11:37] <edmoore> I've been thinking about getting an autopilot to hack with (I *might* be doing some UAV work after graduation) but I think I might go with paparazzi. The arm just has so much more capability, and i'm quite familiar with the 2148
[11:37] <Laurenceb> also their IMU code runs on dspic
[11:38] <Laurenceb> their algorithm is very neat - about 10K instructions on avr
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[11:58] <jcoxon> yay all up and running
[12:27] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: are you going for a magnet and hall sensor on the pump?
[12:29] <Laurenceb> http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Booz
[12:31] <russss> I always get a warm fuzzy feeling when I see the mediawiki LaTeX extension in use.
[12:32] <russss> I'd like to build a UAV but I really have too many projects on the go to consider it
[12:32] <russss> like finishing this bloody house.
[12:32] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, i was going for photogate at the moment
[12:32] <edmoore> i can see it's going to be a problem for me too in life
[12:32] <edmoore> too many projects
[12:33] <russss> I am really bad at finishing things
[12:33] <jcoxon> yeah just ignore life, thats what i do :-p
[12:33] <russss> I start something, and then go "oh yeah, that's totally doable" and then I lose interest.
[12:33] <Laurenceb> heh me too
[12:33] <Laurenceb> at least Ive got past the finish house stage
[12:34] <Laurenceb> wish they had a simple explanation of their code :-/ I dont want to have to read all the source
[12:37] <Laurenceb> looks like EKF with some manual calibration for sensitivity axis offsets and whatnot
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[12:46] <edmoore> russss: same
[12:47] <edmoore> I think that's why python is nice (at least for software projects)
[12:47] <edmoore> you can get the thing basically done within the initial bout of enthusiasm
[12:47] <russss> yeah
[12:48] <edmoore> so for example rjharrison puts the latest position on his website live during a flight
[12:48] <edmoore> http://robertharrison.org/listen/lastpos.php
[12:48] <edmoore> and to grab that for our antenna pointer, it's one line of python
[12:48] <edmoore> something like:
[12:48] <edmoore> (lat, lon, alt) = urllib2.urlopen('http://robertharrison.org/listen/lastpos.php').read().split(',')[:3]
[12:49] <edmoore> glorious!
[12:49] <russss> I alternate between python and ruby
[12:49] <russss> I use python at work, but I think I slightly prefer ruby
[12:49] <edmoore> have never tried ruby.
[12:49] <edmoore> but I hear good things (it's impossible not to)
[12:50] <edmoore> except I once read a rant by some guy who wrote a ruby web server
[12:50] <edmoore> he sounded quite insane
[12:50] <edmoore> Zed Shaw, infact
[12:50] <russss> it's like python but without the syntactic whitespace and with better functionalness
[12:50] <Randomskk> ruby is pretty nice
[12:50] <russss> yeah, I knew who you meant ;)
[12:50] <Randomskk> but I find python has more libraries
[12:50] <Laurenceb> http://svn.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/paparazzi3/trunk/sw/airborne/booz/ahrs/booz_ahrs_float_ekf.c?root=paparazzi&view=markup
[12:50] <Laurenceb> its EKF using a quaternion and three gyro biases
[12:50] <russss> zed shaw seems to do a good impression of an insane language zealot, but I don't think he is one. He codes python now.
[12:51] <edmoore> well, this rant was very anti- RoR
[12:51] <Laurenceb> all float32
[12:51] <Laurenceb> quite nice
[12:51] <russss> there is a lot of wankery in the RoR community.
[12:51] <edmoore> ort rather the people in it. or something. it was basically just a rant
[12:51] <Laurenceb> freaking language zealots
[12:51] <russss> I don't like Rails, I think I prefer Django. There is too much magic in Rails.
[12:52] <edmoore> Laurenceb: their svn viwer really should do syntax highlighting
[12:52] <edmoore> i think github is spoilt me
[12:52] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:52] <russss> I end up trying to work out why things are magically doing what they are, and before I know it I've spent a day doing nothing.
