highaltitude.log.20091228

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[09:41] <Hiena> ' morning!
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[15:52] <Laurenceb> http://xkcd.com/681_large/
[15:54] Action: SpeedEvil has been testing his new FM transmitter.
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> Sucks.
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> ~3m range.
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> (n900)
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> and the datasheet of the chip is closed.
[15:56] <Laurenceb> what level of acess do you have ?
[15:56] <Laurenceb> as in - how much is handled by firmware
[15:57] <Laurenceb> any opportunity for sending it anything to control the modulation
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> you have full control over the tx chip
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> well - you may need to frob the driver
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[15:58] <SpeedEvil> but the chip is probably limited
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[16:27] <rjharrison_> hi edmoore
[16:27] tatters (n=tntuba@S01060019db7f2bd1.wp.shawcable.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:27] <edmoore> hi rjharrison_
[16:28] <edmoore> how're thing?
[16:28] <edmoore> s
[16:28] <rjharrison_> Cool
[16:28] <rjharrison_> Moving house still
[16:28] <rjharrison_> Just taking five whist in the study to see whats going on
[16:28] <rjharrison_> Any launches planned?
[16:28] <rjharrison_> Not sure what the wx is doing atm
[16:28] <edmoore> useless
[16:29] <edmoore> am totally on holiday atm, not thiking about hab at all until new year
[16:29] <rjharrison_> that's good in a way as there is not a hope in hell's chance of getting a pass for a day out
[16:29] <rjharrison_> I'm looking forward to testing my location for listening
[16:29] <rjharrison_> I'm going to be traring up the listener code too soon
[16:30] <rjharrison_> tarting
[16:30] <edmoore> cool
[16:31] <edmoore> you heard about the lastpos.php issue we had last flight?
[16:31] <edmoore> during xaben and icarus
[16:31] <rjharrison_> YEP
[16:32] <rjharrison_> I'll fix that with lastpoas.php?payload=icarus
[16:32] <edmoore> cool
[16:32] <rjharrison_> You use that for the autotracking
[16:32] <rjharrison_> ?
[16:32] <edmoore> yep
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[16:34] <rjharrison_> only two more boxes for the study tonight
[16:34] <edmoore> hi tatters_99
[16:35] <edmoore> rjharrison_: how is the move going generally?
[16:36] <rjharrison_> Well the house is a total bonb site but the study is looking good
[16:36] <rjharrison_> Priorities
[16:36] <rjharrison_> :)
[16:37] <rjharrison_> I have radio set up with the tri band on the roof
[16:37] <rjharrison_> I have knoced up a pole for the 70cm's yagi for tracking
[16:38] <rjharrison_> that goes out through the skylight
[16:38] <edmoore> lol
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[17:25] <jcoxon> evening all
[17:27] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[17:35] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[17:37] Action: jcoxon is having fun with C
[17:51] <rjharrison_> Hey jcoxon
[17:51] <rjharrison_> Your using a real programming language :)
[17:52] <jcoxon> i hate C
[17:52] <rjharrison_> :-)
[17:53] <jcoxon> nah for small programs with maths its just fine
[17:53] <rjharrison_> Yep
[17:53] <edmoore> what are you programming?
[17:53] <jcoxon> i'm working out better ways to code various BH4 functions such as ascent rate
[17:53] <edmoore> jcoxon: FIR filter
[17:53] <rjharrison_> But you have to be carefull with memeory in C
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> Mr static is your friend.
[17:54] <rjharrison_> hehe
[17:54] <edmoore> don't bother with the wikipedia article, it's crap. It's the basic digital low pass filter
[17:54] <jcoxon> was about to say
[17:54] <rjharrison_> I'm looking forward to launching something in the new year
[17:54] <jcoxon> makes no sense at all
[17:55] <rjharrison_> Is anyone else up for playing soon
[17:55] <jcoxon> i plan to launch BH4 in the next month
[17:55] <edmoore> jcoxon: http://www.dspguide.com/pdfbook.htm
[17:56] <jcoxon> edmoore, what would i be using this for?
