highaltitude.log.20091229

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[13:32] <Hiena> Well, well, well....
[13:32] <Hiena> I found a damn isnteresting thing.
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[13:33] <Hiena> Guess, which is the best masking color, making a PCB films for photoresist method?
[13:34] <SpeedEvil> red
[13:35] <Hiena> Nope.
[13:36] <Hiena> The bright yellow.
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> visible and UV/IR colours are poorly correlated.
[13:39] <Hiena> Yup. It so strange. I had a one hell of trying process, and for the last effort i made a colored test sheet.
[13:40] <Hiena> Seems for the less efficient filter is the black (!) and the cyan.
[13:50] <russss> laser printed, presumably?
[13:50] <russss> I wonder if it varies depending on the manufacturer of the toner.
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[14:29] Nick change: Mike -> Guest95497
[14:29] <Guest95497> Evening, I'm intrested in doing a HAB project similar to the one on http://www.natrium42.com/halo/flight2/
[14:30] <Guest95497> Anyone point me to where i should start?
[14:32] <Guest95497> Also, is it possible for a ballon to stay at a certain altitude instead of just going as high as possible and then poping?
[14:35] <Hiena> Check the local party store for the balloon and the helium. The altitude control much tricky. Need a sophisticated ballast system.
[14:36] <Hiena> Also, before you start it, check the local flight regulations for such unmanned thing.
[14:37] <Guest95497> I'll be releasing it in the middle of the nowhere in China : P
[14:37] <Guest95497> I couldn't find local flight regulations if my life depended on it.
[14:37] <Guest95497> Thanks
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[14:40] <Hiena> Well, you still have a good chance to get a years long jail, violating the local laws. For starter, you could write a pretty mail to the local ministry of transportation. Also, the local flight clubs could help. Also they could show you the controlled airspace, which is better not to disturb.
[14:41] <Guest95497> One more question, could anyone tell me what to expect for the range of area the payload would land in?
[14:41] <Guest95497> will look into that then, hiena
[14:43] <Hiena> 10-80 miles. Depends on the wind conditions. It's not a best method smuggling drugs, spreading propaganda materials, or making suveilance.
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[15:34] <Guest95497> ty hiena
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[17:04] <jcoxon> afternoon
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[18:08] <jcoxon> hey edmoore sjrandall
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[18:18] <jcoxon> has anyone played with simavr?
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[18:22] Nick change: sjrandall -> RocketBoy
[18:24] <RocketBoy> hey jcoxon: how goes BH4?
[18:28] <jcoxon> hey RocketBoy
[18:28] <jcoxon> ummm i'm in suffolk at the moment so hven't done much
[18:28] <jcoxon> though all parts should be in london when i get back tomorrow
[18:29] <jcoxon> i think the first step will be getting the rev counter to work
[18:29] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, what do you think is better cam and switch or photogate?
[18:30] <RocketBoy> photogate
[18:30] <RocketBoy> or hall sensors
[18:33] <jcoxon> okay cool
[18:33] <jcoxon> i've got a photogate
[18:34] <RocketBoy> fb
[18:37] <RocketBoy> I have been playing with rig control - mainly using fldigi ATM
[18:37] <jcoxon> hows that going?
[18:37] <RocketBoy> its rather cool when fldigi controls the rig as well
[18:37] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:38] <RocketBoy> yeah - good
[18:38] <jcoxon> sometimes the initialisation of CAT is a bit dodgey i've found
[18:38] <RocketBoy> I have abandoned the idea of making my own GlobalTuners equivelent
[18:38] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[18:39] <edmoore> afraid i don't have any experience
[18:39] <edmoore> have just used the built in simulator in avrsuite
[18:39] <jcoxon> edmoore, no worries i've made some progress
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[18:50] Nick change: RocketBoy -> RocketBoy|Away
[18:56] <jcoxon> hmmm its perhaps too cutting edge codewise
[18:56] <edmoore> jcoxon: was just having a chat with someone
[18:56] <jcoxon> its got hte beginnings of an arduino emulator but not enough to actually use
[18:56] <edmoore> about measuring the amount of fluid in a container, despite slosh and swinging and so on
[18:56] <jcoxon> uhuh, any conclusions?