[12:53] <russss> quite a lot of projects are mirroring their stuff onto github now
[12:53] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/code:7_state_ekf_with_bias <- I did the same thing in octave
[12:53] <Laurenceb> pretty impressive performance
[12:53] <Randomskk> rails is full of magic and django is really nice, but I find rails better for more interesting web apps? django is great for content, but to make it do something not content you have to really hack into it
[12:53] Action: Laurenceb doesnt know or care about rails
[12:53] <Laurenceb> sorry - just bores me
[12:54] <edmoore> have not really used any of theme web frameworks. it's all a bit of a mystery to me.
[12:56] <edmoore> but one thing that is definitely cool
[12:56] <edmoore> google charts api
[12:56] <edmoore> especially things like guages
[12:56] <Randomskk> yes
[12:56] <edmoore> google chart guages
[12:56] <Randomskk> it's really handy
[12:56] <Laurenceb> I've used pcharts
[12:56] <Randomskk> can do qr codes too :o
[12:56] <edmoore> http://code.google.com/apis/visualization/documentation/gallery/gauge.html
[12:56] <edmoore> they'd be ideal for tracker visualisation
[12:57] <edmoore> battery voltages, temps etc
[12:57] <edmoore> ballast level (jcoxon hint)
[13:01] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:03] <Laurenceb> http://svn.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/paparazzi3/trunk/sw/airborne/booz/ahrs/booz_ahrs_float_lkf.c?root=paparazzi&view=markup
[13:03] <Laurenceb> interesting - I cant quite work out how that filter differs
[13:04] <Laurenceb> appears to use a conversion to quaternion to propogate the state, but euler anges in the state vecotr or something
[13:04] <Laurenceb> that code makes my head hurt
[13:07] <Laurenceb> guess that might run faster
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[13:16] <Laurenceb> http://uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-8225/digital-storage-scope-40mhz-2-ch/dp/1739443 <- good value?
[13:19] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: http://uk.farnell.com/allegro-microsystems/a3213eua-t/hall-effect-switch-micropower-sip3/dp/1521681 I'd use that
[13:19] <SpeedEvil> I got http://www.nickscipio.com/pod/ and it works well
[13:19] <SpeedEvil> err
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Test-Equipment/Oscilloscopes/PDS-Series-2-channel-colour-oscilloscopes/80709 ratehr
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> the 60M onw
[13:22] <Laurenceb> ah cheaper
[13:22] <Laurenceb> but Owon ?!
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> you've hjeard of tenma before?
[13:23] <Laurenceb> maybe the cheap chinese ones on ebay are better
[13:23] <Laurenceb> heh no
[13:23] <Laurenceb> thought I had but no
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> rapid are moderately likely to be around
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> hence you have someone to fall bnack on - ebay - 6 months time...
[13:24] <Laurenceb> yeah true
[13:34] <Laurenceb> hmm Im thinking you could run the diy drones algorithm on a mega328 at 12MHz or so, and have a board along the lines of that sparkfun 9DOF
[13:35] <Laurenceb> but add cc1020 and pwm in/out
[13:35] <Laurenceb> theres just enough hardware on the 328
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[13:38] <edmoore> Laurenceb: lol at comment http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/01/tweeting_photos_with_an_arduino.html#comments
[13:38] <Laurenceb> lol
[13:38] <Laurenceb> that is quite impressive - if low res
[13:39] <Laurenceb> but not really the right hardware
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[14:07] <Laurenceb> is there a good alternative to optocouplers if you have a common ground
[14:07] <Laurenceb> obviously npn transitors but you need to invert the logic levels
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[15:33] <juxta> hmm, has anybody experienced issues with the lassen IQ and DS18B20 temp sensors? as soon as my GPS gets lock, my sensors start giving me bogus readings :(
[15:34] <juxta> not sure what's happening there...
[15:35] <Randomskk> that's pretty peculiar
[15:35] <Randomskk> the gps itself isn't affected at all?
[15:36] <Randomskk> tried putting the onewire bus under a scope?
[15:36] <russss> heh
[15:36] <Randomskk> maybe the gps current draw is causing a voltage drop that stops the ds being able to charge fully on its parasitic cap?