[17:56] <edmoore> actually that book is a bit heavy too (but it's bloody excellent for learning about digital signal processing - probably the best book I've come across for teaching yourself)
[17:57] <edmoore> FIR filters
[17:57] <jcoxon> got that its discussing FIR filters
[17:57] <jcoxon> but for which function? float detection?
[17:57] <edmoore> it's basically just a weighted average for the last N readings. You pick your weightings to give you the filter response you want, i.e. you could filter out anything happening faster than about once per minute, which may stop it being confused by oscillations
[17:58] <edmoore> jcoxon: calculation of ascent rate
[17:58] <edmoore> yep, float detection
[17:58] <jcoxon> the question is though - were the oscillations float?
[17:59] <edmoore> Don't ask me, I just work here.
[17:59] <rjharrison_> lol
[17:59] <jcoxon> the BH2 flight works very well with +1 and -1 parameters
[17:59] <jcoxon> BH3 eventually falls into the same catagory though after a bit of oscillation
[18:01] <rjharrison_> supper calls
[18:01] <rjharrison_> chat later
[18:03] <jcoxon> cya
[18:05] <jcoxon> guess the key is really to not care - we need to test ballast tanks not test float detection code
[18:09] <russss> needs more uplink :P
[18:11] <russss> I've been fiddling with graphing the telemetry in a useful way. But I've been getting a bit distracted by Eve Online :/
[18:11] <jcoxon> russss, hah
[18:11] <jcoxon> a
[18:11] <russss> I have got precious little coding done this holiday.
[18:11] <jcoxon> well please do keep us updated on graphing - always looks cool
[18:12] <jcoxon> hmmmm uplink just ain't going to happen
[18:13] <jcoxon> i'm thinking we should changes the parameters a bit - give the float detection a longer period of time before it goes back to nofloat
[18:13] <SpeedEvil> I don't think you care about little floats.
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> Dump if curheight-maxheight>1000
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> for 100 seconds
[18:14] <russss> yeah
[18:14] <russss> well
[18:14] <russss> that's ok for the real thing
[18:15] <russss> but clearly not for a test flight :P
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> ah :)
[18:15] <jcoxon> so what we want from the flight is signs that the ballast drop takes place
[18:15] <jcoxon> and that its measured accurately
[18:16] <russss> jcoxon: I wonder if it's just worth doing on the way up? Launch with heavier than normal ballast then do one dump at a comparatively low altitude
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> just a 1m/s ascent, then dump ?
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> dump several times at 20 min intervals
[18:16] <russss> yeah, and then just do it at time intervals
[18:17] <jcoxon> the compare the ascentrate graph to the flightcomputers dumping status
[18:17] <jcoxon> then*
[18:17] <russss> but I think the main thing that BH3 showed was that the ballast level sensor is still a bit tempremental
[18:18] <jcoxon> though if the payload was floating the change would be a lot easier to see
[18:18] <jcoxon> russss, design change - instead using a peristaltic pump and a rev counter
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[18:18] <jcoxon> we can easily calculate how much ballast has been dumped
[18:18] <russss> ah, fair enough
[18:18] <russss> yeah that sounds sensible
[18:18] <jcoxon> but yes - BH3 showed that hte current design just didn't work
[18:19] <natrium42> hi
[18:19] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[18:19] <jcoxon> natrium42, will stick the module in the post, i stole the 2nd for the backup beacon for BH4 - so you'll only get one :-p
[18:19] <jcoxon> radiometrix module that is
[18:19] <natrium42> kk, let me know how much i owe you
[18:28] <jcoxon> right bbl
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[18:59] <Laurenceb> jcoxon
[18:59] <Laurenceb> bah hes left
[19:00] <Laurenceb> the good thing is we have lots of data, but yeah distinguishing gravity waves from apogee is tricky
[19:00] <Laurenceb> thing is a zero pressure should have an apogee point like a vented latex
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[19:20] <russss> well, surely for the real thing you can just trigger ballast release at maxheight - a couple of km
[19:20] <russss> for the test it doesn't really matter what you do as long as it's reliably triggered (launch + 1hr?)