[18:57] <edmoore> well, in terms of getting an accurate and fairly staic representation of how filled it is, the ordinary kettle came to mind
[18:57] <edmoore> with the little tube that runs up the outside to show how full it is
[18:57] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:57] <edmoore> you can have a really heavy boil in the kettle itself, but the tube on the outside stays fairly still
[18:58] <edmoore> if only you could measure how high the fluid is within the tube
[18:58] <jcoxon> thats a really sensible way
[18:58] <jcoxon> as it can easily have a float etc
[18:58] <jcoxon> but it requries 'custom' tanks
[18:59] <edmoore> and infact ethanol conducts, so maybe sinstead of measuring the capacitance between two conductive strips, you coud measure the resistance - you i theory would get a nice linear relationship
[18:59] <jcoxon> i'm swaying towards 'dead reckining'
[18:59] <jcoxon> reckoning*
[18:59] <edmoore> well, it may just be that you have to stick a drinking straw into your tank
[18:59] <jcoxon> 500mls and then use perastaltic pump
[18:59] <edmoore> the only prob with dead reckoning is the drift
[18:59] <jcoxon> which dumps x per revolution and count the revolutions
[19:00] <russss> any measurement mechanism is going to have problems with sloshing
[19:00] <edmoore> your estimate of ballast and the actual ballast deviate with time/pumping. dunno if it's enough to be a problem though
[19:02] <russss> is ullage the right word? it's a good word.
[19:02] <jcoxon> edmoore, well these pumps are designed to be accurate
[19:02] <jcoxon> hence why they are used in medicine
[19:03] <jcoxon> definitely needs testing ;-p
[19:04] <jcoxon> supper time
[19:04] <jcoxon> will get back to london tomorrow and shall get to work on BH4 so will be requiring advice :-p
[19:04] <jcoxon> bbl
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[19:05] <russss> we should pack BH4 full of as many measurement systems as possible and see which one wins.
[19:08] <edmoore> agreed
[19:08] <edmoore> infact
[19:09] <russss> I was wondering if using baffles in the tank would result in a more stable measurement.
[19:09] <edmoore> well, ethanol conducts
[19:10] <edmoore> so imagine you stick a drinking straw in with a loop of nichrome wire down one side and back up the other
[19:10] <edmoore> the ethanol would sort of short to nichrom loop
[19:10] <edmoore> and the resistance would depend on how much of the straw was submerged
[19:11] <edmoore> now that doesn't account of sloshing and swinging
[19:11] <russss> true. A bit like the level indicator on a kettle.
[19:11] <edmoore> but if you put three such straws on the edge of the ballast tank, and 120 degrees apart, and connect them in series, the sum of the resistance should still add up
[19:12] <edmoore> as slosh just means one straw would be more shorted and one less shorted. this is of course all rather approximate
[19:12] <edmoore> so you could have the ballast tank at different angles and it should still even out. 3 is just the mimimum, the more the better
[19:13] <edmoore> infact maybe just a spiral of nichrome wire lining the tank would do it
[19:13] <edmoore> hrm
[19:13] <russss> interesting
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[19:20] <Xenion> Guten Abend / Hello everyone :-)
[19:45] <natrium_> was geht ab?
[19:48] Nick change: RocketBoy|Away -> RocketBoy
[19:51] <natrium_> hi RocketBoy
[19:52] <RocketBoy> hi natrium_
[19:53] <RocketBoy> hows things?
[19:53] <natrium_> good, was baking PCBs yesterday until 4:30 am
[19:53] <natrium_> how are you?
[19:54] <RocketBoy> fine - taking it easy after Xmas - I have a couple of weeks off work - I go back on the 11th
[19:55] <RocketBoy> PCBs anything interesting?
[19:56] <natrium_> oh, it's just a USB motor controller with hall effect sensor for position sensing
[19:56] <RocketBoy> I have been spending my time getting ubuntu up and running on an old tower PC
[19:56] <natrium_> for a file server?
[19:57] <RocketBoy> sort of the - idea is a flgigi server that I can use remotely
[19:57] <RocketBoy> fldigi
[19:58] <natrium_> aah
[19:58] <natrium_> how are you planning to stream the audio?