[15:39] <juxta> Randomskk: that's what I thought, but even when I use the sensor in non-parasitic mode it happens
[15:39] <juxta> haven't got a scope unfortunatley
[15:39] <Randomskk> my sensor didn't work in non-parasitic mode
[15:39] <Randomskk> which was a bit weird really
[15:40] <juxta> measured the voltage also, seems steady
[15:40] <juxta> when the GPS gets lock the current only goes up 10 or 20 ma
[15:41] <juxta> hrmm
[15:41] <juxta> very odd =\
[15:42] <Randomskk> definitely not a controller-side issue?
[15:43] <juxta> pretty sure it's not
[15:44] <jcoxon> juxta, thats really odd
[15:44] <juxta> the values it returns are -999 (device not present on bus), or 85, which is the 'default' value for the sensor if it's just been reset or powered up and hasnt read the temp yet
[15:44] <jcoxon> i'm just about to add my ds18b20s onto my main board
[15:44] <edmoore> I am looking at some photos from Noisebridge meetups. I don't understand - is dyed hair a membership requirement or something?
[15:44] <jcoxon> noise?
[15:44] <russss> lol
[15:45] <Randomskk> edmoore: have you checked what city noisebridge is in? ;p
[15:45] <edmoore> I guess
[15:46] <Randomskk> they are apparently even planning a uav return-to-launchsite on their first launch?
[15:46] <Randomskk> the emails say what they plan to discuss at meetings but not what they actually discussed :P
[15:46] <russss> is that legal in the US?
[15:46] <juxta> hrmm, I can't think of anything else that'd be causing this
[15:47] <edmoore> Randomskk: all these kinds of project groups, at the idea bashing stage, aim to get auto-return done withion one month and so on
[15:47] <edmoore> same with us
[15:47] <edmoore> best to just ignore it and accept that the actual realisation will probably take longer
[15:48] <edmoore> that said, it's in SF which has both rich people and brainy people, which is a potent combo
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[15:50] <Randomskk> will be interesting to see how it goes
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[16:28] <juxta> Randomskk: I worked it out, I think
[16:33] <Randomskk> what was it?
[16:34] <juxta> the interrupt driven serial I use on the soft uart to the GPS tends to throw off delay() calls when there's data coming in
[16:34] <Randomskk> aah
[16:34] <juxta> looks like it was messing up the delay to let the sensors do their conversions etc
[16:35] <Randomskk> got it
[16:35] <Randomskk> bit of a pain
[16:35] <juxta> so once the GPS got lock, there was lots of activity on the uart
[16:35] <Randomskk> have it disable interrupts while doing temperature reading then?
[16:35] <Randomskk> sei() and cli()
[16:35] <juxta> yeah I was going to do that, but instead I moved the calls around so they happen before other lengthy-ish things
[16:36] <Randomskk> fair enough
[16:36] <juxta> so it winds up with a 300ms or so delay
[16:37] <juxta> i probably should have thought of that before, given how long it took me to work out why my RTTY delay() calls were going nuts when using interrupt serial
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[16:38] <rjharrison_> hi al
[16:38] <rjharrison_> l
[16:38] <rjharrison_> hey edmoore
[16:38] <edmoore> greetings
[16:38] <rjharrison_> You back at camb now?
[16:38] <edmoore> how's the move?