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[20:09] <rjharrison_> Hey RocketBoy
[20:24] <Laurenceb> yeah, gravity waves are a few hundered m max
[20:27] <Hiena> Grrroooaaan....
[20:28] <Hiena> I1m getting tired with the photoresist.
[20:28] <Hiena> Simply i can't make lines under 20 mil.
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[20:29] <Laurenceb> or average the altitude over a brunt-vaisala period
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[20:30] <Laurenceb> that should filter gravity waves out - accept the freuqency isnt that consistent
[20:35] <Laurenceb> http://www.shodor.org/os411/courses/_master/tools/calculators/brunt/index.html
[20:40] <Laurenceb> need about 5 minutes of averaging
[20:43] <Laurenceb> well - to get a few periods, that way it wont mind the frequency changing a bit
[21:09] <RocketBoy> rjharrison_: Hey hey
[21:10] <RocketBoy> just re-aranging the shack here - put in a new shelf for the IC-R7000
[21:12] <RocketBoy> have fl-digi running under ubuntu with rig control switched on - what a difference
[21:12] <Laurenceb> its pretty cool stuff
[21:13] <Laurenceb> RocketBoy: I'm working on using a CC1020 eval board as a 70cm band scanner
[21:13] <Laurenceb> in receive mode it does direct downconversion, and theres a couple of registers you can probe to extract the baseband
[21:13] <Laurenceb> havent actually go it running with that hardware yet tho
[21:13] <RocketBoy> yeah - i saw your musings a few days ago - i looked at the spec sheet - looks pretty cool
[21:14] <Laurenceb> the tricky bit is getting the data out fast enough
[21:14] <Laurenceb> but it should be possible with just an AVR and usb to uart
[21:14] <RocketBoy> yeah - it didn't look a simple job
[21:15] <Laurenceb> mouser have the eval kit at £100
[21:16] <RocketBoy> that's for a pair?
[21:17] <Laurenceb> yeah and some ants and whatnot
[21:17] <RocketBoy> not bad
[21:17] <Laurenceb> I guess, if your prepared to pay a premium for easy to use boards
[21:18] <RocketBoy> oh - sure - eval boards a way of getting going quickly
[21:19] <RocketBoy> I wonder what X windows would be like over a 750kbps link - anyone done that?
[21:19] <Laurenceb> another nice feature - you can frequency lock the receiving one to the transmitter
[21:25] <n900evil> rock: tries it xmas day
[21:26] <n900evil> ssh'd from phone to laptop back at home with X forwarding
[21:26] <n900evil> worked - a bit slow obviosly
[21:26] <RocketBoy> was it OK?
[21:27] <n900evil> for non game - yes
[21:27] <RocketBoy> ah OK - just thinking I may use fldigi that way
[21:27] <n900evil> with no video of course
[21:28] <n900evil> waterfall may or may not be a problem
[21:28] <RocketBoy> yeah - about 50kbps of background data by my reckoning
[21:30] <Laurenceb> I've used it a bit, but on faster broadband connection
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[21:30] <Laurenceb> latency was what really annoyed me
[21:31] <RocketBoy> anyone fancy giving it a go now?
[21:32] <Laurenceb> I dont have anything to connect to
[21:32] <n900evil> dxpc would help but it'sbeen ages
[21:35] <RocketBoy> dxpc - cool
[21:35] <n900evil> I would try it, but I'd have to get out of bed.
[21:38] <RocketBoy> np - i'm thinking of loading a windows Xserver on the PC anyway
[21:39] <n900evil> vnc works too
[21:40] <RocketBoy> got to get some ethernet and USB extender cables to finish off the job before I can use it in anger
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[00:00] --- Tue Dec 29 2009