[19:59] <RocketBoy> I have an old IC-R7000 receiver - which is going to be controlled by fldigi
[20:00] <RocketBoy> it also has a 10.7MHz IF output - which I'm going to feed into a SDR-IQ box
[20:01] <RocketBoy> and put the waterfall from that on the web - if all goes well
[20:01] <RocketBoy> so the SDR window can be tuned up/down
[20:02] <natrium_> i see, cool
[20:02] <RocketBoy> I was going to use shout-cast for the audio - but I have sort by-passed that idea by going to a combined rig and fldigi setup
[20:03] <RocketBoy> I'm thinking of using Xwindows for remote operation
[20:03] <RocketBoy> or similar
[20:05] <RocketBoy> bbl
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[20:58] <Laurenceb> hi
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[21:02] <SpeedEvil> hi
[21:04] Action: Laurenceb has a laser mouse
[21:05] <Laurenceb> freaking mice with freaking lasers
[21:06] <Laurenceb> definitely better than led on smooth surfaces - pity its an IR laser
[21:08] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps/radmonth.php?en=&europe= does have variance data, but only for whole day irradiation
[21:08] <Laurenceb> it seems anyway - its kind of hard to follow as the interface is such a confusing mess
[21:09] <Laurenceb> it seems to be mainly intended for PV, not water heating
[21:13] <Laurenceb> the shading seems to work very well, seems to use space shuttle radar data for the DEM, but I dont quite seem how they accumulated all the data - they appear to have flux vectors for the irradiation
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> srtm was only topogtaphjy
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> 90m grid outside the us
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> below 45 degree lat/lon or something
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[21:42] <natrium_> pwned
[21:42] <jcoxon> damn :-p
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[21:47] <jcoxon> yay
[21:47] <jcoxon> edmoore, just reading the logs and your resistance idea
[21:48] <jcoxon> seems good
[21:50] <edmoore> might be worth throwing something together
[21:51] <jcoxon> definitely a test rig of some sort
[21:52] <jcoxon> so using an adc we make a voltage divider with one of the resistors being the ethanol?
[21:59] <Laurenceb> resistors?
[22:00] <Laurenceb> several at different heights in the tank?
[22:00] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, edmoore was thinking that as ethanol conducts that we could measure resistance to sense volume
[22:02] <jcoxon> oh wow spudnik 2 was launched in november - must of missed that
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[22:43] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: interesting ide, but it will be temperature dependant
[22:43] <Laurenceb> AC may help
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[22:52] <Laurenceb> in my experience electrolytes are quite a bit off from ideal resistors
[22:52] <Laurenceb> but using AC will help a lot
[22:53] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: spudnik2 ?
[22:53] <Laurenceb> an n-prize thingy?
[22:54] <jcoxon> http://www.spudnik1.co.uk/
[22:54] <jcoxon> a launch down in devon
[22:55] <Laurenceb> oh yeah I remember
[22:56] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: I prefer the magnet pump idea but resistance might be worth a try
[22:56] <Laurenceb> difficult to test the temperature effects tho
[22:56] <jcoxon> true
[22:58] <Laurenceb> certainly worth trying it
[22:59] <Laurenceb> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8429233.stm
[22:59] <Laurenceb> Randomskk has been busy it seems
[23:01] <edmoore> he doesn't look like that
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> I'm really unsure what teh above proves.
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[23:03] <SpeedEvil> It was well known, and publishing the rainbow tables...
[23:04] <Laurenceb> I was joking about it being Randomskk
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> IIRC the code was intentionally weakened back in the day by governmental action.
[23:05] <russss> it doesn't prove much beyond which already existed
[23:05] <russss> the fact that the GSM people are getting so uppity about it proves something though
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[23:08] <SpeedEvil> yes - that they have an enormous amount of hardware, all of which needs replaced
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure if the same algorightm covers 3g
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[23:18] <Laurenceb> does it really matter with IP ?
[23:18] <Laurenceb> you can add as much of your own encription over the top if you want
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> Well - not so much that.
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> Boice calls
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> V
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[00:00] --- Wed Dec 30 2009