[16:38] <edmoore> yep
[16:38] <edmoore> got back yesterday
[16:39] <rjharrison_> Still in it and will be for a few months befor sorted but other than that not bad
[16:39] <rjharrison_> wx has been crap for hab anyhow
[16:39] <rjharrison_> So I dont think I have missed out
[16:39] <rjharrison_> Looking forward to tracking the next payload
[16:39] <edmoore> http://www.cuspaceflight.co.uk/hourly-predictions
[16:39] <edmoore> not too bad at the mo
[16:40] <edmoore> shame you probably couldn't get a car to the recovery site
[16:41] <rjharrison_> the 4x4 isn't bad in this wx it just the bloody cold
[16:41] <rjharrison_> Dont fanvy playing with the He in this wx
[16:41] <edmoore> :)
[16:41] <edmoore> the reg would freeze up I suspect
[16:42] <rjharrison_> The cylinders seem to sap the warmth from my hands in seconds
[16:42] <edmoore> well, it's enthalpic cooling
[16:42] <edmoore> as the pressure inside drops
[16:42] <rjharrison_> Nice word yep
[16:43] <edmoore> we've locked the reg a couple of times
[16:43] <rjharrison_> Yep I have done that scuba diving a few times too
[16:43] <rjharrison_> not nuch fun
[16:43] <SpeedEvil> gloves
[16:43] <edmoore> am infact slowly beginning to think that you could probably fill a balloon quite adequately without a reg at all
[16:43] <rjharrison_> Yep it wouldn't be a problem at all
[16:44] <SpeedEvil> absolute worst case is it pops
[16:44] <SpeedEvil> well - or the valve comes off, and you get a rocket
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[16:44] <rjharrison_> Esp if you have a waste pip connection as any spikes will be smoheed
[16:44] <rjharrison_> smoothed
[16:44] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: we don't use the word rocket
[16:45] <rjharrison_> Hi SpeedEvil happy new year and to you too edmoore
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> thanks
[16:45] <edmoore> we use what the deputy maintenace manager of our college said when we were loading it
[16:45] <edmoore> puasing from his fag, "if you drop that thing, it'll go off like a shagging torpedo"
[16:45] <edmoore> rjharrison_: you too
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> yeah - if you knock th valve off, it gets energetic. :)
[16:45] <rjharrison_> Hehe I haven't seen a shagging torpedo before
[16:46] <rjharrison_> And a whole load of enthalpic cooling
[16:46] <rjharrison_> must dash
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[18:52] <laurence_> lol shagging torpedo
[18:52] <laurence_> that was ages ago
[18:53] Nick change: laurence_ -> Laurenceb_
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> like 2006 :P
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> who are these guys who plan on return to launch site?
[18:54] <Randomskk> noisebridge, a SF hackerspace
[18:54] <Randomskk> recently started a HAB project
[18:55] <Laurenceb_> neat
[18:55] <Randomskk> still in the planning stages at the moment, I believe
[18:56] <Laurenceb_> prob a case believe it when I see it
[18:56] <Randomskk> yea. the autoreturn is just an item on their list of things to try and do
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[18:57] <Laurenceb_> wonder what the legality is over there
[18:57] <Randomskk> mm
[18:57] Action: Laurenceb_ has a "guided parachute"
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> aka rogallo :P
[18:57] <Randomskk> UAVs are essentially illegal here, right?
[18:58] <Laurenceb_> yes, but flexi wing stuff is a parachute
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: I could find no legislation affecting stuff under 7Kg
[18:58] <Randomskk> oooh.
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: legislation as in CAA/...
[18:58] <Randomskk> so legislation specifically says that items above 7kg are illegal?
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> no.
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> It specifies very strict regulations for them
[18:59] <Randomskk> I see
[18:59] <Randomskk> but under 7kg and I'm golden?
[18:59] Action: Randomskk is thinking of his quadcopter
[19:01] <russss> err
[19:02] <russss> IIRC the exemption for vehicles <7kg is only under 500m altitude and within visual range of the pilot
[19:02] <russss> but I could be wrong
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> I last read them - with regards to my UAV - about a year ago - but I couldn\t find specific legislation affecting - under 7Kg.
[19:02] <Randomskk> under 500m is no problem for the quadcopter either really, but a bit of an issue for autoreturn
[19:02] <Randomskk> within visual range of the pilot could be more of an issue
[19:02] <Randomskk> unless I have RF "eyes"
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> I recall the CAA regulations saying something other than that - the model aircraft people have differnet regs - but these are not statute law
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> of course I could merely be suffering bit rot
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> russ: thats as I understand it
[19:03] <russss> I'm wondering if I might be wrong though
[19:03] <russss> since I can't find a citation for that.
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> as I understood it under 7kfg was within visual
[19:04] <Randomskk> and presumably with a means to take over control
[19:04] <Randomskk> who is the "pilot" for a UAV anyway
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> and anything over 7kg or operating above 500m and outside of visual needed a license
[19:04] <Randomskk> ha, I hope they define that properly
[19:04] <russss> yeah, over 7kg and all bets are off
[19:04] <Randomskk> then again they are lawyers, they probably did
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> however, you are allowed to drop things off a hab with a chute
[19:04] <Randomskk> so a controlled chute...
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> they define a chute quite well as a flexible surface
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> so rogallos and parafoils are allowed
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[19:05] <Laurenceb_> certainly if dropped off a hab
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> not sure about if you use powered flight to get them up there
[19:05] <russss> "The CAA is in the process of a consultation with industry over a proposal to amend
[19:05] <russss> the Air Navigation Order which will require operators of UAS with a UAV component
[19:05] <russss> of less than 7 kg mass to obtain a CAA permission, as is currently the case for UAVs
[19:05] <russss> with a mass of 7-20 kg."
[19:06] <russss> it goes on
[19:06] <russss> "If the consultation exercise approves the proposal, it is likely that the ANO
[19:06] <russss> Amendment will pass into law in December 2008. Potential operators of UAS with a
[19:06] <russss> UAV component of less than 7 kg should ascertain, before commencing operations,
[19:06] <russss> whether or not they are required to obtain a CAA permission."
[19:06] <bittwist> :\
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[19:06] <russss> that's CAP 722 which is oddly enough dated April 2009
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> I diddn't find anything actually in force when I looked at it
[19:06] <Laurenceb_> before that didnt the visual raneg rule apply anyway?
[19:06] <Randomskk> so maybe it didn't pass?
[19:07] <Randomskk> UAS?
[19:07] <Laurenceb_> systems?
[19:07] <Laurenceb_> wow theres a lot of poeple in #noisebridge
[19:08] <Randomskk> it's a big hackerspace
[19:08] <Randomskk> they are not all working on the hab
[19:08] <russss> yeah UAS == Unmanned Aerial System
[19:08] <Randomskk> okay
[19:08] <Randomskk> so the HAB would count as a UAS?
[19:08] <russss> well ballooning is a different exemption
[19:09] <russss> http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP722.PDF
[19:09] <Randomskk> ah
[19:09] <russss> that's the document I just quoted ^^
[19:09] <russss> but I guess it's only covered by the balloon exemption if it's attached to either a balloon or a parachute.
[19:10] <russss> "With effect from 1 January 2010 the Air Navigation Order 2005 is revoked and replaced by the Air Navigation Order 2009
[19:10] <russss> "
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> So now anything down to 0 is regulated?
[19:10] <russss> I'm getting there
[19:11] <russss> this is ANO 2009: http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/legResults.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&title=air+navigation+order&Year=2009&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&TYPE=QS&NavFrom=0&activeTextDocId=3635635&PageNumber=1&SortAlpha=0
[19:11] <russss> it's fucking massive
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> :/
[19:11] <russss> "A person must not cause or permit any article or animal (whether or not attached to a parachute) to be dropped from a small unmanned aircraft so as to endanger persons or property."
[19:11] <russss> lol.
[19:11] <russss> "(3) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must maintain direct, unaided visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the purpose of avoiding collisions."
[19:11] <russss> there
[19:11] <russss> 166(3)
[19:12] <russss> with more restrictions over 7kg
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> :/
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if unaided would cover strobes
[19:12] <Laurenceb_> yeah thats as I understood it
[19:12] <Laurenceb_> UAVs basically arent allowed
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> something like diydrones where its arguably fly by wire is ok
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> if you fly it in visual range and keep hold of the controls your doing nothing wrong AIUI
[19:13] <russss> yep
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> flexi wing gliding flight seems to be an exception
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> how?
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> as its just a chute, and theres no destinction for controlled
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> at least the last time I read it
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> Under (3) is there an altitude limit?
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[19:15] <Laurenceb_> their definition of a UAV is something solid wing and powered - or maybe anything powered depending how you read it AIUI
[19:15] <russss> no altitude limit
[19:15] <Laurenceb_> heh
[19:15] <russss> well it actually says "unmanned aircraft"
[19:15] <Randomskk> lol "(1) A person must not enter any aircraft when drunk, or be drunk in any aircraft."
[19:15] <Laurenceb_> I though there was a 500 or 300m limit, in relation to RC planes?
[19:15] <russss> and aircraft is defined quite broadly
[19:16] <russss> the altitude limit does not apply below 7kg
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> ah interesting
[19:16] <russss> same thing with model planes I believe
[19:16] <russss> of course you're going to start getting into interesting definitions of "visual range" if you're flying a <7kg aircraft higher than 400ft
[19:17] <russss> (400ft is the limit)
[19:17] <jcoxon> hey all
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> russss: strobes or lasers. :)
[19:17] <Laurenceb_> whats the definition of an aircraft?
[19:18] <Randomskk> wow
[19:19] <Randomskk> there are some tight restrictions on "small unmanned surveillance aircraft" too
[19:19] <Randomskk> e.g. not within 50m of any vessel, vehicle or structure which is not under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft"
[19:19] <Randomskk> or 50m of any person
[19:19] <Randomskk> I wonder if that includes altitude though
[19:20] <Randomskk> it says
[19:20] <Randomskk> "over or within 150m of an organised open-air assembly of more than 1000 persons"
[19:20] <Randomskk> "within 50m of any vessel, etc"
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[19:20] <russss> Laurenceb_: as far as I can see, anything in the air is an aircraft.
[19:20] <Randomskk> with exceptions to the person in charge of the aircraft or persons under their charge
[19:21] <Randomskk> oh, lol, a "small unmanned surveillance aircraft" is anything equipped to undertake any form of surveillance or data acquisition
[19:21] <Randomskk> any sensors basically, it would appear
[19:21] <Laurenceb_> hmm well I guess anything that drops off a hab is a hab payload
[19:22] <Randomskk> I wonder if a hab counts as a small unmanned surveillance aircraft
[19:22] <Laurenceb_> well as there are already regs regarding hab
[19:22] <Randomskk> saying "may not fly over any congested area" would be tricky if so
[19:22] <Laurenceb_> surely that prevents the other rules being applied?
[19:22] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> Not generally.
[19:23] <Laurenceb_> and HABs are allowed to drop articles by parachute
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> You can still be done for being drunk in charge of a vehicle if you're stealing it.
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> the met office would be breaking the law all the time if the rule applied to habs
[19:24] <Randomskk> CAA can grant special permission for all sorts of things though
[19:26] <jcoxon> hmmm i did not think this through - brought my flight computer + gps back to kent, - gps on hte only serial port makes it slightly tough to get debug data...
[19:27] <Randomskk> does the flight computer send data to the gps?
[19:27] <Randomskk> seems like you could just have gps tx -> avr rx; avr tx -> computer rx
[19:28] <jcoxon> Randomskk, no but its all nicely wired up so i don't really want to take it apart
[19:28] <jcoxon> usually i use my radio for debug :-p
[19:28] <Randomskk> heh
[19:28] <Randomskk> fair enough
[19:28] <jcoxon> hmmmm might have a solution :-p
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[19:45] <jcoxon> so whats this noisebridge melarky people are talking about?
[19:45] <jcoxon> they going into HAB?
[19:46] <jcoxon> (i know who noisebridge are :-)
[19:46] <russss> yeah
[19:47] <russss> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Spacebridge
[19:49] <SpeedEvil> Pity I diddn't notice the consultation - otherwise I might have made comments.
[19:49] <SpeedEvil> Exempting UAVs smaller than the average birdlife in an area.
[19:49] <russss> heh
[19:49] <jcoxon> oooo ukhas has a message link
[19:49] <jcoxon> url link sorry
[19:49] <russss> yeah I told them about ukhas :)
[19:50] <jcoxon> oh right hehe
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[20:47] <Laurenceb_> the northbridge logo is worrying
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> *noisebridge
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> I dont get that spacebridge thingy - they are planning a rockoon or just collecting lots of links :p
[21:08] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, i think they are in the planning stages right now
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[22:10] <Laurenceb_> #noisebridge seems to be about one stage down from 4chan
[22:10] <russss> heh
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> zedd: It pisses rainbows and shit glitter, get it right or gtfo.
[22:11] <russss> any sufficiently large collection of internet people is indistinguishable from 4chan
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> lol
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[23:25] <jcoxon> night all
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[00:00] --- Mon Jan 11 2010